@@tobywardrop6870 apparently Hublots are appreciate in values with their limited collections. If someone can afford a hublot... it's like you and me buy this $500 knockoff.
Seagull makes good movements. I have a chinese tourbillon and it's worked for years and keeps great time. I feel that watch industry is too exclusive and is all about showing off what others can't have, this is a democratization of a hobby. I'm all for it.
You said it brother, I have dozens of watches because I love the art behind them, similar to cars. It’s art in motion and absolutely incredible that it’s something we’ve made.
They even chamfered the edges of the plates. How many 1000+ USD swiss branded ETA automatic non-complicated watches can say the same? And this is 500 US dollars ... and a tourbillon.
This movement looks better than any Rolex movement, maybe its not finely finished as well... But they seem to put more effort into making their movement look good compared to Rolex... I guess that's why Rolex is scared to add an exhibition case back and show people their generic looking movements.
Everybody has ignored what watchfinder has said in his video, despite it being the topic of every video he makes and that is the history of watches, the Swiss too started out as a cheap watch copier of more famous brands from the UK, France and Germany. You have to start somewhere, the alternative is not to start at all.
people will also be surprised how the car market will look in 10+ years. With electric car manufacturers from China who don't have to build an own motor anymore (well, there is an electric motor) we will get a lot of cars from China which won't be much worse for much less money. Some complicated mechanical stuff will just be bought from companies like ZF or Bosch and the rest isn't be a problem for them anymore. Chines car manufacturers dominate already the electric car market in China as a whole (while they never had a chance again Toyota/VW and so on with fuel powered cars) and they will flood us as well in some years.
It's kinda impressive what 100$ can get you somehow. I got an unbranded Steeldive "Willard" with a Seiko movement. Ticking in about +/- 4 secs a day. I know this falls more into the Microbrand category. But the finishing and everything is something to behold. Nothing to special. But marvellous when I think about what I would get for the same price from Seiko.
When Companies start at Luxury Level, it's hard for them to bring the Cost down. But when companies start at the affordable level, it's easy for them to improve quality over time. That company started with affordability in mind, and their affordable watches will become better, and maybe soon, they will bring a $ 2000 watch that can rival Patek, VC or A Lange.
Not really. Sea-Gulls Perpetual Calendar Tourbillon Minute Repeater costs USD 150,000... (Sea-Gull is the company that makes these Tourbillon Movements, Sugess only puts it into a cheap case and dial)
@@michaelr21 Why Sea Gull not producing themselves in cheap case then?? Lol funny. 😂 I am quite sure China can produce most products with comparable quality and in half price. 😂
@@yuu9258 Oh, Sea-Gull produces multiple Tourbillon Watches with a similar Movement, costing USD 2000-6000. But these have better case quality, better movement quality, better components in the tourbillion movement, better finishing and long guarantee. I have a Sea-Gull Tourbillon and a Sugess Tourbillon - the Sea-Gull Version is far superior...
Just say it, we have been ripped off by Swiss watch companies for years. I think it’s fantastic. If China can give us a watch at this standard for $500 just give us a high quality reliable simple mechanical watch for a $1000 and win the world over.
Swiss watches are so overrated! Why spent thousands of dollars on the timepiece in which you can buy way cheaper but almost the same quality. I love Phoibos and Helm. Looking forward to purchasing this Seagull Sugess to add to my small midrange collection.
@@Whatsup_Abroad you hit the mark on this. People buy a swiss watch for 100k because of the bragging rights, not because they like the watch. in the world of smartphones and apple watch, an authentic watch is just a status symbol. A 1000 Chinese tourbillon will never sway people from a swiss one, but it gives us - who really love watches a chance to admire the movement and craftsmanship. Also, just FYI, many swiss, german, french and Japanese watch companies buy Chinese parts, and some have a whole assembly line in China. So don't be so discriminative when you hear "China" in the watch world.
Swiss watch is different, Swiss tourbillon only available in precious metal case, that more costly. Swiss movement and case workmanship is excellent. Don't forget you have to pay for the operation cost of the boutique, China watch not selling in the luxury boutique, so less operation cost. In addition, luxury brand charge customers for "luxury brand tax", you need to pay premium for the name, as in photography, photographers pay big money to buy Leica stuff because of "Leica tax".
I really appreciate that you can also make honest reviews of watches you'd never sell. Your objectivity is commendable. Kudos to you. I bought a similar Chinese Tourbillon for around $450 (same dimensions, it just has a blue dial with some constellations stamped on it). It's not the best watch in the world, but a risk worth taking if you want to be able to look at a Tourbillon up close
Just curious how long you've had it and how well its held up? I'd like to be able to check out a tourbillion in person and add one to my collection but not spending $15,000+. I haven't seen many long term reviews of these.
I don't usually watch these for the comedic writing, but I actually laughed out loud at some of these quips. You quietly sold me on this watch while politely ripping it apart.
he says it’s awesome but it’s sucks but wait it actually does not suck that much ah wait it dies😂😂😂😂You watch Ted baldassar reciewing tudor 1926 it’s so confusing but very honest
I've owned one for about a year now. I've only worn it about 6 times, but I put a nice handmade strap on it, and it sits in my watch box next to my Rolexes, Omegas, a Panerai, and a Grand Seiko. It looks right at home. I enjoy wearing it, and staring at it.
@@KhoiBoa That is an inaccurate statement, as I care, and I suspect the 39 other people who liked this comment do as well. Posts like this baffle me. I never understood trolls.
This I can get behind. I don't want one, but unlike the kickstarter wannabes that copy others' designs, or lie about their specifications, this one isn't pretending to be something it isn't and that garners it a lot of forgiveness. Even a bit of respect, if I'm honest.
Umm...hate to break it to you, but this is actually made by a company that is faking sea-gull chinese watches. The chinese are now faking chinese products ironically.
Some so called kickstarters even dropship crap from Aliexpress and claim the dropship packaging is because of cutting out the middle man to reduce costs lol
Watchfinder skipped to mention that a tourbillon is not merely a luxury movement but extremely difficult to manufacture. It is not just in the finishing. Only a very few manufacturers are capable of making it.
The reason I'm subscribed to this channel is for the numerous top notch erudite descriptions spoken here. The narration alone is worthy of subscription. Full marks, yet again @WatchFinder.
Geneva seal is given in consideration of 4-5 Parameters . High end Seiko's are tested in consideration of 6 parameters . Geneva seal doesn't mean Shit.
Tourbillons are so overrated and honestly overpriced. The big brands want to make you believe as if it was something extraordinary, but as an engineer, I can tell you that neither mechanically nor from a manufacturing standpoint it is a big deal in the 21st century. Same thing with the minute repeaters, that nobody really needs anymore since the invention of lume, they are quite simple mechanisms, a bit odd and quite entertaining, but still the only thing that would justify a higher price is their huge part count. Nothing special there. The fine metallurgy and all the careful manufacturing with great finishes and hand assembly do justify a higher price. but 100 1.000s of €´s? come on. Only buy if you do not know anymore what to do with your money
Of course on a technical level this is peanuts, people are making things at nanometer level. Everything that is being done in the mechanical watch world is still the same as it was decades ago except the process of making it has become better and cheaper. The Japanese pass those savings to the customers and the swiss keep it in their pockets.
Mechanical watches in general are overrated by that definition, they don't do anything an Apple Watch won't do, yet here we are watching a video about a watch we never heard of and will probably not buy and not for the usual "it costs as much as my car/house" but just because, there's beauty in them
@@stefangrubesic2708 unfortunately an Apple Watch will be obsolete in a few years as it won’t be supported by Apple due to its OS age. They’re cheaply made in China too yet overpriced.
@@JoePetoti They don’t seem to care as much about manufacturing exclusive cars, bikes or watches. I suspect a factor in this is that well-heeled Chinese patronise the usual western brands.
I have had a couple of Chinese tourbillons for a few years now, one from the Shanghai watch company, and one with an earlier Seagull movement. They are accurate, and have been trouble-free. One downside has been that the canon pinion is not in the exact centre of the dial, and the watches present unusual means of dealing with that fact. Both cost significantly more than $500.
I have a similar Sugess tourbillon with enamel dial and it is surprisingly well done for $500. For those who are interested in a tourbillon but can't shell out 5 or 6 figures, these are not bad at all
Love the timing of the video as well. More precise, on Jun 26th, 1801, Abraham-Louis Breguet was granted a patent for his famous invention - tourbillon.
Congratulations for daring to bring a piece of Chinese horology to the channel. I own one Chinese tourbillons with GMT function and day/night display without any issues since 2019. The tourbillon mystique has lost some luister, until you observe the movement with a loupe, that is. But on the naked eye it is a stunning watch to own, and I am very happy with my purchase.
I would love to see what they could do selling a tourbillion watch for $1000, even if 80% of the extra went to finishing processes and tightening up tolerances it would stand as a true competitive watch to Swiss ones.
It's a misnomer that tourbillion is a difficult and complex movement to manufacture. With photolithography we have been able to build transistors , just 5 nanometres apart ! It's just that the luxury watch market thrives upon exclusivity, not affordability, so they have to keep production low and price high to give people a reason to own analogue watches which can be bested by any 5 dollars quartz watch.
I think there is brilliance to be admired in the creation of something so complex yet so affordable. Sacrifices must be made but finding the balance of exactly what and how much to sacrifice is worthy of acknowledgement. Like the video said, I might buy one, even if it becomes a paperweight it'll be a beautiful one.
