Remo Rototoms: Drumhead Shootout with Black Dots, Pinstripes, and Coated Ambassadors
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2021
- Time for some more Rototom fun.
This time, I'm experimenting mainly with heads. When I bought my Rotos back in the late 1970s (the higher-pitched ones here), they came with Remo CS (Controlled Sound) Clear Black Dot heads. In my previous Rototom video ( • Remo Rototoms ), I used Coated Ambassadors, which have a very nice, clear, resonant sound. Here I'm comparing Black Dots, Coated Ambassadors, and Pinstripes.
0:04 CS Clear Black Dots
1:14 Clear Pinstripes
2:48 Coated Ambassadors
I'm also experimenting with mounting. Back in the 1980s, when I was using Rototoms as my primary rack toms, I mounted them with RIMS suspension mounts. It worked great. With the suspension mounts, you can use standard tom L-arms and mount them just as you would normal toms. I recently bought some RIMS mounts again and once again installed them on my Rototoms. I still love how you can position them more freely with these mounted. Highly recommended...though you lose the rotational tuning of the original track setup.
Also, you'll notice some subtle rattling with the lower-pitched toms in this video. With the RIMS mounts there are more screws and bolts and other pieces of metal that resonate. I'd have to figure out how to fix that in the future.
The verdict on the heads? I still like the Coated Ambassadors for the higher-pitched Rotos, but I have to say, I liked both the Pinstripes and Black Dots overall a bit better. The Black Dots in particular give the heads a bit more tension in the middle, so you can tune the drums medium-to-low-ish without having the head bounce back toward your stick as much when you're playing. As you'll see, I felt like I could whack them harder without the notes getting lost.
...And in fairness, the Coated Ambassadors are older heads. The Black Dots are brand new. And the 10, 12, and 14-inch Pinstripes have only seen a little use. New Coated Ambassadors would have sounded better.
What do you think?
Equipment:
8-, 10-, 12-, 14-inch Remo Roto-Toms
RIMS and RIMS-like suspension mounts
18x14 inch DW maple kick
6.5x14 inch DW nickel-over-brass snare
Zildjian cymbals
Shure SM57; AKG D112; Blue Hummingbird mics
Apogee Element 88 interface
Logic Pro X, Final Cut Pro X
Fujifilm X100T camera
I’m surprised by how much I liked the coated heads. Thanks for doing this!
I agree, the center dot and the coated heads sounded good 👍
Yeah they sound awesome, but so does the black dots.
Yes. Been using clear Pinstripes for a while. Now I want to check out some coated heads.
The black dots sound the most "traditional roto-tom-ish". The coated heads made them sound more concert tom-ish and were the most drastic departure from typical roto-tom sound. Cool video!
Yep, totally agree. And thanks!
As always,I vote for the Black-Dots!!!
They’re classic Rototoms!
Terrific vid and audio! Makes me want to run out and buy roto toms today! Oh and they all sounded great but my favorite (and most familiar sound) were the pinstripes. But I'm an Evans fan 100% so when I get some rotos, I'm going to try the EC2's
They all sound great, but for me, the double-ply pinstripes, hands down...
I really like the coated ambassadors, gonna try those on my rototoms asap
Nice sense of composition by the drummer.
Clear Pinstripes for me.
Black dots sound like bongos, Pinstripes sound like...Rototoms, and Ambassador sounds like Congas. Thanks for the demonstration.
I like them all. Cheers!
coated sounds great on rotos. thank you!
Great demo! But, also your playing is superb!
Aw, thanks, man!
Fun review-I had rotos back in the early 80’s with the clear black dots-I think they still bring out the magic of these crazy things. Very nice playing, as well! Thx.👍
Black dots are MADE for single headed Tom’s & Rototoms especially too! It gocusss the sound.
I like the sound of the Clear Pinstripes. That's how I want to have my Remo Rotos on my kit. In the Philippines, the legendary Jun Regalado used rototoms on some 1970s recordings.
Super sound!
Excelente toaada incredibble🥁☝🏻🤘🏼👍⚡
exactly what i was looking for, thanks!
I use Remo coated Ambassadors on my Rotos. On my tom's I use coated Remo Emperors with coated Remo Vintage Ambassadors on the reso side
Love the coated the Ambassasdors!
This is an awesome demonstration and comparison. I really like the Ambassadors and musical harmonic overtones of the coated heads versus the purer fundamental-heavy sound of the black dots
Thanks! Yes, I especially like the Ambassadors for the smaller, higher-pitched ones.
Sounds more like the old concert toms from the 70's!
Black dots on high Tom’s and a pinstripe or coated on the floor.
That’s what I would do
Love the Black dots, and Pinstripes, such a hard choice
I love it all!
Cool sounds and nice playing. Pinstripes sound a bit better and fuller, to my ear.
Thank you!
Batteted sounds the best that you demonstrated . But, Remo pinstripe Ebony series... sound the best i think on rototoms .
