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When I was younger I could have done this,but Dr. Mike forgets regular people have a life.I did full bidy workouts for 6 months,every session took almost 3 hours and in the end I started to feel all kind of tendon and joint pain. Maybe I am weak or not built for this, but I think for naturals these type of methods are overkill.
I'm natural and love a six day PPL. You have to find the optimal frequency and volume for your own body. If you use set intensifiers it cuts down the time in the gym significantly. My back days are BB Rows (3 sets), pullups(3 sets), unilateral chest supported rows up to a top set and 3 strip sets (4 sets), unilateral pulldowns (2 sets), bicep and triceps for a top set and 3 drop sets to failure. This all takes me 50 minutes, accounting for people chatting with me.
im getting to where full body just leaves me feeling beat up vs improving so i do one day a week that is power and strength training then the other 3 are hypertrophy and one of those is just shoulders and arms to give myself a little bit of a break
You don't need anywhere near three hours for full body. 2 hours at absolute most and that's pushing it. You can get all you need for full body in 1-1.5 hours three times per week
If ever I do full body im not worrying about overall volume so much as im doing less than any other type of split but im letting frequency take that slack and I still get the same results. For example I might only do 2-3 sets beyond failure per muscle group per workout but then im hitting that muscle with the same every 72 hours so it might only be an overall weekly volume of 6-9 hard sets vs say 16 sets on a different split hitting it once a week but with the frequency it balances out. I've found for myself at least if you are prioritising frequency you can ease off on volume, and visa versa if you're not getting as much frequency you want to be using more volume
Impressive (as always) analysis and dismantling, Steve. I think dr Mike forgot you need over 3g of gear a week lol. No, seriously, I love Mike but sometimes he flies too high in clouds. Luckily it happens very rare.
I like to train a muscle all out to failure, and when i hit failure I back off, rest and recover for 3 days. This works for me, some people may disagree so I suggest trying it before saying it doesn’t work. This method saves me valuable time and energy, my training doesn’t last more than 30 minutes.
Steve, Love the channel ❤. I also watch Dr Mike. A little insight into his thought process: Train Chest/Back/Hammies/Quads Every 3 days (2 days /week) and Side & Rear Delts/Bi’s/Tri’s/Calves Every 2 days (training Back/chest counts as a bi/Triceps day + the solo bi/Triceps day can = 4 days). According to his MRV (max recovery volume) scale: Chest/Back max at 20 sets for 2 x’s per week and 25 sets for 3x’s...Hammies are max 12 sets for 2 x’s and 16 for 3x’s / week. Depending on the stimulus to fatigue ratio, 4 sets of RDL’s twice per week might fry your Hammies while doing 5 sets seated leg curls 3 x’s / wk might fry them the same. I’ve been using his Periodization for about 8 months and found my set groove after trying to max out my growth potential a few failed times 😅. KEEP UP THE GREAT CONTENT...LOVE THE LITTLE MASCOTS ON THE FRIDAY CHATS 😎🤙
When I read between the lines, he's addressing this plan to people who are like "oh this regular shit is taking too long, I wanna go FAST, bro" "Heh. You wanna go fast? Buckle up, buttercup."
There is that culture imbedded in our heads that more is better. What Dr. Mike is saying can’t be farther from the truth unless you are enhanced. As a natural lifter myself I also was a victim of the “do more is better”. I now go to the gym 4 times per week and put only 1 hour max of workout and my gains are by far more significant than ever. Volume is a myth. All I do is one set up to failure and beyond which sometimes (depending on the workout) can turn in to rest pause. I think, and that’s a personal opinion, your muscle responds best when you’re at your strongest and not the weakest. You cannot be at your strongest and yield results on your second or third set but ONLY on your first.
He is talking about bodybuilders who want to try to make it pro. Not just random guys trying to look decent. again, he's clear about this in all of his content. Volume is not a myth. HIT is a great training style, but adding volume can be beneficial. They're just different levers to pull to force stimulus.
I didn’t see dr. Mikes video and probably I should have. But again, I used to do high volume and besides the fact that I was feeling beaten up most of the times, I saw no gains. HIT has give me more gains than volume did.
@@levidesole2764 the bottom line is to find a workout that fits you and your lifestyle. some can and like high volume AND gain on it. others do well on HIT/HIIT stuff. others need to constantly change between both. for me one hard set on big lifts once per week worked good. light/medium/heavy style. like 70kg SQT on Monday 80kg on Wendsday and 90-95kgx5 on Friday or Sunday. or doing full body every day with one decent set slightly above medium in the 5-10 rep range upper body and 10-20 reps lower body. what never worked was high everything, every day, every set to failure. but i work in a warehouse and walk +10k steps und lift stuff every day.
I think Dr Mike's way of training is more aimed towards gear users who can recover faster and get bigger off of pretty much everything, including nipple twists lol.
@@tomashorst9544I got better gains just going all out to failure once and resting for 3 days. I tried his “optimum” volume method watched a bunch of his volume videos but it’s overtraining and my body could feel it.
I did that program for 12 months deloading every other month it works but you will most likely not feel or have time for other things the hardest thing for me was adjusting my calories after because you get used to eating a lot & sleep has to be prioritized or your body will not recover & intensity will fall short & will increase the chances for injuries. Food is my gear.
Great analysis Steve. A consideration about time in the gym is that in practice I think Mike would encourage use of time savers for perhaps 25% of the volume like drop sets, Myo Reps and antagonist supersets. Thanks for continuing to provide interesting videos on UA-cam.
Obviously Dr. Mike who usually preaches Minimum Effective Volume doesn’t intend this to be a long term program or a program for everyone. As a working dad I can’t eat, sleep, and manage stress to perfection so I could never train this way. But it could be really effective if you have everything locked in, thus why it works for the user pros.
