Oh man! You mentioning/hinting at the nudist beach in Hook of Holland; I spent so much time trying to sneak a peek there as an 10-year-old. There I discovered that the idea of it was way more thrilling than reality.
I'm not sure that the rise of camera phones and the internet is wholly responsible for the decline in nudity and toplessness on beaches. Lots of people had cameras before someone had the crazy idea of putting them in phones. If going topless had become very acceptable then why would it then be unacceptable to see a woman's breasts on line. By the standards of the early to mid 20th century bikinis are very immodest but there hasn't been a move away from wearing them. My theory is that the swimwear industry, fearing that if trends in the 1980s had continued, then the market for swimsuits would collapse, launched a subtle campaign to talk up the idea that tops should be worn.
@@AlanRPaine The online nudity rules are determined by Americans, not by Germans or Dutch .... But apart from the phone cam thread, people gradually became more prude again ...
Its never children who have a problem with naked people. Its always the adults…… So anyone who states that as a justification for their complaining, says everything about themselves.
I have a good reason for not wanting to be nude. It's that I'll scar poor people with my pale ass lumpy body. That's why I'd be uncomfortable at a nude beach. But if you grew up in a place where nudity was your reality all life long, I suspect you're far less uncomfortable than I'd be, and even as a kid, you'd not bat an eye at it.
Growing up in The Netherlands it was normal to see females topless including sisters-in-law but now that I live in The USA, I can see that it may be a tat "weird" or something they're not used to even though there are places in America that have those places.
According to Dutch law, being naked in the Netherlands is allowed every where, as long as it is not visible from streets or roads/where traffic drives. Some other exceptions are, if local governments forbid it in certain area's.
I appreciate hearing about your experience, as a Dutch person I don't know of anyone who goes to nude beaches even if I do know of enough people who will sunbathe topless. I'm thankful for the way these conversations help to normalize nudity. Note on mierenneuker: some years later someone _did_ get fined for saying this to a cop! Which really cemented the derogatory scale on it I suppose because they very much went by the context in which it was said in that case
If you like Flevonatuur, you will love Le Couderc in Nausannes France, it is run by third generation Dutch and frequented by several Dutch actors and musicians. There is an open podium every wednesday. There are Dutch snacks, but also a quite good restaurant, and a very cosy bar. It has a sauna, and a pretty nice swimming pool.
Yes the chance of having good weather is much higher than in the Netherlands. In addition to Dutch, there are English, French, Belgian and occasionally German guests. You can take a nice walk on the grounds
I’ve been to the 4 legal C/O beaches in Florida. Haulover is cool but also odd. There are people of all ages there but definitely dominated by older people. Haulover has more creepers than the others but it’s not ridiculous and nobody seems to even care. The beach is well maintained and easily accessible. Blind creek Beach is very chill. It is a little out of the way but not terrible. Most people stay near the entrance to the beach but you can also get away from people if you choose. This a a fairly social beach, people of all ages but mostly older. The beach is very clean as there is a local club that helps maintain the trash and all. The beach can be shelly at times. There are no facilities but that may change soon. There is the occasional creeper but it has never been uncomfortable. Playalinda is definitely a PIA to get to but it is very chill and relaxing. Very flat and easy to walk the beach. My experience has been it’s very easy to get away from people if you want. The few times I’ve been there, most people keep to themselves, not much socializing. I’ve never seen a creeper there. I’ve seen all ages there. Apollo is the most out of the way and the least amount of people. Occasionally you will see a bunch of people gather when there is a rocket launch. The beach is narrow and difficult to walk because it’s steep. It can be very relaxing to just enjoy the sun by yourselves. Never been uncomfortable there with creepers. This was my first experience with being nude in public and it was definitely an easy way to do it the first time because of how chill it is. If anyone is in the area these places are well worth checking out for yourself.
My own experience at the "Maasvlakte" nudist beach, is that people obey rules and that there is a good deal of social control among visitors. You can leave your wallet in your bag and go for a swim, no problem. One reason is that beaches have been closed in the past by authorities, because of people violating rules, so we speak out when we notice violations. Also, people at nude beaches keep their beach clean and all deposit their waste in waste baskets. Not always like that on regular beaches!
