I was aware my legs are sore for longer but this is definitely new knowledge. I saw a comment on another video saying "I've learned more on your channel in 1 month than I have from anyone else in the last 4 years" and I can say the same applies to me, Thanks Dr. Mike
Needed this on this fine Wednesday. Thanks Dr. Mike! Congratulations on the release of your book, it’s a monumental tool that will forever be utilized. 🙏
The fact that you put out so much content for free on YT is still mind boggling to me. I've recently gotten away from PPL, UL and similar splits and favor adjusting volume and programming individually per muscle group. It makes my workouts a bit more sporadic but the progress has been great. Thanks for content!
Hmm wouldn't the frequency of those splits still make a lot of sense if you adjust the per session volume based on mrv and recovery capabilities per muscle group?
I did PPL-rest-UL-rest since it fit nice in a predictable schedule to build my life around, but once the gyms open up I might adjust it a bit more to my recovery and goals. Homework-outs have been disastrous for my legs, my chronic pain makes repetition overload hurt like hell and at some point I just couldn't grab enough resistance. Meanwhile my biceps/triceps have grown quite significantly, shoulders and back look good but strength hasn't increased as much as I like, chest I got no clue and abs are a nightmare as always. Plan is to practically crawl home from destroying my legs as often as recovery allows and fill the rest with core / chest > back / shoulders > triceps > biceps. A girl at my gym basically does hip trusts every session, her strength increase is hard to argue with, she only tracks that and then does 'fillers' by feel / to failure. Once set up that sounds pretty dreamy though I fear my quads are what needs the most work... My god.
It does still make it a 'split however, it's more individualized. I now have more specific 'add ons' to some of my larger muscle groups without feeling restricted to matching them to frequency of a typical set day. It also allows me to hit a lagging body part on top of a day I use for stronger body parts without the overlapping fatigue.
Everyone deals with this issue. You either end up undertraining upper body or overtraining lower body & having near-constant inflammation in your legs. It's exacerbated by the fact that a lot of us are in sports that also use the lower body. Tbh most people cant train legs hard more than 1-2x per week. I try to do 1 heavy day & 1 high volume "light" day with more accessory work
This has really become an issue that I've only recognized in myself recently. One would think one inflamed Achilles-tendon and hurt hip flexor would have been enough of a clue, but it actually took one of my friends pointing it out for me to realize.
But if you spam your abilities in the wrong order you'll find that you are causing a bottleneck in skill use and perhaps minute delays in aoe, direct and melee damage especially with the boss spawn buddies etc. I miss playing mmorpgs! lol Whats good these days?
@@KenanTurkiye I stopped playing mmorpgs because they were too big of a distraction and just too much fun. The last one I played was guild wars 2 and I had a good time.
Yep. Took me 18 months to get it kind of close. Shoulders and arms as priority on these meso cycles. Shoulders bis and tris 4x a week. Legs once a week. And a/b split chest and back 2 times each a week. Has been solid af
pls share how you split it. i feel like i shouldn’t hit tris the day before chest day which really makes hitting them even 3x/week hard. i’d love to know your split.
@@zchmak my split doesn’t mean it’ll work for your split. Find what works for you. Have fun. It’s not all about science. And if your results suck it’s because your training, diet, or sleep suck. Not the split.
@@thghtfl Yeah, i have tried different workouts (frequency, volume, intensity) but my chest, tri's and hamstrings can't handle a lot of volume/frequency.
I have the same thing. My hamstrings just get so much more sore compared to my quads. Chest however never gets sore from lots of volume. I don’t know if I should focus on total weekly volume or more about stimulating the growth with the quality. For example hitting hamstrings directly only 7 times per week.
Anterior pelvic tilt FTW?? Ultimately, your numbers are your numbers. I’d rather have lower quad MRV because squatting to failure is way more painful than Romanian deads to failure 😂
Yeah it shouldnt really come as a surprise that the most optimal programming is the one with the most micro specificity. With that said it's also the one that's the most difficult to get right, probably why so many fall back on PPL/UL splits.
As a result, train how u like but train hard. I’ve been doing bro split for 2 years and results are greater than any other split that I did, because I found that how my muscles respond. High volume moderate intensity and low frequency. I nearly tried everything. Even full body 5 days a week lol. But when I crush my body part and dedicate my day to one muscle ,this makes me feel amazing. I just train my lateral delt and calves two times a week. Shoulders arms , they still workin 2-3 times a week even if u do bro split. Chest back legs can rest especially legs
I only work out 3 days a week so for me this could look like: Workout A: Chest, Lats/Back, Delts, Arms Work out B: Lower but then throw in inverted rows, a curl variation, and face pulls.
I back at doin arm cables superset first as I walking gym. I try 3 days a week of this. Shoulder day /pull day /push day. And see how I go Thanks for good video
Once I started doing concentric only exercises 3 weeks ago my body composition has improved more than my previous decade of training. I train the same muscles everyday.
Honestly man, if you were training for an entire decade and less than a month is seeing significant results due to alternative training, it sounds like your original training was just extremely poorly constructed. Even the most mediocre of bro workouts that applied progressive overload and allowed for proper recovery would result in respectable gains in a decade. For 99% of people, regular lifting works when programed correctly. If this exotic approach works for you, go for it, but I'd highly consider severely reevaluating your previous programming and find its deficiencies.
@@jarenblenart8685 You're right on those points. I guess another way of looking at it is that because so many things changed during that 10+ year period and my training motivation was higher than my recoverability (due to all types of stress) maybe getting rid of the eccentric is showing me that i have really bad recoverability that only this type of training is working for me.
i follow this: legs/back/bicep, chest/tricep/shoulder both 2/3 times a week, all groups 2 exercises 3/4 sets. it heals pretty much all the same. maybe cuz back and biceps work 2gether and push works 2gether or i do go closer 2 failure on shoulders and arms
I personally try to use intensity to make up for the differences between muscles. For example: I only do drop sets on the last set of an exercise for the larger muscles whereas for the smaller ones like biceps, every set is a drop set. I would guess it’s the same as changing the volume but for me as an intermediate lifter, this lets me get away with less volume to save time while still providing a sufficient stimulus for all muscle groups Plus the pump is amazing after 3 or 4 drop sets of curls.
