Man it's such a shame to see as I know you and many others within the community had so much love for this game and SAW THE SAME VISION! The fact it never was expanded upon it's initial potential seriously blows my mind. So many things that could have been tackled in different ways that could have made this one of the biggest staple games in the VR industry. Hope we get another good shot at a VRMMO from a studio that genuinely has love and passion for both the game and it's community
Exactly dude! We SAW what it could be! Even if it stayed the exact same art style and what it really could have been...Our next hope is Ilysia, and while I'm going to be extremely cautious the developers seem to have some promising things in store, while fully listening to feedback, are ready to change anything, and accept their failures and be as transparent as possible.
Absolutely agree. I hope the next big game that gets the attention of you guys, deserves the kinda energy that comes from having people like you and Z invested in their dream.
@@ZstormVRhave you heard of eldramoor? It came from the ashes of the orbus community, having devs that are Vrmmo players, orbus devs, zenith devs and a guy from blizzard. At its early pre kickstarter state it looks really nice and I really think the dev team being from Vrmmo players I think they’ll learn from most of the dying vrmmos
I remember playing the game at launch, i was in a open field after a "ok" tutorial surrounded by 30 people who were wearing basic looking armor or underwear and for some reason i was trying to cook on a station in this empty field and it was confusing. Killed some monsters and thought "what am i meant to do? there is no direction for me to take"
Launch was really hype for this game. I watched streams non-stop when I was out of game and then experienced so much of the game myself. and Then it just...stopped. Like everyone hit a wall at the same time. It became obvious that the game wasn't really finished and there wasn't enough focus on the social aspects to keep a community lingering while they built the actual game. There was huge potential here but it quickly became apparent that Ramen couldn't meet it. Part of me thinks they should NOT have released the game in early access, and had much more limited beta access, so that they could refine the game without exhausting the patience of the playerbase. Part of me thinks they would never have been able to meet hte expectations of an mmo with such a small budget/team. All of me thinks it was a shame.
I was a Kickstarter for zenith, and I remember being in their discord asking for the things they promised (mostly asking for pets). I just remember the zenith staff cursing me out, and I mean that literally. That was a sign it would never work.
Yo @Zstorm You're the reason why I got into zenith & my first VR headset, the quest one was the reason why I got into zenith and zenith was the reason why I got a VR headset. The quest one was the first VR headset experience I had ever experienced & to this day I still play VR and love every bit of it everyday I hop in I enjoy talking with people socializing. Thank you for all the videos of zenith and being someone I can watch on twitch while playing the same game side by side having your stream on the background. Hope to enjoy plenty more streams and videos from you and hope to see you in Alicia one day hell your in my friends list on Oculus I'm sure we'll bump into each other eventually
I was sad to see their announcement, but was expecting it at this point. Made several great friends like Sumatchi from the betas and release, and have fond memories of playing it at launch with them. That rough launch with all the bugs, like the disappearing +1 weapons and gear, did make for a bit of frustration, but I had hopes that it would develop into something great. Seeing them do a bait and switch on Steam by swapping The Last City as a DLC and keeping all the reviews for their new Nexus game mode was the first sign that they were circling the drain for me. I hope one day we will get the VRMMO we all want and dream of.
Great breakdown Z, Had lots of fun in Zenith. It's sad but I think it's just another example of a game trying to do too much without having the basics sorted out.
Great video I just came back with my LV40 zantesioken from 2 years ago. Last week claimed the throne and started rades . It's still a great game! So much new content! I ended after grinding the world boss so all my old lv 42 ites are poopoo😂
This video hurt. I wasn't able to play for a while due to a shoulder injury, and when I came back... things had changed, but then everything seemed to be getting better. I won't lie; I had a tear in my eye watching some of this. RIP one of the BEST games there was, bugs or not. The Vision was great, but the direction...
