@@hengliangzhao Absolutely not. Zlatan knew martial arts since he was a teenager. He also lived in a dangerous neighborhood and always fought with others. Stam is a scary and intimidating human being even today, but in a real fight Zlatan would have kicked his ass any time.
Seeing all these beasts at the same time on the pitch, having a go at it hammer and tongs is nostalgic, heartwarming and eye catching. I miss this Generation. Today we see most of them on the dugouts fishing out instructions, far more level headed than they were then. Football is beautiful 😍
He had his moments, especially at Man U. but I would not consider him even the best Dutch defender. He was strong as hell and fearless, but lacked technical skill. Personally I would prefer Frank de Boer or Ronald Koeman over Jaap Stam.
Early 2000 Serie A seasons had the toughest defensive lines. Milan and Juve had human walls like Maldini, Nesta and Stam for Milan and Thuram, Montero and Cannavaro for Juventus. A nowaday striker would stand no chance against those lines. As soon as he try to dive between the defense, he would be definitely crushed.
When Jaap Stam played for Man United I always remember when I was at the match that Me and my friend would sit near the touch line and when Stam would run towards us to keep the ball in play me and my friend would shit ourselves because Stam was a beast of a man.... We used to call him ' The Bull'
I’m a diehard Juve-fan since 94’. I was actually in Milano visiting a friend in 2005 and went to see this game. I mean the atmosphere was amazing, the amount of worldclass players during that time. My God, those days are long gone. Even though juve lost that game, I can’t forget that period in Italian Serie A, when the leauge was number 1.
You're really underestimating Zlatan. He is damn tall, a martial arts expert and grew up in a ghetto where he used to fight very much. In a fight he would clearly dominate. Stam was more aggressive, but Ibra has the advantages.
@@dewirya6684 lol your cleary either an inter fan or havent seen the lukaku clip ibra was pushing lukaku back with his head and neither men showed any sign of fear, infact ibra was laughing at him most of the time so wtf u talking about?
@@dewirya6684 and pretty sure barton called him big nose whilst walking away from him, those are barely fighting words, you are aware both instances you named were filmed right? 🤣
@@mb693 he just talking too much and always show his arrogant way, you didn't know how strong was Lukaku, If he was tough, why didn't he challenge him on duel outside of stadium?? If that Joey Barton he will kill Zlatan and leave his black belt on the floor 😂😂, don't mess with street fighter, taekwondo or even boxing & UFC are useless to fight on the street 😂😂
This is the time where real men graced this beautiful game. Even a kungfu kick is just a yellow card. Now we see all rollers and divers trying for Oscars
Forget the fight.. Simply looking at the glut of superstars in this video just shows what a joy to watch Serie A was back in the day. Sad how the league has lost so much over time...
I doubt a 6'5 expert martial artist like Zlatan would be scared of some big bald dude who has no martial arts experience. Zlatan would demolish Stam in a fight.
@@Ariteo333 pero la calidad si es muy diferente, antes tú ponías un Milán Juventus y habían una cantidad de figuras, ahora no conoce uno no quién son los jugadores, es más la mayoría de las personas te dicen la formación titular de los equipos de esa época y no te dicen de como es la formación en la actualidad.
Legendary Aggresiveness of Mutu who put down Nesta. He once went to a restaurant and beat the waiter...It didnt matter if you were co-national or legend like Nesta here.
Absolutely cap. He literally was the one who grabbed Stam and dragged him away and then wasn't scared of fighting. Zlatan is giant, martial arts expert and grew up in a ghetto where he used to fight very much. You think a guy like this is bluffing?
@@user-hw4uz9xt1land ibrahimovic acknowledged that there was 1 who he actually was afraid of and that was Jaap Stam. Stam was more powerfull at Benchpress and practiced fight sports as well (dutch kickboxing). Don't underestimate Stam in that. Both were beasts and its stupid to say 1 will win over another in a real fight. We just don't know. And they were smart enough to not putt it to the test.
Just as many as today when you have PSG playing against Chelsea or Bayern Munich and talk about that match in the year 2035.... They're not legends though... Football is just a extremely hyped up sport in the media, so elite players are made bigger than they are - Messi probably the only player being worth called a legend.
