The Old Gods (Origins of the Green Men)
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- Опубліковано 13 лют 2021
- This video is both a culmination of the Origins of the Green Men series *as well as* a tour de force demonstration of George Martin's hyper-advanced "story-within-a-story" writing technique. You wont find writing like this anywhere else, and you'll wont find this analysis anywhere else.
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Cover image uses "Cernunnos" by Ethically Challenged - Розваги
I wish they could make an adult animated version of the books. Martin's whole vision could be realized in an animated series.
the fact that they keep insisting on overly expensive live action when some smooth 2d animation would do the story so much more justice.
The story of the slaves hanging the entrails of the slavers from the branches of the trees as an offering to the gods always makes me think of the story of Arminius and the Battle of Teutoburg Forest, where the germanic tribes hung some of the dead roman soldiers' entrails from the branches of the trees.
Interesting… That’s the kind of reference that George might know of, absolutely
@@DavidLightbringer Sure, it's a well known and awesome story, and the imagery of the trees with entrails in their branches kind of sticks to the mind.
The romans(according to themselves) feared the deep wild woods, but to the germanic tribes it was their homeland where their gods dwelled. There might be other historic or mythological references to similars traditions, but none I can remember on the top of my head right now.
The trees do have a very important role in germanic and later norse mythology. Tacitus, if I don't misremember, wrote about germanic tribes far to the north keeping sacred ceremonial horses in sacred groves. Used for wagon-pulling ceremonies in honour of a godess Tacitus(if I'm remembering the right guy) called "Nerthus", who could be the sister-twin-wife of Njörd, and the mother of the twins Freyr and Freyja(who also hooks up with each other on at least one time, it's not only a Targaryen thing, but a Vanir thing too, lol).
I think people of Scandinavia made blood sacrifices, even humans by haning them in holy trees long before the vikings. Criminals was exicuted by hanging in gallows oaks even up until 18th-19th centuries.
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 Totally agree with you.
If we are to believe Adam of Bremen who visited the temple of Uppsala in the 11th century, some of the sacrificial practices included that nine males of "every living creature" were offered up for sacrifice. The corpses of the nine males were hung within the grove besides the temple.
He says that the grove is considered extremely sacred to the "heathens", so much that each single tree "is considered to be divine", due to the death of those sacrificed or their rotting corpses hanging there, and that dogs and horses hang within the grove among the corpses of men.
Adam also describes that near the temple stands this massive tree with far-spreading branches, which is evergreen both during summer and winter. At the tree there's a spring where sacrifices are held. According to Adam a custom existed where a man was thrown alive into the spring, and if he failed to return to the surface "the wish of the people would be fulfilled".
And that was just during the very late viking age. The longer back we go the more brutal and often strange(at least in our modern eyes) our forefathers and foremothers rituals become.
The old norse, germanic and indo-european ritual where a special horse was sacrificed and a priestess or the lady of the house/farm treated the dead horses penis as a god and sometimes even had sex with it, comes to mind.
It must have been hard for Daenerys to eat that horses heart, but in light of our own worlds old horse rituals it could have been worse.
@@dirtygiraffe ...or better 😏
I love everything about the weirwood and heart trees. The more we learn, the more mysterious they become. No wonder people started cutting those scary mf down. Imagine a white tree with blood red leaves all year round whispering sh*t to you. Not to mention the face carved into it, staring out at you, through you. I would not want to live with a tree like that in my backyard.
Christianity has conditioned us to fear nature.
Never mind the human heart in conflict with itself, what about the heartTREE in conflict with itself...?
Delicious. The Hart tree in conflict with itself, lol
There is defenetly a fight for control of the magic heart trees -The fire of the gods, the burning bush, the blood drinking shamanic thunder horses!
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 FROZEN faces, FIERY leaves. Im deadset that theres a fiery power entombed in ice somewhere. George uses the word legacy only once in AGOT, in reference to the NAME “Ice“. The implication being the original weapon of the Starks was ice itself. But their original weapon is likely “stuck in a tree somewhere“ holding something or someone fiery. Likely for love. To preserve love. George would do that.
@@lewdogsk8er Interesting!