@@vladimirchervenkov6949 There's still no way in hell it costs close to what they charge for a Swiss Tourbillion to manufacture one. Until a Swiss brand, or some other higher quality brand, puts out a somewhat realistically priced tourbillion... which they probably wont ever do because like when Tag put one out for $15k the Swiss watch industry threw a fit, and thought they'd ruin the market and ability to overcharge people what they do... But until that happens there will always be a market for these. Watch enthusiasts aren't always in a position to spend $15k-150k on a watch, that doesn't mean they don't love the art of watchmaking and want to experience a tourbillion for themselves.
@@vladimirchervenkov6949 Tourbillon was invented in france by Breguet... Sea-Gull has made in-house movements, both recreations and original movements for decades. Are they the best? No. Are they pretty impressive? I'd say so. And besides, Sea-Gull produces a lot of raw components for watches, too. They're one of the largest watch companies on the planet.
This entry into the affordable watch space has me smitten! Cheers Watchfinder! Interlacing these videos with high horology ones seem like the best bet. Keep on trucking!
What does it mean for watchmaking? It means that almost anything is available for far cheaper than what is made in a fetishized perfection factory and for most people that will be more than enough. This particular watch aside, it shows that most of what is prized so highly in watches and other goods- the specs, the perfect finishing, etc- all of that will be rivaled by basic competence and that will be enough for plenty of folks. Those that will buy the VC version of this or the JL will not be buying this- they’re literally paying to have their discernment approved of. But for others, this kind of thing will become more and more numerous and, key here, satisfying ENOUGH to merit purchase.
Guys who "like" watches to impress women who can't tell the difference between a Rolex and an Omega will never touch this piece. People who really appreciate watches for what they are will understand why this is special and cool.
@@aka_pierre Exactly. I love watches because of the movements... I bought my Omega over Rolex because the Rolex movement looks like a cheap ETA movement and doesn't have the technology that the Omega does. Could I have gotten way more attention with a Rolex and impressed people and paid a similar price? Most likely... not many non watch people know Omega... But I cared more about the watch itself not the name... I'd love to own a Swiss tourbillion but I also won't spend $15k on a Tag watch... Or more on one I like. So the Chinese have given people like me the option to own a tourbillion and experience it first hand. For that, I am grateful to them. Maybe someday they will catch up in quality to the Swiss. Then we'll have another quartz crisis for the Swiss makers. The Chinese are getting close on their replica watches.
The Sea-Gull ST1901 is also offered in Sugess watches. Its a column wheel manual chrono. They are well put together and offer elaborate movements for a modest price. Great video!
I guess the issue this raises for horology is whether complications like a tourbillon really do demand the cost premium traditional Swiss watchmakers charge? The Quartz Crisis was a crisis because for all the claims of Swiss watches being the best timekeeping devices a person could own, it turns out a $30 quartz module was 10x better, and the claim to great timekeeping went out the window. I hope the Swiss and other powers-that-be realize that the Chinese are not going away, and that maybe these complications are not so complicated to produce after all.
So having a $500 brick might hurt, but not as much as a $50,000 or more brick. The reliability and robustness of the cheap tourbillon is still a question mark for sure, but something tells me that at the cost it would take to maintain a Swiss made tourbillon over its life, this Chinese tourbillion would probably cost many many times less to replace the entire watch multiple times instead. It's just an interesting "what if" question that won't be answered for decades.
The Swiss are gonna be in TROUBLE 10 years from now... just imagine with tech evolving (3D printing etc..) and what they can do right now already... Trouble!
yep, If a country can operate a microprocessor fab, and assemble iPhones- a mechanical watch is not a big deal" They are already used to nanometer tolerances, a 100th of a mm is child's play. Currently 1 in four movements made in the world comes out of Seagull's factories. (Per the 4&20 podcast guys) Seagull makes a good movement- I own several
The thing with TVs is, you don't care about how rare it is, as long features and quality are impressive. This is not the case with luxury watches. There are also some very rare Sea-Gull Watches - but they are definetly not that cheap. (only fun thing is, rolex watches are not rare and also mass produced [approximately 4 man-hours involed in making one Rolex])
I'm quite surprised about the comment of the cheap looking dial. It's actually an enamel dial. It's not up to the highest level of finishing but for 500 dollar you get a tourbillon watch with enamel dial. I'm not sure what you can expect more. The thing is with these tourbillon movements though that they won't be serviced unless you're happy to pay more money than what the actual watch is worth.
I own the Sugess Sub and it is outstanding watch for the price, far better than my Steinhart, Seiko, and I can even say my Oris all of them which I sold. I was on waiting list for a Tudor bb58, guess what still on it 2 years later, retail games and so on, I simply don't have the desire neither the necessity to play their games or own an item from them anymore. I live in a post communist country, back in the days people waited in lines to have a chance to purchase bananas in special shops, the Rolex retail games remind of this regime. The Sugess sub is with 904L steel, water resistant(ISO-6425), NH35A movement which keeps great time, ceramic bezel, sapphire crystal, folding flip lock clasp + one extra rubber, and it came with a tool for the bracelet for $170, please tell me about the inflation and how Rolex is making everything in house.
@@chinaman1 Its a sad fact that there is a Lot of people who fall for this faked scarcity game used to hike prices and and generate and artificial desire for something rare. It always leaves me with a bad taste and I have so far tapped out of any company that starts this shit. But sadly so far they can recoup the loss with this tactic. Its probably going to blow up into their faces at some point, but for now its something we sadly have to live with.
I've seen models on Alibaba with much better looking dials. This one is pretty generic/cheesy looking... but most people well never get a chance to experience a tourbillion because of the artificial mysticism and markup of Swiss tourbillions... These are the only real opportunity for watch lovers who don't have millions in the bank to get to own one. Id choose a different dial for sure.
Agreed. Today I stumbled upon a new micro brand, Roschenbold. They use the same Seagull tourbillon but on much better looking dial, and they are also around 500 USD. Check them out, you might like them
Thank you Watchfinder for featuring this. These have been available for a while and many choose to ignore it exists or to admit they are actually very good (for the price). The fact that it is made in China should not matter. Unfortunately, to many it means everything. To these folks, nothing made in China should be even considered real. I would even go far to say if this was made by some Swiss startup for the same price, these same folks will set off fireworks celebrating a huge breakthrough. Sad, but what you say is so true; To many, they rather live in blissful ignorance that this watch even exist. Ignoring the world is no longer flat, I say. BTW, just bought the same watch on sale for a mere $300. Benefit of living in Asia and not having to go through 'established and trusted' resellers that sell it for almost double the price.
I don't enjoy supporting a genocidal regime. A country that stands against everything mine does. This company (1:45) is making watches "by order of the Chinese government". It is not just "Made in China", I wish it were that simple, but it never is.
Honestly, I think its a pretty good looking watch. The design overall fits, since they went with Breguet style, numerals and hands and even are trying to have the dial appear enamel like... Is fitting for a tourbillion, like an homage to Breguet. The added increased power reserve and decently decorated movement and being hand wound is nice imo.
@@brandoncufr201 yes, the worst part of the Watch is the logo script. However when you look at the watch it homages the logo script kinda makes sense - as well as being the company's branding widely used elsewhere. I ended up getting the version with Roman numerals, still don't like the branding font.
This is a surprise to many of you all? I am not surprised why the watch prices bloated out of controlled. Luxury brands sells their watches at 99% marked up brand price. You all should know any watches that cost $5,000 above are just made up prices by the brand. The problem is people accepted the price and kept buying. Causing the mark up fake price to bloat even more. Seiko is able to sell most of their Grand Seikos at around $5,000 and that is already including the profits. Those have as good as if not better quality in movement and finishing as any of the swiss brands. These Chinese brands are proof of how bad the market pricing are. This is why I am not ashamed of buying replica watches. Because I know, that those replica watches have closer to the actual realistic price of those luxury brand watches. I have used a few replica watches for a few years now and what do you know, none of them are broken or have any problems. Well in honesty there is 1 with a small problem of the screw down crown got threaded. But that was my own error. And you know what I learned from it? The replica market have as good as the luxury brands after sale services. I sent it back to the seller and they sent it to be fixed like new. Hence why I supported the replica/fake(whatever you wanna call it) market and I hope those market will in the future force those luxury brands fake prices to be reduced to an actually real pricing for it. Or, the Chinese replica makers get good enough in making watches that they can start making their own brands. Like the one in this video.
