Star Wars Shatterpoint Battle Report: Episode 16
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- This week we have Han and Iden box’s debuting on channel! We also have mando and Moff Gideon’s first appearance! Will the rebel concur the dark side or with the tactical might of the Empire win out!
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Great video! Dark troopers are not inmune to shoves, only Push and Pull comming from habilities
Well dang… got to watch Don like a hawk lol. That would have helped me a ton on that wing early. Thanks!
-Joe
Great video as always!
Gotta remember that extra melee die from Moff Gideon though! And the extra ranged strike from Gideon Hask!
Yeah I missed alot
Hello again!
Thank you for the game report, especially using the new hotness. It’s always fun to see you guys in action at the table. As I’ve mentioned before, I think, it’s great that you show the cards when resolving attacks. I think that’s unique to you guys and it really helps with the learning.
After watching this game, I have a few errors to point out, a question to ask, and a suggestion. Please don’t take the error correction as a negative criticism. It’s really more like a highlighting of things to apply to future games. Besides, we all get things wrong here and there, and even in getting a rule wrong, it lets those of us following along with the rules open in front of them learn from the error. We all win!
Anyway, here goes.
E1) Moff Gideon’s ability to make reserving a card cost more is only for Unit Order Cards, not Shatterpoint cards. So you could have used the reserve mechanic on Shatterpoint at no extra cost.
E2) Cover is used against ranged attacks only. Han claimed cover twice in melee and should not have.
E3) Dark Troopers don’t have a rule saying they cannot be moved. They don’t even have immunity to Shoves. They specifically cannot be Pushed or Pulled by abilities. That’s it. So, when Shoves came up in the Combat tree options, they could have been used to move the Dark Troopers. Options on the tree are not abilities. Abilities are explained on p10 of the current rulebook. Stuff in an Option box will not be an ability. This had a definite impact on this game as a number of times Shoves could have been used and were not. Now, here’s the mindblower. Even if a Shove comes from an ability, such as Wrecker’s Bulldoze, the Dark Troopers still would not be immune. It’s because Bulldoze Shoves the enemy. It does not Push or Pull it. Its seems like a fine hair, but AMG recently ruled (took me by surprise) this way on their official forum. Bulldoze, the ability, creates a Shove. The Shove is not the ability, Bulldoze is. The Shove creates a Push and Pull, and only abilities themselves that Push or Pull (think Force Push or Force Pull) are ignored by Dark Troopers.
On a side note on this one, I want to highlight that this is why precision of language is so important in this game. When we just sort of interchangeably use Shove and Push (as was often the case in this game), or say “they can’t be moved,” when they are actually not the same thing, it makes it easy for us gloss over distinctions and make mistakes in what are actually clear and precise rules. We (all of us!) move forward with assumptions, not rules. Getting into the practice of using the right terms gets us all better at applying the rules. (Side side note, it’s related to why we should always call Strikes Strikes, and not “hits.” On a basic level, there are actually not hits in this game. But even if we get casual and use the term, an opponent is perfectly justified in asking “OK, so how many are Strikes and how many are Crits?” when you say “I got five hits.”)
Q1) I’m curious about where IG-11 dashed to before exploding. You didn’t show it on screen, so we don’t know, but it really looked like he could have ended up within R3 of both ISF models. If so, he would have done 10 damage to the unit, not five. So, where did he go on his dash?
S1) A suggestion for any UA-camr doing Shatterpoint videos is to quickly go over your terrain decisions before the game. AMG leaves it up to players to define which things are Terrain Parts and which are Terrain Features. Following the games and the way you play gets easier if we viewers know what’s what. For example, early on, Mando is on a tower and gets Shoved twice, but you say he cannot be. Looking at it, I, personally, would not have called the little circle rim a whole different Terrain Feature from the rest of the tower. To me, that’s not even a different Terrain Part. Still, it’s your table and your game, so you’re free to define as you like. You clearly had ruled that the rims must be a different Feature, as if they were Parts (at the same or lower Elevation as the Feature they are on) they would not have stopped Shoves. So, yep, defining for the viewer is my suggestion.
Anyway, that’s that!
Fingers crossed you take this all as constructive. I really enjoy your game reports.
Thanks for the post! Couple things back
1. So when chewie gives cover that can only be applied to range? But with Obi ability you can get cover in melee if you have a hunker token correct?
2. IG did move and do damage but we didn’t realize it was to each support minis so that is a bit better… still don’t like that he can blow up after one wound token though.
3. We do go over all the terrain in legion but I am cautious to what would be helpful to define in Shatterpoint for the viewers? Just a few examples may give me an idea.
4. Thank you for wording everything so well and we like to learn the game more and more so of course we appreciate the constructive suggestions and such :)
Thanks for watching!
-Joe
@graysquadrongaming8670 I'm really glad you took my commentary in the right way. I try to be honest but also to be not a jerk. :) It's all in the interest of learning and helping.
