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Hey Joe, Love these analysis! I would love to see a video or series on mixing, taking into account different file types and/or playback media. I spend hours sometimes getting what I think is a perfect mix in my studio, then render the track to MP3 (I know, inherent problems with the format) because that's what a lot of people listen to and find I need to go back and tweek the mix to get it to sound better (or even sometimes just acceptable) in this format.
You have inadvertently demonstrated how balanced audio signals cancel noise. Note if you still want that out of phase stereo effect the user was going for simply add a little delay to one channel. Copy the mono track to a new track and slide it slightly one way or the other. That way there will be no mono cancellation issue and as a bonus you get an even wider stereo effect.
If you know how to use the stock Phase Corellation meter in Studio One, it gives you great information about mono, stereo and phase issues. Joe, may be you can do a video on how to use & and read this meter.
great video with one proviso, if your recording Mid/Side acoustic guitar its a very easy way of setting up the track without all that duplicating it then panning one left and one right
Hey Joe, have you ever heard of Tri dimensional wiring? Cars used to have a center speaker in the dashboard that reveal "the mystical hidden mid channel". In my home I have 3 speakers wired up where the middle one acts like a center speaker in the dashboard of a car. In order to accomplish this you preferably need a stereo amp that can play four speakers, an A and B stereo output. You regularly wire the left and right speaker but the center speaker is wired on your stereos B channel, taking the POSITIVE lead from left and the POSITIVE lead from the right channel. I know this sounds awkward, but then you are able to hear the "mystery mid channel". The reason I don't use four speakers is that my brother fkd up one of the 4 speakers he'd gave to me. KEF model 104ab reference series. I know they're old but do a perfect job in my apartment. And I can preferably turn off the center speaker that is fed on the B channel.
@@RiffMusic1970 the guy must have the level markers set to some weird un-useful setting, your right, the channel itself isn't clipping, just the level marker.
I’m probably way off here but for about the last year or so I just take all my individual instruments and create stereo busses for each of them and put all the plugins on the busses. Sounds pretty good to me and it’s super easy. I also only have bass, maybe 2 guitars, acoustic, a little keys, and drums so not a lot to worry about.
I was wondering what was wrong, because I was watching this on my phone and I could not hear any guitars at all when you said the guitars were coming in. Fascinating. Good to know.
Something that might confuse people is "complementary eq". Back when Elemental Audio Systems (EAS) was around (before being bought by Roger Nichols Digital), the had 3 great plug-ins: Equim, Firium, and Neodynium (I had them all). Equim had a "pseudo-stereo" preset, where if it raised 1k on one channel, it lowered it on the other.That preset did that for several frequencies, in harmonic intervals. Visually, it LOOKS like the idea of inverting phase, but it isn't, and it (complementary eq) is actually a great way to fit things into a mix.
I'd like to add something here. Even if you have 2 speakers depending on where they are positioned in the room and you to them you will create pockets where in some locations you will hear the guitar and in others you will not hear the guitar at all. You can make a fun experiment with the same frequency fazed opposite from each speaker and find in the room where you cannot hear it and where you will hear it louder.
Although it maybe a mistake. I can see this trick being a nifty little Easter egg sorta thing. If I recall correctly it used to be a thing where songs would be released in stereo and mono. Well one would be released, then the other would be released on say the b-side of an album, or even on another album.
Hello Joe!Can you tell me how to avoid this big annoying noise like a wind blowing in my Guitar Amp when i plug the behind jack output with the back output of my Scarlett Focusrite 2i4 to play in Studio One 5 and add my plugins?Thank you very much!
Question on a different subject. Is there a way to categorize sessions? I’m an analog user for years and just started using digital a couple years ago. When I have multiple sessions how do I work on one clients songs without seeing everything I have in my DAW?
Hi Joe. Can you please help. I listened to you and recorded 2 mono tracks background vocal. However, When I pan left and the second track to the right....I still have phase issue. However, the Phase inverter does not work on mono source. What do I need to do? Thanks.
So, if I want to keep the mono track mono, I shouldn't open the Stereo per track? As in my opinion, it remains mono, but its not in the middle like The bass/kick
So, Joe, are there any plugins you could recommend that would be able to more effectively process a mono sound to make it stereo?? I.e. without simply inverting the phase? What for example happens with plugins that have mid/side conversions?
@@Mikahaan I probably needed to be clearer. I meant a stereo file, which sounds like a mono file, i.e. the data on both, left and right channels sound or are identical.
