I'm Conflicted on SALTBURN
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Twitter: / thefilmdrunk
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emerald fennell back okay
saltburn movie review okay
saltburn ending explained? nah no spoilers mate
barry keoghan wow
jacob elordi wow
rosamund pike wow
alison oliver wow
Oliver was supposed to be a master manipulator. From such a character, I’d expect a verbal wizard and negotiation mastermind. Instead, Oliver was virtually a mute and lacked all charisma, yet he wielded massive social influence and eventually broke the fierce matriarch into handing over her entire estate. Absurd. With great feats must come great persuasion, but that was woefully missing here
Well, imo he kind of is, but in a different and more subtle way that one expects.
You see, most of the time he makes the Cattons do the work for him, he allows them to project on him whatever idea they have in their head (of how unlucky he is, of how charitable they are...) with only little encouragement. Because they don't really care about their series of protejees.
The only moment this act slips is with Venicia (in the vampire scene) and Farleigh (in all of his scenes). Farleigh sees right through Oliver's bullshite, so imo he deems it useless to pretend. While with Venicia honestly idk why. Maybe he assumed she was the weakest link? Idk.
The movie is good imo but not a masterpiece and some holes are to be expected.
And as you say, I didn't quite get how he convinced Elspeth on leaving him Saltburn, but I assumed it was because
A. she is just not the same woman we knew bc of all the deaths,
B. she always had a fascination for Oliver (he's pretty, he's willing to chat about trivial matters in difficult times as she is, like in the funeral scene and the lunch scene, and he lets her project upon him).
This is just my (probably biased) opinion tho
They had me for the first two acts with all the mystery, twists, and intrigue. Then they went easy mode with the ending. That disappointed me.
I agree. That ending was way to predictable and kind of lazy.
Fair enough
@@s.w.d4010I think the problem was more the delivery of the ending rather than what happened. They were too obvious with all the flashbacks rather than leaving it even the slightest bit ambiguous
@tomharbinson4442 i think an ending in which only the butler finds out what actually happen but have no proof of it, being forced to work for Oliver forever is an interesting ending, not a revolutionary ending but good and dark still. The part where Oliver was fake writing on the laptop was kinda funny and so unserious, idk how that made the final cut.
@@atuvera9021it's set in 2007 so I don't think the staff are slaves, like they probably have W-2's, so the butler would have probably just gone to the police
i think oliver has more motivation than viewers are giving him credit for. to me, he goes into oxford which is one of the most famous schools in the world on scholarship bc of how smart he is but immediatley when he gets there and seeing all the ultra rich he realizes a) his hard work has gotten him there but hes still an outsider because hes not part of the ultra wealthy and b) to be truly successful he needs the combination of his brains but also social connections and desirability which is most easily translated through WEALTH! he immediately sees himself as more deserving of Felix's life when he did all the work to get there when Felix was just born lucky (his name literally means luck) and of course gets to go to oxford and money is no issue. theres also this interesting aspect of oliver lying about being an only child. while i dont think that he lied about that to emphasize him being pitiable or poor, i think he did this to include his own fantasy in his lie of him always wanting to be an only child (he mentions this when they actually go visit that he had always wanted to be an only child). he wants to be the only one, he wants to have it all. i think this is also a big part of why he ends up killing Felix but i dont have the brain power to go into it right now lol i need to rewatch this movie!!
Very good analysis! I think people fixate too much on Oilver's individual motivations rather than looking at the larger context he finds himself in that informs his greedy nature and the actions he takes to acheive his goal. Also, I think it's very purposeful to have his motivations seem unclear throughout the film. That's kind of the point. You can't write a deceptive character very well if the audience isn't deceived or surprised by his actions
It’s actually a good warning about the “striver” types who currently run our societies managerial system. Along with embittered academic types who are frustrated that people “less clever” than they are make double / triple their salaries.
i agree with almost everything the critics are saying and i could write multiple essays about what went wrong with this movie but something about it charmed me so much i can’t hate it 😭 also thank you for highlighting alison oliver’s performance i thought she was incredible and i’m not hearing nearly enough praise for her!!!
