I’m commenting again because people REALLY need to listen to this guy. Too many McKenzie heads want to force/slam people into end range extension WAY too quickly. I’m just super impressed with this guy’s knowledge. I’ve saved this video and show a lot of people I know with low back issues that involve increased pain with bending forward and sitting for long periods. Freaking AWESOME stuff once again man!!
This is not true. A qualified practitioner will not make a blanket recommendations. The back extension is ONE of possible recommendations that could be made based on a clients pain.
I 100% agree. You don’t need EXTREME extension right away (or even at all in some cases). Start just laying on your stomach and then progressing to propping up on your elbows for a couple minutes and alternating between 5-6 times as long as it isn’t real painful. If I do this regularly at the gym (with or without pain), my back pain doesn’t return!! I don’t even need to do full press-ups.
Thanks Christopher. I actually didn't know about the Mackenzie method, but your explanation about over-extension is something I experience often. I also think spinal flexion is used way too much in studio classes unnecessarily.
There's an isotonic yoga movement variously known as the Cat-Cow and Cat-Camel. This is, in my opinion, the most effective exercise to eradicate spinal pain. I would, however, recommend keeping the head relatively still: the flexion and hyperextension of the head integral to the original yoga movement risk acute neck injury. It's also worth including static brachiation - that is, simply hanging from a secure, high bar for a minute or so several times a day. This exercise - natural to all primates - realigns all limbs and allows gravity to gently elongate the spine, with concomitant intervertebral disc reshaping.
Amazing explanation on the limitations of the McKenzie method! Just started the exercises and I have doubts. Thank you so much! It all makes sense now.
Thank you. I have a Large L5-S1 disc Herniation. Every physio I have been too has told me to do the mack method. I ALWAYS woke up the next day worse. My sciatica was pissed. Whenever I avoided it. pain decreased. Saw another Physio last night. same thing Mack method again. Woke up today with chronic sciatica pain .. when all week it was barley there. Chiro told me to avoid it. Just focus on pelvic tils, one knee to chest, bridges and trunk rotation. I have lost all hope this last month after seeing 4 physios. A part of me only wants to stick with my chiro now. all i ever wanted was a treatment plan for workouts. I am 27, 125 pounds, I dont smoke and I eat healthy. I want to avoid surgery at ALL costs.
Think of it like a framework of information about what works for you and what doesn’t. Good information is out there it just takes time to find it. Stick with your Chiro and keep learn about how your low back pain/rehab evolves
Interesting, I have found that my L5S1 herniation is also getting worse with the Mach method. I'm finding that the pain tracks down the nerve I stead of centralising. I I've opted for Osteo intervention while I wait for NHS Physio to resume after my MRI result. He has suggested I should stop the cobra, and knee hug instead. It's so confusing as there is alot of conflicting advice out there. I'm going to try the alternative Mach method to see if this calms my sciatica down again.
@@ChristopherHoleTraining thank you!!! I really appreciate your videos. I did all core workouts yesterday.. for herniation. Dead bug, dog bird, swimmers, etc etc. i woke up today with little to not Sciatica ! I think that is a good sign to work on strengthening ❤️
@@rooff8978 my pain does get worse with the mack method .. the nerve pain moves down my leg.. i notice it more the next day. I would avoid surgery and exhaust every other option first. ❤️ i will let you know how i progress.
Mckenzie method works with Directional preference and centralization. Every patient should be assessed in the clinic to find out if the given exercise produces these phenomena. Than in one or two days there should be a phone call or at least the patient should be given a contact to call the physiotherapist if there is any problem with the execise present. Doing press ups, just because you have LBP is not Mckenzie method.
Wooow Same here once when I started to get the back pain my orthopedic said just do mack method and it was good and since I have no pain shooting in my legs only tingling in the morning .. however now I found Mack is hurting me more and make it worse and extension is Hurting . This video is great 👍
I am lucky to use a teeter inversion table, lucky because it is safe to use with my condition, sadly people with high bp its use is contraindicated. I use both Mckenzie and McGill exercises to comp,complement this. You. Video was most enlightening, well done
I'm glad this video popped up in my search. I hurt my lower back a week ago doing something stupid (lifting a heavy couch without good form). I have McKenzie's back book and have been doing the exercises but so often I find the pain worse when I finish. So I will try not going as deep into that first stretch with my low back because, as you mentioned, it can make it worse if you've lost inches (I've shrunk about an inch). I'll let you know if I have positive results after doing your method for a few days.
