Thank you, I've had people argue with me that the bullet was not loaded while still in the paper, but I've always known different. My Great Great Grandfather, who was with the 46th Illinois Company A, carried an Enfield during the Civil War. Not sure what model though.
Mostly they are just ill informed... at any rate, your relative would most likely not have used a British Cartridge... using the American version instead. The British cartridge and the locally made version were used quite "extensively" by the South.
Great video! Do you have any experience or opinion on the Pedersoli reproduction P53 Enfield rifles? I would like to get one sometimes. Thanks so much!!
While studying the origins of the Sepoy Rebellion, I sought to research how the cartridge loading for the Enfield Rifles, arguably the cause of the rebellion, functioned. Thank you for the clear visual demonstration. I now understand how pig or cow derivative greases became an issue. I am glad to have researched this because it introduced me to this amazing channel and its contents. Subscribed!
I’m here for the same reason. The Sepoys were assured at the time 1857 that the cartridges were not greased with anything that would pollute their caste. Apparently this was not strictly true. By accident, oversight or covert design animal fats did get used and no guarantees could be given otherwise!
In India, in 1857 east India Company forced sepoys to use these guns. There was no problem. But the greased cartridges were made of cow and pig fat. They were ordered to open the greased cartridges from their mouths which was a sin in the Hindu and Islam religions respectfully. This led to a massive rebellion against the company. Thanks for showing this gun.
The musketry manual of 1854 (the first for the Enfield) instructed the use of the teeth to open the cartridge. The next manual (FE&E of 1859 which included the Platoon Exercise) stated to tear it with your fingers while gripping the barrel. What references were you referring to?
@@nicksmith2680 I was wondering the same thing. Biting beef fat would have offended Hindu sepoys, lard would have offended Muslim ones, or so they tell us in the history books. Both would have offended Jain recruits (not that there would have been many, if at all). Ghee (clarified butter) wouldn't have offended anyone, but would probably have been too expensive, and would have melted and gone rancid in any case. Crisco hadn't been invented yet, so coming up with a drill that didn't involve biting might have been a good solution.
@@nicksmith2680whatever be the situation, this provided a unity which wasn’t seen anytime later ( divide is so strong later, it’s still alive ) . Unfortunately the unity wasn’t planned, so they couldn’t use it well … sad . If they used, Gandii wouldn’t have been part of that section , and may be horrors of Partition and millions of civilian’s death would’ve been avoided . We never know ,,,
The cartridge shoots very well. Between you and Brett Gibbons I was pretty well converted, then at the range, 70 rounds, the last .550 going in as easily as the first, and allowing for eyesight and Parkinsons, shooting as well. Yep, the English cartridge wins.
@@britishmuzzleloaders indeed but still its pretty cool that fake news had a part to play :) military history ftw btw what u think of jezail vs the British guns
+Valmir von Vesver Parker Hale (as in the British company) doesn't exist anymore... If you want an original PH, then you'll have to troll the inter web and find one at auction.... They are the only reproductions with progressively rifled barrels as per the original P53s. Cheers.
No. Its just a waxed cotton jacket. It has a cape that attaches under the collar and under the arms. I like it for shooting as it is waterproof and puts up with all the abuse, dirt and black powder crap that seems to get all over your clothes when shooting. The equipment is, for the most part, made up of various reproductions of the appropriate kit. I made the haversack and the crossbelt.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Look up a civil war cartridge box, notice how big they are and when you open them, there is another smaller storage space behind the flap, then search up a carbine cartridge box, they are smaller, don't have a strap, and don't have that extra storage space behind the flap
Great video! I myself am a big fan of the pattern 1853. I would love for you to make a video on how you clean an maintain your Enfields. Keep up the good work!
I too am familiar with the accounts that you state. All I meant was that the first War Office document to prescribe tearing with the fingers was in 1859 ,local practice and General Orders from India notwithstanding. So many of the accounts are confusing and contradictory. There is an account of a trial in which it is clear that the sepoy in question are referring to the paper as being greasy, vice the grease applied to it.... So much to disscuss and only 500 characters to do it in.
In Argentina, the grenadiers used similar muskets with pins and those paper catridges bulets and I have always wondered how they loaded them, thanks to this video I now understand how they did it. Thanks.
It only said that the cartridges were supposed to be made with bees wax and a rumor of animal fat being used caused the Hindu soldiers to not load their weapons in defiance of British orders.
Such an unforgettable rifle, so many wars this served in, I can't name all of them but the first few that come to mind are the Crimean war, Sepoy mutiny and American Civil war
I watch guys load these, and American style minie. Seems the English is a little faster. But watching people do it I can’t tell you why. Don’t know how much loading I’ve watched but it’s still fun
In 1857, india. There were enfield rifles introduced by the british. There was a rumor going on that the paper was greased with the fat of pigs and cows. That's why Indian british soldiers did not use these rifles. It kinda looks similar to thw one ypu have.
