The quality inflatables are pretty heavy. Up until 1.5 years ago I worked for REI and the ones we sold (I forget the brand at the moment) were around 70 pounds.
You hit the nail on the head with “for $1000 you are paying for portability” thats what you are getting, and everything in kayaking is a trade off. You are trading off portability. The Sky 10 is thermoformed kayak that is going to perform significantly better. The one thing you missed with the Oru, is it is bought by a lot of people who say “I can’t lift a kayak onto the roof of my car” Great comparison though..
Agreed. " Oru versus a comparably priced inflatable kayak." And that kayak would be the Sea Eagle Razorlite, probably the Inlet's biggest competitor in it's price range of portable kayaks. I choose the Razorlite, but have followed groups on the ORU to check them out and especially the Inlet and now new Lake model. There are pros & cons to the Inlet vs the Razorlite. The pros of the Inlet are: It's only 20 lbs vs 35 lbs. Very fast setup time & tear down time It's light enough to back pack to a remote pond. The pros of the Razorlite are: More durable. I've seen a ton of Inlets break from many posts about them. ORU has recently improved the fearings, which was one of the causes. The Razorlite offers better performance & better glide. Noticeably above the Inlet, probably a little below the hard shell shown. The Razorlite is safer. ORU's, especially the Inlet, are known to fill with water from improper setup or broken fearings. Countless people have posted about this. And when they fill, you can't paddle them back. You have to swim back with the boat. And forget about re-entry if you flipped, it's extremely difficult for most people. The person that ran the ORU FB group destroyed their more expensive model attempting a self-rescue practice. The Razorlite is more comfortable than the Inlet. The Razorlite has way more storage for camping or fishing gear than the Inlet and the weight capacity is 500 lbs. Cons of the Razorlite: While it's about the fastest inflatable to setup, which has taken me as little as 3 mins 20 seconds, it's slow to pack up. 35 lbs from the car to the water is fine for me, but some people like woman would prefer lighter. And taking the Razorlite to a remote pond is out for me. While I'm happy with my choice of the Razorlite on a normal day, for the past 3 1/2 weeks almost every day has been threatening with a mix of dark clouds. In weather like that, I'd like to have something to just quickly throw in the water and paddle close to the launch in case I need to fly out of there due to the weather. So I haven't felt like going most of this month. If I had an ORU Inlet or Lake, I'd be more likely to go for a quick paddle on days like these because it's less work and I can get back in my car faster when I'm dodging lightning or rain. I'm on the fence of adding an Inlet or Lake to my kayak collection to have something to quickly through in & out of the water, but for the other reasons I mentioned, I'm hesitant to buy an ORU. I have Sea Eagles in great condition that have been used hundreds of times and almost 15 years old. I don't an Inlet would last long. Also note, Aquglide has a brand new inflatable kayak that is just 15 lbs! It costs a couple hundred dollars more and is approx half as durable as the Razorlite and other $1000 inflatable kayaks. Maybe closer in durability to the Inlet? Performance of the Aquaglide is a little below the Razorlite, but probably closer to the Inlet, and considerably better performance on flatwater than Packraft.
Love my Oru. Took it out on 20 trips, 10 states, and 2 Great Lakes in season 1. Took it along on a family camping trip (only have a little space to pack it) and cross country strapped to a motorcycle. Hit mountain lakes and desert canyons. Couldn’t have done the trip with a hard shell.
Long time kayaker here. I've owned the Oru Coast XT 16' touring boat for a few years - as well as a dozen+ RM, fiberglass, and wood rec and sea kayaks over the years. The Oru boats aren't a great performance value compared to normal kayaks, but the easy storage/portability aspect gives em immense value and the best choice for urban dwellers who still want paddling performance. Although I do own a garage and SUV with roof racks and paddle my 17' hand built sea kayak, I still use my Oru Coast half the time, due to the lightness convenience, and the security of being able to hide it in the trunk.
Hi, great video, I’ve had a Oru Inlet for over 3 years, I can never look at a stretch of water again without wishing I could get the Oru Inlet onto it. Maintenance issues I’ve addressed myself, first I replaced the broken bit of plastic anchoring the bungee cord holding the seat, with a knot & that worked well. Now I have experienced the deterioration of the metal rivets in the black bow & stern covers, now replaced with cable ties. No way am I giving up this beautiful boat.
I have owned an Oru inlet for 4 years and we love it. We use it in the harbor where our sailboat is docked, around small ponds and lakes, and the fox river near our house. It's not a touring kayak and it won't last you 35 years but it's so portable you will end up using it more than you think. We throw it in the car anytime we are going somewhere that is near water "just in case" and it gets a ton of use. It is super easy to set up and so light the kids have no issues maneuvering or hauling it on shore. It is not designed to be an all day kayak but for a couple hours it's very comfortable and it paddles better than you would expect. I have two wooden touring style kayaks that I love and of course paddle nicer than a folder, but I am telling you being able to just toss it in the car and not mess with racks and straps and worry about it being exposed to theft or weather is great. I HIGHLY recommend even if you have a hard side to get one for times you don't wanna mess with transporting a big award 12-17 footer.
Great video Dan. Loved it. I have had an Oru Inlet for two months and am doing a lot of paddling. I bought it very the exact reasons you mentioned. I also don't have roof racks at this stage. I love my Oru but also suffer from it's poor seating position and have to keep moving my legs to avoid them falling asleep while paddling 😅😅. Over time I'll invest in a hard-shell kayak as I extend my distances and seek a faster boat. In the meantime the Oru gets me out there which is what I bought it for. Thanks mate for your great videos. Stat safe. Kev in Australia 😎
Love your videos ❤ I spent the last three years vigorously exploring, every portable and folding kayak I could find. I was exceptionally saddened to learn that ORU kayak had enormous, technical support customer service, and other issues. REI used to sell them, and I was able to access a bunch of the customer reviews that frankly made me run screaming. MANY OF THE ORU OWNERS REPORTED WEAR PROBLEMS TOO ! (Your instinct on that question was excellent 💪) They also hammer you on shipping even if you return it within the time window. When I confronted them on the issue they became negotiable but to me it was NOT the way to start a relationship. I also explored the Pakayak and unfortunately I found that the design of it made it undesirable in the water and I WORSE I also experienced a leak. While that leak may have been "a one in 1 million" for the amount of money it cost just was not worth it to me. I think the simplicity of the 10 foot Eddyline is the only way to go. I explored many other "portable" kayaks as well , at all price ranges and to me, the bottom line is nothing in the portable world has the smoothness, the gliding ability, and the reliability of the traditional hard shells like eddyline. Just my opinion for what it is worth. 😊
true... except now you need 21 square feet of space to put a kayak. you could fit a 16' oru coast in a closet at an equal 32lbs and 6 sq ft. i dont own either but that is the actual draw of oru. you dont have to compare apples to apples cause you can fit watermelons where the other apple fits.
