I saw the church change over the years. I honestly feel I joined the church my mother in law grew up in. She had wonderful stories of growing up in a tight knit Mormon community in Nephi Utah. She witnessed and experienced miracles and Divine experiences. I was reading and searching all the older books that the church sold. I loved all of the stories of miracles, free agency, and personal revelation. I loved how we were encouraged to question what our leaders said. Wether they were speaking for God or as a man. Meaning, was it inspiration or his opinion. David O’McKay was supposedly famous for this. I loved we were encouraged to discern the truth is for ourselves. It makes for a stronger member and a solid church. I left in 2008ish. It was hard. I raised my children in thee church. I sincerely believed it with all my heart and did my very best to live it and teach my children to do the same. I had been unhappy in the church for sometime . I felt the Spiritual side was being replaced with things that were what the world would consider more acceptable. I really felt the loss of the Spiritual side of the church. I felt as if the church was missing what had set it apart and made it something I could grow closer to God with. I left during what I heard was the first wave of the most recent Apostasy. Making me think I am not the only person to have noticed and missed the things of the Spirit. Having said that, I believe there are many in the church who still have the Spirit with them. There are people like me who love the stories of miracles and have experienced some themselves. I wonder how much longer they will stay as the church drifts further into a more corporate, sanitized way of functioning.
The answers are all found in Isaiah! Avraham Giliadi is a Jewish convert to the church and has decoded what Isaiah says in scripture. It was a relief to me to understand what the heck was happening to the church I knew years ago. Avraham can be found online at the Isaiah Institute or book of Mormon Isaiah. It's worth the effort to study it out and will be a tender mercy to your soul.
Great points, quite persuasive if we would only allow ourselves any ounce of introspection as a people. These are the kinds of discussions that SHOULD be happening every 2nd hour of church.
I wish. In EQ I remember having really good discussions that I wish could go for much longer. However it changed into "What did X say about Y". Always the same. Read this portion of the talk and then go to the next portion.
It dawned on me about 6 years ago. There are no lessons from the scriptures. All lessons from the teachings from the prophets, yep and conference talks. It helped me realize some of the serious downfall of the church. By the way, I threw away every book except the teachings of Joseph Smith. I only read scriptures and definitely do not blindly believe D&C. When my prophet encorcourged everyone to take the vac's. That was the nail in the coffin. People blindly follow and don't use their own discernment. Is that so they can try and use that as an excuse to not have accountability for our own actions. How come a person will not use their full agency?
I noticed the same thing and though it was strange. Endlessly discussing those manuals from the life of each church president. I think it is mostly because people don't want to lead or do their own work. They want to be told and want it to be easy. In many ways the church is hurting themselves, however in many other ways they are doing the best they can because the members themselves are the problem.
@@AvadenSV I can dig that. Freedom is not the right to do what you want, its the right to do what you should. One is the lesser law and one is the higher. I dont like Mormonism, but from a Platonic perspective, I get what the charlatan is saying.
I don’t think the members are the problem. I noticed before I left that they were hungry for things of the Spirit. I believe the church left the members. They quit teaching what had set it apart originally and made it unique. But as I learned of the history, I do see how the leaders were always Fallible. The only mistake the members make is not believing they are allowed to question wether the leadership is speaking as a man or as the mouthpiece of God at the time. We should always question. Even Nephi questioned his father in the Book Of Mormon and took his concerns to God for personal revelation before following Lehi’s plan.
Apostacy does not require the wholesale abandonment of truth. Instead, it merely requires slow, small corruptions to the truth delivered through a dispensation head. Apostacy never came by renouncing the gospel, but always by corrupting it. Hugh Nibley, Temple and Cosmos, 1991, p 395.
36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts. 37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. 38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies-because of the praise of the world? 39 Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? 40 Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads? 41 Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer. Mormon 8:36-41 Can you say Conference Center? Church office buildings? City Creek? The usage of tithing funds was also twisted as was how tithing was to be calculated. JST Genesis 14:38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes for the poor. 39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need. Tithing was for the care of the poor and the needy. Fast Offerings never should have been. Now lets talk about the overly large living stipend the brethren receive... The book deals etc... Nahorism is alive and well in the Church and the law of consecration is dead. "3 And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people." Alma 1:3 "16 Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor." Alma 1:16 "26 And when the priests left their labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man according to his strength. 27 And they did impart of their substance, every man according to that which he had, to the poor, and the needy, and the sick, and the afflicted; and they did not wear costly apparel, yet they were neat and comely. 28 And thus they did establish the affairs of the church; and thus they began to have continual peace again, notwithstanding all their persecutions." Alma 1:26-28 Kind of clear when you read the scriptures...
Exactly. LDS members are willfully ignorant when they refuse to apply the words of the BoM to themselves. It all makes sense when you realize that they were writing to us specifically, the only people in the modern world would seriously read their words.
Good points. I too have been concerned about some of these issues. And I've been in bishopric and ward council meetings where ideas have been shot down because it didn't comport with the handbook.
I really liked your remark about how we shouldn’t be reiterating the words of men over and over again. I never did like that they do conference-based lessons and talks. I also felt it was wrong to call those talks scripture. Maybe it’s because I always read and loved the scriptures, and conference talks simply do not compare. But I feel I understand somewhat better now-canonized scripture has to be vetted and even voted on. Calling conference talks “scripture” is a false tradition, and sadly, some conference talks actually contradict the actual scriptures.
Same. Theyre are many nice words in many cases but NOT scripture. And I did wonder why no more sections in the D &C. It's cool that some mormon groups add to their scripture!
@@morjulies I challenge people with this question: If you heard only the words of the talk, not knowing who or where they were spoken, would you really be able to differentiate them from any other televangelist?
I don’t like anti Mormon stuff but I did like this video I’ve been in the church for 44 years and boy haven’t I seen some changes I won’t mention them all but one change really stands out is those on very low incomes didn’t have to pay any tithing at all now that’s been changed and you can be in dire straits as I was when my husband died and I had to pay tithing before I could get any help I went through hell and back it was horrendous.
