I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
@@JeremiahMartin-s3g Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story. One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed. And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure. Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically. In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things. Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
@@jjimlee7009Also a shame that the series never got an HD release. I know it'd cost a fortune to do the whole series, but couldn't they have at least done some of the big battle episodes in HD for an anniversary celebration?
@@ManabiLT Yeah. I can hope though someday. At least I can watch on Paramount+ the series in full whenever I want. Never get tired of watching the Sisko kick ass.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
"They outnumber us two to one..." "There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out." "But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!" "We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Like the mindset of the writers of The Last Jedi, how many Imperial Destroyers and Alliance fleet ships do you in the screen?. Fill it up with more CGI copies more ridiculous than the LOTR battles.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
@@Wolfen443 And in book form read Jack Campbell's _The Lost Fleet_ series and its sequels. The author goes into great detail about the three dimensional battles in space, including accounting for the effects of time dilation (battles take place at no more than .2 combined speed of light, anything faster and the computer systems can't account for the uncertainty and score hits) and the vastness of space. (It's commented on often how weird it feels even for career fleet officers to have to wait _days_ for the actual battle after spotting the enemy fleet entering a star system, or when entering a star system themselves.) Honestly, it's hard for me to visualize it all, but I really appreciate him putting in the details.
The Charge of the Light Brigade Alfred, Lord Tennyson 1809 -1892 Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns!" he said: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay’d? Not tho’ the soldier knew Some one had blunder’d: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred. Flash’d all their sabres bare, Flash’d as they turn’d in air Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder’d: Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro’ the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel’d from the sabre-stroke Shatter’d and sunder’d. Then they rode back, but not Not the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro’ the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of Hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wonder’d. Honor the charge they made! Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred!
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle. When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up? Never could get over this.
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
i only noticed this years after viewing but when the dominion battleship blows up, it was because it shot up the other bird of prey and the tumbling wreck crashed along the entire length of the battleship.
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe . It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
I always loved this scene. Back in the old days of Star Trek Online when they allowed you to choose actual cannon ship names to command I chose the Miranda class Majestic and flew her for many years and seeing her blow up on screen is glorious
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse... Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo. That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
I loved the fact star trek finally got brave enough to do something like this. There's always errors on first attempt. However cudos for doing it. Those saying in comments that they could go around the dominion fleet once they had them on scanner. That probably wouldn't work. Dominion could send ships to intercept. Since starfleet was outnumbered better to have fleet stick together. I agree with comments that admiral ross should have been in command of fleet. They had a 4 pip admiral command 40 ships to attack the borg cube. Looks like the writer watched to much Babylon 5 in the fleet to fleet battles. Starfleet ships are way more maneuverable. They need room. This mistake was done in all the large fleet battles. Sisko actually says that as the go through dominion fleet. Can't believe he was the only one to notice that in the fleet. There were alot of captains in the fleet that would have gotten court martialed after the fight. Sisko told everyone to go straight through. There were dozens of federation ships going across the dominion fleet and dozens even going backwards. Again it was a great moment for star trek shows. Why can't we go back to that?
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
I think all this would have made more sense if they had promoted Sisko to Rear Admiral in the last season. Having a Captain command a 600 ship fleet is strange...
A captain is a flag officer, and Sisko was under the wider command of Vice Admiral Ross, who he became adjutant to immediately after losing DS9. The fleet is technically under Ross, who leads the fleet when they attack Cardassia. Starfleet rarely has Admirals of any level command ships on their own, and Sisko is the commanding officer of DS9 and the Defiant. When discussing the attack plans Sisko and Ross get news that the minefield is coming down, which forced them to assemble whatever they could.
@@SantomPh But he is not just commanding the defiant, the defiant is acting as command ship for the whole fleet here and Ross is nowhere to be seen... Every naval fleet on earth I'd carrying at least a commodore, and that is upwards of 4 ships or so...