I‘m sorry, but a blanket statement like ‘any price of a watch that’s more than 5000 dollars is made up by the brand’ is just utter bullshit and proves that you don’t have the slightest clue what the fuck you’re talking about! Now I’m not denying that brands do that, but there’s more than enough watches that are totally worth the money and are actually fair priced. Just one example, I don’t remember exactly which model it was, but it was a watch from Lange that went for 35000 bucks new in yellow gold. I’ve read an article on it many years ago in which they explained how the watch is made and it went something like this: The watch is handmade by a master watch maker who needs 6 months to build one watch. So, let’s assume the guy goes home with 2000 bucks after tax, which means he will cost the company around 3000 bucks a month, so his salary alone over the 6 months is 18000 bucks. Then there’s 19% VAT which is 5700 bucks which brings the total to 23700. Then there’s about 2000 bucks of gold in the watch, which brings the total 25700. Then there’s other bits and pieces, so let’s say the total cost of making the watch is 26000. Then there’s the cost that went into designing the watch and developing the movement from scratch which adds another 2000 or so, so now we’re at 27500. Which means the company makes about 7500 on that one watch and from those 7500 they now pay heating, electricity, water, insurance, secretaries, office costs, taxes, exhibitions, business dinners and flights, executive salaries, advertising and all the other shit that comes with running a factory/company. So, in my opinion the 35000 are a fair price considering what it costs to make the watch and that it is literally a handmade master piece, and there’s countless watches out there that are expensive, but fair priced. Take the million dollar Pateks with a shitload of different complications in one caliber that took a team of engineers 10 years to develop. People in Switzerland earn shitloads of money, they don’t work for peanuts like the Chinese which brings me to my next point, there’s no fucking way you could handmade a tourbillon movement in Switzerland or Germany for 500 bucks because of the labour cost. Why do you think the whole world buys their cheap shit in China? Because no one can produce it for that low of a price in the western world. So again, you know some half truths, but you clearly don’t understand the big picture shit! Time to get back into the classroom and do your homework! Have fun with your cheap shit replicas that fall apart after a couple of months or get so banged up that you can’t wear them anymore! Another telltale sign that you don’t have a clue. For the money you pay for a few replicas you could get actually a decent watch from Seiko or Orient who both make their own in-house movements are of a much better quality than your cheap shit replicas. And if you think that big luxury brands will have their prices dictated by producers of cheap shit replicas then you clearly live in la-la land! What you obviously don’t understand is that the people who pay big bucks for the real deal would never buy cheap shit replicas because they’re cheap shit and vice versa people like you who buy cheap shit will never buy the real deal because they can’t afford it!
Why not just get a used vintage Omega Speedmaster in so-so condition? It will set you back a bit more, but hey, It'll last another 100 years or so, and youll have fine Swiss watchmaking on your wrist that's guaranteed to appreciate, not depreciate. Do you remember those Stauer automatics from China that came out about 15 years ago? You paid $150 for it back then; care to wonder how much the same Stauer in brand new condition will go for nowadays? I myself don't know, because the ones on ebay don't even sell - that's how much Chinese crap like the Stauer depreciates. And like the Stauer, this turbillon looks good...
I had one of these chinese tourbilion from a different brand and as you told so, if you are willing to have a chance to experience a tourbillion for a fraction of a swiss made one, than definetely go for it. Since no one walkes around with a lupe, you will enjoy every second of it.
That's what I thought, really looks like an enamel dial... not 100% sure though, because modern plastics are really good at imitating other materials these days.
I was able to buy a vintage Gucci watch from a dealer for half off once because due to his prices being so high, not a single person at the show bought from him. He said, “if no one buys anything by the end of the show I will consider a discount” I walked up at the end of the show and reminded him, and pointed at the watch I wanted. Unfortunately I live in a non watch friendly town and no one in town is willing to work on it. Ever since seeing watch videos on UA-cam I’ve been wanting to teach myself the art so I can simply restore it myself.
Finally a Seagull. Next up, please get your hands on a Frederique Constant perpetual. Or the Slimline Monolithic. As always. It's a good day when Watchfinder releases a new video.
Oh well, there are AP replica (same 316L steel, same sapphire crystal, same tapisserie dial, same gorgeous bracelet...) with similar tourbillon (without the regulator on sight which isn't nice to see as in this watch) for less than 900$ out there. And I mean real tourbillon, not those atrocious "open heart" ones.
If you’re willing to spend around 1k on one with better dial, check the Waldhoff Vanguard v8. Is a skeleton turbillion, they have one in blue in jomashop and one in black on eBay. Both about $1,050
The issue is there's not a big enough market for these to make that extra investment worth it for the companies. Plus 99% of Chinese brands just order parts and put them together. They don't actually manufacture them. Sugess just buy the movements from seagull
@@Robstrap You know that most sWiSs mAdE watches come to Switzerland in boxes from Southeast Asia and are assembled like a model kit? Sorry not sorry to ruin the illusion but there isn’t a band of Keebler elf like merry men in the Swiss alps making screws and casebacks and sapphire crystals. GTFO of here and death to the Swiss watch industry.
I have 4 Seagull branded watches, and one with Xeric’s brand. All mechanical. My first was purchased in 2009, daydate retrograde. I had since got a dual time dual dial GMT (single movement); and I like Xeric Xeroscope’s movement & dial. It’s a beauty not exactly accurate to adjust, but with a complex movement I managed to learn how to tinker with it. I’m eying another Seagull ST16 rebadge; The Timex Marlin. How good are they? If being copied is considered a badge of honour, then Seagull has won it. I have found Seagull copycats in the market.
If you are really looking for a Chinese watch. I recommend Seagull. Reasonable price and decent quality. This Sugess watch uses movement manufactured by Seagull.
You sound like you are looking for something to dislike and you are being very sarcastic, but the truth is that you should be congratulating the watch company for being able to sell a tourbillon at this price and for the money it's costing you have to be realistic and know that it is not a hand finished watch but it is just a very honest product and for this reason you should be looking at it in wonder at how they can produce the watch at all at the price. BRAVO for effort 👏👏👍
Once again. the take-away line for me is... "This is week 2 after they've completed their health and safety training and found a space for their lunch box in the fridge". Priceless humour!
I'm a watch enthusiasts and my opinion is that the "Swiss made" is nothing but a scam there's no way a watch can cost hundreds of thousands if dosen't have any diamonds
I knew I was onto something when I discovered this website. Here I am looking at a floating tourbillon watch for $529 thinkin "am my out of my f****** mind?"
As said, the big watch makers started as copiers back in the day. Give it another 10, maybe 20 years and you'll be seeing these Chinese brands get a lot neater, tidier, more complex and more expensive. As a daily wearer, this might be a good idea. I mean at £500, I would still be bothered about scratching it, but my heart wouldnt be in my mouth every time I moved like if I took a Rolex to work!
How to make a 10 minute long video without saying anything intersting or meaningful, and yet maintaining commendable cadance of repeating "500 hundred dollars" every 20 seconds. Hats off, you are trully a master of your craft, sir.
I had a similar one several years ago, and it ran very well. It was fun to watch the tourbillon, and is the closest I’ll come to having a Swiss-made one. In the end, the cheapness of the dial proved too disappointing and I sold it for the same amount I bought it.
As noted, the movement is definitely "not bad". Better dial and hands for a $1000 and in my humble opinion this would be a much better option to the entry level Swiss brands like Frederique constant.
Seagull also makes a fantastic and affordable vintage chronograph, the Seagull 1963. I have one and simply love it. If you decide to pick one up, I recommend the 38mm with sapphire crystal and display caseback. It's a beauty.
I have one too. A column wheel chronograph for under £200. It's not perfect but it's way better than the Swiss would churn out for under £200. Swatch Sistem51... I'm looking at you.
If my memory serves me well, Seagull purchased the watchmaking machines of a defunct Swiss manufacturing between 1959-61. Ever since then, Seagull has produced to spec Swiss invented movements; first for the Chinese Air Force.
What you neglect to mention is that these companies are heavily subsidised by the govt in order to damage similar businesses in the west. Also costs are heavily reduced by treating workers like slaves with near starvation wages and spending no money at all on waste management or patent infringements.
Got one it’s actually brilliant for the price!! I got the goldstone one it’s a beautiful watch and can be worn around london without worrying about it being stolen lol.
I own a “Germanasian” watch, powered by a Seagull movement, from a brand (Javelle) so obscure that not even all-mighty Google can shed light on it. It’s not a tourbillon, it’s a jumping hour regulator. I’ve had it for about 5 years now, and so far so good. It keeps good time and the movement is very well decorated, much better looking than many entry-level Schweizer watches. I paid around 200 USD for it 😄
I think it is wonderful that this is being made available to the average person who has been priced out of the luxury watch arena, I will own one of these.
Smart watches are rather beneficial to the luxury watch industry; on the one hand they serve as an introduction to watch wearing for young people and on the other hand they're seriously damaging the fashion watch industry (because smart watches operate in the same price range but offer far more compelling features to young people).
absolutely. it's not an engineering marvel. it's a balance mounted on the carrier of an epicyclic gear. for no improvement in accuracy, it's an extra point of failure and a thicker case. until now it's essentially an afterthought for anyone already sparing no expense on making a watch. but it's nice to see the chinese making the effort to skewer its unearned reputation as a signifier of ultimate luxury, while also making it available to anyone who dreamed of owning one since boyhood. the only question is: now how are people going to impress non-watch people with their watch? [trick question. non-watch people will never care about your watch. and gold-diggers are assessing your shoes, not your boy toys]
I have a jump hour watch from Geckota (based in Gloucestershire UK), that uses a Seagull TY2709 movement. I have a nice daily use watch with a vintage aesthetic for less than a 10th of what a watch with that complication would usually cost. I just like it because I like it.
Yes, I feel the weakest area of Chinese watches is their branding, or lack of it Their movements are surprisingly good - my Tag Heuer broke down and required an overhaul while my randomly branded Chinese watch still works perfectly
I have this same exact question. what about the dial is "poor quality" and why are the hands "as cheap as you can expect"? This dial has some imperfections, but the hands look great, tbh. it's a $500 watch where the majority of construction costs went to the tourbillon. With this in mind, I'd say it's astonishingly good quality
@@itsdavo5810 It is good enough that one article floating on the internet said at Basel 2008, Roger Dubuis accused Seagull copied their dual axis tourbillon. And that was proved to be false subsequently.