I have this issue,my legs take 2 weeks,upper big muscle groups I can't train more than once a week,I could train small groups 2-3 times a week,I eventually settled on a type of brosplit personalised for my specific deficits😅
I personally need to develop that way too advanced excel spreadsheet for what muscles to work out based on general recovery time, otherwise I end up hurting myself because I am way too overconfident. I need dat structure
Yes. I run a modified PPL over 6 days, with biceps, medial and rear delt work on both push and pull days so they get hit 4x weekly and legs back and chest get hit twice weekly, respectively.
@@timothyhunt2280 I built my own using Mikes principles, it just happens to have come out looking very much like a PPL with some additional accessories. Try not to be too rigid with your designs and look at your progress honestly. If you think you could be working something harder and adding more weight to the bar just isn’t doing it for you, increased frequencies might help!
your UA-cam channel is Awesome I like the way you get right to the point and the way you explain everything I have a question do it really matter if you don't have a set days to train each body part or just as long you hit each body part weekly and train them hard give recovery time ???
I understand the majority of what you're saying, but my question is, do you weigh assistance muscles' sets to the same extent as if it was the primary muscle for a set? So for example, would you count 3 sets of bench as Chest:3 Triceps:3 AnteriorDelt:3 ? My initial thought would be not including bench in delt volume, but surely if you were to do 6 sets, your delts would take a hit. On the other hand, if you do include benching in your delt volume, surely they wont grow as much as an actual targeted exercise like an OHP. SO would you count bench or not? This is the main thing that confuses me, same with glutes, so many leg exercises will hit glutes, whether is a quad or hamstring focused exercise, so if you were to count all the movements that have glutes included (but not the main focus) your glutes volume would be so much higher than the rest of your bigger muscle groups
Your ability to isolate via equipment and mind muscle connection is going to drastically affect your ability to execute this paradigm, and is likely why there is such variable numbers. Your dumbbell incline bench might drill your anterior delts real bad because you didn’t go deep, but they catch up and then your chest takes the damage next week as you resolve to go deeper next time. It’s a moving target because you changed the exercise. But this is OK. You are seeking to progressively overload all movements and weak points reveal themselves at different times in your lifting career. I’m using a Donnie Thompson Bow tie for a couple months because my shoulders are always compromised but I failed to overcome the back weakness in my last two mesocycles. That’s my weak point but I’m not stopping my bench. So yeah, I will isolate using equipment to engage more delts. And this will ruin my MRV numbers, because I was not using enough Ant Delt to begin with. Don’t worry about it. Use one truly isolating exercise for the body part, and allow the compound movements to spread over the joints as intended. You will figure out what needs to happen over the next 12 months. Training is not a basic formula and you can’t learn your body in a short timeframe.
@@Xplora213 "Your ability to isolate via equipment and mind muscle connection is going to drastically affect your ability to execute this paradigm, and is likely why there is such variable numbers." - wow, coming out strong!
I would only count working sets towards volume. So sets close to failure were it is obvious which muscle gave up. If your triceps fail you on bench then I would count that as tricep volume. If they don't, then I wouldn't. (And, if you like to complicate things like me, and you are wondering how you work out MRV and such.... Well, same as usual, but you may need to reassess where you are at when you design a new meso or change program/exercise order.) OOooorrr just go with this. If you feel weak in multiple workouts in a row then its too much. If you feel strong then GET AFTER IT
@@AngryOscillator 😂 the borderline trolling is awesome. My point is really that our guy is getting really twisted up over minor details. I have some rounding in my right shoulder that I’m aggressively addressing now. My rear deltoid and the rhomboid and blah blah blah doesn’t fire properly so it’s really hard to monitor the maximum recoverable volume for the surrounding muscles. Just yesterday, getting a massage after heavy deadlifts.... my right upper back is fine but the Left side is tight and the right mid back is like steel cables!! I am transferring the effort from my shoulder to the rest of my back and it’s killing my gains. Our friend is worried about his anterior delts MRV when he might not even be working them very hard because of his personal circumstances. Just like I can’t get my shoulder to behave.
Common sense makes sense. EXCEPT judging if you recovered by DOMS is useless because if you're getting DOMS in certain muscles you simply are not training often enough. Once your frequency goes up DOMS disappear. Then what? How do you know if your muscles healed if they are not sore at all?
I've completely hit plateaus on every freaking muscle group Im So frustrated, my arms are not really sore but they feel weak as fuck and my chest is the same way. I don't know what to do, appetite has decreased sleep is only now getting better have I over trained or???
I was thinking of doing push and biceps, legs, then pull and triceps twice a week but with a rest day after 3 days. Was hoping this would help add abit more frequency to training the arm muscles and maybe side delts on pull day too. Thoughts?
Sounds like a good split. you could even try adding some bicep work to the end of the other days as well. it doesn’t have to be 8 sets each time you hit biceps, it’s about hitting them when they’re recovered. I saw great results when i did some training blocks hitting biceps 4x/week but just 3 sets per workout, maybe give that a try?
@@rossjeffrey9281 i’ve never done a training block focusing on them but i think if you’re just doing lateral raises, you could do them 4 times a week as long as you’re feeling recovered. they’re a small muscle group and recover quickly.
Hey doc what you think about outgrowing of upper body to legs as I run almost everyday (please I can't stop lifting and running) but I never could do more than 3 to 4 squat sets for quads and 3 rdls for hams. Will my upper body optimally grow If lower body body doesn't grow or say maintain its size n strength ???
It's fine, your upper body might even grow faster than if you tained legs harder due to extra available recovery capacity. However, it would probably be recommended to keep doing at least some heavy work for legs, as I believe your body grows better when it's stimulated in whole.
Do those six sets twice a week and don’t worry about your legs any more than that. Running steals recoverable volume from your lower body so progress will be a little slower but its not life-ending.
Running beyond 1 mile will encourage slow twitch fibres quite a lot and will kill your ability to display your genetic maximal strength. That’s absolutely fine, but remember you are training legs every day if you run every day. A body builder walks or rides slowly to reduce that catabolic effect from strenuous cardio. Maximising your training is only relevant if you want to maximise the results, and that requires some level of specialisation. If you aren’t there, don’t worry too much. Just try to progressively overload as best you can and avoid injury as best you can. De loading the running will help more than you think if your volume is truly big.