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
If you are that close. Shields will be worned out extremely fast. Play Start Trek Online, or any ship battle with shield. 1 vs 1 it takes time to knock ti down. But if there's a line of ships, and you have a line of ships. You got phasers, cannons and torpedoes all over the place. If a group of ships target just your ship. You're done. It's a battle otf who has the most ships, who can dish out the most volleys, and finally who can take the most damage. If you're a small ship next to a Jem Hadar Battle Cruister, At full shield, one beam would knockout your shield and blow you up. Those ships have planetary size phasers/polaron emitters.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor. It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9. The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage. Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
The leaders in the Alpha quadrant all bickered and argued that they needed to come together to fight this war from the Dominion who came from the Gamma quadrant, to conquer. Some refused which made it 1:2 in favor of the Dominion
They are numerus, can be crewed by a vary small complement, have tons of parts available at the junkyard, modular allowing them to shoot modern photon torpedo's giving them a powerful punch, and agile the only ships when under impulse power capable of keeping up with the defiant class which was in short supply. And lastly not made out of explodium like the obrith class.
Sisko: "fortune favors the bold" Me: "fortune favors the bald" Sisko: "i sad, fortune favors the bold!" Me: "That´s what she said" ps.: DS9 is one of the best Star Trek shows ever. Even to this day, over 20 years later, i´m stil not 100% sure, was this friendly fire? and what actually destroyed the 2nd Bird of Prey? 4:07
One of the stupidest design features is having the “red alert” lights continuously flash. You know Star Fleet I think the crew understands they are going into battle after a few minutes, so you can turn the flashing lights off
This is normal to use red light in Navel combat operations as it is harder light to see in the distance at night making it harder to spot your ship. although having it blink is probably a TV thing. on a side note blue is starting to replace red light to make it easier to read computer displays. Also It is a secondary communication device if you lose communication with other parts of the ship. Cretan sections of a ship are sealed off during combat and you do not open those secured bulkhead doors under those conditions without orders. Having condition status red yellow etc conveys what rules to follow when you are unable to receive direct orders.
Something I thought was wierd after the finally of picard was in all scenes in the or ds9 the galaxy was a huge lumbering ship in its menuverability. Yet data gets ahold of it and its like a freaking defiant in how it can mve and shoot. Im sure other helmsmen woupd have some sort of skill to do near the same if let off their orders leash.
Excluding the Defiant you mean? Coz the Defiant took out MANY Jem'hadar ships on her own both on and off screen. We also see a runabout destroy a Jem'hadar ship.
That's true about the runabout. I had forgotten that. But that's true about any other Starfleet ships. How funny. I can only think of the Odyssey as even engaging the Jem Hadar.
It never made sense to me why a fleet like that would be commanded by a relatively junior captain on one ship instead of an admiral with a full staff on a command ship.
Quite a few Federation battles without the Enterprise, including this one. There's a handful of Galaxy-class ships, but none of them, to my knowledge, are the Ent D.
why is the "Admiral'" of this engagement in a destroyer (at best) class ship? Cisco should be commanding from the flag ship which should be some dreadnaught in the rear guard.....
He was commanding on the flagship. The defiant was designed to be a warship from the start. The galaxy ships were design for long range exploration, modified for war.
Also Sisko is no "Sendling others to death and saying back" type. For his Charakter its totally plausibel that He is leading by example taking Hits and risk along with his man. Thats what Sisko is a "frontline commander" no "fucking Office and desc Admiral" Even if He would have survived DS9 in human Form, I dont think where would have been a Admiral Sisko. He would tske the honor to have Private Meetings with klingone chancellor, federstion president and others if the Chance arise but He would have denied a Promotion to Admiral. Thats not what he is.
I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
I definitely will take this over the current Star Trek releases.
You should check out seasons 3 and 4 of babylon 5. They were out atyhesame time and competed for viewers...
Agreed!!
@@JeremiahMartin-s3g Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story.
One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
The part where the two Galaxy Class ships swooped in and obliterated the Galor Class ship was a freaking amazing start to the battle.
The Miranda class starship. Take punches to the face for The Federation since 2260.