I think that approach was toward his advanced/enhanced audience. Just from the recovery element alone it’s way to much volume. 6 days a week is too much even for intermediates in my opinion.
Yes, you are correct and if you watch the original video, you will see the doctor Mike says multiple times that he doesn’t recommend the regular people train this way, or even people who want to be bodybuilders should train this way.
I think this is a fine way to train for a couple mesocycles. Then maybe take a lower volume approach for a bit. Like most things in training, everything has a time and place where it can be utilized, especially with solid programming and periodization
I get up early and lift weights everyday for 1.5hrs with every set to failure and some beyond. U can structure a 7 day a week and do it religiously before work. I do have to eat over 4,500 calories a day to gain. Sometimes 5,000 and meals suck. Lifting to actual failure all the time does mean Im always wrapping something cause this week my elbow hurts, or next my shoulder, or this week I had to back off leg press cause my knee was tight. U also have to commit to something like being asleep by 8pm every night including weekends.
The only time I'd be capable of adhering to something like this for a prolonged period of time would be in the Summer holidays between years at college where I had very few responsibilities and my time could just be spent eating, sleeping, and training.
So I watched the vid in full when it dropped and to be fair to Dr. Mike, the premise is gaining mass as fast as possible in a short time period not the *best* way to gain mass long-term. I think he’d tell you himself this isn’t meant to be sustainable or for people with other real life obligations.
I mentioned several times in my video that this was an elevated program and Mike mentioned it was next level above normal, effective training. Not sure why you need the caveat "to be fair' as I was and didn't slam the program or frame it in any unfair way.
mike should get a few trained individuals, dexa scan before and after, and make them do this, and show us how much insane mass they get from torturing themselves lol
All kinds of atrophy with Mike’s advise for most. Most dont eat or sleep enough and have too much stress in their life to recover from shit like that. Ive tried those things. Got all kinds of pains and gains were good for couple of weeks. After that got wrecked. Was tired all the time and didnt recover at all. 6-12 sets a week goes a long way for most trained individuals trained to 0-2 RIR. Ive dropped a lot of volume and now making better gains than ever after I started considering myself intermediate. Noobie gains are it’s own thing. But intermediate gains are now better than ever with lower (reasonable) volumes.
This isnt dr mikes usual way or preaching how to build muscle, this was a one off topical video. He has volume landmarks and adjust it based on how much sessions were week. MEV, MAV, MRV
I could’ve successfully done this type of program in my teens or 20s probably even early 30s but nowadays in my mid-40s about 15 sets of workout three times a week it’s about all that’s necessary give or take
Most of us aren't the intended audience, unless there's more PED abusers in this community than I realize. I don't follow Dr. Mike, but I do watch his content when it's of interest. I don't think he's too off base for the type of people he works with. Upon committing to compete in bodybuilding in July, I switched my program to something that is very similar to what Dr. Mike presented, but probably more appropriate for natural lifters. I ran high frequency and high volume like the Doc prescribed. However, I limited my volume to the max range of effective volume for each muscle group (Mike overshot by quite a bit). I also only ran it for 9 weeks with a deload/backoff week in the middle. The thought process behind it for me was to take on the volume to learn the new movement patterns, address my deficiencies, get a better handle on working with tempo, and also to adjust my mindset to bodybuilding training. I grew, sure. Fast? I dunno what that even means, we have physical limitations on rate of growth. Now that I'm done with that phase, I'm running a low volume body part split 4 days a week. I think similar programs to Dr. Mikes can be run by natural lifters for phases or mesocycles if the volume is reduced to known effective ranges. Also, it would be better if the the lifter had substantial experience or a coach.
This is more aimed at someone pushing a lot of gear as well. With 2 g's of test 500 tren and a few IU'S of HGH. Then this would be "optimal " for the cycle. But a natural, oh no.
i agree with you in that it just feels better to stay in the goldilocks zone mostly because aggressively ramping up stimulus week to week to the point where i feel like crap and actively need a deload every month or two would probably have a cyclic impact on my mood due to fatigue that i would rather not deal with. i think to give him the benefit of the doubt it isnt an approach that i can see “killing you” because its easy to watch a couple videos and extrapolate a pretty clusterfucky way of programming but if you watch enough (which I have, mostly for the humour) you kinda realize it’s basically fancy autoregulation: - his video basically encourages redlining towards MRV which is based on certain stimulus proxies and gym performance - so if i get rhabdo after 2 weeks and crazy overlapping soreness it is by definition too much - extrapolating 18 sets/muscle based on biceps to figure out how long you would spend in the gym might not be very accurate either if other muscles like hamstrings need far fewer sets
Also Dr.Mike. "If your workout is over two hours long, you have a problem of too many sets." I've been doing it as of late. It is intense, and you have to be mindful of your body; somedays you do less if you have to, or take the odd extra rest day. I'll prolly only do it for another month, or two tops, then cycle back down to normal volume for a while.
Wow, Dr. Mike just has a hoby 😅 Not everyone has time for that, nor nor is it necessary. Lots of people are going to see the best results in that ~4 days a week
Whenever I have time I do it and I love to do it, even till 4 hours. But it’s true that a normal person that has to work, kids, etc does not have the time to invest that long in the gym. So I go as hard as i possibly can
This type of routine reminds me of what the fitness mags pushed in the 80's and 90's... It led me to minimal to no gains and, injuries! I use an A - B - A - off - off split now, train hard for 3 - 6 sets per body part after warm up. I'm usually still sore on the day I'm supposed to repeat the session, ie after 3 - 4 days rest. I'm still playing with decreasing volume.
Question on the assumptions here: wouldn’t major muscle groups require more time to rest and recover before being ready to train again, therefore meaning fewer sets per week needed, not more?
