75% of Cyclists Leave this Bike Fitters Clinic with a SHIM (why?)
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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About Neill Stanbury: neillsbikefit....
Many cyclists suffer from a poor pedal stroke, and discomfort on the bike. This can lead to a loss of power through the pedal stroke and also cause injury. Some cyclists spend years trying different methods to fix these issues. They buy a new saddle, change their seat height, try new pedals, such as Speedplay and Shimano, or maybe even buy a new road bike altogether.
However, what has been identified in many of these instances, is that a leg length discrepancy can often be the root cause, yet no action has been taken to resolve the problem. In order to improve a functional leg length difference, a shim has be an ideal solution. However, some people are against the idea, due to a number of factors we’ll discuss in this video today.
#Cycling #bike #fit
I wish that fitting clinic would be close to me, this guy knows what he's talking about i would have 100% confidence in him
@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj why did u say that?... in my experience when you do a job over and over and over, you became really good at it, better than others
Same here...too bad OZ stl closes its border...this is one clinic i definitely wl visit once we can travel again..
I have a 1cm left leg length discrepancy as a result of an accident 30 years ago when I was hit by a car while on a training ride. My fracture of the tibia/fibula was about 10cm above the ankle. I compensate by using a shorter crank arm on the left side (170mm vs 175mm) and a small shim to make up the difference. I think it avoids the torsional effects he mentions. I haven't had issues with knee pain. Although because of mechanical limitations in range of motion from the damage to my lower left leg, I don't get the same power output on the left. Ultimately I'm just happy I can still ride without much, if any, discomfort.
Thanks for sharing John, interesting to hear your experiences. Cam
@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj The 8 likes would speak otherwise. Rather ironically though, no one other than myself decided to do anything involving your comment. Strange...
My grandfather had a pal, Matt, who had a large discrepancy in leg length and wore a built up shoe for walking ( this is back in the 50s, 60s and 70s in Glasgow, Scotland ). It was caused by an industrial accident I believe. I don't know what he did on his bike to cope with it but I do know he was a mad cyclist. My dad told me he was the guy who would fix your puncture in five minutes with the wheel still on the bike.
My legs aren't perfect? Would explain why I didn't get that KOM the other day. Definitely where I lost the 1 second.
how did i not think of this before
Cam, this series with Neill is amazing. Thank you so much!
Excellent video again. After the last one I moved my cleats right back. Felt alot slower but my average cadence increased and I was overall 2mph faster over the router beating some of my times from over 4 years ago. If I could determine if my cleat needed a shim or not I'd do that without a doubt. Finally quality advice from a bikefitter. 👍😁
Leg length discrepancies can be confirmed by X-ray. This is worthwhile, and can help identify location of the difference, femur vs tibia etc. Andy Pruitt has some good documentation on different shim sizes for particular leg length variances. I.e. for example, for an 8mm leg length difference all in the femur he recommends 3mm shim.... I.e. he never shims the full variance,.. only part of it. This really helps for out of saddle efforts. Something to consider.
Thanks for sharing on the thread Greg, interesting to hear. Cam
I have had 3 bike fits, the first person told me I had one leg structurally longer than the other, he dropped my saddle and tried to balance out the discrepancy that way, he saw also my hips were rocking and found that the saddle width was too narrow for my sit bones, but did not touch the cleats. Second bike fitter raised my saddle and did not touch the cleats. Third bike fitter finally put wedges in my cleats and raised my saddle dramatically. Of all the bike fitters, he found the correct saddle height because I have monster power. He also said I had limited mobility in my hips and lumbar area and suggested I see a physical therapist to loosen my tight Psoas muscle and suggest that I work on my weak core. I began working on my mobility and core strength and that has made a huge difference. I believe most cyclists including me because of the position we are on our bikes should always work on a mobility regime off the bike.
Keep 'em coming! Love the bike fit videos!
I am a rower, but am getting into cycling for cross training. There is a lot of crossover between the sports. After swapping into Bont shoes, my leg discrepency in the boat became very pronounced. I have since added a 10mm shim screwed in under my rowing shoe, wow, what a difference!! Finally, I am sitting straight, I could literally feel that one foot was not touching the bottom of the shoe and the seatbones were always aching. I started slowly, starting with 4mm, than 6mm and letting the muscles redevelop into the new position. Each time I increased the shim, it was ahh, this feels so much better. The next time I got in the boat, it felt like the shim wasn't enough. Finally, after the second set of screws, up to 20mm now, it's Eureka!!!