Adding on to what I said about Chinese watches and branding The problem with their branding efforts, if you can call it that at all, is that even when they try to come up with a brand, they go with something that in their minds sound "western", probably because they somehow perceive that western sounding brand names are better I mean, just look at some of the brand names they chose: San Martin, Tevise, Lige, Sugess, etc It probably sounds sophisticated in their minds, but they're all just a little random to me Imo, they should be more confident of their own heritage and just use their own brand names They've successfully done so in consumer electrics (Haier) and mobile phones (Xiaomi, Huawei), no reason why they can't do it for mechanical watches
Bit insulting.. The movement is great.. Looks a lot better than Hublot anyways!.. Try to remember..these watches aren't AMAZING..We don't all have 100,000k to waste on a little clock..its a 500 quid technically impressive beauty!
Chinese brands have been playing the haute horology game at the sub $1000 level long enough now to be pretty certain they are quality. to me this just magnifies truly how much people are ripped off by $100K Swiss tourbillions and $50K minute repeaters.
If you're buying a basic movement repackaged with a brand name, yeah, it's a rip off, but a lot of these high end watches what you pay for are tons of swiss man hours to polish each piece individually - that movement has some gnarly looking bits but for 500 sure is nice.
I bought a "GIV 1986" tourbillon watch from china, and I love it. Keeps time well (+ - 1-2 sec/day). Good design, meshmerising to look at the tourbillon movement rotating. The first good thing is: I paid for it (black friday discount) $ 265 (USD) + 0 custom fees + free delivery from Aliexpress; The second good thing is: the chinese factories which produce movements for many swiss companies (the swiss just do the fine tuning and engrave their logos) deserve their pride, and honestly It can't be cheaper than that. Cheers !
It is quite remarkably inexpensive for such a wonderful complication but just how good is the tourbillon? I would ask the manufacturer to improve the design of the watch hands, the dials 5 minute markings, making them embossed rather than printed for an improved finish for an additional $300, then trim down the width of the less than elegant case for another $200 then refine the movement for a further $500 and then we would have quite a respectable China tourbillon. On closer inspection, this tourbillon closely matches the design of the $1500 Era watches so Era may well be getting their watches made in the same warehouse? Beauty is among other things a perfect integration of form and function. You only buy a tourbillon watch to improve the time keeping, so just how accurate is this tourbillon? If it is a movement that is accurate to -45 to +30 per day, then as a tourbillon it is a farce. If it achieves -3 to +3, then China will become a serious rival to Swiss watch making within the next 5 years.
@@basilpeewit3350 I was being serious. I got a lot of compliments when wearing it. People would draw attention to it pretty quickly and say nice watch etc. it does look expensive and luxury.
Maybe that will open people's eyes a bit. Say what you want about finishing or R&D costs, a $100,000 difference between a Royal Oak and a Royal Oak Tourbillon is severely unjustified.
For a watch channel, you’d better watch your history… The world’s oldest watch brand IS Swiss, it’s Blancpain founded in 1735, just a few years after Christiaan Huygens invented a chronometer with a balancier and a spiral in 1675 on the initiative of Louis XIV to replace the pendule of the clock which he himself invented a few years back in 1656 opening the way to marine chronometers and the pocket watch that Blancpain basically invented ; Breguet has left its mark on watchmaking history since 1775, Marie-Antoinette, Napoleon Bonaparte, Tsar Alexander 1st and Winston Churchill, amongst others, used Breguet watches, many other Swiss watchmakers no longer present today were the ones making and selling watches to those who could afford one during the 18th and 19th century, while most of British, French or German watchmakers didn’t even start to make watches before the start of the 19th century and then were copying Swiss watchmakers such as Blancpain. So Swiss watchmakers starting by copying British, German or French, mhhhhh yeah but no
@@nocku I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were. Problem is, servicing this in Europe or the US would cost as much as, or even more than buying a new one.
@@nocku I have a 1 dollar chinese digital watch that is running 10 years for now. I even put it in my fish tank. What battery did they use? right? I never changed that 1 dollar watch's battery and still running. You see? 1 dollar for both watch and battery. And even water resistant. What I am saying is about a 1$ chinese watch.
Don’t think you’ve seen a lot of Rolex movements. The finishing is on another level. Plus the fact there is no display case back on a Rolex. Just look for exemple at 06:50 how bad the finishing is.
We know you want more watches…. click here: linktr.ee/watchfinder
Montiek flying tourb MK1 review next then
Great video 4k work! Salute! It's a very clean design, easy to see & built with care.
Comparing SeaGull to Hublot is a bit insulting towards the Chinese
Especially for those (who blew) their money on a fashion watch like hublot.... lol
Some men of taste right here.
New to the watch community and even I know cool kids don't wear Hublot's
@@tayaricoleman nah, _cool_ kids do wear Hublots. *Smart* kids don't
@@tobywardrop6870 apparently Hublots are appreciate in values with their limited collections. If someone can afford a hublot... it's like you and me buy this $500 knockoff.
Seagull makes good movements. I have a chinese tourbillon and it's worked for years and keeps great time. I feel that watch industry is too exclusive and is all about showing off what others can't have, this is a democratization of a hobby. I'm all for it.
Spot on Sir. 👍👍👍
Well said!
completely agree mate.
You said it brother, I have dozens of watches because I love the art behind them, similar to cars. It’s art in motion and absolutely incredible that it’s something we’ve made.
Now if only China would democratize China.
They even chamfered the edges of the plates. How many 1000+ USD swiss branded ETA automatic non-complicated watches can say the same? And this is 500 US dollars ... and a tourbillon.
Seiko doesn't usually chamfer plates or even polish them at all.
The man has a point
Send link
This movement looks better than any Rolex movement, maybe its not finely finished as well... But they seem to put more effort into making their movement look good compared to Rolex... I guess that's why Rolex is scared to add an exhibition case back and show people their generic looking movements.
@@BabyJesus66 If you think a nicely finished movement is a priority for rolex you have highly missed the point and goal of rolex.
@@BabyJesus66 yeah, "scared" lol
Everybody has ignored what watchfinder has said in his video, despite it being the topic of every video he makes and that is the history of watches, the Swiss too started out as a cheap watch copier of more famous brands from the UK, France and Germany. You have to start somewhere, the alternative is not to start at all.
Even make fake famous British brand pocket watches.
Tianjin has been making watches for quite some time. Don’t be a so ready to dismiss them.
people will also be surprised how the car market will look in 10+ years. With electric car manufacturers from China who don't have to build an own motor anymore (well, there is an electric motor) we will get a lot of cars from China which won't be much worse for much less money. Some complicated mechanical stuff will just be bought from companies like ZF or Bosch and the rest isn't be a problem for them anymore. Chines car manufacturers dominate already the electric car market in China as a whole (while they never had a chance again Toyota/VW and so on with fuel powered cars) and they will flood us as well in some years.
I avoid products from countries that put people in concentration camps because of their ethnicity and religion. Not a high bar to clear.
It's kinda impressive what 100$ can get you somehow. I got an unbranded Steeldive "Willard" with a Seiko movement. Ticking in about +/- 4 secs a day. I know this falls more into the Microbrand category. But the finishing and everything is something to behold. Nothing to special. But marvellous when I think about what I would get for the same price from Seiko.
When Companies start at Luxury Level, it's hard for them to bring the Cost down. But when companies start at the affordable level, it's easy for them to improve quality over time. That company started with affordability in mind, and their affordable watches will become better, and maybe soon, they will bring a $ 2000 watch that can rival Patek, VC or A Lange.
Highly unlikely
Not really. Sea-Gulls Perpetual Calendar Tourbillon Minute Repeater costs USD 150,000... (Sea-Gull is the company that makes these Tourbillon Movements, Sugess only puts it into a cheap case and dial)
@@noahdelarosa4485 Very likely and I am waiting for that to happen. When China produces things seriously, they are good quality and affordable price.
@@michaelr21 Why Sea Gull not producing themselves in cheap case then?? Lol funny. 😂 I am quite sure China can produce most products with comparable quality and in half price. 😂
@@yuu9258 Oh, Sea-Gull produces multiple Tourbillon Watches with a similar Movement, costing USD 2000-6000.
But these have better case quality, better movement quality, better components in the tourbillion movement, better finishing and long guarantee.
I have a Sea-Gull Tourbillon and a Sugess Tourbillon - the Sea-Gull Version is far superior...
Just say it, we have been ripped off by Swiss watch companies for years. I think it’s fantastic. If China can give us a watch at this standard for $500 just give us a high quality reliable simple mechanical watch for a $1000 and win the world over.
I mean, you buy a 100,000 dollar watch partially because it is 100,000 dollars. The 1,000 dollar version would always still he a 1000 dollar watch...
Swiss watches are so overrated! Why spent thousands of dollars on the timepiece in which you can buy way cheaper but almost the same quality. I love Phoibos and Helm. Looking forward to purchasing this Seagull Sugess to add to my small midrange collection.
+1 ✔️👍💯👏
@@Whatsup_Abroad you hit the mark on this. People buy a swiss watch for 100k because of the bragging rights, not because they like the watch. in the world of smartphones and apple watch, an authentic watch is just a status symbol. A 1000 Chinese tourbillon will never sway people from a swiss one, but it gives us - who really love watches a chance to admire the movement and craftsmanship.
Also, just FYI, many swiss, german, french and Japanese watch companies buy Chinese parts, and some have a whole assembly line in China. So don't be so discriminative when you hear "China" in the watch world.
Swiss watch is different, Swiss tourbillon only available in precious metal case, that more costly. Swiss movement and case workmanship is excellent. Don't forget you have to pay for the operation cost of the boutique, China watch not selling in the luxury boutique, so less operation cost. In addition, luxury brand charge customers for "luxury brand tax", you need to pay premium for the name, as in photography, photographers pay big money to buy Leica stuff because of "Leica tax".
