You earned my subscription. 👍🏻 i replaced the glass & put pointer needle back on the shaft on an original 85' Frieghtliner Speedometer, sourced from a wreck. Had to pry open the big chrome bezel from the metal can/pod that was never meant to be pried open because they're "throwaway gauges". I did that because the donor gauge i could have swapped in had over a million miles on it and if the owner ever tried to sell the truck it would have severely reduced its value. Even though i left tool marks on the chrome, at least it was the original gauge. I even repainted the black background where the broken glass gouged it. Owner laughed when i told him i fixed it and he told me he fired the previous driver because he threw a hissy fit busted the speedo & both windshields and a few other things. So he bought me a nice steak dinner.
From the point of view of a man who's an old school auto instrument guy. The ammeter in the car, regardless how it's done is running vehicle charging amps through the firewall and into the dash and was always a stupid idea. And running the wire through a connector even worse. Years ago I repaired a cluster out of a 40's Plymouth (I think) where the alternator wire run through the firewall and past the back of the ammeter without interruption and back out to the battery. The magnetic field created by the current traveling through the wire was enough to deflect the gauge pointer. In this system, the wire was not cut or interrupted and remained one long piece of wire from one end to the other. This was a far better arrangement. A voltmeter gives the driver the same information and presents no danger to the vehicle. Back in the day, the ammeter was the instrument of choice, despite the danger, go figure. In modern cars the ammeter has thankfully been deleted but never replaced with a voltmeter. Every car should have a voltmeter. Good on you for replacing yours with a voltmeter. Whenever I get a classic instrument cluster to repair I always replace the gauge voltage regulator with a solid state unit regardless, and suggest a voltmeter as an alternative to the ammeter. I never found out why manufacturers went with ammeters, it's not like they didn't have voltmeters.
Right up to about 71, the bulk of the V8 mopar’s were delivered with 37 amp alternators, A/C cars being an exception. Anytime in the life of the car if the alternator was replaced, you would be given something around 50-60 amps. If for some reason you have a low battery charge and you start the car, you will pin that amp gauge and melt the plug, not desirable. The high amp alternator was needed when they went to the electrically heated back glass.
Good stuff. I have a 1970 Dodge D200 I pulled out of a barn, had not run since 1989. Everything is toast and crusty on it and cobbled together junk for trailer lights. I have it running and driving now and started going through the bulk head and it is flat out scary. Stuff cut, scotch locked, twisted, bug nuts,. So just installing a entirely new Painless harness. Thanks for the tips.
I took the cluster loose in my 65 Dart GT 273 and grounded it,Still had the fusible link thankfully,it did its job and burned the wire in 2.Yes,I put the fusible link back in.Still not ideal but works.
The actual PROBLEM, is the 12 ga wire from the Alternator. Just UP it to a 10 ga. Electrical Fans, Fuel Pumps, Stereos etc ALL ADD TO the Problem.Replace ALL of the 53 yr old wire. The harnesses themselves were Plug & Go at assembly plants. It's been catching up since.
If the AMP Gauge ground separator material deteriorates, you will still have a problem with your approach (aka fire hazzard). We adhere to the MAD Electrical document which includes what you suggest. www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
I would agree with that. You are suggesting replacing the wiring harness (with new) and increasing the size of the charging wire. You are replacing the poor connections and aged wire that are significant contributors to the issue. Another component needing replacement would be the poor wafer insulator that was commonly used for the back of the ammeter (note the vicinity of the steel dash casing to most of them). BUT ... I wouldn't waste the time to replace the entire system if it is just repeating the same mistake. I would modify the new harness in the same way I did the old one in this video. I believe the original design is antiquated and is only adequate in its new and stock state. Common upgrades - high output alternators, EFI, FANS, RADIO, etc. increase amp/flow and tax the original (and likely aged) components. Increasing charging wire size and eliminating connections (and the suicidal ammeter factory setup) WILL help this. Thanks for watching!
Sorry - just saw this... an inline fuse is a more immediate interruption that is less tolerant of shorts.... It is easily fixed by replacing the fuse. A fusible link is a slower method of interruption and may tolerate higher loads for brief periods of time before failing. The fusible link is a section of wire that is of a different construction - it is designed to melt before the other "normal" wire (or hopefully the protective coating on it) does. The fusible link gauge (like normal wire) will vary by its' intended load .... once it exceeds that amperage, it takes a few seconds or so to completely sever. The fusible link will typically need to be replaced (un-pinned from the harness and unbolted from the starter relay ) to replace so the fuse definitely is an easier fix. I can't really say if it is a better system than the other mfg's were using at the time, but I can say it works.
A general rule of thumb is the segment is protected by fusible link that is four gauge numbers smaller than the segment you are trying to protect. I may have (incorrectly) gone a bit bigger for this install.
My 1985 Fifth Avenue has burned up the ammeter gauge, the car still starts and drives normally. Is it safe to just leave everything as is, or should i disconnect something and attempt to fit a voltmeter. Thanks.