Interesting comparison. Seen a few folks paddling the ORU (who said it was fun) but I LOVE my Sky 10 (3rd boat and possibly the last upgrade) ... 5'4", 170 fits perfectly, and isn't too heavy for this 68 y/o gramma 😉
I have an haven TT that I have owned for 2+ years and I love it. I have been taking it out weekly over the summer mornings in Texas. I do find myself banging my hands on the sides of the boat when I try to paddle fast. I had to get Oru's upgraded seat cushion. I have never felt back pain like you mentioned but I do find that my but gets fatigued after about 90 mins. I am able to edge in the HavenTT and have enough secondary stability that I think I could stand in it. I do get blown around by wind even with it being a 16ft boat. I highly recommend.
Skin on Frame folders have made incredible journeys all around the world. I love the skin on frame feel on the water, they are extremely stable and comfortable even in extreme conditions. I own way too many kayaks of every kind but skin on frame folders are my favorite and my go to boats.
@@HeadwatersKayak Acknowledged but the title of your video is "Folding Kayaks vs Hardshell." The Oru coroplast construction is not what most kayakers would think of first when you say folding kayak.
I like the spotlight being shined on the small stuff, great for apartment dwellers like me. Would love to see some of the inflatable pedal kayaks on the channel too! Fingers crossed that the Airship comes out soon 🤞🏼
Love my Oru Beach. I only walk or cycle. With the backpack I can walk or cycle to different beaches. And living in a flat, I just don't have the storage for a hard shell.
Thank you for the excellent review. I enjoy my our kayaks but worry about customer complaints at the BBB website, fragility, and self rescue limitations.
This is by far the best review of the Oru I have ever seen. I watched a ton of videos about it but this one mentions a lot that no one else has even hinted at. Yes, i know it's portable but what else? This is the only video that will really give you that information.
Thanks for the great review! These are the two I had narrowed down to a couple of years ago, and with a previous review you had of a Sky 10, I went that route. I love my sky 10 and it’s perfect for me! I would love to see you put the sky 10 in a variety of SUVs - - particularly a Forrester! It would be nice to see how you are sliding it in and either putting it on its side or any pointers as far as the front window goes!
I love my ORU. This is my 3rd year and I use it all the time in rivers and lakes. I've had the Inlet with a few modifications to improve comfort and performance which I do for pretty much everything. It's absolutely perfect. The inlet weighs only 20 lbs which is prefect with me weighing only 110. I get far more use out of this than I do my hard shell which I just have located at small lake house.
The oru inlet paddles like a bath tub. I agree that the beach glides much better and would be a better comparison to the Eddie line. It takes me longer to setup the oru than 3 minutes because the Clips requires some force to put together. The bottom of the oru can be readily torn if you go over a sharp rock inadvertently which hastened to me when in was far from shore. The big advantage of the oru is that I can fold it up and put it in the trunk of my sedan.
I own both the Oru Lake+ and the Oru Haven TT (their tandem option). I'm a bit too close to the weight limit on the Lake+ (when I started kayaking regularly about 6 months ago I weight about 230, I'm down to 210 now but still with that 250 weight limit I am low in the water) and so I have swamped it a few times. A couple of months ago I switched to using the Haven TT in the single paddler configuration (it can do tandem or single) on my regular kayaking. I've taken it out on the choppy Columbia river (setting out from Rooster Rock area) and a week ago I paddled 8 miles up river on the Willamette with it and then 8 miles back downriver to my starting spot. I currently take it out three days a week and it's been a great product to get me into paddling! However the maintenance is an issue with how much I'm using it. I've recently gotten a small hole in the Haven TT and so on that 16 mile trip I had to stop about three times to dump the water out (the bilge pump was taking too long with how much water I took on). I've also had bolts give out that I've had to replace, and the seat back often slides down on me. It's a good kayak, but I think for as much paddling as I'm doing I want to upgrade to an Eddyline Sikta XT most likely, I think the amount of time it takes to put it on to and take off of my car will not be any more time than it takes to assemble the Oru Kayak. I drive a Dodge Charger so I don't even have to lift it up all that high. I'll keep the Haven TT around though for when I take my kids or wife with me kayaking, which we've done several times now as well. I will say my experience in both Oru Kayaks have been better paddling than the conventional cheap rotomolded kayaks sold at places like Wal-Mart. It's also been much better than inflatable kayaks. It glides a lot more smoothly up river than those, but I think the Eddyline will significantly improve my speed and range. I always start out kayaking up river and then return back downriver to my starting point.
Then there are the Klepper and Longhaul folding kayaks. They're not light. They're not cheap. However, the are pretty bomber and can last for decades. My Klepper Aerius 2 is about 32 years old. It's a 17 foot tandem. I bought it when it was about 20 years old, and have put a few thousand miles on it on some epic long trips.
@@HeadwatersKayak My A2 isn't quick at all due to its weight and width, but it can comfortably cruise at over 4 mph with two paddlers and two hundred pounds of gear. The sail-plan options also offer an ability to move along at 5 mph while making a sandwich. I'd argue the biggest benefit is the ability to pack it up on a plane. Sadly, the old style folding kayaks have fallen out of favor for some time. Folbot and Feathercraft went under in the last ten years or so.
@@wisenberI was in the market for a light, folding kayak and seriously considered the Oru Beach or Coast XT. Just pulled the trigger on an almost brand new Klepper Aerius 490 Quattro (single) which cost 20% less than a new Oru Coast. Very different craft with the Klepper weighing twice as much (30 kg). Planning on using it in our freshwater lakes here in Switzerland and in the Aegean where I own a home. I suspect that the Klepper is better value for money than the plastic Oru. Hopefully more comfortable too.
@@Michael-0000 Kleppers are a different world than an Oru, but Kleppers can last for decades if you do minimal maintenance. They're not very quick or agile, but they are super stable in rougher waters. They're difficult to flip even when you're trying to flip. I have a number of plastic, wood and composite boats, but I really do enjoy my 30+ year old Klepper. If you enjoy yours half as much as I've enjoyed mine, you got your money's worth.