I've only tried this movement a couple of times and found it painful so I didn't go further with it. I'll try your suggestions and see how it goes. The bird dog and psoas stretches are good for me as are side planks. I have a ruptured disc, not herniated, but a rupture. And stenosis. And degenerative disc disease. It's gonna take time to get better but I'm committed to learning what works for my healing journey.
It sounds like you’re in the right head space, recognising it’s a journey. And you’re following sensible steps of eliminating triggers, finding what works and ding patient
Great, though McKenzie's literature literally states to do the extension in progressive stages--and also that you must be completely relaxed or it won't work. I suspect a lot of people don't observe these rules.
It's also useful to know that Mckenzie Method has been designed for Sciatica and not all low back pain is due to Sciatica. The extension posture can also inflame the facet joints due to the extreme position.
It's hard to say specifically without knowing more about your low back pain. If this posture has made your pain worse, stop doing it. If it settles back to a level that was the same as before, you then have to investigate your triggers and minimise them while focusing on postures, position, movements and loads that help your low back. These are if's, but's and maybe's as I don't know your specific low back pain. I hope it helps in some way
When I developed sciatica pain. I started to do the McKenzie method, it worked to get rid of the sciatica issues, bit it left my lower back so sore, it got to where I couldn't stand it. and I was shaking when I tried to do the McKenzie Method. I had to stop during it until my back got better. I don't the McKenzie Method anymore.
Allot with back pain is not just a disc problem. Some yes maybe. The best way is to take pressure of the nerve roots. When people have pain they stop moving deteriorating muscles. If the muscles atrophy the joints freeze and compress joints thereby make disc issues worse. Strengthen your paraspinal muscles. It could be this McKenzie stuff is just activating muscles that are inactive. Most disc bulges etc are posterior so in theory this extension should make it worse. But wtf knows ay!
Thanks a million. These are the modifications that Iv been using and my back starts to get stronger. But when I dorsiflex my foot during movements I can feel it in my upper thoracic and it sets me back and down. Do you have any suggestions sir?
What do you think about decompressing the spine by hanging on a pull-up bar immedietly before doing the first, back extension excersize? Theoretically this would help recapture the disc bulge when doing the extension right?
I can't answer that question as I don't your specific pain triggers. With that said, if the Mckenzie Floppy Push Up is making your pain worse it might be a good idea to stop doing it. The recommendations would be need to be trialled if they don't trigger pain
If you have a bit of a anterior pelvic tilt, would the mckenzies contribute to the lengthening of the abdominal muscles potentially contributing to the APT?
That’s a little more tricky. If you have excessive anterior pelvic tilt, McKenzie EXTENSION (specifically) exercises may not be what you need to do. BTW… McKenzie Method isn’t JUST extension… they have a protocol for low back Flexion as well (as certain conditions/issues get better with repetitive flexion). You MIGHT do better with flexion stretches/exercises like knees to chest, crunches, etc…. But it’s impossible to tell unless someone does a full low back evaluation on you. But typically, whichever direction (flexion OR extension) reduces pain is the direction you want to focus on.
Then McKenzie method isn’t just endrange extension. This is one of the biggest misconceptions about the method. It’s a method of ASSESSMENT and treatment. There are many other movements used within the McKenzie method to assess and treat, and these could be midrange or endrange movements. You are misrepresenting the concepts with your explanations in the video. Just wanted to point this out to you
It's not me misinterpreting the concept, I have a lot of people come to see me who have been prescribed the floppy push up that makes their pain worse. Whoever is prescribing this posture is misinterpreting the concept and the person pain, I'm correcting the problem by giving the individual the confidence to go against a 'Professionals' opinion.
