I've always found this evolution to be very interesting. How the medieval sword survived for centuries, only with some additional bars or shells. English basket hilts, schiavonas, walloons, pallaschs, "forte-épées" in France, etc... they deserve to be known better, to point out that the wide cut and thrust blades of medieval swords never really went outdated. In fact, some straight heavy cavalry sabers from the 19th century (called "lattes" in France) kept that lineage alive.
On Cuts: Yes, cuts with the rapier happen. The later Italian, particularly the Venitian and Padovan schools emphasized them as attacks in second intention from close measure or as a reposte. But there's a fairly clear connection between the earlier Bolognese that helped define the cuts by angle, and the cuts instructed in a text such as Capoferro that use the earlier defined terms as if they were then common knowledge, instead spending the details on tempo and measure. The Spanish "Diestro" loved their cuts, but also emphasized a slightly shorter and broader blade to employ them. On the rapier shown in the video: Yep, that's a Hanwei practice blade. Very thin in cross section and treated to be flexible and springy, because getting hit with the end of a chunk of rebar just hurts. An original, or a reproduction functional blade, is as stiff as you'd expect a sword to be. Just enough flex and spring to not be brittle. On the evolution of the hilt: I suspect parallel development. Some swordmaker has the thought. "Ya know, if I presented the point extended as a threat in guard, I could keep the other guy farther away from me. I should do something about keeping my hand intact without having to wear gauntlets everywhere."
I've always been fascinated by the evolution of cut and thrust swords over the years, particularly the differences that exist in their usage, despite the many similarities. There seems to be some notable differences aside from the obvious variations in hilt design, blade length, single vs. double edged, curved vs. straight blade, etc., most notably in the approach to footwork, the preferred guards/wards, preferred tempo, etc. Lots of variation among what are, in many ways, quite similar weapons.
I have a hypothesis as to why the rapier with the elaborate handguard was developed. It was developed to counter Phillipine and South east Asian fighting techniques. Look at the timeframe of the rapier development. When did the Spaniards come across the Phillipine Islands? Rapiers use thrusting techniques to counter the circular cutting strikes and defenses of FMA. If you wish, you could contact experts in FMA or SE Asian fighting styles ( ie Silat) and spar with them, comparing their style with the Arming sword and Side sword.
I think rapiers, spadroons and the like should be grouped together under the name "pointy fuck you stick", and looked at as different models of the same stabby idea.
haha yep, I agree. Two classes of sword: cutty stick and stabby stick. Further refinement (if you really think it's necessary) you can have bigguns and littluns in either class. Move over, Oakeshott!
Fernando Mercado over priced for a CNC machined sword, everybody rates Albion so highly, they.don't even do a good job on the sharpening. You might as well get a custom sword from a smith if you're willing to pay in the thousands. They are okay but let's not forget they are asking too much for what they offer, I have access to CNC machines in my rented workshop and it takes zero effort or time to actually create a sword blank ready for grinding. They are ripping people off honestly, I wouldn't be able to justify paying more than 400/500 for one of their swords. Might as well go custom if you want to spend grands on a sword.
Arming Sword and Target Shield was also a viable and highly defensive midieval style, particularly for light skirmishers in leather, cloth or light chain, with the shield in an edge-on posture for deflection maneuvers and the sword held back point-up with the crossguard at hip level. Speaking as someone who's trained to use a Schiavona, they are OODLES of fun to use along with being extremely controllable and versatile.
Great video mate! Loved it. I shall watch other vids of yours now. I love swords and sword play, but was not aware of the definitions of the weapons, and you cleared it up for me. Thank you again, I look forward to more videos from you. Cheers from Oregon USA. :)
There’s a 17th century Nassau handbook (it’s Dutch). Which includes fighting with the ‘rappier’, in the images a sword with ring fingers is seen and it is gripped with the finger across the guard. And they wore gloves (not gauntlets of course) with them. So I’d say they definitely had a term to distinguish them from a normal sword... Rapier.
Backsword design kind of makes sense. Hard to imagine getting a strong, edge-aligned cut in with a back edge, and nobody on youtube at least seems to practice such strikes.
+HebaruSan Ive seen a video of Thrand practicing a sort of over head whipping cut in which you turn the blade in the swing to cut with the false edge. I've fiddled with it in my own practice and I can see it delivering a nasty cut and it's pretty damn fast because of the structure of the strike compared to some other cuts.
I watch a lot of your videos and enjoy them. Would you comment on the study: "On Killing, The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" where the studies seemed to show that human instinct was to slash rather than poke even though pokes were more deadly. Also, my ultimate question is whether the additional lethality of a poke factored into the evolution of the rapier, if you could point me to works that address this or comment on this I would be very appreciative.
True, but the word "rapier" comes from somewhere else. Short description from Jared Diamonds Guns, Germs and Steel: "The Rapier with its extra long blade, was developed as a dooming weapon, but became so fashionable in renaissance europe that it was the sword of choice for every aspiring gentleman. The word rapier derives from the spanish word "espara roppera" and that means "dress sword""
Best option is to join a HEMA/Historical fencing class. If you can't then there are training books for longsword and rapier available through Amazon and Freelance Academy Press.
Yes, they are definitely for people not wearing gauntlets. However, we don't know whether they were primarily for civilians therefore, or for soldiers who did not or could not wear gauntlets. So it is dangerous to assume they are civilian swords, as they are shown in paintings used in war also.
Probably the development of the complex guard in "arming sword" is due to the increasing use of the tip for thrusting, which exposes the weapon hand in the move, for example, I've seen drawings on the sword/buckler play in which during a hit you cover your weapon hand with the buckler.
