Is Kill Team Dead?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Turning Point Tactics Warhammer 40000 Kill Team Podcast!
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Is Kill Team Dead?..... Not even 4 months after a giant edition release. Great, can't wait for this to be regurgitated every other week
It's a question my opinion is at 14:43, I raised the topic as in the various group chats I have the jokes have already started and memes in full flow hence the decision to address it in a video
Gw doesn't release new editions because the game is doing well. They release one when sales are drying up from the old edition and they need to renew interest in the game. 10th edition was super unnecessary as was AoS 4th. Gw do it on a 3 year cycle because that's how long they can keep editions fresh for
My tinfoil hat theory: GW needs the physical datacard sales to hit a certain marker before they drop the dataslate so they can sell new updated ones.
This is so evil it might actually be true... Just sell the damn tokens separately damn it!
haha maybe!
As far as tournaments go I have ZERO desire to attend one until that dataslate. Casual play is alive and well, unless someone who knows what they're doing and they bring Warp Coven or Legionaries.
Today is the day! Dataslate has arrived so hopefully that’s reignited your tournament desires! Looks like the biggest problems have been hit hard, guess we’ll see if it’s enough
i think one thing to keep in mind with all this is that nothing is actually late. they said a few months in November, we're not there yet, its not been ~5 months
Maybe I'm just too impatient for a dataslate xD
@turningpointtactics6177 honestly, I feel like you guys forget that LOADS of people play maybe one game a week. It's my main game, but I've still only played ~20 times in this edition. There's no one in my city of 7 million people who plays Warp Coven competently. I know the balance is a problem, but it's not a problem that we're sick of the way you guys are. I may, possibly, get a full-Khorne Legionary team painted before the Balance Dataslate, but i wouldn't bet on it! 😎
Great video mate. Keep up the honest commentary and high quality videos.
Thanks, will do!
I think classified/declassified is a big part of new players not taking up the game. Especially for people that don't play 40k or any other miniature game but want to try it knowing that your £50 and all your time and effort painting and learning is going to go to waste within a year or you pick a team your less excited for and get 3 years but you're still being forced to change eventually is a big red flag for new players.
Especially when they could have a different hobby that never gets taken away
Yeah that’s a good point, I think if you pick up a new team you’re probably okay as you have 3 years, but if say you really like Phobos, but you know you only have 1 year to play them it might put you off
I still think that the average person who's not played these types of games is going to be put off having a lifespan put on there minis/fun as an initial barrier even at 3 years. once they're in yeah it's not too bad most people will probably want to try a different team but the first step seems harder now.
Exactly if you vibe more with Phobos or corsairs you're out of luck and have to play something else, or you're waiting for a new team to come out that you gel with more.
Personally I hope they get rid of the classified list and man up on the balancing more teams.
if MTG can have commander an eternal format with 27,000 unique cards and be the most popular format with a thriving growing competitive scene .
killteam can balance more teams for competitive
I thought the title was full of chit, but then I was like wait, usually the next killteam box is announced before the last one comes out and we haven’t had even a teaser of what the next box will be and Brutal and Cunning came out a while ago it feels like
I think the focus has been on 40k for a while, hopefully we get some love soon
definitely not dead. There's a ton of releases coming for AoS, OW, and 40K right now, so announcing more Kill Team stuff would likely get in the way of those. I would guess a dataslate would come once they reveal the next thing, which is most likely soon-ish. I can understand waiting to release a dataslate considering we're still in the early times of the new edition. I will optimistically guess that they're taking a "wait and see" approach, at least for now. Clearly elites are too good right now and hopefully that gets dealt with, but there's no reason to be impatient, at least yet. They gave us a multiple year roadmap built into the team legality rules, so it's clear that they intend to support the game for at least that long. Keep in mind the release timings were also weird last year. We had seen the Nemesis claw SUPER EARLY, and then Hivestorm didn't have nearly as much wait after release.
Some really good points, I think you’re right and Warhammer Community has been nonstop with other releases recently
I think your points are all good, but in our area, were still seeing growth. We just had the largest tournemnt in Canada on record 2 weeks ago, we had an event this weekend for new players and saw all the tables full and store shelves emptied as new players snapped up some teams. We do mix things up, we have a league, but its narrative not competative, using the hivestorm and B&C story missions for example. Themed game nights like a hoard team only night, there is usually a co-op game going off each week sometimes a 3 player game with a player taking over the AI in co op. We have as a comunity made effort to explore all aspects of the game rather than just focus on the competative aspect of the game with approved ops games. Everyone is welcome to play how they like, but there is certainly more to it than approved ops, which youtube atleast seem to just focus on.
Which province was the tournament in?