Well... personally, I would swap a working ammeter out so.... I would say now that it is malfunctioning it is even more reason to deal with it. My understanding of the ammeter is that it is a total system load indicator - gauging ALL current flowing through the entire system. The ammeter failing to read without loss of current through the system makes me think it will eventually fail completely.... interrupting ALL flow through the system.... another reason to get after it. Good Luck and thanks for watching!
Mad Electrical. really? Can’t conflate their article about late seventies trucks to sixties-seventies passenger car ammeters. Different ammeter construction altogether. Full system load through the ammeter/bulkhead connectors? While in operation? No, only when the engine is not running will the ammeter and related connections be subject to full system loads. Engine running, fully charged battery, there will be little to no current through the ammeter, needle centered. All factory loads are handled on the alternator side of the ammeter. What kills bulkhead connections and ammeter insulators on these, as original charging systems, is mis-placed added loads at the battery. On an ammeter-based charging system such as this, there can be no added loads on the battery side of the ammeter. All loading needs to on the alternator side of the ammeter as are all factory loads. The ammeter is designed to register battery charge/discharge status only while the charging system is in operation. It is not designed to handle any other loading, as original, will not register full vehicle loads.
Better do some research on this subject as well. Clearly, you are misinformed on how this system works. Lot’s old Chrysler factory training Master Tech videos on here that explains the system functions. @eaccord2629
Are you referring to the Scamp video where you are promoting the use of a 2/0-gauge battery cable connecting the battery directly to the alternator output without any circuit protection of any kind? By-passing the fusible link and exposing the entire factory charging/power system wiring to the full current potential of the battery in the event of a short that would normally be protected by the fusible link? The same video where all my responses to your false and inaccurate statements mysteriously disappear in short order? Clearly you have no understanding of how this charging system is loaded as originally designed. As I mentioned in one of the missing replies, there is plenty of original factory training materials available on-line to study, do a little more research. Don’t take the word of an ex-Chrysler factory trained master tech, with 40+years of experience designing and servicing 12volt electrical systems for all manner of vehicles, at face value. @@oldblueaccord2629
@@72roadrunnergtx You didnt need to delete your comment just because its wrong. Your not a factory tech or been doing it 40 years. Dont make it worse on yourself.
You earned my subscription. 👍🏻 i replaced the glass & put pointer needle back on the shaft on an original 85' Frieghtliner Speedometer, sourced from a wreck. Had to pry open the big chrome bezel from the metal can/pod that was never meant to be pried open because they're "throwaway gauges". I did that because the donor gauge i could have swapped in had over a million miles on it and if the owner ever tried to sell the truck it would have severely reduced its value. Even though i left tool marks on the chrome, at least it was the original gauge. I even repainted the black background where the broken glass gouged it. Owner laughed when i told him i fixed it and he told me he fired the previous driver because he threw a hissy fit busted the speedo & both windshields and a few other things. So he bought me a nice steak dinner.
From the point of view of a man who's an old school auto instrument guy. The ammeter in the car, regardless how it's done is running vehicle charging amps through the firewall and into the dash and was always a stupid idea.
And running the wire through a connector even worse. Years ago I repaired a cluster out of a 40's Plymouth (I think) where the alternator wire run through the firewall and past the back of the ammeter without interruption and back out to the battery.
The magnetic field created by the current traveling through the wire was enough to deflect the gauge pointer. In this system, the wire was not cut or interrupted and remained one long piece of wire from one end to the other.
This was a far better arrangement.
A voltmeter gives the driver the same information and presents no danger to the vehicle. Back in the day, the ammeter was the instrument of choice, despite the danger, go figure. In modern cars the ammeter has thankfully been deleted but never replaced with a voltmeter. Every car should have a voltmeter. Good on you for replacing yours with a voltmeter. Whenever I get a classic instrument cluster to repair I always replace the gauge voltage regulator with a solid state unit regardless, and suggest a voltmeter as an alternative to the ammeter.
I never found out why manufacturers went with ammeters, it's not like they didn't have voltmeters.
Right up to about 71, the bulk of the V8 mopar’s were delivered with 37 amp alternators, A/C cars being an exception. Anytime in the life of the car if the alternator was replaced, you would be given something around 50-60 amps. If for some reason you have a low battery charge and you start the car, you will pin that amp gauge and melt the plug, not desirable. The high amp alternator was needed when they went to the electrically heated back glass.
Good stuff. I have a 1970 Dodge D200 I pulled out of a barn, had not run since 1989. Everything is toast and crusty on it and cobbled together junk for trailer lights. I have it running and driving now and started going through the bulk head and it is flat out scary. Stuff cut, scotch locked, twisted, bug nuts,. So just installing a entirely new Painless harness. Thanks for the tips.
"Not puttin' people on the moon." Love that!
I took the cluster loose in my 65 Dart GT 273 and grounded it,Still had the fusible link thankfully,it did its job and burned the wire in 2.Yes,I put the fusible link back in.Still not ideal but works.
❤ good video... ive had to do similar thing to my 70' Chevelle...
