Many thanks to Mary for being there to aid the conversation, to Anam for calling in and having a nice chat, to Rob for popping in at the end, and to everyone in chat for some good interaction. Special thanks to John Wilson and Jack Ray (2x) for the superchats. To any Muslim who would like to continue this conversation, or start another, email me at thaddeus@reasonedanswers.com to set up a time for a friendly, live chat.
I just learned of the word Jauhar. In one of the streams of Apostate Prophet a superchat mentioned it. A few hundred years ago Muslim invaders either took the women as sex slaves and they performed necrophilia on the dead women. So tens of thousands of women committed suicide by burning themselves when their armies were defeated so they are not defiled, neither dead nor alive. There might be more to the story than I just told now. After all this is a highly emotional topic and it is about ancient myths. But I think you might be interested in hearing about it and perhaps one day there will be a stream about the Muslim invasion into India.
In Pakistan, “maakir” means deceiver. Pakistan uses a lot of Arabic words in their vocabulary, and everyone knows that a maakir is not an honourable thing.
Arabic may have changed a lot since the time of Mohammed. But then again, the bias should be towards the positive, as Allah is described as the greatest in doing maakir.
@@philippbrogli779 …Just like we can read and understand all Ancient Greek, Hebrew and Egyptian Hieroglyphics….trust me, Muhammad’s late century Arabic books can also be easily understood. Don’t fall for the lies. Also, did you know that centuries before muhammad, it was said that Satan would be the father(greatest) of deceivers/liers??? You can go and find it within the Holy Bible. It also states that satan will come to “kill, steal, and destroy” and that is exactly what islam does, just as their books tell them to do.
@@freedom4life312 I don't deny any of that. Although I don't have most of the relevant knowledge due to my different background and education. I just said the specific argument that todays definition of the pakistani maakir can have a different definition than the backwater usage of the time of Muhammed.
@@philippbrogli779 …I head you my friend, but it’s exactly what it mean, they even claim that the quran is clear, complete and good for all times. Not only that, but Al-Lah (moon god of mecca) has proven to be a deceiver when he showed up on the scene and literally deceived millions over time to think that Jesus was not crucified and rose again as ancient Scriptures claim. Billions today believe that lie, and rather ignore what came first and buy the biggest lie of the 7th century. Greatest lie ever told, and many fell for it sadly.
I was reminded of the hadith in which Allah's boss speaks of a SEVEN-day creation. Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) took hold of my hands and said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after 'Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night. This hadith is narrated through another chain of transmitters. : Sahih Muslim 2789 In Arabic, the days of the week are numbered, except Saturday and Friday. So in this hadith the first day of the week is the second day of creation. Saturday, of course, is the Sabbath, which the text has.
Narrated Ibn `Abbas: I did not see anything so resembling minor sins as what Abu Huraira said from the Prophet, who said, "Allah has written for the son of Adam his inevitable share of adultery whether he is aware of it or not: The adultery of the eye is the looking (at something which is sinful to look at), and the adultery of the tongue is to utter (what it is unlawful to utter), and the innerself wishes and longs for (adultery) and the private parts turn that into reality or refrain from submitting to the temptation." : Sahih al-Bukhari 6612
I was reminded of this: From, Qur'an Contradictions: Can Angels take away life? The Islamic narrations go so far as to even say that angels are used to create a person’s soul while still in the womb: 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud reported: Evil one is he who is evil in the womb of his mother and the good one is he who takes lesson from the (fate of) others. The narrator came to a person from amongst the Companion of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) who was called Hudhaifa b. Usaid Ghifari and said: How can a person be an evil one without (committing an evil) deed? Thereupon the person said to him: You are surprised at this, whereas I have heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saving: When forty nights pass after the semen gets into the womb, Allah sends the angel and gives him the shape. Then he creates his sense of hearing, sense of sight, his skin, his flesh, his bones, and then says: My Lord, would he be male or female? And your Lord decides as He desires and the angel then puts down that also and then says: My Lord, what about his age? And your Lord decides as He likes it and the angel puts it down. Then he says: My Lord, what about his livelihood? And then the Lord decides as He likes and the angel writes it down, and then the angel gets out with his scroll of destiny in his hand and nothing is added to it and nothing is subtracted from it. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6393) Abu Tufail reported: I visited Abu Sariha Hudhaifa b. Usaid al-Ghifari who said: I listened with these two ears of mine Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The semen stays in the womb for forty nights, then the angel gives it a shape. Zubair said: I think that he said: One who fashions that and decides whether he would be male or female. Then he (the angel) says: Would his limbs be full or imperfect? And then the Lord makes them full and perfect or otherwise as He desires. Then he says: My Lord, what about his livelihood, and his death and what about his disposition? And then the Lord decides about his misfortune and fortune. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6395) Here is another version that is translated from the Arabic: Abdullah ibn Masud said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), who is the most truthful (of human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) told us: ‘The constituents of one of you is gathered in his mother’s womb for forty days, then it becomes a clot of blood within another period of forty days. Then it becomes chewed lump of flesh, and forty days later, Allah sends His angel to it to breathe into it the spirit. The angel comes with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds and whether he will doomed or blessed." (Sahih Muslim, Book 33, Number 6893 (??), text and reference are quoted as given in this Muslim article)
I was reminded of my post, The Journey Across the Red Sea The clear and detailed Quran doesn't actually name the sea. Moses strikes the sea: S 20:77 And we inspired Musa: Travel by night with my slaves and strike a way for them in the sea, dry, not fearing a path nor fearing. S 26:63 Then we inspired Musa: Strike the sea with your staff. Then it split apart and each part was like the great Tawd. Tawd is a garbled form of the Syriac tur 'mountain'. The article is prefixed, so what mountain is in the author's mind? Sinai? Was the author uncertain as to how many parts the sea was split into? Crossing and passing beyond: S 7:138 And we crossed the sea with the Banu Isra’il. Then they came upon a people devoting themselves to idols of theirs. They said: Musa, make us a god like what gods they have. He said: You are ignorant people. S 10:90 And we passed beyond the sea with the Banu Isra’il and Fir’awn and his troops followed them in rebellion and enmity until when the drowning came suddenly upon them, he said: I have believed that there is no god but the one whom the Banu Isra’il has believed in and I am of the Muslims. 'We' crossed and passed beyond the sea. Did Allah accompany the Israelites? Did they sail across it? Did the author have a hazy recollection of the pillar of cloud and of fire as recorded in Exodus 13? 21And the LORD went before them in a pillar of cloud to guide their way by day, and in a pillar of fire to give them light by night, so that they could travel by day or night. 22Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place before the people. [biblehub .com/bsb/exodus/13 .htm] See also: Qur'an Difficulty: Was Pharaoh Drowned or Saved? Allah parts the sea: S 2:50 And when we parted the sea for you we saved you and drowned Fir’awn’s family while you look. A hadith says: Narrated Ikrimah: The Holy Prophet (ﷺ) said to Ibn Suriya': I remind you by Allah Who saved you from the people of Pharaoh, made you cover the sea, gave you the shade of clouds, sent down to you manna and quails, sent down you Torah to Moses, do you find stoning (for adultery) in your Book? He said: You have reminded me by the Great. It is not possible for me to belie you. He then transmitted the rest of the tradition. [abudawud:3626] The word translated 'made you cover' is from the verb qata'a' 'to cut'. Did the Israelites part the sea?