I’ve literally never seen the part where you snap the cartridge off, but then again most of the musketry that I’ve seen is in movies where they use blanks.
Just like every other cartridge up to that point... The hand method was suggested for use during the incipient stages of the Mutiny, as perhaps an alternative that would be seen to be viable compromise...
@@britishmuzzleloaders surely, the kind of suppression from EIC on the people, the kind of looted our country, still we stand firmly in the international level. 🙏🏻
They are essentially the same technology... small differences in the stock shape are probably the biggest difference.... oh and the sights.... more precise sights on the Enfield.
What name/style is the expense pouch known as? I'm trying to find a replica online but dont know the proper name to search by. I'm trying to collect the accoutrement for my 3 band p53 Nepal copy.
And sorry to be a pain but I have to ask when are going to get around to the Ross rifle I know it got a bad rep in ww1 but I've also read it was favoured by snipers so it can't have been that bad and you sir do not strike me as one that would shirk from a controversy
Well, i've gotta question. I saw people putting in the powder and then insert the minie ball and throw away the rest of the cartridge. Here, the good men is putting the whole cartridge into the barrel. In another video i saw someone making cartridges for the enfield and the cartridge was relatively thick, because it consists of more then one thicknes. If i insert the minie ball into the barrel WITH the cartridge the minie ball has to be a smaller caliber, so that the paper fits in too. But when i will fire the gun, the minie ball will flutter through the barrel, because there is a space because of the inserted paper. The "rifle" effect will not take place. If i take the standard caliber the catridge won't fit in the barrel too. I need help. What shall i do?
+Valmir von Vesver Hi there. It would seem that you have an understanding of the relationship between the bullet, paper and the bore size. This is a good thing.. If you will permit me to educate you as to the function of an "expanding ball" I will.... First it is important to understand how a bullet of this type works... The bullet is indeed smaller than the bore, to allow for loading. When the bullet is fired, the gases from the powder burning expand so fast that the skirt of the bullet expands outward before the bullet actually starts moving down the barrel. This does two things: Firstly, it seals the barrel and prevents any gas "cutting" by the bullet... all the gas is behind the bullet making the firing as efficient as possible. Second, the expanding of the skirt pushes the lead into the grooves of the rifling, thereby causing the bullet to spin down the barrel and is stabilized in flight. Now, this effect happens with all kinds of expanding ball.. either the American Burton-style bullet (with the grease grooves) or the British Pritchett-style bullet (with smooth sides). The bullet will grip the rifling... this is the whole premise of the design.. With the American Burton-style bullet (which you seem to be familiar with) the bullet, for best shooting, needs to be one or two thou smaller than the barrel. This commonly makes for a bullet that is about .575-.579) With the Pritchett, the bullet needs to be smaller than the bore by the thickness of the two wraps of paper that surround it in the cartridge (actually this measurement is "4 paper thicknesses"). This makes for a bullet that is about .564 or so, depending on the paper thickness. These bullets are part of two completely different systems and are sized appropriately. American bullet are designed to loaded "naked" and are themselves close to bore size, as you indicated. The British bullet is designed to be shot as part of a paper patch system... The powder cylinder is snapped off the cartridge leaving the bottom part of the paper (which is where the lube is applied) around the bullet in the barrel. So yes, if you try and make British style cartridges with an American style bullet, you won't be able to fit it into the barrel. Pritchett bullet moulds are relatively rare though NOE has one in their line now. Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders , touché. This was a very informative explanation and thank you for this fast one. But it leads to more questions. Why are american style bullets put in, as you said, "naked"? what makes the differenze. You already pointed out that the british style bullet is smaller to expand the skirt. in contrast to this, the naked bullet fits in the barrel without leaving any space for paper. Will the skirt expand? is there any sense? What caliber bullet do u use? if its calibre .577 do i have to buy a smaller one to get the english "effect".? thanks
Valmir von Vesver Part of any black power shooting is the appropriate application of lubrication. Black powder fouling is very hard and without something to keep it soft, you wouldn't be able to load something with fine tolerances like a "minie" bullet. The Americans came up with a system whereby the lube was held in grooves on the bullet. The British used the paper that was around their bullet to "hold" the lube.. (the cartridge was dipped in molten lube as part of the manufacturing process).. I think that you are misunderstanding the concept of having the bullet smaller.. The bullet isn't "smaller to expand the skirt". The Pritchett is smaller than the Burton because it has to accomodate the paper thickness in the bore... ALL expanding balls use the principle of an expanding skirt. The skirt will expand whether there is paper around it (in the case of the Pritchett) or not (in the case of the Burton) My bullets (Pritchetts) are .564 + (4 x .003" for the paper) + .001 (for the windage) = .577, the bore size. For an American style buyllet in the same bore, you want a bullet that is .576 + .001 (windage) = .577
This is quite helpful. I do have another question, personally, and i'm sorry this is responding to a year old comment but i was researching this for a story of mine. Does the paper around the cartridge affect the accuracy at all? How does the bullet grip the rifling if the paper is wrapped around it, does the ball get shot out of the paper within the barrel?