Having practiced Barbell Training for a few years, 6 days a week seems like a bodybuilder program training...if you are heading into a competition. I have gained the most strength from 3-4 days a week, using 70-85% 1RM for my lifts and using the rep goal method. I have never been able to keep my life in balance with 5-6 days of training. I eat whole foods and try to get 3000-3500 calories in a day to supplement my training, sleeping 8-9 hours.
Problably reasonable for someone willing to dedicate their whole life to the gym, managing diet, sleep, stress etc. therefore recovery on point. Or maybe some pharmaceutical help ;)
I have tried this on many occasions but I find it difficult due to time, energy and work/life commitments, I prefer doing this with lighter weights the week after my heavy compound week as it helps keep the muscles moving and aides recovery. I previously got fed up doing it before because of the length of time it took as well as picking the right exercises and I also noticed it was difficult because I didn’t have my diet sorted out.
I watch Dr Mikes videos from time to time only to see how an exercise can be performed for possible better gains. His training advise on volume and humor are both pretty lame though. Even a clock that doesn't work is still right twice a day. So even Dr Mike does have some wisdom in his 5 million years of training. Not a lot but some. Massive Iron you are the one that I put my trust in the most for pretty much all things related to SUCCESSFUL training. Keep up the great work Steve and have a blessed day every day .
I've been taking a 2 set approach per exercise, and it allows me to train near failure without accumulating fatigue after a week and not burn out. Before I was running the classic 5x5/4x10/3x8-12 approach with a coach and despised existing not going to lie
I think too many people don't train with enough intensity. High volume for those people is the right approach. Too much guesswork in RIR, no guesswork needed for "do 12 sets"
Mike trains chest, back and legs twice per week (morning workout), and everything else (in a 2 day split ie : biceps, shoulders/calves,abs,tris) 3X per week in his arvo/night workout. Still a lot of volume. Plus Jiu Jitsu workouts.
I train my biceps directly to failure for 3 sets every 4 days. I’ve gotten the best results in strength and size from doing this. I’ve done 8 sets (to failure) I’ve done 6 sets, I’ve done 12 sets… It just doesn’t work. The single most important thing is going to failure and lifting hard. If you are not progressing, don’t fool yourself. Do the volume that’s necessary, train hard and heavy, rest long and I think most people would be surprised at how much more they’d progress. If 3 sets isn’t working, bump it up to 4 (but make sure those 3 are truly hard and heavy in perfect form).
Interesting video, it is good to actually visualize the actual program. 100% agree on it is a relatively high volumn programming. However, I found Mikes suggestion is not that hard to hit, While he did say 2-4 times a week in this video, he usually recommends hitting large muscle 2 times a week (like chest, back, quad) and smaller muscle group (bicep tricep delt) 3-4 times a week. Your math also did not consider compound movement. Using an arnord split or GVS' split (Torso, Arm, Lower * 2) is quite easy to hit those number because smaller muscle group for arm are kidna trained on the torso day as well. e.g. Weekly volume 84 sets: 12 sets for torso day (2 push + 2 pull)*3 sets (May add 1 or two arm isolation movement if necessary, which will increase the sets num by 3-6) 18 sets for arm day (2 curl + 2 tri + 2 shoulder)*3 set 12 sets for legs (Squat/Lunge + Hip Hinge + Leg extension + Leg curl) *3 set Repeat
If you keep the number of sets to a minimum, a natural guy could easily do this if you have a gym setup at home. Id never tell someone to go to a public gym 6 days a week. Most dont have that kind of time. If youre able, make the investment to be able to train at home. Makes a huge difference.
I wouldn't be able to walk if I did 18 sets for hamstrings per week, 10 sets (6 sets of RDLs/good mornings for max safe reps, 4 sets of lying leg curls for 0 RIR on all sets and as many lengthened partials beyond 0 RIR as possible on final sets) per week is perfect for me... My hamstrings already get sore from low to moderate volumes... I could maybe even get by on even less volume for hamstrings but I am also trying to develop my back so RDLs and good mornings aren't going anywhere
Fullbody every 3rd day 2 exercise per body part 3 sets each. Compounds first and isolation last, 2 sets with a rest pause or drop set on last set of isolations. I have done all splits and Fullbody is by far the best for me. If my nutrition is on point ill be looking like a G.I. Joe 😅 action figure.
I could probably keep up with the lower end of the volume recommendations in his video. Much more than that and I'd probably worry about injury. You might be able to mitigate that with good technique and lots of machine work; however, higher volume, intensity and frequency is riskier than a more conservative approach IMO. With that said, I do think his video is on point for the topic. It's probably not applicable to most lifters (I mean...we're not competitive body builders). We also really don't have hours and hours to spend in the gym.
Dr Mike is right though when he says its the fastest way to build mass, Not the best, but the fastest. At times when I've trained this way I call it 'two steps forward one step back, repeat' as you really do need to take a week off every 3-4 weeks once you feel those overtraining early warning signs kicking in. Which I why I say not the best. as most people don't want to be spending that much time and effort in the gym during the week beating your body up, But he is right. It is the fastest, If you wanted to pack on as much mass as possible in a relative time period
Pretty sure I would not survive his training program without megaroids. But then he also says train til you get a good pump then you're done for the day so which is it?
I don't think he has ever said "train till you get a good pump"... He has however said (on numerous occassions) if you are training a bodypart that gets pumped and you lose your pump at any point during your training it means you are doing TOO MUCH volume or f*cking around.
Yeah for the average person and natural this is overkill.Your CNS would be fried,glycogen levels would stay depleted and even with a high protein intake and calories.The body would spend more time recovering before even building new muscle.Even enhanced this would be overkill and most importantly lead to a injury.