I wana say I will remember everyone that I have met in Zenith more then any game I have met to me zenith was a very Therapeutic game for me and I couldn't get enough even in the hard times you could see the real love I WILL MISS YOU ZENITHEANS!!
Fast flying was a core element to the game that brought people back time after time. I just dont care what anyone says. I played the game maybe 4 more times after that but it was just not the same fun. It wasnt even the fast flight. it was the fact that we could fly anywhere in any direction. It was a core element of exploration not possible on foot. If they ever put it back i would go back to my days of living in this game. Straight up like Kirito, i was in this game 10 hours a night.
Over time Zenith seemed to become less and less coherent and with each new feature more bugs were added than were fixed. I had plenty of fun in Zenith while it lasted, but in the end the grind took over then my friends stopped playing. In the earlier days we actually had a lot of fun playing around with the glitches.
I’m wondering if the fast line was taken out because of the climb to the throne. I went into the PTR this week and I was able to fly right up to the throne. I think the biggest problem with a lot of MMORPG’s and this happened with World of Warcraft is that it’s hard to balance between casual players and people who can play all day. Sometimes people got bored because they didn’t have enough to do and then other people complain because they couldn’t catch up.
i didnt play zenith much the last 6-8 months, but god it sucked to see it go out like this. i made amazing friends through it. i had friends find romance through it (they now live together) and i had an amazing time with what i played, and i played a TON. i got my moneys worth but god i was wanting so much more from it. heres hoping ramen takes what they learned from zenith and can find success in their next game.
I’m wondering if the fast flying was taken out because of the climb to the throne. I went into the PTR this week and I was able to fly right up to the throne.
I was enjoying the game, until a few hours in when i could not for the life of me, find how to complete the quest. It was completely broken and i just gave up then. Was really excited to try a VR MMO as well when i got my psvr2 as well. I just wish square could make a VR update for FFXI. After using VRchat and exploring some of my favourite areas in FFXI, i need it now! Lol
Sadly, it is what it is. That's what happen when CEO and CTO don't listen correctly and leave certain person at key point in their company... I put all the blame on Lauren and Andy for this debacle. They had a vision for their game, but never followed through. I'll miss our game time together Zstorm and with Toast. Hope to see you guys in the next VRMMO.
When this game started the in game comunnity was really neat. I kind felt like the experience was peak when people were killing world bosses and the other boss fights. I think the game lost its spirit with instances. I miss my Laughing coffin guild and personalities like Polish Hammer
Honestly, I was so hyped over Zenith, but the downfall of this game, was on them. They mentioned working on other games in the background, so they were definitely generating money from Zenith, and it seems to have been going to places other than Zenith. That video they made kinda insinuating that the fans were the reason it failed, but I strongly disagree with it, because they had you, they had toast, they had literal superfans who were beyond passionate about the game. If they'd fixed existing problems instead of adding more clunky systems, if they'd launched once the overall ui had been polished, it'd have caused less teething issues with people (like myself) having no idea how the systems worked (And RPGs, and MMOs are part of my every day gaming experience). I know it's not the most popular opinion, but they screwed around with Zenith and it blew up in their faces, and as a result, they upset real genuine fans like you guys that created constant hype for it. In honesty, I don't care how good their next project is, I won't trust the hype or invest in their next game, because they moved on instead of fixing their game, and it was probably a general lack of experience on their part, but they burned themselves with the outcome of Zenith and that f2p microtransaction game they crapped out. I tried to get into Zenith a few times, but the game just wasn't user friendly, and I know of RPG veterns that found the games systems confusing unless they invested an unordinate amount of time into learning them. I think it's an absolute shame what happened, but my care doesn't go to the Devs, but to their superfans that poured tons of energy and effort into hyping their game and spending hours in it trying to keep it alive. The Devs did not deserve having you and Toast, and the only good that came of it, were the opportunities you all gained from the recognised passion you all shared and the memories you guys made.