i always saw my husband watching history and firearms channels on UA-cam and i am quite interested now in looking at these myself. i love learning more and joining my husband in his hobbies
Hello. I too load my P-H (1st gen) P1853 with paper cartridges. However, I have to use US cartridge and methods due to not being able to find a source for Pritchett .565 dia bullets or a sizing die to trim .575 Minies. May I ask, what do you use and where did you get them? If I may, cost? Thanks!
HI there. The bullet is from a mould made by "Brooks Moulds" in Montana, USA. It is .564 and is adjustable for length from about .96 to 1.1 inches. I designed it and sent the drawing to them.. A fine mould to say the least. Their moulds are not cheap though (google them to find the latest pricing) and are what one might call "top of the line". You can get sizing dies that will size a Burton down (S&S Firearms and Lodgewood) but by the time you squeeze it down by .01 you are going to have a lot of deformity. I should think that, although they will function, you will not get any real accuracy out of them. I tried that when I was starting out down "the road to the Pritchett" and this was my experience. If you really want to experience the correct ammo for your Enfield, you're going to want to save up and get a proper mould. I did and it's the best "shooting money" I ever spent (apart from my P53 and P58, of course).
in amused tone of voice 'Damned Limey, trying sell us their poor excuse of a musket where I can't use my Springfield bullet mold and can't turn it into a trapdoor rifle.'😉
Hello i wanted to know where you bought the white leather primer pouch i am looking for one in white to complete an austrian infantry pouch from the 1864-1866 campaigns thanks Richard
Richard Krotec Hi there. I got it from Bill at Heritage Leathers. Sadly they are out of business. Google "British enfield cap pouch" and you are sure to get something... Cheers.
The incident laid out here, is done so now, because the statute of limitations and the Retired Major, has passed on. Now over the summer, I was stopping in on a private- commercial range. The grandson of the owner and I got along great. so us kids could shoot without too much attention. So one Friday night, I get there and "granddad" was away with his sweetheart. "Doug" wanted to shoot the PH53 Replica and had enough bullets and caps to do our best. So we went about getting the loading parts together - black-powder too. So we fire the first shot and nothing really was bad. Some smoke. So Doug continues shooting and once the third was popped - Doug wants me to shoot. Nive firearm, but the smoke is getting a little thick. Next - his sister shows up and comments about smoke in the house. We had all the windows open for about an hour before they got home. Sis did not tell, and we just kept shooting 22 for the night. PS All this was on a 22 INDOOR Range - connected to a house. Cheers - I still wonder if he knew.
Hi there. The thing about both versions of the American cartridge is that they don't require the same tolerances as the British. The American styles are simply "containers" for the powder and ball. The British style is integral to shooting and as such needs to be of such dimension as to facilitate a tight roll around the bullet. This means that the mandrel and the thickness of the materials used for the powder cylinder need to be exact so that the finished product is VERY close to the dimension of the bullet (.568 or .55 depending on the pattern of bullet). This ensures that the outer wrapper is tight and parallel to the sides of the bullet and that loading will not cause the paper to displace or wrinkle. That said, the British cartridge is much faster and simpler to use. As for the bullets, both are undersize to a degree. The American Burton is around .575 or so as it is loaded "naked" and the British Pritchett is smaller at around .568, though later decreased to .55, due to the two wraps of paper around the bullet when loading.
How much of an issue is it handling the percussion caps? I imagine it would be quite difficult placing percussion caps on the nipple, especially in battle conditions or bad weather.
They are fiddly, but the pouch on the chest makes them easy to get at.... If you are interested have a look at the other Enfield videos and you'll see the level of difficulty (or lack of it) there is in capping.
but my question is, first of all, brilliant video but how on earth would a soldier in the 1850's be able to load the musket quickly in the midst of a war? It seems quite tedious to shoot multiple bullets as they do take a significant amount of time to load per shot
This is a really late question and I am sorry for this lateness but I must ask, why does the percussion cap go last in the loading drills and sequences?
Hi there. The bullet is .563/4 x 1.06 and the paper is .003 (wrapped twice for four (4) thicknesses). If you are interested, there are other videos on the channel that explain in detail the specs and method of construction used to make the cartridges….. If you are so inclined. Cheers.
Hi great videos. Do you have any concerning the enfield .577 muskatoon? I see you have many videos on the 2 band rife and 3 band rifle musket but none on the carbine sizes.