I am now getting into cycling and I'd like to sort which shoes I need and which systems suit shimming up to 10mm. I have a wide forefoot. Is there a place that makes custom shims?
Thanks for sharing Liz, I think Neill would make them if you reached out to him. neillsbikefit.com.au/
I finally added a 2mm shim to my right shoe. WOW! What a difference. Thank you.
Kudos for giving shims a go. I run them due to leg length difference and it solved my hip pain on my shorter leg as the saddle was set to the longer leg. I also use Peter’s cleat adaptors and run my cleats a full 30mm further back than usually possible to basically run a mid-foot setup which resolved my knee issue
Interesting, thanks for sharing mate
Two years ago I had a shim fitted under my right cleat. It helped me balance my left leg with a weaker right leg (and possibly 2mm shorter than the left.) Before this, I was sitting with the nose of the saddle pointing slightly to the left, and developed problems with my sacrum. Now I sit straight and back pain has receded.
Following with interest:
What is your leg length difference vs. the shim he put in..?
I have had two bike fits. First left me with a stagger in my cleat. Second, the fitter took the stagger back to equal/equal. Both were reputable fitters..!
After seeing these vids, I am keen to try a shim in my shorter left leg... to help with a lingering "stiffness" in my lower back (just the right side.)
What your vids have been saying makes sense !.... shorter leg is reaching, longer leg feels bound up. Almost pushing my one foot off on an angle, like it's bunched up.
Gotta love a D.I.Y. bike fit..! Cheers Cam
Good point !
Although just prior to the 2nd fit my right lower back was bugging me...
There also seems to be a contradiction in staggered cleat thinking.
Neil mentioned, the short leg with stagger forward, so it 'reaches' to match the longer.
My 1st fit had my longer leg stagger forward "so it kinda had somewhere to go"
Opposite thinking.
I'll see if Neill can get to this Q Paul! Thanks for asking. Cam
Brilliant video. Excellent discussion on how athletes adapt to overcome their genetic characteristics. The guy is really logical and explains in a very clear way. Love the comments on the section of people that present for bike fit too.
Great stuff guys!! Love this series. More videos on bike fitting in the future? Maybe saddle and handlebars? I’m sure Neil doesn’t want to give away all his bike fitting secrets but I love listening to this stuff
steve hogg complete wedge kit. Worth a look. I bought the heal shims years ago, and they are the only thing that keeps my left foot from going numb.
Thanks for sharing mate. Cam
Different solution: Shimano SPD SL on one side and Look KEO on the other. 4mm difference. If that is not enough then put one cleat just a little bit backwards.
Leg length discrepancies can still be corrected by means of hip and spine adjusted that can be professionally done by a chiropractor
I had 1/4 inch (~6mm) of shim on my right leg, but eventually got it back down to zero (no shims) over the course of about a year.
I believe the length descrepancy was the result of a bad crash on my hip years and years ago, and I foolishly kept training as the injury healed...so my body tried compensating in various ways and I just developed a permanent atrophy that I never really knew about but kind of suspected for years. Shims were able to get me back to almost perfect symmetry.
Interesting to hear that mate, thanks for sharing on the thread. Cam
Loving the content from Neill's fitting and insights!! Thanks for sharing!! When is the in-depth video about the results from the crank length change coming??
About a month I would say Finn! Cam
Love these fit discussions. With respect to the first point regarding the negative comments about shims, it reminds me of the old adage: The plural of anecdote is not data.
I realised I have a (much) shorter leg after my first 100 km: i had a stretching ache in the inside of the right knee. I started with adding an insole and recently added a 5 mm shim with a relatively good sucess. Next step: a real full-scale bike fit and the adjustment of the shim!
I finally had a bike fit today, and the fitter said I didn't have an actual LLD (or at least not a glaring one) but that I dropped my left hip quite a bit. He ended up putting a 6mm shim on that side. I had been having right knee issues of various kinds, so this matches right up to what Neil here was saying. I am hoping this squares me up on the saddle a bit and eventually I can decrease or eliminate the shim on that side.
Love this nerd talk. Learning a lot.
I question why I get muscle cramps from my pinky toe reaching back to mid foot. Only on the right foot.
I wear flats and only mtn bike. My left hip is high causing my right leg to appear shorter. I use extra insoles now, but have used different crankarm lengths in the past with great success.