I started with pump up kayak. Then went to hard shell. Then as the weight got to me (to get it on the car roof) i googled and purchased pla s for skin on frame kayaks. And built my next 3 boats. Lighter than hard shell. Equal performance to any 4m boat. As light as the blow up. Do it... build your own... lots of options.
@cushy glen I watched UA-cam videos. Cape falcon is brilliant but specialised. And then bought plans from duckworks online. Don't be afraid of having a go. The beauty of wooden boats are you can modify. Or repair or change things easily. Wood is a great medium. I've built 2 kayaks. They work great. And 1 canoe for the kids. 1 advice buy heaps of clamps !
Tahnk you for the comparison. Although the light weight and portability are important to me, once I'm on the water, the experience is key. I much prefer to have comfort and glide and solidity over simplicity. I think I will find solutions for storage that is the most limiting factor for me. I already own a car rack and Hullivators, and a higher priced hardshell with fiberglass is still something I can splurge on to get the most enjoyment.
I haven't had any durability issues with the Oru shell (Haven model) but the problems come in the connection additions have shown notable wear coming upon three years (stitching, support bar, plastic seat connection point, strapping/plastic cracking). Still, it has been a joy to access many local water points
Ever checked out a Tucktec? I was ready to buy an Oru to finally add a foldable kayak to my collection, but the Tucktec seemed to have better durability (and I could buy almost four of them for the same price as an Oru). Now I'm getting ready to order a 10ft Tucktec.
That ORU kayak reminds me of the folding green plastic funnel things you buy to fill leaf bags. I would rather lug the eddyline on the subway than be on the water in that thing. lol
I mean, these are two different classes of kayak on top of being hard shell vs foldable.. Not really a fair comparison. The inlet is an open, wide, recreational flat bottom calm water kayak essentially like a sit on top kayak, where as the sky10 is just a short touring, thin, performance based sit inside kayak. A perfectly fair comparison would have been the sky 10 vs the Bay ST or some sit on top vs the inlet. The only thing that's similar between these two is the length. It would even be more fair to compare the sky10 to the Coast XT being that its also a 32lb performance touring kayak and fits in an SUV.
12:20 he describes why he did this comparison and I totally agree, if you have a garage or somewhere to store a hard shell kayak then it’d not be worth buying the Oru, both fit inside his suv.
We have an Oru beach as well as two sit-on-tops and a Liquid Logic XP9. Can fit the LL, Oru, and 2 people inside a Forester or RAV4. We aren’t getting younger - though when the kids come to visit we need all the boats.
Thanks for this comparison. What I'd really like to know tough is how a standard hardshell like this Eddyline compares to a modular system such as the Point 65 Mercury or the Natseq. They seem like an interesting option, as they are easier to store and transport than a conventional kayak, but quicker to set up than an inflatable or most folding kayaks and possibly more enjoyable on the water. Do you have any thoughts you could share? Would be grateful for any advice.
Great video. I have been thinking about an Oru. I live in a city apartment and drive a 2door jeep. I have a beautiful city river outside I would love to get on more often and am often in north country and would love something to paddle and fish from. I used an inflatable for a bit, but it was awful. Set up and breakdown was a pain and it paddled worse.
I have heard several people loose their ORU to a leak at the fold line. It’s not a forever boat!! But you can also transport a larger ORU than the inlet…. So this isn’t a fair comparison depending how you view the subject
think the bayst oru would be a much better comparison. i love mine. but i also bought it for the purpose of i don't have roof racks and live in an apartment. which is what the oru is made for. a better apple to apple would be the oru vs the tucktec
This is an interesting, but maybe unfair comparison. The two kayaks were designed for different purposes. The Eddyline is a beginner performance kayak and Oru is an open recreational boat. Comparing a hardshell kayak with an open cockpit would be more fair. I have an Oru, a garage and SUV (and other kayaks too). I bought the Oru because it fits in a backpack. It can be checked as luggage on a plane and can be carried into backcountry paddling areas. There are other good things and concerns that you didn't address. Concerns: is the fact that after you paddle, you need to clean it right away. The corrugated channels can also get some water in them, but you learn ways to prevent that with experience. You also have to be careful handling the kayak since the hull is thin. Kind of like a Kevlar boat. Advantage: If you are paddling in a popular area and see another Oru on the water, you've made a new friend. They are such distinctive looking boats, that they stand out. We all paddle over to each other and chat. I've coined the term the "Oru Ahoy". In all the years I've been kayaking, I've never seen that happen with other brands.
I would like to see you compare a Bay ST vs. the sky 10 - The Bay is a much more comparable boat, closed cockpit, has the 5 points of contact, is longer and narrower, (12'3"x25") so it tracks better, and weighs only 26lbs. It doesn't pack down quite as small, but it does fit in the back of my hatchback. I'd love to see what you think about that model vs. the hardshell.
For context. I chose Tucktec over the Oru for 1) Affordability and 2) durability because the material is tougher. Curious on your opinion based upon your expertise.
I bought an Oru Inlet so I can actually get out on the water. You see I have a Honda Accord and a Jeep Wrangler, I also own a Old Town canoe which I can’t lift onto top of Jeep by myself. I don’t have roof racks on the Honda so that’s out. So that’s why I bought the Inlet. Tell you the truth it’s more like a canoe than a kayak with the wide open cockpit. Lots of room for fishing poles and to take my dog out with me. She’s a smaller dog and fits, I couldn’t see bringing her in a traditional kayak, there’s no room.
I'm new to your channel, and have been watching lots of your videos, finding them really helpful. Thank you for your videos. This one too was very informative and leans me toward a 10' hardshell; however, I think a more fair comparison would be with the Oru Bay kayak. Yes, it is a 12' kayak, but the packed size is still just as portable as a 10' hardshell and it is in the same price range as the Sky10. Would the added length and more traditional closed cockpit make up for some of the deficiencies of the Inlet?
You're also the perfect person to help choose between the Oru Inlet and the similarly priced, best kayak under $500, the pelican Mustang 100X. Would you same choice for the hard shell?
Only thing I could see those being worth the money is if you were a hardcore mountain pond fisherman, I’m 225 so there’s that issue too. But man that’s a lot of money for what you get, I can’t see people using it for an hr comfortably.