Thanks. I don't consider myself "anti", but I do seek truth wherever it can be found. Many are naturally afraid of stepping outside of the LDS bubble. However, in many ways I feel the LDS church has left correct principles. As far as tithing though, it is telling that it is a temple recommend question and a yearly declaration. Money is very important for the church. Requiring poorer people to pay tithing before they can access assistance from the church is literally to "grind the faces of the poor". Many will be unable to live God's higher way of consecration because they trust in their own riches more than they trust in God. They would rather work for their own gain rather than the gain of their neighbor.
What was instituted as 10% of your increase annually after expenses, meant 10% of your excess calculated annually. Now they want 10% of gross. Tithing was not to be hard.
Ever since I heard your podcast about the Kirkland Temple, I’ve been your fan. Thanks for your effort and resources as you prepare good 👍 content. This most recent episode is right up there. 😊
I stopped going to RS and Sunday School years ago when I realized the manuals and the conference talks were the focus. Even Come Follow Me is selective with scripture and paraphrases them. It's become a lazy way to live where we don't think for ourselves, don't search on our own, and don't ask God for confirmation. All is not well in Zion. Thank you for these 10 items. Great research work.
I do find it very strange that in the LDS church we talk about conference so much. We hear about a conference talk in almost every sacrament meeting and then in RS/EQ again. It certainly encourages leader worship. Someone somewhere in the leadership has to recognize this is a fundamental problem in the church.
I find it fascinating that while some of us find these questions and facts relevant others don’t want to even think about them. In fact I know many people who wouldn’t want to even acknowledge a single contradiction you’ve presented here for fear of being in apostasy. I am a believer that we are children of God given minds with the ability to analyze and assess reality as best we can and make judgements based on those findings. If the Lords plan is for us to blindly follow at every step and worship in the form of ordinances and works to earn the fulness of His glory it contradicts The Word. Jesus Christ spoke clearly about many of the things you’ve presented here and other contradictions the current membership frequently practice and sustain. To add to your list I would say that there is no other man who stands at the gate of Gods presence than Jesus Christ. He is the way and it is narrow and hard to believe. The church’s attempt to make the way difficult by adding requirements and works to be worthy of God is misdirected and actually easier for the natural man to embrace as the way to God. To only rely on and trust that a relationship with Jesus Christ gets you all that the temple promises requires a lot of faith!!!!
Thank you. Yes, I have seen more than once people are willing to see this or that, however it always stops at a certain point because they are afraid of the implications. People do this all the time in many areas of life. They don't want to rock the boat and want "all is well" mentality.
On number 8, my extended family refused all vaccinations. During covid before and after. We had family reunions. NONE of us got sick from that. Wouldn't you say that was a miracle? Our doctors sure thought so.😊
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints cannot escape this one fact, and whether you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet or not, or that he received this revelation or not, you will be amazed at what I am about to tell you. The very first words that were reported to have been received from the Lord, in this dispensation of time, was recorded in July of 1828, and can be found in the Church’s first attempt to publish the Doctrine and Covenants, in a book with the title of: A Book of Commandments, of 1833. Those words can be found in chapter II of that Book, where the Lord is reported to have told Joseph Smith that His (the Lord’s words) never “vary from that which He hath said”. The Lord is then said to have explained his purposes for the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon. This revelation is written in response to Joseph Smith and Martin Harris losing the first 116 pages they translated from the Book of Mormon. Joseph was told not to re-translate the part they had lost, because of a “Cunning Plan” Satan had, to influence those that then had the 116 pages, to “alter” the words so that they would read “contrary” to how they were meant to be understood. That “Cunning Plan” is meant to destroy the work of the Lord, in not only the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon, but also in destroying its true purpose. Joseph was told to repent of his bad behavior and he would be allowed to continue on with the translation, with the only one gift he was ever to be given. He was told to NOT pretend to any other gifts, for he would not be given any other gift. (period!) Joseph Smith supposedly repented, and was allowed to finish the work of translating the rest of the Book of Mormon, which was later published in 1830. Joseph read what he translated, and imagined it was all about him, and began to return to his past bad behavior, and fell for that “Cunning Plan” by altering the words he said the Lord revealed to him in his first revelations. He contradicts what the Lord had told him, about his gift, and the purposes of the Book of Mormon. These and many other contradictions can be found in the records, scriptures, and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Especially, in the practices of “Dead Works” done in the temples that contradict what the Holy Ghost revealed to Mormon, in the Book of Mormon, of the Lord’s words, concerning the baptism of “little children”, and those that “die without a knowledge of the gospel”. The Lord has warned those that put their trust in “Dead Works”! Which “Dead Works” mock the Lord’s mercy of his atoning sacrifices for “little children” and “those that die without a knowledge of the gospel”, and which also denies the power of his Holy Spirit! Please take care that you do not contradict what the Lord has already told us, and that you do not follow that “Cunning Plan”. It is written, in the Book of Mormon, that the Lord will send his servant to tell his brethren these things, but they will not believe him. He says they will mar him, but they will not hurt him. That servant was not Joseph Smith, because they not only hurt him, they killed him! But the Lord said that He (the Lord) will heal his servant, for He will show unto them (those that do not believe), that His (the Lord’s) wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil!
The more I learn, the more correct this sounds. Joseph had a great work, but I do believe he went past what God wanted him to. I am not sure specifically what this was, but certainly Nauvoo was an abomination and part of Kirtland was also.
When you want to exalt your leaders instead of allowing them to be servants as they should be, you start with the local leaders and it extends to the upper crust of leadership. It leads to idol worship, which is in full effect.
