Oh, boy! I was waiting for this one. One interesting thing to note is that both Chanters and Ciphers increase or maintain the same power level during a fight. Where most spellcasters run out of spells, and even martial classes have X per encounter or rest abilities, chanters and ciphers are always building their power up. I guess the best way to describe it is most classes are front loaded, while chanters and ciphers are back loaded.
I really like this class, it’s just such a unique concept for a class. Also, I’m not 100% sure on this, but taking Greater Focus as a talent actually increases your starting focus, allowing you to use more powerful abilities right at the start of a fight. So that’s pretty cool.
Another great video! Your take on Borrowed Instinct was surprising to me. To me, this spell is awesome self-buff first and foremost, with debuff effect being secondary and relatively unimportant. Detonate does not destroy loot. Also, for some reason description doesn't show any information on explosion damage (other than it having Crush damage type), so if anyone is wondering, it's 45-60 Crush, Accuracy (+5) vs. Reflex. Desintegrate doesn't affect target's gear either, thankfully.
Borrowed Instinct is fantastic because it simultaneously makes you better and your opponent worse. Even if that's only a minor amount, (and it's not, usually). Small advantages coupled with small disadvantages make for a marked improvement. And Detonate does not destroy loot. Disintegrate in Deadfire can. But I can't say I've ever seen it do so.
This is my class. It has a move called Anti-Pathetic field, and that is easily the dopest name for any offensive move in any game. Plus the roleplay aspects are insane with this class because it fits so well with the story of the game.
Cipher is an awesome class. When Pillars of Eternity were being made it was said probably by Josh Sawyer or somebody else from Obsidian that this class is an homage to psionic classes from D&D. I don't remember which D&D class exactly but it doesn't matter. By the way I don't understand why people don't like Grieving Mother. I find her very interesting even if she has the smallest amount of interactions. Her story is arguably the most tragic one of all the core companions and she has practically the most direct and obvious reason to end Waidwen's Legacy.
@@SlanderedGaming my personal favorite was Durance, who's a crazy Zealot at odds with his faith, but Grieving Mother was not far behind in ranking. I would say that it's almost ex aequo first place for both of them.
Great video as always man. Ciphers are easily my favorite class in the series. Side note can I get a link to the portrait you use for the thumbnail. Been looking for a good black man portrait to use for my next cipher playthrough in Deadfire😅
LOL Absolutely! I googled "Black Warlock Art" and went down a rabbit hole until I came across this picture. www.pinterest.com/pin/3413-likes-40-comments-nubiamancy-nubiamancy-on-instagram-echo-greystorm-illustrated--331085010099177645/
Thanks for these great videos! I haven’t played Pillars of Eternity part 1 yet but am enjoying the heck out of part 2 currently. I plan to try a Monk build for when I go back and play part 1.👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Draining whip takes priority over biting whip. The focus generation increase is much larger. Don't forget, damage bonuses stack additively, not multiplicatively. If you have 20 strength and a fine weapon, for example, your damage with biting whip is going from 145% to 165%, which is only a 13.8% increase, and this is hardly making outlandish assumptions about your damage modifiers. A 33% increase in focus generation is always a 33% increase. Even at early game, this is going to do a lot more for you. Late game, it will be vastly better, but you will definitely take both, so its a moot point. The fact that abilities have low focus requirements is a moot point, as spamming spells is generally a stronger option than auto attacking. Also, making a cipher a front line fighter doesnt lead to faster focus generation. Being able to max perception, dexterity and intelligence and boost might by being able to dump con and resolve and not having to close the gap to land your attacks will mean a ranged cipher will generate focus more quickly, particularly at the start of a fight and being first to the punch with CC effects is crucial.
Think i was a berath priest/black jacket which allowed me to be a jack of all trades but also tied me specifically to the god that kept summoning me for roleplaying purposes
I know this is a bit offtopic but how much of theese videos is aplicable to Pillars of Eternity II? I finished the first game last year and just buyed the sequel and I think is the next RPG I'm gonna play.
