This is a great observation. It fits in with Austen's penchant for free indirect discourse (something I only really know about from Dr Cox). You can imagine it being each character introducing themselves, written in a style that blurs the narrator and the characters' voices
It's interesting that Austen sets up Miss Bates as a foil to Emma so early because the incident where Emma makes her hurtful remark to Miss Bates at the picnic seems to be where everything kind of unravels for Emma - and after which, Knightley's "remonstrance" forces her to really think about her station in society. That bit from Knightley (basically the Austen version of "don't punch down") is as meaningful today as ever.
I also love how Emma has had "very little to distress or vex her" -- which is not the same thing as actually **having** anything to delight her. Miss Bates is genuinely contented with having so many good neighbors and friends; Emma is... not distressed. Nothing's gone wrong in her life, but it's a bit empty. I think it was a very deliberate choice to make all of Emma's friends 10+ years older than her -- she's lonely and doesn't even fully realize it. She didn't grow up with peers other than her sister. (And personally I think this is the source of a lot of her bad behavior -- she's never spent time with people who didn't think of her as a kid and coddle her socially! she's never experienced rejection!)
Yes... it's the old problem of a life lacking purpose. Especially when the person is (or feels) stuck in the situation (Emma feels like she can't leave her father, if I remember correctly). Not having any immediate problems is nice. But long-term, most people actually do need problems to solve and hurdles to overcome or they'll feel empty and useless inside.
Thank you for juxtaposing these two descriptions, it underscores the novel’s merits even more. I was always struck by the description of Ms Bates - it established her so firmly among Highbury residents as the one possessing the key characteristics that make life worthwhile. Every village has (or ideally should have) a person that elevates everyone else and makes them appear in a better light. What is also great is that the whole village understands this and values having someone like Ms Bates in their midst. This predisposes the reader to like the residents of Highbury right from the start.
Rereading Emma 20 years after first reading it, the introductory description of Miss Bates brought tears to my eyes, her position was so precarious and her only ability to improve her life was by careful money management. Her general good will towards her neighbours assisted her but she was not motivated by self interest in that, it is just her natural gift. Such a vivid portrait.
Such a treat to come home and find a video from you, and it's on two of my favorite J.A. characters. I enjoyed your thoughtful comparison. You have been missed by so many of us!
Always a delight to have one of your wonderful videos. Yes, I see how Miss Bates is a foil for Emma. But I also think Jane Fairfax, a young woman with real accomplishments, is a mirror for Emma, as is Mrs Elton. Mrs E, with her airs and graces, reveals Emma's silly snobbery. I love this book so much! I've lost count of how many times I've read it, and each time, it reveals things I had not seen. Again, thank you! 😊
It is so interesting that you bring this up. This is the first time I've considered that Emma perhaps even has an underlining jealousy for Miss Bates that she does not quite comprehend and understand.
So good to see a new Dr Cox analysis of Austen. As always, she opens up new ways of thinking about Austen novels and characters through close examination of the text. I'd never noticed the close comparison of Miss Bates and Emma before. Knightly sees Miss Bates' true worth as we see from his remonstrance of Emma at Box Hill. The book is very much about 'seeing' people as they really are, a skill that Emma lacks and has to painfully learn through the novel.
I’d never noticed the incredibly direct comparison between the two! Austen is so deft! I shall never tire of reading her and thinking about her prose! Thanks for the lovely video!
I think it's interesting that Miss Bates was an "old maid," a way of being that would generally invite contempt (she had an "uncommon" degree of popularity despite this, showing most unmarried, middle-aged women in her position would not be well-liked), and Emma's stated goal at the outset was that she wouldn't marry. But Emma's main occupation was getting other women to marry. All of Austen's books centre around marriage, and the heroine in all of her novels eventually gets married to a worthy man. Yet Miss Bates doesn't disparage herself for not having married, and no one else except Emma seems to look down on her. Maybe Emma really believed all along that marriage to a man you loved was the only route to happiness, but being astute, she realized that as she never ventured out of Highbury, she might never meet a man she loved enough to marry (not having considered Knightley a possibility at the time). So she doth-protest-too-much and made a point of making it known to all that she had no intention of marrying, as a preemptive strike against the pity of others. Maybe this was why she had a particular antipathy for Miss Bates, because she was afraid of becoming like her. But the narrative voice lets us see that Miss Bates has none of the qualities or blessings that most people would think a woman required to be happy - she'd never married, had no children, had almost no money, wasn't young or pretty or clever/accomplished. But she was happy. So maybe Austen, who was never married herself, was showing that a woman's worth to her neighbours and her own happiness didn't have to be dependent on marriage. Jane Fairfax's father died, causing her mother to apparently die of grief. Frank Churchill's mother married for love, but it didn't live up to her expectations and she wasn't happy (and she died). Emma's mother also had a short-lived marriage, as she also died. Harriet's life was probably the result of her father having cheated on his wife. Marriage/a man didn't necessarily improve the lives of the female characters in Emma.