Perhaps you should take the course and see for yourself. Many physios prescribe the end range push up because that’s the extent of their professional knowledge of the force progressions. They are not actually trained in the method. The first extension exercise is literally just laying in prone with your arms by your side. So yes, you are misrepresenting MDT: Mechanical Diagnosis and Therapy also known as McKenzie technique.
Exactly. MDT is a classification system first and foremost - it is used determine the diagnosis category and THEN the best choice of treatment. These videos just reveal the ignorance of the people making them. If the pain is getting worse that is a red light according to MDT so then the force is regressed, changed, or another treatment choice employed.
@@ChristopherHoleTrainingbecause after 23 years in practice I’ve never known a patient to misrepresent or simply not understand the instructions they’ve been given. My goodness.
You can pinch the bulge but it doesn't matter, because you create suction below too, so in a few reps you get it right and let's say you do it for 5-10 days you are pretty much normal again.
That depends if the person has a disc bulge, there are many different types of low back pain that don’t come from a bulging disc. The key is to know that the patient has a bulging disc for it to work. This type of exercise has been shown to not work on disc herniations and this come from a teacher from the McKenzie Institute
@@ChristopherHoleTraining it does work but you have to couple it with other exercises. pressing against a bulge or hernia does nothing bad, it just hurts a lot. it's fine. It can be sucked back and healed. I have been through it without surgery. though I agree each case can be quite different.
You really have no idea about how the McKenzie MDT is done. Certified practitioner or any other that has done the simple basic course of McKenzie would prove you wrong about how and when even going to full extention is applied. I won't bother getting into more details about how and why we will choose a sustain possition or an exercise and how much will we push into end range of the joint, or the starting of pain. So, research a bit more, and not just gogle videos on UA-cam about the "best exercise for lower back pain McKenzei" etc...
Listen to the first 3 second of the video, I say "Is the Mechanzie Method making your low back pain worse?" I'm not saying "it does make your low back pain worse". It will be a perfectly fine method for some people but not all, I've had so many people saying it's making their pain worse. Whether it's improper instruction by the trainer or execution by the client I don't know. But one thing I can say for certain is that a lot of people are contacting me are experiencing more pain after doing this.
@@ChristopherHoleTraining I saw that people already informed you about force progressions and how and MDT therapist would normaly would have treated the patient. The algorithm of McKenzie MDT hardly is wrong... It just the therapist prescribed a yoga cobra exercise and it wasn't an actualy C E R T I F I E D McKenzie therapist. That's why, do your research and maybe buy the Clinicians McKenzie books of Lumbar / Cervical and extremities. Those books will realy just save your life from all the "massage" and "chiro" BS. McKenzie Method is about EDUCATING the patient of how to treat their own pain, just ethic work. Peace and love from Greece!!
How do you know it was a therapist prescribing a Yoga Cobra? Or are you assuming? And how do you know they weren’t trained in the McKenzie Method? Could you also share more about what “all the massage and chiro BS is?
@@ChristopherHoleTraining you can come up higher and straighten your arms. it matters which muscles you release and the complete lower back should be relaxed. The position you demonstrated is quite tense and not opening the L5 area vertebrae downwards enough.
I’m commenting again because people REALLY need to listen to this guy. Too many McKenzie heads want to force/slam people into end range extension WAY too quickly. I’m just super impressed with this guy’s knowledge. I’ve saved this video and show a lot of people I know with low back issues that involve increased pain with bending forward and sitting for long periods. Freaking AWESOME stuff once again man!!
Thanks for your support!
This is not true. A qualified practitioner will not make a blanket recommendations. The back extension is ONE of possible recommendations that could be made based on a clients pain.
I 100% agree. You don’t need EXTREME extension right away (or even at all in some cases). Start just laying on your stomach and then progressing to propping up on your elbows for a couple minutes and alternating between 5-6 times as long as it isn’t real painful. If I do this regularly at the gym (with or without pain), my back pain doesn’t return!! I don’t even need to do full press-ups.
Sounds like you’re on the right track
Thanks Christopher. I actually didn't know about the Mackenzie method, but your explanation about over-extension is something I experience often. I also think spinal flexion is used way too much in studio classes unnecessarily.