I feel like its just us in the lecture hall
Appropriate to be discussing heart trees on valentine’s day, and because I can’t think of a good joke to make about that I will leave this bland comment as a humble sacrifice to cruel and fickle algorithm gods. Great work as always, Garth be praised 🍁
you know I've remarked that Stannis' sigil is a hart within a heart, since a hart is a stag, but I failed to point out that Heart trees" are therefore "stag trees," derp
I'm loving the Green Men series! Your videos have really made me look at this series from a whole new perspective, thanks for shedding some much needed light on this stuff!
The only thing I love more than my sun and stars and my gorgeous dragons is nerding out on some deep, ridiculous, absolutely obscure song of ice and fire lore, connections and symbolism. Happy valentine's to you *and yours.
Happy Valentine's Day, LML and fellow mythheads. ❤ 🦌
You too!! May You All be beloved ❤🌬
DA DUMMM (BUM BUM BUM bumbumbummm) DUN DUN DUN DUN DAAAAAAH (bumbumbumbumbummm) doodleedledoodleedle...
I will definitely randomly burst into this song around the house hahaha
that was honestly very good translation!
@@DavidLightbringer so glad you were able to procure the rights to such a classic 💜 also - definitely enjoying the mashup between the live shots and the photos. Not like I didn't pay attention before 😅 but the switch makes me concentrate like we're in a stream.
@@DavidLightbringer years of practice have got me to this point
Praise Garth! And the Algorithm!
I dig the blend of on-camera and pictures!!
it does allow me to make a video much faster, so I might use it more going forward. Thank you!
This is what LML do. Patent Pending 2018 (2017?)
Me too! It’s really immersive :)
Even better when you’re smokin a bowl while watching, ngl!
Yep this is the format
@@DavidLightbringer Hell yeah, I hope you do many more like this because you have so many interesting insights in your streams that would make for very interesting videos like this one. I truly, thoroughly enjoyed your scripted Great Empire of the Dawn videos. It peaked my curiosity intensely, what writer wouldn't be happy with that result lol. You're theories are a hell of a lot of fun but lets be honest, live streaming GoT theory crafting isn't as entertaining as presenting a well thought out theory, observation, prediction, etc.
The livestreams have their place, but I do prefer the pre-recorded presentation. It's all good, dude.
tell me what you think of the mixed on-camera / pictures format here, it enables me to work a bit faster.
@@DavidLightbringer Well, I mean the primary difference is how often we get to see those sweet horns, right?
I'm glad to read that this production is faster, because it seems like you're enjoying the transition from narrator to actor. Your sense of humor always shines through your scripts, and by viewing the joke-teller, your audience can be more immersed in that, as well as anything better informed with body-language.
I've seen you do a split-screen method during your more recent livestreams, but I think recording this and taking your audience through the full-screen images is a good stylistic choice. Your standing still in front of the camera isn't as crucial to the discussed material as the pictures are (as an imagination aide).
I think you've got the best of both worlds, dude. Thank you for asking my opinion.
I don't know if anyone's noticed but the word "arbor" is Latin for tree. So "White Arbor" is literally white tree. Maybe you mentioned that and I missed it. But there you go :)
Arbor Gold, is golden tree then? Arbor Red, red tree. 🤔
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 Tree red and Tree gold* They are colors that belong to trees.
Like 'mint green'.
Quicky theory: Hammer of the waters was to cut off Azor Ahai from the Weirwood net because weirwoods are connected through their roots, the Shade of the Evening trees are just Weirwoods cut off from the main network
Love that theory! Kind of like a fishgarth!!
Every confirmed CotF we've see so far lives underground, and the reach of Children and other seemingly related species suggests a near-if-not-totally global network of tunnels connecting them.
Of course, the moon meteors would have almost certainly caused massive cave-ins, so the global network likely no longer exists. So you are probably onto something.
The next question is: what is the relationship between the disconnected soul-tree networks? Are they opposed to one another like the Maw hives in GRRM's short story Sandkings? Or do they cooperate, despite being separate? Or is cooperation between separate hives impossible, like among the Fyndii in his Thousand Worlds stories (see the backpage index of "Dying of the Light" for how this works)?
