Don't fit Airplane parts in a WW2 jeep
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2021
- If I find the GI who came up with this story he's in big trouble!
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Many thanks to PaddyPatrone for allowing me to use Me109 Footage from his channel
/ paddypatrone - Авто та транспорт
The 109 runs a LOT of boost to get more out of the thin air. Plugs probably are setup to be a very cold heat range and high resistance to survive the setup. The old flatheads have low compression and low cyl temps. That means lower resistance and hotter plus to keep the candle lit
So here is what you do, when I was in the Army back in the 1970s the early 70s the motor pool had spark plug wire on big rolls so what we did to get an M 38 A1 running was you cut the wire to the length you need then you take a little bit of the wire poking out of the end and you folded back on itself and then you wrap friction tape around it to make up the Gap inside the hollow center of the plug and distributor and you stick it in the distributor cap and the spark plug and you stick it all the way down to the bottom and it works fairly well. the tape rolled up on The Wire Holds it in place inside the spark plug securely and the same thing with the hole in the distributor cap until you can get the proper waterproof spark plug lead.
Because of the deep in the head location the timing needs to be advanced about twelve degrees. Best guess. You did mention that and the old timers would have been very familiar with this.
No, the timing is correct for the engine.
"12 degrees, 🤡"
🤣🤣🤣
It runs like poo because the ignition systems of the Jeep has waaaaay too little energy to drive an aircraft sparkplug, clearly shown is that baby-spark. One of these firing properly lights up like a flash with a clearly audible *click* .
@@bigcheese781 I adhere to your theory.
@@bigcheese781 Nailed it . The jeep ignition just does not have the voltage to drive those plugs. The Aircraft plugs are driven by a mag not a wimpy little coil triggered by points. Later mil equipment ground equipment used the waterproof aircraft plugs but was also driven with HEI ignition systems.
Brilliant! the footage, the attentive Frisians in audience, the quick dialog----the interesting history, the beautifully restored Willy's....the bel Eagle oil can under the hood and all those wonderful little bits. The crazy story, in my mind, proved well enough true....Well Done! looking forward to more cool WW-2 stories. Variants among the different theatres of war and the innovative additions will be interesting, given the high caliber of your production and story telling abilities. Right on!
It's like WWII edition of Mythbusters!
Great video!
Thanks Bobby!
"If it's stupid, but it works...... It ain't stupid!"
I have an ex-girlfriend whose grandfather used to win bar bets during the war by running am MB/GPW around on ONE cylinder... The number 4 cylinder will run the engine just fine- start and drive- with the others disconnected. Need to use lots of choke to get it started however, as I recall... I used to use that trick, as well as hand crank my old MB, just for the S&G value...
Matt you've taken your L-134 into the Luftwaffa's rare air...an amalgamation of Teutonic engineering and American assembly line.Leave it to a curios Brit who really knows how to tinker....Well done sir!
Good video but I think the major problem lays in the fact that the mags on the 109 deliver a much higher voltage that the coil on the Jeep can possibly deliver thus a weak spark and fuel soak.
And higher voltage. Probably 220v like American planes.
@@altongehringer9858 Actually coil voltages are in the 30-50K range . Not sure of the magnetos output but substantially higher given the higher compression and the use of a turbo or supercharger..
Nice, I didn't expect it to actually run. Freaking awesome. Story seems legit.
Reuse the washer from the Jeep sparkplug, and re-gap the bf-109 sparkplugs. And you didn't use the actual wires and connectors from either the actual harness you have, or get a modern built version.
EDIT: To be clear, those first two things are a requirement, and would be the thing a mechanic would do. The last is just nice.
Its a interesting experience. Local audience seemed moooch interested and jeep looks realy great. Thanks for sharing, keep good work.
Aircraft usually have twin ignition systems. The BF-109 probably had two of those plugs per cylinder!
Excellent video! I am sure that the mechanics would have fiddled around with the engine, and perhaps the gap, to make it run a little better. It was war, and as Voltaire said, perfect if the enemy of the good. Thanks for this video!
A lot of Jalopy builders back in the day - cobbling running vehicles together out of all sorts of non-standard parts.
Fitting a plug wire to a non-standard size plug would not have been that big a challenge when your choice was that or nothing.
doesn't have to be perfect, just has to get you buy until the right parts catch up.
This channel is amazing. I'm picking up a cj2a in a few days. Similar stuff. But the fact you do all these awesome things with your jeep is truly great. You obviously love your vehicle, but you actually use it.
The radio jeeps had shielded spark plugs that look like the 109 plug with the screw on lead so the engine wouldn't interfere with radio reception and broadcasting. We used shielded plug and stuck the lead in to the cavity and sealed it with gasket sealer and electric tape.