There are admissions from Mormon and Moroni that there are errors made in the Book of Mormon but these are the weaknesses and mistakes of men and not of God. This takes all conference talks to a level of precepts unto themselves and that do not regard weakness or mistake. I agree with many of the points you have made here that the Church is often placing itself at the gates of Heaven to approve or disapprove entry whereas so many places in scripture that Jesus is at the gate and employs no servant there and through Him therefore guidance and revelation is active
Poem written by Scout, it is called "Temple" I sit in the temple lobby and cry avoiding contact with the eyes of the women dressed in white, I watch my best friends go right on ahead, the front desk told me my recommend wasn't valid as if I didn't already feel distant from my friends battling all these doubts in a foreign country, too scared to let the truth come out as if they wouldn't want to be friends with me or instead try to convince me to stay in a place that feels like poison sometimes, the lobby chairs are comfortable but not as comfortable as sitting in a room with your friends, doing what they say will save millions without breaking a sweat, I wish I wouldn't let it get to me but there are tears on my cheeks and I am lonely siting in the lobby just thinking Jesus will let me in. I took this poem from the video "Father/Daughter Defend LDS Church, Then Leave It - Ryan & Scout Fisher - Nephite Explorer | Ep. 1937" In the Mormon stories channel.
The worthiness concept in Mormonism is so hard for a lot of people. There are some who think they are worthy when they are not and then others who feel so unworthy yet they are amazing people. I believe it should be up to the individual and God. If you want to approach God then you should be able to. We don't need gatekeepers.
No! I am not saying that all all! One should always think for himself, but you are many one in a million that thinks that it would be strange for a bishop to look something up in a handbook! Could you imagine that on every issue all the bishops would pray about it, and I wonder how many different conclusions there would be!!! Did you pray about this apostate video, and if so did you right the revelation down?!? Do you really think that this apostate video is helping or hurting the church?!?
I have my personal options on all of this, more in general, but it's fascinating. I bet i could have done great conversations with you. One of the most important things to ever come from the GC pulpit is president Nelson, about not surviving the coming days without the Spirit. I was EQ Pres in my branch and i generally taught from the conference talks. But i always addressed personal concerns. I really had awesome lessons. I used the GC talk as a platform and never really taught the "lesson" by reading the talk. The Spirit, when understood correctly, is the most powerful piece that we can have when it comes to the Gospel. It is the defender of truth and confirms Christ and Heavenly Father's position in the great plan of happiness. There may be some nuance in very particular items, but i would general agree with you. I love the Lord and i love His children. The church will never save you, the prophet can't save you, it's only Christ. We forget the true purpose of the atonement and sacrifice our salvation for the treasure of the world.
I generally agree with you. I think things are a bit more complicated than this though. Of course Christ is the only way. However the church seems to be hellbent on getting in the way of Christ. I have spoken to people who believe that the church/president are doing this on purpose to "test" the members. However, I find that a bit silly. I think it is way more likely that the church is doing what they think is good in their eyes and they have gone apostate like almost every other group in the history of humanity.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I just watched your first video. I wanted to see why you started this channel. Fascinating for sure. I'm active LDS living in Texas. I moved here during covid lockdowns from NM. We did things out of respect but it wasn't at the peril of your membership. On the other hand my sister in Omaha went through something similar to you. It has shaped the way that I understand the church. We, the church or people or civilization get exactly what we ask for. That's a 3 hour conversation though. I share your love for the Gospel and learning. When I put my UA-cam channel together, I'm sure I'll upset everyone and won't have any friends left. I think things are much different than we really understand. Kinda like the matrix... Anyways, you seem like a genuine person. I hope we can talk more. Thanks for letting me understand you a bit better. I'm sure we won't agree on everything, but I'll listen and I am sure I have a ton to learn from you my friend
@@michaelwhipple347 Yes we do get exactly what we want whether good or bad. I am off and on active on LDS Freedom Forum (username Telavian). There is a wide mix of people there from diehard, to nomo and in between. I personally am in between. I really like the LDS church, however I feel like it is leaving true principles and I am not leaving it.
I always learn a lot from your videos. You have such a comfortable, relaxed and effective presentation style. You also present things very fairly and in such an organized way. I’m also glad you enabled comments, as I often get a lot out of reading others’ responses and thoughts as well. I sometimes feel starved for this kind of discussion and hearing others’ thoughts about these things I’ve wondered about. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks!! Your work is appreciated.
Christ taught to obey the laws of the land!!! It is also my experience from dealing with many apostates like you, that behind their front, they are too weak to keep the commandments as they should, so they attack the church as if somehow that would take the condemnation off of them! By the way, I know it wasn't from a manual, but you never did answer my question about the revelation from God that inspired you to come out with this apostate video!!!
Let me tell you something else! READ Daniel chapter two! It is obvious the this church will fill the whole earth, and I want to be on that ship rather than listen to some apostate man who tried to say that the church is in apostasy! Let me tell you something, there is some individual apostasy in the church, but the scriptures are clear, the church will never go into apostasy like it did before!!! You can either get on that little stone that keeps growing, or it will roll over you and crush you!!!
You are assuming the LDS church is the stone, which is an incorrect assumption. You are also assuming the LDS church will never go astray, which is an incorrect assumption. You may be shocked to understand the Joseph made up some of the revelations and changed others. The LDS church is in apostasy. You can ignore that if you want, but every argument you are making is the same argument every other generation has made. We can't go astray because we are God's chosen. We have the truth so we are better than everyone else. We have a prophet so everything he says is true.
New scriptures are being revealed. A new english version of the Book of Mormon has been produced through divine means. The Covenant of Christ is a great new work that makes the scriptures easy to understand for today's seekers.
"19 And he commanded them that they should teach nothing save it were the things which he had taught, and which had been spoken by the mouth of the holy prophets" (Mosiah 18:19) It is perfectly fine for the church to consent with the handbook. There is a lot of this video that goes along the lines of "I think." I certainly have a different point of view as to what is going on in church eight now, but an accusation of apostasy has to be better than "I think"
True. However "I think" is at the heart of everything we do. Do you regularly explain multiple points to others without thinking it yourself? You are focusing on a single item though and missing the other items. If "I think" about 10 different independent points, then it is certainly much stronger than a random statement out of nowhere. You are also equating the handbook with the words of God. Why is this? If the handbook is not the words of "holy prophets" then why use the scripture as evidence? If it is the words of "holy prophets" then why do we not teach from such a divine work from the pulpit?