What panatiotis said, the upper body will probably grow better if you neglect the legs. Less systemic fatigue. You could if you really wanted to JUST train your biceps and have MASSIVE biceps and tiny everything else... if thats what you are into haha
How do you hit a muscle 4x per week? If you hit the muscle every other day you would be scheduled to workout that muscle 4x week 1 and 3 and 3x week 2 and 4.
Easy, if you want to hit biceps 4x per week over 2 weeks, you go: Sun - Biceps Mon Tue - Biceps Wed Thu - Biceps Fri Sat - Biceps Sun Mon - Biceps Tue Wed - Biceps Thu Fri - Biceps Sat Sun - Biceps
What if you train twice per day, one session in the AM for heavy work applied towards bigger muscles, and one session in the PM for isolation work for smaller muscle groups like biceps and calves? Is that optimal?
If you have the time I think that is ideal. Me personally on Pushdays, after training Chest and Shoulders, I dont have energy to give 100% effort in Tris. But i dont have the time
Same or different muscles groups? There have been studies that show training cardio or volume work after heavy lifting actually disrupts the growth/recovery stage. But thats doing squats AM and then a run PM for example. Doing squats AM and then back and biceps in the evening should be fine. (Don't know how old that study was or if its still relevant)
@@AngryOscillator Do you know the study's title so I can look it up? My idea was to train just arms/neck in the PM sessions since these are lagging body parts of mine, every day, for a mesocicle
@@d3f3kt57 I don't, no. I think I heard Nippard talking about it in a video a couple of years ago 🤷♂️ sorry I don't see why neck would be an issue though, so long as you obviously don't go mental on it haha Arms gets a bit more tricky because of the crossover with other, heavy compound moves...but then I suppose if you are benching for chest am and then doing arms pm it should be fine. From what I remember it's only an issue if it's the exact same muscles in use, the activity in the muscle disturbs the recovery response from the earlier work. Doing lat pull downs and bent rows in the am followed by biceps in the pm should be OK too, you'd just go into the session a bit pre-exhausted. Wouldn't recommend for strength training but for size it shouldn't be too much of an issue... just don't go doing curls am then rows pm 😆 Also, have you seen the series Mike has put up recently showing how they train. They have am and pm sessions, could be worth checking if you haven't already (the leg sessions are choice as ever too!)
in my case, my lats recover faster, so i'd put them in small group. My midback and upper back takes a little more time. my back routine is 70% row, and 20% pull up. %10 posterior delt
With the time limits I face and my age (66), my default frequency is once per week, except for body parts I can't grow at all without higher frequency (calves twice on the days I do cardio).
Being in a similar situation (61 yrs), I've found a compromise that has worked well for me. I divide my body into 4 workouts; but workout 5 days a week (M-F), and run each workout in sequence carrying over from week to week (aka M - 1, Tu - 2, Wed - 3, Th - 4, Fri - 1, M - 2, Tu - 3, Wed - 4, Th - 1, Fri - 2, ...). The result is that each week I start out on Monday (while fresh & strong) with a different workout...each workout gets to benefit from eventually being on a Monday after the weekend recovery and each week one of the workouts gets done twice (providing a little extra frequency without overdoing it). Because I have always worked out very hard, this style routine worked well for me in my younger years too...allowing me to carry a bit more muscle than the average non-competitor gym rat. Just a thought. Cheers!
Maybe larger muscles like your quads require higher protein requirement to recover at the same rate. It makes sense to think that legs would require more nutrition to recover than arms or most upper body muscles
What do you think of upper lower prog in which just 2 exercises fo each muscle and one for biceps with total 21 sets and 70 reps with RPE around 8 as an example..is it enough specially some muscles not trained at all
Beardsley/Krieger have shown evidence that states its a myth that 'smaller' muscles recover faster and everything recovers at roughly similar rates (quads one of the fastest recovering and chest one of the slowest recovering). Your take on this?
Lol I'm interested to check out this study. Curious how they prescribed volume/load for the various muscle groups Pretty easy to test on your own. I don't know anyone who can hit a hard leg workout and can perform the same the next day.
No way can a muscle with higher surface area/mass volume can recover just as easy as a smaller one. Yes only and if only their associated masses were equated. But that would defeat been scientific. (ps: all my presumptions about the study could be wrong, I'm just mumbling on lol)
Muscle size is certainly a factor but things like muscle fiber type, activation levels, and joint ROM all play a part as well. Also muscle sizes are sometimes misconstrued. Triceps are typically called a small muscle when they're actually one of the largest (bigger than the chest when its usually thought of the opposite). The conclusion was that quads/calves are some of the quickest recovering and chest/arms some of the slowest. And in response to the commenter's point about quad training the following day, quads may warrant a higher frequency but the surrounding musculature (and maybe tendons/joints) on say a squat/lunge dont recover as quickly. So as a basic example a leg extension may be favored in the final session if you train them 3x/wk. Heres some related info from Beardsley and the guy who runs the musclephd site: www.patreon.com/posts/recovery-rate-29591132 themusclephd.com/training-frequency-2/ Krieger has posted about it as well but its hidden behind a paywall. I wish this topic was debated more b/c everyone unanimously goes for one side while the evidence suggests something different!
@@Latissimus65 Thank you for the word ''musculature''. When I say muscle I meant the whole tendons joints and everything that gets worked with the associated muscle. I'm just a layman so yeah. Anyways, with my logic (no scientific expertise of the subject) I still dont think : ''everything recovers at roughly similar rates''.
I would agree the structures recover at the same rate, but the big ones have more stuff that requires more healing and couldn’t be avoided. Most gym bros really work hard at killing their chest and biceps, so I would challenge any research at this time that asserted that recovery was the same because the stimulus is not the same. The other killer is that for real world use (hunting a deer for caveman food) that you can reduce your reliance on small muscles if they are not optimally prepared to throw the spear. Anyone who has played sports knows that you can get away with a lot of injuries and still be competitive. A sore mid back doesn’t stop you from swinging a racquet. So, small muscles need to be available faster to provide that backup synergist strength because the quad or pec can’t push its job onto something else.