You're back on UA-cam, Hurray!! Austen's family were religious as her father was the rector of the local parish. This came to my thoughts as you explained differences between Emma and Miss Bates. Emma being the worldly one (with a huge ego) with everything she could want she actually had. Whereas, Miss Bates, the simpleton, was the model Christian. She had nothing, and she did not want or ask for anything. Thus, Austen's novel, Emma, provides the reader with a lesson of life, how we should live it, from her own experience as the child of the village rector. That course on P&P looks AMAZING!
Some of the best moments spent in a long time -- even though I've read and loved Austen for decades I'm continually astounded at the riches you never fail to bring out of these texts ❤ (For what it's worth, one thing that occurred to me from the two passages you cited was that among those things that Miss Bates had that Emma did not, one of significance was perhaps a mother).
Emma is doubly bereaved maternally because she has just lost her beloved Miss Taylor to marriage. Rattling around in that big house by herself, and with her father's self-centred hypochondria to negotiate, her situation is far from enviable. I think that's why we don't hate her for her faults.
Interesting...having read Emma several times over the past 40 years, I had never considered that duality of introduction! I'm now doing a deep-dive for a dissertation, so thank you for a new perspective! So often as a reader (dare I say, a modern reader) of Austen, we take a superficial perspective of character, and forget the subtlety of Austen's narrative touch - or at least I seem to have done!
Having read Emma many times, I was in the habit of understanding Jane Fairfax as the antithesis of Emma. Thank you for this analysis! So glad you are posting things again.
Over the thousands of times I've read and listened to this novel and watched adaptations, I had never really thought about the fact that both Emma and Miss Bates have a parent who is dependent on them for just about everything - even though Mr. Woodhouse is definitely not as old as Mrs. Bates, he acts older than his years. And both Emma and Miss Bates truly prioritize the care of their parent out of duty as well as love. Thank you for this analysis!
I've actually been rereading _Emma_ these past two weeks. I keep thinking about how Maria Edgeworth shaded Austen in a letter by claiming that "there was no story" in _E_ and that no one had a clue as to making Mr Woodhouse's "thin, watery gruel". 😂
I love that no matter what character Jane is writing there seems something of humanity about them, loveable or not we have all known an Emma and we have all known Miss Bates
Miss Bates is like a Russian Yurodivi, a "holy fool". She is mentally lacking but spiritually gifted. Her goodness is universally recognized and brings her both friendship and allowance for oddness.
I love how Austin then proceeds to let Miss Bates annoy the heck out of us, along with Emma. None of us can get away from her! Then when Emma finally shuts down Miss Bates with her callous remark, we're complicit. When Mr. Knightly, who has been presented to us as a paragon, gives Emma her dressing down, we get lectured for our impatience with Miss Bates along with Emma.
I really felt bad for Miss Bates. I didn’t think she was all that annoying. Her wellbeing depended so much on all the wealthier people around her that her talkativeness really felt like it was a psychological compulsion of some sort, from the nerves
I never found her annoying either, however, I think living with her constantly would have been trying for someone truly intelligent with a sensitive disposition such as Jane Fairfax. Her inability to read the room does have her stumble accidentally onto painful subjects or embarrass her well-educated (and brought out into the world) niece. I liked Miss Bates but also sympathized with Emma when she snapped at her on Box Hill. I think a tired, already-irritated temper would probably find her frustrating. I never saw her as self-aware of her chattiness and silliness and she took everyone at face value. I think Box Hill was the first time it was ever held before her how others potentially saw her--at least in part.
Love this! I never thought to compare their descriptions before. I find it interesting that Austen sums up Emma in one short paragraph, while spending much more time on Miss Bates.
I never thought to compare Miss Bates’ introduction to Emma’s, but I found it hilarious when I first realised that Miss Bates had way more wisdom through the knowledge of the world than Emma when she hinted of being surprised that Mr. Elton was suddenly engaged to someone else although it was visible to Miss Bates (and the Cole’s) that he had been trying to woo Emma.
I have been hoping a new video would come out shortly. Looks like a great topic too! I just finished watching the 2006 BBC mini series and read the novel again a few months back. I also look forward to reading all the insightful comments from other readers. This channel has had the most interesting and friendly discussions.
Interesting that Miss Bates and Emma are both completely taken in by Frank Churchill. Miss Bates because her goodness of heart means that she can't see the wrong in anyone, Emma because of her vanity. The introductions to these two characters lay the ground for Frank Churchill's shameful deception of both of them. There is a lot of hidden pain in Miss Bates' past. She is very bereaved, having lost her father (also the source of her former good standard of living), her sister and the baby niece she brought up to the age of 10. I think that from the author's perspective Miss Bates cheerful chatter springs from her undoubted Christian faith (though this is never spelled out), and from her determination to make the best of things. For me, Miss Bates show the genius of Austen's writing. We, the readers, never feel sorry for her, only Mr Knightly does. Another author might have made a tragic character from the same material.