12:28 I would argue that the Quran doesn’t really deny the crucifixion of Jesus. And that allah didn’t deceived. If you read surah 21:35 it says that every soul will taste death and all of us are soul in a body which would include Jesus since he was human being like us. So when the Quran says “it was made to appear so to them” and “i will raise you up to myself” is referring to his soul. not his body since it’s dead. I also had a strange thought that it could be referring to his resurrection. But I doubt it. There is also one translation for surah 3:55 that says “i will cause you to die and raise you up to me” (safi kaskas)
It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: “The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: ‘Allah led those who came before us astray from Friday. Saturday was for the Jews and Sunday was for the Christians. And they will lag behind us until the Day of Resurrection. We are the last of the people of this world but we will be the first to be judged among all of creation.’” Ibn Majah 1083
Yes and no. I’m firmly not a Calvinist but there are some differences. Most Calvinist folks I think are sincerely misunderstanding Rom 9 and other proof texts and are still Christians insofar as they are orthodox on critical matters of how to be saved.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them. Muslim 2749
From, None Can Feel Safe From Allah's Schemes This is why Abu Bakr wept over not knowing whether he was truly saved or not: “Although he had such a faith, which was too great to suffice all the inhabitants of the earth, he was afraid that his heart might go astray. So, he used to utter, while weeping: ‘Would that I have been a bitten tree!’ Whenever he was reminded of his position in Allah’s sight, he would say: ‘By Allah! I would not rest assured and feel safe from the deception of Allah (la amanu limakr Allah), even if I had one foot in paradise.’” (Khalid Muhammad Khalid, Successors of the Messenger, translated by Muhammad Mahdi al-Sharif [Dar al-Kotob al-Ilmiyah, Beirut Lebanon, 2005], Book One: Abu Bakr Has Come, p. 99
🙏 We must go and preach [repentance] And [remission of sins] Among All nations and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47 KJV - Believe [for your faith will save you] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for [if ye believe not] that I am he, ye shall [die in your sins.] John 8:24 KJV - To give knowledge of salvation [by the remission of "our" sins] To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the [remission of their sins,] Luke 1:77 KJV - Receive [remission of sins] when we are converted To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name [whosoever believeth] [in him] shall [receive] [remission of sins.] Acts 10:43 KJV - Confession of sin [confess your sins, everyday] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to [forgive us our sins,] and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 KJV - [Remission of sins] from water baptism Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [baptized] every one of you in the [name of Jesus Christ] for the [remission of sins,] and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38 KJV - Have charity [to have compassion] And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall [cover the multitude of sins.] 1 Peter 4:8 KJV - Love [to love thy neighbor as thyself] Hatred stirreth up strifes: but [love covereth all sins.] Proverbs 10:12 KJV - Convert sinner from his error of sin [convince someone of their error, like we were convinced] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall [hide a multitude of sins.] James 5:20 KJV - Endure [predestined are those that endure until the end and do not die in sin] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall [endure unto the end,] the same [shall be saved.] Mark 13:13 KJV - Sincere turn from practice of sin [or All will likewise perish] I tell you, Nay: but, [except ye repent,] ye shall [all likewise perish.] Luke 13:3 KJV
My post, Neither Killed Nor Crucified In S 4:157 we read of some unnamed people saying that they had killed Isa. And their saying: We killed the Messiah, Isa son of Maryam, the messenger of Allah. And they did not kill him and they did not crucify him but it was made to appear to them. And those who have differed about it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, of a certainty. But the author states that they didn't kill or crucify him. Did the author think that crucifixion was not a death penalty but that a man might be killed THEN crucified? In Al-Tabari's tafsir we read: " وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم "، يعني: وما قتلوا عيسى وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم. "And they did not kill him and they did not crucify him but it was made to appear to them." Meaning: And they didn't kill Isa and they didn't crucify him but it was made to appear to them. ... أنا عيسى= وقد صوّره الله على صورة عيسى، فأخذوه فقتلوه وصلبوه. I am Isa=and Allah formed him upon the image of Isa, and they took him and killed him and crucified him. [quran .ksu .edu .sa/tafseer/tabary/sura4-aya157 .html] Further reading: The Crucifixion of Christ - A Christian Critique of the Quran
I give up - Islam is so incredibly stupid at every conceivable level that I can't give a natural explanation for its success. Clearly, some supernatural power is pushing this on us.
Narrated `Abdullah bin Mus'ud: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." Bukhari 3208
To answer one or two of Anam's points - yes, Christ did use logic, reason, and rhetoric to make points and cause puffed-up, self-important people (who tried to trap him into unsolvable logic or theology puzzles) to look foolish. But being smarter or more skilled than your opponent isn't a deception. Winning an argument by being clever isn't the same as tricking your opponent. Not falling into somebody else's trap is not the same as trapping them in return. Along the same lines, God obviously knows more than Satan or the people who killed Jesus. Of course, God had intentions they weren't aware of, and His sovereign will won out over theirs. But there is a tremendous difference between God knowing more than humans or Satan such that he always gets the final victory and God DELIBERATELY MISGUIDING people in the way Islamic sources state Allah does. God not exposing everything He's planning differs categorically from Allah revealing falsehoods when it pleases him.