@@alexandergangaware429 I'm pretty sure the blueshades and weirwoods are incompatible. Like Humans and Ibbenese/Neanderthals: Sibling species with minor but key differences. Blue shade sap can open the mind on its own, without further involvement from the trees, whereas the Weirwoods are pretty much Eywa from Avatar and the Children its Na'vi.
Look up Pando the ashen tree. Very believable.
The mystery guest readers are always delightful. Good job LmL.
LmL could have stretched the video out for hours if he let TreeBeard actually do the intro!
"I heard you were Tolkin' about trees" ooh Treebeard with the puns 🤣
unintentional but beautiful
Ugh been up 29 hours crying about love and this day of love. I needed this fr fr ❤️
awwww sorry you're feeling the sads... but yes here's a bit of heart tree for your heart ❤️
That sucks! Well, take care and we are here in the Starry Host if you want to talk.
For me, on and off camera is much better than 100% pics. It feels more interactive.
+ livestreams are the best, it's always a fun time revisiting them.
As usual, nice work 👌🏻
Happy Valentine’s Day LML
That heart tree description at around 24:00 sounds a lot to me like a bloated, possibly drowned corpse.
Oh the white harbor one? For sure
Yep, Ned and Bobby B really have an intimate bromance.
Just rewatched Monty Python and The Holy Grail. At the end of the movie I yell “Lucifer means Lightbringer! I love that guy even more now, every video has a Monty Python reference.” 👌🏻❤️
They are so deeply ingrained into my brain that I could probably never not make the references
I was on the fence about subscribing to another fantasy channel, but after finding yours a few days ago I subscribed in a heartbeat. I love seeing someone with a keen understanding of world history and culture as well as a deep respect for George’s source material analyze this amazing hub of fantasy and adventure we call ASOIAF. Best wishes and I wish you much success!!!
ah well thanks very much and please enjoy the back catalog, should keep you buys for a hot second :)
LmL I think you’re so good at this! Love your videos so much.
One thing that I suspect is under-appreciated, is how well you pair the visuals with your scripts! You always find super cool art to match the topic and keep us viewers engaged
Thank you! That’s partially due to my ADD, I can’t get by with a picture that doesn’t exactly match exactly what I’m talking about, So I have to seek out the perfect picture no matter how long it takes
Slightly unrelated but I noticed a line in the Wayward Bride(?) when Asha thinks "the trees must hate us all, deep in their wooden hearts". It made me chuckle knowingly.
ah yes and what kind of trees have hearts? this chapter is just crammed with tree people ideas
So what I wanna know is how George got the idea to write this way, cos you're absolutely right, no one else does.
This is the best Valentine's Day gift ever!
all of my horny love, from the bottom of my heart tree
You’re videos are really on a higher plane of existence dude! Love your content!! Thank you so much!!
This rewatch hit home even 2 years later!
Your analysis is unparralled and you deserve way more views and subscribers. I don't know if I would have ever picked up on how deep the symbolism goes in the ASOIAF books without your insight!
I'm enjoying this style and if you find that it helps you produce these vids quicker without sacrificing quality then I for one say keep at it.
Can’t wait to watch this one.
I really really love your content David, you have great insight, great passion, and charisma. Thank you.
Hello from Canada🇨🇦LML🙋🏼♀️
I’m a little bit behind streaming all your videos but I can confirm you that I totally appreciate each and every one of them! 👍👏🏻👏🏻😍Excellent work, Love 💕 your channel even if I don’t have any questions to ask, I’m a Fan! Thanks for this video🧝♀️🐉💕
You know I don't even care if your ideas are wrong I really diggem
that's the spirit
@@DavidLightbringer hell yeah man keep it up. Always love what you put out. 4:20 for life!
Love love love your videos, David! Thank you! You’re the best!
You are so welcome and thank you!
This is the one ive been waiting for! Lets gooooooo
I enjoy the blend of video and image/show scenes!
Happy Valentine's Day, LmL.
I love all the green man videos I know they haven't done as well as some of your other videos so hopefully this comment helps push it futher. Praise Garth!