@@T3rm3nator depends on the position you look and the system that the coach has ... Messi was an offensive midfielder, comint mostly from the wings... Zidane was a center midfielder... If you have a Xavi or Pirlo, you don't need a Zidane.
@Tourist Q This one of the dumbest shit I have ever read on comment section Cause yeah dude lakaku comparable to shevshenko And veratti as legendary as Pirlo And Christian as good as Cannvaro was and them kimpebe and Ramos as good as Nesta and Maldini It’s not like 3 of the defender in this game are top 10 greatest defenders of all times Maldini , Cannvaro and Nesta and Stam was up there as top 15-20 greatest defender ever
As Juve fan I’ll admit two things here first that Milan (2002-2007)one of the greatest teams in football history Literally better than inter that manhandled the best Barca in history in 2010 by a mile too
@@NicolasBouhelier “easily” is not fair, maybe. I love both players but i like Zlatan as a person much more then Stam. Still… i would have bet my money on stam… the mf was really scary 😅😅😅
Willy et scientia - Yeah Onyewu broke one of Zlatans ribs and Zlatan broke Onyewu's nose + Onyewu was a 6ft6 bodybuilder/defender he would destroy Stam and so would Zlatan.
He caught him off guard Zlatan wasn’t strong with juve he was skinny Also That don’t even require strength he probably was off balance but when Stam got to him he didn’t do shit and went the opposite way he couldn’t even put hands on him
The gesture of Jorginho is for the future football fans that will never mention him. 😅 In life, the only way to offer educational teachings is by fighting or by stopping a fight. Something people refuse to understand, including Zlatan.
This was a time when football was played by men. Today's "hardest" player would probably have his face wiping the grass if he squared up to these giants.
Buffon,thuram,cannavaro,nedved,del piero, trezeguet, vieira, ibra, cafu',inzaghi, maldini, stam, nesta, pirlo, seedorf, gattuso, kaka, shevchenko. 4 ballon d'or winners, list of champions goes forever when those 2 teams used to play each other at that time...
wannabe guy hahahahahahahahah wannabe guy? say that to zlatan who couldnt even eat oguchi onyewu haha a non trained footballer that killed zlatan his ribs XDD
When Serie A was Serie A...
All Gangsta
zlatan is bacc
After this season
Serie A is absolute shít
Serie A is best imo.
lbhtdc zz_ go watch cricket
Everyone knew Stam vs Ibrahimovic was so dangerous that even Gattuso tried to stop a fight
I don’t care how much karate Ibra knows, Stan can take a much more blunt blow to his cranium then he. Money is on Stam.
Stam would have won
@@hengliangzhao Absolutely not. Zlatan knew martial arts since he was a teenager. He also lived in a dangerous neighborhood and always fought with others. Stam is a scary and intimidating human being even today, but in a real fight Zlatan would have kicked his ass any time.
@@IamSylar1 Dont forget that Stam was interested in kickboksing till his 16th
Stam was a beast of a man..Zlatan wouldn't have stood any chance against him at all..
Bloody hell; Maldini, Vieira, Nedved, Nesta, Dida, Stam, Trezeguet, Gattuso, Seedoorf, Emerson, Buffon...too many Iv lost count
Certainly don't get them sort anymore. 😔
Mbappe father
Now we got fucking players fighting on snapchat or Instagram
zlatan*
Canavaro
When Gattuso's trying calm you down, you truly must be the from out of this world
Are you 12?
@@richardjones3792 obviously you are 12
@@richardjones3792 cope
Here's a rare moment when we almost got the third world war
Exactly
Germany was missing hahaha
Joe is German here
Cringe
@@richardjones3792 if you don't like what you're seeing , then don't watch it
Easiest job in 2000's
Milans goal keeper
2005 Liverpool: Am I a joke to you?
Jefferson Huang
2007: yes u are
De Gea 2020 : Bet
They are lucky because lindgard did’nt play in serie A
@@doncarloancelotti2256 Liverpool 2005 was such a fluke victory they weren’t even close to being as good as Milan those days
Seeing all these beasts at the same time on the pitch, having a go at it hammer and tongs is nostalgic, heartwarming and eye catching.
I miss this Generation.
Today we see most of them on the dugouts fishing out instructions, far more level headed than they were then.
Football is beautiful 😍
*dishing
Tru talk
Back in time when men were men
Stam is one of the greatest defenders I’ve ever seen.