My post, Allah Misguides S 2:26 Allah is not ashamed to make a similitude of even a mosquito and even above it. So as for those who have believed, and they know that it is the truth from their lord, and as for those who have disbelieved, and they say: What did Allah want by this similitude? He misguides therewith many and guides therewith many. And he does not misguide therewith except the fasiqun. S 4:88 So what is wrong with you concerning the hypocrites, two bands? And Allah overturned them for what they earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allah has misguided? And him whom Allah misguides, you will not find a way for him. S 4:143 Fluctuating between that, not to those and not to those. And he whom Allah misguides, you will not find a way for him. S 6:39 And those who have called our verses a lie are deaf and dumb, in the darknesses. He whom Allah wills, he misguides him and he whom he wills, he puts him on a straight path. S 6:125 Whomever Allah wants to guide, he expands his chest to Islam. And whomever he wants to misguide, he makes his chest tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus Allah puts rijs on those who do not believe. Regarding rijs, see my post: [allah-the-filthy-monkey] S 7:178 Whom Allah guides, he is the guided and those he misguides, those, they are the losers. S 7:186 He whom Allah misguides has no guide. And he leaves them wandering blindly in their oppression. S 9:115 And Allah would not misguide a people after he had guided them until he makes clear to them what they fear. Allah is learned in everything. S 13:27 And those who have disbelieved say: Why has a sign not been sent down upon him from his lord? Say: Allah misguides whom he wills and guides to him he who has turned. S 13:33 So is he who is resting on every soul with what it has earned…? And they have made partners for Lah. Say: Name them. Or do you inform him of what he does not know on the Earth or of the apparent of speech? Rather it has been adorned for those who have disbelieved, their plot, and they have been blocked from the way. And he whom Allah misguides has no guide. S 14:4 And we have not sent any messenger except with the tongue of his people to clarify for them. And Allah misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. And he is the mighty, the wise. S 14:27 Allah fixes those who have believed with the fixed speech in the dunya life and in the hereafter. And Allah misguides the wrongdoers. And Allah does what he wills. S 16:37 If you desire their guidance, Allah does not guide him whom he misguides and they have no helpers. S 16:93 And had Allah willed he would have made you one nation but he misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. And you shall be asked about what you used to do. S 17:97 And he whom Allah guides, he is the guided; and he whom Allah misguides, you will not find for them protectors instead of him. And we gather them on the day of resurrection on their faces--blind and dumb and deaf. Their shelter is Jahannam. Every time it abated we increased the blaze for them. S 18:17 And you see the sun when it rose declining from their cave to the right and when it set departing from them to the left while they are in a gap thereof. That is of Allah’s signs. Him whom Allah guides, he is the guided and him whom he misguides, you will not find a guiding protector for him. We might add S 22:3-4 And among people is he who argues about Allah without knowledge and follows every stubborn devil. It has been written upon him that he who has nominated him that he misguides him and he guides him to the torture of the blaze. S 35:8 So is he whom the evil of his deed has been adorned for and he has seen it as good? So Allah misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. So do not let your soul go upon them in regrets. Allah is a knower of what they do. S 39:23 Allah has sent down the best hadith, a book, resembling, a repeated thing. The skins of those who fear their lord shiver from it then their skins and their hearts relax at Allah’s dhikr. That is Allah’s guidance. He guides therewith whom he wills. And whom Allah misguides there is no guide for him. Regarding 'dhikr', see my posts: [dhikr] [people-of-the-dhikr-1] [people-of-the-dhikr] S 39:36 Is Allah not enough for his slave? And they frighten you with those instead of him. And he whom Allah misguides has no guide. S 40:33 A day you turn away fleeing you have no defender against Allah. And him whom Allah misguides has no guide. S 40:34 And Yusuf came to you before with the proofs but you did not cease in doubt about what he had brought you until when he perished you said: Allah will not raise a messenger after him. Thus Allah misguides him who is extravagant, a doubter. S 40:73-74 Then it was said to them: Where is what you used to associate Instead of Allah? They said: They have strayed from us. Rather, we did not invoke anything before. Thus Allah misguides the kafirun. S 42:44 And whom Allah misguides, he has no protector after him. And you see the wrongdoers when they have seen the torture saying: Is there any way to a reason? S 42:46 And they had no protectors to help them instead of Allah. And whom Allah misguides, he has no way. S 74:31 And we have not made the companions of the fire but angels. And we have not made their number except as fitnah for those who have disbelieved that those who were given the Book may be certain and that those who have believed may increase in faith and that those who were given the Book and the believers may not doubt and that those in whose hearts is disease and the kafirun may say: What did Allah want by this example? Thus Allah misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. And none knows your lord’s troops but him. And it is nothing but a remembrance for the human being. Regarding fitnah, see my post: [fitnah] Regarding angels, see: [the-denizens-of-hell-men-or-angels]
There's no Jesus in the Koran, but Isa. Isa is another character invented by the false prophet of islam. He is the nephew of Moses. He was born 1250 before Jesus.
End of all debates here. Jesus showed me in an open vision I saw myself in the outer darkness and in front of this big statue! I saw al-lah. So no one can convince me that who al-lah is! Thank you Jesus for this revelation! Jesus Christ is Lord and coming soon are you all ready? Hallelujah.
I thought satan himself is the best of deceivers! But then al-lah in quran says that! Isn't it that demon who inspired Mohammad is in competition with satan! Is this a competition to drag more souls to hell!?
S 8:43-44 Allah made them appear in your dream as few. Had He made them appear as many, you would have faltered, and disputed over the matter. But Allah saved the situation. He knows what is within the hearts./ When you met, He made them appear as few in your eyes, and He made you appear fewer in their eyes, so that Allah may conclude a predetermined matter. To Allah all matters revert. (ITANI - Allah) Below is Judges 7 Gideon's Army of Three Hundred 1Then Jerubbaal, who is Gideon, and all the people that were with him, rose up early, and pitched beside the well of Harod: so that the host of the Midianites were on the north side of them, by the hill of Moreh, in the valley. 2And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me. 3Now therefore go to, proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whosoever is fearful and afraid, let him return and depart early from mount Gilead. And there returned of the people twenty and two thousand; and there remained ten thousand. 4And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go. 5So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink. 6And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water. 7And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place. 8So the people took victuals in their hand, and their trumpets: and he sent all the rest of Israel every man unto his tent, and retained those three hundred men: and the host of Midian was beneath him in the valley. Gideon's Dream 9And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Arise, get thee down unto the host; for I have delivered it into thine hand. 10But if thou fear to go down, go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the host: 11And thou shalt hear what they say; and afterward shall thine hands be strengthened to go down unto the host. Then went he down with Phurah his servant unto the outside of the armed men that were in the host. 12And the Midianites and the Amalekites and all the children of the east lay along in the valley like grasshoppers for multitude; and their camels were without number, as the sand by the sea side for multitude. 13And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along. 14And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host. Gideon Defeats Midian 15And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian. 16And he divided the three hundred men into three companies, and he put a trumpet in every man's hand, with empty pitchers, and lamps within the pitchers. 17And he said unto them, Look on me, and do likewise: and, behold, when I come to the outside of the camp, it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do. 18When I blow with a trumpet, I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. 19So Gideon, and the hundred men that were with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that were in their hands. 20And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. 21And they stood every man in his place round about the camp: and all the host ran, and cried, and fled. 22And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the LORD set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host: and the host fled to Bethshittah in Zererath, and to the border of Abelmeholah, unto Tabbath. 23And the men of Israel gathered themselves together out of Naphtali, and out of Asher, and out of all Manasseh, and pursued after the Midianites. 24And Gideon sent messengers throughout all mount Ephraim, saying, Come down against the Midianites, and take before them the waters unto Bethbarah and Jordan. Then all the men of Ephraim gathered themselves together, and took the waters unto Bethbarah and Jordan. 25And they took two princes of the Midianites, Oreb and Zeeb; and they slew Oreb upon the rock Oreb, and Zeeb they slew at the winepress of Zeeb, and pursued Midian, and brought the heads of Oreb and Zeeb to Gideon on the other side Jordan.
My post, Can You Will Unless Allah Wills? S 6:111 And had we sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and we had gathered before them everything face to face, they would not believe except that Allah wills. But most of them are ignorant. S 7:89 We would have fabricated a lie against Allah if we returned to your cult after when Allah had saved us from it. And it is not for us to return to it except that Allah our lord wills. Our lord has encompassed everything in knowledge. In Allah we have put our trust. Our lord, decide between us and our people in truth and you are the best of those who decide. S 10:100 And it was not for a soul to believe except with Allah’s permission; and he puts rijs on those who do not comprehend. S 12:76 So he began with their vessels before his brother’s vessel then brought it out from his brother’s vessel. Thus did we scheme for Yusuf. He would not take his brother in the king’s law but that Allah wills. We raise in degrees whom we will and learned above every possessor of knowledge. S 74:56 And he does not remember except that Allah wills. He is the deserving of taqwa and the deserving of forgiveness. S 76:30 And you do not will except that Allah wills. Allah was learned, wise. S 81:29 But you do not will except that Allah, lord of the ‘alamin, wills.