Thank you for your reference to Alison Oliver. She is a wonderful young actress.
i think a performance no one is talking abt that i rlly loved was Archie Madekwe as Farleigh. For me his presence was a scene stealer and thought he did really good especially in that lunch scene if yk what im talking abt
he was doing way too much
@@yawner1154 thats what is great about it, i think the point of Farleigh was to be an over the top sort of antagonist. It was highlighted in the karaoke scene. Hes over the top for the hell of it and I love it, it just mades scenes with him so much fun
YES! Billy Zane in Dead Calm vibes. If you know, you know.
A few have talked about him
@@randywhite3947 at the time of the comment no one didnt
I hope this gets nominated for best cinematography though. It looks so nice…
Although I fully understand the flaws you addressed (and agree with most) I’m kind of of the opinion that Oliver doesn’t need any crazy deep motivation. He’s just a really disturbed individual that can’t help himself from wanting what others have and I find that kind of refreshing??
No dark backstory or reasoning which kind of makes him more fascinating to me! Beautifully done movie and I would recommend it to so many!
when Felix's death was revealed I immediately thought that Olliver killed him, then I reasoned and ruled that out because "that's way too predictable". Not to mention, when it started peeling back the event of the B-day party, it totally felt like what they did in Knives Out.
I predicted Felix's death as soon as he was alone with Ollie in the maze. I thought Ollie was gonna hit him with the bottle. But I figured he probably poisoned him. It reminded me of the minotaur monster killing the people lost in the maze in greek mythology. If you rewatch the maze scene, you can see the statue of the minotaur in the center of the maze. Those small details gave it away for me. But I was still curious to see if he was going to kill the rest of them. I was skeptical but I knew as soon as he pointed the blame on Farleigh and they kicked him out. It was too scapegoaty for me and like he was projecting.
this was something in the writing, it took a turn too far, there is a definite change in tone that feels like its going from bonkers house to a contrived script.
Babylon did not work for me at all; Salburn does. Psychopaths don't really need a motivation for their action but here, I do think there is one - just simply greed, vengeful, and wanting to cause chaos.
I agree, I think that his motivations were clear and simple. I liked that there was some vagueness in his character, it made him unpredictable
yea I agree I think the issue is just that the characters don’t have a load of depth, esp outside of Oliver which leaves us as audience members searching for more
complete opposite love Babylon hate saltburn
@@zphraimwhy do you hate it?
@@randywhite3947 just didn’t carry me fully along I think the opening was solid along with its end but the middle was just really flimsy and felt like filler and disconnected with its ending, especially considering how much of a ‘turn’ it took
That script was.... bad, unfortunately. The directing and cinematography was gorgeous though. Great work from Pike and Elordi as well!
Even before the bathroom scene, Oliver was giving creepy vibes when he was watching Felix have sex through the window in college. Looking back, his jealousy got masked by admiration.
the shocking scenes WORKED imo. the contrast of his innoncent character slowly changing was done so well
I agree with you mostly. I sometimes felt the movie was trying to be too artistic with its cinematography and they focused on that more than the plot. I would have liked some scenes to feel more gritty and look more realistic instead of just too beautiful all the time. I also felt that some of the scenes were too weird and gross and so were uncomfortable to watch, especially in the cinema with my family. 2/5 for me.
In an era of b-movies, blockbusters and franchise sagas Saltburn is that masterpiece we didn’t know we needed. The plot and development reminded me of Parasite, the final scene a tribute to Boogie Nights. E. Fennell utilised Keoghan’s unique acting features like Lanthimos did. The film displays the harshness and utter violence the average multiplex goer wouldn’t expect - and yet it made it to the wide distribution.
This for me is the film of the year.