Glad it was helpful!
There's an isotonic yoga movement variously known as the Cat-Cow and Cat-Camel. This is, in my opinion, the most effective exercise to eradicate spinal pain. I would, however, recommend keeping the head relatively still: the flexion and hyperextension of the head integral to the original yoga movement risk acute neck injury.
It's also worth including static brachiation - that is, simply hanging from a secure, high bar for a minute or so several times a day. This exercise - natural to all primates - realigns all limbs and allows gravity to gently elongate the spine, with concomitant intervertebral disc reshaping.
Amazing explanation on the limitations of the McKenzie method! Just started the exercises and I have doubts. Thank you so much! It all makes sense now.
You're so welcome!
Thank you. I have a Large L5-S1 disc Herniation. Every physio I have been too has told me to do the mack method. I ALWAYS woke up the next day worse. My sciatica was pissed. Whenever I avoided it. pain decreased. Saw another Physio last night. same thing Mack method again. Woke up today with chronic sciatica pain .. when all week it was barley there. Chiro told me to avoid it. Just focus on pelvic tils, one knee to chest, bridges and trunk rotation.
I have lost all hope this last month after seeing 4 physios. A part of me only wants to stick with my chiro now. all i ever wanted was a treatment plan for workouts. I am 27, 125 pounds, I dont smoke and I eat healthy. I want to avoid surgery at ALL costs.
Think of it like a framework of information about what works for you and what doesn’t. Good information is out there it just takes time to find it. Stick with your Chiro and keep learn about how your low back pain/rehab evolves
Interesting, I have found that my L5S1 herniation is also getting worse with the Mach method. I'm finding that the pain tracks down the nerve I stead of centralising. I I've opted for Osteo intervention while I wait for NHS Physio to resume after my MRI result. He has suggested I should stop the cobra, and knee hug instead. It's so confusing as there is alot of conflicting advice out there. I'm going to try the alternative Mach method to see if this calms my sciatica down again.
@@ChristopherHoleTraining thank you!!! I really appreciate your videos.
I did all core workouts yesterday.. for herniation. Dead bug, dog bird, swimmers, etc etc. i woke up today with little to not Sciatica ! I think that is a good sign to work on strengthening ❤️
@@rooff8978 yes girl! You gotta find what works for you. Avoid cobra at all costs. I would look into a sports medicine chiro !
@@rooff8978 my pain does get worse with the mack method .. the nerve pain moves down my leg.. i notice it more the next day. I would avoid surgery and exhaust every other option first. ❤️ i will let you know how i progress.
Fabulous and detailed explanation of lower back pain, spine structure and alternatives to use.
Thanks, I’m glad it was helpful
Thank you kindly for this detailed explanation. I will put it into practice and see how it goes.
You're welcome
The evidence you present for your opinion is outstanding. Well done
Thanks, I'm glad you found it helpful
Mckenzie method works with Directional preference and centralization. Every patient should be assessed in the clinic to find out if the given exercise produces these phenomena. Than in one or two days there should be a phone call or at least the patient should be given a contact to call the physiotherapist if there is any problem with the execise present. Doing press ups, just because you have LBP is not Mckenzie method.
What if they get all this and after 3 months the pain stays the same or gets progressively worse?
Wooow
Same here once when I started to get the back pain my orthopedic said just do mack method and it was good and since I have no pain shooting in my legs only tingling in the morning .. however now I found Mack is hurting me more and make it worse and extension is Hurting . This video is great 👍
Thanks
I am lucky to use a teeter inversion table, lucky because it is safe to use with my condition, sadly people with high bp its use is contraindicated. I use both Mckenzie and McGill exercises to comp,complement this. You. Video was most enlightening, well done
That's great! and thanks
I'm glad this video popped up in my search. I hurt my lower back a week ago doing something stupid (lifting a heavy couch without good form). I have McKenzie's back book and have been doing the exercises but so often I find the pain worse when I finish. So I will try not going as deep into that first stretch with my low back because, as you mentioned, it can make it worse if you've lost inches (I've shrunk about an inch). I'll let you know if I have positive results after doing your method for a few days.