Large muscle groups can be trained once a week as long as your intensity and workload are sufficient. Smaller muscle groups can be trained twice a week. Here is an example: MON: Chest,Shoulders,Triceps TUE: Quads,Hamstrings,Calves WED:Back,Biceps THU:Off FRI:Off SAT:Calves,Biceps,Triceps SUN:Off
@@joetoth5465 Because like mike explains in the video, frequency plays a big part in muscle growth, and 1 time a week is the lowest possible frequency so your missing out on gains.
Frequency depends on intensity. If I’m doing forced reps, drop sets, negatives etc. on a large body part my body won’t be able to recover if I do that twice a week. An extreme example of this is Tom Platz who trained so hard he needed TWO weeks off between workouts and he was on gear...
@@joetoth5465 Again, not optimal frequency. You will get better gains with easier workouts done more often, not to say once a week wont work at all, its just the worst option. Im kinda curious tho, what level of advancement are you at currently?
Its the load under stretch that is doing it. Either lower the volume or choose a different exercise. Or both even, swap a couple of RDLs for.... I don't know, what ever works for you. Glute bridge 🤷♂️
You can't expect your glutes to recover as fast as your fore arms. I don't know what you do for recreational activity. But your fore arms are not supposed to be as big as your glutes goddamit. When the video is informative and comedy gold at the same time
Hey Dr Mike! Question for you, My shoulders are lacking especially my side and rear delts. I want to work them 2-3 times a week but I also feel as though it would hinder my back growth as well as chest due to the front delts. What do you recommend when trying to build balanced aesthetic shoulders I’m not sure whether I should give myself more time to heal as in rest days or just hammer them and lay off other muscles. Thanks man!
Not Dr. Mike obviously but I think you could take a training block or two where you keep chest and back at the minimum effective volume and take your mid and rear delts to the maximum effective volume. the idea being that you still do enough chest and back as to not lose muscle, but take the target muscle groups to the most volume you can recover from to catch them up.
I get it but might it lead to some physique asymetry? If I train triceps 2* and biceps 4* I think my arm would look weird after serveral years wouldn't it?
Not necessarily. As yout biceps are smaller, training them with more frequency might prevent them from being small by comparison to the triceps. If you trained everything 2x a week you might end up with undersized calves/forearms,/side delts/biceps
If you did 6 sets of triceps a week, and 8 sets of biceps a week it would be pretty much the same relative volume. If you got to MRV, it would be like 15 sets and 25 sets because of frequency. Just go from bottom to top volume however you see fit and don’t worry too much. Emil makes some good points as well.
Take into consideration that smaller muscles take smaller damage per session in comparison to larger ones...Thus the absolute growth per session is lower in smaller muscles.
Hey Dr. Mike, UA-cam here.
Hey Dr. UA-cam, Mike here
@@EmpoDaddy99 😱
@@natebackunbroken 😂
Hi dr miketube, you here.
im folks
This guy is more than generous to share all this content for free
Yes.
Mike looks like he's boss baby sat in the high chair.
What I got was,don’t go to the dentist with your friends. Cool! Thanks Dr.Mike
How tf has this got so few views. Your channel is without a doubt one of the best and highest quality fitness channels on UA-cam.
I was aware my legs are sore for longer but this is definitely new knowledge. I saw a comment on another video saying "I've learned more on your channel in 1 month than I have from anyone else in the last 4 years" and I can say the same applies to me, Thanks Dr. Mike
Dude same here
Needed this on this fine Wednesday. Thanks Dr. Mike! Congratulations on the release of your book, it’s a monumental tool that will forever be utilized. 🙏
Thank you for validating that arms and calves is a rest day
The fact that you put out so much content for free on YT is still mind boggling to me.
I've recently gotten away from PPL, UL and similar splits and favor adjusting volume and programming individually per muscle group. It makes my workouts a bit more sporadic but the progress has been great.
Thanks for content!
Hmm wouldn't the frequency of those splits still make a lot of sense if you adjust the per session volume based on mrv and recovery capabilities per muscle group?
Wouldnt you still have to make a split regardless
@@zebrom7994 I guess it would be a more personalized split like how some people will bench 3 or 4 times a week? Not sure tbh
I did PPL-rest-UL-rest since it fit nice in a predictable schedule to build my life around, but once the gyms open up I might adjust it a bit more to my recovery and goals. Homework-outs have been disastrous for my legs, my chronic pain makes repetition overload hurt like hell and at some point I just couldn't grab enough resistance. Meanwhile my biceps/triceps have grown quite significantly, shoulders and back look good but strength hasn't increased as much as I like, chest I got no clue and abs are a nightmare as always. Plan is to practically crawl home from destroying my legs as often as recovery allows and fill the rest with core / chest > back / shoulders > triceps > biceps.
A girl at my gym basically does hip trusts every session, her strength increase is hard to argue with, she only tracks that and then does 'fillers' by feel / to failure. Once set up that sounds pretty dreamy though I fear my quads are what needs the most work... My god.
It does still make it a 'split however, it's more individualized. I now have more specific 'add ons' to some of my larger muscle groups without feeling restricted to matching them to frequency of a typical set day. It also allows me to hit a lagging body part on top of a day I use for stronger body parts without the overlapping fatigue.
Everyone deals with this issue. You either end up undertraining upper body or overtraining lower body & having near-constant inflammation in your legs. It's exacerbated by the fact that a lot of us are in sports that also use the lower body. Tbh most people cant train legs hard more than 1-2x per week. I try to do 1 heavy day & 1 high volume "light" day with more accessory work
This has really become an issue that I've only recognized in myself recently. One would think one inflamed Achilles-tendon and hurt hip flexor would have been enough of a clue, but it actually took one of my friends pointing it out for me to realize.
Try training legs every other week,at least in my case it's the best way to be able to keep progressing
I treat my muscles like abilities during a raid boss. When the cool down is over, I spam.
But if you spam your abilities in the wrong order you'll find that you are causing a bottleneck in skill use and perhaps minute delays in aoe, direct and melee damage especially with the boss spawn buddies etc.
I miss playing mmorpgs! lol Whats good these days?