One of the best of all time, no question.
Maurice Malpas was better.
*Plough*
He had his moments, especially at Man U. but I would not consider him even the best Dutch defender. He was strong as hell and fearless, but lacked technical skill. Personally I would prefer Frank de Boer or Ronald Koeman over Jaap Stam.
@@lucas82 true.J.Stam max level in 80/100
He was at utd for 3 years. They won the league every year and treble under him. Ferguson even says it was a his biggest mistake getting rid of him.
Gattuso, Ibra, Stam and Viera. So many bad boys together on the pitch. Amazing!
Early 2000 Serie A seasons had the toughest defensive lines.
Milan and Juve had human walls like Maldini, Nesta and Stam for Milan and Thuram, Montero and Cannavaro for Juventus.
A nowaday striker would stand no chance against those lines.
As soon as he try to dive between the defense, he would be definitely crushed.
And Ronaldo phenomenon run past them like nothing.
The prime Ronaldo was a real beast. Unstoppable
@@MrAntonio231288 and then he destroyed his knees.
maldini pocketed ronaldo nazario
And Maradona Destroyed greatest defence of prime baresi Maldini rijkaard 😂
When Jaap Stam played for Man United I always remember when I was at the match that Me and my friend would sit near the touch line and when Stam would run towards us to keep the ball in play me and my friend would shit ourselves because Stam was a beast of a man.... We used to call him ' The Bull'
Facking hell. Bloody
Wow, cool bro story
Wow, cool bro story.
Wow, cool bro story
Wow, cool bro story
Geez Zlatan has had fights with so many badass from different generations.
What players!, what teams!, what times... :'(
I’m a diehard Juve-fan since 94’.
I was actually in Milano visiting a friend in 2005 and went to see this game. I mean the atmosphere was amazing, the amount of worldclass players during that time. My God, those days are long gone.
Even though juve lost that game, I can’t forget that period in Italian Serie A, when the leauge was number 1.
Great foreign players partnered with amazing Italian players...
Stam,zlatan,Viera,Gattuso all in the same pitch what a battle royal it could have been
Buenos años de fútbol ..... Eso eran equipos y grandes partidos de champions
O God! Gatusso, Veira, Stam and Ibra on same pitch!!
Stam was beast if a man..Zlatan wouldn't have stand a chance against him at all.
STAM WAS BULL.
Dangerous as hell.
You're really underestimating Zlatan. He is damn tall, a martial arts expert and grew up in a ghetto where he used to fight very much. In a fight he would clearly dominate. Stam was more aggressive, but Ibra has the advantages.
@@user-hw4uz9xt1l I am a big Zlatan fan, but at that time, Stam would have eaten him.
@@flo2677 On the pitch mid-game, probably. In a fight on the pitch, rather not.
Quando Gattuso salvò il mondo dall'apocalisse.
OMZ
When Gattuso saved the world
Sinceramente Gattuso non aveva voglia di prenderli a sberle a tutti e due, quindi a preferito separarli 😅😂
@@alessiocusano7670 con contorno di bestemmie in dialetto calabrese
Ibra, Stam, Vieira, Gattuso in one pitch
Stam looks like those prison gangsters 🤨
best thing is gatusso is not reacting....because he's fastest in fifa when fight happens
Look at the young zlatan , did’nt even scared of stam ..
He does taekwondo and would of wiped stam out even at that age, why would he be scared of a guy that just acts tough in football games
@@mb693 but but afraid to fight Lukaku and Joey Barton in old age, Zlatan only talk too much 😂
@@dewirya6684 lol your cleary either an inter fan or havent seen the lukaku clip ibra was pushing lukaku back with his head and neither men showed any sign of fear, infact ibra was laughing at him most of the time so wtf u talking about?
@@dewirya6684 and pretty sure barton called him big nose whilst walking away from him, those are barely fighting words, you are aware both instances you named were filmed right? 🤣
@@mb693 he just talking too much and always show his arrogant way, you didn't know how strong was Lukaku, If he was tough, why didn't he challenge him on duel outside of stadium?? If that Joey Barton he will kill Zlatan and leave his black belt on the floor 😂😂, don't mess with street fighter, taekwondo or even boxing & UFC are useless to fight on the street 😂😂
I’m not surprised them two fighting I’m surprised gattuso trying to stop the fight 😂😂😂
01:09 Nedved is like *oh shit, here we go*
Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini, Stam, jesus... Legendary defenders. Campionato had them all back then.