24:21 "My Bishop even directly told me that I was not to administer to sick people at that time." Weird. Could that have been a problem with your Bishop? Or a problem with you?? Why do you seem to immediately assume that it was a problem with the entire Church. No one ever told me not to administer to sick people during the pandemic.
To your point #8: I am 64 years of age and All My Life I have NEVER Ever seen this Priesthood thing ever heal Anyone from Anything! As Ephraim Hanks did over a century ago. However I believe that at least one of my prayers have been answered and that I have received some form of Revelation. Examples: Over 20 years ago, I was going through every book on Tape and CD at the North Ogden Library that I thought that sounded interesting and that I could learn something from. One book on CD that I picked up was a book called "How to Get Rich" by Donald Trump. Narrated by Barry Bostwick. I listened to the whole thing as I painted in an apartment for a rich landowner. I recognized what a Genius for Finance this man was. And so after finishing the last disc, I knelled down on the stairway of the apartment that I was working in and I said a heartfelt SIMPLE prayer to God. I said to God, that "This Could Be The Man, to straighten out and Save America?" I said, "God, If You agree, please make him Our President." I then lost track of Mr. Trump for several years and then one day years later, Suddenly there he was, coming down that Famous Escalator and proclaiming that he was indeed running for President! I Was Thrilled! And never looked back so to speak. And the Results speak for themselves! Now in 2024, and in answer to another prayer, he has been reelected with the Greatest victory in American History, which is Exactly what I asked for this summer, 2024! Now I'd better use another posting spot in case this one gets deleted. Next post coming up...
God is very much active in our lives. The problem in the LDS church though, is we ascribe certain things like Priesthood as the pathway to God. However, if we look then we can see the same thing in other churches. Many people are healed by a simple prayer of faith, yet the LDS church thinks they control this which is not true.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I've Never in my lifetime seen Anyone healed by a Faith Prayer. You have to have something more than Faith to divide water and move mountains. There must be some Code or applicable Pattern used by guys like Moses or Ephraim Hanks to do what they did. Without the proper code or combination, all the faith in the Universe just aint going to get things done. Faith that in the end, things will all turn out as they should is one thing, but actually making a Real measurable difference in someone's life or in the future of mankind via faith alone is Nonsense! As the age old scripture says: Faith without Works is Dead!
@@stevesworldisnumber1 "I've Never in my lifetime seen Anyone healed by a Faith Prayer." It's likely because you never looked. I just read Moroni 7, which is all about faith, and it never once mentioned priesthoods, codes, or special patterns. In the LDS church we read things into the text all the time that shouldn't be there. This is one of those cases. Read Moroni 7 without the concept of priesthood in your mind and see if that makes a difference. "Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith believing that ye shall receive, behold, it shall be done unto you."
@@uncorrelatedmormonism If so, what is the Priesthood good for anyway! My Pat. Blessing specifically says that- By the power of "The Priesthood" I will go forth Doing the Impossible! What that thing is I Don't Know, but the "Priesthood" is specifically mentioned as The Power that I will hold forever! So you tell me, WHAT this Priesthood thing is? Anybody can have Faith in Anything, but that doesn't make it right or make something work. Frankly, I think that I Need Someone that I PERSONALLY KNOW who has Died to come and tell me what this Priesthood thing is as opposed to simple faith alone. Because someone that I KNOW who has died cannot be Faked. And someone that I KNOW has died does not need Oxygen or food or shelter and therefore is incorruptible because of the needs of any Mortal man. So, I pray for that ALL THE TIME! Faith Can move mountains and divide water and change water to New Wine. But there must be a mechanism for any event to be made to happen. Again Faith without works is dead. Lots of Lovey Dovey feelings just don't cut it!
@@stevesworldisnumber1 You keep referencing faith without works. However, the way you are describing things is more like works without faith. All you need is the "priesthood" and then you can do anything. I don't believe God works this way. For some reason God will honor a blessing if you have the "priesthood", but he won't honor it if you have "faith". Your God sounds very strange to me. Anyways, I did a video on the priesthood which you are welcome to watch. The conclusion was that the priesthood is real, however keys are not special access, but knowledge. The priesthood itself seems to be more of a managerial thing than a necessity to access God.
Yes, there's definitely internal strife. I noticed many don't actually ask God. I received visions and dreams, but they were ignored. I now only share them with the occasional individual if prompted, but definitely with non members as they listen more. I'm scared of the lack of revelation internally. Something good to pay attention to, chief Midegah and the birch bark scrolls.
Official LDS doctrine are the scriptures and the official statements by the first presidency that are ratified by the twelve apostles and sustained by the church as a whole, and if a member of the church doesn't understand it or disagrees, then he should talk to the leaders about it! What has God told you about putting out this apostate video?!? Did you write that revelation down!?!
I always found it weird that we should stand when apostle walks into the room. And why none of them have ever addressed this. By saying please don’t stand when I come in the room I am just a man called to serve.
This is really the only valid question and I am not sure if there is a clear answer. Many people have had "revelations" that later turned out to be bogus however people were willing to die for their belief in it. I really don't know. The LDS answer is the "Holy Ghost" which I do understand. However that is a completely flawed metric because we can so easily be swayed. I think if it promotes freedom, loving God, and doing right by your neighbor then that is a good start.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism True, but does that not really lead to a lot of "new ageisms" that are just tropes that really don't add anything to the conversation? Like, should there not be revelations dealing with our cosmos, for instance, and our place in it? The Urantia Books claims such a thing, for instance. Or revelations about the destruction of our tribe, by things that are being promoted that are/will destroy our seed? Thanks for responding. Unless there is an intervention or reset soon, it is really going to get ugly - the moral decline has reached fever pitch
I do agree that there needs to be a religious reset. Historically we have seen some small and larger resets. The next one should be the biggest reset so far historically. Yes my comment does lead to some "new ageisms". However, I do think a lot of Christ's true religion is going to be a bit too "new age" for a lot of people. The whole law of consecration is a bit new age as well as helping everyone in whatever way you can. Our entire western society is individualistic which is totally opposite of what Christ is.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Well it just got kicked up a notch with the Biden cartel weaponizing the courts against Trump and now the sham NY trial convicting him on 34 counts. This decade is off the charts, starting with Covid
You study it. You ponder it. You pray about it. And then you study it some more. You rely on your conscience and the whispering of the spirit. You determine what its asking of you. You look at the giver of the message. Do they boldly state the origin of their message and how they received it? Do they deliver the message and then depart? Do they demand your worship or make it about themselves? All these patterns are in scripture. It's meant to be a test.