The actual PROBLEM, is the 12 ga wire from the Alternator. Just UP it to a 10 ga. Electrical Fans, Fuel Pumps, Stereos etc ALL ADD TO the Problem.Replace ALL of the 53 yr old wire. The harnesses themselves were Plug & Go at assembly plants. It's been catching up since.
If the AMP Gauge ground separator material deteriorates, you will still have a problem with your approach (aka fire hazzard). We adhere to the MAD Electrical document which includes what you suggest.
www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
I would agree with that. You are suggesting replacing the wiring harness (with new) and increasing the size of the charging wire. You are replacing the poor connections and aged wire that are significant contributors to the issue. Another component needing replacement would be the poor wafer insulator that was commonly used for the back of the ammeter (note the vicinity of the steel dash casing to most of them).
BUT ... I wouldn't waste the time to replace the entire system if it is just repeating the same mistake. I would modify the new harness in the same way I did the old one in this video. I believe the original design is antiquated and is only adequate in its new and stock state. Common upgrades - high output alternators, EFI, FANS, RADIO, etc. increase amp/flow and tax the original (and likely aged) components.
Increasing charging wire size and eliminating connections (and the suicidal ammeter factory setup) WILL help this.
Thanks for watching!
What is the difference between a inline fuse and a fuse able link
Sorry - just saw this... an inline fuse is a more immediate interruption that is less tolerant of shorts.... It is easily fixed by replacing the fuse. A fusible link is a slower method of interruption and may tolerate higher loads for brief periods of time before failing. The fusible link is a section of wire that is of a different construction - it is designed to melt before the other "normal" wire (or hopefully the protective coating on it) does. The fusible link gauge (like normal wire) will vary by its' intended load .... once it exceeds that amperage, it takes a few seconds or so to completely sever. The fusible link will typically need to be replaced (un-pinned from the harness and unbolted from the starter relay ) to replace so the fuse definitely is an easier fix. I can't really say if it is a better system than the other mfg's were using at the time, but I can say it works.
What wire gauge would you recommend for the alternator to battery by-pass cable?
The factory stuff is about 10 ga but I try to use the next size up (think 8 or so)... The big cable to the starter should be battery size 6 or better.
Do you know off hand what the original amp rating is on the factory fuseable link?
A general rule of thumb is the segment is protected by fusible link that is four gauge numbers smaller than the segment you are trying to protect. I may have (incorrectly) gone a bit bigger for this install.
My 1985 Fifth Avenue has burned up the ammeter gauge, the car still starts and drives normally. Is it safe to just leave everything as is, or should i disconnect something and attempt to fit a voltmeter. Thanks.
Well... personally, I would swap a working ammeter out so.... I would say now that it is malfunctioning it is even more reason to deal with it. My understanding of the ammeter is that it is a total system load indicator - gauging ALL current flowing through the entire system. The ammeter failing to read without loss of current through the system makes me think it will eventually fail completely.... interrupting ALL flow through the system.... another reason to get after it. Good Luck and thanks for watching!
Mad Electrical. really? Can’t conflate their article about late seventies trucks to sixties-seventies passenger car ammeters. Different ammeter construction altogether. Full system load through the ammeter/bulkhead connectors? While in operation? No, only when the engine is not running will the ammeter and related connections be subject to full system loads. Engine running, fully charged battery, there will be little to no current through the ammeter, needle centered. All factory loads are handled on the alternator side of the ammeter. What kills bulkhead connections and ammeter insulators on these, as original charging systems, is mis-placed added loads at the battery. On an ammeter-based charging system such as this, there can be no added loads on the battery side of the ammeter. All loading needs to on the alternator side of the ammeter as are all factory loads. The ammeter is designed to register battery charge/discharge status only while the charging system is in operation. It is not designed to handle any other loading, as original, will not register full vehicle loads.
NOPE!
Better do some research on this subject as well. Clearly, you are misinformed on how this system works. Lot’s old Chrysler factory training Master Tech videos on here that explains the system functions. @eaccord2629
@@72roadrunnergtx I have. your 100% incorrect. I told you on my video as well and you just deleted your comment.
Are you referring to the Scamp video where you are promoting the use of a 2/0-gauge battery cable connecting the battery directly to the alternator output without any circuit protection of any kind? By-passing the fusible link and exposing the entire factory charging/power system wiring to the full current potential of the battery in the event of a short that would normally be protected by the fusible link? The same video where all my responses to your false and inaccurate statements mysteriously disappear in short order? Clearly you have no understanding of how this charging system is loaded as originally designed. As I mentioned in one of the missing replies, there is plenty of original factory training materials available on-line to study, do a little more research. Don’t take the word of an ex-Chrysler factory trained master tech, with 40+years of experience designing and servicing 12volt electrical systems for all manner of vehicles, at face value. @@oldblueaccord2629
@@72roadrunnergtx You didnt need to delete your comment just because its wrong. Your not a factory tech or been doing it 40 years. Dont make it worse on yourself.
Improves NOTHING...
www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
That mad bullshit is exactly that.