@@andreasurban6795 Mid/Side requires a coding and decoding process. The Mid/Side coding process creates three audio channels from two ... 1) - A mono channel derived from equal signal/freqs & levels in the original stereo file. 2) - a stereo (2 channel) audio signal derived from the dissimilar signal in the original stereo file --> minus the mono. This allows one to treat the mono signals separate from the stereo signals. Then, the 3 channels need to be decoded back into the resulting stereo file... the Studio One Mix Tool is used before and after the Mid/Side processing in order to Code & Decode the 3 channels. Joe Gilder has a video on just this subject ... How to Mid-Side ANYTHING in Studio One --> ua-cam.com/video/KxbxCEcsB3k/v-deo.html
My phone has a mono speaker and I couldn't hear the guitar with the phase reversed, regardless of whether you played it in stereo or mono mode. That's weird, I never experienced such an issue listening to music through my phone speaker! (hence why I prefer phones with a mono speaker over those that get stereo by amplifying the earpiece speaker which has a completely different sound than the actual loudspeaker)
Yay!, no I know how to chk my mic on Mono!..thank you You can make a “split” ( duplicate track, one hard pan to L the other hard pan to R , but one with delay of at least 8mm sec). That would make it really wide
If you Bounce the track with polarity flipped (or duplicate it first, then Bounce to New Track), wouldn't that allow the stereo effect and retain the guitars in mono? Doubling the track with another guitar is of course another approach.
🙋: How do we convert a stereo track to mono? I got a session from a client and I noticed 2 instruments - 1 labelled R and the other labelled L- I'm assuming left and right. But here's the kicker, both are stereo tracks - 🤦♂️. I can't find a way to flip one or both stereo to mono - any ideas?
Solo it, Pan left, export to mixdown ticking the mono box in the export dialogue window, then drag that back into your session. Repeat panned right. Voila, 2 mono tracks
@@LoweCommotionStudio Clickbait is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow that link and read, view, or listen to the linked piece of online content, being typically deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait
@@LoweCommotionStudio The title "Don't Make This Stereo Mixing Mistake" makes you ask: "which mistake?" This is simply clickbait, as important information is withheld. Maybe I already know which mistake is meant? So I need to watch the video in order to know what the title is about with the risk to completely waste my time only for Joe Gilder to get another click to justify his job.
@@Monomorphismus Welcome to how UA-cam works. Clickbait is not always a negative thing, it's just clever advertising. As a UA-camr, you DO want people to click on your video, just as advertising companies DO want you to buy their product. Do you expect to try a new flavor of chips without buying the bag first? They're withholding information too. It's only negative or "false advertising" when they use a clever title to get a click and then provide no value or irrelevant value. However in this video, there was nothing deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading, as he delivered on the title's premise. This IS his job, he's good at it, he deserves clicks and views for making good videos. If you don't want Joe Gilder to "get another click", then why did you click on the damn video?
Thank you Joe! I don't want my guitars to disappear. I want my vocals to disappear.
I don't want my guitars to disappear either hahahaha
I do like these "mistake" videos, actually. Very interesting lesson in the basics of "mono and stereo", so very helpful to learn from! Thanks Joe!
Excellent video, Joe. Thanks for making this!
Amazing one! Thank you so much Joe
Love these videos. Thank Joe.
Keep these videos coming!!!!
Thanks Joe!!! I'm remembering the oscilloscope from when I was in school learning about phase cancelation! :)
Wow. So cool thanks for sharing.
Watching this in my mono phone, I could almost never hear the guitar. Point well made!
Thanks for those zoom ins. That really helps
Gem of a topic... I suppose then that adding crossover complicates this. Thanks for the insight.
Good info, Joe. Important to know.
Thanks Joe
Hey Joe, Love these analysis! I would love to see a video or series on mixing, taking into account different file types and/or playback media. I spend hours sometimes getting what I think is a perfect mix in my studio, then render the track to MP3 (I know, inherent problems with the format) because that's what a lot of people listen to and find I need to go back and tweek the mix to get it to sound better (or even sometimes just acceptable) in this format.
I'm loving it
Joe,
Awesome -
I don’t comment much but you do an awesome job explaining things
Thanks again sharing your expertise
Jerry
Thanks Jerry - Joe Gilder
Interesting lesson.
This is also the same concept that is used by some to create DIY acapella vocals or remove sounds from original tracks.
You have inadvertently demonstrated how balanced audio signals cancel noise.
Note if you still want that out of phase stereo effect the user was going for simply add a little delay to one channel. Copy the mono track to a new track and slide it slightly one way or the other. That way there will be no mono cancellation issue and as a bonus you get an even wider stereo effect.
I do this alot. About 20 - 30 ms works nicely. Yes, there may be some phase issues in mono, but I contend that mono listeners are few and far between.
Mind blown!
Yep, this happened to me just the other day. Thanks
Thanks
Nice!!