@@forumtroll117 torchlight games in Burlington Ontario
That's epic to hear! and in the UK we're continuing to see increased ticket sales at tournaments
@@forumtroll117 Ontario @ TorchLight Hobbies in Burlington
I’ve also heard a rumor that a Canadian player just won #1 ITC, Canada is popping off!
Part of the balance problem feels like that elites also just have a really high skill floor. So at the lower levels elites will do well where elf teams will struggle even if they are really good at the top end. So you'll have elites stomp people at every level. Where if really complex teams with low skill floors but crazy high ceilings were dominating at least at the local levels you wouldn't feel the problem.
Yeah, I think this was the case last edition, the strongest teams were the hardest to play. The game has definitely been simplified which I agree with, so hopefully they can tone down the problems and we'll get back to that kind of balance
Great video, Ryan. Moving to a six month cycle for balance data slates would be awful for the game, so I’m very much hoping that the current situation is something odd to do with the launch of the edition, such as that first set errata being treated as a balance dataslate by a corporate mandate that games don’t get more than one per quarter.
Completely agree Tom, I'm hoping for good news this week
I'm sure is gonna be allright
I'd love to see the balance slate sorted in February ideally. I love my Hernkyn Jaegirs but playing into Legionaires/Angels of Death is just plain miserable. And I haven't even tried my Vespid yet (nearly finished painting em) and I'm dreading games with them lol.
I'm really hoping for something this week, I think you've got 1st hand experience of some of those bad matchups which can get frustrating
F in chat for Kill Team!
Hopefully not just yet!
I recently snagged a Kasrkin team just before seeing they got an updated ruleset which kinda sucked. But i am trying to get my buddy to make a Mechanicus team soon so we might start playing soon enough.
Luckily the models and the lore is awesome! So you can definitely have great fun with casual games, and I'm sure a Dataslate will be here soon
26:30 agreed. this is not a card game to be hiding banlist days
I think it'd be super helpful for everyone
They're not moving to a 6 month cycle, a new edition just launched and they very likely didn't want to be too hasty in making changes. The info released in Q4 2024 was really an FAQ but GW called it a "dataslate" so we're still on the quarterly cycle and the most likely outcome is we see changes in March. People didn't like what was released in Q4 so they're pretending we didn't get a dataslate but GW very clearly called it one.
good point
Cope more xD
Great point, I'm never too sure on the articles as to what is fact or not, we know there have been errors previously (everyone is human). Quarterly cycle would suggest end of January for a dataslate then next in April, guess we'll see!
I'd absolutely love to see something for end of January or even early Feb though it would make sense to align with the quarters of the year as that's what they've done in the past. Increased frequency of FAQs and specific timelines for dataslates is the dream though.
My problem is that FAQ didn't help the balance at all. We are 3.5 months into a new edition that created some problems (to be expected) but there's been no word on fixing even the most egregious problems. In reality, that FAQ actually made things worse. it gutted some teams like Breachers who were already struggling by cutting an operative (because GW forgot how many a box could build) without any form of compensation. Folks coped by saying "it's an FAQ, the fix will be coming shortly in the actual balance dataslate..."
The game balance is utterly broken. To not have addressed it before a tournament the size of LVO is a flat out failure regardless of the reasons why.
Kill Team isn't dead by any means, but it's being carried by the fumes of hope and cope right now.
We’re all licking our lips waiting for that dataslate, but like you, my local club has seen massive growth in the last several weeks (especially during LVO, as new players monitored those of us lucky to attend).
That’s awesome to hear! Hopefully it continues to grow and you can get even more players to LVO next year
No, I don't believe it is.
I agree! Just desperate for a dataslate
Only listened to about half of the vid not scripted just ramblin on started to repeat yourself.
Interesting topic especially after what we saw at LVO. Just need to get your thoughts down so you don't say the same thing over and over.
Cheers
GLT
Thanks for the feedback
1, what a lame click bait title...
2, since the mother company abandoned the game, the Community needs to take action, just like in KT 2018, when GW promised, ON CAMERA, to support sub faction rules of ALL killteams, and dropped in like hot garbage in following week. Key Opinion Leaders of the game back in the day got on the case and released extremely well put together sub-faction rules for the deamons, Sister of Battle, Gellerpox and the likes. The community has out performed GW more than once now, I cant see the reason why it should not happen again.
3, if it should not happen again, in your opinion, then tell us how should we PRESSURE GW to actually do its job what we paid them for?
1. Not intended, it's just a conversation/joke in the circles I'm in
2. My only hesitation with community rules is it can be difficult to align them outside of local leagues (unless all the TOs can link up and agree)
3. I think broadly we need to show GW that KillTeam is an important community and deserves as much respect as their other larger systems. Sadly outside of sales values that's hard to do. I think content creators can try and steer conversations and raise discussions but I'm unsure if there's actually any real levers to pull
Don’t call my man, Ryan (or his title to the video) lame! I found the title engaging and relevant!