To smoothly transit to a similar topic: Dutch/Northern European Nude Sauna. Though the summer has passed, it's maybe an idea to visit a sauna to see how your expectations or views get confirmed/changed here? How do people walk around and take notice (or not) differently? Summer is nice as you can lay in the sun somewhere. So maybe for the winter season it's a better idea to visit a large sauna. Not many like that in the Netherlands that I know. Maybe others know of tips? As I live in Flanders I know Thermae Boetfort (a small castle with hotel, but best in summer) and Aachen(Aken) at a crossroads between Netherlands/Belgium/Germany which would be my 1st tip at the moment. Large enough and with the three cultures quite interesting.
I would even argue that the winter is the best time for the sauna! That way you get even more of the hot/cold experience. I used to go to the sauna regularly with my family when i was younger, and i mainly remember going in the winter! I can't imagine going in summer 🥵 The sauna we used to go to unfortunately closed 2 years ago (Suomi in Hoorn)
I'm surprised calling someone "mierenneuker" came up in court, but if you want to play it safe, you can also use "muggenzifter", although for me it is not exactly the same. We do have a lot of expressions with animals.
@@buncharted2 Well in that case, all is forgiven 😄 Keep up the wonderfull conversations with this new concept. Loved your Breda-vid btw, not me being biased at all 😜
Those microphones are much better btw. I have been a naturist all my life (I am 75) and been going to mixed sauna's as long I have been in this country (nearly 60 years). I never think about taking off my clothes I just do it. Once you stop and think you allow all the social pressures in and why should you. I do agree American prudishness along with so many other things American are affecting European norms. The "mierenneuker" means more than nitpicker. It has a sexual connotation which the English does not. It is far sharper.
As a Dutch naturist I welcome you 😂 I was introduced to a naturist area by a friend and liked it instantly. When my girlfriend got too many looks and whistles on a regular beach we went to the nudist area. And discovered no one looks ar you and everything is fine. Maybe we'll meet each another at Flevo natuur one day 😂
Michelle's guesses for the Dutch word of the week were pretty good with the information she had, but it's not really fair that she always has to show how her mind works. You should alternate and let Alex guess one Michelle found as well. I bet his guesses are much worse. 😂
Last time I was visiting Nederland, I was unable to go full monty around the house I was staying in. So I would of course the bare minimum. Let me tell you that narrow Dutch stairs and a sarong don't always go well together.
2 nude beaches in Zeeland: Domburg and Oost Kapelle (Oranjezon). The latter requires a 20 minute walk through the dunes! You can't reach it by train though...
Have you ever heard of the World Naked Bike Ride? They also do it in Amsterdam, and while I would personally never do it, I love that our culture allows that kinda thing
@ haha I’m gonna pay attention to that for now on 🤣 I’m a Dutch living in Rotterdam (and I don’t like Amsterdam) but we always heard about this event on the news so I just wanna know their thoughts on this
Nudists aren't all home nudist. If you want to go to a busy naaktstrand you should try Bussloo in a warm weekend. It is quite large and the busiest inland nude beach.
People in this comment section should Google Hippie Hollow if you haven't already. You'll 100% find less rocks at Stonehenge than this one and it's the only clothing-optional public beach in the *ENTIRE* state of Texas. The. Entire. State. WTF
The Dutch can be realy uptight if it comes down to being nude and other "adult activities". Especially in the rural and bible belt areas. That is why there is a counter movement of being more accepting/open and free (so therefore also nudist/naturists) that is more in the randstad area
Ik dacht dat, (wat ben je een azijnpisser) er ook wel bij hoort 🙂Was weer leuk Michelle en Alex even een andere topic. Tot de volgende vlog op channel ,Buncharted 1?