Essa época campeonato italiano era o melhor do mundo.
Verdade Milan,Inter de Milão,Juventus,AS Roma,Lazio tinham seleções
Que maravilhas de elencos , bons tempos
This is the time where real men graced this beautiful game. Even a kungfu kick is just a yellow card. Now we see all rollers and divers trying for Oscars
Forget the fight.. Simply looking at the glut of superstars in this video just shows what a joy to watch Serie A was back in the day. Sad how the league has lost so much over time...
Ibrahimovic contro Stam. Il mondo smise di girare per qualche minuto.
Ahahahaah porcoddio. Gesù ha serrato il paradiso
il mondo ha tremato quando si è azzuffato con Onyewu
L
@@titanio784 Onyewu l'ex difensore americano del Milan gliele suonò a Ibrahimovic.
Jan Koller 👀
Zlaten admitted in his book that Jaap Stam was one of the three guys he was afraid of.
who are the others, God and Satan?
In Italian is "Io Ibra" that is "I Ibra"
i read that book but I don't remember this sentence
gringo it’s false, just another braindead fanboy fishing for likes
I doubt a 6'5 expert martial artist like Zlatan would be scared of some big bald dude who has no martial arts experience. Zlatan would demolish Stam in a fight.
I noticed how Zlatan pulled Stan's arm from the neck and started fighting? Anybody else noticed?
Dida, Buffon, Maldini, Nesta, Stam, Cannavaro, Thuram, Vierra, Gattuso,...
This game has global defense level
Que tiempos todos eran grandes jugadores, ahora hay puros nombres random en esos equipos
No necesariamente, simplemente son nuevas generaciones, nuevos nombres
@@Ariteo333 pero la calidad si es muy diferente, antes tú ponías un Milán Juventus y habían una cantidad de figuras, ahora no conoce uno no quién son los jugadores, es más la mayoría de las personas te dicen la formación titular de los equipos de esa época y no te dicen de como es la formación en la actualidad.
Son epocas bro.. pero volveran los equipos grandes siempre vuelven, les pasa a todos por diferentes motivos se hunden en la mierda pero volveran.
Mutu great player 😂😂 che discorsi fai? La serie A è sempre tra i primi 3 campionati al mondo. Come dice Bonucci "sciacquati la bocca"
@@marcomarco3785 ajá desde 2010 no ganan una Champions.
0:43 Never knew Mbappe used to be Milan's GK back then
I laughed hard 🤣
You probably haven‘t heard of Dida.
@@is-gy7vt it’s a joke bro 😂
شاهد كمية النجوم في الكالتشيو .. اليوم فقط أرجل متخشبة في كل العالم
Il livello del calcio mondiale e crollato...
Legendary Aggresiveness of Mutu who put down Nesta. He once went to a restaurant and beat the waiter...It didnt matter if you were co-national or legend like Nesta here.
Keane is the missing piece of the jigsaw in that game
13 did anyone notice that Stam was dragged from the camera to the left? Yes it was Ibrahimovic who dragged him there and started with him!
Cuando antes había jugadores con mucha calidad y con un carácter muy fuertes y agresivos.
the amount of legends in this video is crazy
Jaap Stam was a beast... Zlatan was also crazy.
If they didn't stop stam there, zlatan would be in a wheelchair right now
I think it would be the other way around man
@@acmilanbackhome.7591 No
LOL Cry clown
No. Wheelchair would be in zlatan
Well Zlatan is an actual martial artist maybe that's why he wasn't intimidated by Stam's frightening looks
Football will never be the same again
my god, the players in this era were beasts
I mean... Ibra is all bark, no bite. Actually, if it is from behind or with someone half his size he is the bravest man alive
Absolutely cap. He literally was the one who grabbed Stam and dragged him away and then wasn't scared of fighting. Zlatan is giant, martial arts expert and grew up in a ghetto where he used to fight very much. You think a guy like this is bluffing?
@@user-hw4uz9xt1land ibrahimovic acknowledged that there was 1 who he actually was afraid of and that was Jaap Stam. Stam was more powerfull at Benchpress and practiced fight sports as well (dutch kickboxing). Don't underestimate Stam in that. Both were beasts and its stupid to say 1 will win over another in a real fight. We just don't know. And they were smart enough to not putt it to the test.