Chiropractor here: Measurable LLIs are present in ~90% of the general population. The degree to which they cause MSK imbalances and at what threshold, are not widely agreed upon.
Love the video.
Hi Cam, Neil is riding Q rings. I'm interested to hear his reasons for that physiologicaly and your thoughts as a racing cyclist on their use/benefits
Ok, I'll fire the questions his way!
G'day Bevan - there's no magic in the answer to that unfortunately - I threw a set on my bike years ago and liked the feel of them, so stuck with them. I think the sensation for me is better than round rings primarily because I'm a serious heel dropper and so apply all my force quite late in the pedal stroke - perhaps the Q rings smooth out that transition a bit - not sure. All the data suggests no massive physiological benefit from what I can find out.
Best way to feel an unstable foot? Walk up to a going up escalator, as it is moving. Step onto one of the flat steps with about 1/4 of the front of one foot "only" and wait for the step to start raising up. Note the amount of effort it takes to stabilize your foot and keep your upper body steady. Repeat with the step over your arch and the do it flat footed.
I have shims in my left shoe after my bike fitting because after all these years come to find out the left side of my hip sits about 1/2 inch lower than my right side. It helped me out a lot.
Thanks for sharing mate, interesting to hear! Cam
Most bike fitters talk shite. This guy is actually very eloquent and smart. The comment about positive bias is a great point. Look it up in bomber damage in world war 2
Absolutely love your videos. I have an impinged hip and apparently a labral tear as well, these videos have really helped me. Going to a 165mm crank from my 172.5 this week!
Nice one Nick, hope is works out for you 👍
Did it help?
Looking forward to my bike fit when I have enough coin.
Could you do one about flat feet? And the different requirements for short vs.long feet ...esp. short and arched vs. long and flat etc.?
I'll keep that up my sleeve for our next catch up mate! Thanks for posing the Q. Cam
Severe comminuted fractures of my left femur in 1995 after a moto RTA left me with a 6mm leg length discrepancy. An osteotomy in 1996 since corrected much of the bend and fortunately I now suffer no ill affect as my body seems to tolerate this for walking, but cycling many miles per week/year a stack would be worth exploring. (Strava Andy Bonner, Dorset UK)
Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing mate
Hey Cam I'll shout you a coffee if you can get Neil to do his take on a basic bike fit. So many you tubers can't decide on which method (lemond method or heel on pedal etc for height). I appreciate there's too many variables for individuals and a fit in person is only solution but I'd shout you monthly if he could do a series (maybe under your membership) on common mistakes/trouble shooting. It seems everyone does a ballpark fit (GCN etc) but learning how to rectify some common niggles and 'suggestions' would help! Just a thought bud.
Thanks for the suggestion and no need for the bribes! 👍
@@CamNicholls no bribes intended. Great channel, keep up the good work.
It would be interesting to know how many riders in the pro peleton use shims
I agree although Neill talks about that being a secret weapon for them. Many are highly symmetrical which means that can train so hard and for so long. Cam
I'd take whatever the pro peleton does with a sceptical eye. Many are still very traditional, so what they do or use might not be up to the latest info, which you'd expect them to be, because they're pro
NO ONE.
There are 2000 pro world tour riders and 2000 pro riders in the USA. No one shims and wedges bike shoes - NO ONE.
Like your videos on these topics. I have a 11mm shim under my right foot and also ride 150mm cranks. Only ride speed play and have the sim built into my mtb peddles as well.
Interesting, thanks for sharing Grant!
I ended up taking out my 4mm shim from my right foot because I can't control my right foot. Exactly like what the fitter explained. I ended up developing a bad habit. I started pedaling with an excessive heel down, because I can't keep my foot steady on the pedal. Inside my shoe, I feel like my foot is sliding toward the back of my shoe so I have to grip all my toes to pull my foot toward the front shoes (that's the feel I got). It was really tiring my leg and I'm constantly conscious with my right pedaling. (My fitter added a shim to remedy my constant issue of getting saddle sore on my right side only every single ride and an issue of having my right thigh fatigue faster than my left. He said because I have LLD on my right leg). But the effect of having a shim doesn't disappear at all. Almost like, it's messing up my right foot pedaling sensation.