No thanks! I have studied Mormon history, Mormon doctrine and theology for more than 60 years, so I know all about the polygamy deniers, the race ban deniers, and other ignorant gospel deniers!!!
It's about maintaining control over the masses... as with any organized religion (faith-based belief in the supernatural) even if facts prove errors in the dogma. Man is never perfect and truth doesn't require faith, nor does it change. One should always question and learn - for themselves. One can be spiritual without religious affiliation.
27:26 "In retrospect, I was focusing on the ordinance and not on God." Hmmm. Interesting. Am I to understand that you believe all Saints do what you did when they attend the temple? This sounds like a personal problem to me.
The members of the church are not saints. Yes, I do believe that. If we were to focus on God more than we would realize how pointless most of our actions are. Thank you for pointing out a previous problem of mine. I have since repented.
@@talkofchrist Why is it almost every comment from you has an undertone of condescension? I study many things and then come to a conclusion as to what I think is correct. I don't automatically assume that because someone in leadership says something then it is true. Do you assume this?
I agree with you on most of this, but to play devil’s advocate can I just point out that you said there’s no more revelation, and then you said the conference talks are just words of men. Do you want to see revelation or have you decided yourself that modern words are not revelation? Because the church teaches conference talks are scripture.
Christ suddenly appearing in His temple and the return of Elijah just as Malachi prophesied! Do you have any other candidates, ignorant apostate?!? I am still waiting for you to expound upon your revelation from God and what he told you concerning this apostate video!!!
So true about practicing belief and faith during covid. It virtual disappeard. Instead of an oportunity to demonstrate faith, leaders encourage us , to trust in the arm of flesh. See what Mark said in 16:17, 18 in the KJV of the bible and how this was repeated by Moroni word for word in Mormon 9:24.
I am rufuting everything you are saying, but you don't even seem to be bright enough to see it! Just like your ignorance about the return of Elijah! This is not only recorded in D&C, but it is also recorded in his own history!!! Continued...
In your first example I feel sad for everyone involved. Sadly your bishop did the wrong thing. He acted out of fear not faith. I have come to understand through my birth to 66 years in the church that bishops are called for different reasons. Sometimes it's because the ward needs to learn some lessons. More often though it's because of what the bishop needs to learn. My sisters bishop actually shot live rounds into her car while kids were TPing his house. Thankfully, she had her window down and it diverted the bullets. One of the many shots bounced off the road and hit one of the kids in the face. His mom sued him and he counter sued my sister. He lost in court. But he remained bishop up until the court case, then he was finally released. Turns out Salt Lake believed his lies and never bothered to even talk to anyone else involved. Other members of the bishopric came to her house to try and smooth things over after the incident. They made excuses and her husband kicked them out of his house. And yes they are still active. This experience gave our whole family a new perspective on church leadership.
A further comment: I Never liked the Temple Oaths and Penalties stuff when I first went there. I was Frankly Shocked at these Barbaric Death Rituals! But I had to go along with it all even though it disgusted me, just to do the Missionary thing. And that never worked out very well anyway!
I have studied theology and Mormon doctrine for more than 69 years, so what do you know! Do you think God doesn't know what he is doing?!? When He has inspired something to be put in a Manuel, how do you think He would feel if every bishop started not paying attention and just praying about it?!? Stop being an apostate! Do you think this ignorant podcast will help the church?!? Did you pray about it?!? What did God tell you about putting out this apostate video?!? Stop relying solely on your own knowledge and wisdom because you have very little!!!
Your comment makes no sense and is the problem with Mormonism. You are essentially saying that we shouldn't think and instead just rely on the manual and the leaders.
I appreciate what you are trying to do and I generally support most of it. You might not be wrong about most of it, but there are some things I think you should get some pushback on - some constructive criticism. First, ever since the beginning Lord has desired to speak to His children to give them special knowledge and power while on earth. Those sacred experiences were almost always done in a special place the Lord designated as holy and asked for his children to come there. Temples are our modern-day attempt at that. Current LDS temples are not perfect and the rites are lacking, I agree. However, they are the best we have currently, until the Lord comes again. Second, the history of paying tithing in the latter-day church is somewhat dubious. However, in Israel's day, each male temple goer was expected to pay a yearly offering to the temple for them and their family. One could argue (quite successfully, I might say) that Jewish religious customs were also in a state of apostasy. However, Jesus did not have a problem with this, at least from the record we have in the NT. Lastly, regarding sustaining church leadership, I would again agree with your sentiment but when I found myself being critical of Pres Nelson and the other Apostles, I felt like I wasn't feeling the Spirit as much in my life as I was used to. Maybe it was just me or maybe it was due to something else. However, once I learned something that really helped me put it into perspective and be more charitable towards them, I have been feeling much better. I still don't value their counsel as much as I used to but I no longer am critical of their choices. What helped me was a series on the Priesthood done by the Shattering Triangles group - check them out on YT and I think it would benefit anyone to listen to the series on Priesthood.
Thank you for the feedback. 1. I disagree that God need "special places". Can you show me an example of this? The Book of Mormon opens with Lehi praying and then have a divine experience "upon a rock". This was likely in the middle of nowhere and certainly not in a "special place". 2. I agree with tithing. However no where in the law does it say to pay tithing when you can't afford it. Does God want you to go into debt to pay tithing as a sign of faith? How is this different from the medieval days where peasants would be starving next to an incredibly ornate church. 3. I agree about President Nelson. I think God uses him for whatever he will allow God to do. I think he is an administrator more than a prophet, but he is still the leader of a large religious group. I don't believe I am more critical of him than any other leader. However I also don't think he should get a pass just because he calls himself a prophet.