I would generally assume that swords with more hand protection than a simple crossguard with or without side rings developed when people stopped wearing gauntlets made of plate, chain or thick leather.
The backsword was really popular throughout history. Its eventual replacement, the saber, isn't really much different at all. It is a very good design.
Armored gauntlets were not common in civilian life, or very expensive and simple cut to wrist would be disarming. That triggered evolution of the hilt guard.
So the Schiavonna and the Knights of Malta's Grand Master's sword would be considered side swords? Very neat. I've always been very intrigued by these swords. I've got a couple swordsmith friends that make very high end rapiers, but I've always had a soft spot for the side sword. It seems more versatile.
Mason Munts The man speaks portuguese in his profile, dear Mason Munts, do the calculus. Spoiler: most people in southern Brazil have italian/german/polish/ukrainian surnames.
So, I'm a bit unclear on this, but is a basket-hilted broadsword essentially just considered a later-period evolution of the sidesword? Or does it comprise its own lineage? I know there are some Scottish sources that discuss the broadsword proper--are the techniques that much different than, say, Bolognese sidesword? Are there any sources that teach Schiavona, or something more akin to the later basket hilted broadsword from the Continent? Do we just not have any sources discussing them? Were they still used on the Continent? Perhaps in a more military setting? Sorry for the multitude of questions...fascinating topic.
During the 16th century, hilt developments went in various different directions, some of which are connected, some less so. So for example you get cup-hilt rapiers, Pappenheimer types, swept-hilts of various swords and dish hilts all at the same times. The different types of basket hilts of broadswords equally seem to have had sometimes separate and sometimes related lines of development. The English/Scottish/Irish basket hilt seems to have developed more or less in isolation in Britain. The mortuary type hilt seems to have been more connected with Continental models, the Walloon type was found across Europe, the Schiavona seems to have been unique to Venice and the Balkans. In terms of how they were used, the British systems are well documented, but for whatever reasons the Continental basket hilt systems are less documented. I think they were probably not used that much like sideswords, as the guards of sidesword are still very influenced by the need to defend the hand, like medieval systems, whereas the basket hilt systems we do know about tend to confidently hold the hilt forward a lot of the time and use hanging guards extensively.
scholagladiatoria Awesome information, thanks. Simply looking at fencing manuals all the time, I think, gives you a bit of a skewed view of what the history of the sword was actually like. For one thing, these are just the *surviving* manuals, not to mention the fact that they don't really give a ton of information on how swords were used militarily. Once rapiers came to be the dominant dueling weapon, it seems, based on the manuals, as if only George Silver and his fellow Englishmen clung to their beloved short swords ;-). All joking aside, it does seem strange that broad/backsword fencing texts are rather rare outside of Britain, but yet the saber later becomes a quite popular dueling weapon in Italy, etc., and eventually takes over as the dominant military sword throughout Europe. Would you be more inclined to think the theoretical Continental broadsword texts were simply lost to the ages, or that these sword were not used for fencing nearly as much as they appear to have been in in Britain, and were mostly military weapons?
wcropp1 I think it's a fairly complicated issue. In short: broadswords/sabres/backswords are addressed in Continental manuals frequently from about 1790 onwards. From c.1580-c.1660 it's clear that most Continental treatises were concerned with duelling and the duelling weapon was of course predominantly the rapier and then until about 1800 the smallsword. When more military treatises started to be churned out in c.1790 onwards then we see the sabre and broadsword again. So I think the main factor on the Continent is that yes, between about 1580 and 1790 most manuals are concerned with the duelling sword and not the military one. As with everything, there are exceptions though.
Good stuff--thanks for taking the time to respond. I hate to keep pestering you, but this does make me wonder, what do you think made the saber take over as the dominant military sword in the 1800's? Was it the better weapon for the job, or was this more of a fashion trend, or both? I've read that saber hilts allow you to manipulate the blade more freely, and I've seen some sabers with blades that were nearly straight (perhaps more dueling oriented blades), which blurs the lines even more between these military-oriented cut-and-thrust swords. Their variety and relative obscurity in the earlier Continental manuals is partly what makes them so fascinating, though. I suppose history doesn't always fit neatly into a contrived category as we would like it to. Great channel--keep up the good work. Thanks again.
I'd like to ask, though... could a thrust-centric style like Capo Ferro's rapier fighting style be used effectively with a side-sword? It does have cuts, but it stresses thrusts. Being into this whole HEMA thing, I think you've probably seen quite a bit of Capo Ferro before, so you might know the answer to my question...
Yes, there was huge variation amongst rapiers anyway, they varied a lot in terms of length, width, cross-section and cutting capacity. The rapier treatises were supposed to be applicable to a wide range of swords therefore. Though of course some systems may be better or worse with specific rapier/sidesword types.
Jonathan Allen from my experience I agree with this: to correctly apply capoferro's techniques you need a long blade with a hilt that efficiently protect your hand; I would define it a transitional rapier, the kind that stands in between the multiple rings hilt and the cup hilt rapiers
Hi, i was watching your video and i had an epiphany (i dont know if this is the right word, english its not first or even second language). I looked for information about the rapier in my country (spain). And it seems that the word rapier comes from the french rapiere and the spanish ropera that means sidesword... (Ropera from the word ropa that means clothes, then it means to be used at the side of the clothes)
Very nice video, thanks. It closes some gaps in my knowledge about blade weapons. There is still one major question remaining, thogh, where does the "cut&thrust" sword fit in, or is it just a semantical problem?
What is the difference between a sidesword and a basket hilted broadsword? You say that one kind of sidesword is an arming sword with a bit of extra hand protection or a rapier type hilt with an arming sword blade. A basket hilted broadsword seems to be just that, a basket hilt, like the rapier, and a cut and thrust blade, like the arming sword. The backsword seems to be a single edged sidesword. So is the difference in context rather than in the design?