No. I am very ecumenical and I love the patient discussion but you simply cannot declare PBUH to a vile Antichrist as Anam does and be a Christian. The corpus of John’s writings make that impossible to get around. I will hopefully pray for that though!
As Woody Allen's Aunt Rose said, "You can't ride two horses with one behind." (Broadway Danny Rose). Anam is more in love with philosophy than any god. He's very, very deluded.
S 7:179 *And we have created for Jahannam many of jinn and man.* They have hearts they do not comprehend with and they have eyes they do not see with. And they have ears they do not hear with. Those are like cattle, rather, they are more astray. Those, they are the heedless.
Anam's argument is ridiculous: Christ was PROPHESIED, which would be the OPPOSITE of deception. God told us over & over again what was going to happen (that's what a prophecy is) & then He did was He promised to do...exact opposite of deception.
Maybe Jews, Romans etc misunderstood the prophecy, but that was NOT God's fault (Bible doesn't claim God tricked them into this misunderstanding; Quran claims Allah tricked them, so each book has different causality - Bible says THEY chose bad thing, but Quran says ALLAH made them choose bad thing; that's exact opposite).
Closest thing in Bible is that God hardened hearts of people who CHOSE evil; never suggests/implies that anyone was tricked or that were MADE for this, which is very different.
@@Alami-io5em First, which of the many versions of the Quran do you trust? There are more than 30 versions circulating today w/ differences in the razm, so which is the correct Quran? Why would you trust Hafs? He's a known liar, so why trust him? Second, how many Surahs should there be? Muhammad identified 4 reciters whom he taught believers to follow; 2 of them said the Quran was longer or shorter than the current versions - who was right? How do you know? Third, the Quran says that Allah will punish the non-believers by making them Black & he'll reward the believers by making them white, so being Black is a punishment? Is Allah a racist? Fourth, the Quran condemns Satan for refusing to bow down to Adam, but it also says Allah gave the order to angels & that Satan is not an angel, so why was he punished for refusing an order that wasn't given to him? Fifth, the Quran tells me to confirm the Quran with the Torah & Injil that we "have between our hands." Well, we have the Torah/Injil that they had between their hands at the time the Quran was revealed & it does NOT confirm the Quran. So was the Quran wrong? Or did Allah not realize we'd lost the real Torah/Injil? Why did he tell us to confirm the Quran using sources that no longer exist? Why did he describe those sources as being "between our hands" if they'd already been lost/corrupted? Is Allah an idiot or just a poor writer?
@@Alami-io5em Why does Quran tell us that Jesus's Muslim followers were be preserved & dominant when we have no trace of them & the vast vast majority of his followers believe that he's the Son of God (thereby rejecting his Islamic message)? Was Allah lying?
I wasn’t in the entire stream (i had to leave) but it looks you and nor mary didn’t respond to my claim about the “makr” having meanings. Which would have destroyed your argument. And you gave out “proof” by giving false interpretation and cherry picking verses out of context.
The argument in no way centers on "makr only means..." And The claim it means something different was addressed multiple times throughout. I suggest you watch the entire stream - the evidence is in the first half, discussion in the second.
@@ReasonedAnswers then why didn’t you respond to my claim about the word “makr” meaning when I pointed that out 2 or 3 times during the stream? I doubt you mentioned it. Because it would’ve destroyed your entire argument.
Many thanks to Mary for being there to aid the conversation, to Anam for calling in and having a nice chat, to Rob for popping in at the end, and to everyone in chat for some good interaction. Special thanks to John Wilson and Jack Ray (2x) for the superchats.
To any Muslim who would like to continue this conversation, or start another, email me at thaddeus@reasonedanswers.com to set up a time for a friendly, live chat.
I just learned of the word Jauhar. In one of the streams of Apostate Prophet a superchat mentioned it. A few hundred years ago Muslim invaders either took the women as sex slaves and they performed necrophilia on the dead women. So tens of thousands of women committed suicide by burning themselves when their armies were defeated so they are not defiled, neither dead nor alive. There might be more to the story than I just told now. After all this is a highly emotional topic and it is about ancient myths. But I think you might be interested in hearing about it and perhaps one day there will be a stream about the Muslim invasion into India.
Great channel -- knowledgeable, humourous and all -- but can you plea-ea-ea-ease make some time stamps?🙏
Either time stamps or make UA-cam shorts of each section.
good idea!@@MrCaribKaraoke
In Pakistan, “maakir” means deceiver. Pakistan uses a lot of Arabic words in their vocabulary, and everyone knows that a maakir is not an honourable thing.
Arabic may have changed a lot since the time of Mohammed. But then again, the bias should be towards the positive, as Allah is described as the greatest in doing maakir.
@@philippbrogli779 …Just like we can read and understand all Ancient Greek, Hebrew and Egyptian Hieroglyphics….trust me, Muhammad’s late century Arabic books can also be easily understood. Don’t fall for the lies. Also, did you know that centuries before muhammad, it was said that Satan would be the father(greatest) of deceivers/liers??? You can go and find it within the Holy Bible. It also states that satan will come to “kill, steal, and destroy” and that is exactly what islam does, just as their books tell them to do.
@@freedom4life312 I don't deny any of that. Although I don't have most of the relevant knowledge due to my different background and education. I just said the specific argument that todays definition of the pakistani maakir can have a different definition than the backwater usage of the time of Muhammed.
@@philippbrogli779 …I head you my friend, but it’s exactly what it mean, they even claim that the quran is clear, complete and good for all times. Not only that, but Al-Lah (moon god of mecca) has proven to be a deceiver when he showed up on the scene and literally deceived millions over time to think that Jesus was not crucified and rose again as ancient Scriptures claim. Billions today believe that lie, and rather ignore what came first and buy the biggest lie of the 7th century. Greatest lie ever told, and many fell for it sadly.
Wow. Best thumbnail ever. Sad how false religion works.😢 Salute and blessings.