@uncorrelatedmormonism the entire earth is a special place. God made it. The entire cosmos is a special place, God made it. A building made with hands man's can be special. But is nothing compared to the grandeur of being in the midst of the forests of the Grand Tetons mountain range......
@@TheBackyardProfessor Yes, anything can be sacred to us if we make it sacred. Imagine setting a room apart in your house only for sacred activities. That room then becomes a temple to you.
@@TheBackyardProfessor I tend to want to agree with you but there are ancient stories of even native people's being called to specific places to worship. Granted these are places that are not made by humans but they are specific places designated by the Creator God to learn from Him. If you haven't heard about it, there's a great podcast called The Ancient Tradition which really helped open my eyes about this.
Your apostasy is showing more and more! Having studied theology and Mormon doctrine for more than 60 years, I find your arguments lack substance, are weak, and are childish! From one who was Christened Catholic and has studied and attended do many other churches, I can say that the LDS church is the only true restored church of Jesus Christ exactly like it was set up in the primitive church just as Peter prophesied in Acts 3:19-21 as part of the "restitution of ALL things." What was restored! ALL things; the priesthood authority, the priesthood offices, the foundation of the church of prophets and apostles, modern revelation, modern scripture, the spiritual birth by the water and the Spirit or baptism and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, baptism for the dead, etc., continued...
30:15 "I don't think that a financial sacrifice from the people who can afford it the least is what God wants... It should be from the people that can afford it the most." - seems to me like you misunderstand the word "sacrifice."
Are you saying that 10% from someone that has no money left over every month is on the same level as 10% from someone that buys designer items when their bored? Certainly there is a difference, right? Alma certainly felt so in Mosiah 18.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I'm saying your suggestion that sacrifices ought to come from people that can afford them the most is a misunderstanding of the word (and purpose) of sacrifice.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism and I'm saying you misunderstand sacrifice when you suggest it should come from people who can handle it and not from those who can't. Considering how much you appear to like Lectures on Faith, I would think you should be familiar with the quote, "a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation." 10% of income (however you want to define it for yourself) is the minimum to indicate to yourself that you might be able to make a sacrifice. But "all things" is what's required by the law.
It's so funy that so many antis think that the amount of Revelations received is strictly only based on the number of Revelations and times it was given according the cannon Revelations in doctrine and Covenants. This is a fualts way to go about it. Actually, the prophets from Joseph smith to President Nelson have recieved Revelations and it's up to them to decide if they want to give to give it to the saints, and if so they will add to doctrine and covenants or publish it separately. This has actually happened. There are 30 or so other documented Revelations in other papers and manuscript with "thus saith the lord" and most of them were never given to the saints however, some of them were. There us one from Joseph f smith in 1918.
It is funny that you think God works in secret. The LDS president, who is supposedly also a prophet, can receive revelations in secret and then just do whatever he wants to. We have no indication this has ever happened in the history of the world, yet today it is okay simply because people want to cover for the lack of revelation.
You true believing Mormons I want you to count the times that Jesus Christ is talked about in your next church meeting. I bet you they talk more about following the Prophet and less about Christ. This is not Christ's church. Throw out your Book of Mormon and study the true word of word of God, The BIBLE.
First off, you could show up on any given Sunday and that number will sway wildly because there are often different doctrines or principles being discussed. We believe the Constitution of the United States was inspired by God but it doesn't mention God or Jesus once. The principles are good though and we believe they are pleasing to God. I don't think I've attended church to where I haven't heard God the Father or Jesus Christ mentioned. The core thing we go to church for is to partake of the sacrament and remember the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. I don't think that simply counting words is a legitimate way of proving anything. Let's say we had an entire meeting discussing the parables of Jesus without mentioning his name once, except for an opening and closing prayer. What would the subject of that meeting have been? Jesus's parables, his teachings. Do we need to say the name of Jesus 500 times in that meeting? If we are teaching his principles are we not pointing to him? Now, yes, every now and then there's a fifth Sunday meeting about self reliance or something but you have to look at the big picture and not just cherry pick a random Sunday. I've heard this argument many times and, yes, I have witnessed on rare occasions a meeting where there was very little talk about Jesus compared to other times. That should be avoided but sometimes things aren't planned as well as they could be and that could be a result of leadership in a particular ward. But I agree with you that we do have our share of dumb teachings and foolish phrases like "follow the prophet" and "covenant path" and while I understand what is meant by those phrases and think you could make some arguments as to why they have some validity, I personally think they are more distracting and unnecessary than helpful. I do disagree with you on the Book of Mormon though, it is full of Christ and his word, but beyond that, it's a sign that Christ is beginning to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant and gather Israel for the final time. This indicates that we are truly living in the last days and should expect to his all of the prophecies related to it in the Bible beginning to be fulfilled. It's also a record of another people that he made promises to on this land and that they, like the Jews, will return to the land of their inheritance.
There are more serious issues which I won't report. I don't want to sideline good members. I eventually Discussed this in prayer. I didn't like the answer but it is spot on accurate regarding the leaders. The answer, "The church is at critical mass". The priesthood has been restored. The legitimate authorized Priesthood is world wide. If a leader puts the church at risk, things will happen. Personalities, of the leaders, are not an issue. The ONLY issue is AUTHORITY. The CoJC of LDS is the ONLY Authorized church on earth in-spite of humans, running it. Humans are NOT perfect and can never be until departing the Mortal body.
The Church is perfect. It is a covenant from God. Men are not perfect. If you want to Nit Pick and tarnish your spirituality, that is your business and, as the bible states, you will reap your rewards. Everything you claim is twisted and perverted. I have very little respect for the 122 leaders. I won't reveal why. However, the Church is perfect in-spite of imperfect humans running it. I don't pound sand. It appears you do. If you are happy with what you are doing, that is all that matters. So, why rip on our Heavenly Fathers only authorized church? It accomplishes nothing. What you focus on is what you will become. I suggest you quite being so Negative and committing battery against the church. Such actions won't change the church, but will change you.