If you know how to use the stock Phase Corellation meter in Studio One, it gives you great information about mono, stereo and phase issues. Joe, may be you can do a video on how to use & and read this meter.
great video with one proviso, if your recording Mid/Side acoustic guitar its a very easy way of setting up the track without all that duplicating it then panning one left and one right
Yep I like these kind of videos
Hey Joe, have you ever heard of Tri dimensional wiring? Cars used to have a center speaker in the dashboard that reveal "the mystical hidden mid channel". In my home I have 3 speakers wired up where the middle one acts like a center speaker in the dashboard of a car. In order to accomplish this you preferably need a stereo amp that can play four speakers, an A and B stereo output. You regularly wire the left and right speaker but the center speaker is wired on your stereos B channel, taking the POSITIVE lead from left and the POSITIVE lead from the right channel. I know this sounds awkward, but then you are able to hear the "mystery mid channel". The reason I don't use four speakers is that my brother fkd up one of the 4 speakers he'd gave to me. KEF model 104ab reference series. I know they're old but do a perfect job in my apartment. And I can preferably turn off the center speaker that is fed on the B channel.
I found iZotope Ozone Imager useful, especially for processing entire mono mixes into something nice.
I cant believe how hot that guitar track was on the level marker! yet sounded quiet in the mix.
That's what I was thinking. I think it's just zoomed in.
@@RiffMusic1970 i was looking at the level marker on the fader later in the video - looks very clippy to me
@@stuartdoherty7814 yep. I see it now right at 0.
Doesn’t the main get a red box when it clips? I don’t see anything indicating it’s clipping.
@@RiffMusic1970 the guy must have the level markers set to some weird un-useful setting, your right, the channel itself isn't clipping, just the level marker.
I’m probably way off here but for about the last year or so I just take all my individual instruments and create stereo busses for each of them and put all the plugins on the busses. Sounds pretty good to me and it’s super easy. I also only have bass, maybe 2 guitars, acoustic, a little keys, and drums so not a lot to worry about.
I was wondering what was wrong, because I was watching this on my phone and I could not hear any guitars at all when you said the guitars were coming in. Fascinating. Good to know.
Interesting!
Something that might confuse people is "complementary eq". Back when Elemental Audio Systems (EAS) was around (before being bought by Roger Nichols Digital), the had 3 great plug-ins: Equim, Firium, and Neodynium (I had them all). Equim had a "pseudo-stereo" preset, where if it raised 1k on one channel, it lowered it on the other.That preset did that for several frequencies, in harmonic intervals. Visually, it LOOKS like the idea of inverting phase, but it isn't, and it (complementary eq) is actually a great way to fit things into a mix.
Oh that's interesting.
your the best
Thanx Joe. That's a mistake I'm sure I made back in my teens.
-BiG Pluck
I'd like to add something here.
Even if you have 2 speakers depending on where they are positioned in the room and you to them you will create pockets where in some locations you will hear the guitar and in others you will not hear the guitar at all.
You can make a fun experiment with the same frequency fazed opposite from each speaker and find in the room where you cannot hear it and where you will hear it louder.
Although it maybe a mistake. I can see this trick being a nifty little Easter egg sorta thing. If I recall correctly it used to be a thing where songs would be released in stereo and mono. Well one would be released, then the other would be released on say the b-side of an album, or even on another album.
Hello Joe!Can you tell me how to avoid this big annoying noise like a wind blowing in my Guitar Amp when i plug the behind jack output with the back output of my Scarlett Focusrite 2i4 to play in Studio One 5 and add my plugins?Thank you very much!
First thing I did while hearing the guitars for the first time in this video was to click the mono button on my Studio1824c. My prediction was right 😂
Question on a different subject. Is there a way to categorize sessions?
I’m an analog user for years and just started using digital a couple years ago. When I have multiple sessions how do I work on one clients songs without seeing everything I have in my DAW?
Joe wbt. duplicate the track panning L/R and make one track 1ms delay ? Is this cause the same issue?
Joe do you still have a membership for engineering? I don’t see the link!
Hi Joe. Can you please help. I listened to you and recorded 2 mono tracks background vocal. However, When I pan left and the second track to the right....I still have phase issue. However, the Phase inverter does not work on mono source. What do I need to do? Thanks.
First one, great going Joe
So, if I want to keep the mono track mono, I shouldn't open the Stereo per track? As in my opinion, it remains mono, but its not in the middle like The bass/kick
What I noticed is if you leave it in the center then of course cancellation will happen. But panning it hard left or right does not.
It will when anyone listens in mono. That's bad. - Joe Gilder
Does Studio One come with Voodoo Magic?
So, Joe, are there any plugins you could recommend that would be able to more effectively process a mono sound to make it stereo?? I.e. without simply inverting the phase? What for example happens with plugins that have mid/side conversions?