I really appreciate that you can also make honest reviews of watches you'd never sell. Your objectivity is commendable. Kudos to you. I bought a similar Chinese Tourbillon for around $450 (same dimensions, it just has a blue dial with some constellations stamped on it). It's not the best watch in the world, but a risk worth taking if you want to be able to look at a Tourbillon up close
Mind sharing the name & where can we buy such watches including the one featured here?
@@sushimshah2896 The brand is called Aesop
Just curious how long you've had it and how well its held up? I'd like to be able to check out a tourbillion in person and add one to my collection but not spending $15,000+. I haven't seen many long term reviews of these.
@@BabyJesus66 had it for 2 years roughly now, I don't use it often but it's keeping decent time, last time I checked it was +9/+11 a day
@@Comalv thanks for the reply
I don't usually watch these for the comedic writing, but I actually laughed out loud at some of these quips. You quietly sold me on this watch while politely ripping it apart.
he says it’s awesome but it’s sucks but wait it actually does not suck that much ah wait it dies😂😂😂😂You watch Ted baldassar reciewing tudor 1926 it’s so confusing but very honest
I've owned one for about a year now. I've only worn it about 6 times, but I put a nice handmade strap on it, and it sits in my watch box next to my Rolexes, Omegas, a Panerai, and a Grand Seiko. It looks right at home. I enjoy wearing it, and staring at it.
Where can we buy such watches including this one m
"Rolexes, Omegas, Panerai, Grand Seiko"...and Sugess
Lol
Nobody cares.
@@KhoiBoa That is an inaccurate statement, as I care, and I suspect the 39 other people who liked this comment do as well. Posts like this baffle me. I never understood trolls.
Very interesting.
This I can get behind. I don't want one, but unlike the kickstarter wannabes that copy others' designs, or lie about their specifications, this one isn't pretending to be something it isn't and that garners it a lot of forgiveness. Even a bit of respect, if I'm honest.
Are u sure? Go to their website and check clones 1:1 of submariner and more… they do copy design of swiss watches
Umm...hate to break it to you, but this is actually made by a company that is faking sea-gull chinese watches. The chinese are now faking chinese products ironically.
Some so called kickstarters even dropship crap from Aliexpress and claim the dropship packaging is because of cutting out the middle man to reduce costs lol
@@QoraxAudio typically, that is true, as Chinese products go through many middle men in standard supply chains
@@2011blueman so should I get the Seagull tourbillon or the sugess’s?
I said: "China". Then you said: "I'm hearing China. Are we saying China?" And then I laughed out loud.
I did the same exact thing haha
Same here 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Seagull is actually a very honorable brand. They have reliable and popular in-house movements.
@@Ya0Yao Honorable? LOL.
Watchfinder skipped to mention that a tourbillon is not merely a luxury movement but extremely difficult to manufacture. It is not just in the finishing. Only a very few manufacturers are capable of making it.
“It’s got more chance of going to the moon than being awarded a Geneva seal,” 🤣
Facts tho I mean Elon would do something dumb and bring like a Nintendo wii too the moon or something
In all honesty, that goes for most watches.... omega has of course, and they'll probably get a Geneve seal either... strange thing that.
The reason I'm subscribed to this channel is for the numerous top notch erudite descriptions spoken here.
The narration alone is worthy of subscription.
Full marks, yet again @WatchFinder.
Geneva seal is given in consideration of 4-5 Parameters . High end Seiko's are tested in consideration of 6 parameters . Geneva seal doesn't mean Shit.
A Russian cosmonaut watching this,, " I am training for the Russian moonshot. I vant that vatch".
Tourbillons are so overrated and honestly overpriced. The big brands want to make you believe as if it was something extraordinary, but as an engineer, I can tell you that neither mechanically nor from a manufacturing standpoint it is a big deal in the 21st century. Same thing with the minute repeaters, that nobody really needs anymore since the invention of lume, they are quite simple mechanisms, a bit odd and quite entertaining, but still the only thing that would justify a higher price is their huge part count. Nothing special there. The fine metallurgy and all the careful manufacturing with great finishes and hand assembly do justify a higher price. but 100 1.000s of €´s? come on. Only buy if you do not know anymore what to do with your money
Of course on a technical level this is peanuts, people are making things at nanometer level. Everything that is being done in the mechanical watch world is still the same as it was decades ago except the process of making it has become better and cheaper. The Japanese pass those savings to the customers and the swiss keep it in their pockets.
Grand Seiko and Credor are to me the only ones worth paying the big bucks for, and only for the artistic and artisanal appeal they have
Mechanical watches in general are overrated by that definition, they don't do anything an Apple Watch won't do, yet here we are watching a video about a watch we never heard of and will probably not buy and not for the usual "it costs as much as my car/house" but just because, there's beauty in them
@@stefangrubesic2708 unfortunately an Apple Watch will be obsolete in a few years as it won’t be supported by Apple due to its OS age. They’re cheaply made in China too yet overpriced.
@@stefangrubesic2708 does your apple watch tick? 👀
Triumph/BSA/Norton laughed at Honda and Suzuki when they first turned up at the TT....
Yeah, you don’t see quality Chinese bikes stealing attention and Grand Seikos are already doing it.
As the Chinese saying goes,
“World Dominance by 2050!
⛓🇨🇳🗡🐲🇨🇳⛓
True, not at this time.
@@rosschops9509...for now
@@JoePetoti They don’t seem to care as much about manufacturing exclusive cars, bikes or watches. I suspect a factor in this is that well-heeled Chinese patronise the usual western brands.
I have had a couple of Chinese tourbillons for a few years now, one from the Shanghai watch company, and one with an earlier Seagull movement. They are accurate, and have been trouble-free. One downside has been that the canon pinion is not in the exact centre of the dial, and the watches present unusual means of dealing with that fact. Both cost significantly more than $500.
I have a similar Sugess tourbillon with enamel dial and it is surprisingly well done for $500. For those who are interested in a tourbillon but can't shell out 5 or 6 figures, these are not bad at all
where did you buy your sugess tourbillon ?
@@RickyRicon2023 aliexpress
@@duncanchiu3659you sell this watch for $500?
Love the timing of the video as well. More precise, on Jun 26th, 1801, Abraham-Louis Breguet was granted a patent for his famous invention - tourbillon.
"50 meter water resistance... although you'd be brave to try it"😭😂😂😂
Do you do it with a $500 Swiss dreswatch.
Congratulations for daring to bring a piece of Chinese horology to the channel. I own one Chinese tourbillons with GMT function and day/night display without any issues since 2019. The tourbillon mystique has lost some luister, until you observe the movement with a loupe, that is. But on the naked eye it is a stunning watch to own, and I am very happy with my purchase.
Can you share the name or link?
Your videos are the CLEANEST, smoothest and probably the best! We appreciate it.
them....
I would love to see what they could do selling a tourbillion watch for $1000, even if 80% of the extra went to finishing processes and tightening up tolerances it would stand as a true competitive watch to Swiss ones.
I’ll buy one, improve the finish and sell it yo you for $1000 if you’d prefer. Not rolex quality, but you don’t own a 2000x microscope anyways. 😂
@@chrisfoster4119 Actually microscopes are things I have.
@@bluedeath996 lol, literally the one in a million person to own a microscope. 😅
@@chrisfoster4119 I’ll sell you a Stuhrling Eclipse Tourbillion 390 that matches exactly what you’re asking for.
It's a misnomer that tourbillion is a difficult and complex movement to manufacture. With photolithography we have been able to build transistors , just 5 nanometres apart ! It's just that the luxury watch market thrives upon exclusivity, not affordability, so they have to keep production low and price high to give people a reason to own analogue watches which can be bested by any 5 dollars quartz watch.
I think there is brilliance to be admired in the creation of something so complex yet so affordable. Sacrifices must be made but finding the balance of exactly what and how much to sacrifice is worthy of acknowledgement.
Like the video said, I might buy one, even if it becomes a paperweight it'll be a beautiful one.
I fully agree with you Aaron
It’s still a Chinese product imitating legendary Swiss watchmaking.
@@vladimirchervenkov6949 There's still no way in hell it costs close to what they charge for a Swiss Tourbillion to manufacture one. Until a Swiss brand, or some other higher quality brand, puts out a somewhat realistically priced tourbillion... which they probably wont ever do because like when Tag put one out for $15k the Swiss watch industry threw a fit, and thought they'd ruin the market and ability to overcharge people what they do... But until that happens there will always be a market for these. Watch enthusiasts aren't always in a position to spend $15k-150k on a watch, that doesn't mean they don't love the art of watchmaking and want to experience a tourbillion for themselves.
@@vladimirchervenkov6949 Tourbillon was invented in france by Breguet... Sea-Gull has made in-house movements, both recreations and original movements for decades. Are they the best? No. Are they pretty impressive? I'd say so.
And besides, Sea-Gull produces a lot of raw components for watches, too. They're one of the largest watch companies on the planet.
@@elgatto3133 Swiss watchmakers are superior to the rest
This entry into the affordable watch space has me smitten! Cheers Watchfinder!
Interlacing these videos with high horology ones seem like the best bet. Keep on trucking!
What does it mean for watchmaking? It means that almost anything is available for far cheaper than what is made in a fetishized perfection factory and for most people that will be more than enough. This particular watch aside, it shows that most of what is prized so highly in watches and other goods- the specs, the perfect finishing, etc- all of that will be rivaled by basic competence and that will be enough for plenty of folks. Those that will buy the VC version of this or the JL will not be buying this- they’re literally paying to have their discernment approved of. But for others, this kind of thing will become more and more numerous and, key here, satisfying ENOUGH to merit purchase.