1. So, let's talk Cover, Chewie, and Obi.
First off, Cover, no matter the source, is only used for Ranged attacks. There are currently no rules (that I can think of) that let you use *cover* against melee attacks. That means that even if a character like Chewie is giving out the cover, the rules about when you can use it don't change. But, but, but ... Obi-Wan! Well, it's worth taking a look at what he does. He does not grant cover. His Knowledge and Defense Identity interacts with Hunker token rules, not Cover rules. This sort of goes back to what I was saying about language precision and using the right terms. Most models lose their Hunker tokens when they become Engaged. (Note that Chewie is not giving out or interacting with Hunker tokens. He simply grants Cover1.) What Obi does is allow models to keep their Hunker tokens when they become Engaged. He then also allows units that have one or more Hunker tokens to add a defense die to their roll against melee attacks. This *feels* like Cover, but it's not. It's a self-contained, unique rule that ties to the presense of a Hunker token. Yes, Hunker tokens grant Cover1 per Hunker token, and allow models with them to make use of Cover *from terrain* but that's not what Obi's rule does. It adds something new to what Hunker tokens provide. So, really, what Chewie and Obi are doing are not the same in any way. Obi's rule has nothing to do with Cover, and Chewie's rule has nothing to do with Hunker tokens. They are completely different. Again, another important reason to not be loose with terminology. Hope that helps!
2. Thanks for the info on IG-11!
3. Being honest, AMG refusing to take ownership of the terrain definition rules is one of the very, very few things I dislike about Shatterpoint. I feel like it's an abdication of responsibility of them to basically tell the gaming community "You figure it out." With that said, they do give us a few hints as to what to do, and a big one is that we, the players, have to decide what is what before each game. Today that crate is a Terrain Feature. Tomorrow, on the same table with the same terrain and models, it's a Terrain Part. It's up to us to decide. The thing is, what we define terrain as (part, feature, clear, blocking, etc.) can have a huge impact on how the game plays. I'm not sure what I can suggest for your videos, but the Mando Shove stopper is a great example of how not having consistency can be troublesome. I guess I would say at a minimum you might call out in moments like that "We ruled this thing here to be a seperate terrain feature, which meant the model could not be Shoved over it." That would at least let the viewers take in what you did without the vague AMG rules leading to them wondering about the application of the rules. I dunno. It's a tough one.
So, that's that. I can't wait to see the Ghost Crew on the table in one of your videos soon.
- (also) Joe
Watch you guys play has now got me into shatter point.
Welcome to the gmae
Dice do dice things. Fun game, very swingy right up to the end. Plus it's always fun seeing new stuff!
Agreed! Thanks for watching!
-Joe
Love to see the new models on the table!
More new models hitting very very soon!
-Joe
Keep these coming. Great stuff
Thanks for watching
Great!!🎉❤ May all acolytes😉 enjoy this battle!
Thanks for watching!
-Joe
Great report as always guys.
Thanks for watching
Looks great!
Thanks for watching
These squads look super fun!
They are good
Those dice, pretty crazy. Still a fun game to watch, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
-Joe
great game fellas! will probably dive back into shatterpoint when they release thrawn. been too busy with legion but Thrawn is my fav character so I've got to play him!
We are excited to see what thrown can do
I’m in the same boat Don. I really like this game. And despite knowing what I’m doing, I have only won once out of the 14 or 15 games I’ve played.
But at least we can bring fun unit combinations, like Gideon Squared.
Yeah for sure
Awesome to be a part of the early rising of Shatterpoint after getting into Legion later on
It is for sure. Thanks!
-Joe
Yay more shatterpoint! Looking forward to seeing more from you guys!
Thanks for watching
Really enjoy these videos as someone that doesn't get to play very often. I wish Shatterpoint would take off in my local area but people are still sticking to MCP at the moment, so I just have to game with friends at the house.
It’s getting more traction. But they have a lot of releases coming as well so it will pick up
@@graysquadrongaming8670 Agreed, I think once people see it's here to stay they will start spending the money on it. I'm excited for when that starts to happen more around here, SW Missouri area.
The secret word was double Gideon I think.
Thanks for watching!
-Joe
Swingy game, but I dont think too surpising won even when felt dice were rough. Mitigating dice randomness with other plays, moving bodies, etc can all add up.
For sure, thanks for watching!
-Joe
When IG blows up its each character takes 5 so he can wipe supports completely
Well that’s a bit better, but not a fan of him possible blowing up with only one wound token. Thanks for watching!
-Joe
I’m of the opinion that Karga’s ability only happens once at the start of the game because it says you have to do it before drawing the first card of the mission deck. The instructions state “Shuffle each deck individually, then draw one card from each deck without revealing them. Place the drawn cards face down, in order, with Phase I on the top and Phase III on the bottom. This is the Mission Deck.” The mission deck is supposed to be all three missions for the game. Therefore Karga’s ability only triggers before revealing Mission 1.