@@KenanTurkiye I stopped playing mmorpgs because they were too big of a distraction and just too much fun. The last one I played was guild wars 2 and I had a good time.
@@StandStrength heh! yeah you're right, fun but needs lotsa time, kills your life away. 👍
“That ability isn’t ready yet”
@@christopherfaulkner5821 I trained legs!
It wasn’t very effective...
I hurt myself in confusion!!!
Yep. Took me 18 months to get it kind of close. Shoulders and arms as priority on these meso cycles. Shoulders bis and tris 4x a week. Legs once a week. And a/b split chest and back 2 times each a week. Has been solid af
How do you split that?
pls share how you split it. i feel like i shouldn’t hit tris the day before chest day which really makes hitting them even 3x/week hard. i’d love to know your split.
@@zchmak my split doesn’t mean it’ll work for your split. Find what works for you. Have fun. It’s not all about science. And if your results suck it’s because your training, diet, or sleep suck. Not the split.
Feels like I can train biceps every fucking day
it is bored to train bicep if you dont have short arms or bicep peak or vascularity :(
Going back to watch these...great content and even better entertainment!
We need some obscure DnD analogies in involving mimics and treasure chests.
Magnificent video! Excellent work. Really loved it and learned plenty. Thanks! 🙏
Everytime I see one of your videos I think..."Man, imagine how good the paid content should be"
My best weekly MRV:
Calves: (20-25 sets total)
Bi's: (18-20 sets total)
Tri's: (12-15 sets total)
Quads: (15-20 sets total)
Hams: (8-10 sets total)
Chest: (12-15 sets total)
Shoulders: (18-20 sets total)
Back: (15-20 sets total)
Core/ABS: 12-15 sets total)
what a huge difference between quads and hams
@@thghtfl
Yeah, i have tried different workouts (frequency, volume, intensity) but my chest, tri's and hamstrings can't handle a lot of volume/frequency.
I have the same thing. My hamstrings just get so much more sore compared to my quads. Chest however never gets sore from lots of volume. I don’t know if I should focus on total weekly volume or more about stimulating the growth with the quality. For example hitting hamstrings directly only 7 times per week.
Anterior pelvic tilt FTW?? Ultimately, your numbers are your numbers. I’d rather have lower quad MRV because squatting to failure is way more painful than Romanian deads to failure 😂
@@thghtfl Hams usually take longer to heal compared to quads. Specially if you do RDLs.
It all comes back to specialized full body training
Yeah it shouldnt really come as a surprise that the most optimal programming is the one with the most micro specificity. With that said it's also the one that's the most difficult to get right, probably why so many fall back on PPL/UL splits.
Yes I need to work on quads After hearing this. ,. But I focusing on arms right now
Yes! RP with mike and the day is made
Thanks Mike. Perfect ⏱
Great video with much to consider when trying to program my own workouts. Also, definitely going to start saying mondo ROMs
Good stuff. Watch for the analogies first and information second.
As a result, train how u like but train hard. I’ve been doing bro split for 2 years and results are greater than any other split that I did, because I found that how my muscles respond. High volume moderate intensity and low frequency. I nearly tried everything. Even full body 5 days a week lol. But when I crush my body part and dedicate my day to one muscle ,this makes me feel amazing. I just train my lateral delt and calves two times a week. Shoulders arms , they still workin 2-3 times a week even if u do bro split. Chest back legs can rest especially legs
Oh a new video, I was on a binge and didn't notice
I only work out 3 days a week so for me this could look like:
Workout A: Chest, Lats/Back, Delts, Arms
Work out B: Lower but then throw in inverted rows, a curl variation, and face pulls.
"This is nerd bullshit you signed up for when you clicked subscribe on this channel" lmfao the way Mike talks just kills me hahaha
"Your glutes are fucking enormous" Thanks for the compliment doc.
I back at doin arm cables superset first as I walking gym. I try 3 days a week of this. Shoulder day /pull day /push day. And see how I go Thanks for good video
Do you dead lift on pull days and squat on push days? arms with shoulders?
Once I started doing concentric only exercises
3 weeks ago my body composition has improved more than my previous decade of training. I train the same muscles everyday.
Some emg tests show an increased muscle activation during some concentrics. o_O
Novel stimulus trumps everything for plateaus... eccentric only work will probably be much more friendly to the equipment (you may not use my gym LOL)
Honestly man, if you were training for an entire decade and less than a month is seeing significant results due to alternative training, it sounds like your original training was just extremely poorly constructed. Even the most mediocre of bro workouts that applied progressive overload and allowed for proper recovery would result in respectable gains in a decade.
For 99% of people, regular lifting works when programed correctly. If this exotic approach works for you, go for it, but I'd highly consider severely reevaluating your previous programming and find its deficiencies.
@@jarenblenart8685 You're right on those points. I guess another way of looking at it is that because so many things changed during that 10+ year period and my training motivation was higher than my recoverability (due to all types of stress) maybe getting rid of the eccentric is showing me that i have really bad recoverability that only this type of training is working for me.
@@BC4SelfImprovement given this is how weightlifting works, it could certainly work. This guy wants to GROW. Eccentric for life. 😂
Great Video!
Yes please
i follow this: legs/back/bicep, chest/tricep/shoulder both 2/3 times a week, all groups 2 exercises 3/4 sets. it heals pretty much all the same. maybe cuz back and biceps work 2gether and push works 2gether or i do go closer 2 failure on shoulders and arms
I personally try to use intensity to make up for the differences between muscles.
For example: I only do drop sets on the last set of an exercise for the larger muscles whereas for the smaller ones like biceps, every set is a drop set.
I would guess it’s the same as changing the volume but for me as an intermediate lifter, this lets me get away with less volume to save time while still providing a sufficient stimulus for all muscle groups
Plus the pump is amazing after 3 or 4 drop sets of curls.
Try 10-5-5 rep pause for biceps and calves. The burn is absurd !
Thank you.
Mondo DOMs. I will be saying that for the rest of my life now. Cowabunga Fellow Cactus Turtle!
What I’ve learned from this video : I need a new dentist.
Thanks Dr. Mike!
9:22!!!
Ive learned that I can work biceps, triceps and delts 3 times a week no problem. Legs once a week is enough. But calves twice a week.
0:24 when he said that you're trying to get more jacked I raised my hand.