Much of the mechanics are completely changed around for PoE 2. That being said Cipher is still a fantastic option in that game both from a mechanical and roleplaying standpoint. I will do class rankings for that game when this list has been completed.
@@SlanderedGaming Cypher was such a weird class I just had to play it and loved it. Specially because the rollplaying aspect was phenomenal (at least for PoE 1 campaign, I hope is similar for the sequel). I think I'll go cypher again. Thanks for your videos, man. Keep up the good work.
RP cipher is pretty good but as a class ? Not so much in my opinion , is a bad hybrid caster rogue class , I mean yes you can spam spell without resting , but the strongest ones are only offensive and so any other class would do better. With multiclass is another world , with ranger (I play the ghost 1 because I hate companions ) multi shot you will deal tons of DMG and always be full of power .
Tried a cipher once; it's core problem being the same as the chanter as far as I'm concerned. If you don't pay attention to the EFFECTS of the spells you pick and understand mechanically what they can offer you and how to apply them - you can REALLY bork your attempted build. It's a READ heavy class, for experienced players. However if you can get it to work, thematically it's awesome. For me the implementation of a melee focused caster to power the spells was interesting, but it has the same flaw as with the chanter's songs. You will maybe, MAYBE see one actual spell cast per combat encounter; and good luck getting the higher focus costs to go off. If you want to solo the game, this and the chanter are probably your better bets outside of a straight mage. However that would be the one way really that you're going to have to care about the spells you do pick. Because more often than not you'll be working that soul whip in melee combat TRYING to get enough juice to get the awesome sauce to pop. - The one feat that's designed to really help you get more out of the whip in that regard, doesn't actually do that much to make it more likely you can use your spells. So at the end you're like a bastardized version of Psylocke, but less hot.
I hope this doesn't sound weird but you have a great speaking voice. You sound like an announcer on some informative television/radio show, for children.
Uh whoops two months late... Better late than never right? So Cipher is great! Great class fantasy and flavor, great reactivity and a powerful kit if spells with a variety of offensive, buffs and especially debuffs. The manipulation of the soul and the psionic flair the class has isn't especially common in fantasy, only Dark Sun comes to mind for me personally. Its hard to argue the Cipher isn't the best choice for a Watcher and spells being per encounter instead of per rest gives the class an edge over its peers. All in all its a great choice and one of my favorites of the series.
Totally agree. I really like this video because he goes into *why* he picks or doesn't pick each talent... I'd love the same treatment on attribute, race, and background (vs other guides that simply tell what to pick with no justification).
Ciphers feel like the most story appropriate class as well. It just fits the Watcher so well.
Yup the roleplaying aspect is a perfect match.
Oh, boy! I was waiting for this one.
One interesting thing to note is that both Chanters and Ciphers increase or maintain the same power level during a fight. Where most spellcasters run out of spells, and even martial classes have X per encounter or rest abilities, chanters and ciphers are always building their power up. I guess the best way to describe it is most classes are front loaded, while chanters and ciphers are back loaded.
Yup that's a great call out. Part of the reason I enjoyed Cipher so much.
I really like this class, it’s just such a unique concept for a class. Also, I’m not 100% sure on this, but taking Greater Focus as a talent actually increases your starting focus, allowing you to use more powerful abilities right at the start of a fight. So that’s pretty cool.
Yup it's very useful just not at first.
Another great video!
Your take on Borrowed Instinct was surprising to me. To me, this spell is awesome self-buff first and foremost, with debuff effect being secondary and relatively unimportant.
Detonate does not destroy loot. Also, for some reason description doesn't show any information on explosion damage (other than it having Crush damage type), so if anyone is wondering, it's 45-60 Crush, Accuracy (+5) vs. Reflex.
Desintegrate doesn't affect target's gear either, thankfully.
Thank you for confirming! I couldn't find anything that clarified that part.