Hello Rob, I was just curious if you had any issues with powder sticking to the inside of the inner plastic powder cylinder? I purchased and use the same exact plastic tubing, but have found that the 3f goex powder I use likes to stick to the sides of this varient of powder cylinder.
Thank you, I've had people argue with me that the bullet was not loaded while still in the paper, but I've always known different. My Great Great Grandfather, who was with the 46th Illinois Company A, carried an Enfield during the Civil War. Not sure what model though.
Mostly they are just ill informed... at any rate, your relative would most likely not have used a British Cartridge... using the American version instead. The British cartridge and the locally made version were used quite "extensively" by the South.
The p53 enfield more likely was used as it was easier to make in a factory so more could be made at lower price
God damb I can’t get over how much I love your videos, keep up the great content
Very kind!
Nice demo of the British style cartridge. I have read about how they were used but don't remember seeing it demonstrated.
Great video! Do you have any experience or opinion on the Pedersoli reproduction P53 Enfield rifles? I would like to get one sometimes. Thanks so much!!
Hi there. I don't have one, but I have heard that they are well done. Decent quality and decent shooters. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Cheers.
Not meaning to pry, in what context does it mention the Enfield?
Damm that reload takes ages
Sure.
I like u.s loading technique better.
Sure.
It takes a lot of time before we shot an enemy we would Probably be killed by an enemy.
An enemy who is using a similar weapon to you.....
God damn man..... your costume and dress make the gun look exactly where it needs to be..... in your hands!!!!
Creative and brilliant dude im subbing!
Thank you!
True
That stache is glorious.
Haha.. Cheers!
Over 2 years since i last commented. By the way, the dislikes must be from people too short to place the rammer down the barrel.
Glad to have you back! Thanks!
Inqlaab zindabad!!
Sure.
Thanks! Loading with this cartridge is really quite effortless.. Decent accuracy from my bullet too.
While studying the origins of the Sepoy Rebellion, I sought to research how the cartridge loading for the Enfield Rifles, arguably the cause of the rebellion, functioned. Thank you for the clear visual demonstration. I now understand how pig or cow derivative greases became an issue. I am glad to have researched this because it introduced me to this amazing channel and its contents. Subscribed!
Thank you for your subby! Glad to have you along.
That is exactly why I am here too.
@@gourav4672 Interesting forks in history.
Haha it's crazy to find someone was in my exact position three years ago
I’m here for the same reason. The Sepoys were assured at the time 1857 that the cartridges were not greased with anything that would pollute their caste. Apparently this was not strictly true. By accident, oversight or covert design animal fats did get used and no guarantees could be given otherwise!
In India, in 1857 east India Company forced sepoys to use these guns. There was no problem. But the greased cartridges were made of cow and pig fat. They were ordered to open the greased cartridges from their mouths which was a sin in the Hindu and Islam religions respectfully. This led to a massive rebellion against the company. Thanks for showing this gun.
A huge story unto itself... the cartridges were just a tiny piece of the very complicated puzzle that became the Mutiny.
@@britishmuzzleloaders it wasn't just a mutiny. It was a first war of independence. Thanks 🙏
This rifle and its cartridges caused first Indian independent rebellion in 1857 😊, British called it "" mutinee of Indian soldiers ""
It may have been the "spark" but the causes were far deeper than any cartridge....
@@britishmuzzleloaders yeah I meant to say that infact
The musketry manual of 1854 (the first for the Enfield) instructed the use of the teeth to open the cartridge. The next manual (FE&E of 1859 which included the Platoon Exercise) stated to tear it with your fingers while gripping the barrel. What references were you referring to?
Do you think this had anything to do with the whole beef fat wrapped cartridge scandal surrounding the Indian mutiny of 1857?
@@nicksmith2680 I was wondering the same thing. Biting beef fat would have offended Hindu sepoys, lard would have offended Muslim ones, or so they tell us in the history books. Both would have offended Jain recruits (not that there would have been many, if at all). Ghee (clarified butter) wouldn't have offended anyone, but would probably have been too expensive, and would have melted and gone rancid in any case. Crisco hadn't been invented yet, so coming up with a drill that didn't involve biting might have been a good solution.
@@nicksmith2680whatever be the situation, this provided a unity which wasn’t seen anytime later ( divide is so strong later, it’s still alive ) . Unfortunately the unity wasn’t planned, so they couldn’t use it well … sad . If they used, Gandii wouldn’t have been part of that section , and may be horrors of Partition and millions of civilian’s death would’ve been avoided .
We never know ,,,
Thanks! Cleaning and Maintenance...... Sounds like a good idea. I'll start working on it.
at 0:34 what happens if you don't take the powder cylinder off?
It won't load with it....
It's good to see that back in the 1850's, hearing protection was mandatory. 😂😂😂
What was that?