Ramen falls under the umbrella of Indie Devs, I’m certain you know this, but they act like they’re a AAA company by not listening to the community. We were willing to help, but we got shut down more times than not. It’s a shame, seeing a game we loved shatter before our eyes…
@@ZstormVR Has Ilysia got off the ground yet? Ive been playing Dungeons of Eternity, Ghosts of Tabor. Working IRL. Im pretty keen to play another VR mmorpg. Hey Cythear was talking about a bunch or ex Zenith and Orbis devs getting together, working in a new game. That could be awesome.
Zenith launched ok... say whatever, half-naked or whatever, ppl had fun, the problem is that players have seen that the game was going nowhere, what they implemented was no way near what players wanted and playing a game that isn't evolving is not fun, they just didn't listen to the public and that's it, they had a lot of time to implement things that players wanted and they focused on other things, and the players saw that and just left, heck, zenith is good as it is right now, ppl don't play it because they know it isn't going anywhere, tell them to sell the game and u'll see ho players return to it because they know the feature they waited for so long is going to be implemented and not ignores as it was until now. IMO the problem was direction and that's it.
@@evandarp exactly. They should have left well enough alone and encouraged people to use the feature maybe reduced the stamina so you couldn't go as far but leave it in.
@@silentbattousai1 it would have been smart to pivot into features that manifests into the game. Intended or unintended fast flying was awesome and I don’t believe it would have broken the dungeons or the climb. It would have made it more fun. We found speed and stamina boosts that effectively created a bypass and fast flying dynamic anyway. I consider fast flying similar to the ISOS in Tron. When the game architecture gives rise to new evolutionary dynamics. You fkn go with it not kill them off. Idiots.
@@evandarp indeed. They could have had fast flying competitions and winner gets a dungeon key to open such a chest every Wednesday or something. The higher the key count the better the rewards
Haven't really watched the whole video, but I see you falling into a trap most dedicated players of any game fall into. You blame all the little details and things that turned you off over time after playing a long time. The truth is, the general public was turned off by their first impression at launch. I loved the concept but it never really captured me. I saw announcements for major patches but felt no urge to try it again. Because it never really captured me in the first place. It was a combination of the mobile quality VR graphics, generic content, and awkward UI and systems that had me play for maybe two days and then give up. Maybe it got better, but what motivation did I have to give it another chance? First impressions are everything.
@@exmello yeah, nah. Could be a bit of a superficial analysis there mate. First impressions matter but once you invest time in a task its more about the social payoffs. For a vr game that was at well over 500 daily players just on steam after two years since launch to drop down to 6 daily players. First impressions aren’t what killed Zenith. Poor leadership did, and by that I mean the leaders didn’t listen to and embrase the community direction of the game. All those little details, are actually a symptom of the decision makers “Andy” not embracing the players and dev team as equals and incrementally alienating players and developers to the point where no one wanted to follow him anymore.
![[Mr Caption] No Todds, No Masters critique Fallout 4 (reupload)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zbaa2P9qL40/mqdefault.jpg)
Man it's such a shame to see as I know you and many others within the community had so much love for this game and SAW THE SAME VISION! The fact it never was expanded upon it's initial potential seriously blows my mind. So many things that could have been tackled in different ways that could have made this one of the biggest staple games in the VR industry. Hope we get another good shot at a VRMMO from a studio that genuinely has love and passion for both the game and it's community
Exactly dude! We SAW what it could be! Even if it stayed the exact same art style and what it really could have been...Our next hope is Ilysia, and while I'm going to be extremely cautious the developers seem to have some promising things in store, while fully listening to feedback, are ready to change anything, and accept their failures and be as transparent as possible.
Absolutely agree. I hope the next big game that gets the attention of you guys, deserves the kinda energy that comes from having people like you and Z invested in their dream.