The red shirts of starships
We used to refer to this scene as the Defiant having "Ablative Miranda-class Shields"
Reliant...... Captain Terrel
Yet boldly they rode, and well.
The Miranda class was where Janeway learned about "punching your way through" in command school. 😏
Ah, the Klingon "Ride of the Rohirrim - moment" ...
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed.
And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
SEATAC. Seattle-Tacoma.
@@stratfordbaby Check USS Sitak at Memory Alpha. UA-cam won't allow direct link.
Such a bummer they blazed out. But EPIC
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
@@stratfordbabyAs a non-(north) American, thanks for the clarification.
"Auxiliary power to weapons! We're going to fight our way out of this!" Klingon commander, to himself; "I think I just had a wargasm."
This is how you do it.
Every ships a character in the story and through them you see the drama unfold.
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure.
Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically.
In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things.
Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
I’d like to point out this was a TV series where SFX department had just weeks to do everything each ep. And the score was Oscar level.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
@@shamelessnjc Yeah it's amazing how talented the cast and crew were. It's a damn shame they never got a movie.
@@jjimlee7009Also a shame that the series never got an HD release. I know it'd cost a fortune to do the whole series, but couldn't they have at least done some of the big battle episodes in HD for an anniversary celebration?
Imagine being aboard thinking well I could have been on the enterprise but u had cause that rip in the fabric of time and land here. Boom
@@ManabiLT Yeah. I can hope though someday. At least I can watch on Paramount+ the series in full whenever I want. Never get tired of watching the Sisko kick ass.
This is a space battle. And the sequence has aged very well. I just wish there were longer combat sequences.
CGI was still in it's infancy and they did a mix of that and practical models.
Limited budget and the times, half of the shots used here are reused in the battle for cardassia later.
Imagine being in one of those fighters and knowing you have seconds remaining of life. It's a ridiculous suicide assignment.
You accept you are dead already. You just make sure to take out more of them, before you go down.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
those fighters are automated in the 24th century
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
"They outnumber us two to one..."
"There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out."
"But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!"
"We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Amazing... I'm stealing this.
Audentes fortunae juvat
The most important part : they have 1200 ships. So Sisqo just lost 600 ships.
Like the mindset of the writers of The Last Jedi, how many Imperial Destroyers and Alliance fleet ships do you in the screen?. Fill it up with more CGI copies more ridiculous than the LOTR battles.
Garak's face when the Klingons arrive 😂
"Aha! My elaborately cunning plans have succeeded once again!"
Star Trek had an amazing ability to make you believe that ships couldn’t get past each other easily, in the infinite void of space.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway , for that detail of a battle set up you need Legend Of The Galactic Heroes or maybe Gundam.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
@@Wolfen443 And in book form read Jack Campbell's _The Lost Fleet_ series and its sequels. The author goes into great detail about the three dimensional battles in space, including accounting for the effects of time dilation (battles take place at no more than .2 combined speed of light, anything faster and the computer systems can't account for the uncertainty and score hits) and the vastness of space. (It's commented on often how weird it feels even for career fleet officers to have to wait _days_ for the actual battle after spotting the enemy fleet entering a star system, or when entering a star system themselves.)
Honestly, it's hard for me to visualize it all, but I really appreciate him putting in the details.
There’s always been something beautiful about the lines of the miranda class ships.
The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
1809 -1892
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honor the charge they made!
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
Whatever it is you are reciting, I wish you'd stop.
@@Anthony-jo7up It is what is being quoted in the clips my man. Learn a little history.
Interesting how no-one trusts Garak but Sisko trusts him to be in a key role on the Defiant.
You can always trust Garek, provided your interests align. If they do, he's a hell of an asset.
Better have Garak close and as an asset, than to allow him to be unmonitored even for a Moment. Wise decicion by Sisko
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
I'd rather see the ships than shield blurs everywhere. But that's just me.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle.
When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up?
Never could get over this.
It was a style choice, if there had been shield flares everytime a ship was hit, it would have had to have a seizure warning.