LarsaXL Thing is, a basket hilted broadsword doesn't have the finger rings that are characteristic of sideswords and rapiers. Sideswords, at least examples I've seen, also have more prominant crossguards, while a basket hilt tends not to.
Just bought a rapier from celticwebmerchant for £38! It is described as functioning fencing sword. ( I am not a fencer, yet, but didnt want to buy a wall decoration. Haven't received it yet, but fingers cross still, don't think it can be true, so cheap.
Would the development of hand protection not be more influenced by the carrying (or not) of bucklers, than whether or not sword carrying habits changed?
Hey Matt, great video, informative as always. Question: Are you familiar with the Model 1913 Cavalry "Patton" Saber? Would you say it's more or less like a rapier or a side sword? It's supposedly touted as the best cavalry saber, a specialized thrusting weapon for light cavalry. In your opinion, how to you think it compares to the more common, slightly curved cavalry saber? I ask because I noticed how similar it is to the spadroon, but the blade appears more in line with the estoc or th rapier. Anyways, thank you for your vids I really like your channel.
Then we have the schiavona to add extra confusion but that is only half relevant to the subject. Its relevance lies in it being a military broadsword which is the branch to the side of rapiers.
What would the distinction be between a side sword and a broadsword? EDIT: Should watch the full video first. Though I would like to ask how much overlap the styles of hilts had. Are there any documented "hybrids?"
I own a sword I bought at auction from Wallis and Wallis in the 1970s that was referred to as "a 17th century Swedish rapier". It is actually essentially a sidesword hilt made out of fairly heavy iron bars - S-shaped quillons, finger ring on each side of the blade, one large side loop on each side of the hilt, knucklebow, flat disk pommel ... all mounted to a long backsword blade. Oh yes, and the grip is plain wood - no wire wrap, no covering with leather or sharkskin or anything else, just plain wood. And it is clearly the original grip style because the wood is both old and is also carved with one of those swirly Nordic patterns. Does that help?
Im trying to get more details on the types of Swords carried by the Conquistador Armies... What would the swords that mid 16th century Mercenaries who fought alongside Pizarro's and Cort'es have looked like? ... Side sword? ... or since many were on horseback, were they using something that might look like that Basket Hilted Broadsword shown in the video? ... Perhaps the heavier bladed Rapiers your talking about in the last third of the video?.. I find it odd that there is so little information online about what types of swords were carried by these men.. No where else on the globe were such small groups of men fighting against such superior numbers and coming out the victors... I realize they were fighting against what was essentially a stone age people... Still, 200 against 5000 is some seriously lopsided numbers for what was still mostly hand to hand combat...
Awesome videos!. Could you talk about the evolution of viking swords? i wonder if they changed as much as these, also, i would really like a video on filipino weapons
Do you have any schiavona? Could you do a video on them? What’s the difference between that, a rapier, and a sidesword? Does it have a good compromise between cutting and thrusting, or is it for one particular purpose?
scholagladiatoria In your experience how did the side-sword/basket-hilt broad & backsword perform in duels against rapiers? Was the lack of reach a great disadvantage? Could you compensate for that by hitting away or grabbing the rapier blade with the off hand?
We are based in London, Bradford and Manchester. There are clubs in the Midlands - have a look at the British Federation for Historical Swordplay website.
I knew there was one in Nottingham but here's the thing, I hope I don't offend... but I make this clear beforehand everytime that I Can't Travel Ever, everytime people still make out of City suggestions, I'm too poor for travel, I haven't even had the smallest of holidays in almost 7 years. It's Leicester or Nothing.
The mention of hand protection is a bit confusing. Knights could protect their hands long before the 15th century, so maybe it's better to call gauntlets (plate gaunlets?) a form of finger protection?
I'm curious as to who the manufacturer of your backsword is. I'm looking into an early renaissance-early modern period sword, the styles I'm looking at most closely are a rapier, a spadroon, or a side/backsword.
We did find some problems with the rapier blade. We found blades that are too springy. This makes aiming with the sword difficult. Have you encountered this difficulty with rapiers?
Were dueling and military rapiers thicker/stiffer than the one in the video? I have a hard time imagining that such a flexible blade could be an effective thrusting weapon against someone wearing even minimal protection.
Can you tell something about celtic swords. It is so hard to find any information about it. Ptolemaos, Caesar and polybius write each different stories.
Any idea where I might find a good (Albion quality, or thereabouts) backsword replica for sale? Ever since I first heard and saw one, I've wanted to own one.
If you are a master and use it mainly in a duel - rapier. It's harder to deal a lethal blow or stopping blow at your enemy and parry heavier weapons, but if you are truly a master, you will be untoucable with those speed, maneuverability, and reach. Side sword would give a wide, devastating trust, and it can cut better, but it's less maneuverable and shorter.
MariusThePaladin I'd have to disagree a little, although I may be biased in that I own a really good side sword (actually two of them, both from Hanwei - casiberia.com/img/prod/sh2203.jpg for an image of one). The question was which one would be more practical, which would imply being able to be used very effectively by the common man, and not requiring the level of mastery you mention to wield. The rapier was basically the gentlemanly and predominantly civilian weapon, more of a reflection of social status than true combat skill. Keep in mind the difference between dueling, and the much dirtier methods of fighting that are used when survival is really at risk. In this sense, you are completely correct to say that the master with the rapier was untouchable, but that was in duels or in warding off robbers and ruffians, not determined and dirty tactic-using foes. Indeed it is against this latter opponent, the one who doesn't care about finesse or form, but just the objective, where the true advantage of the side sword lies. While it can be used with rapier-like finesse, the advantage of the cutting blade makes all the difference, especially when the blade is also thicker than that of the rapier. Admittedly the blade is also shorter, but all manner of these dirty tactics can overcome the reach benefit of the rapier. As for the quickness of the side sword, at least the kind I have does very well at that given that the balance point on the blade is barely off the hilt. So, one on one dueling against an opponent, by all means a rapier wins, especially in the hands of a master. In the sense of which is more generally "practical" though, I'd have to give it to the side sword.