A mono file is Mid only (since there's no L/R signal to split to the Side).
@@Mikahaan I probably needed to be clearer. I meant a stereo file, which sounds like a mono file, i.e. the data on both, left and right channels sound or are identical.
@@andreasurban6795 Mid/Side requires a coding and decoding process. The Mid/Side coding process creates three audio channels from two ... 1) - A mono channel derived from equal signal/freqs & levels in the original stereo file. 2) - a stereo (2 channel) audio signal derived from the dissimilar signal in the original stereo file --> minus the mono. This allows one to treat the mono signals separate from the stereo signals. Then, the 3 channels need to be decoded back into the resulting stereo file... the Studio One Mix Tool is used before and after the Mid/Side processing in order to Code & Decode the 3 channels. Joe Gilder has a video on just this subject ... How to Mid-Side ANYTHING in Studio One --> ua-cam.com/video/KxbxCEcsB3k/v-deo.html
💪
My phone has a mono speaker and I couldn't hear the guitar with the phase reversed, regardless of whether you played it in stereo or mono mode.
That's weird, I never experienced such an issue listening to music through my phone speaker! (hence why I prefer phones with a mono speaker over those that get stereo by amplifying the earpiece speaker which has a completely different sound than the actual loudspeaker)
I can’t get stereo.. even if it’s on stereo it records mono.. each of my channels on my audio interface are independent.. what am I doing wrong?
Yay!, no I know how to chk my mic on Mono!..thank you
You can make a “split” ( duplicate track, one hard pan to L the other hard pan to R , but one with delay of at least 8mm sec).
That would make it really wide
What about doubling the track one right, one left BUT delay one of them for ~1ms? What that solve the problem too?
I was wondering the same. Or panning one copy left, one copy right and blending with the original mono signal
1ms is not enough, more like 20-30ms works better.
If you Bounce the track with polarity flipped (or duplicate it first, then Bounce to New Track), wouldn't that allow the stereo effect and retain the guitars in mono? Doubling the track with another guitar is of course another approach.
Nope. Same problem. Don't do it. - Joe Gilder
Ah, I think I get it. The “flipped” left channel after the Bounce would still disappear when collapsed to mono.
🙋: How do we convert a stereo track to mono? I got a session from a client and I noticed 2 instruments - 1 labelled R and the other labelled L- I'm assuming left and right. But here's the kicker, both are stereo tracks - 🤦♂️. I can't find a way to flip one or both stereo to mono - any ideas?
Solo it, Pan left, export to mixdown ticking the mono box in the export dialogue window, then drag that back into your session. Repeat panned right. Voila, 2 mono tracks
@@alcraig1 nice 1
My top part of the channel in Studio One 5 does not have gain and phase buttons. Is there a way to enable them? Thanks
If you click the wrench in the mixer there is an option to turn on "Input Controls," that'll put it there.
@@jboulware Thanks, I'll try that
Look at 4:02 in the video.
@@presonus I honestly don't know how I missed that. Thanks... Feeling pretty dumb right now
I get stereo from twin mono tracks by making one of them milliseconds behind the other.
Good thing I have a mono button on my monitor controller
yes, duplicate the mono track ,pan it left and right with effects, I did it!
That red track clipped enough?
It's not clipped. It's just zoomed in on the waveform.
Sound cancelling headphones in industry do this.
try to following
Am I the only one who didnt hear the guitar on the first run at all.
Don't make this clickbait mistake.
How is this clickbait? Please explain.
@@LoweCommotionStudio Clickbait is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow that link and read, view, or listen to the linked piece of online content, being typically deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait
@@Monomorphismus Yes, thank you for intentionally missing the point. It's a great look for you.
Now, how does it pertain to this video?
@@LoweCommotionStudio The title "Don't Make This Stereo Mixing Mistake" makes you ask: "which mistake?" This is simply clickbait, as important information is withheld. Maybe I already know which mistake is meant? So I need to watch the video in order to know what the title is about with the risk to completely waste my time only for Joe Gilder to get another click to justify his job.
@@Monomorphismus Welcome to how UA-cam works. Clickbait is not always a negative thing, it's just clever advertising. As a UA-camr, you DO want people to click on your video, just as advertising companies DO want you to buy their product. Do you expect to try a new flavor of chips without buying the bag first? They're withholding information too. It's only negative or "false advertising" when they use a clever title to get a click and then provide no value or irrelevant value. However in this video, there was nothing deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading, as he delivered on the title's premise. This IS his job, he's good at it, he deserves clicks and views for making good videos. If you don't want Joe Gilder to "get another click", then why did you click on the damn video?