Alright some feedback (not that I'm an expert but just my humble thoughts):
Knowledge, Presentation, Clarity, Persona all 100%
Analogies 200% :)
I have this issue,my legs take 2 weeks,upper big muscle groups I can't train more than once a week,I could train small groups 2-3 times a week,I eventually settled on a type of brosplit personalised for my specific deficits😅
I have similar issues. Can you detail what you decided to do?
@@bigbenbillion you just adapt,create a training plan specific to your body
I personally need to develop that way too advanced excel spreadsheet for what muscles to work out based on general recovery time, otherwise I end up hurting myself because I am way too overconfident. I need dat structure
Honest question, Muscles recover in 48-72 hrs, what about ligaments and tendons?
Excellent vid Dr Mike!!!!!👏👍👌🤙💪😎
11:40 😂😂
11:36
Commenting for al gores rhythm. Best informative fitness channel on the internet!
The solution is different Volume for different muscle Frequency can stay the same
I legit NEED 3 days between leg days and only 2 between any upper body muscle
The stubble suits you doc
Which muscles are you referring to when you say mid-back muscles? Rhomboids and lower traps?
So if I'm doing a pull push legs rest split I should add some extra bicep work on my leg days if they're recovered and a lagging body part?
Yes. I run a modified PPL over 6 days, with biceps, medial and rear delt work on both push and pull days so they get hit 4x weekly and legs back and chest get hit twice weekly, respectively.
@@danieladams1261 is it a program you made or someone that you follow?
@@timothyhunt2280 I built my own using Mikes principles, it just happens to have come out looking very much like a PPL with some additional accessories. Try not to be too rigid with your designs and look at your progress honestly. If you think you could be working something harder and adding more weight to the bar just isn’t doing it for you, increased frequencies might help!
your UA-cam channel is Awesome I like the way you get right to the point and the way you explain everything I have a question do it really matter if you don't have a set days to train each body part or just as long you hit each body part weekly and train them hard give recovery time ???
As long as your weekly frequency is good, a set schedule is minimally relevant. - Dr. Mike
I love you mikey
I must be weird I can wreck my chest and be fine but my biceps will be sore for days on small volume.
I understand the majority of what you're saying, but my question is, do you weigh assistance muscles' sets to the same extent as if it was the primary muscle for a set?
So for example, would you count 3 sets of bench as Chest:3 Triceps:3 AnteriorDelt:3 ? My initial thought would be not including bench in delt volume, but surely if you were to do 6 sets, your delts would take a hit. On the other hand, if you do include benching in your delt volume, surely they wont grow as much as an actual targeted exercise like an OHP. SO would you count bench or not?
This is the main thing that confuses me, same with glutes, so many leg exercises will hit glutes, whether is a quad or hamstring focused exercise, so if you were to count all the movements that have glutes included (but not the main focus) your glutes volume would be so much higher than the rest of your bigger muscle groups
Yeah the overall volume would be higher but the intensity placed on the glutes is relatively low so it's not being stressed enough to grow as much
Your ability to isolate via equipment and mind muscle connection is going to drastically affect your ability to execute this paradigm, and is likely why there is such variable numbers. Your dumbbell incline bench might drill your anterior delts real bad because you didn’t go deep, but they catch up and then your chest takes the damage next week as you resolve to go deeper next time. It’s a moving target because you changed the exercise.
But this is OK. You are seeking to progressively overload all movements and weak points reveal themselves at different times in your lifting career. I’m using a Donnie Thompson Bow tie for a couple months because my shoulders are always compromised but I failed to overcome the back weakness in my last two mesocycles. That’s my weak point but I’m not stopping my bench. So yeah, I will isolate using equipment to engage more delts. And this will ruin my MRV numbers, because I was not using enough Ant Delt to begin with.
Don’t worry about it. Use one truly isolating exercise for the body part, and allow the compound movements to spread over the joints as intended. You will figure out what needs to happen over the next 12 months. Training is not a basic formula and you can’t learn your body in a short timeframe.
@@Xplora213 "Your ability to isolate via equipment and mind muscle connection is going to drastically affect your ability to execute this paradigm, and is likely why there is such variable numbers." - wow, coming out strong!
I would only count working sets towards volume. So sets close to failure were it is obvious which muscle gave up. If your triceps fail you on bench then I would count that as tricep volume. If they don't, then I wouldn't.
(And, if you like to complicate things like me, and you are wondering how you work out MRV and such.... Well, same as usual, but you may need to reassess where you are at when you design a new meso or change program/exercise order.)
OOooorrr just go with this. If you feel weak in multiple workouts in a row then its too much. If you feel strong then GET AFTER IT
@@AngryOscillator 😂 the borderline trolling is awesome.
My point is really that our guy is getting really twisted up over minor details. I have some rounding in my right shoulder that I’m aggressively addressing now. My rear deltoid and the rhomboid and blah blah blah doesn’t fire properly so it’s really hard to monitor the maximum recoverable volume for the surrounding muscles. Just yesterday, getting a massage after heavy deadlifts.... my right upper back is fine but the Left side is tight and the right mid back is like steel cables!! I am transferring the effort from my shoulder to the rest of my back and it’s killing my gains.
Our friend is worried about his anterior delts MRV when he might not even be working them very hard because of his personal circumstances. Just like I can’t get my shoulder to behave.
My guy has a tan rn. Where was the vacation? Lol
I can torch my delt and triceps ..triceps 2 ir trice week
Common sense makes sense. EXCEPT judging if you recovered by DOMS is useless because if you're getting DOMS in certain muscles you simply are not training often enough. Once your frequency goes up DOMS disappear. Then what? How do you know if your muscles healed if they are not sore at all?
so i have to clean my teeth while doing biceps work, understood
I've completely hit plateaus on every freaking muscle group Im So frustrated, my arms are not really sore but they feel weak as fuck and my chest is the same way. I don't know what to do, appetite has decreased sleep is only now getting better have I over trained or???
I was thinking of doing push and biceps, legs, then pull and triceps twice a week but with a rest day after 3 days. Was hoping this would help add abit more frequency to training the arm muscles and maybe side delts on pull day too. Thoughts?