@@ZstormVRhave you heard of eldramoor? It came from the ashes of the orbus community, having devs that are Vrmmo players, orbus devs, zenith devs and a guy from blizzard. At its early pre kickstarter state it looks really nice and I really think the dev team being from Vrmmo players I think they’ll learn from most of the dying vrmmos
It was a blast playing with you guys. Sad to see it go
@@RinTheBard @ZstormVR this is the game Cythear was talking about. Very interesting 🧐⚡️
I remember playing the game at launch, i was in a open field after a "ok" tutorial surrounded by 30 people who were wearing basic looking armor or underwear and for some reason i was trying to cook on a station in this empty field and it was confusing. Killed some monsters and thought "what am i meant to do? there is no direction for me to take"
Launch was really hype for this game. I watched streams non-stop when I was out of game and then experienced so much of the game myself. and Then it just...stopped. Like everyone hit a wall at the same time. It became obvious that the game wasn't really finished and there wasn't enough focus on the social aspects to keep a community lingering while they built the actual game. There was huge potential here but it quickly became apparent that Ramen couldn't meet it.
Part of me thinks they should NOT have released the game in early access, and had much more limited beta access, so that they could refine the game without exhausting the patience of the playerbase.
Part of me thinks they would never have been able to meet hte expectations of an mmo with such a small budget/team.
All of me thinks it was a shame.
I was a Kickstarter for zenith, and I remember being in their discord asking for the things they promised (mostly asking for pets). I just remember the zenith staff cursing me out, and I mean that literally. That was a sign it would never work.
Yo @Zstorm You're the reason why I got into zenith & my first VR headset, the quest one was the reason why I got into zenith and zenith was the reason why I got a VR headset. The quest one was the first VR headset experience I had ever experienced & to this day I still play VR and love every bit of it everyday I hop in I enjoy talking with people socializing. Thank you for all the videos of zenith and being someone I can watch on twitch while playing the same game side by side having your stream on the background. Hope to enjoy plenty more streams and videos from you and hope to see you in Alicia one day hell your in my friends list on Oculus I'm sure we'll bump into each other eventually
Great vid and thoughts Z.
It's sad, but this just makes me want to jump right back in.
It's the times everybody had, that made the game.
I was sad to see their announcement, but was expecting it at this point. Made several great friends like Sumatchi from the betas and release, and have fond memories of playing it at launch with them. That rough launch with all the bugs, like the disappearing +1 weapons and gear, did make for a bit of frustration, but I had hopes that it would develop into something great. Seeing them do a bait and switch on Steam by swapping The Last City as a DLC and keeping all the reviews for their new Nexus game mode was the first sign that they were circling the drain for me. I hope one day we will get the VRMMO we all want and dream of.
Lol I like how the example video they had playing in the background when Andy and them are talking is better then anything we got ever
Great breakdown Z, Had lots of fun in Zenith. It's sad but I think it's just another example of a game trying to do too much without having the basics sorted out.
Great video I just came back with my LV40 zantesioken from 2 years ago. Last week claimed the throne and started rades . It's still a great game! So much new content! I ended after grinding the world boss so all my old lv 42 ites are poopoo😂
Pets: yeah well said, the catching and levelling up dynamics, was awesome. And how the perks really helped in raids.
This video hurt. I wasn't able to play for a while due to a shoulder injury, and when I came back... things had changed, but then everything seemed to be getting better. I won't lie; I had a tear in my eye watching some of this.
RIP one of the BEST games there was, bugs or not. The Vision was great, but the direction...
I wana say I will remember everyone that I have met in Zenith more then any game I have met to me zenith was a very Therapeutic game for me and I couldn't get enough even in the hard times you could see the real love I WILL MISS YOU ZENITHEANS!!
Fast flying was a core element to the game that brought people back time after time. I just dont care what anyone says. I played the game maybe 4 more times after that but it was just not the same fun. It wasnt even the fast flight. it was the fact that we could fly anywhere in any direction. It was a core element of exploration not possible on foot. If they ever put it back i would go back to my days of living in this game. Straight up like Kirito, i was in this game 10 hours a night.