Yeah we got that now
Predicting Hans squad is murdered horribly
Thanks for watching!
-Joe
I’ve found that it’s really tough to get into Shatterpoint. A couple of my first few games were miserable.
But the more I’ve played, the more I enjoy it to the point now where it might be my favorite game to play.
You guys definitely missed some stuff that would have dramatically changed the game:
I didn’t see any Ingress Points on the board. These are absolutely essential to getting around the map and not having to climb all the time.
Units on a lower elevation can score a point if all of the units above them are wounded. The Dark Troopers should have been scoring early on.
As far as I could tell, Don didn’t use either Iden or Gideon’s identity? If you did, it wasn’t shown on camera.
I totally get what you mean by being overwhelmed. There’s a lot happening and it’s easy to miss stuff.
All of the complaining about rolling failures is a big turn off. There’s no blanks on the dice so you’re going to roll failures. Attack dice are 25% to fail and defense are 33% to fail.
I didn’t catch the bonus word, and you couldn’t be bothered to remember it at the end so *insert word here*
I think you guys could do better with the Shatterpoint content. And if you aren’t enjoying it, then don’t play it instead of making snide comments during the game about “how much fun you’re having”
Everyone who plays any game they like can get annoyed at dice games. I was on a streak of 10 failures out of 18 dice… that’s pretty bad. We both like the game a lot and will continue to play. If you have watched any of our content we always have ingress on the map but chose to not have any for a game to mix it up, they will be back next game. Hopefully you enjoy the next game more, our goal is to show off the game, explain what we are doing so other can pick up the basics, and have fun. As for the bonus word, we film a lot and sometimes we do forget the bonus word by the end, don’t worry you still get double entries. Another episode will be hitting next week. Thanks for you comment and for watching!
-Joe
Some really wild dice this game, Han, Chewie and Iden are pretty cool. Don’t think they’ll be able to swing me from the Bad Batch though.
Yeah bad batch is super solid
So many fails! A fun game to watch!
To many some might say
Nikto….klatuu….barughough. It was a B word, right? Han and Chewie seem very effective, Han just shrugs off attacks that should kill him. This game went like I see a lot of Shatterpoint going, back and forth and close until you get to a turn where someone just wins by activating.
Yeah that was unfortunate
Shatterpoint card isn't a unit card put in reserve so Gideon's ability to have it cost 1 more doesn't work.
That’s definitely helpful to know. Thanks for watching!
-Joe
Think someone needs to ask who Don is offering sacrifices up to for those dice rolls and that someone is Joe haha. Great game and love the showcase for the new goodies❤
Thanks for watching!
-Joe
Han and chewy with the bad batch is interesting, with wrecker and chewy lose by your primaries are super safe
That would be very defensive
Looking forward to watching a match with new models!
Thank for watching!
-Joe
nice video. I'll keep an eye on the channel if you make more shatterpoint content
Always making more! In fact keep your eyes on the channel next week :) thanks for watching!
-Joe
A really stupid thing about the Dark Troopers is that they can still be shoved. They're just immune to pushes from abilities, not from combat effects. They should have steadfast for thematic reasons, but they're already powerful enough anyways.
Fun to see the new units in action, fun video as always.
Oh I didn’t know they could be shoved that seems counter intuitive
Cover doesn't work in melee
Stares at chewie.
Also dark troops have protection commandos dont kill them.
+1 melee dice from Moff.
It was mother damage from the strain or whichever condition the first commando added
Great to see all the new releases on the Table, even if it ended up being another rough one to watch for the supporters of #TeamDon.
Haha thanks
Love this game, but the power creep feels real! Hoping at some point they'll go back and update the older cards to bring them up to speed.
Yeah they definitely have a lot of power creep
Gideon isn't hip, I'd go so far as to call him a square!
Haha
Gideon^2 😂
All the Gideon
By watching this game, I finally figured out what I don't like about Shatterpoint, and that's that randomness can be a fallacy sometimes. How many times was Han Solo activated, versus how many times was Moff Gideon activated. That had a huge influence on who won the game, regardless of player skill. If anyone thinks that this observation is off the mark, please let me know why! I'm seriously considering leaving the game and would appreciate your opinions.
Yeah there is a lot chance
Sarcastic "I am glad we are playing this game" is how I feel all the time with Shatterpoint. I like the models and how easy it is to teach. However, every time I play it the mechanics without attack/defense dice variance make it feel like an absolute slog.
I missed my bad batch for the rerolls for sure. Thanks for watching!
-Joe
Great. This is such a great game. I hope y’all start posting more content for shatterpoint
We try to do 1-2 videos a month between battle reports and unboxing and such…. Keep an eye out next week!
-Joe