The idea of a vlam tosti is solid tho 😳 I had them recently for the first time and wasn't impressed either 😂 But I'm definitely considering making a better version myself. Shouldn't be too hard? Spicy ground meat with some better cheese and bread 😁
To me this podcast was quite interesting for a couple of reasons. To start off, I'm not certain what kind of ambiance you're trying to achieve. I'm saying that reacting on the remark made that Michelle shouldn't interrupt when she did. But when, and if, you would be in an informal, say bar like, chat that interruption is the ignition to a consecutive discussion/argumentation which is very pleasant, so in that regard I like the interruptions. The second reason is the topic nudism/naturism. I personally would like to get my clothes off but my brain (or upraising for that matter) stops me. Being a male person there is that unconscious threshold of a possible visible arousment when being in a naked environment. But on the other hand I don't have any problem of other people being as comfortable as they can be. I think I have been conditioned too much with old social thoughts. Third thing is your word of the week (or whatever)... I would say that we , the Dutch in general, are champions in miereneuken and yet don't care at all. It feels we are very controversial in our behaviour. Keep it up, i love your topics.
If this lifestyle is important to you, then you must visit Spain. Its in an entirely higher level than anything in the US. Caribbean grade beaches. And being nude in Spain is legal, everywhere.
I think what you're "doing wrong" is that you compare the vlam-tosti to vlammetjes, while the people recommending the vlam-tosti probably compare it to an ordinary ham-kaas tosti. Basically, you set the bar too high.
I say if you are comfortable seeing and being seen naked by strangers (especially of the opposite sex and varying ages), and you actually go nude in situations where you see and are seen, then you are a nudist. But that can be very culturally contextual. If you go naked in a locker room, you wouldn't consider yourself a nudist. I bet people who go to co-ed saunas in Europe don't consider themselves nudists even though they are naked around people of both sexes. "I'm going to sauna. At sauna you wear no clothes."
Nudism = nude in warm weather, mostly people that go the nude beach (naaktstrand) and not much more. Naturism = is a lifestyle and a philosophy of living, you want to be naked as much as possible. These people go to special campsites and holidayparks to do basically everything nude.
26:19 There are a number of reasons why European people are less comfortable with being nude in public. The first reason is the harassment by non-European male immigrants that go berserk when they see an exposed woman's nipple, the second reason is that American influencers tell their followers that nudity is dirty, obscene and gross and should be kept in the shower and sadly a lot of Europeans are followers of these people, the third reason is that European youths are becoming more conservative and they're abandoning the old culture of "Let it all hang out" from the seventies. This was to be expected. History has taught us that after each period of enlightenment, freedom and progress, there comes a period where morality is stricter, less free and more restrained and conservative.
But vlamtostis are great 😢 I've eaten SO many of those in my life, with some Hela currysauce to dip them in. Also, don't cook them in an airfryer, get yourself a proper tosti ijzer!
In the US you're being thought that a naked body is dirty. In Europe it's the opposite.
I do not care if you are nudist. There is nothing wrong with it
Oh man! You mentioning/hinting at the nudist beach in Hook of Holland; I spent so much time trying to sneak a peek there as an 10-year-old. There I discovered that the idea of it was way more thrilling than reality.
26:00 Yes, I can confirm that. I grew up in Germany in the 70s and 80s and there were lots of women on every beach who were at least topless.
And around 85 million less camera's 😅
And trillion less naked films and pictures online
I'm not sure that the rise of camera phones and the internet is wholly responsible for the decline in nudity and toplessness on beaches. Lots of people had cameras before someone had the crazy idea of putting them in phones. If going topless had become very acceptable then why would it then be unacceptable to see a woman's breasts on line. By the standards of the early to mid 20th century bikinis are very immodest but there hasn't been a move away from wearing them. My theory is that the swimwear industry, fearing that if trends in the 1980s had continued, then the market for swimsuits would collapse, launched a subtle campaign to talk up the idea that tops should be worn.
@@AlanRPaine The online nudity rules are determined by Americans, not by Germans or Dutch ....
But apart from the phone cam thread, people gradually became more prude again ...
@@AlanRPaine
I think it might have more to do with a change in culture due to the import of a certain religion.
Its never children who have a problem with naked people. Its always the adults…… So anyone who states that as a justification for their complaining, says everything about themselves.
I have a good reason for not wanting to be nude. It's that I'll scar poor people with my pale ass lumpy body. That's why I'd be uncomfortable at a nude beach. But if you grew up in a place where nudity was your reality all life long, I suspect you're far less uncomfortable than I'd be, and even as a kid, you'd not bat an eye at it.