EMMA: When Emma is introduced, we get a baldfaced description of her that neatly matches a stereotype, that of the Rich Bitch. I think the "very little to distress or vex her" also conjures up a certain stereotypical view, that those who are Rich, Young and Beautiful live in a bubble of privilege and never have any problems. It's as if Austen is deliberately baiting the reader's natural tendency to assign stereotypes based on key words and phrases. I think it's masterly how Austen subtly allows this opening for reader antipathy towards Emma, and then plays with it. Emma is a complex character, she is much more than just a stereotype -- but her Privilege (in Youth Beauty Intelligence and Wealth) has indeed handicapped her in ways she is unaware of in the beginning. MISS BATES: In the detailed introduction to Miss Bates, Austen goes to great length, literally, to stop readers from automatically thinking of her in terms of the contemporary stereotype of the Old Maid. It's clearly important to Austen that, when we see and hear Miss Bates in action in the novel, we do NOT judge her according to stereotype, i.e. as a failure in life, or a ridiculous figure of fun (as Emma does). Miss Bates is a complex figure too; and her achievement, which Austen praises in her introduction, is that Miss Bates has not let her life of Disadvantage dictate her whole attitude, i.e. she is not dissatisfied with her life, in the way that Emma is dissatisfied without knowing it. Interestingly, stereotypical thinking is one of Emma's major weaknesses, making her completely wrong about a string of characters -- Harriet Smith, Mr Elton, Jane Fairfax, Frank Churchill, and Miss Bates. I love this novel for challenging us readers, as well as her characters, to break the mental habit of making knee-jerk assumptions about others.
I love your videos of the classic literature. I had enjoyed pride and prejudice, and Sense and Sensibility when I was younger, but you have made me really think about those books, the characters and the way Jane Austen writes. Now, thanks to you, I also have read her other works and enjoy them as much😊
I'm so glad to see another video from you! I continue to learn so much from your close readings. I was never properly taught how to analyze literature and doing so adds extra depth and delight to my favorite books
Gasped with surprise and joy to see this pop up! I do so wish one could enroll in the Oxford online courses without having to do the coursework. I don't need that stress in my life, but I love learning and would be willing to pay the same fees.
Rather disappointed that there was no mention that Miss Bates makes the best of her situation but Emma is stifled by hers. Isn't Emma's interference in other people's love lives motivated by a wish to do good - and particularly to be doing something? Think the Woodhouse & Knightley families stand most to benefit from land enclosure, which perhaps is the cause of the gypsies having to resort to intimidating Harriet & possibly the plight of the poorest is the subject which Mr Elton has to discuss with Mr Knightley? Can imagine Emma as a benign version of Lady Catherine, but giving more than good advice.
It's not a moot point to say that Emma is the heroine. It would have been so easy to write a story in which Jane Fairfax, with her situation in life and her escape from it through marriage, was the heroine and Emma nothing but a plot ploy to make one fear for Jane's position and add drama to Jane and Frank's engagement period.. Instead, we have a far more interesting piece of work where Austen decided to focus elsewhere.
I suspect Miss Bates never expressed jealousy or envy for anyone while Emma obviously felt jealousy/envy for the accomplishments of Jane Fairfax. She also seemed to resent Mr Knightly's admiration for Jane. She displayed a distain for Robert Martin even though he seemed to be a very respectable farmer - was it bcause she resented that he might remove Harriet from her circle of companions/admirers? It seemed that whenever Emma was not in the center of admiration she was not happy, whereas Miss Bates' chattery ways placed HER in the center of attention, probably with no expectation on her part. I wonder if Miss Bates was always so chattery or if, as her circumstances in life changed and lowered her position in Highbury society, she developed conversation as a sort-of defense mechanism to maintain some sort of position among her neighbors...... I would suspect she did not do this deliberately.
I agree, though possibly her resentment at Mr. Knightley's admiration for Jane also represented an as yet unsuspected jealousy of a romantic, rather than a purely selfish, nature.
Fascinating! Thank you! I'm sure you're very busy and probably have a list of topics you'd like to cover already, but I am really curious about your opinion -- what do you think Mr Bennet was spending all his yearly income on in P&P? I understand having a carriage and staff for it would be very expensive, but I am curious about what else could eat up all his income so that he had nothing to save for his daughters. I'd love your insights if you ever have time, thank you!
I've just finished rereading Emma for the ??th time. This time I found myself speculating about the shadowy story of Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill. I find it quite moving to imagine them meeting by chance and finding they have things in common - their connections to Highbury and the disruptions to their early lives - which inevitably gives them a sense of fellow feeling underpinning their attraction to each other. I wish Jane had lived long enough to write a novel whose heroine agrees to a secret engagement.
Joan Aiken wrote a whole novel called Jane Fairfax 'filling in the gaps' in Frank & Jane's side of things - from their perspective. Bits of this book are just as insightful as Austen's work I think. You might like to check it out. Joan Aiken did quite a few 'respectful tributes' to Austen's work - Mansfield Revisited is another one that I can recommend as a good read in it's own right. Also for the intelligent projection of themes present in the originals.