I’m 5’8 at 190 and find myself a bit heavy for the sky 10. I was impressed on how it handled 220. Edit… maybe better to say surprised it could handle 220 lbs.
It’s hand built molded carbonlite, similar to fiberglass. It can take it. But it’s such a fine looking boat I tend to take a little extra care to keep it that way.
I was REALLY confused when you began to pull the eddyline out of the hold and said "compared to the eddyline skyLARK" and paused the video to do a bunch of vigorous googling of interior lengths of specific vehicles. came back even more confused since I confirmed what I knew to be true (the skylark isn't gonna fit inside a vehicle) to unpause the video and immediately see it says "sky 10" on the boat. granted, it says sky 10 in the description, but I clearly didn't read that and just launched straight into the video. I have a rio and ain't no way that boat is fitting inside my crosstrek (or a traverse for that matter)
I’m seeing more and more that people are buying things based on transportation and storage and not on how they paddle. The whole reason to buy a kayak is to go paddling and have great adventures.
I've fit a 9.5 ft hardshell kayak inside a Gen 2 Prius. So you don't "need" and folding kayak if drive a Prius. I even had 2 sit on tops made for adults inside my Prius once. That drive wasn't really fun though lol.
I think it's worth noting that the Sky 10 is $500 more than the Inlet. More than 50% more money. Setting aside the portability question, I think I'd be disappointed if a $1400 kayak didn't outperform a $900 kayak.
For under $100, you can very easily upgrade the seat and footpegs in the Oru Inlet to bring its outfitting in line with the Sky 10's. (The Jackson Sweet Cheeks 200 cushion is a vast improvement). Personally, I think the Oru Bay ST would have been a better comparable for the Sky 10. It's decked, the beam is 25" to the Sky 10's 26", and the weight is still 4lbs lower. You're not getting portability that's quite as insane as the Inlet, but it's still amazing compared to a hardshell boat.
Saw some old lady in the foldable cool don't need some high end kayak most people I see on the water have just super budget ones and after this yr just being there on water in the cheapest ones is better than. Sitting at home
Personally, I will not feel safe in a folding kayak. If it was not possible for me to have a hard shell kayak I will prefer going in places that I can rent one rather than kayaking in a folding kayak.
In the past a foldable kayak generally meant a take apart skin on frame kayak. Most it not all had blow up air bladders - Kleepers, Feathercrafts, etc. These boats are very stable. That Oru is something I wouldn't touch.
It would have been nice to have someone actually try to abuse the oru. I want to see if it could handle a simple river not a lake and other real life situations. Basically just figure since know one wants to try that and all the youtubers are getting a “free” product they’re basically just sponsored at that point by oru. Need more real reviews and real life experiences.
As much as I love the concept, It looks a bit like a solution looking for a problem. Hard to see why it's better than a good inflatable. Most the people I see in inflatables haven't even got a good one, they are not much better than a childs toy, and their pumps are either handpumps, or super slow noisy things running off a cigar lighter. If they wanted to upgrade, they have plenty of quality options, while keeping all the benefits. Some people just want to be on the water, and really are not that concerned about what they are on. Others love Kayaks, it's two different things, I think. Hard to see where the fold up fits into all that, especially when you look at some of the collapsible skin of frame kayaks.
Comfort is king. If it's not comfortable, you won't use it. Longevity is another player in the game. If it won't hold up, you wasted your money. Hardshell boats are more comfortable and last longer.
If you have a car with 4 doors and a garage or can store your 10ft kayak etc inside on the wall or etc. get a hardshell, You don’t need a roof rack to transport your kayak locally even far distance. Foldable and inflatable kayaks are just money pissed away.
Rubbish. When I had tendinitis I couldn’t lift a 16’ kayak, the Oru was a god send and I still use it when I can’t be bothered with hauling heavy gear, and that’s frequently these days.
@@coppershark1973 oru kayaks suck they have 0 performance and over time they will break at latches and material will become weak from too much bending. The sky 10 is only 30 pounds with performance cant beat that.
I use my foldable Tucktec on flat water ponds for fishing. Works great! Sold the hardshell because it was a PIA to carry around. I'm getting older and don't do crazy water, so for me, the foldable works.
As far as a portability shootout, I would really have liked to see the Oru versus a comparably priced inflatable kayak.
Piggyback a Tucktec kayak in there too while youre at it
The quality inflatables are pretty heavy. Up until 1.5 years ago I worked for REI and the ones we sold (I forget the brand at the moment) were around 70 pounds.
You hit the nail on the head with “for $1000 you are paying for portability” thats what you are getting, and everything in kayaking is a trade off. You are trading off portability. The Sky 10 is thermoformed kayak that is going to perform significantly better. The one thing you missed with the Oru, is it is bought by a lot of people who say “I can’t lift a kayak onto the roof of my car” Great comparison though..
Agreed. " Oru versus a comparably priced inflatable kayak."
And that kayak would be the Sea Eagle Razorlite, probably the Inlet's biggest competitor in it's price range of portable kayaks.
I choose the Razorlite, but have followed groups on the ORU to check them out and especially the Inlet and now new Lake model.
There are pros & cons to the Inlet vs the Razorlite.
The pros of the Inlet are: It's only 20 lbs vs 35 lbs.
Very fast setup time & tear down time
It's light enough to back pack to a remote pond.
The pros of the Razorlite are:
More durable. I've seen a ton of Inlets break from many posts about them.
ORU has recently improved the fearings, which was one of the causes.
The Razorlite offers better performance & better glide. Noticeably above the Inlet, probably a little below the hard shell shown.
The Razorlite is safer. ORU's, especially the Inlet, are known to fill with water from improper setup or broken fearings. Countless people have posted about this. And when they fill, you can't paddle them back. You have to swim back with the boat. And forget about re-entry if you flipped, it's extremely difficult for most people. The person that ran the ORU FB group destroyed their more expensive model attempting a self-rescue practice.
The Razorlite is more comfortable than the Inlet.
The Razorlite has way more storage for camping or fishing gear than the Inlet and the weight capacity is 500 lbs.
Cons of the Razorlite:
While it's about the fastest inflatable to setup, which has taken me as little as 3 mins 20 seconds, it's slow to pack up. 35 lbs from the car to the water is fine for me, but some people like woman would prefer lighter. And taking the Razorlite to a remote pond is out for me.