Guys who "like" watches to impress women who can't tell the difference between a Rolex and an Omega will never touch this piece. People who really appreciate watches for what they are will understand why this is special and cool.
This kind of thing will not satisfy those who want Swiss watches
@@aka_pierre Exactly. I love watches because of the movements... I bought my Omega over Rolex because the Rolex movement looks like a cheap ETA movement and doesn't have the technology that the Omega does. Could I have gotten way more attention with a Rolex and impressed people and paid a similar price? Most likely... not many non watch people know Omega... But I cared more about the watch itself not the name... I'd love to own a Swiss tourbillion but I also won't spend $15k on a Tag watch... Or more on one I like. So the Chinese have given people like me the option to own a tourbillion and experience it first hand. For that, I am grateful to them. Maybe someday they will catch up in quality to the Swiss. Then we'll have another quartz crisis for the Swiss makers. The Chinese are getting close on their replica watches.
@@BabyJesus66 I give Rolex a pass because it's an inflation hedge but otherwise 100% agree!
Doesn’t work as a status symbol.
Real tourbillon + Real enamel dial = Very nice
The Sea-Gull ST1901 is also offered in Sugess watches. Its a column wheel manual chrono. They are well put together and offer elaborate movements for a modest price. Great video!
That movement is actually made with ex-Swiss tooling. Just lookup Venus - Seagull ST19.
I guess the issue this raises for horology is whether complications like a tourbillon really do demand the cost premium traditional Swiss watchmakers charge? The Quartz Crisis was a crisis because for all the claims of Swiss watches being the best timekeeping devices a person could own, it turns out a $30 quartz module was 10x better, and the claim to great timekeeping went out the window. I hope the Swiss and other powers-that-be realize that the Chinese are not going away, and that maybe these complications are not so complicated to produce after all.
@Russ Walker No, you just go and buy a new one.
So having a $500 brick might hurt, but not as much as a $50,000 or more brick. The reliability and robustness of the cheap tourbillon is still a question mark for sure, but something tells me that at the cost it would take to maintain a Swiss made tourbillon over its life, this Chinese tourbillion would probably cost many many times less to replace the entire watch multiple times instead. It's just an interesting "what if" question that won't be answered for decades.
The Swiss are gonna be in TROUBLE 10 years from now... just imagine with tech evolving (3D printing etc..) and what they can do right now already... Trouble!
@Russ Walker All of which applies to your Rolex too. ;)
Rolex are not hand finished either. Production line mass produced watches artificially limited to create demand.
It is to the watch making industry what the first Chinese TV meant to the AV industry.
Ignore or underestimate at the risk of your own peril.
yep, If a country can operate a microprocessor fab, and assemble iPhones- a mechanical watch is not a big deal" They are already used to nanometer tolerances, a 100th of a mm is child's play. Currently 1 in four movements made in the world comes out of Seagull's factories. (Per the 4&20 podcast guys) Seagull makes a good movement- I own several
The thing with TVs is, you don't care about how rare it is, as long features and quality are impressive. This is not the case with luxury watches.
There are also some very rare Sea-Gull Watches - but they are definetly not that cheap. (only fun thing is, rolex watches are not rare and also mass produced [approximately 4 man-hours involed in making one Rolex])
I'm quite surprised about the comment of the cheap looking dial. It's actually an enamel dial. It's not up to the highest level of finishing but for 500 dollar you get a tourbillon watch with enamel dial. I'm not sure what you can expect more. The thing is with these tourbillon movements though that they won't be serviced unless you're happy to pay more money than what the actual watch is worth.
I own the Sugess Sub and it is outstanding watch for the price, far better than my Steinhart, Seiko, and I can even say my Oris all of them which I sold. I was on waiting list for a Tudor bb58, guess what still on it 2 years later, retail games and so on, I simply don't have the desire neither the necessity to play their games or own an item from them anymore.
I live in a post communist country, back in the days people waited in lines to have a chance to purchase bananas in special shops, the Rolex retail games remind of this regime.
The Sugess sub is with 904L steel, water resistant(ISO-6425), NH35A movement which keeps great time, ceramic bezel, sapphire crystal, folding flip lock clasp + one extra rubber, and it came with a tool for the bracelet for $170, please tell me about the inflation and how Rolex is making everything in house.
There are a half dozen Black Bay 58s sitting in the case at my local AD. You must be telling us a story.
@@1974guzzi some retailers do play these games. Rolex especially and now tudor and omega got into it as well. Which kind of sucks.
@@chinaman1 Its a sad fact that there is a Lot of people who fall for this faked scarcity game used to hike prices and and generate and artificial desire for something rare. It always leaves me with a bad taste and I have so far tapped out of any company that starts this shit. But sadly so far they can recoup the loss with this tactic. Its probably going to blow up into their faces at some point, but for now its something we sadly have to live with.
I wonder why people stress about a fucken tudor when breitling makes better watches than them..
Buying the movement separate and a a case in bits, may make it a fun project rather than another skx mod
I'd love to do that, but sadly there's no dials or (specific) hands available
I've seen models on Alibaba with much better looking dials. This one is pretty generic/cheesy looking... but most people well never get a chance to experience a tourbillion because of the artificial mysticism and markup of Swiss tourbillions... These are the only real opportunity for watch lovers who don't have millions in the bank to get to own one. Id choose a different dial for sure.
Agreed. Today I stumbled upon a new micro brand, Roschenbold. They use the same Seagull tourbillon but on much better looking dial, and they are also around 500 USD. Check them out, you might like them
@@aragon1r1 constantin durmont is another such brand.
U can go straight to the sugess website
@@aragon1r1 No, their ST2502 is no tourbillon. The ST8230 costs 10 times more than the ST2502...
Its just a flex from china. Think about it. The prices of tourbillions are so ridiculous that china be like, here ya go, 500 its yours
Thank you Watchfinder for featuring this. These have been available for a while and many choose to ignore it exists or to admit they are actually very good (for the price).
The fact that it is made in China should not matter. Unfortunately, to many it means everything. To these folks, nothing made in China should be even considered real.
I would even go far to say if this was made by some Swiss startup for the same price, these same folks will set off fireworks celebrating a huge breakthrough.
Sad, but what you say is so true; To many, they rather live in blissful ignorance that this watch even exist.
Ignoring the world is no longer flat, I say.
BTW, just bought the same watch on sale for a mere $300. Benefit of living in Asia and not having to go through 'established and trusted' resellers that sell it for almost double the price.
Cheers! Well said!
Where in Asia? I'm in India! Any chance of hooking me up with this?
I don't enjoy supporting a genocidal regime. A country that stands against everything mine does.
This company (1:45) is making watches "by order of the Chinese government".
It is not just "Made in China", I wish it were that simple, but it never is.
Can you share the seller ?
The world is still flat and round, like a watch
Honestly, I think its a pretty good looking watch. The design overall fits, since they went with Breguet style, numerals and hands and even are trying to have the dial appear enamel like... Is fitting for a tourbillion, like an homage to Breguet. The added increased power reserve and decently decorated movement and being hand wound is nice imo.
The only thing I don’t like is the logo font. That looks cheap to me.
@@brandoncufr201 yes, the worst part of the Watch is the logo script. However when you look at the watch it homages the logo script kinda makes sense - as well as being the company's branding widely used elsewhere.
I ended up getting the version with Roman numerals, still don't like the branding font.
You can afford to break it or loose it. Good deal
When low-end Watch UA-cam intersects with high-end Watch UA-cam. Mind explodes!
It’s embarrassing
This is a surprise to many of you all? I am not surprised why the watch prices bloated out of controlled. Luxury brands sells their watches at 99% marked up brand price. You all should know any watches that cost $5,000 above are just made up prices by the brand. The problem is people accepted the price and kept buying. Causing the mark up fake price to bloat even more. Seiko is able to sell most of their Grand Seikos at around $5,000 and that is already including the profits. Those have as good as if not better quality in movement and finishing as any of the swiss brands. These Chinese brands are proof of how bad the market pricing are. This is why I am not ashamed of buying replica watches. Because I know, that those replica watches have closer to the actual realistic price of those luxury brand watches. I have used a few replica watches for a few years now and what do you know, none of them are broken or have any problems. Well in honesty there is 1 with a small problem of the screw down crown got threaded. But that was my own error. And you know what I learned from it? The replica market have as good as the luxury brands after sale services. I sent it back to the seller and they sent it to be fixed like new. Hence why I supported the replica/fake(whatever you wanna call it) market and I hope those market will in the future force those luxury brands fake prices to be reduced to an actually real pricing for it. Or, the Chinese replica makers get good enough in making watches that they can start making their own brands. Like the one in this video.
I‘m sorry, but a blanket statement like ‘any price of a watch that’s more than 5000 dollars is made up by the brand’ is just utter bullshit and proves that you don’t have the slightest clue what the fuck you’re talking about!
Now I’m not denying that brands do that, but there’s more than enough watches that are totally worth the money and are actually fair priced.