It's been 2 years now that I still can't get my right foot to pedal correctly. I can't feel the pedal or I can't find the sensation of not pedaling with excessive heel down. Because every time I pedal with heel down, my right hip will drop lower and I will have a more severe saddle sore. Because of that I can't finish any workout. Every single ride I have a saddle sore. Now I'm looking at saddle solution that can be adjusted each side like bi-saddle (with adjustable piece) and SQLab ErgoWave 612 Active that allows the wing tip of your saddle moves 7º up and down following your hip. I'm hoping this will help me with my chronic saddle sore. And hopefully, I finally can find the right sensation for my right foot (without making my right thigh fatigue faster than my left). But definitely "no shim." Btw, I got professionally fitted in some university sport medicine with a physiotherapist as a consultant. Maybe 'shim' isn't a solution for me. Because it brings a different problem that ended up aggravating my original problems that I wan't to solve.
sounds like something Neil mentioned in some other videos. cleat position may need to be adjusted after adding the shim and also may want to revisit your seat height. he said cleat too far forward will cause excessive heel down. try a different fitter for a second opinion
@@yicheng1991 The problem is I didn't have that issue when I started to ride. My right foot were pedaling fine. Occasionally I did have some saddle sore. Then, I visited my first fitter to change position so it's a bit more performance based. After that, I started to train a lot and after a year my right side saddle sore started and I noticed that my right thigh fatigue faster when I do workout. I know that your fit can change especially I started as a new cyclist and then started training. That's when I went to this fitter - my 3rd one (my first fitter has quit from the place he used to work) who put a shim in my leg and diagnosed me with LLD. (he confirmed that I did have LLD which my 2nd fitter who I did a saddle pressure mapping fit)
Anyway, thanks for your suggestion, maybe after several months riding with excessive heel down, it messed up my muscle. Maybe physical therapist will help fix that.
G'day mate - this type of story just screams at me that there is something else wrong with the position on top of the leg length issue. Don't mess around buying lots of different saddles - the sore is always on the right which means you're dropping your right hip aggressively and loading the right side of the saddle. You must find someone who can figure out why you're dropping your right hip, and stop it. This could be any positional challenge, from an incorrect seat height to an improper Q-factor to a lack of arch support or anything in between. Which country are you located in, I might be able to recommend someone?
Watching this tells me I really need a bike fit, but with a fitting of this level of expertise. My biggest issue is my feet, left size 11 right foot size 9.
Interesting to hear Simon, to sizes Simon! I'll pose that question to Neill next time we catch up. Cam
Cam Nicholls thanks Cam, I’m new to your channel. Loving the content 👍
Lake shoes do custom sizes where you can order a pair with different sizes.
As Clifton mentions below - Lake and Bont do left/right assymetrical sizing which is nice. You'll need to play with your cleat position a bit to figure out if your central nervous system prefers a SOS (Symmetrical On Shoe) position or a staggered cleat position. If the feet are 2 sizes different congenitally, then it's highly likely you have a significant leg length discrepancy also (shorter leg usually has a shorter foot attached) but not always. Good luck!
Neill Stanbury thanks, is it easy to determine if I have odd length legs?
Just use a different crank length to get around the extra pivot (torque rock) from the shim - that you would then not be needing?
I think this throws the symmetry off, but I'll need to get Neill to respond to this at some point. Cam
@@CamNicholls Yeah, more length across the x plane. Might not work great.
Had a 2mm shim fitted for a functional leg length difference, which fixed some pain I was getting in the left leg. After a couple years I wanted to try without the shim again- 6 months later still no issues so seems the body has adapted. Be interested to know if there is an efficiency advantage to keeping the shim though, hard to test
Worked out myself that I needed a shim. Wasn’t hard to work out really.
Why not just add padding under the inner sole ? ( for all those battling to walk at the mid ride coffee stop, as it is, without shims under the soles😂)
I’m bummed I’m so late! UA-cam didn’t even send me the notification or even list this video on my subscriptions!! I knew it was Wednesday and had to look for it! Come on UA-cam!
Thanks for sharing mate, Neill couldn't see it in his feed either and the video had no views after 5 minutes. I can't remember the last time that has happened, so something went wrong we feel. Appreciate the heads up! Cam
Cam Nicholls newest video sent a notification! Love it!
Hi Cam, I am a subscriber on your channel, can I get more details about the bike fitter(rates, location etc) I am planning to visit him(flying in from Singapore soon to get a proper bike fit). Thanks!!
You'll need to contact him directly. There's a link the description to his website. Good luck!
super helpful, thanks!