I really like the outfit Michelle is wearing in this podcast!
I was very curious about the vlammetjes tosti myself but I'll take your word for it! A vlammetjes bapao is actually really good too.
omg
definitely need to get that asap!!!!
Growing up in The Netherlands it was normal to see females topless including sisters-in-law but now that I live in The USA, I can see that it may be a tat "weird" or something they're not used to even though there are places in America that have those places.
According to Dutch law, being naked in the Netherlands is allowed every where, as long as it is not visible from streets or roads/where traffic drives.
Some other exceptions are, if local governments forbid it in certain area's.
I appreciate hearing about your experience, as a Dutch person I don't know of anyone who goes to nude beaches even if I do know of enough people who will sunbathe topless. I'm thankful for the way these conversations help to normalize nudity.
Note on mierenneuker: some years later someone _did_ get fined for saying this to a cop! Which really cemented the derogatory scale on it I suppose because they very much went by the context in which it was said in that case
If you like Flevonatuur, you will love Le Couderc in Nausannes France, it is run by third generation Dutch and frequented by several Dutch actors and musicians. There is an open podium every wednesday. There are Dutch snacks, but also a quite good restaurant, and a very cosy bar. It has a sauna, and a pretty nice swimming pool.
Yes the chance of having good weather is much higher than in the Netherlands. In addition to Dutch, there are English, French, Belgian and occasionally German guests. You can take a nice walk on the grounds
My favourite Dutch word is "ouwehoeren". You guys are great at that 😅
16:33 And constantly using your measuring tape. 😊
I’ve been to the 4 legal C/O beaches in Florida. Haulover is cool but also odd. There are people of all ages there but definitely dominated by older people. Haulover has more creepers than the others but it’s not ridiculous and nobody seems to even care. The beach is well maintained and easily accessible.
Blind creek Beach is very chill. It is a little out of the way but not terrible. Most people stay near the entrance to the beach but you can also get away from people if you choose. This a a fairly social beach, people of all ages but mostly older. The beach is very clean as there is a local club that helps maintain the trash and all. The beach can be shelly at times. There are no facilities but that may change soon. There is the occasional creeper but it has never been uncomfortable.
Playalinda is definitely a PIA to get to but it is very chill and relaxing. Very flat and easy to walk the beach. My experience has been it’s very easy to get away from people if you want. The few times I’ve been there, most people keep to themselves, not much socializing. I’ve never seen a creeper there. I’ve seen all ages there.
Apollo is the most out of the way and the least amount of people. Occasionally you will see a bunch of people gather when there is a rocket launch. The beach is narrow and difficult to walk because it’s steep. It can be very relaxing to just enjoy the sun by yourselves. Never been uncomfortable there with creepers. This was my first experience with being nude in public and it was definitely an easy way to do it the first time because of how chill it is.
If anyone is in the area these places are well worth checking out for yourself.
My own experience at the "Maasvlakte" nudist beach, is that people obey rules and that there is a good deal of social control among visitors. You can leave your wallet in your bag and go for a swim, no problem. One reason is that beaches have been closed in the past by authorities, because of people violating rules, so we speak out when we notice violations. Also, people at nude beaches keep their beach clean and all deposit their waste in waste baskets. Not always like that on regular beaches!
Michelle! This hairstyle is so cute on you 🥰
To smoothly transit to a similar topic: Dutch/Northern European Nude Sauna. Though the summer has passed, it's maybe an idea to visit a sauna to see how your expectations or views get confirmed/changed here? How do people walk around and take notice (or not) differently? Summer is nice as you can lay in the sun somewhere. So maybe for the winter season it's a better idea to visit a large sauna. Not many like that in the Netherlands that I know. Maybe others know of tips? As I live in Flanders I know Thermae Boetfort (a small castle with hotel, but best in summer) and Aachen(Aken) at a crossroads between Netherlands/Belgium/Germany which would be my 1st tip at the moment. Large enough and with the three cultures quite interesting.
I would even argue that the winter is the best time for the sauna! That way you get even more of the hot/cold experience. I used to go to the sauna regularly with my family when i was younger, and i mainly remember going in the winter! I can't imagine going in summer 🥵 The sauna we used to go to unfortunately closed 2 years ago (Suomi in Hoorn)
Fort Resort Beemster, is a good one
You have a nice clear voice now. Nice to listen
.