The cartridge shoots very well. Between you and Brett Gibbons I was pretty well converted, then at the range, 70 rounds, the last .550 going in as easily as the first, and allowing for eyesight and Parkinsons, shooting as well. Yep, the English cartridge wins.
Yes indeed! Brett has done yeoman’s work in bringing the Pritchett to the masses!
Revolt 1857
Is this the same rifle whose greased cartridge caused the I
1857 Indian independence war
It is the same cartridge that had a role to play, but did not "cause" the Mutiny...
britishmuzzleloaders it was the reason to instigate the sepoys of the 34th Bengal native infantry and beginning of the revolt
There were many causes of the Mutiny.... underlying and pervasive.... the cartridge was just the spark....
I know this video is old but I am honored to own an enfield 1853 58 caliber. I have used I for hunting and so far it has never failed me.
Nice!
really great presentation, 1857 vibes :) the cartridge that lead to the war and yes i suspect that the french spread the rumour
There was much more that “led” to war, for sure. The cartridge was a “spark” at best.
@@britishmuzzleloaders indeed but still its pretty cool that fake news had a part to play :) military history ftw
btw what u think of jezail vs the British guns
Nice mustache. When you push the bullet into the barrel with the ram rod, does the rifling get damaged?
Thank you. No it does not.
Indian rebellion intensifies
Sure.
I cannot find the actual Parker Hale Page where i can buy the Enfield. There are only Lee Enfields
+Valmir von Vesver Parker Hale (as in the British company) doesn't exist anymore... If you want an original PH, then you'll have to troll the inter web and find one at auction.... They are the only reproductions with progressively rifled barrels as per the original P53s. Cheers.
I was actually watching this video because I couldn't understand exactly what they were talking about in my history book. lol
He tore off the cartridge instead of biting it. This guy is a Sepoy!
Tearing from 1859....
Thanks for the kind words
Are you wearing some kind of uniform?
No. Its just a waxed cotton jacket. It has a cape that attaches under the collar and under the arms. I like it for shooting as it is waterproof and puts up with all the abuse, dirt and black powder crap that seems to get all over your clothes when shooting. The equipment is, for the most part, made up of various reproductions of the appropriate kit. I made the haversack and the crossbelt.
britishmuzzleloaders
Impressive.
Why is the cartridge box the carbine version? Isn’t that a rifled musket? Or I’m wrong.
Don't know what you are referring to...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Look up a civil war cartridge box, notice how big they are and when you open them, there is another smaller storage space behind the flap, then search up a carbine cartridge box, they are smaller, don't have a strap, and don't have that extra storage space behind the flap
This rifle caused a huge revolt in India.
Not quite... it sparked the Mutiny, but did not "cause" it.
no wonder how many died only while reloading this thing
Sure.
Great video! I myself am a big fan of the pattern 1853. I would love for you to make a video on how you clean an maintain your Enfields. Keep up the good work!
Cap も作るのですかね?
No.
I too am familiar with the accounts that you state. All I meant was that the first War Office document to prescribe tearing with the fingers was in 1859 ,local practice and General Orders from India notwithstanding. So many of the accounts are confusing and contradictory. There is an account of a trial in which it is clear that the sepoy in question are referring to the paper as being greasy, vice the grease applied to it.... So much to disscuss and only 500 characters to do it in.
The rifle associated with and also cause of 1857 Indian Mutiny of Independence. Thanks for demonstrating the purpose of grease.
That is correct to a degree. It did not cause the Mutiny, rather, it touched it off... the causes were many and long standing.
In Argentina, the grenadiers used similar muskets with pins and those paper catridges bulets and I have always wondered how they loaded them, thanks to this video I now understand how they did it. Thanks.
Cheers!
It only said that the cartridges were supposed to be made with bees wax and a rumor of animal fat being used caused the Hindu soldiers to not load their weapons in defiance of British orders.
Your welcome! I really enjoy all your videos and I've learn a lot from them.
The change was actually "officially" after the mutiny in the Field Exercises and Evolutions of Infantry of 1859.
Such an unforgettable rifle, so many wars this served in, I can't name all of them but the first few that come to mind are the Crimean war, Sepoy mutiny and American Civil war
For sure!
Nise 1pise
👍
upsc
?
This gun's cartridge was the cause of India's first violent independence movement🙂
No, it did not cause the Mutiny,… it started it… there is a difference…
I watch guys load these, and American style minie. Seems the English is a little faster. But watching people do it I can’t tell you why.
Don’t know how much loading I’ve watched but it’s still fun
This is a much more refined cartridge. It is definitely faster.
In 1857, india. There were enfield rifles introduced by the british. There was a rumor going on that the paper was greased with the fat of pigs and cows. That's why Indian british soldiers did not use these rifles.
It kinda looks similar to thw one ypu have.