So from my previous bike fitters they told I had a leg discrepancy on my left leg, the cause of it was my left hip muscles were overly tight, causing my left leg to be shorter than my right leg. He send me to a sport massage therapist, who focus on my compromised left hip in order to get my left leg to be even with my right leg. I remember my left hip been sore for three days from the first visit, it took a few visits for her to correct the problem. And now she is my go to massage therapist. I try to go and see her every two month as she recommends. She also gave me stretches to do for my hips Before and after riding my bike.
Really interesting to hear that, i suffer from numbness around the ball of just my left foot, never my right.... i broke my right tibia and fibia a couple of years ago and wonder if its perhaps related now.... might pop to a local bike fitter....you are a little far away from me in cloudy London!
Very informative Cam… 🙌🏽
Very cool info. Interesting, I have a close friend who ended up with a shortened leg as a result of a ski accident. They used the leg lengthening operation... 18 months of discomfort and infections... I mean it worked but too nasty... :) Get shims... way easier!
Thanks for sharing, interesting to hear Mark! Cam
What about using a thicker insole?
Thank you so much for all this content! I have a question for Neill that I hope you try and answer and I think that shims are the solution but I don’t know.
I don’t have much flexibility in my left foot joint which makes me rise toe down with my left foot. However, my right foot joint is what I guess is normal and therefore my right foot is more level to the ground at the bottom of the stroke.
When cycling I get pain in the right side of my lower back, saddle discomfort on the left side of the saddle and after my recent bikefit I got outside knee pain on my left knee.
From watching your films I’ve learned that this gives me a functional leg length discrepancy that I guess I should try and “shim away”. Do you agree that shims are the place to start?
I live on the other side of the planet from you and tried a bike fit at my local bike shop without descent results so i am a bit on my own (together with you that is ;)).
With best regards,
Oscar
Would a femoral length discrepancy also be corrected with shims? Or would they only be used to correct tibial differences?
i think most shoes designed with slighty forefoot varus, but i had forefoot valgus, i always experience numb forefoot especially on long climb
Hi,
Really interesting guy. Thanks for sharing
Neill Stanbury is brilliant, wish he was based in the UK
Ditto!
Hey Cam, I have a leg difference of 1.5cm, what percentage of total leg length differences would typically be a good starting point. Also what about MTB shoes, where shims are unpractical to fit as they need to be recessed. Thanks,
I'm going to follow this comment as this closely applies to my 12mm structural leg discrepancy. I do both road and mountain biking as well.
I'll see if I can get @Neill Standbury on the case here.
If it's been properly confirmed with a 3d CT scan or a proper standing leg length xray (image taken whilst your knees were locked into extension) and it's really 15mm, the answer will depend on where the LLD is located. If it's all tibial, start with 10mm and work your way up incrementally towards 15mm by feel. If it's all femoral, start with 3mm and do the same. If it's mixed, you'll want to start around 5mm and slowly increase it. Things will feel better and better as you get close to the ideal height - then at some point when you overshoot you'll start to feel worse and have trouble getting over the top of the stroke on that side, hitching your hip slightly as the knee rises to the top of the stroke. Hopefully you can sense it - most riders can - but some cannot.
Neill Stanbury - Firstly, thanks to both yourself and Cam for the great videos. Unfortunately, my leg difference has only been verified visually (twice by individual doctors) as my pelvis was not horizontal and therefore I initially had lower back pain. I have been riding with 5mm shims, but recently moved to 6mm and also moved my cleats back (approximately 2cm, with the shimmed cleat 1mm further back as mentioned in Steven Hogg‘s homepage). I was uncertain if I should try more shims and see how it feels, also as I ride cyclocross I cannot shim the SPD cleat as it would then sit proud, would a staggered cleat setup be ok? Thanks in advance for any help.
@@CG-vb9di How can you clip in into shimmed MTB cleats in a race setting? I have the hardest getting into shimmed SPD cleats (8 mm) at all - I had to cut longer than standard shims myself to have some success.
How about staggering the cleats laterally with a pedal extender? The longer leg gets functionally shorter with a pedal extender I imagine?