Exact same split :)
Sounds like a good split. you could even try adding some bicep work to the end of the other days as well. it doesn’t have to be 8 sets each time you hit biceps, it’s about hitting them when they’re recovered. I saw great results when i did some training blocks hitting biceps 4x/week but just 3 sets per workout, maybe give that a try?
@@jimothy_CLE yeh sounds good. What abt side delts how many times did u do them
@@rossjeffrey9281 i’ve never done a training block focusing on them but i think if you’re just doing lateral raises, you could do them 4 times a week as long as you’re feeling recovered. they’re a small muscle group and recover quickly.
What kind of masochist is looking to train quads 4 times a week?
you would try any training method if you really desire bigger quads
The desperate and the frustrated
I just put more volume on my posterior to counteract my anterior dominant daily living.
Hey doc what you think about outgrowing of upper body to legs as I run almost everyday (please I can't stop lifting and running) but I never could do more than 3 to 4 squat sets for quads and 3 rdls for hams. Will my upper body optimally grow If lower body body doesn't grow or say maintain its size n strength ???
It's fine, your upper body might even grow faster than if you tained legs harder due to extra available recovery capacity. However, it would probably be recommended to keep doing at least some heavy work for legs, as I believe your body grows better when it's stimulated in whole.
Do those six sets twice a week and don’t worry about your legs any more than that. Running steals recoverable volume from your lower body so progress will be a little slower but its not life-ending.
Running beyond 1 mile will encourage slow twitch fibres quite a lot and will kill your ability to display your genetic maximal strength. That’s absolutely fine, but remember you are training legs every day if you run every day. A body builder walks or rides slowly to reduce that catabolic effect from strenuous cardio.
Maximising your training is only relevant if you want to maximise the results, and that requires some level of specialisation. If you aren’t there, don’t worry too much. Just try to progressively overload as best you can and avoid injury as best you can. De loading the running will help more than you think if your volume is truly big.
What panatiotis said, the upper body will probably grow better if you neglect the legs. Less systemic fatigue.
You could if you really wanted to JUST train your biceps and have MASSIVE biceps and tiny everything else... if thats what you are into haha
How do you hit a muscle 4x per week? If you hit the muscle every other day you would be scheduled to workout that muscle 4x week 1 and 3 and 3x week 2 and 4.
Easy, if you want to hit biceps 4x per week over 2 weeks, you go:
Sun - Biceps
Mon
Tue - Biceps
Wed
Thu - Biceps
Fri
Sat - Biceps
Sun
Mon - Biceps
Tue
Wed - Biceps
Thu
Fri - Biceps
Sat
Sun - Biceps
Unbelievable we have this for free, thank you very much Dr. For share your knowledge
What if you train twice per day, one session in the AM for heavy work applied towards bigger muscles, and one session in the PM for isolation work for smaller muscle groups like biceps and calves? Is that optimal?
If you have the time I think that is ideal.
Me personally on Pushdays, after training Chest and Shoulders, I dont have energy to give 100% effort in Tris. But i dont have the time
Same or different muscles groups?
There have been studies that show training cardio or volume work after heavy lifting actually disrupts the growth/recovery stage. But thats doing squats AM and then a run PM for example. Doing squats AM and then back and biceps in the evening should be fine.
(Don't know how old that study was or if its still relevant)
@@AngryOscillator Do you know the study's title so I can look it up? My idea was to train just arms/neck in the PM sessions since these are lagging body parts of mine, every day, for a mesocicle
@@d3f3kt57 I don't, no. I think I heard Nippard talking about it in a video a couple of years ago 🤷♂️ sorry
I don't see why neck would be an issue though, so long as you obviously don't go mental on it haha
Arms gets a bit more tricky because of the crossover with other, heavy compound moves...but then I suppose if you are benching for chest am and then doing arms pm it should be fine.
From what I remember it's only an issue if it's the exact same muscles in use, the activity in the muscle disturbs the recovery response from the earlier work. Doing lat pull downs and bent rows in the am followed by biceps in the pm should be OK too, you'd just go into the session a bit pre-exhausted. Wouldn't recommend for strength training but for size it shouldn't be too much of an issue... just don't go doing curls am then rows pm 😆
Also, have you seen the series Mike has put up recently showing how they train. They have am and pm sessions, could be worth checking if you haven't already (the leg sessions are choice as ever too!)
Gaining muscle is very hard for me
Would LATS generally be in the "big muscles" group (with chest, triceps, hams, quads, glutes) or smaller group (mid-back, delts, biceps)?
in my case, my lats recover faster, so i'd put them in small group. My midback and upper back takes a little more time. my back routine is 70% row, and 20% pull up. %10 posterior delt
With the time limits I face and my age (66), my default frequency is once per week, except for body parts I can't grow at all without higher frequency (calves twice on the days I do cardio).
Being in a similar situation (61 yrs), I've found a compromise that has worked well for me. I divide my body into 4 workouts; but workout 5 days a week (M-F), and run each workout in sequence carrying over from week to week (aka M - 1, Tu - 2, Wed - 3, Th - 4, Fri - 1, M - 2, Tu - 3, Wed - 4, Th - 1, Fri - 2, ...). The result is that each week I start out on Monday (while fresh & strong) with a different workout...each workout gets to benefit from eventually being on a Monday after the weekend recovery and each week one of the workouts gets done twice (providing a little extra frequency without overdoing it). Because I have always worked out very hard, this style routine worked well for me in my younger years too...allowing me to carry a bit more muscle than the average non-competitor gym rat. Just a thought. Cheers!
If we do full body 2-3x a week, is adding an extra workout for the small muscles a good idea?
Maybe larger muscles like your quads require higher protein requirement to recover at the same rate. It makes sense to think that legs would require more nutrition to recover than arms or most upper body muscles
Legs don’t get to rest. Walking is much more intense than holding a coffee or typing 😂 so they are always struggling.
I kill my quads on legday, you make me afraid to...
What do you think of upper lower prog in which just 2 exercises fo each muscle and one for biceps with total 21 sets and 70 reps with RPE around 8 as an example..is it enough specially some muscles not trained at all
Beardsley/Krieger have shown evidence that states its a myth that 'smaller' muscles recover faster and everything recovers at roughly similar rates (quads one of the fastest recovering and chest one of the slowest recovering). Your take on this?