Sir, I have always been interested in the Medieval longsword, Renaissance Rapier, and Cutlass. My question is how can a person with no swords training at all learn to use these 3 swords that I have named. Thanks Again!
I thought the rapier developed because the quality of steel improved making really thin blades possible (I'm not an expert). Could you win a duel vs a rapier with a heavier sword?
You can win a duel against someone with a heavier sword. The Rapier is thick enough to help against bayonets, halberds, sabers and spears. It has the thickness and protection to do it. However, how long is your rapier? Length can be a big factor. Skill and size is another factor. With a rapier you have hand protection so you can afford to be risky in your moves. How good your opponent plays a role. How stiff your blade is another variable. It's when you get to the Smallsword where static blocks get dubious. Even the Spadroon can do better than the Smallsword. Though some Smallswords had the Colichemarde. That's a thicker blade portion on a Smallsword. That's used to parry or block larger blades. Propably bayonets.
+Megan DePerro The hilt of a sword consists of the guard, grip and pommel. So where your hand holds the sword but also the pommel on the end and the guard (which could be crossguard on a longsword or sidesword for example)
No, dont hold the sword by the hilt; place one hand near the end of the blade, the other just where the blade starts, then bend your right knee until it touches the ground and hold the sword out in front of you, presenting the hilt to your enemy. Your opponent will then take your sword and let you live in return. This is a very famous, yet sneaky way to ensure you survive the fight. There are also several historical techniques for changing religion or loyalty to a king you should learn, once you've mastered all the "secret ninja surrendering skills" you can proceed to "stealthy poisonous cooking and intrigue mastery tech". Its a lot to learn, but when done youll outstage the mighty Blackadder himself.
it's amusing looking back at how far you an your videos have come. Quality wise, and how much better you are at communicating your knowledge
I've always found this evolution to be very interesting. How the medieval sword survived for centuries, only with some additional bars or shells. English basket hilts, schiavonas, walloons, pallaschs, "forte-épées" in France, etc... they deserve to be known better, to point out that the wide cut and thrust blades of medieval swords never really went outdated. In fact, some straight heavy cavalry sabers from the 19th century (called "lattes" in France) kept that lineage alive.
rapier is an anglicization of the word "Espada de Ropero" which translates to English as "the sword used when you are dressed in your day to day life.
Rapier were more for civilian gentlemen and the side-sword were used more by soldiers during the same time period.
You've got it almost right,it was "espada ropera"🙂
*Espada ropera
Schiavona's are my favorite sword! I love their intricate basketwork and the utility of a good solid cut & thrust blade.
1:25
A fingering?!?!
Good lord sir, keep your foul language to yourself!!!
Such filth.
On Cuts:
Yes, cuts with the rapier happen. The later Italian, particularly the Venitian and Padovan schools emphasized them as attacks in second intention from close measure or as a reposte. But there's a fairly clear connection between the earlier Bolognese that helped define the cuts by angle, and the cuts instructed in a text such as Capoferro that use the earlier defined terms as if they were then common knowledge, instead spending the details on tempo and measure.
The Spanish "Diestro" loved their cuts, but also emphasized a slightly shorter and broader blade to employ them.
On the rapier shown in the video: Yep, that's a Hanwei practice blade. Very thin in cross section and treated to be flexible and springy, because getting hit with the end of a chunk of rebar just hurts. An original, or a reproduction functional blade, is as stiff as you'd expect a sword to be. Just enough flex and spring to not be brittle.
On the evolution of the hilt: I suspect parallel development. Some swordmaker has the thought. "Ya know, if I presented the point extended as a threat in guard, I could keep the other guy farther away from me. I should do something about keeping my hand intact without having to wear gauntlets everywhere."
I've always been fascinated by the evolution of cut and thrust swords over the years, particularly the differences that exist in their usage, despite the many similarities. There seems to be some notable differences aside from the obvious variations in hilt design, blade length, single vs. double edged, curved vs. straight blade, etc., most notably in the approach to footwork, the preferred guards/wards, preferred tempo, etc. Lots of variation among what are, in many ways, quite similar weapons.
I have a hypothesis as to why the rapier with the elaborate handguard was developed. It was developed to counter Phillipine and South east Asian fighting techniques. Look at the timeframe of the rapier development. When did the Spaniards come across the Phillipine Islands? Rapiers use thrusting techniques to counter the circular cutting strikes and defenses of FMA. If you wish, you could contact experts in FMA or SE Asian fighting styles ( ie Silat) and spar with them, comparing their style with the Arming sword and Side sword.
Excellent information! Well delivered and very interesting. Thanks for the instruction.
I think rapiers, spadroons and the like should be grouped together under the name "pointy fuck you stick", and looked at as different models of the same stabby idea.
haha yep, I agree. Two classes of sword: cutty stick and stabby stick. Further refinement (if you really think it's necessary) you can have bigguns and littluns in either class. Move over, Oakeshott!
Am i the only one to find Renaissance weapons fascinating?
kiba BG This is a video where renaissance weapons are directly conversed about! Presumably, most of the people here like Renaissance weaponry.