@@philipsnyder1687 lol
It was also a technical thing. They couldn't do shields for a hundred ships ether.
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
ExactoMundo
When the Klingon bird of prey blows up another when helping the defiant to breakthrough
i only noticed this years after viewing but when the dominion battleship blows up, it was because it shot up the other bird of prey and the tumbling wreck crashed along the entire length of the battleship.
Very nice quality upload. Thanks!
Bird of Preys were the way to go. You can run the ship with a crew of like 20 and it can rival any Jem'Hadar attack ship.
You can run a jem hadar ship on that too, and Jemmies are disposable
@@Belisaur Yea but flying a Jem'Hadar ship is harder with no damn viewscreen.
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
still better than Discovery
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe .
It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
@@cft9798Well a fair chunk of the first season was set in the mirror universe 😁
Much better, pal. Much better.
Still gets the blood pumping!
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
Those Birds of Prey flying alongside the Defiant had the right idea: start firing, keep firing, don't stop firing. :-)
Poor Will... Everyone is firing at him... LOL
Good thing the Enterprise has plot armor then :P
@@jpalmer999 NOT that Will, the other one.
@@aracuron9956oh no
Nu trek certainly doesn’t come near as bad ass as this, I miss this show
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
the moment you her Klingon Disrupters, you realize its a very different battle
I always loved this scene. Back in the old days of Star Trek Online when they allowed you to choose actual cannon ship names to command I chose the Miranda class Majestic and flew her for many years and seeing her blow up on screen is glorious
LOL I never noticed that the Klingons fly in from sun position like the Red Baron.
"They came screaming out of the sun..."
Sacrifice of Ange3ls, RIP angels. I saw two galaxy class go down.
Awesome scene of the TV show , WoW.
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse...
Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
Still, to this day, some of the best battles in science fiction. I still get goosebumps when the Klingons come in fking sht up.
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
Can you imagine how happy the Klingons in the Bird of Preys were when charging with the Defiant at their sides?
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4:05 - The Klingon ships were shooting themselves!
Classic Klingon all the time fighting each other lol
Certainly looked like friendly fire took out that first BoP.
They get a little excited sometimes.
The first one looks like it, I guess it does happen in the heat of battle. It could also have been a polaron torpedo from one of the battlecruisers
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
2:42 - shields suck on a Miranda class. One shot and the saucer section is toast. 😮
Fix them then: 6 Lines of code... 👽👽😎🙃🥳🦍
It’s an old hull, only so much you can do to upgrade and retool it.
Would suggest that the power input was so massive that the shields immediately overloaded, as if they weren't there.
By this point in history, the Miranda class was already half a century or more old. It wasn't built for modern combat.
@@terryroraus Miranda had only upgraded phasers and was 100 years old, but Excelsior class had new shields, phasers and quantum torpedos.
The fact the attack fighters weren’t using full power torpedoes is an insult to their crews.
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo.
That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
This was quality sci-fi, they don't make shows like this any more.
I loved the fact star trek finally got brave enough to do something like this. There's always errors on first attempt. However cudos for doing it.
Those saying in comments that they could go around the dominion fleet once they had them on scanner. That probably wouldn't work. Dominion could send ships to intercept. Since starfleet was outnumbered better to have fleet stick together. I agree with comments that admiral ross should have been in command of fleet. They had a 4 pip admiral command 40 ships to attack the borg cube.
Looks like the writer watched to much Babylon 5 in the fleet to fleet battles. Starfleet ships are way more maneuverable. They need room. This mistake was done in all the large fleet battles. Sisko actually says that as the go through dominion fleet. Can't believe he was the only one to notice that in the fleet.
There were alot of captains in the fleet that would have gotten court martialed after the fight. Sisko told everyone to go straight through. There were dozens of federation ships going across the dominion fleet and dozens even going backwards. Again it was a great moment for star trek shows. Why can't we go back to that?
DS9 version of SW Battle of Endor.
Lol. Lucas had a far larger budget!