Lol I'm interested to check out this study. Curious how they prescribed volume/load for the various muscle groups Pretty easy to test on your own. I don't know anyone who can hit a hard leg workout and can perform the same the next day.
No way can a muscle with higher surface area/mass volume can recover just as easy as a smaller one.
Yes only and if only their associated masses were equated.
But that would defeat been scientific.
(ps: all my presumptions about the study could be wrong, I'm just mumbling on lol)
Muscle size is certainly a factor but things like muscle fiber type, activation levels, and joint ROM all play a part as well. Also muscle sizes are sometimes misconstrued. Triceps are typically called a small muscle when they're actually one of the largest (bigger than the chest when its usually thought of the opposite). The conclusion was that quads/calves are some of the quickest recovering and chest/arms some of the slowest. And in response to the commenter's point about quad training the following day, quads may warrant a higher frequency but the surrounding musculature (and maybe tendons/joints) on say a squat/lunge dont recover as quickly. So as a basic example a leg extension may be favored in the final session if you train them 3x/wk.
Heres some related info from Beardsley and the guy who runs the musclephd site:
www.patreon.com/posts/recovery-rate-29591132
themusclephd.com/training-frequency-2/
Krieger has posted about it as well but its hidden behind a paywall. I wish this topic was debated more b/c everyone unanimously goes for one side while the evidence suggests something different!
@@Latissimus65 Thank you for the word ''musculature''. When I say muscle I meant the whole tendons joints and everything that gets worked with the associated muscle. I'm just a layman so yeah.
Anyways, with my logic (no scientific expertise of the subject) I still dont think :
''everything recovers at roughly similar rates''.
I would agree the structures recover at the same rate, but the big ones have more stuff that requires more healing and couldn’t be avoided. Most gym bros really work hard at killing their chest and biceps, so I would challenge any research at this time that asserted that recovery was the same because the stimulus is not the same.
The other killer is that for real world use (hunting a deer for caveman food) that you can reduce your reliance on small muscles if they are not optimally prepared to throw the spear. Anyone who has played sports knows that you can get away with a lot of injuries and still be competitive. A sore mid back doesn’t stop you from swinging a racquet. So, small muscles need to be available faster to provide that backup synergist strength because the quad or pec can’t push its job onto something else.
Hey folk
11:40 omfg! XD HAHAHAHAAA
Large muscle groups can be trained once a week as long as your intensity and workload are sufficient. Smaller muscle groups can be trained twice a week. Here is an example:
MON: Chest,Shoulders,Triceps
TUE: Quads,Hamstrings,Calves
WED:Back,Biceps
THU:Off
FRI:Off
SAT:Calves,Biceps,Triceps
SUN:Off
@Keep Looking Up maybe you can tell me what is wrong with my split if I need to change something?
@@joetoth5465 Because like mike explains in the video, frequency plays a big part in muscle growth, and 1 time a week is the lowest possible frequency so your missing out on gains.
Frequency depends on intensity. If I’m doing forced reps, drop sets, negatives etc. on a large body part my body won’t be able to recover if I do that twice a week. An extreme example of this is Tom Platz who trained so hard he needed TWO weeks off between workouts and he was on gear...
@@joetoth5465 Again, not optimal frequency. You will get better gains with easier workouts done more often, not to say once a week wont work at all, its just the worst option. Im kinda curious tho, what level of advancement are you at currently?
I always get sore for 5 days in my hamstrings after RDL's what can i do?
Its the load under stretch that is doing it. Either lower the volume or choose a different exercise. Or both even, swap a couple of RDLs for.... I don't know, what ever works for you. Glute bridge 🤷♂️
My forearms are as big as my glutes. The secret is spinach.
10:38
You can't expect your glutes to recover as fast as your fore arms.
I don't know what you do for recreational activity.
But your fore arms are not supposed to be as big as your glutes goddamit.
When the video is informative and comedy gold at the same time
True bros go to the dentist together
6:03
i can train my glutes 4-5 times a week but quads only 2 =( so annoying
12:08
11:10
2x lower, 3x upper, forearms/side delts every workout, ez
This was literally a burning question I've been Googling for the last few days. What does that mean? Dr Mike has my Chrome log in.
It may be that he has the answers.
I would like to know more about huge glutes.
Check out instagram, I hear that is a good place to find them
the hygienist cleans the teeth, not the assistant
Hey Dr Mike! Question for you,
My shoulders are lacking especially my side and rear delts. I want to work them 2-3 times a week but I also feel as though it would hinder my back growth as well as chest due to the front delts. What do you recommend when trying to build balanced aesthetic shoulders I’m not sure whether I should give myself more time to heal as in rest days or just hammer them and lay off other muscles. Thanks man!
Not Dr. Mike obviously but I think you could take a training block or two where you keep chest and back at the minimum effective volume and take your mid and rear delts to the maximum effective volume. the idea being that you still do enough chest and back as to not lose muscle, but take the target muscle groups to the most volume you can recover from to catch them up.
@@jimothy_CLE that’s solid advice thanks man
I may try this I'm experiencing something I've never felt before or been through
Aint got money for dentist
So five day/week full body, only hit the muscle when it feels recovered? Didn't Jeff Nippard give this a go a while back??
Yes and Eric Helms and Eric Trexler. This is a v “natty” approach. I like it as well.
Root canals aint that bad.
Free alpha guys...
I get it but might it lead to some physique asymetry? If I train triceps 2* and biceps 4* I think my arm would look weird after serveral years wouldn't it?
Not necessarily. As yout biceps are smaller, training them with more frequency might prevent them from being small by comparison to the triceps. If you trained everything 2x a week you might end up with undersized calves/forearms,/side delts/biceps
If you did 6 sets of triceps a week, and 8 sets of biceps a week it would be pretty much the same relative volume. If you got to MRV, it would be like 15 sets and 25 sets because of frequency.
Just go from bottom to top volume however you see fit and don’t worry too much. Emil makes some good points as well.
Take into consideration that smaller muscles take smaller damage per session in comparison to larger ones...Thus the absolute growth per session is lower in smaller muscles.
Nice sArms
Jeff Nippard has sensed a disturbance in the force