Unsure about that, one for Neill! Cam
I don't understand how it would get functionally shorter. Yes if you had to make some weird compensatory motion then it'd maybe impede the stroke and cause you to not fully extend the knee etc., but that is not desireable. If your hip is descending and knee extending roughly straight then why would you want to take the hip or the knee out of it's preferred range. Also if the knee extenders place to foot wider than would be natural then you would have to toe out and knees out(abduct the hip) to avoid, as an example, the tibia internally rotating independently of the hip, the other way around or both going in a mixture of internal/external rotation and adduction/abduction at suboptimal points to compensate for the foot position. That could hurt your knee very much. Imagine a pepper grinder and your knee is the pepper. That is essentially one thing that could happen if you don't require the stance width. It could also lead to hip pain and a feeling of hip impingement if your hip wants to be in a certain place but now has to internally rotate to a larger degree to get there. Most people don't have a lot of available internal rotation during hip flexion, which is part of why you see some riders with knees flaring out when they've gone too low or too long. It's not a perfect solution by any means just like staggering the cleats might not be the best way to compensate for LLD primarily in the femur as it can cause you to sit skewed and create new compensations. Hope that gives you some idea of what's at work and why it's important to identify where the trouble is actually at and what other limitations there are before picking a solution
@@yannickokpara4861 I'm not sure. I imagine that the tilt of the bike when on the road can compensate for some of the leg length issues as well. I noticed that my bike tilts to the left, to compensate for a right hip drop. Improves with leg shims on the right. So altering the center of mass over the bike laterally and having the bike tilt would also affect the effective length to the pedals. All that stuff about hip alignment doesn't make too much sense when you consider that the same athlete might have very different Q-factors on a road vs mtb setup. But that's just my opinion, no expert here!
Very articulate chap.
If I add a shim to the cleat do I have to raise my saddle???
I have been experiencing a lot of one sided saddle discomfort on the left side. I think it’s because my right hip is a lot more impinged than the left hip. I already dropped my saddle height by a few mill but that didn’t help. Would it be best to shim the right or left shoe in my case? I ordered 2x2mm shims and 1x 1mm shim.
I have a 25mm LLD (left shorter at femur) due to injury. I have 6mm shim and cleat as far forward as it can go. I don’t have any leg pain while riding so let’s hope that is the answer for me.
Rob, if it works then it works mate! I'm the last person who will tell you it's wrong if the solution is working out well for you. The only correct answer to a problem is the one that works.
if you could, would reducing the crank length one side work the same way and solve the rocking torque?
Wonderful video cam
Cheers James
Hi# great content! Can you ask Neill about sloped shims?
Will do.
Seems like foot length discrepancy is not covered much. I have a half a shoe size difference not sure how to adjust for that ?
Great content 👌🏼
Hey Cam! Hey Neill!
I'm working through all bthe videos here. Thanks again!
Question: For SPD-SL there are Shimano Spacers available, but where to find proper spacers for SPD MTB -Cleats? Especially in the European- or German market. Perhaps you prefer a brand you can share here? Thanks!
Too bad he didn't differentiate between short femur vs short tibia. In a short femur wouldn't it make sense to stagger the cleat for when your foot is at 3 o'clock, and also add a shim for the 6 o'clock position.
Fully agree, it's the one single point that sadly is missing in this amazing series
6mm of shim. How did it feel before the shim, any symptoms? You cycle a lot, im sure a weekend warrior wouldn’t notice or get sores, pains etc.
Are all leg length discrepancies to be corrected or just the ones giving actual problems? How often a reassesment is needed in order to verify if the shim has to be changed or removed? Are usually shims to be used permanently?
What about if the hip is dropping because their is uneven saddle contact due to saddle width or too much reach or drop etc. How do you factor out other complications if the rider does not know how stability feels like(so would respond that it's good when really it's just better than what they are used to) or isn't very vocal unless asked?
I'll see if Neill can get to this Q! Thanks for asking. Cam
There are a million reasons a rider may drop one hip, a leg length discrepancy is just one of them, you are very much correct. If the rider has no concept of symmetry or poor body awareness, then I am forced to use my eyes and hands as the sole method of determining optimum symmetry.
Super interesting video. I did a bike fitting last year but not so much happy about the result. I have 15mm difference between my legs, and i have a shim of only 2mm... I was thinking about having a minimum of 5mm... What is your advice about this?
I dont know if I have a leg length discrepancy, but through experimentation, for whatever reason, 5mm shim on the right shoe has alleviated my right it band syndrome, right knee pain, left lower back pain, and left saddle discomfort 🤷♂️ i do have a very slight scoliosis. would my situation be considered a "functional" discrepancy? my left leg is also a little more muscular than my right and my right foot is a few mm shorter than my left 🤷♂️
How would a curfiture of the spine go, I suspect I’d need cleats or cleat / shims more than likely, my running gate when I jog is a bit irregular, not good.