@@beabarber4300 Thank you. This is very interesting. To me the name Joan Aiken conjures up many hours spent reading 'The Wolves of Willoughby Chase' and its sequals to children, so I know she was a wonderful writer. I'll investigate her adult works.
I waited so long for a new video. ❤ Can you disclose what books, authors, characters do you plan to make videos of in the near future? I am very excited for that. Last time I listened to your videos I was still in high-school. Now I study literature at University and we have covered Pride and Prejudice in a week 😢. Fortunately, this year there is new course on Jane Austen 🎉 and I hope it will satisfy my need to learn and hear more about Austen.
Thank you for that insightful analysis - somehow it invites compassion, even for Emma. She needs to be shown what she lacks, to be in love and to be in some doubt of a return is I think how Mr Knightley put it. Even in the assumed safety of a humorous novel, there is a serious possibility that she could lose the person she most loves. It's that prospect of loss which gives emotional power to Persuasion and Pride and Prejudice.
I think another thing this emphasizes is that Emma during the picnic is being very disrespectful to someone who is a social inferior (and who on that basis should at least not be mistreated) but who would be considered entitled to a certain level of respect as someone substantially older than her. I think it also gives the impression that Miss Bates is well liked by the community at large, while Emma - even as the effective mistress of Hartfield - struggles to find real friends.
I don't think she had as yet figured out that to have a friend, you must be one, that is, have an interest in, and respect for another--something which Miss Bates knew by nature.
@@edithengel2284 yup. Emma’s social position means she gets the party invites, etc from those who wouldn’t necessarily socialize with her otherwise but it’s fairly superficial. She doesn’t have a true confidante at the beginning, nor does anyone not related to her really confide in her.
If we compare what they have and what they lack, we can see that Emma is seemingly lucky but in things that are not forever. She will surely lose youth and beauty at some point or another; comfortable household is not hers and as a woman she can lose it someday; and she can lose her bubbly personality if she has no friends. So she needs to work on her personality, so people will still like her, even when she's old, ugly and single. That's the lesson that she needs to learn from Ms Bates to really mature and change.
Dr. Cox, I clicked your close reading video second, but it would have been first if I hadn’t clicked the JOLLY vid “Brits Can’t Pronounce This Word Properly”. US English (NE Florida southern accent) is my first language. Presently studying French, Latin and Welsh online. It’s my understanding that ‘Emma’ is the least liked Jane Austen novel. However, Emma is a quite young, rich, cosseted and shielded lady of her epoque. She hasn’t experienced life and like many young people, is naively confident in her ignorance, believing she reads people and situations well, when the opposite is true. She has never suffered from unpleasant experiences and has had no adventures befall her. Emma is a blank page. She isn’t intentionally mean, she’s just tactless and only views others from her self-centered life.
You can take online courses with Dr Octavia Cox at the University of Oxford: www.conted.ox.ac.uk/tutors/7139
The link is not letting me click on the tool bar or anything else.
New Dr Octavia Cox essay. Cause for celebration!
Love the fact that Miss Bates' introduction is 10 times as long as Emmas. Really fits her character.
That is such a good point!!
This is a great observation. It fits in with Austen's penchant for free indirect discourse (something I only really know about from Dr Cox). You can imagine it being each character introducing themselves, written in a style that blurs the narrator and the characters' voices
This is such an accurate observation! Thanks for sharing this thought
Excellent! 🙂💙
True 😂
It's interesting that Austen sets up Miss Bates as a foil to Emma so early because the incident where Emma makes her hurtful remark to Miss Bates at the picnic seems to be where everything kind of unravels for Emma - and after which, Knightley's "remonstrance" forces her to really think about her station in society.
That bit from Knightley (basically the Austen version of "don't punch down") is as meaningful today as ever.
I also love how Emma has had "very little to distress or vex her" -- which is not the same thing as actually **having** anything to delight her. Miss Bates is genuinely contented with having so many good neighbors and friends; Emma is... not distressed. Nothing's gone wrong in her life, but it's a bit empty. I think it was a very deliberate choice to make all of Emma's friends 10+ years older than her -- she's lonely and doesn't even fully realize it. She didn't grow up with peers other than her sister. (And personally I think this is the source of a lot of her bad behavior -- she's never spent time with people who didn't think of her as a kid and coddle her socially! she's never experienced rejection!)
Yes... it's the old problem of a life lacking purpose. Especially when the person is (or feels) stuck in the situation (Emma feels like she can't leave her father, if I remember correctly).
Not having any immediate problems is nice. But long-term, most people actually do need problems to solve and hurdles to overcome or they'll feel empty and useless inside.
I'm a simple woman. I see that a Dr. Cox video has been uploaded; I watch it. Here I go!