That Cardacian dude had a lot of balls for playing with Cisco‘s balls. 😅👉🏼⚾️🤷🏻♂️
Best battle scene of all start trek seeing the Klingons coming from nowhere
Best Star Trek series ever. My two favorites are Babylon 5 and Star Trek DS9.
Deep Space Nine was some of the best Star Trek ever made. Totally contrasts with what they are making now.
All of the previous ones do.
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
Nice thanks for this video!
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
This was basically the turning point in FX. For close ups and hero ships, they still relied on physical models but the rest was CGI.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
Its fitting that Sisko says 'Fortune favors the bald!'
After the Dominion War, The Starlfeet improve and build reallye more Batlle Ships to defend her Lines.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
It probably the venture which was one of the galaxy classes seen in other episodes. The other I think was the Magellan
I think all this would have made more sense if they had promoted Sisko to Rear Admiral in the last season. Having a Captain command a 600 ship fleet is strange...
A captain is a flag officer, and Sisko was under the wider command of Vice Admiral Ross, who he became adjutant to immediately after losing DS9. The fleet is technically under Ross, who leads the fleet when they attack Cardassia. Starfleet rarely has Admirals of any level command ships on their own, and Sisko is the commanding officer of DS9 and the Defiant.
When discussing the attack plans Sisko and Ross get news that the minefield is coming down, which forced them to assemble whatever they could.
@@SantomPh But he is not just commanding the defiant, the defiant is acting as command ship for the whole fleet here and Ross is nowhere to be seen...
Every naval fleet on earth I'd carrying at least a commodore, and that is upwards of 4 ships or so...
@@lhommeaudacieux On a Defiant class ship to boot. You would think he'd at least get a Galaxy class ship without civilians on it.
Somehow I picture the Klingons singing as they join the battle.
Guess we know were Geordi got his spares from now ;-)
The concept of breaking through lines in space is certainly a suspension of belief with so few ships.
Funny enough the writers are always thinking 2-dimensional in SciFi... you can just fly/warp around the enemy armada
For any wondering, the poem they are quoting is "Charge of the Light Brigade".
3:57 To this day I luv when O'Brien says that
I would love to see these battles remastered with more updated action sequences.
This was something i very liked. In my opinion there are way to less big space battles in Star Trek series
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
If you are that close. Shields will be worned out extremely fast. Play Start Trek Online, or any ship battle with shield. 1 vs 1 it takes time to knock ti down. But if there's a line of ships, and you have a line of ships. You got phasers, cannons and torpedoes all over the place. If a group of ships target just your ship. You're done. It's a battle otf who has the most ships, who can dish out the most volleys, and finally who can take the most damage.
If you're a small ship next to a Jem Hadar Battle Cruister, At full shield, one beam would knockout your shield and blow you up. Those ships have planetary size phasers/polaron emitters.
SITAK is a Vulcan person… in my mind
"Then its a fair fight" - Ship Master, Halo 3
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor.
It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9.
The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage.
Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
The leaders in the Alpha quadrant all bickered and argued that they needed to come together to fight this war from the Dominion who came from the Gamma quadrant, to conquer. Some refused which made it 1:2 in favor of the Dominion
Random Miranda Crewmember: I just wanted to be a botanist!
❤
I think a more pithy quote would have been "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
If you want to survive more than 8 seconds of screen time, don't escort the Defiant.
Why are there even Miranda in the fleet? Those ships are so easy to destroy. Feel sorry for the crew that serve on those vessels
They are numerus, can be crewed by a vary small complement, have tons of parts available at the junkyard, modular allowing them to shoot modern photon torpedo's giving them a powerful punch, and agile the only ships when under impulse power capable of keeping up with the defiant class which was in short supply. And lastly not made out of explodium like the obrith class.
Sisko: "fortune favors the bold"
Me: "fortune favors the bald"
Sisko: "i sad, fortune favors the bold!"