I'm surprised calling someone "mierenneuker" came up in court, but if you want to play it safe, you can also use "muggenzifter", although for me it is not exactly the same. We do have a lot of expressions with animals.
And there’s also “van een mug een olifant maken” which roughly means the same as well. Making a big deal out of something small.
Michelle, love your side braid! Nice touch, a shame Alex didnt mention this. As an Alex myself I hereby apoligize for my namesake.
haha you know we're together when we're not filming too, right? 😉
@@buncharted2 Well in that case, all is forgiven 😄 Keep up the wonderfull conversations with this new concept. Loved your Breda-vid btw, not me being biased at all 😜
Those microphones are much better btw.
I have been a naturist all my life (I am 75) and been going to mixed sauna's as long I have been in this country (nearly 60 years). I never think about taking off my clothes I just do it. Once you stop and think you allow all the social pressures in and why should you. I do agree American prudishness along with so many other things American are affecting European norms.
The "mierenneuker" means more than nitpicker. It has a sexual connotation which the English does not. It is far sharper.
As a Dutch naturist I welcome you 😂
I was introduced to a naturist area by a friend and liked it instantly.
When my girlfriend got too many looks and whistles on a regular beach we went to the nudist area. And discovered no one looks ar you and everything is fine.
Maybe we'll meet each another at Flevo natuur one day 😂
Michelle's guesses for the Dutch word of the week were pretty good with the information she had, but it's not really fair that she always has to show how her mind works. You should alternate and let Alex guess one Michelle found as well. I bet his guesses are much worse. 😂
Last time I was visiting Nederland, I was unable to go full monty around the house I was staying in. So I would of course the bare minimum. Let me tell you that narrow Dutch stairs and a sarong don't always go well together.
Try practicing the 'ui' ('kruidnootjes') en 'eu' sounds by listening to native speakers. 'Neuker' isn't pronounced like 'nuker'.
2 nude beaches in Zeeland: Domburg and Oost Kapelle (Oranjezon). The latter requires a 20 minute walk through the dunes!
You can't reach it by train though...
Have you ever heard of the World Naked Bike Ride? They also do it in Amsterdam, and while I would personally never do it, I love that our culture allows that kinda thing
When there is the word Amsterdam in the comment. The Buncharted do never react. 😂 They lived a few months in Rotterdam. Get it?
@ haha I’m gonna pay attention to that for now on 🤣
I’m a Dutch living in Rotterdam (and I don’t like Amsterdam) but we always heard about this event on the news so I just wanna know their thoughts on this
Keep Austin weird? The slogan for Portland, Oregon is Keep Portland weird! I once participated in the PDX World Naked Bike Ride!
Im lucky to live in spain and somewhat outback, so me and my friends can be naked when we want on different rivers or lakes😅
Nudists aren't all home nudist. If you want to go to a busy naaktstrand you should try Bussloo in a warm weekend. It is quite large and the busiest inland nude beach.
the vlam tosti is probably older then vlammetje, we had the tosti's in 1990 there about in our studentbar
People in this comment section should Google Hippie Hollow if you haven't already. You'll 100% find less rocks at Stonehenge than this one and it's the only clothing-optional public beach in the *ENTIRE* state of Texas. The. Entire. State. WTF
😂😂😂
The Dutch can be realy uptight if it comes down to being nude and other "adult activities". Especially in the rural and bible belt areas. That is why there is a counter movement of being more accepting/open and free (so therefore also nudist/naturists) that is more in the randstad area
Ik dacht dat, (wat ben je een azijnpisser) er ook wel bij hoort 🙂Was weer leuk Michelle en Alex even een andere topic. Tot de volgende vlog op channel ,Buncharted 1?
The idea of a vlam tosti is solid tho 😳 I had them recently for the first time and wasn't impressed either 😂 But I'm definitely considering making a better version myself. Shouldn't be too hard? Spicy ground meat with some better cheese and bread 😁
Get the bapao instead if you like the vlammetjes filling you'll like it!
Ground meat and cheese to your liking and put sambal (also to your liking) in between.