Sounds like a plan
I've only tried this movement a couple of times and found it painful so I didn't go further with it. I'll try your suggestions and see how it goes. The bird dog and psoas stretches are good for me as are side planks. I have a ruptured disc, not herniated, but a rupture. And stenosis. And degenerative disc disease. It's gonna take time to get better but I'm committed to learning what works for my healing journey.
It sounds like you’re in the right head space, recognising it’s a journey. And you’re following sensible steps of eliminating triggers, finding what works and ding patient
AMEN AND GID BLESS, PRAYING 🙏🏽 🙏🏽 🙏🏽 THAT YOU HEAL CORRECTLY AND QUICKLY AMEN 🙏🏽
Awesome! Thank you! Recently tweaked my back again
Glad it helped!
Another brilliant explanation, thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Thank you help full video
Happy to help
Great, though McKenzie's literature literally states to do the extension in progressive stages--and also that you must be completely relaxed or it won't work. I suspect a lot of people don't observe these rules.
It's also useful to know that Mckenzie Method has been designed for Sciatica and not all low back pain is due to Sciatica. The extension posture can also inflame the facet joints due to the extreme position.
Very good info...
Thanks
If I’ve overdone this floppy pushup and irritated my lower back, what’s your suggestion for relieving the effect of that?
It's hard to say specifically without knowing more about your low back pain. If this posture has made your pain worse, stop doing it. If it settles back to a level that was the same as before, you then have to investigate your triggers and minimise them while focusing on postures, position, movements and loads that help your low back. These are if's, but's and maybe's as I don't know your specific low back pain. I hope it helps in some way
When I developed sciatica pain. I started to do the McKenzie method, it worked to get rid of the sciatica issues, bit it left my lower back so sore, it got to where I couldn't stand it. and I was shaking when I tried to do the McKenzie Method. I had to stop during it until my back got better. I don't the McKenzie Method anymore.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Good job
Thanks to you
Allot with back pain is not just a disc problem. Some yes maybe. The best way is to take pressure of the nerve roots. When people have pain they stop moving deteriorating muscles. If the muscles atrophy the joints freeze and compress joints thereby make disc issues worse. Strengthen your paraspinal muscles. It could be this McKenzie stuff is just activating muscles that are inactive. Most disc bulges etc are posterior so in theory this extension should make it worse. But wtf knows ay!
How can we know from what position disc herniated
Very helpful. Thanks man
Glad it helped
Thanks a million. These are the modifications that Iv been using and my back starts to get stronger.
But when I dorsiflex my foot during movements I can feel it in my upper thoracic and it sets me back and down.
Do you have any suggestions sir?
I'm not sure I fully understand the question
Thank you! Excellent explanation. Found out I’m really weak on one side of bird dog!
Glad it helped!
Can you do this will in pain?
I wouldn't recommend it
What do you think about decompressing the spine by hanging on a pull-up bar immedietly before doing the first, back extension excersize?
Theoretically this would help recapture the disc bulge when doing the extension right?
It depends, in theory it makes sense. However for any individual it’s hard to say without knowing particular pain patterns.
I have à large disc protrusion L4-L5. Is this 3 exercices good for my condition? Thank you
I can't answer that question as I don't your specific pain triggers. With that said, if the Mckenzie Floppy Push Up is making your pain worse it might be a good idea to stop doing it. The recommendations would be need to be trialled if they don't trigger pain
If you have a bit of a anterior pelvic tilt, would the mckenzies contribute to the lengthening of the abdominal muscles potentially contributing to the APT?
That’s a little more tricky. If you have excessive anterior pelvic tilt, McKenzie EXTENSION (specifically) exercises may not be what you need to do. BTW… McKenzie Method isn’t JUST extension… they have a protocol for low back Flexion as well (as certain conditions/issues get better with repetitive flexion).
You MIGHT do better with flexion stretches/exercises like knees to chest, crunches, etc…. But it’s impossible to tell unless someone does a full low back evaluation on you. But typically, whichever direction (flexion OR extension) reduces pain is the direction you want to focus on.