I want them all :)
yes
Fernando Mercado over priced for a CNC machined sword, everybody rates Albion so highly, they.don't even do a good job on the sharpening. You might as well get a custom sword from a smith if you're willing to pay in the thousands. They are okay but let's not forget they are asking too much for what they offer, I have access to CNC machines in my rented workshop and it takes zero effort or time to actually create a sword blank ready for grinding. They are ripping people off honestly, I wouldn't be able to justify paying more than 400/500 for one of their swords. Might as well go custom if you want to spend grands on a sword.
Substandard Gamer Kiba no.
The gloves played a huge development to the protections.
Excellent video! It is very informative, and clears a lot of doubts about the transition between both swords.
Arming Sword and Target Shield was also a viable and highly defensive midieval style, particularly for light skirmishers in leather, cloth or light chain, with the shield in an edge-on posture for deflection maneuvers and the sword held back point-up with the crossguard at hip level.
Speaking as someone who's trained to use a Schiavona, they are OODLES of fun to use along with being extremely controllable and versatile.
You need to write a book. You have so much knowledge it needs to be documented.
I can't beleave he managed to made a start of the video intresting just by talking about hand-protection o.o
To me, this all falls into the "a rose by any other name still smells as sweet" spectrum.
Great video mate! Loved it. I shall watch other vids of yours now. I love swords and sword play, but was not aware of the definitions of the weapons, and you cleared it up for me. Thank you again, I look forward to more videos from you. Cheers from Oregon USA. :)
There’s a 17th century Nassau handbook (it’s Dutch). Which includes fighting with the ‘rappier’, in the images a sword with ring fingers is seen and it is gripped with the finger across the guard. And they wore gloves (not gauntlets of course) with them.
So I’d say they definitely had a term to distinguish them from a normal sword... Rapier.
Backsword design kind of makes sense. Hard to imagine getting a strong, edge-aligned cut in with a back edge, and nobody on youtube at least seems to practice such strikes.
HebaruSan I have videos up of me cutting through things with the back edge of double-edged swords. It can certainly take a hand off the arm.
+HebaruSan Ive seen a video of Thrand practicing a sort of over head whipping cut in which you turn the blade in the swing to cut with the false edge. I've fiddled with it in my own practice and I can see it delivering a nasty cut and it's pretty damn fast because of the structure of the strike compared to some other cuts.
That arming sword is my favorite weapon in your collection. It's what I'd take if I only had 1 choice.
I watch a lot of your videos and enjoy them. Would you comment on the study: "On Killing, The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" where the studies seemed to show that human instinct was to slash rather than poke even though pokes were more deadly. Also, my ultimate question is whether the additional lethality of a poke factored into the evolution of the rapier, if you could point me to works that address this or comment on this I would be very appreciative.
thanks a ton. this has helped with my research project so much (it's about the evolution of single handers)
True, but the word "rapier" comes from somewhere else.
Short description from Jared Diamonds Guns, Germs and Steel:
"The Rapier with its extra long blade, was developed as a dooming weapon, but became so fashionable in renaissance europe that it was the sword of choice for every aspiring gentleman.
The word rapier derives from the spanish word "espara roppera" and that means "dress sword""
"Espada ropera" only has one 'p'🙂
Best option is to join a HEMA/Historical fencing class. If you can't then there are training books for longsword and rapier available through Amazon and Freelance Academy Press.
Thank you for the steady stream of awesome videos!
The hand guard came about after Fred, Stumpy, Brown invented forward-presented guards
Albion
Yes, they are definitely for people not wearing gauntlets. However, we don't know whether they were primarily for civilians therefore, or for soldiers who did not or could not wear gauntlets. So it is dangerous to assume they are civilian swords, as they are shown in paintings used in war also.
"It wont chop a mans head off, but it will poke him full of holes"
Probably the development of the complex guard in "arming sword" is due to the increasing use of the tip for thrusting, which exposes the weapon hand in the move, for example, I've seen drawings on the sword/buckler play in which during a hit you cover your weapon hand with the buckler.
I can't help buy think of the banter during the Princess Bride duel @10:45
I would generally assume that swords with more hand protection than a simple crossguard with or without side rings developed when people stopped wearing gauntlets made of plate, chain or thick leather.
your plant need some water ! cool video ;)
Very interesting! I'm certainly a fan of the last sword you showed; semmed like the perfect mix! I especially like the single edged blade of it :3
The backsword was really popular throughout history. Its eventual replacement, the saber, isn't really much different at all. It is a very good design.
Noah Weisbrod Sweet, thanks for the info! :D
Armored gauntlets were not common in civilian life, or very expensive and simple cut to wrist would be disarming. That triggered evolution of the hilt guard.
So the Schiavonna and the Knights of Malta's Grand Master's sword would be considered side swords? Very neat. I've always been very intrigued by these swords. I've got a couple swordsmith friends that make very high end rapiers, but I've always had a soft spot for the side sword. It seems more versatile.
Very nice video, it's nice to watch you talking about a subject tha you really own man, very instructive and fun to watch! Congrats! tumbs up
Very unusual name you have, there. A Spanish/Portuguese first name with a German last name, are you possibly from Venezuela or Argentina?
Mason Munts The man speaks portuguese in his profile, dear Mason Munts, do the calculus. Spoiler: most people in southern Brazil have italian/german/polish/ukrainian surnames.
André Borges I'm awful at calculus, though! :c
Awesome videos indeed. Most humbled.
i just wanted to say that backsword is beautiful
It kind of makes sense that a rapier couldn't actually cut limbs off, at least if the duel was to the "first blood"
seems like a practical weapon
those sideburns make it look like you have joker cuts
*CLANG intensifies*
So, I'm a bit unclear on this, but is a basket-hilted broadsword essentially just considered a later-period evolution of the sidesword? Or does it comprise its own lineage? I know there are some Scottish sources that discuss the broadsword proper--are the techniques that much different than, say, Bolognese sidesword? Are there any sources that teach Schiavona, or something more akin to the later basket hilted broadsword from the Continent? Do we just not have any sources discussing them? Were they still used on the Continent? Perhaps in a more military setting? Sorry for the multitude of questions...fascinating topic.