I was vague intentionally. No need to put people testimonies at risk. The church is true. The Church has authority from God. Men are not perfect. Father knows this. I prayed about the issue. I received an answer of which I did not exactly favor. However, it was spot on accurate. Fortify your testimony. Were are in the phase, Satan released and ruling. The number of HATE channels of the Church on youtube is shocking. However, It strengthens my testimony. I describe it this way. Satan doesn't bash his buddies. No other church is bashed, maligned or hated. One sneaky hate channel "Mormon Discussions" is anti but pretends to be pro to seduce people. They make 400K annually bashing the church. Don't look into the hate channel unless you have an Nuclear Bomb proof testimony.
Do you know what a non-sequitur is? What you have typed here is one. What do I mean? You do not know what the definition of Priesthood is. Priesthood is an association of men, who are priests. As a priest, in a group of priests, you are in a priesthood. If you took the time to actually read what Joseph Smith wrote, you would see it was Faith that is the Power of God, not some nonsensical misuse of terms conflating the word priesthood. The wrong definition of priesthood and faith blind the entire church from the truth and make all the ordinances for naught, even the ones that might be valid.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Absolutely Spot on. The Church is Christ. The Priesthood is Christs Authority to act in capacities to officiate over the church and perform Priesthood duties such as: Baptism, bishops, stake presidents, patriarchs, etc... That is why LDS are different. All other churches Popped out of the Magicians hat and falsely claimed authority. LDS claim Restored which is logical and consistent with the Bible unlike all 48,000+ christian denominations who receive their authority from governments of the Earthly world.
ISAIAH CHAPTER 1 2...I have reared sons, brought them up, but they have revolted against me. 3 The ox knows its owner, the a$$ its master’s stall, but Israel does not know; my people are insensible. (look up Margaret Barker on this phrase. She says these sons were literally men made kings, brought up by God, yet they rebelled against him. "a$$" in Hebrew is a wordplay that means royal priesthood, a very obvious wordplay by Isaiah. She says these rulers no longer have wisdom nor do they understand. Gileadi says that a$$ represents an unclean animal symbolic of the Gentiles) 4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children: they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned the Holy One of Israel, they have lapsed into apostasy. (Gileadi says this deffinatly refers to the LDS covenant people and when you realize that the entire chapter 1 of Isaiah connects section by section, so there is no doubt that the whole thing is condemning the LDS ) 5 Why be smitten further by adding to your waywardness? The whole head is sick, the whole heart diseased. 6 From the soles of the feet even to the head there is nothing sound, only wounds and bruises and festering sores; they have not been pressed out or bound up, nor soothed with ointment. (the center of the chapter is the highlight / chiasm center: YOUR HANDS ARE FILLED WITH BLOOD WASH YOURSELVES CLEAN (Read the whole chapter as talking about LDS) Believe Isaiah, believe Joseph Smith, believe the Book of Mormon, Believe the D&C that has not been corrupted.
You will better understand the change to the food system when you go to Costco and shelves are stocked with insects and lab grown meat. We are not there yet, but work is proceeding. Controlling food is another way to control the people.
En pointe as always my blessed brother. We are seeing the fulfillment of Isaiah 28. Hosea 9:7-9 . I can dismantle the Brighamite church and all LDS sects with 3 chapters of the Book of Mormon. Moroni 8: The baptism of little children is an evil abomination-Little children are alive in Christ because of the Atonement-Faith, repentance, meekness and lowliness of heart, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end lead to salvation. About A.D. 401-21. Jacob 2: Jacob denounces the love of riches, pride, and unchastity-Men may seek riches to help their fellowmen-The Lord commands that no man among the Nephites may have more than one wife-The Lord delights in the chastity of women. About 544-421 B.C. 3 Nephi 11: 39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. 40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them. We are at the exact same place Joseph was 200 years ago: Which of these churches shall I Join? The answer is exactly the same now as then. None! All organized religion is false thus saith the Lord your God. We are at the cleansing of the church. It happens from the bottom up, grass roots under my leadership calling for votes of common consent for the removal of the Drunkards of Ephraim. Only one of two things is true: I am a delusional madman or I am the son of Jacob, 21st century holder of that ancient birthright; the hidden king of the Israelites- David Elias de Peri-Christ the prophet. The Davidic servant Esias, the spokesman. Either way I am humbly your servant. #TheSonOfJacob #kingDavidAPrince #iAmEliasTheProphet# #KingOfTheIsraelites
Please don’t allow your pride to hinder your desire for truth. I feel for many that just because they have discovered truths that the majority, the world, are ignorant to, they feel they have been put on a pedestal by God far above that calling which they in reality received. I do not want to blindly dismiss the claims from the end of your comment. However, I have seen dozens, if not hundreds, of men and women I feel to be in good faith and intentions, making similar claims all contradicting one another, the scriptures, and often themselves. If you are called by God to know a higher truth then you have every right to exercise that calling, but I plead with you to evaluate yourself as an outsider, to humble yourself as a dirty rag before God, and to make sure above much else that you are not magnifying your calling above that which you were called.
@@jestubbs69 those are my top three scripture references as well, all from the Latter-day Saints' own scriptures, that do reveal very clearly their modern fallacy. Another word, and this I know completely- the true Servant does not go around campaigning and seeking to convince others of his calling. He simply acts in authority and does God's will, speaking in power and the true Spirit. People will begin recognizing him over time, but he WILL NOT campaign for recognition as you do. He has no need to testify of himself, but only of his master. The Servant is not greater than his Master. Therefore, I know you are not him. He is finishing his preparation and remains hidden for now anyway. You testify of yourself, therefore your master, the Devil, is pleased with you. Change course my brother- testify of the true Master in one Jesus of Nazareth, and none other, especially not yourself
There are some of your points that make sense however when I got to the part where you said all our Sunday lesson formats are scripted and the Elders Quorum and Bishoprics couldn’t use their own inspiration/revelation that is just plain wrong. For the most part Elders Quorums have one Sunday a month they can direct the instruction. It is true they can select from conference talks etc., but they have latitude depending on local needs. Bishops have discretion in different situations as well. That’s when I quit listening because you seem to be disconnected from the whole push for personal revelation and responsibility that President has promoted from the beginning.