Just one example, I don’t remember exactly which model it was, but it was a watch from Lange that went for 35000 bucks new in yellow gold. I’ve read an article on it many years ago in which they explained how the watch is made and it went something like this:
The watch is handmade by a master watch maker who needs 6 months to build one watch. So, let’s assume the guy goes home with 2000 bucks after tax, which means he will cost the company around 3000 bucks a month, so his salary alone over the 6 months is 18000 bucks. Then there’s 19% VAT which is 5700 bucks which brings the total to 23700. Then there’s about 2000 bucks of gold in the watch, which brings the total 25700. Then there’s other bits and pieces, so let’s say the total cost of making the watch is 26000. Then there’s the cost that went into designing the watch and developing the movement from scratch which adds another 2000 or so, so now we’re at 27500. Which means the company makes about 7500 on that one watch and from those 7500 they now pay heating, electricity, water, insurance, secretaries, office costs, taxes, exhibitions, business dinners and flights, executive salaries, advertising and all the other shit that comes with running a factory/company. So, in my opinion the 35000 are a fair price considering what it costs to make the watch and that it is literally a handmade master piece, and there’s countless watches out there that are expensive, but fair priced. Take the million dollar Pateks with a shitload of different complications in one caliber that took a team of engineers 10 years to develop. People in Switzerland earn shitloads of money, they don’t work for peanuts like the Chinese which brings me to my next point, there’s no fucking way you could handmade a tourbillon movement in Switzerland or Germany for 500 bucks because of the labour cost. Why do you think the whole world buys their cheap shit in China? Because no one can produce it for that low of a price in the western world. So again, you know some half truths, but you clearly don’t understand the big picture shit! Time to get back into the classroom and do your homework!
Have fun with your cheap shit replicas that fall apart after a couple of months or get so banged up that you can’t wear them anymore! Another telltale sign that you don’t have a clue. For the money you pay for a few replicas you could get actually a decent watch from Seiko or Orient who both make their own in-house movements are of a much better quality than your cheap shit replicas.
And if you think that big luxury brands will have their prices dictated by producers of cheap shit replicas then you clearly live in la-la land! What you obviously don’t understand is that the people who pay big bucks for the real deal would never buy cheap shit replicas because they’re cheap shit and vice versa people like you who buy cheap shit will never buy the real deal because they can’t afford it!
Wool over the eyes, watch prices are.
This Sugess will show em.
Just brought one at a discount cant wait to see if the gamble pays off.
Bought
No risk no fun 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Why not just get a used vintage Omega Speedmaster in so-so condition? It will set you back a bit more, but hey, It'll last another 100 years or so, and youll have fine Swiss watchmaking on your wrist that's guaranteed to appreciate, not depreciate.
Do you remember those Stauer automatics from China that came out about 15 years ago? You paid $150 for it back then; care to wonder how much the same Stauer in brand new condition will go for nowadays? I myself don't know, because the ones on ebay don't even sell - that's how much Chinese crap like the Stauer depreciates. And like the Stauer, this turbillon looks good...
update?
@@glennbartusch7310 already have a speedy
I had one of these chinese tourbilion from a different brand and as you told so, if you are willing to have a chance to experience a tourbillion for a fraction of a swiss made one, than definetely go for it. Since no one walkes around with a lupe, you will enjoy every second of it.
Great video mate!!!! You guys did it again!
Oh wow, that's an enamel dial!
Chamfered finishing.
Sapphire.
Even without the tourbillon this is a nice watch.
That's what I thought, really looks like an enamel dial... not 100% sure though, because modern plastics are really good at imitating other materials these days.
I was able to buy a vintage Gucci watch from a dealer for half off once because due to his prices being so high, not a single person at the show bought from him. He said, “if no one buys anything by the end of the show I will consider a discount” I walked up at the end of the show and reminded him, and pointed at the watch I wanted. Unfortunately I live in a non watch friendly town and no one in town is willing to work on it. Ever since seeing watch videos on UA-cam I’ve been wanting to teach myself the art so I can simply restore it myself.
Finally a Seagull. Next up, please get your hands on a Frederique Constant perpetual. Or the Slimline Monolithic.
As always.
It's a good day when Watchfinder releases a new video.
That FC monolithic.... I'm having a hard time staying away from it!!
@@ShawnKim111 have you got one sir? I'd love to try one out.
B-bin seagull movements
One of the best and honest reviews on YT. Thanx for sharing.
It just proves that we have been paying over the top for luxury brands for a long time.
Got one yesterday, It is even better than it looks from the UA-cam video. Thanks for recommending it.
And how has it been so far?
I don't mind pay 500 more for a better dial, case and improved finishing on the movement. How many 1000 plus ETA "swiss made" watches can match this?
Oh well, there are AP replica (same 316L steel, same sapphire crystal, same tapisserie dial, same gorgeous bracelet...) with similar tourbillon (without the regulator on sight which isn't nice to see as in this watch) for less than 900$ out there. And I mean real tourbillon, not those atrocious "open heart" ones.
If you’re willing to spend around 1k on one with better dial, check the Waldhoff Vanguard v8. Is a skeleton turbillion, they have one in blue in jomashop and one in black on eBay. Both about $1,050
The issue is there's not a big enough market for these to make that extra investment worth it for the companies. Plus 99% of Chinese brands just order parts and put them together. They don't actually manufacture them. Sugess just buy the movements from seagull
@@Robstrap You know that most sWiSs mAdE watches come to Switzerland in boxes from Southeast Asia and are assembled like a model kit? Sorry not sorry to ruin the illusion but there isn’t a band of Keebler elf like merry men in the Swiss alps making screws and casebacks and sapphire crystals.
GTFO of here and death to the Swiss watch industry.
Here's a fun drinking game: You take a shot every time he says "Tourbillon."
And ... $500.
or $500
Stahp, my liver is being pickled….
I have 4 Seagull branded watches, and one with Xeric’s brand. All mechanical.
My first was purchased in 2009, daydate retrograde. I had since got a dual time dual dial GMT (single movement); and I like Xeric Xeroscope’s movement & dial. It’s a beauty not exactly accurate to adjust, but with a complex movement I managed to learn how to tinker with it.
I’m eying another Seagull ST16 rebadge; The Timex Marlin.
How good are they? If being copied is considered a badge of honour, then Seagull has won it. I have found Seagull copycats in the market.
If you are really looking for a Chinese watch. I recommend Seagull. Reasonable price and decent quality. This Sugess watch uses movement manufactured by Seagull.
I would gladly buy one at 1k if the finish and build quality were on a level with let’s say a 500$ Tissot or Seiko
You sound like you are looking for something to dislike and you are being very sarcastic, but the truth is that you should be congratulating the watch company for being able to sell a tourbillon at this price and for the money it's costing you have to be realistic and know that it is not a hand finished watch but it is just a very honest product and for this reason you should be looking at it in wonder at how they can produce the watch at all at the price. BRAVO for effort 👏👏👍
Bravo copying a French invention from 1795 with cheap labor and CAD manufacturing.
@@sameagle988 Still an impressive technical achievement.
"Older than swiss made Hublot company " Yeah Hublot is like Daniel Wellington in swiss brands so it was perfect point. Sub is yours!⌚❤
Once again. the take-away line for me is... "This is week 2 after they've completed their health and safety training and found a space for their lunch box in the fridge". Priceless humour!
I'm a watch enthusiasts and my opinion is that the "Swiss made" is nothing but a scam there's no way a watch can cost hundreds of thousands if dosen't have any diamonds
I knew I was onto something when I discovered this website. Here I am looking at a floating tourbillon watch for $529 thinkin "am my out of my f****** mind?"
I wish I’d bought all those old Ferraris because they’re worth 4 times what they were just a few years ago.
As said, the big watch makers started as copiers back in the day. Give it another 10, maybe 20 years and you'll be seeing these Chinese brands get a lot neater, tidier, more complex and more expensive. As a daily wearer, this might be a good idea. I mean at £500, I would still be bothered about scratching it, but my heart wouldnt be in my mouth every time I moved like if I took a Rolex to work!
Well said!!
It all depends on who you’re buying a watch for, for you or for your ego. I think it’s a handsome watch, just not my style.
How to make a 10 minute long video without saying anything intersting or meaningful, and yet maintaining commendable cadance of repeating "500 hundred dollars" every 20 seconds.
Hats off, you are trully a master of your craft, sir.
That's kinda why I haven't subbed yet even though I click on the videos and play them without sound. Lol
A Chinese tourbillon has been fairly high on my list for a few years now
Seagull makes some pretty neat watches. They're cheap enough to gamble on, and interesting enough to wear on a semi regular basis.
I had a similar one several years ago, and it ran very well. It was fun to watch the tourbillon, and is the closest I’ll come to having a Swiss-made one. In the end, the cheapness of the dial proved too disappointing and I sold it for the same amount I bought it.
damn that means it held value better then like a tissot lol
As noted, the movement is definitely "not bad". Better dial and hands for a $1000 and in my humble opinion this would be a much better option to the entry level Swiss brands like Frederique constant.
Seagull makes one for about 1200 and I'm seriously considering it. Downside is there's really no customer support in the US.
Seagull also makes a fantastic and affordable vintage chronograph, the Seagull 1963. I have one and simply love it. If you decide to pick one up, I recommend the 38mm with sapphire crystal and display caseback. It's a beauty.
I have one too. A column wheel chronograph for under £200. It's not perfect but it's way better than the Swiss would churn out for under £200. Swatch Sistem51... I'm looking at you.
I’ve been thinking of getting one of those for a while now.
Seagull 1963 has a Seagull ST19 movement, and it is rated average on reliability. Their top rated movements are ST18 and ST21. Give it a try.
@@AtheistOrphan do it. It's totally worth it. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised once it arrives.
That seagess is not seagull mate,
I have this watch
If my memory serves me well, Seagull purchased the watchmaking machines of a defunct Swiss manufacturing between 1959-61. Ever since then, Seagull has produced to spec Swiss invented movements; first for the Chinese Air Force.