I respect his knowledge and experience, but I see that somehow monetization has crept into his videos and has overshadowed other things. Why I think so? Well I always watch his videos and I sometimes see contradictory stuff. Remember the video that he had put about "going to failure" as a BS? And remember that he clearly says you don't have to train that hard and mentions a research that says 5 RIR can build muscle? Now with this new video of his, it gets even more puzzling. I don't want to bash him, but he is sometimes confusing. I like your approaches and mentality. You have always been practical. I have found your methods to work in real life so I follow your advice first. If Mike's ideas contradict with yours, I take your opinions first not because I like you but because again I have found them to work well. This is also a reminder for you as well to always take into account what you say as people scrutinize it and intend to implement it. I have one piece of criticism about you as an early follower: You seemed to focus more on discipline and dismiss passion while nowadays you bring up passion more. In real life, I found that discipline is more important than passion. Do you remember you gurling up your juicy testicles to get yourself to run in the ice and bad weather? That is much more effective than passion alone.
I feel like alot of mikes workouts are "pain porn" in that they grueling just for the sake of being grueling. It may be fun to try every so often but for a normal unenhanced lifter its not something to make your regular routine
He wasnt like recommending this though, this is for someone who wants to max out everything, basically probably someone who wants to do this as a profession not just a recreational gym goer who wants to look a little better
Im not convinced that youd build muscle faster using this type of method (certainly as a natty), youd spend most of your recovery just getting back to baseline levels instead of progressing
Maybe it's possible that we could gain muscle a little bit faster by doing a ridiculous amount of volume... but is it worth it? Any progress is good progress, so why change it dramatically? I can't imagine being natty and recovering from this. I'm already pushing it with four sessions a week, and I train with serious effort.
Oh, I tried high volume. After a few months, my body was so exhausted, I actually had to lower the weight for the same reps. :)) I will never ever do high volume.
I never cross wires in my response. I stated that this was more of a specialization program and that Dr, Mike said it was beyond normal, effective training. I think many didn't watch either Mike's video or this video. Not once did I ever state this is how Mike tries to train everyone.
He says 4-10 sets per session, per muscle group. Why base the critique off the high end? Could be as low as 12-16 sets per week which is perfectly normal. I think the number of sets per session would depend on how you have your weekly gym training split up. Dr. Mike also caters to a fairly hardcore audience, this wouldn't be for everyone and most likely would only be employed for a short period.
People, this is for a Hollywood actor trying to get into shape for a role who has very little time. DR Mike doesn’t recommend this to the vast majority of people
I disagree with his volume/RIR recommendations. Unless he changed his position on this to my knowledge when he says failure or 0 RIR he means when you reach a rep you can’t perform with perfect technique. His 0 RIR is really anywhere from 3-4 RIR. There’s no reason to hold back it’s just increasing the amount of sets you need to grow and the amount of work you’re doing. If you’re primarily doing compounds 6 days a week by extension is too much for most naturals. 6 days only makes sense when you’re doing lots of isolation work
Judging from the comments on here, no one has a clue what Mike actually teaches. You all are just taking this one vid and making a complete theory on what Mike teaches.
MASSIVE COMMENT CREW... Leave a comment for a chance to win a FREE Massive Iron t-shirt, hoodie, gym bag, whey, or creatine. Shipped anywhere in the world. WINNER will be PICKED and TAGGED on Saturday at 10 am Eastern.
Most of us:
1. Don't take gear.
2. Have a life.
Pretty much nailed it
He said that’s the fastest way. If you can’t do that than that’s fine.
As an insomniac, I would end up hospitalized if I followed this plan.
When I was younger I could have done this,but Dr. Mike forgets regular people have a life.I did full bidy workouts for 6 months,every session took almost 3 hours and in the end I started to feel all kind of tendon and joint pain.
Maybe I am weak or not built for this, but I think for naturals these type of methods are overkill.
I'm natural and love a six day PPL. You have to find the optimal frequency and volume for your own body. If you use set intensifiers it cuts down the time in the gym significantly. My back days are BB Rows (3 sets), pullups(3 sets), unilateral chest supported rows up to a top set and 3 strip sets (4 sets), unilateral pulldowns (2 sets), bicep and triceps for a top set and 3 drop sets to failure. This all takes me 50 minutes, accounting for people chatting with me.
Same here
im getting to where full body just leaves me feeling beat up vs improving so i do one day a week that is power and strength training then the other 3 are hypertrophy and one of those is just shoulders and arms to give myself a little bit of a break
You don't need anywhere near three hours for full body. 2 hours at absolute most and that's pushing it. You can get all you need for full body in 1-1.5 hours three times per week
If ever I do full body im not worrying about overall volume so much as im doing less than any other type of split but im letting frequency take that slack and I still get the same results.
For example I might only do 2-3 sets beyond failure per muscle group per workout but then im hitting that muscle with the same every 72 hours so it might only be an overall weekly volume of 6-9 hard sets vs say 16 sets on a different split hitting it once a week but with the frequency it balances out.
I've found for myself at least if you are prioritising frequency you can ease off on volume, and visa versa if you're not getting as much frequency you want to be using more volume
Impressive (as always) analysis and dismantling, Steve. I think dr Mike forgot you need over 3g of gear a week lol. No, seriously, I love Mike but sometimes he flies too high in clouds. Luckily it happens very rare.
Thanks for watching!
Mike advocates periodization and would not expect anyone to keep us this regimen for longer than 8-10 weeks before a deload
He does state in the video, as I mentioned, deloading every 4th week.
I like to train a muscle all out to failure, and when i hit failure I back off, rest and recover for 3 days. This works for me, some people may disagree so I suggest trying it before saying it doesn’t work. This method saves me valuable time and energy, my training doesn’t last more than 30 minutes.
@Mantastic-ho3vmit sure has, I’m moving up in strength.