While I'm happy with my choice of the Razorlite on a normal day, for the past 3 1/2 weeks almost every day has been threatening with a mix of dark clouds. In weather like that, I'd like to have something to just quickly throw in the water and paddle close to the launch in case I need to fly out of there due to the weather. So I haven't felt like going most of this month. If I had an ORU Inlet or Lake, I'd be more likely to go for a quick paddle on days like these because it's less work and I can get back in my car faster when I'm dodging lightning or rain. I'm on the fence of adding an Inlet or Lake to my kayak collection to have something to quickly through in & out of the water, but for the other reasons I mentioned, I'm hesitant to buy an ORU. I have Sea Eagles in great condition that have been used hundreds of times and almost 15 years old. I don't an Inlet would last long.
Also note, Aquglide has a brand new inflatable kayak that is just 15 lbs! It costs a couple hundred dollars more and is approx half as durable as the Razorlite and other $1000 inflatable kayaks. Maybe closer in durability to the Inlet? Performance of the Aquaglide is a little below the Razorlite, but probably closer to the Inlet, and considerably better performance on flatwater than Packraft.
Sky 10 for how much.
Love my Oru. Took it out on 20 trips, 10 states, and 2 Great Lakes in season 1. Took it along on a family camping trip (only have a little space to pack it) and cross country strapped to a motorcycle. Hit mountain lakes and desert canyons. Couldn’t have done the trip with a hard shell.
Exactly. Perfect case use.
Long time kayaker here. I've owned the Oru Coast XT 16' touring boat for a few years - as well as a dozen+ RM, fiberglass, and wood rec and sea kayaks over the years. The Oru boats aren't a great performance value compared to normal kayaks, but the easy storage/portability aspect gives em immense value and the best choice for urban dwellers who still want paddling performance. Although I do own a garage and SUV with roof racks and paddle my 17' hand built sea kayak, I still use my Oru Coast half the time, due to the lightness convenience, and the security of being able to hide it in the trunk.
Hi, great video, I’ve had a Oru Inlet for over 3 years, I can never look at a stretch of water again without wishing I could get the Oru Inlet onto it. Maintenance issues I’ve addressed myself, first I replaced the broken bit of plastic anchoring the bungee cord holding the seat, with a knot & that worked well. Now I have experienced the deterioration of the metal rivets in the black bow & stern covers, now replaced with cable ties. No way am I giving up this beautiful boat.
Please review the TUCKTEC folding kayak. maybe even a comparison video against the ORU.
I have owned an Oru inlet for 4 years and we love it. We use it in the harbor where our sailboat is docked, around small ponds and lakes, and the fox river near our house. It's not a touring kayak and it won't last you 35 years but it's so portable you will end up using it more than you think. We throw it in the car anytime we are going somewhere that is near water "just in case" and it gets a ton of use. It is super easy to set up and so light the kids have no issues maneuvering or hauling it on shore. It is not designed to be an all day kayak but for a couple hours it's very comfortable and it paddles better than you would expect.
I have two wooden touring style kayaks that I love and of course paddle nicer than a folder, but I am telling you being able to just toss it in the car and not mess with racks and straps and worry about it being exposed to theft or weather is great. I HIGHLY recommend even if you have a hard side to get one for times you don't wanna mess with transporting a big award 12-17 footer.
Great video Dan. Loved it. I have had an Oru Inlet for two months and am doing a lot of paddling. I bought it very the exact reasons you mentioned. I also don't have roof racks at this stage. I love my Oru but also suffer from it's poor seating position and have to keep moving my legs to avoid them falling asleep while paddling 😅😅. Over time I'll invest in a hard-shell kayak as I extend my distances and seek a faster boat. In the meantime the Oru gets me out there which is what I bought it for. Thanks mate for your great videos. Stat safe. Kev in Australia 😎
Love your videos ❤ I spent the last three years vigorously exploring, every portable and folding kayak I could find. I was exceptionally saddened to learn that ORU kayak had enormous, technical support customer service, and other issues. REI used to sell them, and I was able to access a bunch of the customer reviews that frankly made me run screaming. MANY OF THE ORU OWNERS REPORTED WEAR PROBLEMS TOO ! (Your instinct on that question was excellent 💪) They also hammer you on shipping even if you return it within the time window. When I confronted them on the issue they became negotiable but to me it was NOT the way to start a relationship.
I also explored the Pakayak and unfortunately I found that the design of it made it undesirable in the water and I WORSE I also experienced a leak. While that leak may have been "a one in 1 million" for the amount of money it cost just was not worth it to me.
I think the simplicity of the 10 foot Eddyline is the only way to go. I explored many other "portable" kayaks as well , at all price ranges and to me, the bottom line is nothing in the portable world has the smoothness, the gliding ability, and the reliability of the traditional hard shells like eddyline. Just my opinion for what it is worth. 😊
true... except now you need 21 square feet of space to put a kayak. you could fit a 16' oru coast in a closet at an equal 32lbs and 6 sq ft. i dont own either but that is the actual draw of oru. you dont have to compare apples to apples cause you can fit watermelons where the other apple fits.
I'm 220 pounds. Will this not float me?
Interesting comparison. Seen a few folks paddling the ORU (who said it was fun) but I LOVE my Sky 10 (3rd boat and possibly the last upgrade) ... 5'4", 170 fits perfectly, and isn't too heavy for this 68 y/o gramma 😉
I have an haven TT that I have owned for 2+ years and I love it. I have been taking it out weekly over the summer mornings in Texas.
I do find myself banging my hands on the sides of the boat when I try to paddle fast.
I had to get Oru's upgraded seat cushion.
I have never felt back pain like you mentioned but I do find that my but gets fatigued after about 90 mins.
I am able to edge in the HavenTT and have enough secondary stability that I think I could stand in it.
I do get blown around by wind even with it being a 16ft boat.
I highly recommend.
Skin on Frame folders have made incredible journeys all around the world. I love the skin on frame feel on the water, they are extremely stable and comfortable even in extreme conditions. I own way too many kayaks of every kind but skin on frame folders are my favorite and my go to boats.
For the record nether of these are skin on frames. 🤔
@@HeadwatersKayak Acknowledged but the title of your video is "Folding Kayaks vs Hardshell." The Oru coroplast construction is not what most kayakers would think of first when you say folding kayak.