HOLY SH*T! Somebody slap me in the face, a Sugess on Watchfinder??? Is it April?
What you neglect to mention is that these companies are heavily subsidised by the govt in order to damage similar businesses in the west. Also costs are heavily reduced by treating workers like slaves with near starvation wages and spending no money at all on waste management or patent infringements.
I don't think that you ever visited China. Get a passport, make a visit and have your world view changed.
Got one it’s actually brilliant for the price!! I got the goldstone one it’s a beautiful watch and can be worn around london without worrying about it being stolen lol.
According the channel's main theme you could be a snob, but you are not, your value-meter is on the correct level. Big respect!
When any item is replicated in a cheap fashion just for the sake of ownership what does that really say about the people that buy one ...
I own a “Germanasian” watch, powered by a Seagull movement, from a brand (Javelle) so obscure that not even all-mighty Google can shed light on it. It’s not a tourbillon, it’s a jumping hour regulator. I’ve had it for about 5 years now, and so far so good. It keeps good time and the movement is very well decorated, much better looking than many entry-level Schweizer watches. I paid around 200 USD for it 😄
It seems Javelle no longer exists?
60 hour power reserve. Jeez.objectively not a bad looker as well
I think it is wonderful that this is being made available to the average person who has been priced out of the luxury watch arena, I will own one of these.
This watch must have done well, it's now selling @ $399 on their direct website and says supplies are low!
I'd take this over any other bloody smart"watch" any day every day, even if it's chinese.
Hear hear!
Not like smart watches aren't made in China anyways...
To be fair I'm sure most if not all smart watches are Chinese as well.
Smart watches are rather beneficial to the luxury watch industry; on the one hand they serve as an introduction to watch wearing for young people and on the other hand they're seriously damaging the fashion watch industry (because smart watches operate in the same price range but offer far more compelling features to young people).
Absolutely. I hate "smart" watches. I don't even call them that ... I call them "wrist computers". Apple doesn't make watches.
Tourbillons are the most overpriced complication in this history of overpriced watches
😂 well said!
Not anymore
absolutely. it's not an engineering marvel. it's a balance mounted on the carrier of an epicyclic gear. for no improvement in accuracy, it's an extra point of failure and a thicker case. until now it's essentially an afterthought for anyone already sparing no expense on making a watch. but it's nice to see the chinese making the effort to skewer its unearned reputation as a signifier of ultimate luxury, while also making it available to anyone who dreamed of owning one since boyhood. the only question is: now how are people going to impress non-watch people with their watch? [trick question. non-watch people will never care about your watch. and gold-diggers are assessing your shoes, not your boy toys]
@@5naxalotl golddiggers are assessing your shoes? Really?
I have a jump hour watch from Geckota (based in Gloucestershire UK), that uses a Seagull TY2709 movement. I have a nice daily use watch with a vintage aesthetic for less than a 10th of what a watch with that complication would usually cost. I just like it because I like it.
"I just like it because I like it."
And this right here, is what it should all be about.
what's wrong with the dial and hands? it's not enamel, but it's not cardboard either, this looks very good bang/buck, that logo though, what a shame.
Yes, I feel the weakest area of Chinese watches is their branding, or lack of it
Their movements are surprisingly good - my Tag Heuer broke down and required an overhaul while my randomly branded Chinese watch still works perfectly
I have this same exact question. what about the dial is "poor quality" and why are the hands "as cheap as you can expect"? This dial has some imperfections, but the hands look great, tbh. it's a $500 watch where the majority of construction costs went to the tourbillon. With this in mind, I'd say it's astonishingly good quality
@@itsdavo5810 It is good enough that one article floating on the internet said at Basel 2008, Roger Dubuis accused Seagull copied their dual axis tourbillon. And that was proved to be false subsequently.
Adding on to what I said about Chinese watches and branding
The problem with their branding efforts, if you can call it that at all, is that even when they try to come up with a brand, they go with something that in their minds sound "western", probably because they somehow perceive that western sounding brand names are better
I mean, just look at some of the brand names they chose: San Martin, Tevise, Lige, Sugess, etc
It probably sounds sophisticated in their minds, but they're all just a little random to me
Imo, they should be more confident of their own heritage and just use their own brand names
They've successfully done so in consumer electrics (Haier) and mobile phones (Xiaomi, Huawei), no reason why they can't do it for mechanical watches
@@YT-jh8co Do you have a link for that
Bit insulting.. The movement is great.. Looks a lot better than Hublot anyways!.. Try to remember..these watches aren't AMAZING..We don't all have 100,000k to waste on a little clock..its a 500 quid technically impressive beauty!
Interesting and thought provoking as always, thanks. Hard to believe the percentage of "Non subscribers "?
Suiss watch industry is exaggerating the prices
It’s Friday THEN, Watchfinder video WHAT. Can’t wait to watch this one!
😂 brilliant vid. You are at once the straight man AND the comic relief. A complicated balancing act that you execute with aplomb.
Chinese brands have been playing the haute horology game at the sub $1000 level long enough now to be pretty certain they are quality. to me this just magnifies truly how much people are ripped off by $100K Swiss tourbillions and $50K minute repeaters.
Yeah honestly over 12k for a watch I really wonder I think orient star is the only mainstream watch company that has a tiny profit margin
If you're buying a basic movement repackaged with a brand name, yeah, it's a rip off, but a lot of these high end watches what you pay for are tons of swiss man hours to polish each piece individually - that movement has some gnarly looking bits but for 500 sure is nice.
I bought a "GIV 1986" tourbillon watch from china, and I love it.
Keeps time well (+ - 1-2 sec/day).
Good design, meshmerising to look at the tourbillon movement rotating.
The first good thing is:
I paid for it (black friday discount) $ 265 (USD) + 0 custom fees + free delivery from Aliexpress;
The second good thing is: the chinese factories which produce movements for many swiss companies (the swiss just do the fine tuning and engrave their logos) deserve their pride, and honestly It can't be cheaper than that. Cheers !
I bought two (not this exact one) and it does what it's supposed to do reliably.
I love his sarcasm and insults, very soothing of I may say. Lolollll
It is quite remarkably inexpensive for such a wonderful complication but just how good is the tourbillon? I would ask the manufacturer to improve the design of the watch hands, the dials 5 minute markings, making them embossed rather than printed for an improved finish for an additional $300, then trim down the width of the less than elegant case for another $200 then refine the movement for a further $500 and then we would have quite a respectable China tourbillon. On closer inspection, this tourbillon closely matches the design of the $1500 Era watches so Era may well be getting their watches made in the same warehouse? Beauty is among other things a perfect integration of form and function. You only buy a tourbillon watch to improve the time keeping, so just how accurate is this tourbillon? If it is a movement that is accurate to -45 to +30 per day, then as a tourbillon it is a farce. If it achieves -3 to +3, then China will become a serious rival to Swiss watch making within the next 5 years.
With all that cost added on top, just buy a seagull tourbillon. It has what you want for the price.
6:41 is where I never laughed harder from a Watchfinder & Co. video. Classic.
I quite enjoy owning my Sugess. It costs less than a nice meal with my wife on anniversary day and it would give me many years of joy.
Haha, so funny!
@@basilpeewit3350 I was being serious. I got a lot of compliments when wearing it. People would draw attention to it pretty quickly and say nice watch etc. it does look expensive and luxury.
@@9feetfrog I have one too, no worries; the fun bit is that it costs less than a nice meal with your wife.
I have one of them 20 years and still running.
Maybe that will open people's eyes a bit. Say what you want about finishing or R&D costs, a $100,000 difference between a Royal Oak and a Royal Oak Tourbillon is severely unjustified.
Severly, extremely and mindblowingly.
For a watch channel, you’d better watch your history…
The world’s oldest watch brand IS Swiss, it’s Blancpain founded in 1735, just a few years after Christiaan Huygens invented a chronometer with a balancier and a spiral in 1675 on the initiative of Louis XIV to replace the pendule of the clock which he himself invented a few years back in 1656 opening the way to marine chronometers and the pocket watch that Blancpain basically invented ; Breguet has left its mark on watchmaking history since 1775, Marie-Antoinette, Napoleon Bonaparte, Tsar Alexander 1st and Winston Churchill, amongst others, used Breguet watches, many other Swiss watchmakers no longer present today were the ones making and selling watches to those who could afford one during the 18th and 19th century, while most of British, French or German watchmakers didn’t even start to make watches before the start of the 19th century and then were copying Swiss watchmakers such as Blancpain. So Swiss watchmakers starting by copying British, German or French, mhhhhh yeah but no
This is dope, might pick one up just to stare at the tourbillon lol
A real revolution in the watch industries , for all the people that want s to have a tourbillon
The movement is still nicer looking and more decorated than Rolex. 😂🤣😂
Might be yes but let's see which one is still running after 30yr.
@@nocku I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were. Problem is, servicing this in Europe or the US would cost as much as, or even more than buying a new one.
@@nocku Both of them would be running, but both will need to be serviced a few times to stay accurate.
@@nocku I have a 1 dollar chinese digital watch that is running 10 years for now. I even put it in my fish tank. What battery did they use? right? I never changed that 1 dollar watch's battery and still running. You see? 1 dollar for both watch and battery. And even water resistant. What I am saying is about a 1$ chinese watch.
Don’t think you’ve seen a lot of Rolex movements. The finishing is on another level. Plus the fact there is no display case back on a Rolex. Just look for exemple at 06:50 how bad the finishing is.