From my memory, aircraft spark plugs were superior to car, and it was common to find aircraft spark plugs used by car geeks in the 50's and 60's. You have to look at that aircraft plug, it makes two sparks not one like the car plug does. A lot of spark plug tech prior to about 1920 was car focused, but after 1920 as aircraft engines demanded more work from a plug aircraft spark plugs took the focus and today things like split fire, platinum coating went from aircraft to car. ....also, I have a feeling the old plane plugs might be a bit corroded internally.
Aircraft ignition systems has much higher spark energy than that one in the Jeep. One of those plugs firing properly lights up as a Christmas tree on fire! That baby spark isn't enough to start a flame front reliably, this is the main problem.
Looking through the comments makes you laugh at the amateur mechanics pulling guesses out of their asses... ignition timing, re-gap the plugs, wrong octane... 🤣🤣🤣 No, that's all wrong! The spark plug doesn't decide what octane an engine needs, the engine has the right timing since it runs with it. It needs a big fat spark and it'll run ok, for a while... until plugs fouling gets it.
The plane prob has a magneto not a coil like the jeep. Way higher amp out put, and spark plugs are designed w resistance in them. Jeep just wont junp the gap w any energy
How very interesting! I suspect that they only used one, or maybe two, Me109 plugs as a short term stop gap solution to get them moving again. The Allies had fantastic logistics and material supply during the war, so I doubt that any theatres were short on vehicle spares for any significant period of time.
Plus I’m sure there must have been loads of wrecked Jeeps to rob bits off of, certainly more than wrecked 109s
I much prefer the exhaust note of the Messerschmidt over the Merlin. Yes that's blasphemy.
time to test your 109 with jeep spark plugs next, see if it will still fly
it won't! jeep spark plugs would work well enough to take you to the crash site!
Will the jeep,finally be able to reach 88MPH and go back to 1944 and get some original extra parts brand new from the factory?
Run Marty!
Plus, you can mount a .30 cal machine gun to really give the Libyans a shock!
I wonder if they used 100 octane fuel?
Bored soldiery will sometimes try stuff just for fun, an airman I once knew explained how the guys built an electric motorbike using two scrap tailwheels and a starter motor, all hooked together to a 'spare' aircraft battery.
World War 2 octane ratings are very different from those used today. Aviation gasoline formulations of the era, when tested using the U.S. retail pump standard "(R+M)/2" method typical test out to be in the range of 92 to 96 octane rating.
Yes, you may struggle fitting your Rolls Royce Merlin engine in it, but it would have propelled WWII Germans to dive for cover!🤣
109 plugs are too cold,meant to be used in a high performance engine…timing would have to be increased
Conclusion : As always , journalists have no clue of what they are talking about....
Aircraft engines then used very small plug gaps so to reduce resistance to keep the wires from arcing inside the harnesses. The harnesses were also sealed and bathed in compressed air for the same reasons. The tiny air gaps (~.015") would hardly work in an earth bound auto; that soldier was being "cute".
Just one can do a video like that!!
OK!!Now with your video we know conception of engines is definitely not the same, and maybe the difference about compression in head cylinders between ME109 engine and jeep engine can explain a lot why spark plugs are so different.
Easy solution to make the Bf109 plug fit the Jeep lead: Cut a piece of C-Ration tin and use it as a shim, jam it into the plug, presto, you can now plug your Jeep lead in.
Brilliant stuff and so entertaining.
Quick, call Greg! He's probably got all the specs on Me 109 plugs complete with tables and graphs, and could explain the problem in an entertaining 30 minute video.
Willys jeep is my favorite American ww2 vehicle
I think they would have cut the wires out of the 109, stripped the end and jammed it in the distributor cap... Lots of things can be "bodged" together... lol
As Adam Savage of the Mythbusters would say, "we have proof of concept!"
You may have the answer to this.
Some Older Military Jeeps were capable of driving in deep water.
They had a snorkel for the carburetor and plugs, wires and distributor and cap that was sealed.
The wires screwed on the cap and plugs to keep the water out.
Just wondering how close they come to looking the same the Messerschmitt wires and plugs.
another way that helped a ton and was a feature that served two purposes: the fan belt was easy to loosen for easy changing of the belt without tools, but the main reason for this feature was so that during fording, the immersed fan blades would not throw water all over the engine that would have then caused loss of spark were the fan still spinning. Simply lifting the lever on the generator bracket kept the fan from spinning while fording. This feature is actually highlighted in a US Army training film and I believe, may be included in a segment in the video "The Jeep, the unstoppable soldier" I'll dig my copy out of a storage box and post the proper title, etc., for those who may be interested in this bit of historical footage complete with the classic affectations of vintage narration.
I would think the 109 used a much higher octane fuel, perhaps that has some bearing on things..