2:08 OMFG!!! You pronounced his name CORRECTLY!!! As an Irish person this means a lot thank you 😊 (instant sub too)
Great review, I think you're right about Oliver's character being underwritten. I found it to be an enthralling and narratively odd piece. It feels like parts of three separate stories somewhat smoothly connected, like a fever dream that slowly grows nightmarish. It opens as a university coming-of-age tale of overcoming social alienation whilst exploring the empowering effect of empathy in male friendships. The second act changes location, as we spend the Summer at Saltburn, here mystery lurks behind every corner in every room; although, that is hardly explored. The film becomes sexier, and increasingly homoerotic: I firmly believed I was watching an updated interpretation of Pier Pasolini’s 'Theorem' as Keoghan’s Oliver meticulously seduced each member. Granted, it’s here where Oliver’s friendship with Elordi’s Felix fades into the background, despite being the initial focal point; nevertheless, the film remained excitingly unnerving. But after a shocking twist that propels Oliver’s and Felix’s friendship to the forefront, we’re left curious where their friendship will go from here, and in turn, where the film will go as well. Somewhat disappointingly, the film devolves into a cannibalistic eat-the-rich third act where the eroticism and friendships collapse, and the film lugs through its necessary plot points to conclude the story. The editing is working overtime to make this whole narrative seem convincingly coherent, and yes it does a good job, in fact it does a more cohesive job than Triangle of Sadness. I am in all fairness disappointed by the third act, as I’ve been spoilt by eat-the-rich films these past few years, so to witness a film that was fresh, and viscerally immersive, only for the rug to be pulled from under me for something plainly predictable: well, it left a lingering sour taste in my mouth from an otherwise great meal.
This was beautiful to read, thank you
i think Oliver’s motivations evolve throughout going from simply wanting a rich uni mate to infiltrating his family and when he can’t successfully pull it off, stealing the estate.
EXACTLY
Istg is it so difficult to understand that a character's motives may change? Jfc
Having personal experience with a sociopath, I agree with others on here that Oliver doesn't need to have a clearly defined motivation. My sociopath is a shallow soul who doesn't even understand his own motivations. He does what feels good, what feeds his need in that moment. I'm doubtful Oliver had a plan beyond being in the world of his object of desire, beginning with his act of sabotaging the bicycle tire. Then step by step his moment to moment impulses took over and directed his actions to get that hit of control or satisfaction. I'm not forgetting his deliberate calculated move to become the beneficiary of the manor, but that's how it played out. Owning the manor was not his aim from the start. It's just how it unfolded as his disordered character operates. That's how I see it anyway.
Thank you for this. A disturbed individual's mind doesn't quite work as mine & yours, so to make sense of why he does things we need to get in his shoes
Jonathan from The Film Drunk the type of guy to say “let me steal this real quick😜” when he takes a slice of pizza at a party
This movie was definitely gorgeous
this is not an eat the rich movie, basically a hedonistic film that reminds me of the picture of dorian gray if he wanted to be the person he was obessed with
Right! Everybody compares it to parasite, but whyyy
Movie felt like it was 4 hours long. I thought Oppenheimer was intimidating but I couldn’t wait to watch that again
Honestly, this is my 2022 version of Babylon. Flawed yet gorgeously shot, chaotic, and a great soundtrack to boot.
as a proud praiser of babylon, i will watch it asap, also loved promising young woman
"those shocking scenes are great out of context, but..." - well, there's Babylon The Movie for you, patch work from start to finish
Seen so many people saying they didn't think this stuck the ending but in the final scene (before dance) i just felt so highly stressed and anxious like i wanted to look away and couldn't which i think is a sign it did work for me!
Hot take: Fennel’s movies are more style than substance
I personally find the style IS the substance in her case. If that makes any sense to you, but it makes sense to me.
Hot take: style over substance isn't necessarily a bad thing
@@leonlinton634 these days, I'll take as much style I can get.
@@leonlinton634to each their own
@@leonlinton634 right? sometimes I just feel like watching some pretty moving pictures.
Just saw this yesterday. Woah....some scenes are hard to look at. The ending sums it up. This movie is both brilliant and disgusting.
i went in completely bline on this movie.
initially, i thought this was just an artsy fartsy film designed to aid elori in wanking himself off and further parade what a "different" heart throb type he is.
having not seen the trailer, nor hearing anything about the plot for this film i was genuinely taken by surprise by the direction it took. beautiful at times, utterly disgusting at other times.
I agree with every single thing you said which is extremely refreshing!
I loved it so much!! the girls that get it get it
I think the thing is that this film is basically Parasite except it's set in rural high society Britain.
With Parasite, we had a very clear social and economic grounding that gave the family's motivations meaning to us, the audience.
Here Oliver comes from a perfectly pleasant background. Leaving the only real takeaway for me as a British person myself as, "jeez, aren't the British just entirely awful"
It's a very Visitor Qesque type movie meets Talented Mr Ripley. I think Barry is a super wonderful actor. I cannot wait for his next performance.