I hold my sticks like that too
Were the black dots a little old? They sounded a little less clear and lively than I remember. Along with Pinstripes, they're my go-to on toms, although I generally choose them for their looks. I even have a clear black dot on my Acrolite snare, and it sounds excellent. The coated Ambassadors sounded fantastic, but it's a damn shame to put coated heads on Roto-Toms. It kills the vibe. The Pinstripes sounded great on the smaller toms, but sounded dead on the larger ones. They'd be an excellent choice if you wanted to sound like you were playing a regular set with a couple of Roto-Toms added on.
I love Pinstripes, but those CS Black Dots are the perfect heads for roto Toms.
tribal sound.. great!
Wow thanks for the review !! I'll definitely get those black dot !!!
Wich is too bad because I prefer the look and functionality of coated... But they don't sound good
They were very popular in the 70's! Nearly every top drummer used them those days
Many are still using them now!! The larger sizes are getting
increasingly hard to find!!!
Coated ambassadors win it for me.
I've been using Evans Hydraulic red
batter heads for my rotos
(14" and 16" rotos as rack toms).
I love the blood-red look of the Evans,
and they sound great on full shell
acoustic power toms, but not so
great on my large rotos.
Last week I bought a set of new
Remo Emperor coated batter heads
to try on my rotos...
...if the coated Emperors don't
work out then I'll certainly try the
Remo clear CS Black Dot
batter heads as they have a nice
wet deep sound when close-mic'ed.
Thanks for this comparison video.
Also, you're an awesome drummer!
Thanks! Yeah, I think the thicker or double-ply-oil-filled heads (like the Evans) make sense for the lower ones. And yes, I agree, the black dots can work well too. Terry Bozzio (one of my heroes) used the black dots on all his Rotos back in the early '80s, and they always sounded great to me, so I know it can work. But for me, it's just a matter of getting the head tuned just right (and hitting it just right) so I get that low, wetness without the crackly head noise.
I also have a 20" pancake drum, and I have the same challenges. I use a Remo Powerstroke 3, which almost works, depending on my tuning and playing.
Interesting vid! I think I like the CS heads the most here and I'd love to see a video with where they're tuned a bit higher. I find rototoms tend to project a little better when they're at a medium-high tuning.
Yeah, I agree, the 8- and 10-inch ones (and the 6-inch one, which I didn’t include here) definitely project better tuned a bit higher. But I always kind of liked the slightly lower, almost 80s-electronic sound of the 12 and 14 when tuned lower (which I didn’t do here). The challenge when tuning low is to get that warm sound without the head being too flabby. So here I just kind of aimed for the middle of the road across all of them.
@@schmargle Fair play! They sound great here either way
Why do we need shells ? These sound pretty good
No depth to the sound. That’s why.
You should hear them with Mesh heads-Makes a great tunable quiet practice set with quiet low volume cymbals.
Great idea!
Coated Ambassadors sounded way better than the rest
Pinstripes!
Actually my favorite is clear single ply
One final thing I like: coated vintage emperors. They have a little fatter tone than ambs. The coated do take the "thin". sound of the traditional down a notch.
Yes, good call. I’ll have to try those Emperors.
I usually buy Remo pinstripe packs for my roto Tom set. But the black dots sound better, I will be switching. The coated heads take away that metallic sound.
What mounts are you using for them? I’ve been looking into alternative mounting techniques for these for a while now and this looks very comfortable, haha.
I’m using RIMS mounts. The advantage: More flexibility in positioning than the track bar system that Rotos typically use. The disadvantage: You lose the ability to tune by spinning the drum. But if you add a nut to the bolt on top of the handle, you can still tune by turning the handle beneath the drum. …Another disadvantage: You have to buy more parts, including the RIMS and the various tom holders.
Got my first rototoms today (6-8-10) with Evans ec2 (apparently like pinstripes that I usually dislike in toms, except floor and snare) but I'd like to try the CS. What would be the differences? And could you please explain how to replace drumheads?
I don't know how to set the tension on the screws...
You should probably be able to detect some differences in sound between the Pinstripes and CS heads in this video: The Pinstripes (which I agree are probably most like the Evans heads) tend to emphasize the fundamental more, so they might sound deeper than the others. But they can also feel a little more mushy when playing them in my opinion. The CS heads should have more overtones and feel a little springier to play, depending on how high you tune them.
Removing the heads just requires a drum key on the rods (screws). When putting the new heads on Rotos, I try to make sure the rods are tightened equally. To do that, I try to have the same amount of rod sticking out of that Roto ring that they are screwed into. It really doesn’t matter how much rod is sticking out as long as all the rods are equal. Once the rods are equally tensioned, you can rotate the drums to tune them up or down if you’re using the traditional Roto stands.
@@schmargle perfect! I thought there was a specific way to put the screws (all the way thru, half way or less). Thank you very much! 🙂
BTW, are the CS louder or quieter than your pinstripes?
@@lovecraftmusic8717 I would say the CS heads are maybe a hair louder than the Pinstripes. In general, Pinstripes are more muted and project a little less. But the tension/tuning of the head can make a difference.