During the 16th century, hilt developments went in various different directions, some of which are connected, some less so. So for example you get cup-hilt rapiers, Pappenheimer types, swept-hilts of various swords and dish hilts all at the same times. The different types of basket hilts of broadswords equally seem to have had sometimes separate and sometimes related lines of development. The English/Scottish/Irish basket hilt seems to have developed more or less in isolation in Britain. The mortuary type hilt seems to have been more connected with Continental models, the Walloon type was found across Europe, the Schiavona seems to have been unique to Venice and the Balkans. In terms of how they were used, the British systems are well documented, but for whatever reasons the Continental basket hilt systems are less documented. I think they were probably not used that much like sideswords, as the guards of sidesword are still very influenced by the need to defend the hand, like medieval systems, whereas the basket hilt systems we do know about tend to confidently hold the hilt forward a lot of the time and use hanging guards extensively.
scholagladiatoria Awesome information, thanks. Simply looking at fencing manuals all the time, I think, gives you a bit of a skewed view of what the history of the sword was actually like. For one thing, these are just the *surviving* manuals, not to mention the fact that they don't really give a ton of information on how swords were used militarily. Once rapiers came to be the dominant dueling weapon, it seems, based on the manuals, as if only George Silver and his fellow Englishmen clung to their beloved short swords ;-). All joking aside, it does seem strange that broad/backsword fencing texts are rather rare outside of Britain, but yet the saber later becomes a quite popular dueling weapon in Italy, etc., and eventually takes over as the dominant military sword throughout Europe. Would you be more inclined to think the theoretical Continental broadsword texts were simply lost to the ages, or that these sword were not used for fencing nearly as much as they appear to have been in in Britain, and were mostly military weapons?
wcropp1 I think it's a fairly complicated issue. In short: broadswords/sabres/backswords are addressed in Continental manuals frequently from about 1790 onwards. From c.1580-c.1660 it's clear that most Continental treatises were concerned with duelling and the duelling weapon was of course predominantly the rapier and then until about 1800 the smallsword. When more military treatises started to be churned out in c.1790 onwards then we see the sabre and broadsword again. So I think the main factor on the Continent is that yes, between about 1580 and 1790 most manuals are concerned with the duelling sword and not the military one. As with everything, there are exceptions though.
Good stuff--thanks for taking the time to respond. I hate to keep pestering you, but this does make me wonder, what do you think made the saber take over as the dominant military sword in the 1800's? Was it the better weapon for the job, or was this more of a fashion trend, or both? I've read that saber hilts allow you to manipulate the blade more freely, and I've seen some sabers with blades that were nearly straight (perhaps more dueling oriented blades), which blurs the lines even more between these military-oriented cut-and-thrust swords. Their variety and relative obscurity in the earlier Continental manuals is partly what makes them so fascinating, though. I suppose history doesn't always fit neatly into a contrived category as we would like it to. Great channel--keep up the good work. Thanks again.
I'd like to ask, though... could a thrust-centric style like Capo Ferro's rapier fighting style be used effectively with a side-sword? It does have cuts, but it stresses thrusts. Being into this whole HEMA thing, I think you've probably seen quite a bit of Capo Ferro before, so you might know the answer to my question...
Yes, there was huge variation amongst rapiers anyway, they varied a lot in terms of length, width, cross-section and cutting capacity. The rapier treatises were supposed to be applicable to a wide range of swords therefore. Though of course some systems may be better or worse with specific rapier/sidesword types.
Jonathan Allen from my experience I agree with this: to correctly apply capoferro's techniques you need a long blade with a hilt that efficiently protect your hand; I would define it a transitional rapier, the kind that stands in between the multiple rings hilt and the cup hilt rapiers
12:43....Scots would sell a family member to get a Basket Hilted Spanish blade from Toledo! Very popular in the Highlands!
Hi, i was watching your video and i had an epiphany (i dont know if this is the right word, english its not first or even second language). I looked for information about the rapier in my country (spain). And it seems that the word rapier comes from the french rapiere and the spanish ropera that means sidesword... (Ropera from the word ropa that means clothes, then it means to be used at the side of the clothes)
very informative video. but something distracted me the whole way through, did his left ear make him look like an elf to anyone else?
Arthiem shit I never noticed until now
Matt, I love your videos. So informational. Is there anywhere I can buy some merchandise to support the channel?
Very nice video, thanks. It closes some gaps in my knowledge about blade weapons. There is still one major question remaining, thogh, where does the "cut&thrust" sword fit in, or is it just a semantical problem?
What is the difference between a sidesword and a basket hilted broadsword? You say that one kind of sidesword is an arming sword with a bit of extra hand protection or a rapier type hilt with an arming sword blade. A basket hilted broadsword seems to be just that, a basket hilt, like the rapier, and a cut and thrust blade, like the arming sword. The backsword seems to be a single edged sidesword. So is the difference in context rather than in the design?
LarsaXL Thing is, a basket hilted broadsword doesn't have the finger rings that are characteristic of sideswords and rapiers. Sideswords, at least examples I've seen, also have more prominant crossguards, while a basket hilt tends not to.
Thank you.
Great video. Hope you continue to make them. ^^
Just bought a rapier from celticwebmerchant for £38! It is described as functioning fencing sword. ( I am not a fencer, yet, but didnt want to buy a wall decoration. Haven't received it yet, but fingers cross still, don't think it can be true, so cheap.