Haha... No!🤣
The spark plug doesn't decide what octane rating an engine needs. The compression ratio does.
@@bigcheese781 Not to mention higher octane fuel burns slower than low octane fuel.
Great experiment! .. I can imagine nobody else would take the time!!! ... Very entertaining as well!! :)
3:30 .. when I was in high school in Auto Shop, we had a sparkplug reconditioning machine that sandblasted the sparkplug (you just popped in in a rubber boot) ... then you rinsed it, gapped it, and put it back in a second rubber boot .... and it would run a 10 second spark test, and you compared the spark colour to a chart, and re-gapped it as indicated.
Use cabling of a DKW Munga ( First „ Jeep“ of the Bundeswehr).They use the same threaded and shielded cables between coils and sparkplugs as the ME109. They are heavily shielded against radio interference.
That’s a very interesting insight….
I would have viewed this one anyway, but kudos to he who “fessed up“ quite early in the video (that is, didn´t wait to almost the end to divulge the secret) to indicate which Me-109 part _could_ have gone into a _Jeep_ without modification.
What do you know! I learned a lot from the old-timers´ comments.
BTW, did you not say in one video that the compression ratio of the flathead _Jeep_ engine was about 6.5 to 1? That is the CR of the DB-601 as well. Presumably, this is a spark plug from an early model Bf-109, which used 87-octane B4 (blue) fuel. A misunderstanding of the _Motor_ octane rating system used by the Germans meant that it was roughly equivalent to Allied 100-octane aviation fuel; on the other hand, fuel used for (Allied) motor _vehicles_ was about 88 (Research) octane number.
If you adjusted the gap to be a touch wider, I'd bet the combustion would clean up.
Will the jeep fly over the English channel...?
109's were pretty good at that!
@@Greendot319 True, but not that many made it BACK across the channel!
In the next episode we fit WW2 Jeep spark plugs in a ME109 and go for a test flight !
Would've stuffed the sparkplug hole with foil with the jeep wire in.
i don't believe that it would be an issue that the plugs are set almost flush in the head. since the flat heads aren't a cross flow design the fuel mixture essentially crashes into the head every time it enters the cylinder. the 109 plugs may allow you to run more lean and the timing moer advanced than the normal an7
one thing that may be necessary is hardened valve seats due to the leaner mixture and more advanced timing which creates more heat during combustion. the risk of damaging the valve seats is high in those conditions.
well done it will certainly get you out of trouble
Awesome!
What are the chances that there's an abundance of crashed 109s, but no damaged Jeeps to take the plugs out of?
If you search UA-cam you will see a few engines like the Kohler K331 with both regular and shielded sparks plugs. Its questions of finding a correct plugs to use.
I would bet you could make that work long enough to get out of a bad situation if you had the capability.
You're over thinking the plug wires. A few wraps of tin foil will put it right.
I think it would run better if the gap on DB605 plugs was opened up a bit.
Yes, if the gap is right it should work.
I truly believe that if you had done a little old fashioned trouble shooting, that you might have had better results.
Things like figuring out if you had a dead plug, our if gap settings made much difference.
Also - are you running copper plug wires - or resister type?
I understand that you certainly don't want to do anything to foul up that lovely jeep of yours -
but that would never have been the attitude in a motor pool short on parts.
Those old, low compression engines would tolerate things you could never do with a modern engine.
Just looking at those plugs, I would point out that the story was from Italy - so cold starting might not have been an issue.
The Americans would have had access to aircraft fuel too which would help. Also they could have played with the distributor advance too. Think it could be made to work and I'm sure many other mods where tried to keep vehicles and equipment running. Something that runs is better than something that doesn't run at all.
I can't believe a Metric and a Standard American English thread could match.
Spark plugs have been metric for a long time.
sounded more like the engine the spark plugs came out of.....once I find some Me 109 plugs, it's time to replicate the experiment here in Northern California.....this time in a 4-24-1942 Ford GPW
im surprised the threads were the same? metric to us scale?
A lot of US engine manufacturers switched to metric plug threads in the 1930s
Great video. Which camera??
Nice video could you do a video on brakes and axels?
Changing the gap would probably improve performance from the aircraft engine spark plug.
n american GI from a farm or small town would have the ability to rig anything to work. being from the depression they were not purest. many came from the west , midwest, south, Alaska, and Canada. most could fix something on the run with whatever they could find.
Your 109 plugs need much more grunt - eg. if you touch a jeep's HT lead while it's running you'll say 'Yuk yuk yuk', do the same to a 109's magneto lead & you could loose an arm - hence all that heavy shielding on their leads & fittings.