A saudade bateu, eu era criança, mas adorava ver a raça q esse caras defendiam seus clubes.
gattuso che fa da paciere...pazzesco
???
Fabio Zito ahahahajjaajja
Ultra Sur CALABOCA PORRA
Renditi conto il livello di pericolosità che c'era in quel campo.
Stam o único gênio que bateu de frente com ibraimomito, 2 gênios do futebol e loucos
Balestri:eu sou uma piada pra vc?
Love Ibra but Stam would kill him in a fight
Mike Panter bro he knows martial arts so
@@editor7354 He does Tae Kwon Do, he has zero boxing skills. He's not gonna be getting off crazy headkicks in a close combat fight.
ZombieVikingGaming ok then
Yannik but still though he still has a chance
ZombieVikingGaming he still has a clear chance
how many legends in that game jeez
Just as many as today when you have PSG playing against Chelsea or Bayern Munich and talk about that match in the year 2035.... They're not legends though... Football is just a extremely hyped up sport in the media, so elite players are made bigger than they are - Messi probably the only player being worth called a legend.
@@Tourist-Q. r9, cr7, zidane, maradona,
Ill take any of these over messi who is also a legend just not the GOAT.
@@T3rm3nator depends on the position you look and the system that the coach has ... Messi was an offensive midfielder, comint mostly from the wings... Zidane was a center midfielder... If you have a Xavi or Pirlo, you don't need a Zidane.
@Tourist Q
This one of the dumbest shit I have ever read on comment section
Cause yeah dude lakaku comparable to shevshenko
And veratti as legendary as Pirlo
And Christian as good as Cannvaro was and them kimpebe and Ramos as good as Nesta and Maldini
It’s not like 3 of the defender in this game are top 10 greatest defenders of all times Maldini , Cannvaro and Nesta and Stam was up there as top 15-20 greatest defender ever
As Juve fan I’ll admit two things here first that Milan (2002-2007)one of the greatest teams in football history
Literally better than inter that manhandled the best Barca in history in 2010 by a mile too
miss the good old legends..
quel momento in cui fu sfiorata la fine del mondo..
ahahahh
Stam could kill Ibra easily
LOL Clown
@@NicolasBouhelier 🤡
@@NicolasBouhelier “easily” is not fair, maybe. I love both players but i like Zlatan as a person much more then Stam. Still… i would have bet my money on stam… the mf was really scary 😅😅😅
Easy
@@NicolasBouhelier 🤡
lol Zlatan acted tough on Staam because he knew his colleagues were around to save his gay ass from getting raped by the Dutch beast
Willy et scientia what are you talking about? ibra clearly stepped towards stam when they were away from everyone else
zlatan black belt in taekwando he would have Stam easy
Willy et scientia - Yeah Onyewu broke one of Zlatans ribs and Zlatan broke Onyewu's nose + Onyewu was a 6ft6 bodybuilder/defender he would destroy Stam and so would Zlatan.
Zlatan has a freaking black belt in taekwondo, what does your so called "Dutch beast " have?😂
@@varundunna4317 geez, I dont even remember writing this post xD thanks for undigging my past
...nunca mais teremos tantas ESTRELAS juntas num único jogo, séloko...futebol morreu faz tempo....
Mutu & Zlatan epitomes of agressivity
Jaap Stam won the fight ...
Gianni Fraioli Models and Advertising Management You was the referee or the judge? Sit down kid
Did u notice how Zlatan pulled Stam to his side??
He caught him off guard
Zlatan wasn’t strong with juve he was skinny
Also That don’t even require strength he probably was off balance but when Stam got to him he didn’t do shit and went the opposite way he couldn’t even put hands on him
Dida, Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini, Ibra, Stam ecc.. Sono Interista ma mio Dio...
STAM WOULD KICK ZLATAN ASS
I know Stam was a angry guy but
No one disses zlatan
Zlatan would bicycle kick HIS FUCKING BOLD HEAD OFFF!!!!
LOL evA
Eva Elisa Agreed 100%
zlatan a black belt in taekwando he would literally kick stam head off
Jaap will eat him and destroy Zlatan.