I hope that things are going well for you, Dr. Cox
Thank you for juxtaposing these two descriptions, it underscores the novel’s merits even more. I was always struck by the description of Ms Bates - it established her so firmly among Highbury residents as the one possessing the key characteristics that make life worthwhile. Every village has (or ideally should have) a person that elevates everyone else and makes them appear in a better light. What is also great is that the whole village understands this and values having someone like Ms Bates in their midst. This predisposes the reader to like the residents of Highbury right from the start.
I seriously arranged a babysitter so I can watch this. I am so happy that you're back! ❤
This is self-care.
We missed you! Thanks for taking time out to make another video!
Rereading Emma 20 years after first reading it, the introductory description of Miss Bates brought tears to my eyes, her position was so precarious and her only ability to improve her life was by careful money management. Her general good will towards her neighbours assisted her but she was not motivated by self interest in that, it is just her natural gift. Such a vivid portrait.
Such a treat to come home and find a video from you, and it's on two of my favorite J.A. characters. I enjoyed your thoughtful comparison. You have been missed by so many of us!
Always a delight to have one of your wonderful videos. Yes, I see how Miss Bates is a foil for Emma. But I also think Jane Fairfax, a young woman with real accomplishments, is a mirror for Emma, as is Mrs Elton. Mrs E, with her airs and graces, reveals Emma's silly snobbery. I love this book so much! I've lost count of how many times I've read it, and each time, it reveals things I had not seen. Again, thank you! 😊
It is so interesting that you bring this up. This is the first time I've considered that Emma perhaps even has an underlining jealousy for Miss Bates that she does not quite comprehend and understand.
So good to see a new Dr Cox analysis of Austen. As always, she opens up new ways of thinking about Austen novels and characters through close examination of the text. I'd never noticed the close comparison of Miss Bates and Emma before. Knightly sees Miss Bates' true worth as we see from his remonstrance of Emma at Box Hill. The book is very much about 'seeing' people as they really are, a skill that Emma lacks and has to painfully learn through the novel.
I’d never noticed the incredibly direct comparison between the two! Austen is so deft! I shall never tire of reading her and thinking about her prose! Thanks for the lovely video!
I think it's interesting that Miss Bates was an "old maid," a way of being that would generally invite contempt (she had an "uncommon" degree of popularity despite this, showing most unmarried, middle-aged women in her position would not be well-liked), and Emma's stated goal at the outset was that she wouldn't marry. But Emma's main occupation was getting other women to marry. All of Austen's books centre around marriage, and the heroine in all of her novels eventually gets married to a worthy man. Yet Miss Bates doesn't disparage herself for not having married, and no one else except Emma seems to look down on her.
Maybe Emma really believed all along that marriage to a man you loved was the only route to happiness, but being astute, she realized that as she never ventured out of Highbury, she might never meet a man she loved enough to marry (not having considered Knightley a possibility at the time). So she doth-protest-too-much and made a point of making it known to all that she had no intention of marrying, as a preemptive strike against the pity of others. Maybe this was why she had a particular antipathy for Miss Bates, because she was afraid of becoming like her. But the narrative voice lets us see that Miss Bates has none of the qualities or blessings that most people would think a woman required to be happy - she'd never married, had no children, had almost no money, wasn't young or pretty or clever/accomplished. But she was happy. So maybe Austen, who was never married herself, was showing that a woman's worth to her neighbours and her own happiness didn't have to be dependent on marriage. Jane Fairfax's father died, causing her mother to apparently die of grief. Frank Churchill's mother married for love, but it didn't live up to her expectations and she wasn't happy (and she died). Emma's mother also had a short-lived marriage, as she also died. Harriet's life was probably the result of her father having cheated on his wife. Marriage/a man didn't necessarily improve the lives of the female characters in Emma.
You're back on UA-cam, Hurray!! Austen's family were religious as her father was the rector of the local parish. This came to my thoughts as you explained differences between Emma and Miss Bates. Emma being the worldly one (with a huge ego) with everything she could want she actually had. Whereas, Miss Bates, the simpleton, was the model Christian. She had nothing, and she did not want or ask for anything. Thus, Austen's novel, Emma, provides the reader with a lesson of life, how we should live it, from her own experience as the child of the village rector. That course on P&P looks AMAZING!
Some of the best moments spent in a long time -- even though I've read and loved Austen for decades I'm continually astounded at the riches you never fail to bring out of these texts ❤ (For what it's worth, one thing that occurred to me from the two passages you cited was that among those things that Miss Bates had that Emma did not, one of significance was perhaps a mother).
Emma is doubly bereaved maternally because she has just lost her beloved Miss Taylor to marriage. Rattling around in that big house by herself, and with her father's self-centred hypochondria to negotiate, her situation is far from enviable. I think that's why we don't hate her for her faults.
I would never discover those things in Austen's prose without Your lectures! .. Thank You! And..nice necklace !
Interesting...having read Emma several times over the past 40 years, I had never considered that duality of introduction! I'm now doing a deep-dive for a dissertation, so thank you for a new perspective! So often as a reader (dare I say, a modern reader) of Austen, we take a superficial perspective of character, and forget the subtlety of Austen's narrative touch - or at least I seem to have done!