I think you should explore the possibilities in Germany (FKK = Frei Körper Kultur).
LOL at that word of the day. 😂
To me this podcast was quite interesting for a couple of reasons. To start off, I'm not certain what kind of ambiance you're trying to achieve. I'm saying that reacting on the remark made that Michelle shouldn't interrupt when she did. But when, and if, you would be in an informal, say bar like, chat that interruption is the ignition to a consecutive discussion/argumentation which is very pleasant, so in that regard I like the interruptions. The second reason is the topic nudism/naturism. I personally would like to get my clothes off but my brain (or upraising for that matter) stops me. Being a male person there is that unconscious threshold of a possible visible arousment when being in a naked environment. But on the other hand I don't have any problem of other people being as comfortable as they can be. I think I have been conditioned too much with old social thoughts. Third thing is your word of the week (or whatever)... I would say that we , the Dutch in general, are champions in miereneuken and yet don't care at all. It feels we are very controversial in our behaviour. Keep it up, i love your topics.
Im just glad Americans do know the difference between naked and sexuality.
To be honest "mierenneuker" is not a terrible curse word. I think its in the same ballpark as nitpicker. Maybe "muggenzifter" is a bit closer... 🤔
🏖️In de 80 jaren was topless normaal 🦚in iedere badplaats strand nu zie ik niemand meer topless Groningen 🏖️
If this lifestyle is important to you, then you must visit Spain. Its in an entirely higher level than anything in the US. Caribbean grade beaches. And being nude in Spain is legal, everywhere.
Vraagje doe eens een test over soda drinks usa vs Europa
I think what you're "doing wrong" is that you compare the vlam-tosti to vlammetjes, while the people recommending the vlam-tosti probably compare it to an ordinary ham-kaas tosti.
Basically, you set the bar too high.
haha, fair enough
Here's one...bakkeleien or kibbelen.
I say if you are comfortable seeing and being seen naked by strangers (especially of the opposite sex and varying ages), and you actually go nude in situations where you see and are seen, then you are a nudist.
But that can be very culturally contextual. If you go naked in a locker room, you wouldn't consider yourself a nudist. I bet people who go to co-ed saunas in Europe don't consider themselves nudists even though they are naked around people of both sexes. "I'm going to sauna. At sauna you wear no clothes."
Nudism = nude in warm weather, mostly people that go the nude beach (naaktstrand) and not much more.
Naturism = is a lifestyle and a philosophy of living, you want to be naked as much as possible. These people go to special campsites and holidayparks to do basically everything nude.
I think you are a great comic couple....
26:19 There are a number of reasons why European people are less comfortable with being nude in public. The first reason is the harassment by non-European male immigrants that go berserk when they see an exposed woman's nipple, the second reason is that American influencers tell their followers that nudity is dirty, obscene and gross and should be kept in the shower and sadly a lot of Europeans are followers of these people, the third reason is that European youths are becoming more conservative and they're abandoning the old culture of "Let it all hang out" from the seventies. This was to be expected. History has taught us that after each period of enlightenment, freedom and progress, there comes a period where morality is stricter, less free and more restrained and conservative.
As a Dutchie who has spent many summers on European beaches, I have seen all kinds of boobs, bumps and lumps 😂 It is just natural. Noone cares.
Instead of a vlam-tosti. Just make a tosti and add some sambal. Or even more simple make a cheese sandwich with sambal.
we usually put red pesto on our tosti 😋
? 😲
Topless can be done on most, if not all, beaches in Europe.
But vlamtostis are great 😢 I've eaten SO many of those in my life, with some Hela currysauce to dip them in. Also, don't cook them in an airfryer, get yourself a proper tosti ijzer!
Nudity laws in the US, are known as Karen Laws.
Why is every form of nudity immediately sexualized in the US, is it just prudeness ?
Do clothed people start to look funny after awhile? Just think how weird (non-human) animals would look with full body coverings.
34:58 There is nothing wrong, just different.
I feel naked if I don't wear any clothes.
😂muggenzifter
oh boy. nudism. boring, really.
You make good content and the rest is non of my business, so i really don't care if you like to parade around in your birthday suits. 🫡🇳🇱