Over time Zenith seemed to become less and less coherent and with each new feature more bugs were added than were fixed. I had plenty of fun in Zenith while it lasted, but in the end the grind took over then my friends stopped playing. In the earlier days we actually had a lot of fun playing around with the glitches.
I’m wondering if the fast line was taken out because of the climb to the throne. I went into the PTR this week and I was able to fly right up to the throne.
I think the biggest problem with a lot of MMORPG’s and this happened with World of Warcraft is that it’s hard to balance between casual players and people who can play all day. Sometimes people got bored because they didn’t have enough to do and then other people complain because they couldn’t catch up.
i didnt play zenith much the last 6-8 months, but god it sucked to see it go out like this. i made amazing friends through it. i had friends find romance through it (they now live together) and i had an amazing time with what i played, and i played a TON. i got my moneys worth but god i was wanting so much more from it. heres hoping ramen takes what they learned from zenith and can find success in their next game.
Remember that time you and Hoobie climbed the sky labyrinth on live stream. That was very cool.
That was a ton of fun for sure haha! I think that was the first time I really hung out with hoobie! Definitely a good time!
thanks for the video.
I’m wondering if the fast flying was taken out because of the climb to the throne. I went into the PTR this week and I was able to fly right up to the throne.
No way I remember when you used to make Deepworld videos, I haven’t checked your page in a long time
Haha yes classic days! I even referenced deepworld in this video lol! Hope you been good!
I was enjoying the game, until a few hours in when i could not for the life of me, find how to complete the quest. It was completely broken and i just gave up then. Was really excited to try a VR MMO as well when i got my psvr2 as well.
I just wish square could make a VR update for FFXI. After using VRchat and exploring some of my favourite areas in FFXI, i need it now! Lol
I don't think I ever even got all of my kickstarter backer rewards...
Sadly, it is what it is. That's what happen when CEO and CTO don't listen correctly and leave certain person at key point in their company... I put all the blame on Lauren and Andy for this debacle. They had a vision for their game, but never followed through.
I'll miss our game time together Zstorm and with Toast. Hope to see you guys in the next VRMMO.
@@agey4988 Thanks Zenith Mom! I will always cherish our awesome memories together!!!
When this game started the in game comunnity was really neat. I kind felt like the experience was peak when people were killing world bosses and the other boss fights. I think the game lost its spirit with instances. I miss my Laughing coffin guild and personalities like Polish Hammer
Honestly, I was so hyped over Zenith, but the downfall of this game, was on them. They mentioned working on other games in the background, so they were definitely generating money from Zenith, and it seems to have been going to places other than Zenith. That video they made kinda insinuating that the fans were the reason it failed, but I strongly disagree with it, because they had you, they had toast, they had literal superfans who were beyond passionate about the game.
If they'd fixed existing problems instead of adding more clunky systems, if they'd launched once the overall ui had been polished, it'd have caused less teething issues with people (like myself) having no idea how the systems worked (And RPGs, and MMOs are part of my every day gaming experience). I know it's not the most popular opinion, but they screwed around with Zenith and it blew up in their faces, and as a result, they upset real genuine fans like you guys that created constant hype for it.
In honesty, I don't care how good their next project is, I won't trust the hype or invest in their next game, because they moved on instead of fixing their game, and it was probably a general lack of experience on their part, but they burned themselves with the outcome of Zenith and that f2p microtransaction game they crapped out. I tried to get into Zenith a few times, but the game just wasn't user friendly, and I know of RPG veterns that found the games systems confusing unless they invested an unordinate amount of time into learning them.
I think it's an absolute shame what happened, but my care doesn't go to the Devs, but to their superfans that poured tons of energy and effort into hyping their game and spending hours in it trying to keep it alive. The Devs did not deserve having you and Toast, and the only good that came of it, were the opportunities you all gained from the recognised passion you all shared and the memories you guys made.