This film was beautifully mid.
This is literally how i felt about the movie. I need to rewatch it.
I subbed because you pronounced Keoghan correctly!
How old are these "older folks"? Because I think I might be one and I loved Saltburn.
I was so excited about this movie but I was very disappointed. The ending is exactly what I expected it to be, even from the trailers. I don’t know why people are saying this film is a masterpiece & that it had so many twists and turns. I guess the movie had twists but they all led to the very predictable & obvious ending, which is boring. People compare this film to The Talented Mr. Ripley which I do not understand AT ALL. What made that movie so good is that the audience never knew what Tom Ripley was going to do next or how far he would go. Oliver’s motives in Saltburn are way too predictable and they really don’t make sense, in my opinion. Oliver isn’t poor or lower class. We see that he comes from a wealthy background too, so his only motivation for vengeance is because Felix used to ignore him…….until he didn’t and invited him to spend the summer with his family. Unlike in the talented Mr. Ripley, Tom is actually extremely poor and has to work multiple jobs just to survive to the next day. Tom idolizes the rich but he also hates and is offended by their easy & carefree lifestyle that wasn’t earned. Also it’s very clear that Tom is romantically attracted to Dickie. So Tom’s actions towards Dickie Greenleaf make sense.
But I liked the cinematography and the acting.
I completely agree I just felt lost on Oliver as a character he was from an affluent background himself. I also felt the ending didn’t feel like it was anywhere nearly as clever as the screenwriters thought with the coffee shop scene particularly,
@@LouisjamsonI’m still so confused about that ending. The Catton family is eccentric but they didn’t seem like horrible people. They just seemed like very rich people living in their own world. So was the audience supposed to support Oliver’s action towards the family? Or were we just supposed to think of him as some random psychopath that destroyed a family for absolutely no reason. Yes, Olivier inherited a lot of money from his actions but he was already rich so why does that matter???
If you didn't go to Oxford/deeply understand British social class, there is a lot lost in this film. It's great on its own, but EF leans heavily into stereotypes that are deeply embedded in British society. It's an odd watch for non-Brit audiences.
it was made for me
100%.....it should have been more of a character piece instead of a thriller imo. You could have kept the manipulation, the insanity, say the same things....without the "college creative writing class 'clever' wrapup ending" . Needed more ambiguity with the ending, and more character development.
I think the main weirdness is that the rich family isn't portrayed negatively....at all. Dumb and aloof and weird, but actually decent people. Give us weirder and darker family, and maybe the devastation of them feels, more sympathetic?
I don't really agree on how you see the portrayal of the rich family. No they're not portrayed as villanous or too twisted people, but that's because the main villain of the movie is the protagonist, Oliver's the one we should be scared of.
And they're not really portrayed as decent, other than Felix. They're all shallow, mostly the mother, who shows clear disgust on people outside their range. Neither parents care about Venetia's eating disorder. Farleigh laughs at Oliver the moment he comes in contact with him, and neither Felix nor Venetia really care when Farleigh is taken out of the house the first time. Don't remember much about the father tho, maybe he didn't do that much.
But yeah, what we see is just another family of rich people, which are most likely always like this. They're not supposed to be seen as evil, but neither as good people. Sorry for the long text
Spoilers ahead. Promising Young Woman was much better than Saltburn. While both controversial, at least Carey Mulligans' character did her revenge tour without hurting anyone or killing anyone. Also, the guy who killed her did not get away with it at the end. In Saltburn, Barry Keoghans' character was just a mentally ill (in a violent, manipulative, destructive way) and he got away with killing at least three family members. I am hoping Fennells' third movie is closer to Promising Young Woman than Saltburn.
The writing is terrible in it. The acting great. They couldn’t save it
i preferred saltburn over babylon
I hated Saltburn.
I LOVED Saltburn
Didn't even feel like an agenda was being pushed
PepperScorch would've been better...
Saltburn movie is disgusting 🤮
Both Babylon and Saltburn were pure trash
Wow you speak very great American. I can't even hear your accent!
Mug
What?
I am not really into hybrid GAY familyfilms so no thanks i skip this one.