This is the Enfield Rifle-Musket you refer to. I think you refer to the mutinous East India Company soldiers...
Before guns became show pieces and clothing accessories. If you seen someone with that monstrosity, you knew that they meant business....
Sure thing!
🙂OH FUCK THIS RIFLE IS ONE OF THE CAUSE OF 1857 REVOLT OF INDIA..
Not the rifle,..... but it's ammunition,... Yes,... 'one' of the causes....
Hey I had just bought this 1853 Lee Enfield and was wondering what I use to load I have the bullets but not sure on if I need patches or what
There is lot's of P53 content here on the Channel!
good stuff
Sorry for the initially short comment, I'm trying to get into the habit of commenting for the video's performance in the messed up system.
Thank you!
I’ve literally never seen the part where you snap the cartridge off, but then again most of the musketry that I’ve seen is in movies where they use blanks.
Glad you found it interesting! Cheers.
Where can i buy one! Oh and can you give me a link to the Ammo!
Ammo is made by myself.
You tear off the cartridge with your hands. Sepoys were forced to tear off the cartridges with their mouth.
Just like every other cartridge up to that point... The hand method was suggested for use during the incipient stages of the Mutiny, as perhaps an alternative that would be seen to be viable compromise...
Formidable
1857 revolution hero "Mangal pandey".
Sure thing.
We remember, 1857 First freedom fight war against British by Bharateeyas because of this gun. Jai Hind. Jai Bharath. Vande mataram. 🇮🇳
Far more reasons for the 1857 than just the cartridge,......
@@britishmuzzleloaders surely, the kind of suppression from EIC on the people, the kind of looted our country, still we stand firmly in the international level. 🙏🏻
Why taking time to make cartridge when you could put it directly
You need the paper to make the bullet function properly.
Ah yes those muskets remind me of good american civil war
OK.
Gun that ignited first Indian war of Independence
or the Mutiny....
Makes me wonder which rifle is better the 1853 Enfield or the 1861 Springfield
They are essentially the same technology... small differences in the stock shape are probably the biggest difference.... oh and the sights.... more precise sights on the Enfield.
@@britishmuzzleloaders do you have any recommendations on what type of powder to use like companies to use wether German goex or swiss
What country and uniform are you portraying?
No uniform... just personal winter clothing....
Why oh why must blackpowder firearms receive the harshest control methods where I live. :-(
What name/style is the expense pouch known as? I'm trying to find a replica online but dont know the proper name to search by. I'm trying to collect the accoutrement for my 3 band p53 Nepal copy.
Its an 1855 Expense Pouch. Search "Graham the Leather Guy" on FB.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thanks. I looked at his page, great work.
this gun is where mangal panday used that and refused it
Sure…. It’s all very complicated… The Mutiny.
Наушники в конце зря одел. Испортил всю суть.лучше беруши незаметные вставь.
It is not. It is a liberal arts textbook about varying perspectives on historical events outside of a Western bias.
And sorry to be a pain but I have to ask when are going to get around to the Ross rifle I know it got a bad rep in ww1 but I've also read it was favoured by snipers so it can't have been that bad and you sir do not strike me as one that would shirk from a controversy
Love the videos.
Glad you like them!
The Pritchett cartridge was a good design. Higher velocity and faster loading then the Burton cartridge. Good demo.
Cheers!
Great video man helped me understand why the indian soldiers revolted against this rifle 👍
Just the ones in the Bengal Army...
@@britishmuzzleloaders still part of India
Could you show us how to roll a cartridge and what paper is best to use?
Well, i've gotta question. I saw people putting in the powder and then insert the minie ball and throw away the rest of the cartridge. Here, the good men is putting the whole cartridge into the barrel. In another video i saw someone making cartridges for the enfield and the cartridge was relatively thick, because it consists of more then one thicknes.
If i insert the minie ball into the barrel WITH the cartridge the minie ball has to be a smaller caliber, so that the paper fits in too. But when i will fire the gun, the minie ball will flutter through the barrel, because there is a space because of the inserted paper. The "rifle" effect will not take place.
If i take the standard caliber the catridge won't fit in the barrel too.
I need help. What shall i do?