Ramen falls under the umbrella of Indie Devs, I’m certain you know this, but they act like they’re a AAA company by not listening to the community. We were willing to help, but we got shut down more times than not. It’s a shame, seeing a game we loved shatter before our eyes…
It baffles me that after so many years we still don't have a proper VR MMO
Hey Z, how ya doing you C’#t
Great little analysis for Zenith. I appreciate it.
-Fractal
Miss you buddy! Hope to hear your sweet accent soon again in the land of Ilysia! Haha
@@ZstormVR Has Ilysia got off the ground yet? Ive been playing Dungeons of Eternity, Ghosts of Tabor. Working IRL. Im pretty keen to play another VR mmorpg.
Hey Cythear was talking about a bunch or ex Zenith and Orbis devs getting together, working in a new game. That could be awesome.
@@ZstormVR looks like Ilysia is open for business. Im going to jump on and check it out. Might see you soon
Zenith launched ok... say whatever, half-naked or whatever, ppl had fun, the problem is that players have seen that the game was going nowhere, what they implemented was no way near what players wanted and playing a game that isn't evolving is not fun, they just didn't listen to the public and that's it, they had a lot of time to implement things that players wanted and they focused on other things, and the players saw that and just left, heck, zenith is good as it is right now, ppl don't play it because they know it isn't going anywhere, tell them to sell the game and u'll see ho players return to it because they know the feature they waited for so long is going to be implemented and not ignores as it was until now.
IMO the problem was direction and that's it.
It doesn't have to die the only problem is the childish owners.
Fast flying removal killed the game.
@@silentbattousai1 ya, certainly didn’t help the cause
@@evandarp exactly. They should have left well enough alone and encouraged people to use the feature maybe reduced the stamina so you couldn't go as far but leave it in.
@@silentbattousai1 it would have been smart to pivot into features that manifests into the game. Intended or unintended fast flying was awesome and I don’t believe it would have broken the dungeons or the climb. It would have made it more fun. We found speed and stamina boosts that effectively created a bypass and fast flying dynamic anyway.
I consider fast flying similar to the ISOS in Tron. When the game architecture gives rise to new evolutionary dynamics. You fkn go with it not kill them off. Idiots.
@@evandarp indeed. They could have had fast flying competitions and winner gets a dungeon key to open such a chest every Wednesday or something. The higher the key count the better the rewards
Races were never delivered
Indeed. Sad we never got to be cat people
Hour long video that could be 1 minute.
I enjoyed it. I wanted to hear his thoughts on Zenith in the end.
Haven't really watched the whole video, but I see you falling into a trap most dedicated players of any game fall into. You blame all the little details and things that turned you off over time after playing a long time. The truth is, the general public was turned off by their first impression at launch. I loved the concept but it never really captured me. I saw announcements for major patches but felt no urge to try it again. Because it never really captured me in the first place. It was a combination of the mobile quality VR graphics, generic content, and awkward UI and systems that had me play for maybe two days and then give up. Maybe it got better, but what motivation did I have to give it another chance? First impressions are everything.
@@exmello yeah, nah. Could be a bit of a superficial analysis there mate. First impressions matter but once you invest time in a task its more about the social payoffs. For a vr game that was at well over 500 daily players just on steam after two years since launch to drop down to 6 daily players. First impressions aren’t what killed Zenith. Poor leadership did, and by that I mean the leaders didn’t listen to and embrase the community direction of the game. All those little details, are actually a symptom of the decision makers “Andy” not embracing the players and dev team as equals and incrementally alienating players and developers to the point where no one wanted to follow him anymore.
what is really f'd up is zenith was the first game i purchased when i bought the quest 3. Now its over? I'm 🥲 I've only had. the Quest 3 a few months
@@jimdkal66 try Dungeons of Eternity. Its a great little game.