Instances of m-k-r. From, The Quranic Arabic Corpus
Verb (form I) - to plot, to scheme, to plan
(3:54:1) wamakarū And they schemed وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
(3:54:2) wamakara and planned وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
(6:123:8) liyamkurū so that they plot وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَا فِي كُلِّ قَرْيَةٍ أَكَابِرَ مُجْرِمِيهَا لِيَمْكُرُوا فِيهَا
(6:123:11) yamkurūna they plot وَمَا يَمْكُرُونَ إِلَّا بِأَنْفُسِهِمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ
(6:124:29) yamkurūna plot سَيُصِيبُ الَّذِينَ أَجْرَمُوا صَغَارٌ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَعَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَمْكُرُونَ
(7:123:12) makartumūhu you have plotted it إِنَّ هَٰذَا لَمَكْرٌ مَكَرْتُمُوهُ فِي الْمَدِينَةِ لِتُخْرِجُوا مِنْهَا أَهْلَهَا
(8:30:2) yamkuru plotted وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ
(8:30:11) wayamkurūna And they were planning وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
(8:30:12) wayamkuru and (also) was planning وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
(10:21:22) tamkurūna you plot إِنَّ رُسُلَنَا يَكْتُبُونَ مَا تَمْكُرُونَ
(12:102:14) yamkurūna (were) plotting وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ إِذْ أَجْمَعُوا أَمْرَهُمْ وَهُمْ يَمْكُرُونَ
(13:42:2) makara plotted وَقَدْ مَكَرَ الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ فَلِلَّهِ الْمَكْرُ جَمِيعًا
(14:46:2) makarū they planned وَقَدْ مَكَرُوا مَكْرَهُمْ وَعِنْدَ اللَّهِ مَكْرُهُمْ
(16:26:2) makara plotted قَدْ مَكَرَ الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ فَأَتَى اللَّهُ بُنْيَانَهُمْ مِنَ الْقَوَاعِدِ
(16:45:3) makarū plotted أَفَأَمِنَ الَّذِينَ مَكَرُوا السَّيِّئَاتِ أَنْ يَخْسِفَ اللَّهُ بِهِمُ الْأَرْضَ
(16:127:14) yamkurūna they plot وَلَا تَحْزَنْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا تَكُ فِي ضَيْقٍ مِمَّا يَمْكُرُونَ
(27:50:1) wamakarū So they plotted وَمَكَرُوا مَكْرًا وَمَكَرْنَا مَكْرًا وَهُمْ لَا يَشْعُرُونَ
(27:50:3) wamakarnā and We planned وَمَكَرُوا مَكْرًا وَمَكَرْنَا مَكْرًا وَهُمْ لَا يَشْعُرُونَ
(27:70:9) yamkurūna they plot وَلَا تَحْزَنْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا تَكُنْ فِي ضَيْقٍ مِمَّا يَمْكُرُونَ
(35:10:16) yamkurūna plot وَالَّذِينَ يَمْكُرُونَ السَّيِّئَاتِ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ شَدِيدٌ
(40:45:5) makarū they plotted فَوَقَاهُ اللَّهُ سَيِّئَاتِ مَا مَكَرُوا
(71:22:1) wamakarū And they have planned وَمَكَرُوا مَكْرًا كُبَّارًا
Noun
(7:99:2) makra (from the) plan أَفَأَمِنُوا مَكْرَ اللَّهِ
(7:99:6) makra (from the) plan فَلَا يَأْمَنُ مَكْرَ اللَّهِ إِلَّا الْقَوْمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ
(7:123:11) lamakrun (is) surely a plot إِنَّ هَٰذَا لَمَكْرٌ مَكَرْتُمُوهُ فِي الْمَدِينَةِ لِتُخْرِجُوا مِنْهَا أَهْلَهَا
(10:21:11) makrun a plot وَإِذَا أَذَقْنَا النَّاسَ رَحْمَةً مِنْ بَعْدِ ضَرَّاءَ مَسَّتْهُمْ إِذَا لَهُمْ مَكْرٌ فِي آيَاتِنَا
(10:21:17) makran (in) planning قُلِ اللَّهُ أَسْرَعُ مَكْرًا
(12:31:3) bimakrihinna of their scheming فَلَمَّا سَمِعَتْ بِمَكْرِهِنَّ أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَيْهِنَّ وَأَعْتَدَتْ لَهُنَّ مُتَّكَأً
(13:33:29) makruhum their plotting بَلْ زُيِّنَ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مَكْرُهُمْ
(13:42:7) l-makru (is) the plot وَقَدْ مَكَرَ الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ فَلِلَّهِ الْمَكْرُ جَمِيعًا
(14:46:3) makrahum their plan وَقَدْ مَكَرُوا مَكْرَهُمْ
(14:46:6) makruhum (was) their plan وَعِنْدَ اللَّهِ مَكْرُهُمْ
(14:46:9) makruhum their plan وَإِنْ كَانَ مَكْرُهُمْ لِتَزُولَ مِنْهُ الْجِبَالُ
(27:50:2) makran a plot وَمَكَرُوا مَكْرًا
(27:50:4) makran a plan وَمَكَرْنَا مَكْرًا وَهُمْ لَا يَشْعُرُونَ
(27:51:5) makrihim (of) their plot كَيْفَ كَانَ عَاقِبَةُ مَكْرِهِمْ أَنَّا دَمَّرْنَاهُمْ وَقَوْمَهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ
(34:33:7) makru (it was) a plot بَلْ مَكْرُ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ إِذْ تَأْمُرُونَنَا أَنْ نَكْفُرَ بِاللَّهِ
(35:10:21) wamakru and (the) plotting وَمَكْرُ أُولَٰئِكَ هُوَ يَبُورُ
(35:43:4) wamakra and plotting اسْتِكْبَارًا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَمَكْرَ السَّيِّئِ
(35:43:8) l-makru the plot وَلَا يَحِيقُ الْمَكْرُ السَّيِّئُ إِلَّا بِأَهْلِهِ
(71:22:2) makran a plan وَمَكَرُوا مَكْرًا كُبَّارًا
Active participle
(3:54:6) l-mākirīna (of) the planners وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
(8:30:16) l-mākirīna (of) the Planners وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
I was reminded of the hadith in which Allah's boss speaks of a SEVEN-day creation. Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) took hold of my hands and said:
Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after 'Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night. This hadith is narrated through another chain of transmitters. : Sahih Muslim 2789
In Arabic, the days of the week are numbered, except Saturday and Friday. So in this hadith the first day of the week is the second day of creation. Saturday, of course, is the Sabbath, which the text has.
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
I did not see anything so resembling minor sins as what Abu Huraira said from the Prophet, who said, "Allah has written for the son of Adam his inevitable share of adultery whether he is aware of it or not: The adultery of the eye is the looking (at something which is sinful to look at), and the adultery of the tongue is to utter (what it is unlawful to utter), and the innerself wishes and longs for (adultery) and the private parts turn that into reality or refrain from submitting to the temptation." : Sahih al-Bukhari 6612
I was reminded of this: From, Qur'an Contradictions: Can Angels take away life?
The Islamic narrations go so far as to even say that angels are used to create a person’s soul while still in the womb:
'Abdullah b. Mas'ud reported: Evil one is he who is evil in the womb of his mother and the good one is he who takes lesson from the (fate of) others. The narrator came to a person from amongst the Companion of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) who was called Hudhaifa b. Usaid Ghifari and said: How can a person be an evil one without (committing an evil) deed? Thereupon the person said to him: You are surprised at this, whereas I have heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saving: When forty nights pass after the semen gets into the womb, Allah sends the angel and gives him the shape. Then he creates his sense of hearing, sense of sight, his skin, his flesh, his bones, and then says: My Lord, would he be male or female? And your Lord decides as He desires and the angel then puts down that also and then says: My Lord, what about his age? And your Lord decides as He likes it and the angel puts it down. Then he says: My Lord, what about his livelihood? And then the Lord decides as He likes and the angel writes it down, and then the angel gets out with his scroll of destiny in his hand and nothing is added to it and nothing is subtracted from it. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6393)
Abu Tufail reported: I visited Abu Sariha Hudhaifa b. Usaid al-Ghifari who said: I listened with these two ears of mine Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The semen stays in the womb for forty nights, then the angel gives it a shape. Zubair said: I think that he said: One who fashions that and decides whether he would be male or female. Then he (the angel) says: Would his limbs be full or imperfect? And then the Lord makes them full and perfect or otherwise as He desires. Then he says: My Lord, what about his livelihood, and his death and what about his disposition? And then the Lord decides about his misfortune and fortune. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6395)
Here is another version that is translated from the Arabic:
Abdullah ibn Masud said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), who is the most truthful (of human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) told us: ‘The constituents of one of you is gathered in his mother’s womb for forty days, then it becomes a clot of blood within another period of forty days. Then it becomes chewed lump of flesh, and forty days later, Allah sends His angel to it to breathe into it the spirit. The angel comes with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds and whether he will doomed or blessed." (Sahih Muslim, Book 33, Number 6893 (??), text and reference are quoted as given in this Muslim article)
I was reminded of my post, The Journey Across the Red Sea
The clear and detailed Quran doesn't actually name the sea.