@@schmargle thanks again
Merci ! Très intéressant. Je prépare un kit pour une tournée et je veux adoucir le son des rototoms question de les rapprocher de mes autres toms. Diriez-vous que les Ambassadors offrent le son le plus doux des trois choix ?
Bonjour! Quelles têtes de tambour utilisez-vous pour vos autres toms ? Vous pouvez utiliser le même type pour les Rotos. Je dirais que les Ambassadors « cut through » plus, et ils sonnent mieux lorsqu'ils sont réglés plus haut. Les CS Black Dot et Pinstripes sont plus doux, plus atténués et peuvent être réglés plus bas. Vous pouvez également essayer les Coated Ambassadors aves les « dots » .
Sit in the audience and listen to them! They have no shell (resonator)! They sound like a speck of a sound. In the Studio possibly different but aside from that???A Novelty really!
I agree that for live work they pretty much always need to be mic'd to sound good. But they can sound great coming through a PA. I remember seeing Trilok Gurtu playing with John McLaughlin. Trilok was using a Rototom-like contraption with no shells. But mic'd up, those heads sounded very cool.
Just curious, why did you switch to nylon tip sticks with the pinstripe heads? That sorta ruined your comparison test because nylon tip sticks project a slightly higher pitch than wood tip sticks.
They were all wood tips-I don't use nylon tips. The white ones are Jack DeJohnette sticks. The brown ones are Dave Weckl. They have slightly different tip shapes, and they are balanced slightly differently, but for me, the main difference is just that the DeJohnette sticks are a bit longer. I really can't tell much of a different in sound between the two types of sticks on Rotos, though I can somewhat hear the difference on cymbals. If I remember, I think I played all the heads with both sticks but then probably just edited out some of the playing with each. I do use both sticks on the Ambassadors-and I can't really tell much of a difference.
@@schmargle- I can clearly see Vic Firth on the white sticks, but wasn’t sure about the mahogany colored sticks. The mahogany colored sticks definitely looks like nylon tip, but evidently they aren’t. Thanks for replying!
Why not an ascending roll?
😂Next time!
Coated less boing and more depth if you can call it that with rotos. Great shootout though
Would Evans db One (low volume) drum heads work?
I'm sure you could put them on the Rototoms, and that might be an interesting approach if you wanted to use Rototoms for quiet practicing or triggering. ...I guess you could swap out Rototoms with those heads for regular toms, with traditional heads, whenever you want to practice-without having to change heads on your regular toms.
But from what I can tell, you don't get very much sound out of those Evans heads (which I guess is the point), so I can't imagine they'd really be a substitute for some of the heads here.
I've been a drummer/percussionist for 35+ years and they honestly all sound almost identical.
How you mount the toms？
and how bout Emperor clear
I used RIMS mounts so I had better flexibility for positioning. You lose the ability to spin the toms to tune them, but I never really did that anyway.
I’ve never tried Emperor heads on the Rotos, but I would guess it might sound somewhere between the coated Ambassadors and the Pinstripes…probably closer to the Pinstripes.
Which brand of rims mount… look flexible
@@elelel1987 The two larger ones are used Purecussion RIMS mounts-I found them separately online. (Purecussion is no longer around.) The smaller two are from Drum Factory Direct, but have pretty much the same design as the others.
Ever tired faux calfskin heads on them?
I have not, but I should. I use Fiberskyns on my toms and like the sound.
@@schmargle Aye, I was hoping you might have tried it. I keep looking for a vid of someone who has tried those types of heads on rototoms or concert toms, as I'm curious if it will sound more like frame drums by not having a resonant head.
@@RainMakeR_Workshop OK, Fiberskyns are now on my Rotos. Video coming soon!
@@schmargle Cool. I look forward to seeing if it works. Play some good tribal and folk beats.
@@RainMakeR_Workshop ua-cam.com/video/MB2Sx7BJxKI/v-deo.html
The problem you have here with your set up is you can't turn the Rotos because the carriage bolts are not attached to a rail, etc....
Well, I don’t tune my rotos that way. But you CAN still tune them up or down by winding the handle underneath. It’s not as convenient as the other way, but the positioning limitations of the track were always a bummer for me.
I would have loved to have heard the comparison with less sound production and more of a brutally honest room sound. I think the difference would have been more pronounced when less produced.
Sure, I can do that. Here is a version with just the kick drum mic, two overheads, and minimal effects. For me, though, Rototoms always sound best when they’re close-mic’d and EQ’d well. ua-cam.com/video/9W-iwIXw5Tw/v-deo.html
@@schmargle Wicked - I LOVED the follow up comparison. THANK YOU for posting that. The clarity is very helpful when comparing the different heads!
@@deejaaywalker2314 Great! You're welcome.
Man you hold the sticks way down low.
🤷
Demo remo rototoms 6 8 10 ua-cam.com/users/shorts_htfaHEdCJo?feature=share
The pinstrips kill the tone to much. The black dots sound great. I use pinstripes on my drums but my roto toms I use single ply clear. The coated ones sound really good but I think the black dots sound best.