I think the Emma/Miss Bates relationship is super interesting when compared to the Anne Elliot/Mrs. Smith relationship in Persuasion.
Best 12 minutes and 52 seconds of my day!
Yes! Can’t wait, so happy you’re back
Having read Emma many times, I was in the habit of understanding Jane Fairfax as the antithesis of Emma. Thank you for this analysis! So glad you are posting things again.
Same! This video was so eye-opening. ❤
Over the thousands of times I've read and listened to this novel and watched adaptations, I had never really thought about the fact that both Emma and Miss Bates have a parent who is dependent on them for just about everything - even though Mr. Woodhouse is definitely not as old as Mrs. Bates, he acts older than his years. And both Emma and Miss Bates truly prioritize the care of their parent out of duty as well as love. Thank you for this analysis!
This is a great point!
I was starting to despair! This has made my day. Thank you Dr Octavia Cox ❤
Welcome back Dr. Octavia! We missed you.
I've actually been rereading _Emma_ these past two weeks. I keep thinking about how Maria Edgeworth shaded Austen in a letter by claiming that "there was no story" in _E_ and that no one had a clue as to making Mr Woodhouse's "thin, watery gruel". 😂
Lovely to have you back. I always learn something new. Thank you!
I am so excited you have a video and that it is about Austen! Thank you.
I love that no matter what character Jane is writing there seems something of humanity about them, loveable or not we have all known an Emma and we have all known Miss Bates
And a Mr. Weston!
Oh my goodness, I was so excited to see you posted a new video!!!
Dr. Cox, your lectures are stellar, and I so look forward to every one. Your analyses in great literature uplift our lives.
Yay! Dr Cox! Brilliant!
Miss Bates is like a Russian Yurodivi, a "holy fool". She is mentally lacking but spiritually gifted. Her goodness is universally recognized and brings her both friendship and allowance for oddness.
YES! Dr. Cox is back and as insightful as ever. My day is made.
Nice to see you post again. Hope you have more time for it in the future. (But that's not pressure, just appreciation.)
Hooray!!! Dr. Cox video notification means time to pop the bubblies! Cheers! 🥂
Thankyou for this thought provoking video...hope all is good in your new job. Was so good to catch up with you again
Great to see you back Dr Cox. Another excellent piece of analysis.
So looking forward to this!
Clicked on this so fast!!
Hurrah! You're back Octavia! 🙂
Brilliant video, so interesting!
It's so nice to have a new video! And on Emma, too!
So excited for this breakdown!
Yay! I thought we had lost you! ❤
I clicked so fast I nearly broke my screen. So exciting to have a video essay from Dr Cox!!
It's always so pleasant to hear you talk about literature. Thank you for this new video!
fantastic! I had never noticed the close parallels in how they were introduced.
I’m so excited for this!
I love how Austin then proceeds to let Miss Bates annoy the heck out of us, along with Emma. None of us can get away from her! Then when Emma finally shuts down Miss Bates with her callous remark, we're complicit. When Mr. Knightly, who has been presented to us as a paragon, gives Emma her dressing down, we get lectured for our impatience with Miss Bates along with Emma.
Ooh, i was only thinking of Dr OC yesterday and looked what popped up this morning ❤❤
Excellent! Thank you! 🙂💙
I really felt bad for Miss Bates. I didn’t think she was all that annoying. Her wellbeing depended so much on all the wealthier people around her that her talkativeness really felt like it was a psychological compulsion of some sort, from the nerves
I never found her annoying either, however, I think living with her constantly would have been trying for someone truly intelligent with a sensitive disposition such as Jane Fairfax. Her inability to read the room does have her stumble accidentally onto painful subjects or embarrass her well-educated (and brought out into the world) niece. I liked Miss Bates but also sympathized with Emma when she snapped at her on Box Hill. I think a tired, already-irritated temper would probably find her frustrating.
I never saw her as self-aware of her chattiness and silliness and she took everyone at face value. I think Box Hill was the first time it was ever held before her how others potentially saw her--at least in part.
It's nice to see you return! I enjoy your work; you always give me something new to enjoy about old books. 😄
Love this! I never thought to compare their descriptions before. I find it interesting that Austen sums up Emma in one short paragraph, while spending much more time on Miss Bates.
🎉🎉🎉🎉 Dr Olivia Cox has returned to us! Bliss!
I never thought to compare Miss Bates’ introduction to Emma’s, but I found it hilarious when I first realised that Miss Bates had way more wisdom through the knowledge of the world than Emma when she hinted of being surprised that Mr. Elton was suddenly engaged to someone else although it was visible to Miss Bates (and the Cole’s) that he had been trying to woo Emma.
I have been hoping a new video would come out shortly. Looks like a great topic too! I just finished watching the 2006 BBC mini series and read the novel again a few months back. I also look forward to reading all the insightful comments from other readers. This channel has had the most interesting and friendly discussions.