Saudades desse Milan
Milan leading 3 goals inside 19 minutes 🔥🔥😂😂
2nd half
No surprise that the fight between Stam and Zlatan lasted for a whole year between 2005 and 2006
Ibra was younger then but he was also as brave as now
0:41 Mbappe 😂😂😂😂😂
Underrated😆
🤣🤣🤣🤣
0:42 Mbappe club mix
Mbappe's dad
Italy at this time was just insane! The players that they had at their disposal, Holy shit
C'era una volta questi giocatori che purtroppo oggi non ci sono più....
Stam wouldn't just smack up zlatan, he could pick him up and play the guitar with him and zlatan wouldn't be able to do anything about it imo
Fact
Because he is bald and looks scary?
0:43 mbappe 🤣🤣🤣
Neymar would be crying for forgiveness if he played in this match 😂💀☠️
0:51 That flash from the stands must have had the most epic photo
Would you save your friend if Stam was aggressing him.. Think very carefuly.....
I would for sure. I like fighting sometimes
cuando el milan daba miedo :(
En esos tiempos si que había fútbol se verdad esos monstruos no se tiraban como ahora ..jugaban bien plantados ..
Now that, was the great GOLD times
Stam, Maldini, Nesta, Gattuso, I never like Milan, but miss those guys on the pitch so much... and on the other side Nedved, Trezeguet, del Piero...
Ibra did not want any part of that!!! 0.26 that's the look of a scared man!!!
Just 1 person on this planet Ibrahimovic shouldn't pick a fight with. The titan: Jaap Stam.
Yea let's just ignore all boxers, MMA fighters, BJJ practitioners that would hand him his ass 😂
@@Tourist-Q. OK captain!
Zlatan has been playing for ever
Ibrahimovic is a typical bully when meets, anyone that can beat him, he run away with its tail betwen his legs.
No not really only your own opinion. Remember these are players, some with hobby training a side
Ibrahimovic doesn't want to get sent off, that's why he hardly gets into fights. He would easily beat the piss out of any footballer including Stam.
Imbrahimovic is a little girl comparate to Stam
Sure. A black belt in Taekwondo is a little girl compared to a guy who has no martial art training.
Stam is huge and wicked
Stam : I'm bad
Ibrahimovic : if u r bad I'm ur dad
Stfu
The gesture of Jorginho is for the future football fans that will never mention him. 😅 In life, the only way to offer educational teachings is by fighting or by stopping a fight. Something people refuse to understand, including Zlatan.
This was a time when football was played by men.
Today's "hardest" player would probably have his face wiping the grass if he squared up to these giants.
stam aveva trovato quello giusto
hand off from his juve teammate .....
Legends left right and centre.
Che tempi.. quanto tempo è passato..
Zlatan does martial arts so good luck Stam
Stam with a fart, unleashed the big bang. Good luck
Stam would destroy ibra, ibra just acts tough because of his teammates around
Zlatan would knock him because of his Slav mentality
@@jovidbodurkhonov7623 that makes no sense
@@democracyrejector u dont know Ibra's past so u have no idea who zlatan is
@@whoisryad I'm aware, don't worry. But slav mentality? That makes no sense.
I miss this milan
이때 축구 정말 재밌었는데..
Buffon,thuram,cannavaro,nedved,del piero, trezeguet, vieira, ibra, cafu',inzaghi, maldini, stam, nesta, pirlo, seedorf, gattuso, kaka, shevchenko. 4 ballon d'or winners, list of champions goes forever when those 2 teams used to play each other at that time...
Zlatan win
ibra lost for sure!
HAHAHAHAHA what drugs are you on mate. Any sensible man know that Zlatan would beat the shit out of that wannabe though guy. You know it too.
wannabe guy hahahahahahahahah wannabe guy? say that to zlatan who couldnt even eat oguchi onyewu haha a non trained footballer that killed zlatan his ribs XDD
Zlatan good fighter.
Gattuso just saved us from a World War
Who else wanted only Zlatan and Stam on pitch to sort it out..? 💥🔥💪👊
Zlatan would eat him for breakfast!
cazzo dici
Quite opp.
Zlatan would break his teeth if he takes a bite in jaap.
Vendela Johansson Jaap wouldve fucked zlatan in the ass
Teake Poelman you just have watched football yesterday if you say that