+Valmir von Vesver Hi there. It would seem that you have an understanding of the relationship between the bullet, paper and the bore size. This is a good thing.. If you will permit me to educate you as to the function of an "expanding ball" I will.... First it is important to understand how a bullet of this type works... The bullet is indeed smaller than the bore, to allow for loading. When the bullet is fired, the gases from the powder burning expand so fast that the skirt of the bullet expands outward before the bullet actually starts moving down the barrel. This does two things: Firstly, it seals the barrel and prevents any gas "cutting" by the bullet... all the gas is behind the bullet making the firing as efficient as possible. Second, the expanding of the skirt pushes the lead into the grooves of the rifling, thereby causing the bullet to spin down the barrel and is stabilized in flight. Now, this effect happens with all kinds of expanding ball.. either the American Burton-style bullet (with the grease grooves) or the British Pritchett-style bullet (with smooth sides). The bullet will grip the rifling... this is the whole premise of the design.. With the American Burton-style bullet (which you seem to be familiar with) the bullet, for best shooting, needs to be one or two thou smaller than the barrel. This commonly makes for a bullet that is about .575-.579) With the Pritchett, the bullet needs to be smaller than the bore by the thickness of the two wraps of paper that surround it in the cartridge (actually this measurement is "4 paper thicknesses"). This makes for a bullet that is about .564 or so, depending on the paper thickness. These bullets are part of two completely different systems and are sized appropriately. American bullet are designed to loaded "naked" and are themselves close to bore size, as you indicated. The British bullet is designed to be shot as part of a paper patch system... The powder cylinder is snapped off the cartridge leaving the bottom part of the paper (which is where the lube is applied) around the bullet in the barrel. So yes, if you try and make British style cartridges with an American style bullet, you won't be able to fit it into the barrel. Pritchett bullet moulds are relatively rare though NOE has one in their line now. Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders , touché. This was a very informative explanation and thank you for this fast one. But it leads to more questions.
Why are american style bullets put in, as you said, "naked"? what makes the differenze. You already pointed out that the british style bullet is smaller to expand the skirt. in contrast to this, the naked bullet fits in the barrel without leaving any space for paper. Will the skirt expand? is there any sense?
What caliber bullet do u use? if its calibre .577 do i have to buy a smaller one to get the english "effect".?
thanks
Valmir von Vesver
Part of any black power shooting is the appropriate application of lubrication. Black powder fouling is very hard and without something to keep it soft, you wouldn't be able to load something with fine tolerances like a "minie" bullet. The Americans came up with a system whereby the lube was held in grooves on the bullet. The British used the paper that was around their bullet to "hold" the lube.. (the cartridge was dipped in molten lube as part of the manufacturing process).. I think that you are misunderstanding the concept of having the bullet smaller.. The bullet isn't "smaller to expand the skirt". The Pritchett is smaller than the Burton because it has to accomodate the paper thickness in the bore... ALL expanding balls use the principle of an expanding skirt. The skirt will expand whether there is paper around it (in the case of the Pritchett) or not (in the case of the Burton)
My bullets (Pritchetts) are .564 + (4 x .003" for the paper) + .001 (for the windage) = .577, the bore size. For an American style buyllet in the same bore, you want a bullet that is .576 + .001 (windage) = .577
This is quite helpful. I do have another question, personally, and i'm sorry this is responding to a year old comment but i was researching this for a story of mine.
Does the paper around the cartridge affect the accuracy at all? How does the bullet grip the rifling if the paper is wrapped around it, does the ball get shot out of the paper within the barrel?
An Ro v
What was used to lub the bullet..
Shortening and beeswax.
i always saw my husband watching history and firearms channels on UA-cam and i am quite interested now in looking at these myself.
i love learning more and joining my husband in his hobbies
Cheers!
Hello. I too load my P-H (1st gen) P1853 with paper cartridges. However, I have to use US cartridge and methods due to not being able to find a source for Pritchett .565 dia bullets or a sizing die to trim .575 Minies. May I ask, what do you use and where did you get them? If I may, cost?
Thanks!
HI there. The bullet is from a mould made by "Brooks Moulds" in Montana, USA. It is .564 and is adjustable for length from about .96 to 1.1 inches. I designed it and sent the drawing to them.. A fine mould to say the least. Their moulds are not cheap though (google them to find the latest pricing) and are what one might call "top of the line". You can get sizing dies that will size a Burton down (S&S Firearms and Lodgewood) but by the time you squeeze it down by .01 you are going to have a lot of deformity. I should think that, although they will function, you will not get any real accuracy out of them. I tried that when I was starting out down "the road to the Pritchett" and this was my experience. If you really want to experience the correct ammo for your Enfield, you're going to want to save up and get a proper mould. I did and it's the best "shooting money" I ever spent (apart from my P53 and P58, of course).
Are you alive soldier.?
?
in amused tone of voice 'Damned Limey, trying sell us their poor excuse of a musket where I can't use my Springfield bullet mold and can't turn it into a trapdoor rifle.'😉
Ah,.... but you can turn it into a Snider.....
Great video! I don't know how I missed it when you posted it on the forum. :)
so much excellent conten
Thanks!
Hello i wanted to know where you bought the white leather primer pouch
i am looking for one in white to complete an austrian infantry pouch from the 1864-1866 campaigns thanks Richard
Richard Krotec Hi there. I got it from Bill at Heritage Leathers. Sadly they are out of business. Google "British enfield cap pouch" and you are sure to get something... Cheers.