Me: "That´s what she said"
ps.: DS9 is one of the best Star Trek shows ever. Even to this day, over 20 years later, i´m stil not 100% sure, was this friendly fire? and what actually destroyed the 2nd Bird of Prey? 4:07
I honestly still can't decide if Star Trek Ships are super-tough or extremly squishy. Seems to vary rather heavily...
You're in this battle, but you're assigned to a Miranda. Maybe 10% of them survived but certainly some of them did. Are you on one of them?
With all that "space", you'd figure they'd just go around the blockade.
the blockade has warp engines, too
2:38 That ablative Miranda armor, tho.
It’s fortune favours the brave.
No match for DS9, wooops :o
Why didn't they just move 1000km up or down relative to the enemy fleet, and warp to DS9 from there?
One of the stupidest design features is having the “red alert” lights continuously flash. You know Star Fleet I think the crew understands they are going into battle after a few minutes, so you can turn the flashing lights off
This is normal to use red light in Navel combat operations as it is harder light to see in the distance at night making it harder to spot your ship. although having it blink is probably a TV thing. on a side note blue is starting to replace red light to make it easier to read computer displays. Also It is a secondary communication device if you lose communication with other parts of the ship. Cretan sections of a ship are sealed off during combat and you do not open those secured bulkhead doors under those conditions without orders. Having condition status red yellow etc conveys what rules to follow when you are unable to receive direct orders.
So this guy was in charge of a 600 ship fleet? Not a 4 or 5 start admiral?
Something I thought was wierd after the finally of picard was in all scenes in the or ds9 the galaxy was a huge lumbering ship in its menuverability. Yet data gets ahold of it and its like a freaking defiant in how it can mve and shoot. Im sure other helmsmen woupd have some sort of skill to do near the same if let off their orders leash.
Dying with the Cardashians
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Someone said that at no point in the entire run of DS9 do we see a Federation ship destroy a Jem'Hadar ship and now I can't unsee it
Excluding the Defiant you mean? Coz the Defiant took out MANY Jem'hadar ships on her own both on and off screen. We also see a runabout destroy a Jem'hadar ship.
That's true about the runabout. I had forgotten that. But that's true about any other Starfleet ships. How funny. I can only think of the Odyssey as even engaging the Jem Hadar.
It never made sense to me why a fleet like that would be commanded by a relatively junior captain on one ship instead of an admiral with a full staff on a command ship.
Never a Federation battle without the Enterprise
Quite a few Federation battles without the Enterprise, including this one. There's a handful of Galaxy-class ships, but none of them, to my knowledge, are the Ent D.
why is the "Admiral'" of this engagement in a destroyer (at best) class ship? Cisco should be commanding from the flag ship which should be some dreadnaught in the rear guard.....
He was commanding on the flagship. The defiant was designed to be a warship from the start. The galaxy ships were design for long range exploration, modified for war.
Also Sisko is no "Sendling others to death and saying back" type. For his Charakter its totally plausibel that He is leading by example taking Hits and risk along with his man. Thats what Sisko is a "frontline commander" no "fucking Office and desc Admiral"
Even if He would have survived DS9 in human Form, I dont think where would have been a Admiral Sisko. He would tske the honor to have Private Meetings with klingone chancellor, federstion president and others if the Chance arise but He would have denied a Promotion to Admiral. Thats not what he is.
@@aracuron9956 agreed. He hated the adjunct role for Ross at the beginning of the war
@@austinperry1671 not only this He even punched Q on the nose. Name 3 other who would dare.... Ok name two 🤣
@@aracuron9956 post Picard season 3 Jack, Sisko, Janeway
Won't anyone give praise for that Galaxy Class cruiser which obliterated one Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser at 03:03?
It's always so two dimensional with these battles.
Those space battle tactics really make no sense. Not only is there an old saying that still in vogue but also the battle line still goes.
This black captain is a shadow of Captain Kirk
Fortune favours the bald - cisco
There is a big gap of firepower difference between the Kilngon ships and the rest
The Federation should have sent Picard to negotiate an alliance with the Borg. How many Cubes would it take to wipe out the Dominian?