Borrowed Instinct is fantastic because it simultaneously makes you better and your opponent worse. Even if that's only a minor amount, (and it's not, usually). Small advantages coupled with small disadvantages make for a marked improvement.
And Detonate does not destroy loot. Disintegrate in Deadfire can. But I can't say I've ever seen it do so.
This is my class.
It has a move called Anti-Pathetic field, and that is easily the dopest name for any offensive move in any game.
Plus the roleplay aspects are insane with this class because it fits so well with the story of the game.
Absolutely agree Cipher is amazing.
Cipher is an awesome class. When Pillars of Eternity were being made it was said probably by Josh Sawyer or somebody else from Obsidian that this class is an homage to psionic classes from D&D. I don't remember which D&D class exactly but it doesn't matter. By the way I don't understand why people don't like Grieving Mother. I find her very interesting even if she has the smallest amount of interactions. Her story is arguably the most tragic one of all the core companions and she has practically the most direct and obvious reason to end Waidwen's Legacy.
She ranked number 1 on my PoE party member list. Incredible story.
@@SlanderedGaming my personal favorite was Durance, who's a crazy Zealot at odds with his faith, but Grieving Mother was not far behind in ranking. I would say that it's almost ex aequo first place for both of them.
I can't wait to play as a Cypher for my first ever playthrough of a CRPG. I hope using their abilities isn't too cumbersome on console.
Nope I played this game on console and it works just fine.
@@SlanderedGaming wonderful, thank you for the info.
I love this series, thank you.
My pleasure!
Great video as always man. Ciphers are easily my favorite class in the series. Side note can I get a link to the portrait you use for the thumbnail. Been looking for a good black man portrait to use for my next cipher playthrough in Deadfire😅
LOL Absolutely! I googled "Black Warlock Art" and went down a rabbit hole until I came across this picture. www.pinterest.com/pin/3413-likes-40-comments-nubiamancy-nubiamancy-on-instagram-echo-greystorm-illustrated--331085010099177645/
Thanks for these great videos! I haven’t played Pillars of Eternity part 1 yet but am enjoying the heck out of part 2 currently. I plan to try a Monk build for when I go back and play part 1.👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Awesome! Glad you have been enjoying the content!
If the Chanter was the 2nd most original class ever invented in an CRPG, then the Cypher has to the 1st!
Obsidian did a fantastic job setting up the classes.
Story integration, damage, and CC in one class that runs forever. Great class.
Mental Binding has saved me so many times.
"Like a gloooveee!"
Ace says it best :)
I forgot about that damn movie. 😂
My favorite class in the game by far, and a blast to play.
Yup I really enjoyed it.
Draining whip takes priority over biting whip. The focus generation increase is much larger. Don't forget, damage bonuses stack additively, not multiplicatively. If you have 20 strength and a fine weapon, for example, your damage with biting whip is going from 145% to 165%, which is only a 13.8% increase, and this is hardly making outlandish assumptions about your damage modifiers. A 33% increase in focus generation is always a 33% increase. Even at early game, this is going to do a lot more for you. Late game, it will be vastly better, but you will definitely take both, so its a moot point. The fact that abilities have low focus requirements is a moot point, as spamming spells is generally a stronger option than auto attacking.
Also, making a cipher a front line fighter doesnt lead to faster focus generation. Being able to max perception, dexterity and intelligence and boost might by being able to dump con and resolve and not having to close the gap to land your attacks will mean a ranged cipher will generate focus more quickly, particularly at the start of a fight and being first to the punch with CC effects is crucial.
Hey haven't seen you comment for a minute! Hope things are going well. Good points all the way around.
This is my go to class for poe 1 and 2. Poe 2 mostly cause if you multiclass with chanter(beguiler and troubadour) and its bananas
I keep hearing about that. If I ever play PoE 2 again I'll definitely try it.