So glad that you provide some citation for the art, love that Forest of the Druids
yeah that one is killer, I used it a bunch in the Leng video as well. So glad that art is out there or it would be hard to make videos about this very obscure ASOIAF lore!
Great! I missed that format so much :)
I got to say, I love your videos and how deep you go into the known world.
Thank You! Well crafted and well researched as always!
Kick-ass video, dude. Loved the details
Cthulhu fhtagn!- Oh, wait. Wrong old gods.
or are they...
@@DavidLightbringer 🤔🤔🤔
The drowned old one.
So glad I found this channel. Such depth of lore and enough satire to make any bard happy
be welcome
I love your videos! I especially love the green men theories. Thank you for all the research you do.
This is so cool, the pics, the stories- it reminds me of the stories about the folk of the woods (Nisser/Children of the Forest) from my childhood- thank you LmL
🤘 : )
LmL uploaded a video at 4:20 PM?
Alright, I get it. I *have* to smoke now, jeez...
Stuffing an onion in Davos' mouth implies being gagged, as in silenced. I know you've talked about the Nissa Nissa as being silenced, and the weirwoods as silent watchers, so this detail just adds to the weirwood stigmata picture.
ah that's a great observation, yes
The music in those line readings is so spooky! I love it
awesome, i made it myself
The Lengii woman is a straight up 10! Haha, all jokes aside, love the video as always.
How incredible would a Lomas Longstrider POV story be? We can only hope!
Ten.... feet that is!
All of the fantasy conflict stemming from the haunted forest puts it into a neat meta context. Being the ultimate greenseer i.e. jumping from consciousness to consciousness gives you equal power to the reader of this 3rd person limited POV form.
ravenous reader likes to make this point, that the readers are the greenseers :)
And it’s Old Nan who instilled our love of stories before we became greenseers
Great content as always!
14:42 made me laugh so hard I once again almost choked on my cereal. This is the third time now David🤣
Zoned out for a second (praise Garth) and when I came back the "harvest feast" image was on the screen and for a second I thought you had a sponsorship from a surprisingly relevant meal kit subscription
Good video:) I love the deep dives into the Norths lore
You're the best! Thanks once again for your continued hard work!
Thank the gods for Lucifer means Lightbringer sweet sweet lore
So if the Green Men species builds in stone (based on the ruins on Leng), could the face caves Arianne finds in the Stormlands be our first evidence of green men in the main story? Seems like they would have had a presence in the stormlands as the children are said to have a heavy presence there, plus the storm kings horned helmets... It also makes me think of the original denizens of Lorath, who are described as taller than men, shorter than giants, killed by (green) sea creatures...
yes yes yes, I have to think so! Not just stone faces, but underground, just like the Old Ones... yes I'm very hopeful.
This video made me very horn-y. Happy Valentine’s Day thanks for the upload :^)
Brilliant !! Very enjoyable to watch... Thankyou !
Wait a second... If the wildlings are stand-ins for the others and the battle at the wall with the wildlings is a stand-in for the battle for the dawn, maybe Melisandre wasn't wrong but confused. Her seeing Stannis winning a great battle with a flaming sword was really her seeing him defeat the wildlings. And now she is seeing Snow because he needs to be the hero for the final/true battle for the dawn.
totally, that's just the sort of mix-ups she has.
I really appreciate the humor with which you draw everything together and back around!
Awww thanks!!
Happy Valentine's Day all. LML thank you for all the amazing content lately.
"Carrion crows and seabirds squabbled over your eyes." Two flying beings from the realms of earth and sea squabble over the windows to the soul in the same way the green god of the earth and the drowned god of the sea squabble over the souls of the dead.
**nods approvingly**
Love ur work LML indepth and entertaining as usual 🤟
Your humor is honestly my favorite part of your videos. Keeps them very refreshing
I’ve always used the humor to help offset the weightier stuff, it seems to work... AND NOW THAT YOU TOLD ME IM FUNNY, watch out
Great stuff!
I like this new format. :)
oh thanks Matthew!