Moses strikes the sea:
S 20:77 And we inspired Musa: Travel by night with my slaves and strike a way for them in the sea, dry, not fearing a path nor fearing.
S 26:63 Then we inspired Musa: Strike the sea with your staff. Then it split apart and each part was like the great Tawd.
Tawd is a garbled form of the Syriac tur 'mountain'. The article is prefixed, so what mountain is in the author's mind? Sinai? Was the author uncertain as to how many parts the sea was split into?
Crossing and passing beyond:
S 7:138 And we crossed the sea with the Banu Isra’il. Then they came upon a people devoting themselves to idols of theirs. They said: Musa, make us a god like what gods they have. He said: You are ignorant people.
S 10:90 And we passed beyond the sea with the Banu Isra’il and Fir’awn and his troops followed them in rebellion and enmity until when the drowning came suddenly upon them, he said: I have believed that there is no god but the one whom the Banu Isra’il has believed in and I am of the Muslims.
'We' crossed and passed beyond the sea. Did Allah accompany the Israelites? Did they sail across it? Did the author have a hazy recollection of the pillar of cloud and of fire as recorded in Exodus 13?
21And the LORD went before them in a pillar of cloud to guide their way by day, and in a pillar of fire to give them light by night, so that they could travel by day or night. 22Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place before the people.
[biblehub .com/bsb/exodus/13 .htm]
See also: Qur'an Difficulty: Was Pharaoh Drowned or Saved?
Allah parts the sea:
S 2:50 And when we parted the sea for you we saved you and drowned Fir’awn’s family while you look.
A hadith says:
Narrated Ikrimah:
The Holy Prophet (ﷺ) said to Ibn Suriya': I remind you by Allah Who saved you from the people of Pharaoh, made you cover the sea, gave you the shade of clouds, sent down to you manna and quails, sent down you Torah to Moses, do you find stoning (for adultery) in your Book? He said: You have reminded me by the Great. It is not possible for me to belie you. He then transmitted the rest of the tradition.
[abudawud:3626]
The word translated 'made you cover' is from the verb qata'a' 'to cut'. Did the Israelites part the sea?
12:28 I would argue that the Quran doesn’t really deny the crucifixion of Jesus. And that allah didn’t deceived. If you read surah 21:35 it says that every soul will taste death and all of us are soul in a body which would include Jesus since he was human being like us. So when the Quran says “it was made to appear so to them” and “i will raise you up to myself” is referring to his soul. not his body since it’s dead. I also had a strange thought that it could be referring to his resurrection. But I doubt it. There is also one translation for surah 3:55 that says “i will cause you to die and raise you up to me” (safi kaskas)
It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
“The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: ‘Allah led those who came before us astray from Friday. Saturday was for the Jews and Sunday was for the Christians. And they will lag behind us until the Day of Resurrection. We are the last of the people of this world but we will be the first to be judged among all of creation.’” Ibn Majah 1083
Lol yet another contradiction "Muslims will be judged first" except other hadith describe Jews and Christians being judged before muslims
Islam’s predestination sounds very much like Calvinism.
@@Alami-io5em _"The Christians are not representing Islamic theology correctly"_ Sure, sure. I look forward to chatting with you live.
Yes and no. I’m firmly not a Calvinist but there are some differences. Most Calvinist folks I think are sincerely misunderstanding Rom 9 and other proof texts and are still Christians insofar as they are orthodox on critical matters of how to be saved.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:
By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them. Muslim 2749
If Allah existed and if Allah were the best of 'planners', why the hell did it have its box located in an area prone to flooding?
From, None Can Feel Safe From Allah's Schemes
This is why Abu Bakr wept over not knowing whether he was truly saved or not:
“Although he had such a faith, which was too great to suffice all the inhabitants of the earth, he was afraid that his heart might go astray. So, he used to utter, while weeping: ‘Would that I have been a bitten tree!’ Whenever he was reminded of his position in Allah’s sight, he would say: ‘By Allah! I would not rest assured and feel safe from the deception of Allah (la amanu limakr Allah), even if I had one foot in paradise.’” (Khalid Muhammad Khalid, Successors of the Messenger, translated by Muhammad Mahdi al-Sharif [Dar al-Kotob al-Ilmiyah, Beirut Lebanon, 2005], Book One: Abu Bakr Has Come, p. 99
🙏
We must go and preach [repentance] And [remission of sins] Among All nations
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:47 KJV
- Believe [for your faith will save you]
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for [if ye believe not] that I am he, ye shall [die in your sins.]
John 8:24 KJV
- To give knowledge of salvation [by the remission of "our" sins]
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the [remission of their sins,]
Luke 1:77 KJV
- Receive [remission of sins] when we are converted
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name [whosoever believeth] [in him] shall [receive] [remission of sins.]
Acts 10:43 KJV
- Confession of sin [confess your sins, everyday]
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to [forgive us our sins,] and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9 KJV
- [Remission of sins] from water baptism
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [baptized] every one of you in the [name of Jesus Christ] for the [remission of sins,] and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 KJV
- Have charity [to have compassion]
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall [cover the multitude of sins.]
1 Peter 4:8 KJV
- Love [to love thy neighbor as thyself]
Hatred stirreth up strifes: but [love covereth all sins.]
Proverbs 10:12 KJV
- Convert sinner from his error of sin [convince someone of their error, like we were convinced]
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall [hide a multitude of sins.]
James 5:20 KJV
- Endure [predestined are those that endure until the end and do not die in sin]
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall [endure unto the end,] the same [shall be saved.]
Mark 13:13 KJV
- Sincere turn from practice of sin [or All will likewise perish]
I tell you, Nay: but, [except ye repent,] ye shall [all likewise perish.]
Luke 13:3 KJV
Well, that's exactly what the Quran says even though English translations have tried to soften the actual word... And explain it away
My post, Neither Killed Nor Crucified
In S 4:157 we read of some unnamed people saying that they had killed Isa.
And their saying: We killed the Messiah, Isa son of Maryam, the messenger of Allah. And they did not kill him and they did not crucify him but it was made to appear to them. And those who have differed about it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, of a certainty.
But the author states that they didn't kill or crucify him. Did the author think that crucifixion was not a death penalty but that a man might be killed THEN crucified? In Al-Tabari's tafsir we read:
" وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم "، يعني: وما قتلوا عيسى وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم.
"And they did not kill him and they did not crucify him but it was made to appear to them." Meaning: And they didn't kill Isa and they didn't crucify him but it was made to appear to them.
...