Steve, Love the channel ❤. I also watch Dr Mike. A little insight into his thought process: Train Chest/Back/Hammies/Quads Every 3 days (2 days /week) and Side & Rear Delts/Bi’s/Tri’s/Calves Every 2 days (training Back/chest counts as a bi/Triceps day + the solo bi/Triceps day can = 4 days). According to his MRV (max recovery volume) scale: Chest/Back max at 20 sets for 2 x’s per week and 25 sets for 3x’s...Hammies are max 12 sets for 2 x’s and 16 for 3x’s / week. Depending on the stimulus to fatigue ratio, 4 sets of RDL’s twice per week might fry your Hammies while doing 5 sets seated leg curls 3 x’s / wk might fry them the same. I’ve been using his Periodization for about 8 months and found my set groove after trying to max out my growth potential a few failed times 😅. KEEP UP THE GREAT CONTENT...LOVE THE LITTLE MASCOTS ON THE FRIDAY CHATS 😎🤙
When I read between the lines, he's addressing this plan to people who are like "oh this regular shit is taking too long, I wanna go FAST, bro"
"Heh. You wanna go fast? Buckle up, buttercup."
yesss im glad u brought this up from that recent reaction stream
Great video. I asked exactly this in that video’s comment section because I was so thrown off by his usually very pragmatic recommendations.
OH GOD IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR YEARSSSSSS
There is that culture imbedded in our heads that more is better. What Dr. Mike is saying can’t be farther from the truth unless you are enhanced. As a natural lifter myself I also was a victim of the “do more is better”. I now go to the gym 4 times per week and put only 1 hour max of workout and my gains are by far more significant than ever. Volume is a myth. All I do is one set up to failure and beyond which sometimes (depending on the workout) can turn in to rest pause. I think, and that’s a personal opinion, your muscle responds best when you’re at your strongest and not the weakest. You cannot be at your strongest and yield results on your second or third set but ONLY on your first.
He is talking about bodybuilders who want to try to make it pro. Not just random guys trying to look decent. again, he's clear about this in all of his content. Volume is not a myth. HIT is a great training style, but adding volume can be beneficial. They're just different levers to pull to force stimulus.
I didn’t see dr. Mikes video and probably I should have. But again, I used to do high volume and besides the fact that I was feeling beaten up most of the times, I saw no gains. HIT has give me more gains than volume did.
@@levidesole2764 the bottom line is to find a workout that fits you and your lifestyle. some can and like high volume AND gain on it. others do well on HIT/HIIT stuff. others need to constantly change between both.
for me one hard set on big lifts once per week worked good. light/medium/heavy style. like 70kg SQT on Monday 80kg on Wendsday and 90-95kgx5 on Friday or Sunday.
or doing full body every day with one decent set slightly above medium in the 5-10 rep range upper body and 10-20 reps lower body. what never worked was high everything, every day, every set to failure.
but i work in a warehouse and walk +10k steps und lift stuff every day.
So, yes, Dr. Mike IS trying to kill me.
Pretty much
Looking forward to this one
I think Dr Mike's way of training is more aimed towards gear users who can recover faster and get bigger off of pretty much everything, including nipple twists lol.
All kinds of nipples, and all kinds of twists
I got much better gains from incorporating his technique tips natty so I think it depends on the person
@@tomashorst9544his technique videos are on point.
But the programming is for gear users.
@@tomashorst9544I got better gains just going all out to failure once and resting for 3 days. I tried his “optimum” volume method watched a bunch of his volume videos but it’s overtraining and my body could feel it.
Nah, if you actually followed him he goes over this. He doesn’t just say a certain amount of volume is for all people.
I watch you both. The doc has good advice as do you.
I did that program for 12 months deloading every other month it works but you will most likely not feel or have time for other things the hardest thing for me was adjusting my calories after because you get used to eating a lot & sleep has to be prioritized or your body will not recover & intensity will fall short & will increase the chances for injuries. Food is my gear.
Great analysis Steve. A consideration about time in the gym is that in practice I think Mike would encourage use of time savers for perhaps 25% of the volume like drop sets, Myo Reps and antagonist supersets. Thanks for continuing to provide interesting videos on UA-cam.
Obviously Dr. Mike who usually preaches Minimum Effective Volume doesn’t intend this to be a long term program or a program for everyone.
As a working dad I can’t eat, sleep, and manage stress to perfection so I could never train this way. But it could be really effective if you have everything locked in, thus why it works for the user pros.
Correct, and I mentioned that to varying degrees in the video.
I think that approach was toward his advanced/enhanced audience. Just from the recovery element alone it’s way to much volume. 6 days a week is too much even for intermediates in my opinion.
Yes, you are correct and if you watch the original video, you will see the doctor Mike says multiple times that he doesn’t recommend the regular people train this way, or even people who want to be bodybuilders should train this way.
I think this is a fine way to train for a couple mesocycles. Then maybe take a lower volume approach for a bit. Like most things in training, everything has a time and place where it can be utilized, especially with solid programming and periodization
That’s how I use it and when i train like that for a meso cycle. I take a week off completely after the Deload week.
I even can't recover from 3 times full body per week 😅
I'm glad you said this, subscribed!
I get up early and lift weights everyday for 1.5hrs with every set to failure and some beyond. U can structure a 7 day a week and do it religiously before work. I do have to eat over 4,500 calories a day to gain. Sometimes 5,000 and meals suck. Lifting to actual failure all the time does mean Im always wrapping something cause this week my elbow hurts, or next my shoulder, or this week I had to back off leg press cause my knee was tight. U also have to commit to something like being asleep by 8pm every night including weekends.
I think people miss the point of Dr.Mike's video. It's how to build muscles as fast as possible not as sustainable as possible.
"The Bar Needs to slow down , if it doesn't it's a warm up" , pretty ironic coming from Mike specially , no ? 😂
This will be good!