Yea, doesn't feel "sporty" and cumbersome, but maybe my arms aren't trained. But have a feeling the real thing would feel better :(
I've seen swords with wider blades, but the swept hilt of the rapier referred to as a Pappenheimer german rapier
Would the development of hand protection not be more influenced by the carrying (or not) of bucklers, than whether or not sword carrying habits changed?
6:59....A Rapier is a Thrusting blade, but a Broadsword can thrust & cut! ..Broadsword has the full advantage!
Hey Matt, great video, informative as always.
Question: Are you familiar with the Model 1913 Cavalry "Patton" Saber? Would you say it's more or less like a rapier or a side sword?
It's supposedly touted as the best cavalry saber, a specialized thrusting weapon for light cavalry. In your opinion, how to you think it compares to the more common, slightly curved cavalry saber?
I ask because I noticed how similar it is to the spadroon, but the blade appears more in line with the estoc or th rapier.
Anyways, thank you for your vids I really like your channel.
It very well could be considered an Estoc.
AFAIK George Silver didn't like the Spanish and Italian rapier mainly because it's a foreign school unrelated to his tradition.
Then we have the schiavona to add extra confusion but that is only half relevant to the subject. Its relevance lies in it being a military broadsword which is the branch to the side of rapiers.
great post! I learned so much! :)
Very nice video. Do rapier blades really bend that much when held or is it just because of the ball tip?
No, Rapiers should be very stiff, since it is designed for thrusting, this is simply for safety.
Looking through the videos now, but if there's not one on backswords generally, I would like to see one sometime.
What would the distinction be between a side sword and a broadsword?
EDIT: Should watch the full video first.
Though I would like to ask how much overlap the styles of hilts had. Are there any documented "hybrids?"
I own a sword I bought at auction from Wallis and Wallis in the 1970s that was referred to as "a 17th century Swedish rapier". It is actually essentially a sidesword hilt made out of fairly heavy iron bars - S-shaped quillons, finger ring on each side of the blade, one large side loop on each side of the hilt, knucklebow, flat disk pommel ... all mounted to a long backsword blade.
Oh yes, and the grip is plain wood - no wire wrap, no covering with leather or sharkskin or anything else, just plain wood. And it is clearly the original grip style because the wood is both old and is also carved with one of those swirly Nordic patterns.
Does that help?
Im trying to get more details on the types of Swords carried by the Conquistador Armies... What would the swords that mid 16th century Mercenaries who fought alongside Pizarro's and Cort'es have looked like? ... Side sword? ... or since many were on horseback, were they using something that might look like that Basket Hilted Broadsword shown in the video? ... Perhaps the heavier bladed Rapiers your talking about in the last third of the video?.. I find it odd that there is so little information online about what types of swords were carried by these men.. No where else on the globe were such small groups of men fighting against such superior numbers and coming out the victors... I realize they were fighting against what was essentially a stone age people... Still, 200 against 5000 is some seriously lopsided numbers for what was still mostly hand to hand combat...
Awesome videos!.
Could you talk about the evolution of viking swords? i wonder if they changed as much as these, also, i would really like a video on filipino weapons
Do you have any schiavona? Could you do a video on them? What’s the difference between that, a rapier, and a sidesword? Does it have a good compromise between cutting and thrusting, or is it for one particular purpose?
scholagladiatoria
In your experience how did the side-sword/basket-hilt broad & backsword perform in duels against rapiers? Was the lack of reach a great disadvantage? Could you compensate for that by hitting away or grabbing the rapier blade with the off hand?
Ummmm ummmmmm ummmm ummmmmmm!!!! Looks like some one's been breaking the Movember rules!!!! :P
Could you tell me who makes that "Mary Rose" sword? I always learn a lot from your videos. Thanks!
What part of the country is Schola Gladiatoria situated? I wanna learn proper HEMA and I live in Leicester.
We are based in London, Bradford and Manchester. There are clubs in the Midlands - have a look at the British Federation for Historical Swordplay website.
Thank you very much. :D
Just had a look, unfortunately there are none in the east part of the midlands, at least as far as the BFHS site tells me.
ChaoticNarrative KDF in Nottingham is your nearest group. facebook.com/nottingham.kdf/info?tab=page_info
I knew there was one in Nottingham but here's the thing, I hope I don't offend... but I make this clear beforehand everytime that I Can't Travel Ever, everytime people still make out of City suggestions, I'm too poor for travel, I haven't even had the smallest of holidays in almost 7 years. It's Leicester or Nothing.
The mention of hand protection is a bit confusing. Knights could protect their hands long before the 15th century, so maybe it's better to call gauntlets (plate gaunlets?) a form of finger protection?
he specifically said for someone unarmored,civilians, or someone who can't wear gauntlets
LOVE the 1.20 "FINGERING"
- yeah, I like girls.....
:))
I know they made some rapiers triangular shaped. Have you ever handled one? What do you think the advantages of such a shape might be?
Pyrela Smallswords usually had triangular-section blades. It is for maximum stiffness with minimum weight.
That's an Estoc.
I'm curious as to who the manufacturer of your backsword is. I'm looking into an early renaissance-early modern period sword, the styles I'm looking at most closely are a rapier, a spadroon, or a side/backsword.
We did find some problems with the rapier blade. We found blades that are too springy. This makes aiming with the sword difficult. Have you encountered this difficulty with rapiers?
Yes, the Hanwei blades are too flexible. The Darkwood blades are good.
I like the first sword you presented, may I ask where you bought it? I would love to give one to a friend as a gift.
The first sword is an Albion Poitiers, from Albion swords.
scholagladiatoria
Thank you for the information.
johnathon918
If you've seen the price of an Albion sword, the information may or may not be very useful to you.