A new Dr Cox / Austen vid! ❤
Interesting that Miss Bates and Emma are both completely taken in by Frank Churchill. Miss Bates because her goodness of heart means that she can't see the wrong in anyone, Emma because of her vanity. The introductions to these two characters lay the ground for Frank Churchill's shameful deception of both of them.
There is a lot of hidden pain in Miss Bates' past. She is very bereaved, having lost her father (also the source of her former good standard of living), her sister and the baby niece she brought up to the age of 10. I think that from the author's perspective Miss Bates cheerful chatter springs from her undoubted Christian faith (though this is never spelled out), and from her determination to make the best of things. For me, Miss Bates show the genius of Austen's writing. We, the readers, never feel sorry for her, only Mr Knightly does. Another author might have made a tragic character from the same material.
Oh yay! Up very late (or rather early) in Australia and I lucked on it live. So grateful for another one!
EMMA: When Emma is introduced, we get a baldfaced description of her that neatly matches a stereotype, that of the Rich Bitch. I think the "very little to distress or vex her" also conjures up a certain stereotypical view, that those who are Rich, Young and Beautiful live in a bubble of privilege and never have any problems. It's as if Austen is deliberately baiting the reader's natural tendency to assign stereotypes based on key words and phrases. I think it's masterly how Austen subtly allows this opening for reader antipathy towards Emma, and then plays with it. Emma is a complex character, she is much more than just a stereotype -- but her Privilege (in Youth Beauty Intelligence and Wealth) has indeed handicapped her in ways she is unaware of in the beginning.
MISS BATES: In the detailed introduction to Miss Bates, Austen goes to great length, literally, to stop readers from automatically thinking of her in terms of the contemporary stereotype of the Old Maid. It's clearly important to Austen that, when we see and hear Miss Bates in action in the novel, we do NOT judge her according to stereotype, i.e. as a failure in life, or a ridiculous figure of fun (as Emma does). Miss Bates is a complex figure too; and her achievement, which Austen praises in her introduction, is that Miss Bates has not let her life of Disadvantage dictate her whole attitude, i.e. she is not dissatisfied with her life, in the way that Emma is dissatisfied without knowing it.
Interestingly, stereotypical thinking is one of Emma's major weaknesses, making her completely wrong about a string of characters -- Harriet Smith, Mr Elton, Jane Fairfax, Frank Churchill, and Miss Bates. I love this novel for challenging us readers, as well as her characters, to break the mental habit of making knee-jerk assumptions about others.
So delighted to have another video after working through your backlog!
So happy to have a new video from you!! Have missed them!! ❤
What a bright spot in my day--a new Dr. Olivia Cox video. Thank you for taking the time to make these wonderful pieces of criticism.
So glad you are back!
Welcome back!
I love your videos of the classic literature. I had enjoyed pride and prejudice, and Sense and Sensibility when I was younger, but you have made me really think about those books, the characters and the way Jane Austen writes. Now, thanks to you, I also have read her other works and enjoy them as much😊
Emma appears to have everything going for her on the outside. On the inside she starts off as Mrs. Elton's soul sister, if a little less openly pushy.
Yes, which of course - ironically - Emma just _cannot_ see
I'm so glad to see another video from you! I continue to learn so much from your close readings. I was never properly taught how to analyze literature and doing so adds extra depth and delight to my favorite books
Gasped with surprise and joy to see this pop up!
I do so wish one could enroll in the Oxford online courses without having to do the coursework. I don't need that stress in my life, but I love learning and would be willing to pay the same fees.
Truly more brilliant than ever.
Rather disappointed that there was no mention that Miss Bates makes the best of her situation but Emma is stifled by hers. Isn't Emma's interference in other people's love lives motivated by a wish to do good - and particularly to be doing something?
Think the Woodhouse & Knightley families stand most to benefit from land enclosure, which perhaps is the cause of the gypsies having to resort to intimidating Harriet & possibly the plight of the poorest is the subject which Mr Elton has to discuss with Mr Knightley?
Can imagine Emma as a benign version of Lady Catherine, but giving more than good advice.
Missed you Octavia! Please please share weekly vids 😭😭
She has a day job nowadays, so finding the time would be a real challenge.
More, mor, more!! Please , m’am, more!!
It's not a moot point to say that Emma is the heroine. It would have been so easy to write a story in which Jane Fairfax, with her situation in life and her escape from it through marriage, was the heroine and Emma nothing but a plot ploy to make one fear for Jane's position and add drama to Jane and Frank's engagement period.. Instead, we have a far more interesting piece of work where Austen decided to focus elsewhere.
Indeed! A lesser writer would never have brought us emma as she is
Yessssss we are sooo back
I suspect Miss Bates never expressed jealousy or envy for anyone while Emma obviously felt jealousy/envy for the accomplishments of Jane Fairfax. She also seemed to resent Mr Knightly's admiration for Jane. She displayed a distain for Robert Martin even though he seemed to be a very respectable farmer - was it bcause she resented that he might remove Harriet from her circle of companions/admirers? It seemed that whenever Emma was not in the center of admiration she was not happy, whereas Miss Bates' chattery ways placed HER in the center of attention, probably with no expectation on her part. I wonder if Miss Bates was always so chattery or if, as her circumstances in life changed and lowered her position in Highbury society, she developed conversation as a sort-of defense mechanism to maintain some sort of position among her neighbors...... I would suspect she did not do this deliberately.