Give your dizzy drive a real birthday party & chuck on an aircraft magneto rated for those plugs, chances are she'll then run quite happily on Dandelion & Burdock . . . (avoid Fanta, they'll start singing & tend to 'go off on one'.) : )
I wonder if running it leaner and a bit hotter this would work a bit better.
I plan to watch this video eventually, but for the moment, I'm hung up looping from 0:57.
My guess is ,not only compression linked with aviation gas but also 109 ignition system input and output through coil. Not saying it was done but those guys back then tinkered and messed with everything, if Air Corps mechs started playing and had time with motivation linked to who knows how much junk parts....
Will be able to bring back some original OD paint cans and put an end to the eteeernal discussion of wich OD is the correct OD?????
I already know that one, there is no correct OD, just like getting paint today the Shade changes from one batch to the next, no worries!
At least it ran & that's what was important The article wasn't total BS. I bet someone caught Hell for running out of spark plugs & had to improvise in a hurry.
What are you running for Octane in the jeep? Maybe you DB605 plugs needed boast and higher octane fuel to fire right? Besides 70 year old plugs, what would you expect. I was surprised they fired at all.
Say this is curious stuff
If I remember correctly (and maybe I don't, it's been a while), I ran lawnmower J8's in mine.
Are you rebuilding a 109 too....cool
Open the gap for a hotter spark.
"Jeep" is actually short for "G.P.V."
( "General Purpose Vehicle" )
So "gee pee vee" was shortened to "jeep"
A similar thing happened with "HMMWV"
( High mobility muti-purpose wheeled vehicle) being shortened to "Hum-vee"
"Jeep" is also an old naval term for when boards are laid across a small boat to act as floating docks and gang planks.
The small escort carriers of WWII looked like oversized jeeps , so they were called "Jeep Carriers"
The Popeye character was also named after the naval term too.
Hey brother have you ever put your Jeep on a railroad track to pull a railroad car Like they did in World War II
On the plus side 1 ME109 has enough plugs for 6 Jeeps......
3 jeeps....its a V12
@@lebaillidessavoies3889 But 2 plugs per cylinder !!!
@@robingray1302 U right , 2 plugs per cylinders 👍
Those old plugs could well have been fouled. Once they are misfiring the will build up contaminants very quickly.
Have them abrasive blasted and then see.
Basically any plug will work OK initially but if they are not the correct heat range they will either foul or start detonating.
Aircraft plugs are known to foul very easily (due to running rich mixtures of high lead content fuel). Most pilots know how to clear fouled plugs on engine run up (done on the ground during preflight after the engine is started).
@@brentboswell1294 aircraft engines have 2 plugs / cylinder. Provided one is working combustion usually provides enough heat to burn off sufficient deposits to get the other to fire. But it doesn't burn off all of it, leaving the plug marginal.
@@gregculverwell since the pilot has control of the mixture, you can run the engine up to about 2,000 RPM, and lean the mixture until the engine starts to run a little rough, and let it run for a short time (around 10 seconds) and it burns away anything fouling the plugs (usually carbon plus lead). It smells like your oven cleaning while you do it. Very effective on Lycoming O-320 and O-360 engines. Return the mixture to normal, and try the mag check again. If it doesn't work, time to taxi it back in. Taught to me by a flight instructor friend years ago...
@@brentboswell1294 I'm aware of all of this. I used to fly light aircraft back in the 80s until I switched to gliders.
Also have ridden 2 stroke bikes for many decades I have a lot of experience with fouled plugs, how they behave, how to torch them and the fact that the only way to restore them effectively is abrasive blasting.
can u show us how many people it taks to carry it?
Jeep is 6v right? Airplanes are usually 24v. So basically the plugs could need 400% more voltage to get the right spark jump.
Yeah, I was thinking similarly....A Jeep coil would hardly make those plugs charged enough to make them run effectively....
24v vs 6v does not mean 4x the voltage across the spark plug.
Heat range and spark gap need to open up
How the heck did you manage to get part of the wiring loom from a 109?!
secrets!
It didn’t run good but it still ran and there is some truth to the yank article
spark, timing, fuel, air, yes it will work
👍
Cut the 109's wires and splice onto the jeep wires.
I think they need regaping
If you're in a life/death situation and need to get away but you have no spark plugs, maybe. Then again why waste time trying to get an engine to run, who knows how long when you could use that time to get away? Maybe even steal a German vehicle? I think someone had plugs, plenty of time, was bored and took him time to tinker it to run.
Don't think it will work
Everything would be fine with several more amps coming from a DB605 magneto system.
Would they have used this as a "field expedient" repair? I'd think so. You're out there, and you need plugs. Does the engine not run well? Maybe, BUT it runs. When not trying to get killed by Ze Germans, and with some spare aircraft parts around, welll... maybe sketchy is good enough.
you may need adjust the carburettor to lean it out for the me109 sparkplugs