Think i was a berath priest/black jacket which allowed me to be a jack of all trades but also tied me specifically to the god that kept summoning me for roleplaying purposes
Thank you for the work that you do
It's my pleasure!
POE is the only crpg in which I have a clear favorite: the Cipher. In any other, my preferences changes.
I know this is a bit offtopic but how much of theese videos is aplicable to Pillars of Eternity II? I finished the first game last year and just buyed the sequel and I think is the next RPG I'm gonna play.
Much of the mechanics are completely changed around for PoE 2. That being said Cipher is still a fantastic option in that game both from a mechanical and roleplaying standpoint. I will do class rankings for that game when this list has been completed.
@@SlanderedGaming Cypher was such a weird class I just had to play it and loved it. Specially because the rollplaying aspect was phenomenal (at least for PoE 1 campaign, I hope is similar for the sequel). I think I'll go cypher again.
Thanks for your videos, man. Keep up the good work.
RP cipher is pretty good but as a class ? Not so much in my opinion , is a bad hybrid caster rogue class , I mean yes you can spam spell without resting , but the strongest ones are only offensive and so any other class would do better.
With multiclass is another world , with ranger (I play the ghost 1 because I hate companions ) multi shot you will deal tons of DMG and always be full of power .
Mental Binding and Amplified Wave are more so debuff as opposed to offensive spells and they are insanely powerful.
wouldn't the class ranking sections be better placed at the beginning of the videos?
Hmmmm I felt like it made more sense at the end to provide the supporting evidence for my ranking.
Tried a cipher once; it's core problem being the same as the chanter as far as I'm concerned. If you don't pay attention to the EFFECTS of the spells you pick and understand mechanically what they can offer you and how to apply them - you can REALLY bork your attempted build. It's a READ heavy class, for experienced players. However if you can get it to work, thematically it's awesome. For me the implementation of a melee focused caster to power the spells was interesting, but it has the same flaw as with the chanter's songs. You will maybe, MAYBE see one actual spell cast per combat encounter; and good luck getting the higher focus costs to go off. If you want to solo the game, this and the chanter are probably your better bets outside of a straight mage. However that would be the one way really that you're going to have to care about the spells you do pick. Because more often than not you'll be working that soul whip in melee combat TRYING to get enough juice to get the awesome sauce to pop. - The one feat that's designed to really help you get more out of the whip in that regard, doesn't actually do that much to make it more likely you can use your spells. So at the end you're like a bastardized version of Psylocke, but less hot.
Cipher definitely requires some knowledge and patience to make the class work but when it does it's absolutely glorious.
I hope this doesn't sound weird but you have a great speaking voice. You sound like an announcer on some informative television/radio show, for children.
LOL Thank you!
Uh whoops two months late... Better late than never right? So Cipher is great! Great class fantasy and flavor, great reactivity and a powerful kit if spells with a variety of offensive, buffs and especially debuffs.
The manipulation of the soul and the psionic flair the class has isn't especially common in fantasy, only Dark Sun comes to mind for me personally. Its hard to argue the Cipher isn't the best choice for a Watcher and spells being per encounter instead of per rest gives the class an edge over its peers.
All in all its a great choice and one of my favorites of the series.
S+ class if only for the defensive mindweb power, which was so overpowered it got severely nerfed in POE2.
Yeah that ability is insane if used correctly.
Played cypher till the big city and got bored by it . Restarted as a evil priest and enjoyed it very much
Oh yeah Priest is amazing in this game.
I disagree with your rating of amplified thrust. Its fast speed and crazy high damage make it one of the Cipher's best powers. Good video though.
Personally, I feel like this video would’ve been or would be way more popular if they actually went over stats for the class.
What do you mean when you say stats?
@@SlanderedGaming I suppose it’s technically “Attributes” but it’s all really the same thing in my opinion.
Totally agree. I really like this video because he goes into *why* he picks or doesn't pick each talent... I'd love the same treatment on attribute, race, and background (vs other guides that simply tell what to pick with no justification).
You skipped attributes