Thanks for watching
The only time I'd be capable of adhering to something like this for a prolonged period of time would be in the Summer holidays between years at college where I had very few responsibilities and my time could just be spent eating, sleeping, and training.
So I watched the vid in full when it dropped and to be fair to Dr. Mike, the premise is gaining mass as fast as possible in a short time period not the *best* way to gain mass long-term. I think he’d tell you himself this isn’t meant to be sustainable or for people with other real life obligations.
I mentioned several times in my video that this was an elevated program and Mike mentioned it was next level above normal, effective training. Not sure why you need the caveat "to be fair' as I was and didn't slam the program or frame it in any unfair way.
mike should get a few trained individuals, dexa scan before and after, and make them do this, and show us how much insane mass they get from torturing themselves lol
And find out how many burn out or get injured. No hate, but this is truly a meat-grinder program.
The Sheiko of hypertrophy programs.
Enjoying the content...
Thank you
All kinds of atrophy with Mike’s advise for most. Most dont eat or sleep enough and have too much stress in their life to recover from shit like that. Ive tried those things. Got all kinds of pains and gains were good for couple of weeks. After that got wrecked. Was tired all the time and didnt recover at all. 6-12 sets a week goes a long way for most trained individuals trained to 0-2 RIR. Ive dropped a lot of volume and now making better gains than ever after I started considering myself intermediate. Noobie gains are it’s own thing. But intermediate gains are now better than ever with lower (reasonable) volumes.
yea, its fine to run some volume for a short while, but honestly you just end up beating yourself up faster than you can heal if you stick with it
Great quality content!
Much appreciated!
Here for the gains!!! 🏋️♀️💪
Grow time
@@MassiveIron yessir! 🫡💪
This isnt dr mikes usual way or preaching how to build muscle, this was a one off topical video. He has volume landmarks and adjust it based on how much sessions were week. MEV, MAV, MRV
I could’ve successfully done this type of program in my teens or 20s probably even early 30s but nowadays in my mid-40s about 15 sets of workout three times a week it’s about all that’s necessary give or take
Thank u for always posting a good content ma meen 👍
Thanks for watching
Most of us aren't the intended audience, unless there's more PED abusers in this community than I realize. I don't follow Dr. Mike, but I do watch his content when it's of interest. I don't think he's too off base for the type of people he works with. Upon committing to compete in bodybuilding in July, I switched my program to something that is very similar to what Dr. Mike presented, but probably more appropriate for natural lifters. I ran high frequency and high volume like the Doc prescribed. However, I limited my volume to the max range of effective volume for each muscle group (Mike overshot by quite a bit). I also only ran it for 9 weeks with a deload/backoff week in the middle. The thought process behind it for me was to take on the volume to learn the new movement patterns, address my deficiencies, get a better handle on working with tempo, and also to adjust my mindset to bodybuilding training. I grew, sure. Fast? I dunno what that even means, we have physical limitations on rate of growth. Now that I'm done with that phase, I'm running a low volume body part split 4 days a week. I think similar programs to Dr. Mikes can be run by natural lifters for phases or mesocycles if the volume is reduced to known effective ranges. Also, it would be better if the the lifter had substantial experience or a coach.
This is more aimed at someone pushing a lot of gear as well. With 2 g's of test 500 tren and a few IU'S of HGH. Then this would be "optimal " for the cycle. But a natural, oh no.
i agree with you in that it just feels better to stay in the goldilocks zone mostly because aggressively ramping up stimulus week to week to the point where i feel like crap and actively need a deload every month or two would probably have a cyclic impact on my mood due to fatigue that i would rather not deal with.
i think to give him the benefit of the doubt it isnt an approach that i can see “killing you” because its easy to watch a couple videos and extrapolate a pretty clusterfucky way of programming but if you watch enough (which I have, mostly for the humour) you kinda realize it’s basically fancy autoregulation:
- his video basically encourages redlining towards MRV which is based on certain stimulus proxies and gym performance
- so if i get rhabdo after 2 weeks and crazy overlapping soreness it is by definition too much
- extrapolating 18 sets/muscle based on biceps to figure out how long you would spend in the gym might not be very accurate either if other muscles like hamstrings need far fewer sets
I'd engoy a mini series following you doing your work out month, perhaps a short vid with a voice over.
I think it will be doable with 1-2 muscles trained in mike's fast method n rest bodyparts as usual n rotating after few weeks.
I feel fatigue even thinking about this
Volume was never adherable for me, and literally only resulted in less gains compared to highly adherable much shorter HIT training programs.
Also Dr.Mike. "If your workout is over two hours long, you have a problem of too many sets." I've been doing it as of late. It is intense, and you have to be mindful of your body; somedays you do less if you have to, or take the odd extra rest day. I'll prolly only do it for another month, or two tops, then cycle back down to normal volume for a while.
I couldn't recover from that, despite the fact i'm still young. Even jobless with 10h of sleep and 500kcal above my maintenance lol
Wow, Dr. Mike just has a hoby 😅
Not everyone has time for that, nor nor is it necessary. Lots of people are going to see the best results in that ~4 days a week
Another great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Mike mentzer is spinning in his grave
Whenever I have time I do it and I love to do it, even till 4 hours. But it’s true that a normal person that has to work, kids, etc does not have the time to invest that long in the gym. So I go as hard as i possibly can
This type of routine reminds me of what the fitness mags pushed in the 80's and 90's... It led me to minimal to no gains and, injuries! I use an A - B - A - off - off split now, train hard for 3 - 6 sets per body part after warm up. I'm usually still sore on the day I'm supposed to repeat the session, ie after 3 - 4 days rest. I'm still playing with decreasing volume.
Exactly
🫡 notified
Algo
Question on the assumptions here: wouldn’t major muscle groups require more time to rest and recover before being ready to train again, therefore meaning fewer sets per week needed, not more?