The incident laid out here, is done so now, because the statute of limitations and the Retired Major, has passed on. Now over the summer, I was stopping in on a private- commercial range. The grandson of the owner and I got along great. so us kids could shoot without too much attention. So one Friday night, I get there and "granddad" was away with his sweetheart. "Doug" wanted to shoot the PH53 Replica and had enough bullets and caps to do our best. So we went about getting the loading parts together - black-powder too. So we fire the first shot and nothing really was bad. Some smoke. So Doug continues shooting and once the third was popped - Doug wants me to shoot. Nive firearm, but the smoke is getting a little thick.
Next - his sister shows up and comments about smoke in the house. We had all the windows open for about an hour before they got home.
Sis did not tell, and we just kept shooting 22 for the night. PS All this was on a 22 INDOOR Range - connected to a house.
Cheers - I still wonder if he knew.
Thanks for sharing!
Who else thinks he could be Ron swansons brother?
Apparently you and many others. :-)
britishmuzzleloaders Apparently so
Thanks. I was curious how it compared to its American contemporary.
It's essentially the same weapon... the ammunition however is completely different and the key to it's superiority.
Great video..what size bullet are you using to make a paper cartridges??
It's .564... lots of info on it and other aspects on the Channel, if you are interested.
Is springfield cartridge easier to make? due to the bullet size is undersized like .577 ?
Hi there. The thing about both versions of the American cartridge is that they don't require the same tolerances as the British. The American styles are simply "containers" for the powder and ball. The British style is integral to shooting and as such needs to be of such dimension as to facilitate a tight roll around the bullet. This means that the mandrel and the thickness of the materials used for the powder cylinder need to be exact so that the finished product is VERY close to the dimension of the bullet (.568 or .55 depending on the pattern of bullet). This ensures that the outer wrapper is tight and parallel to the sides of the bullet and that loading will not cause the paper to displace or wrinkle. That said, the British cartridge is much faster and simpler to use. As for the bullets, both are undersize to a degree. The American Burton is around .575 or so as it is loaded "naked" and the British Pritchett is smaller at around .568, though later decreased to .55, due to the two wraps of paper around the bullet when loading.
How much of an issue is it handling the percussion caps? I imagine it would be quite difficult placing percussion caps on the nipple, especially in battle conditions or bad weather.
They are fiddly, but the pouch on the chest makes them easy to get at.... If you are interested have a look at the other Enfield videos and you'll see the level of difficulty (or lack of it) there is in capping.
but my question is, first of all, brilliant video but how on earth would a soldier in the 1850's be able to load the musket quickly in the midst of a war? It seems quite tedious to shoot multiple bullets as they do take a significant amount of time to load per shot
He would load it like everyone else was doing, including those on the other side.. all part of the paradigm of the age...
Who else came from Indian independence movement ?
I don't know what that is. Isn't India already independent?
Thanks now i can elaborate on enfield rifle on my history exam tomorrow lol
Glad to hear!
This is a really late question and I am sorry for this lateness but I must ask, why does the percussion cap go last in the loading drills and sequences?
I suppose that it is a bit safer and without having to prime with powder from the cartridge, it makes sense to do it at the end.
what is the size of your bullet and the thickness of the paper ?
Hi there. The bullet is .563/4 x 1.06 and the paper is .003 (wrapped twice for four (4) thicknesses). If you are interested, there are other videos on the channel that explain in detail the specs and method of construction used to make the cartridges….. If you are so inclined. Cheers.
Darn it! Is it a rifle with spiral grooves or a smooth bore musket?
The P53 is a rifle.
Hi great videos. Do you have any concerning the enfield .577 muskatoon? I see you have many videos on the 2 band rife and 3 band rifle musket but none on the carbine sizes.
Not yet. I have an Artillery Carbine (the real name for it) and will eventually get around to a video on it.
Was it a common practice to carry the cap box across the chest like that?
Yes,...... (Generally) mixed waist belt and tunic mounted cap pouches in the early and mid 1850s, chest mounted from then until the Snider.
Back in Daniel Boone's time he used a Powder horn so did people in the Civil war
Sure!
@@britishmuzzleloaders I'm curious how much powder do you put in the gun
@@joncal4713 this one? 52.5 gr FFFg Goex.
@@britishmuzzleloaders oh okay
Wait, don't you bite the cartridge open?
Biting was replaced in 1859...
Hello Rob, I was just curious if you had any issues with powder sticking to the inside of the inner plastic powder cylinder? I purchased and use the same exact plastic tubing, but have found that the 3f goex powder I use likes to stick to the sides of this varient of powder cylinder.
Hi there. Maybe the odd grain or so, but nothin that would effect the amount going into the barrel...
britishmuzzleloaders gotchya, thanks