Then McKenzie method isn’t just endrange extension. This is one of the biggest misconceptions about the method. It’s a method of ASSESSMENT and treatment. There are many other movements used within the McKenzie method to assess and treat, and these could be midrange or endrange movements. You are misrepresenting the concepts with your explanations in the video. Just wanted to point this out to you
It's not me misinterpreting the concept, I have a lot of people come to see me who have been prescribed the floppy push up that makes their pain worse. Whoever is prescribing this posture is misinterpreting the concept and the person pain, I'm correcting the problem by giving the individual the confidence to go against a 'Professionals' opinion.
Perhaps you should take the course and see for yourself. Many physios prescribe the end range push up because that’s the extent of their professional knowledge of the force progressions. They are not actually trained in the method. The first extension exercise is literally just laying in prone with your arms by your side. So yes, you are misrepresenting MDT: Mechanical Diagnosis and Therapy also known as McKenzie technique.
Exactly. MDT is a classification system first and foremost - it is used determine the diagnosis category and THEN the best choice of treatment. These videos just reveal the ignorance of the people making them. If the pain is getting worse that is a red light according to MDT so then the force is regressed, changed, or another treatment choice employed.
@@ChristopherHoleTrainingbecause after 23 years in practice I’ve never known a patient to misrepresent or simply not understand the instructions they’ve been given. My goodness.
@@RSAPS I'm not sure how your comment applies to this?
What is ur qualification man
Personal Trainer and Sports Massage Therapist
You can pinch the bulge but it doesn't matter, because you create suction below too, so in a few reps you get it right and let's say you do it for 5-10 days you are pretty much normal again.
That depends if the person has a disc bulge, there are many different types of low back pain that don’t come from a bulging disc. The key is to know that the patient has a bulging disc for it to work. This type of exercise has been shown to not work on disc herniations and this come from a teacher from the McKenzie Institute
@@ChristopherHoleTraining it does work but you have to couple it with other exercises. pressing against a bulge or hernia does nothing bad, it just hurts a lot. it's fine. It can be sucked back and healed. I have been through it without surgery. though I agree each case can be quite different.
those these exercises applied post-surgery? discectomy!!
You really have no idea about how the McKenzie MDT is done.
Certified practitioner or any other that has done the simple basic course of McKenzie would prove you wrong about how and when even going to full extention is applied.
I won't bother getting into more details about how and why we will choose a sustain possition or an exercise and how much will we push into end range of the joint, or the starting of pain.
So, research a bit more, and not just gogle videos on UA-cam about the "best exercise for lower back pain McKenzei" etc...
Listen to the first 3 second of the video, I say "Is the Mechanzie Method making your low back pain worse?"
I'm not saying "it does make your low back pain worse".
It will be a perfectly fine method for some people but not all, I've had so many people saying it's making their pain worse. Whether it's improper instruction by the trainer or execution by the client I don't know. But one thing I can say for certain is that a lot of people are contacting me are experiencing more pain after doing this.
@@ChristopherHoleTraining I saw that people already informed you about force progressions and how and MDT therapist would normaly would have treated the patient.
The algorithm of McKenzie MDT hardly is wrong... It just the therapist prescribed a yoga cobra exercise and it wasn't an actualy C E R T I F I E D McKenzie therapist.
That's why, do your research and maybe buy the Clinicians McKenzie books of Lumbar / Cervical and extremities.
Those books will realy just save your life from all the "massage" and "chiro" BS.
McKenzie Method is about EDUCATING the patient of how to treat their own pain, just ethic work.
Peace and love from Greece!!
How do you know it was a therapist prescribing a Yoga Cobra? Or are you assuming? And how do you know they weren’t trained in the McKenzie Method? Could you also share more about what “all the massage and chiro BS is?
AMEN 🙏🏽 🙏🏽 🙏🏽
But you are doing it wrong when you demonstrate it :D:D:D
Explain?
@@ChristopherHoleTraining you can come up higher and straighten your arms. it matters which muscles you release and the complete lower back should be relaxed. The position you demonstrated is quite tense and not opening the L5 area vertebrae downwards enough.
@@zabtej1645 What about the facet joints as you come higher?