Major muscle groups are always trained with more sets than minor, in nearly every program
Having practiced Barbell Training for a few years, 6 days a week seems like a bodybuilder program training...if you are heading into a competition. I have gained the most strength from 3-4 days a week, using 70-85% 1RM for my lifts and using the rep goal method. I have never been able to keep my life in balance with 5-6 days of training. I eat whole foods and try to get 3000-3500 calories in a day to supplement my training, sleeping 8-9 hours.
Problably reasonable for someone willing to dedicate their whole life to the gym, managing diet, sleep, stress etc. therefore recovery on point. Or maybe some pharmaceutical help ;)
I have tried this on many occasions but I find it difficult due to time, energy and work/life commitments, I prefer doing this with lighter weights the week after my heavy compound week as it helps keep the muscles moving and aides recovery. I previously got fed up doing it before because of the length of time it took as well as picking the right exercises and I also noticed it was difficult because I didn’t have my diet sorted out.
I think this will lead to injuries. Gym would have to be your job at that point
I watch Dr Mikes videos from time to time only to see how an exercise can be performed for possible better gains. His training advise on volume and humor are both pretty lame though. Even a clock that doesn't work is still right twice a day. So even Dr Mike does have some wisdom in his 5 million years of training. Not a lot but some. Massive Iron you are the one that I put my trust in the most for pretty much all things related to SUCCESSFUL training. Keep up the great work Steve and have a blessed day every day .
I've been taking a 2 set approach per exercise, and it allows me to train near failure without accumulating fatigue after a week and not burn out.
Before I was running the classic 5x5/4x10/3x8-12 approach with a coach and despised existing not going to lie
I find if I start doing crazy amounts of sets I just don’t sleep. No idea why, but I just stay wide awake
I think too many people don't train with enough intensity. High volume for those people is the right approach. Too much guesswork in RIR, no guesswork needed for "do 12 sets"
Step 1 - Build intensity. Step 2 - Them build work capacity.
Mike trains chest, back and legs twice per week (morning workout), and everything else (in a 2 day split ie : biceps, shoulders/calves,abs,tris) 3X per week in his arvo/night workout. Still a lot of volume. Plus Jiu Jitsu workouts.
I train my biceps directly to failure for 3 sets every 4 days.
I’ve gotten the best results in strength and size from doing this. I’ve done 8 sets (to failure) I’ve done 6 sets, I’ve done 12 sets…
It just doesn’t work. The single most important thing is going to failure and lifting hard. If you are not progressing, don’t fool yourself.
Do the volume that’s necessary, train hard and heavy, rest long and I think most people would be surprised at how much more they’d progress.
If 3 sets isn’t working, bump it up to 4 (but make sure those 3 are truly hard and heavy in perfect form).
If you gain more training 6 days a week I’m doing 12! Makes sense to me.
Interesting video, it is good to actually visualize the actual program. 100% agree on it is a relatively high volumn programming. However, I found Mikes suggestion is not that hard to hit, While he did say 2-4 times a week in this video, he usually recommends hitting large muscle 2 times a week (like chest, back, quad) and smaller muscle group (bicep tricep delt) 3-4 times a week. Your math also did not consider compound movement. Using an arnord split or GVS' split (Torso, Arm, Lower * 2) is quite easy to hit those number because smaller muscle group for arm are kidna trained on the torso day as well.
e.g. Weekly volume 84 sets:
12 sets for torso day (2 push + 2 pull)*3 sets (May add 1 or two arm isolation movement if necessary, which will increase the sets num by 3-6)
18 sets for arm day (2 curl + 2 tri + 2 shoulder)*3 set
12 sets for legs (Squat/Lunge + Hip Hinge + Leg extension + Leg curl) *3 set
Repeat
He forgot to mention the secret sauce….. DRUGS
Not realistic for me I work full-time as a welder. I enjoy lifting 3 times a week and most of my muscles get hit only once a week directly.
Maybe the fastest for a few people but certainly not the most enjoyable or sustainable.
If you keep the number of sets to a minimum, a natural guy could easily do this if you have a gym setup at home. Id never tell someone to go to a public gym 6 days a week. Most dont have that kind of time. If youre able, make the investment to be able to train at home. Makes a huge difference.
i hate how most internet fitness gurus dont account for people with manuel labor jobs. No way i could train 6 days with my job.
Even if I was a slug this would kill me
Or has a life outside the gym.
I wouldn't be able to walk if I did 18 sets for hamstrings per week, 10 sets (6 sets of RDLs/good mornings for max safe reps, 4 sets of lying leg curls for 0 RIR on all sets and as many lengthened partials beyond 0 RIR as possible on final sets) per week is perfect for me... My hamstrings already get sore from low to moderate volumes... I could maybe even get by on even less volume for hamstrings but I am also trying to develop my back so RDLs and good mornings aren't going anywhere
Fullbody every 3rd day 2 exercise per body part 3 sets each.
Compounds first and isolation last, 2 sets with a rest pause or drop set on last set of isolations. I have done all splits and Fullbody is by far the best for me. If my nutrition is on point ill be looking like a G.I. Joe 😅 action figure.
I do full-body every 4th day. Getting great results
In myvexperience more has been better. More intensity more volume more frequency more food. I tried the minimalist stuff for years.
I would say in general modern bodybuilding has gravitated towards "less"... Fewer exercises, fewer dumbbells, fewer machines, fewer hard sets.
No possible way I could fit that type of programming into my life. More importantly, I'm not sure I'd want to. Maybe for an enhanced 20 year old.
I could probably keep up with the lower end of the volume recommendations in his video. Much more than that and I'd probably worry about injury. You might be able to mitigate that with good technique and lots of machine work; however, higher volume, intensity and frequency is riskier than a more conservative approach IMO.