Hold on you mentioned Martin’s “story within a story” writing technique, do you have any videos going into more depth about that? I’m a level 0 noob writer so I would love to hear more about Martin’s writing technique
yeh, the azoh ahai is an i uni8verse myth that people try to play out, thats a story within a story if thats what you mean
Love these videos!!
Yesss! Love me some Old Gods and Green Men!
Love your channel. I would have never noticed all this symbolism, and I take in A TON of ASOIAF content. I don't know of any other channel that picks up on any of this symbolism. If you could start doing more crossover work with other content creators I would love it. School that world on symbology and mythicism!
Rewatching these green men videos for the 10th time. These are so so good.
My hype level is now at its absolute peak for finally seeing the Isle of Faces before the end of the series 😁 xx
LML tying a bunch of his long form podcasts into this one. Sometimes i selfishly yearn for the long form podcast content even if the new content is much more concise and digestible . Those podcasts got me thru a lot of very long days at work lol
On a rewatching binge!
I gotta say, as someone who doesn’t usually have the patience for the live-streams, idk if I like being thrown shade about it in your intro my guy. If I had the patience, I’d tell you as much during a live chat ! Xoxo you beautiful bastard
Heh no I get it, different people intake information differently. For some a scripted read puts them to sleep and they prefer a live discussion.
This comment is a tribute to the great algorithm gods
May they bless this bounty so it may be shared far and wide
By the gods!
just zap it up to them with lightening rods
Ay and this one too knave
Just before Jon kills the revenant, Ghost returns from beyond the Wall with a hand in his mouth. Ghost symbolizes the Weirwoods and the hand is the emblem of House Gardener of which Garth is the founder.
Admittedly, the hand that Ghost brings back is not green like that of the Gardener emblem, but it was a detail that challenged me despite that.
thanks for loving us on valentines day! I was getting real worried
Loved the video
Loved the Ent impersonation by the way.
Smh my head, Treebeard just can't catch a break. He finally learns that hobbits are not in fact Orcs; now he's gotten confused with men being hobbits.
We all look like strange, unleafy short people
Something extremely relevant to you mentioning Odin. This is a quote from the Saga of the Ynglings, specifically mentioning one of the magical feats the more "humanized" version of Odin in this saga was capable of:
"Odin could transform his shape: his body would lie as if dead, or asleep; but then he would be in shape of a fish, or worm, or bird, or beast, and be off in a twinkling to distant lands upon his own or other people's business."
He could quite literally warg lmao
I think this is more like shamanic astral projection in animal form, such as you read about in Castaneda, but yeah it's very similar. Instead of stealing an animal's body you are transforming your own astral body into an animal.
Mmm yes, trees 🌲
I LOVE those glasses!!
I really like your narration and your pictures and captions. but how did you attached your horns at the back of your head?
This was my reward for finishing my paper today and was so worth the wait! Thank you for all the hard work you do
teamwork! great job!
Love the Monty Python music for the intro, disappointed your mirrorshades don't have the fires of hell in them.
Great video as always
I got a question......what is your favorite and least favorite book from the series?
Nice! Got something to ponder while steaming some 🦀. Thank you
Happy Valentine's Day, dear LML!
You too! Will be back with a Jaime stream soon!
the ent was my favorite part holy shit
Your Ent impression is priceless haha
Used to work with a guy who looked like Treebeard, that’s where I developed it
Those trees/weirmen are angry as all heck, not a smiling one among them.
The quote with Jon and Satin is actually from A Storm Of Swords, FYI.
Just so I understand. Currently the old gods(deceased green men) are not in the Weirwood net but instead have manifested into the White Walkers. Azor Ahai hijacked the weirwood net using a ritual that involved killing Nissa Nissa. Also the Night King/Night Queen made babies that were somehow used to help in the creation of the White Walkers. Bran will at some point go to the Isle of Faces and talk to the still living green men to get knowledge on how to deal with the White Walkers by killing them or reinserting them into the Weirwood net. Eventually, Azor Ahai will be destroyed in all forms by burning a Weirwoods and by extension the weirwood net. Any greenseerers in the weirwood net be they human, CotF, Green Men, whoever all will die in the burning on the weirwood net.
cotf cant enter the net can they?
That Treebeard was excellent! hahaha