Literally responding to the title and just the title like the ideal youtube commenter lol (I"M SORRY, I HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO WATCH THE WHOLE THING YET BUT WILL)--
That said, I saw the title and immediately felt like I should share my experience.
I love Kill Team. Cannot wait to play Kill Team. Had a painted up team of Genestealers. And so have not had the chance to assemble a new team and play Kill Team yet.
There's a non zero percentage of players who have just not had the chance to sit down and hobby together the new team/gubbins for a third edition playable team yet and I suspect a lot of folks (at least if other communities are like the one I'm in) are in that boat. So fear not, Kill Team is not dead, it's just reloading lol.
Warhammer takes a long, LONG ASS time to prepare for and get into. Like months to a year. So it's way too early to really get a feel for how things are going.
You're absolutely right, and we've seen more and more players coming to events, so it's definitely still positive. It's a bit of a ramble but the overall answer to the question in my opinion is no, kill team isn't dead, but it needs a dataslate.
Betteridge's Law tells you everything you need to know about headlines like that - no need to answer.
@@turningpointtactics6177 I have now watched it lol--definitely agree. I think getting through LVO without a dataslate and without a look at the next team was pretty deflating for Kill Team players. I'd hope we aren't waiting until spring to get an update cause while there are a lot of improvements in this set... kinda stinks that if you're not one of the big team players or, really an elites player generally, you're just shit out of luck if you get a bad match up.
@@dan_hahn yeah, luckily we know the design team are engaged with the community and love the game, so I have no doubt it will be solved I just selfishly want it sooner than later
2 or 3 of the elite teams are too good, but I hope we don't go the other way and make all of them bad. I like them and their play style. I found them unfun last edition, and think counteracts are a good addition . Maybe the astartes counteract is too good. Idk I'm just a scrub.
I'm with you! I want all the teams to remain fun and viable, we definitely don't want them to be nerfed out of the game
i haven't played since NYO :'( it hasn't been fun for me
I doubt you're alone but I'm hopeful that we'll get some good changes and bring more teams into the rotation
Communities should be more open to modifying the game when GW fails to do so. I used to play WFB in editions 5-7and WH40K in editions 3-8, and community initiatives comp systems and balancing patches were a normal thing, frequently changing an unplayable edition into one of the best balanced ones.
It definitely used to happen in the previous editions of Kill Team but I'm hopeful that it won't be needed. We've got such a massive growing community atm it'd be really cool of we can all still be playing the same game. I think it looks like 4 months is about the tolerance level though and we've seen what you've described happen at LVO
Would love to paint more teams for the events mate
That's be awesome dude! Make sure you have enough time to get your teams done as well though, next TPT event will be June which should be good :)
Infrequent big changes, is better than frequent small changes, in the super-complicated rules gotcha edition. KT has more rules than my 40K armies. It’s no longer a skirmish game, when each match takes 2-3+ hours. This is the dip we’re in, where some teams interact with the base rules better than others. A slight nerf could send a team to the bottom.
Let’s balance things and speed things up. Remove the worst two stratagems per team. Remove pre-measure. Remove counteract. Max reroll one single dice. Max dice conversion is one dice. Game balanced.
I think a 3 month schedule is pretty good for kill team, maybe a 4 month cycle could work as well.
Great video and well made points Ryan
Thanks dude! Glad you enjoyed
You must feel really dumb with the balance update published today.
I'm really happy to see a dataslate, that's broadly what my point was in the video :)
It’s been dead in my area due to the lack of balance
Fingers crossed dataslate comes soon! then you can get all your group together and gaming again
I'm just about to finish painting my first kill team, Fellgore (bought 1 year+ after they were released. as soon as I found out beastmen were in 40K I had to buy in). I hope kill team doesn't die... That's my luck though. I join Games Workshop games as they die (WHFB)
Actually, I think you've joined at a good time, the title is a question, the answer (in my opinion) is no it's not dead, I'm sure your Fellgore will be loads of fun at tournaments! get stuck in :)
I think a lack of the compendium teams not being available for factions that were effectively squatted in 3.0 has contributed to the current vibe of KT along with the missing announcment of the next big box and waiting for the dataslate
That's a really good point that I hadn't considered!
No issues at all in our local community regarding the dropping of Compendium teams. There are over 30 kill teams to choose from.
People were worried about teams that age out of being "Classified" not getting as much attention/support. GW has solved this by just neglecting every team I suppose. Even if the Dataslate dropped tomorrow, ~30% of the official tournament lifespan of half the teams has been spent in an entirely busted meta.
Haha I guess that’s one way to look at it, hopefully we get that dataslate soon so the remaining 70% is good
Clickbait title is gross
Sorry if that's how it came across, was addressing the general chatter in the various kill team circles I'm in
Just follow Betteridge's Law and don't click