With that said, I do think his video is on point for the topic. It's probably not applicable to most lifters (I mean...we're not competitive body builders). We also really don't have hours and hours to spend in the gym.
Dr Mike is right though when he says its the fastest way to build mass, Not the best, but the fastest. At times when I've trained this way I call it 'two steps forward one step back, repeat' as you really do need to take a week off every 3-4 weeks once you feel those overtraining early warning signs kicking in.
Which I why I say not the best. as most people don't want to be spending that much time and effort in the gym during the week beating your body up, But he is right. It is the fastest, If you wanted to pack on as much mass as possible in a relative time period
Keep in mind the doctor cruises on 500mg / week.
And is the increase in risk of sciatica, tendinitis, and even muscle imbalance (as not all muscles develop at the same rate) worth it
Bro I'm 170 and I don't think I'll ever lift 2 plates on my bench.
Mike never said this was the best way to train, the safest, or the most reasonable, just the fastest way to put on mass
I never said he said this was the best way to train.
Pretty sure I would not survive his training program without megaroids. But then he also says train til you get a good pump then you're done for the day so which is it?
Those two styles of training are a bit at odds. Then again, this video is about maximum mass.
I don't think he has ever said "train till you get a good pump"... He has however said (on numerous occassions) if you are training a bodypart that gets pumped and you lose your pump at any point during your training it means you are doing TOO MUCH volume or f*cking around.
Yeah for the average person and natural this is overkill.Your CNS would be fried,glycogen levels would stay depleted and even with a high protein intake and calories.The body would spend more time recovering before even building new muscle.Even enhanced this would be overkill and most importantly lead to a injury.
I respect his knowledge and experience, but I see that somehow monetization has crept into his videos and has overshadowed other things. Why I think so? Well I always watch his videos and I sometimes see contradictory stuff. Remember the video that he had put about "going to failure" as a BS? And remember that he clearly says you don't have to train that hard and mentions a research that says 5 RIR can build muscle? Now with this new video of his, it gets even more puzzling. I don't want to bash him, but he is sometimes confusing.
I like your approaches and mentality. You have always been practical. I have found your methods to work in real life so I follow your advice first. If Mike's ideas contradict with yours, I take your opinions first not because I like you but because again I have found them to work well. This is also a reminder for you as well to always take into account what you say as people scrutinize it and intend to implement it. I have one piece of criticism about you as an early follower: You seemed to focus more on discipline and dismiss passion while nowadays you bring up passion more. In real life, I found that discipline is more important than passion. Do you remember you gurling up your juicy testicles to get yourself to run in the ice and bad weather? That is much more effective than passion alone.
I feel like alot of mikes workouts are "pain porn" in that they grueling just for the sake of being grueling. It may be fun to try every so often but for a normal unenhanced lifter its not something to make your regular routine
Steroid users can train like this, but most naturals can't. It's a recipe for fatigue and burnout.
He wasnt like recommending this though, this is for someone who wants to max out everything, basically probably someone who wants to do this as a profession not just a recreational gym goer who wants to look a little better
By making the video be de facto did encourage it
Im not convinced that youd build muscle faster using this type of method (certainly as a natty), youd spend most of your recovery just getting back to baseline levels instead of progressing
Same. With every 4th week deloading, I'd rather find something more moderate that I could sustain for 12-16 weeks.
Maybe it's possible that we could gain muscle a little bit faster by doing a ridiculous amount of volume... but is it worth it? Any progress is good progress, so why change it dramatically? I can't imagine being natty and recovering from this. I'm already pushing it with four sessions a week, and I train with serious effort.
Oh, I tried high volume.
After a few months, my body was so exhausted, I actually had to lower the weight for the same reps. :))
I will never ever do high volume.
That's what deloads and recovery resets are for
@@arihaviv8510 Deloads? :))
You only need "Deloads" if you overtrain and fuck up your ligaments and muscles...
This kind of BS is what leads to the pendulum swinging back towards the Mentnzer approach.
Clearly most people missed the point of mikes video
I never cross wires in my response. I stated that this was more of a specialization program and that Dr, Mike said it was beyond normal, effective training. I think many didn't watch either Mike's video or this video. Not once did I ever state this is how Mike tries to train everyone.
He says 4-10 sets per session, per muscle group. Why base the critique off the high end? Could be as low as 12-16 sets per week which is perfectly normal. I think the number of sets per session would depend on how you have your weekly gym training split up. Dr. Mike also caters to a fairly hardcore audience, this wouldn't be for everyone and most likely would only be employed for a short period.
People, this is for a Hollywood actor trying to get into shape for a role who has very little time. DR Mike doesn’t recommend this to the vast majority of people
I disagree with his volume/RIR recommendations. Unless he changed his position on this to my knowledge when he says failure or 0 RIR he means when you reach a rep you can’t perform with perfect technique. His 0 RIR is really anywhere from 3-4 RIR. There’s no reason to hold back it’s just increasing the amount of sets you need to grow and the amount of work you’re doing. If you’re primarily doing compounds 6 days a week by extension is too much for most naturals. 6 days only makes sense when you’re doing lots of isolation work
I like Dr Mike, he is awsome :)
Judging from the comments on here, no one has a clue what Mike actually teaches. You all are just taking this one vid and making a complete theory on what Mike teaches.
Mike works in the fitness industry and like others they become detached in regards to how much free time we have throughout the week.
He said maximize muscle growth? He's not telling you that you NEED to workout 6 days a week, he's just saying you'll get the most gains from it
@@lm13eddfs He’s probably correct but I would venture to say volume roughly equated the differences between 4 and 6 days a week would be marginal.
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@@MassiveIrontotally stocked to see polish "conversation" here 😊❤
Does the Good Doctor really put his plan into daily practice? I'm skeptical,but it's in my nature. No, not for me. But I'm not the doctor.