I agree, though possibly her resentment at Mr. Knightley's admiration for Jane also represented an as yet unsuspected jealousy of a romantic, rather than a purely selfish, nature.
That is so interesting! What a clever way of drawing the reader's attention to these character points.
Yay!
Using "seemed" in Emma's description also seems like a foreshadowing by Jane Austen of other main characters in the novel who aren't what they seem.
I’ve only just finished Emma! ❤
Thank you for coming back ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for your insight and analysis bringing these characters closer to the reader
Fascinating! Thank you!
I'm sure you're very busy and probably have a list of topics you'd like to cover already, but I am really curious about your opinion -- what do you think Mr Bennet was spending all his yearly income on in P&P? I understand having a carriage and staff for it would be very expensive, but I am curious about what else could eat up all his income so that he had nothing to save for his daughters. I'd love your insights if you ever have time, thank you!
I've just finished rereading Emma for the ??th time. This time I found myself speculating about the shadowy story of Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill. I find it quite moving to imagine them meeting by chance and finding they have things in common - their connections to Highbury and the disruptions to their early lives - which inevitably gives them a sense of fellow feeling underpinning their attraction to each other. I wish Jane had lived long enough to write a novel whose heroine agrees to a secret engagement.
Joan Aiken wrote a whole novel called Jane Fairfax 'filling in the gaps' in Frank & Jane's side of things - from their perspective. Bits of this book are just as insightful as Austen's work I think. You might like to check it out. Joan Aiken did quite a few 'respectful tributes' to Austen's work - Mansfield Revisited is another one that I can recommend as a good read in it's own right. Also for the intelligent projection of themes present in the originals.
@@beabarber4300 Thank you. This is very interesting. To me the name Joan Aiken conjures up many hours spent reading 'The Wolves of Willoughby Chase' and its sequals to children, so I know she was a wonderful writer. I'll investigate her adult works.
So good to see you! Thanks for your videos! :)
This is a great comparison. I never really thought of it this way
As always love your videos. Especially at the moment.
I waited so long for a new video. ❤ Can you disclose what books, authors, characters do you plan to make videos of in the near future? I am very excited for that. Last time I listened to your videos I was still in high-school. Now I study literature at University and we have covered Pride and Prejudice in a week 😢. Fortunately, this year there is new course on Jane Austen 🎉 and I hope it will satisfy my need to learn and hear more about Austen.
Thank you for that insightful analysis - somehow it invites compassion, even for Emma.
She needs to be shown what she lacks, to be in love and to be in some doubt of a return is I think how Mr Knightley put it. Even in the assumed safety of a humorous novel, there is a serious possibility that she could lose the person she most loves. It's that prospect of loss which gives emotional power to Persuasion and Pride and Prejudice.
I think another thing this emphasizes is that Emma during the picnic is being very disrespectful to someone who is a social inferior (and who on that basis should at least not be mistreated) but who would be considered entitled to a certain level of respect as someone substantially older than her.
I think it also gives the impression that Miss Bates is well liked by the community at large, while Emma - even as the effective mistress of Hartfield - struggles to find real friends.
I don't think she had as yet figured out that to have a friend, you must be one, that is, have an interest in, and respect for another--something which Miss Bates knew by nature.
@@edithengel2284 yup. Emma’s social position means she gets the party invites, etc from those who wouldn’t necessarily socialize with her otherwise but it’s fairly superficial. She doesn’t have a true confidante at the beginning, nor does anyone not related to her really confide in her.
If we compare what they have and what they lack, we can see that Emma is seemingly lucky but in things that are not forever. She will surely lose youth and beauty at some point or another; comfortable household is not hers and as a woman she can lose it someday; and she can lose her bubbly personality if she has no friends. So she needs to work on her personality, so people will still like her, even when she's old, ugly and single. That's the lesson that she needs to learn from Ms Bates to really mature and change.
Dr. Cox, I clicked your close reading video second, but it would have been first if I hadn’t clicked the JOLLY vid “Brits Can’t Pronounce This Word Properly”. US English (NE Florida southern accent) is my first language. Presently studying French, Latin and Welsh online.
It’s my understanding that ‘Emma’ is the least liked Jane Austen novel. However, Emma is a quite young, rich, cosseted and shielded lady of her epoque. She hasn’t experienced life and like many young people, is naively confident in her ignorance, believing she reads people and situations well, when the opposite is true. She has never suffered from unpleasant experiences and has had no adventures befall her. Emma is a blank page. She isn’t intentionally mean, she’s just tactless and only views others from her self-centered life.
Thanks
Seems like a theme in Austen. I am reminded of Fanny's comparison of her parents home to Mansfield Park.
I love your videos ❤