أنا عيسى= وقد صوّره الله على صورة عيسى، فأخذوه فقتلوه وصلبوه.
I am Isa=and Allah formed him upon the image of Isa, and they took him and killed him and crucified him. [quran .ksu .edu .sa/tafseer/tabary/sura4-aya157 .html]
Further reading: The Crucifixion of Christ - A Christian Critique of the Quran
I give up - Islam is so incredibly stupid at every conceivable level that I can't give a natural explanation for its success. Clearly, some supernatural power is pushing this on us.
Narrated `Abdullah bin Mus'ud:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." Bukhari 3208
To answer one or two of Anam's points - yes, Christ did use logic, reason, and rhetoric to make points and cause puffed-up, self-important people (who tried to trap him into unsolvable logic or theology puzzles) to look foolish. But being smarter or more skilled than your opponent isn't a deception. Winning an argument by being clever isn't the same as tricking your opponent. Not falling into somebody else's trap is not the same as trapping them in return.
Along the same lines, God obviously knows more than Satan or the people who killed Jesus. Of course, God had intentions they weren't aware of, and His sovereign will won out over theirs. But there is a tremendous difference between God knowing more than humans or Satan such that he always gets the final victory and God DELIBERATELY MISGUIDING people in the way Islamic sources state Allah does. God not exposing everything He's planning differs categorically from Allah revealing falsehoods when it pleases him.
My post, Allah Misguides
S 2:26 Allah is not ashamed to make a similitude of even a mosquito and even above it. So as for those who have believed, and they know that it is the truth from their lord, and as for those who have disbelieved, and they say: What did Allah want by this similitude? He misguides therewith many and guides therewith many. And he does not misguide therewith except the fasiqun.
S 4:88 So what is wrong with you concerning the hypocrites, two bands? And Allah overturned them for what they earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allah has misguided? And him whom Allah misguides, you will not find a way for him.
S 4:143 Fluctuating between that, not to those and not to those. And he whom Allah misguides, you will not find a way for him.
S 6:39 And those who have called our verses a lie are deaf and dumb, in the darknesses. He whom Allah wills, he misguides him and he whom he wills, he puts him on a straight path.
S 6:125 Whomever Allah wants to guide, he expands his chest to Islam. And whomever he wants to misguide, he makes his chest tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus Allah puts rijs on those who do not believe.
Regarding rijs, see my post: [allah-the-filthy-monkey]
S 7:178 Whom Allah guides, he is the guided and those he misguides, those, they are the losers.
S 7:186 He whom Allah misguides has no guide. And he leaves them wandering blindly in their oppression.
S 9:115 And Allah would not misguide a people after he had guided them until he makes clear to them what they fear. Allah is learned in everything.
S 13:27 And those who have disbelieved say: Why has a sign not been sent down upon him from his lord? Say: Allah misguides whom he wills and guides to him he who has turned.
S 13:33 So is he who is resting on every soul with what it has earned…? And they have made partners for Lah. Say: Name them. Or do you inform him of what he does not know on the Earth or of the apparent of speech? Rather it has been adorned for those who have disbelieved, their plot, and they have been blocked from the way. And he whom Allah misguides has no guide.
S 14:4 And we have not sent any messenger except with the tongue of his people to clarify for them. And Allah misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. And he is the mighty, the wise.
S 14:27 Allah fixes those who have believed with the fixed speech in the dunya life and in the hereafter. And Allah misguides the wrongdoers. And Allah does what he wills.
S 16:37 If you desire their guidance, Allah does not guide him whom he misguides and they have no helpers.
S 16:93 And had Allah willed he would have made you one nation but he misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. And you shall be asked about what you used to do.
S 17:97 And he whom Allah guides, he is the guided; and he whom Allah misguides, you will not find for them protectors instead of him. And we gather them on the day of resurrection on their faces--blind and dumb and deaf. Their shelter is Jahannam. Every time it abated we increased the blaze for them.
S 18:17 And you see the sun when it rose declining from their cave to the right and when it set departing from them to the left while they are in a gap thereof. That is of Allah’s signs. Him whom Allah guides, he is the guided and him whom he misguides, you will not find a guiding protector for him.
We might add S 22:3-4 And among people is he who argues about Allah without knowledge and follows every stubborn devil. It has been written upon him that he who has nominated him that he misguides him and he guides him to the torture of the blaze.
S 35:8 So is he whom the evil of his deed has been adorned for and he has seen it as good? So Allah misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. So do not let your soul go upon them in regrets. Allah is a knower of what they do.
S 39:23 Allah has sent down the best hadith, a book, resembling, a repeated thing. The skins of those who fear their lord shiver from it then their skins and their hearts relax at Allah’s dhikr. That is Allah’s guidance. He guides therewith whom he wills. And whom Allah misguides there is no guide for him.
Regarding 'dhikr', see my posts: [dhikr] [people-of-the-dhikr-1] [people-of-the-dhikr]
S 39:36 Is Allah not enough for his slave? And they frighten you with those instead of him. And he whom Allah misguides has no guide.
S 40:33 A day you turn away fleeing you have no defender against Allah. And him whom Allah misguides has no guide.
S 40:34 And Yusuf came to you before with the proofs but you did not cease in doubt about what he had brought you until when he perished you said: Allah will not raise a messenger after him. Thus Allah misguides him who is extravagant, a doubter.
S 40:73-74 Then it was said to them: Where is what you used to associate Instead of Allah? They said: They have strayed from us. Rather, we did not invoke anything before. Thus Allah misguides the kafirun.
S 42:44 And whom Allah misguides, he has no protector after him. And you see the wrongdoers when they have seen the torture saying: Is there any way to a reason?
S 42:46 And they had no protectors to help them instead of Allah. And whom Allah misguides, he has no way.
S 74:31 And we have not made the companions of the fire but angels. And we have not made their number except as fitnah for those who have disbelieved that those who were given the Book may be certain and that those who have believed may increase in faith and that those who were given the Book and the believers may not doubt and that those in whose hearts is disease and the kafirun may say: What did Allah want by this example? Thus Allah misguides whom he wills and guides whom he wills. And none knows your lord’s troops but him. And it is nothing but a remembrance for the human being.
Regarding fitnah, see my post: [fitnah] Regarding angels, see: [the-denizens-of-hell-men-or-angels]
There's no Jesus in the Koran, but Isa. Isa is another character invented by the false prophet of islam. He is the nephew of Moses. He was born 1250 before Jesus.
End of all debates here.
Jesus showed me in an open vision
I saw myself in the outer darkness and in front of this big statue!
I saw al-lah.
So no one can convince me that who al-lah is!
Thank you Jesus for this revelation!
Jesus Christ is Lord and coming soon are you all ready?
Hallelujah.
I thought satan himself is the best of deceivers!
But then al-lah in quran says that! Isn't it that demon who inspired Mohammad is in competition with satan! Is this a competition to drag more souls to hell!?
S 8:43-44 Allah made them appear in your dream as few. Had He made them appear as many, you would have faltered, and disputed over the matter. But Allah saved the situation. He knows what is within the hearts./ When you met, He made them appear as few in your eyes, and He made you appear fewer in their eyes, so that Allah may conclude a predetermined matter. To Allah all matters revert. (ITANI - Allah) Below is Judges 7
Gideon's Army of Three Hundred
1Then Jerubbaal, who is Gideon, and all the people that were with him, rose up early, and pitched beside the well of Harod: so that the host of the Midianites were on the north side of them, by the hill of Moreh, in the valley.