I like the spotlight being shined on the small stuff, great for apartment dwellers like me. Would love to see some of the inflatable pedal kayaks on the channel too! Fingers crossed that the Airship comes out soon 🤞🏼
Love my Oru Beach. I only walk or cycle. With the backpack I can walk or cycle to different beaches. And living in a flat, I just don't have the storage for a hard shell.
Glad you found a way to enjoy paddling that works for you. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thank you for the excellent review. I enjoy my our kayaks but worry about customer complaints at the BBB website, fragility, and self rescue limitations.
This is by far the best review of the Oru I have ever seen. I watched a ton of videos about it but this one mentions a lot that no one else has even hinted at.
Yes, i know it's portable but what else? This is the only video that will really give you that information.
Thanks for the great review! These are the two I had narrowed down to a couple of years ago, and with a previous review you had of a Sky 10, I went that route. I love my sky 10 and it’s perfect for me! I would love to see you put the sky 10 in a variety of SUVs - - particularly a Forrester! It would be nice to see how you are sliding it in and either putting it on its side or any pointers as far as the front window goes!
I love my ORU. This is my 3rd year and I use it all the time in rivers and lakes. I've had the Inlet with a few modifications to improve comfort and performance which I do for pretty much everything. It's absolutely perfect. The inlet weighs only 20 lbs which is prefect with me weighing only 110. I get far more use out of this than I do my hard shell which I just have located at small lake house.
Love seeing these videos, especially year round. Great quality and fair review!
The oru inlet paddles like a bath tub. I agree that the beach glides much better and would be a better comparison to the Eddie line. It takes me longer to setup the oru than 3 minutes because the Clips requires some force to put together. The bottom of the oru can be readily torn if you go over a sharp rock inadvertently which hastened to me when in was far from shore. The big advantage of the oru is that I can fold it up and put it in the trunk of my sedan.
I own both the Oru Lake+ and the Oru Haven TT (their tandem option). I'm a bit too close to the weight limit on the Lake+ (when I started kayaking regularly about 6 months ago I weight about 230, I'm down to 210 now but still with that 250 weight limit I am low in the water) and so I have swamped it a few times. A couple of months ago I switched to using the Haven TT in the single paddler configuration (it can do tandem or single) on my regular kayaking. I've taken it out on the choppy Columbia river (setting out from Rooster Rock area) and a week ago I paddled 8 miles up river on the Willamette with it and then 8 miles back downriver to my starting spot. I currently take it out three days a week and it's been a great product to get me into paddling! However the maintenance is an issue with how much I'm using it. I've recently gotten a small hole in the Haven TT and so on that 16 mile trip I had to stop about three times to dump the water out (the bilge pump was taking too long with how much water I took on). I've also had bolts give out that I've had to replace, and the seat back often slides down on me.
It's a good kayak, but I think for as much paddling as I'm doing I want to upgrade to an Eddyline Sikta XT most likely, I think the amount of time it takes to put it on to and take off of my car will not be any more time than it takes to assemble the Oru Kayak. I drive a Dodge Charger so I don't even have to lift it up all that high. I'll keep the Haven TT around though for when I take my kids or wife with me kayaking, which we've done several times now as well.
I will say my experience in both Oru Kayaks have been better paddling than the conventional cheap rotomolded kayaks sold at places like Wal-Mart. It's also been much better than inflatable kayaks. It glides a lot more smoothly up river than those, but I think the Eddyline will significantly improve my speed and range. I always start out kayaking up river and then return back downriver to my starting point.
Then there are the Klepper and Longhaul folding kayaks. They're not light. They're not cheap. However, the are pretty bomber and can last for decades.
My Klepper Aerius 2 is about 32 years old. It's a 17 foot tandem. I bought it when it was about 20 years old, and have put a few thousand miles on it on some epic long trips.
These are legit folding kayaks. People have made voyages across oceans in Kleppers.
@@HeadwatersKayak My A2 isn't quick at all due to its weight and width, but it can comfortably cruise at over 4 mph with two paddlers and two hundred pounds of gear. The sail-plan options also offer an ability to move along at 5 mph while making a sandwich.
I'd argue the biggest benefit is the ability to pack it up on a plane.
Sadly, the old style folding kayaks have fallen out of favor for some time. Folbot and Feathercraft went under in the last ten years or so.
@@wisenberI was in the market for a light, folding kayak and seriously considered the Oru Beach or Coast XT. Just pulled the trigger on an almost brand new Klepper Aerius 490 Quattro (single) which cost 20% less than a new Oru Coast. Very different craft with the Klepper weighing twice as much (30 kg). Planning on using it in our freshwater lakes here in Switzerland and in the Aegean where I own a home. I suspect that the Klepper is better value for money than the plastic Oru. Hopefully more comfortable too.
@@Michael-0000 Kleppers are a different world than an Oru, but Kleppers can last for decades if you do minimal maintenance.
They're not very quick or agile, but they are super stable in rougher waters.
They're difficult to flip even when you're trying to flip.
I have a number of plastic, wood and composite boats, but I really do enjoy my 30+ year old Klepper.
If you enjoy yours half as much as I've enjoyed mine, you got your money's worth.
I started with pump up kayak.
Then went to hard shell.
Then as the weight got to me (to get it on the car roof) i googled and purchased pla s for skin on frame kayaks. And built my next 3 boats. Lighter than hard shell. Equal performance to any 4m boat. As light as the blow up.
Do it... build your own... lots of options.
@cushy glen I watched UA-cam videos. Cape falcon is brilliant but specialised. And then bought plans from duckworks online. Don't be afraid of having a go. The beauty of wooden boats are you can modify. Or repair or change things easily. Wood is a great medium. I've built 2 kayaks. They work great. And 1 canoe for the kids. 1 advice buy heaps of clamps !
I have the Sky10 and love it, but I am looking at the Oru to put inside my campervan when I go camping & paddling.
They have an upgrade gel seat available now, supposedly helps the comfort....
Would love to check that out!
Tahnk you for the comparison. Although the light weight and portability are important to me, once I'm on the water, the experience is key. I much prefer to have comfort and glide and solidity over simplicity. I think I will find solutions for storage that is the most limiting factor for me. I already own a car rack and Hullivators, and a higher priced hardshell with fiberglass is still something I can splurge on to get the most enjoyment.
I bought a Tucktec instead of Oru. TT is harder, more durable, and works great for pond fishing. I absolutely love the portability!
Take a look at sea eagle kayaks.
Thanks for your reviews Dan.