Oh it was... I make reasonable good money and can afford to buy a good friend a gift.
Around when did the blades turn from the Viking style blade to the more triangular blade on arming swords like the one you show in the video?
Very helpful! Do you have any sources? (Not doubting, just want to research further.)
cut-and-thrust blade with swept hilt has nice German name - Reitschwert :)
Were dueling and military rapiers thicker/stiffer than the one in the video? I have a hard time imagining that such a flexible blade could be an effective thrusting weapon against someone wearing even minimal protection.
Practice blades are more flexible than real ones.
Where did you buy that rapier? I've looked everywhere for a blunt rapier that's not crazy expensive and I can't find one.
would a longer bladed sidesword (length equivalent to that of a rapier) not be superior in cutting, and equal in thrusting to any sort of rapier?
Is there an important reason why some basket hilted swords have that leather lining in the basket, and some don't?
Someone mentioned in another video (can't remember who made it) that it's to stop the basket chafing the hand.
If I have difficulty with edge alignment in test cutting would fingerin g the guard help keep the edge aligned thru the cut?
Wouldn't that final sword you shown be called a swept hilt broadsword/back-sword and not a basket hilt broadsword/back-sword?
So the third sword in the video (the "middle" sword) is a one-edge sword. But why is the edge on the "upper" side on the blade?
Where did u get that sidesword
how powerful is a sidesword with the cut and thrust compared to an arming sword?
Fungible. Good word.
Can you tell something about celtic swords. It is so hard to find any information about it. Ptolemaos, Caesar and polybius write each different stories.
Are "quillon" and "crossguard" synonymous?
Well a crossguard has two quillons.
Any idea where I might find a good (Albion quality, or thereabouts) backsword replica for sale? Ever since I first heard and saw one, I've wanted to own one.
Hmmmm, can anybody tell me which sword would be more practical? A side sword vs a rapier
If you are a master and use it mainly in a duel - rapier.
It's harder to deal a lethal blow or stopping blow at your enemy and parry heavier weapons, but if you are truly a master, you will be untoucable with those speed, maneuverability, and reach.
Side sword would give a wide, devastating trust, and it can cut better, but it's less maneuverable and shorter.
MariusThePaladin
I'd have to disagree a little, although I may be biased in that I own a really good side sword (actually two of them, both from Hanwei - casiberia.com/img/prod/sh2203.jpg for an image of one).
The question was which one would be more practical, which would imply being able to be used very effectively by the common man, and not requiring the level of mastery you mention to wield. The rapier was basically the gentlemanly and predominantly civilian weapon, more of a reflection of social status than true combat skill. Keep in mind the difference between dueling, and the much dirtier methods of fighting that are used when survival is really at risk. In this sense, you are completely correct to say that the master with the rapier was untouchable, but that was in duels or in warding off robbers and ruffians, not determined and dirty tactic-using foes.
Indeed it is against this latter opponent, the one who doesn't care about finesse or form, but just the objective, where the true advantage of the side sword lies. While it can be used with rapier-like finesse, the advantage of the cutting blade makes all the difference, especially when the blade is also thicker than that of the rapier. Admittedly the blade is also shorter, but all manner of these dirty tactics can overcome the reach benefit of the rapier. As for the quickness of the side sword, at least the kind I have does very well at that given that the balance point on the blade is barely off the hilt.
So, one on one dueling against an opponent, by all means a rapier wins, especially in the hands of a master. In the sense of which is more generally "practical" though, I'd have to give it to the side sword.
Sir, I have always been interested in the Medieval longsword, Renaissance Rapier, and Cutlass. My question is how can a person with no swords training at all learn to use these 3 swords that I have named. Thanks Again!
I thought the rapier developed because the quality of steel improved making really thin blades possible (I'm not an expert). Could you win a duel vs a rapier with a heavier sword?
Stormwern Rapiers are actually among the heavier European swords, weighing as much as a longsword, which is generally used two-handed.
You can win a duel against someone with a heavier sword.
The Rapier is thick enough to help against bayonets, halberds, sabers and spears. It has the thickness and protection to do it.
However, how long is your rapier? Length can be a big factor.
Skill and size is another factor.
With a rapier you have hand protection so you can afford to be risky in your moves.
How good your opponent plays a role.
How stiff your blade is another variable.
It's when you get to the Smallsword where static blocks get dubious.
Even the Spadroon can do better than the Smallsword. Though some Smallswords had the Colichemarde.
That's a thicker blade portion on a Smallsword. That's used to parry or block larger blades. Propably bayonets.
What is a hilt? Is that where your hand holds the sword?
Yes.
+Megan DePerro The hilt of a sword consists of the guard, grip and
pommel. So where your hand holds the sword but also the pommel on the
end and the guard (which could be crossguard on a longsword or sidesword
for example)
Arnand Kularajah Thanks. I figured it out months ago though. :)
No, dont hold the sword by the hilt; place one hand near the end of the blade, the other just where the blade starts, then bend your right knee until it touches the ground and hold the sword out in front of you, presenting the hilt to your enemy.
Your opponent will then take your sword and let you live in return.
This is a very famous, yet sneaky way to ensure you survive the fight.
There are also several historical techniques for changing religion or loyalty to a king you should learn, once you've mastered all the "secret ninja surrendering skills" you can proceed to "stealthy poisonous cooking and intrigue mastery tech".
Its a lot to learn, but when done youll outstage the mighty Blackadder himself.
Could a backsword be curved, or would it be called something else then?
A curved backsword is essentially a sabre.
Did they ever put a saber handguard on a rapier?
Wasn't the sharp tip also used to make cuts?
which one would win in a fight a midevil europion crusader with his longsword or a british red coat with his rapier