2And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me. 3Now therefore go to, proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whosoever is fearful and afraid, let him return and depart early from mount Gilead. And there returned of the people twenty and two thousand; and there remained ten thousand.
4And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go. 5So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink. 6And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water. 7And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place. 8So the people took victuals in their hand, and their trumpets: and he sent all the rest of Israel every man unto his tent, and retained those three hundred men: and the host of Midian was beneath him in the valley.
Gideon's Dream
9And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Arise, get thee down unto the host; for I have delivered it into thine hand. 10But if thou fear to go down, go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the host: 11And thou shalt hear what they say; and afterward shall thine hands be strengthened to go down unto the host. Then went he down with Phurah his servant unto the outside of the armed men that were in the host. 12And the Midianites and the Amalekites and all the children of the east lay along in the valley like grasshoppers for multitude; and their camels were without number, as the sand by the sea side for multitude. 13And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along. 14And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.
Gideon Defeats Midian
15And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian. 16And he divided the three hundred men into three companies, and he put a trumpet in every man's hand, with empty pitchers, and lamps within the pitchers. 17And he said unto them, Look on me, and do likewise: and, behold, when I come to the outside of the camp, it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do. 18When I blow with a trumpet, I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon.
19So Gideon, and the hundred men that were with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that were in their hands. 20And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. 21And they stood every man in his place round about the camp: and all the host ran, and cried, and fled. 22And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the LORD set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host: and the host fled to Bethshittah in Zererath, and to the border of Abelmeholah, unto Tabbath. 23And the men of Israel gathered themselves together out of Naphtali, and out of Asher, and out of all Manasseh, and pursued after the Midianites.
24And Gideon sent messengers throughout all mount Ephraim, saying, Come down against the Midianites, and take before them the waters unto Bethbarah and Jordan. Then all the men of Ephraim gathered themselves together, and took the waters unto Bethbarah and Jordan. 25And they took two princes of the Midianites, Oreb and Zeeb; and they slew Oreb upon the rock Oreb, and Zeeb they slew at the winepress of Zeeb, and pursued Midian, and brought the heads of Oreb and Zeeb to Gideon on the other side Jordan.
My post, Can You Will Unless Allah Wills?
S 6:111 And had we sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and we had gathered before them everything face to face, they would not believe except that Allah wills. But most of them are ignorant.
S 7:89 We would have fabricated a lie against Allah if we returned to your cult after when Allah had saved us from it. And it is not for us to return to it except that Allah our lord wills. Our lord has encompassed everything in knowledge. In Allah we have put our trust. Our lord, decide between us and our people in truth and you are the best of those who decide.
S 10:100 And it was not for a soul to believe except with Allah’s permission; and he puts rijs on those who do not comprehend.
S 12:76 So he began with their vessels before his brother’s vessel then brought it out from his brother’s vessel. Thus did we scheme for Yusuf. He would not take his brother in the king’s law but that Allah wills. We raise in degrees whom we will and learned above every possessor of knowledge.
S 74:56 And he does not remember except that Allah wills. He is the deserving of taqwa and the deserving of forgiveness.
S 76:30 And you do not will except that Allah wills. Allah was learned, wise.
S 81:29 But you do not will except that Allah, lord of the ‘alamin, wills.
Missed most of stream, but has Anam left Islam yet?
No. I am very ecumenical and I love the patient discussion but you simply cannot declare PBUH to a vile Antichrist as Anam does and be a Christian. The corpus of John’s writings make that impossible to get around. I will hopefully pray for that though!
As Woody Allen's Aunt Rose said, "You can't ride two horses with one behind." (Broadway Danny Rose). Anam is more in love with philosophy than any god. He's very, very deluded.
@@ImCarolB Well said. I am sure all of the ‘people of the chat’ are hoping he does surrender to the Lord above philosophy of men.
S 7:179 *And we have created for Jahannam many of jinn and man.* They have hearts they do not comprehend with and they have eyes they do not see with. And they have ears they do not hear with. Those are like cattle, rather, they are more astray. Those, they are the heedless.
Don’t Eve try to make Jesus clever there is no deceit in Him
Anam's argument is ridiculous: Christ was PROPHESIED, which would be the OPPOSITE of deception. God told us over & over again what was going to happen (that's what a prophecy is) & then He did was He promised to do...exact opposite of deception.
Maybe Jews, Romans etc misunderstood the prophecy, but that was NOT God's fault (Bible doesn't claim God tricked them into this misunderstanding; Quran claims Allah tricked them, so each book has different causality - Bible says THEY chose bad thing, but Quran says ALLAH made them choose bad thing; that's exact opposite).
Closest thing in Bible is that God hardened hearts of people who CHOSE evil; never suggests/implies that anyone was tricked or that were MADE for this, which is very different.
@@Alami-io5em Not what the Quran said - watch the video.
@@Alami-io5em First, which of the many versions of the Quran do you trust? There are more than 30 versions circulating today w/ differences in the razm, so which is the correct Quran? Why would you trust Hafs? He's a known liar, so why trust him? Second, how many Surahs should there be? Muhammad identified 4 reciters whom he taught believers to follow; 2 of them said the Quran was longer or shorter than the current versions - who was right? How do you know? Third, the Quran says that Allah will punish the non-believers by making them Black & he'll reward the believers by making them white, so being Black is a punishment? Is Allah a racist? Fourth, the Quran condemns Satan for refusing to bow down to Adam, but it also says Allah gave the order to angels & that Satan is not an angel, so why was he punished for refusing an order that wasn't given to him? Fifth, the Quran tells me to confirm the Quran with the Torah & Injil that we "have between our hands." Well, we have the Torah/Injil that they had between their hands at the time the Quran was revealed & it does NOT confirm the Quran. So was the Quran wrong? Or did Allah not realize we'd lost the real Torah/Injil? Why did he tell us to confirm the Quran using sources that no longer exist? Why did he describe those sources as being "between our hands" if they'd already been lost/corrupted? Is Allah an idiot or just a poor writer?
@@Alami-io5em Why does Quran tell us that Jesus's Muslim followers were be preserved & dominant when we have no trace of them & the vast vast majority of his followers believe that he's the Son of God (thereby rejecting his Islamic message)? Was Allah lying?
Huh. Allah sounds a lot like the deterministic Calvinist version of God, forcing men to do evil. 😏
I wasn’t in the entire stream (i had to leave) but it looks you and nor mary didn’t respond to my claim about the “makr” having meanings. Which would have destroyed your argument. And you gave out “proof” by giving false interpretation and cherry picking verses out of context.
The argument in no way centers on "makr only means..." And The claim it means something different was addressed multiple times throughout. I suggest you watch the entire stream - the evidence is in the first half, discussion in the second.
@@ReasonedAnswers then why didn’t you respond to my claim about the word “makr” meaning when I pointed that out 2 or 3 times during the stream? I doubt you mentioned it. Because it would’ve destroyed your entire argument.
I wish to talk with you one day Reasoned Awnsers 🫶🏻