I haven't had any durability issues with the Oru shell (Haven model) but the problems come in the connection additions have shown notable wear coming upon three years (stitching, support bar, plastic seat connection point, strapping/plastic cracking). Still, it has been a joy to access many local water points
Ever checked out a Tucktec? I was ready to buy an Oru to finally add a foldable kayak to my collection, but the Tucktec seemed to have better durability (and I could buy almost four of them for the same price as an Oru). Now I'm getting ready to order a 10ft Tucktec.
Let me know how you like it. I’ve seen them around but I’ve never tired one.
Interested in it as well. Did you end up purchasing? What did you think?
That ORU kayak reminds me of the folding green plastic funnel things you buy to fill leaf bags. I would rather lug the eddyline on the subway than be on the water in that thing. lol
Lol 😂 you’re probably walk faster carrying the Eddyline on land than that Oru in the water
I have an ORU and they clip along just great.
Thanks for this video, I just got a Tandem Haven " for my kids"
I fit a 9.8 kayak inside my Honda fit with the hatch tied down! Tho I’ve been looking into foldable tho for better transportation.
Same situation here with my fit ❤
I mean, these are two different classes of kayak on top of being hard shell vs foldable.. Not really a fair comparison. The inlet is an open, wide, recreational flat bottom calm water kayak essentially like a sit on top kayak, where as the sky10 is just a short touring, thin, performance based sit inside kayak. A perfectly fair comparison would have been the sky 10 vs the Bay ST or some sit on top vs the inlet.
The only thing that's similar between these two is the length. It would even be more fair to compare the sky10 to the Coast XT being that its also a 32lb performance touring kayak and fits in an SUV.
12:20 he describes why he did this comparison and I totally agree, if you have a garage or somewhere to store a hard shell kayak then it’d not be worth buying the Oru, both fit inside his suv.
We have an Oru beach as well as two sit-on-tops and a Liquid Logic XP9. Can fit the LL, Oru, and 2 people inside a Forester or RAV4. We aren’t getting younger - though when the kids come to visit we need all the boats.
Thanks for this comparison. What I'd really like to know tough is how a standard hardshell like this Eddyline compares to a modular system such as the Point 65 Mercury or the Natseq. They seem like an interesting option, as they are easier to store and transport than a conventional kayak, but quicker to set up than an inflatable or most folding kayaks and possibly more enjoyable on the water. Do you have any thoughts you could share? Would be grateful for any advice.
Point 65 are ok, but limited in hull design. They feel bulkier and slower on the water. So more similar paddling to the Oru.
Great video. I have been thinking about an Oru. I live in a city apartment and drive a 2door jeep. I have a beautiful city river outside I would love to get on more often and am often in north country and would love something to paddle and fish from. I used an inflatable for a bit, but it was awful. Set up and breakdown was a pain and it paddled worse.
Hi , did you buy an ORU and fish with it? What did you think?
I have heard several people loose their ORU to a leak at the fold line. It’s not a forever boat!! But you can also transport a larger ORU than the inlet…. So this isn’t a fair comparison depending how you view the subject
think the bayst oru would be a much better comparison. i love mine. but i also bought it for the purpose of i don't have roof racks and live in an apartment. which is what the oru is made for. a better apple to apple would be the oru vs the tucktec
This is an interesting, but maybe unfair comparison. The two kayaks were designed for different purposes. The Eddyline is a beginner performance kayak and Oru is an open recreational boat. Comparing a hardshell kayak with an open cockpit would be more fair. I have an Oru, a garage and SUV (and other kayaks too). I bought the Oru because it fits in a backpack. It can be checked as luggage on a plane and can be carried into backcountry paddling areas. There are other good things and concerns that you didn't address.
Concerns: is the fact that after you paddle, you need to clean it right away. The corrugated channels can also get some water in them, but you learn ways to prevent that with experience. You also have to be careful handling the kayak since the hull is thin. Kind of like a Kevlar boat.
Advantage: If you are paddling in a popular area and see another Oru on the water, you've made a new friend. They are such distinctive looking boats, that they stand out. We all paddle over to each other and chat. I've coined the term the "Oru Ahoy". In all the years I've been kayaking, I've never seen that happen with other brands.
I think another interesting and more apples to apples comparison would have been with the Pakayak.
I would like to see you compare a Bay ST vs. the sky 10 - The Bay is a much more comparable boat, closed cockpit, has the 5 points of contact, is longer and narrower, (12'3"x25") so it tracks better, and weighs only 26lbs. It doesn't pack down quite as small, but it does fit in the back of my hatchback. I'd love to see what you think about that model vs. the hardshell.
That would compare more to a Skylark I would think. But yes if Oru wants to send me more kayaks I’d love to compare them.
I wouldn't get an Oru unless I couldn't haul a hard shell. If that was the case I would buy one as the inflatables seem like to much of a hassle.
Do you have any experience with the Tucktec folding Kayak. Would be curious to see you review the Oru vs the Tucktec in a similar manner.
For context. I chose Tucktec over the Oru for 1) Affordability and 2) durability because the material is tougher.
Curious on your opinion based upon your expertise.
I bought an Oru Inlet so I can actually get out on the water. You see I have a Honda Accord and a Jeep Wrangler, I also own a Old Town canoe which I can’t lift onto top of Jeep by myself. I don’t have roof racks on the Honda so that’s out. So that’s why I bought the Inlet. Tell you the truth it’s more like a canoe than a kayak with the wide open cockpit. Lots of room for fishing poles and to take my dog out with me. She’s a smaller dog and fits, I couldn’t see bringing her in a traditional kayak, there’s no room.
I'm new to your channel, and have been watching lots of your videos, finding them really helpful. Thank you for your videos. This one too was very informative and leans me toward a 10' hardshell; however, I think a more fair comparison would be with the Oru Bay kayak. Yes, it is a 12' kayak, but the packed size is still just as portable as a 10' hardshell and it is in the same price range as the Sky10. Would the added length and more traditional closed cockpit make up for some of the deficiencies of the Inlet?
You're also the perfect person to help choose between the Oru Inlet and the similarly priced, best kayak under $500, the pelican Mustang 100X. Would you same choice for the hard shell?
I need some Headwaters stickers!
Done!
Also you could compare one to an aircraft carrier, that would make as much sense as this video
Been trying but the Navy is being hard to work with.
I ditched the foldable for a pakayak. The hardshell pakayak is 1000% better performing and still just as portable.