Would it depend on where your shorter. Femur or fibula ?
It can also be muscular imbalance so I don't believe so. Cam
what is neil's thoughts on using angular shims to fix valgus or varus adjustments? I've been trying them to try and fix and outer leg discomfort
Curious what method Neill uses to determine leg length. Thanks for all the info.
He’s over with me on a different channel these days ua-cam.com/video/_pybAyQwGK0/v-deo.html
How does one adjust for differently sized feet? My left foot is about 7mm longer. I tried to put the cleats on staggered by this amount and while my feet feel symmetrical on the pedals, I can feel that I made my right leg shorter with this method. I readjusted the saddle height and when it's just right for the right leg, it's a tad to low for the left leg. Didn't Neil put your cleats on staggered, too?
I would really appreciate some advice here. Thanks alot.
I'm using Shimano SPD MTB Cleats on my bikes. Is there a SHIM-solution for those around?
Does anyone know why at about 10:00 there are towels over the kickr trainers in the backround
What about riding with a different length crank? I occasionally do this when I put my 175 stages power meter crank on my bike with 172.5 cranks. So my left leg uses a longer crank
This can really through off symmetry from what I have been told.
Is cotton better than Lycra?
My big toes are numb after 90km what can I do to fix it ?
I'll see if I can get Neill on the case here. Cam
Is it possible that a rider may use shims on both shoes?.,
How often do you use cleat wedges for varus tilt?
And yet when you talk to some sports physios they say this is complete rubbish. Depending on how you stand at different times one leg can appear longer than the other is their comment
Exactly. I'm not buying what he's selling.
Absolutely right - this is why I measure leg length 4 different ways, in standing and lying postures, to get a rough approximation of the real difference. Even then my measurement error is typically 3mm or so, and sometimes stretches out to more than that in extremely weird cases!
Phew, luckily I'm not selling anything!
hEy CaM I dO hAVe PerFecTLy SyMmeTriCAl LeGS
Wondering how I win the framed Mitchelton Scott jersey 🤔
Wow i think in not 😂 but I'm not sure because i didn't experience a race or long ride ✌️
how much power will i lose ?
Excellent
I always get saddle sores on the left side and sometimes after riding long in aero bars my lower back hurts only in the left position. Ironically, i feel more soreness in my right leg (all the muscles: hams, quads and calf) as compared to the left. Is it the leg length discrepancy?
Could be, I used to get the same.
Those who are interested in Neill's 'method' of bike fitting which are not 'main stream' bike shop bikefitting can check out Steve Hogg's web page 'stevehoggbikefitting.com to find out a bike fitter who share similar bike fitting philosophies and 'methods.' Locations include UK, US, Singapore and Australian capital cities including Steve Hogg himself down in Canberra.
Hey Cam, have you got shims fitted on the same side as you felt the issues/pain?
Wondering if there's a common pattern/factor of which leg exhibits the pain/symptoms (maybe you could ask Neil??)... eg, does the pain show itself on the shorter side 99% of the time?
I never had knee pain, just didn’t feel quite right in my position
Good question Carl - and the answer is there is no clear pattern although most riders develop left sided pain due to our inherent right side neurological bias. This is irrespective of whether they have a shorter left leg or a shorter right leg, or anything else.
first time you sit right in front of your bike...a bike i don't think i was introduce to...humm..strange.
Thats the old C2! Still haven't sold it.
What about foot size length? Having half a size smaller, and shoes are loose what to do? As you wouldn’t want movement in the shoe?
I'll see if Neill can get to this Q Ian! Thanks for asking. Cam
You could find some Lake or Bonts and order different sizes left and right, or if it's just a half size then a thicker sock will almost do the trick on the smaller foot.
Any idea if a heel lift would have the same impact as a mid foot shim?
Given that the heel lift would not be under the cleat/foot interface, it almost certainly wouldn't work ideally. It will also load the forefoot unusually compared to the other side (by tilting the foot forwards) and thus probably induce more assymetry. Never tried it though, so I could be wrong!
Excellent products …
How we get a shim, i have a diagnosed leg length discrepancy
Here you go www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/store/bike-fitting-products/shims-road/
Shimano cleat shim set including 1mm, 2x2mm shims to suit Shimano cleat, plus longer screws... $15
@@CamNicholls thank you