Curious what the shortest length hard-shell you are fully comfortable in - I have similar dimensions to you. 😊
I paddle a lot of 10 footers comfortably. The sky 10 is just on the small side. The Dagger Axis 10.5 fits me awesome.
@@HeadwatersKayak Got it and thx !
Have you tried the Tucktec?
I have not.
Eddyline will last for years and have good resale value.
Only thing I could see those being worth the money is if you were a hardcore mountain pond fisherman, I’m 225 so there’s that issue too. But man that’s a lot of money for what you get, I can’t see people using it for an hr comfortably.
The Oru produces big waves, bet i can surf on it 😅
I’m 5’8 at 190 and find myself a bit heavy for the sky 10. I was impressed on how it handled 220. Edit… maybe better to say surprised it could handle 220 lbs.
Felt like Cinderella‘s overweight sister trying to fit into the glass slipper
Hmm, wonder if a sky 10 will fit in my VW Tiguan?
I’m not 100% sure. Never put it one in a Tiguan. A Stellar S14 three piece would for sure.
How about folding vs. inflatable.
I’d go with inflatable way before folding plastic.
I’d like to do that review someday too. I’d take my Aquaglide Chelan over this for sure.
Can the eddyline take a beating on the rocks like big box rec kayaks?
It’s hand built molded carbonlite, similar to fiberglass. It can take it. But it’s such a fine looking boat I tend to take a little extra care to keep it that way.
Look at Bote boat. It's is a foldable boat. The bote can use a small motor
BOTES are heavy and also expensive. Friend has one and hardly ever takes it out
I was REALLY confused when you began to pull the eddyline out of the hold and said "compared to the eddyline skyLARK" and paused the video to do a bunch of vigorous googling of interior lengths of specific vehicles. came back even more confused since I confirmed what I knew to be true (the skylark isn't gonna fit inside a vehicle) to unpause the video and immediately see it says "sky 10" on the boat. granted, it says sky 10 in the description, but I clearly didn't read that and just launched straight into the video. I have a rio and ain't no way that boat is fitting inside my crosstrek (or a traverse for that matter)
I must have misspoke! Didn’t even catch that. Sky 10
You ever tried a micro poke boat?
No I’ve seen one, but it was old! Is Poke Boat still around?
I have the Oru lake, it is absolutely wonderful on land and absolutely useless in the water. It steers like the wild teacup ride at Disney.
I’m seeing more and more that people are buying things based on transportation and storage and not on how they paddle. The whole reason to buy a kayak is to go paddling and have great adventures.
Hard shell all the way. I load mine on top of my suv
So my oru is 8 years old and fine I need to get new parts but for some of it .I cramp up all time for some reason im 23
Thanks for the feedback.
I've fit a 9.5 ft hardshell kayak inside a Gen 2 Prius. So you don't "need" and folding kayak if drive a Prius. I even had 2 sit on tops made for adults inside my Prius once. That drive wasn't really fun though lol.
I think it's worth noting that the Sky 10 is $500 more than the Inlet. More than 50% more money. Setting aside the portability question, I think I'd be disappointed if a $1400 kayak didn't outperform a $900 kayak.
Fair assessment. These where the two I had. I think it tells the story well enough.
For under $100, you can very easily upgrade the seat and footpegs in the Oru Inlet to bring its outfitting in line with the Sky 10's. (The Jackson Sweet Cheeks 200 cushion is a vast improvement).
Personally, I think the Oru Bay ST would have been a better comparable for the Sky 10. It's decked, the beam is 25" to the Sky 10's 26", and the weight is still 4lbs lower. You're not getting portability that's quite as insane as the Inlet, but it's still amazing compared to a hardshell boat.
Saw some old lady in the foldable cool don't need some high end kayak most people I see on the water have just super budget ones and after this yr just being there on water in the cheapest ones is better than. Sitting at home
Personally, I will not feel safe in a folding kayak. If it was not possible for me to have a hard shell kayak I will prefer going in places that I can rent one rather than kayaking in a folding kayak.
In the past a foldable kayak generally meant a take apart skin on frame kayak. Most it not all had blow up air bladders - Kleepers, Feathercrafts, etc. These boats are very stable. That Oru is something I wouldn't touch.
Can I fish out of the eddyline?
The sky 10 is pretty stable for its size so I don't see why you couldn't safely fish out of it
How much
It would have been nice to have someone actually try to abuse the oru. I want to see if it could handle a simple river not a lake and other real life situations. Basically just figure since know one wants to try that and all the youtubers are getting a “free” product they’re basically just sponsored at that point by oru. Need more real reviews and real life experiences.
The Beach LT is a much better kayak than the Inlet (IMO)
Where are you? Its pretty.
Whiskeytown Lake Redding Ca
As much as I love the concept, It looks a bit like a solution looking for a problem.
Hard to see why it's better than a good inflatable.
Most the people I see in inflatables haven't even got a good one, they are not much better than a childs toy, and their pumps are either handpumps, or super slow noisy things running off a cigar lighter.
If they wanted to upgrade, they have plenty of quality options, while keeping all the benefits.
Some people just want to be on the water, and really are not that concerned about what they are on.
Others love Kayaks, it's two different things, I think.
Hard to see where the fold up fits into all that, especially when you look at some of the collapsible skin of frame kayaks.
Comfort is king. If it's not comfortable, you won't use it. Longevity is another player in the game. If it won't hold up, you wasted your money. Hardshell boats are more comfortable and last longer.
If you have a car with 4 doors and a garage or can store your 10ft kayak etc inside on the wall or etc. get a hardshell, You don’t need a roof rack to transport your kayak locally even far distance. Foldable and inflatable kayaks are just money pissed away.
Rubbish. When I had tendinitis I couldn’t lift a 16’ kayak, the Oru was a god send and I still use it when I can’t be bothered with hauling heavy gear, and that’s frequently these days.
@@coppershark1973 oru kayaks suck they have 0 performance and over time they will break at latches and material will become weak from too much bending. The sky 10 is only 30 pounds with performance cant beat that.
1000 bucks 😂😂😂
It's a oru POOL TOY
Oru bankrupt
You'd be insane to take that folding paper cup thing on any water except a tiny, dead-calm, bathwater-warm pond. Get a real kayak, not a gimmicky toy.
I use my foldable Tucktec on flat water ponds for fishing. Works great! Sold the hardshell because it was a PIA to carry around. I'm getting older and don't do crazy water, so for me, the foldable works.