So because I may have 1 thing wrong out of 10 then you discounted the other 9 evidence? Does that make sense to you? I literally said that if you didn't like one just skip to the next. The pattern is more important than the specifics. You also agreed with me though so I am not sure why you discounted it. I also never said it was impossible to deviate so I am frankly not sure as to the problem.
I don’t always agree with Patrick, but I agree with his comment above. If there is anything I’ve learned in life, it’s that only God gets everything right. But it is certainly worth hearing people out, and then we can formulate our own thoughts and conclusions. I am glad that of all Nelson’s teachings, personal revelation and responsibility has stood out to you. I think that is the best advice the man has given the church.
It really depends on how strictly any member or bishopric follows the handbook. I've seen meetings follow the spirit and some follow in a rigid form void of the spirt.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism This is the definition of scripture mingled with the philosophies of men. You aren't appointed to be teaching this to people as if its something to apply into their testimonies. It is a huge deal that you are getting things wrong in your videos if it means that people are misguided by them. if you don't like it then skip to the next? How about, tell people to read the Book of Mormon and not, don't go to your church meetings because they don't teach them very good? You are promoting view points that can cause people to lose the entirety of their faith in Christ. You should be ashamed of yourself
Lets see. Do I want to follow the Prophet and the Apostles or do I want to listen to and believe a blogger who says we shouldn't do what the Prophets tell us? It is like what is happening with a lot of scholars in the church who say that we should believe them and that Joseph didn't really know. Sorry I will follow the Prophet who I believe knows a lot more and is much more inspired than some blogger who thinks he knows more than the brethren.
Your highly emotional reaction is actually the problem in this case. You approached this with no logic only emotion. Did not every generation that went into apostasy, "go to church" and "follow the prophet". How are we any different than any other generation?
Jesus specifically said to test anyone who claims to be a prophet. It's not a given. Anyone can give themselves a title. Please study the scriptures. They show the patterns. They contain the warnings.
I would also caution some of those in the Mormon stories podcasts are scoffing at prophecies regarding these "Revelations" times we find ourselves in. Particularly Bill Reel or Rill or however his last name is spelled.
Many leave Mormonism and then become atheist or whatever. However I honestly think Mormonism left me. I still believe in almost all of it. I just see things differently now. There is a lot of truth in Mormonism including the Book of Mormon. People on Mormon Stories can attack this or that for attention. However, it takes significantly more work to search through things and discover that truth.
These are the words and arguments of an apostate. Most of the logic used here is problematic to what any church or large organization would have in a growing, progressive world such as ours. I think it would be near impossible for any leader to meet the expectations of anyone who thinks in these channels. Yes, we all struggle against unseen powers, dominions, kingdoms, principalities, etc. that makes rules for our lives. People in this world are all imperfect, yet the Lord allows and expects each of us to judge truth for ourselves and to make the best choices. Personally, I'm glad we don't all think alike and that our Lord is willing to meet each of us where we are and help us from time to time as we continue to learn ways of walking in His paths through the darkness of this life.
I am an apostate because I see issues in the current LDS church. This is the core problem I think. To be faithful is to see no problems and "stay in the boat". Do you honestly think Christ would accept people that like in his kingdom? I may be wrong about a few things, however I am willing to stake it all on my beliefs and my faith and trust in God. What are you willing to sacrifice for God?
important not to focus on the particulars, but the whole picture? this whole video is debating things like why can't we just watch a video in sacrament meeting. This is miles beyond the mark of strengthening personal testimony. The church is in apostasy because the podium is two steps higher than the congregation?? what does that have to do with the the gospel of Jesus Christ? People leave the church because they are unwilling to develop their personal testimonies. The excuse is always "something made me leave". Yeah its not because you just aren't willing to follow the principles of the gospel. Don't kid yourselves. Christ is your only landline in this life and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints if His organized church. You are giving up on yourselves not the other way around.
I think you may be commenting on a different video from the one you watched. Your comments don't make any sense in relation to what I said. I like though how you are referencing ancillary points I made, but failed to reference a single main point. Do you want to pick a main topic and we can discuss it more?
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I literally quoted things you said in your video. you made a whole point about the leaders being literally higher that the congregation. how is that a sign to be alarmed that the church is in apostasy?? Maybe its so that we can see the speaker in sacrament meeting. And pick a main topic??This is way off the path my man. Advising people to leave the church is wrong. Read the Book of Mormon more. Your creating stumbling blocks for yourself. And for other people now too!
@@jarrinpruett4501 Again you are focusing on ancillary points and ignore the main one. I believe they call this a straw man argument. 😃 In section #4, I mention how we: 1. Spiritually elevate our leaders 2. Talk about their thoughts and opinions 3. Physically elevate them 4. Need their approval before doing things 5. Need their approval to go to the temple 6. Need their approval to repent Why are you focusing on #3? Is it because you know the rest of the points are true already? What I actually said: "This is also manifest in seemingly small ways including how the Bishop and his councilors sit on the stand during a meeting. In this case, they are literally physically separated and elevated from the congregation for no reason at all." I don't mind logically engaging, however we really should be honest with each other.
The gospel is; Faith in Jesus Christ, Baptism, Repentance, Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and Endure to the end. Oh but what should a family do if they are dying and can't afford a single cent of tithing? yeah maybe they just shouldn't believe in God anymore.
56:11-12 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds. They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage. Come, [they say,] let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better! Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves. Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10). God's got nothing good to say about your leaders!
I love seeing anyone (their numbers are few) who use their knowledge and intelligence to test, explore, and validate life. Unfortunately, these people are vastly outnumbered by the masses of people who are well indoctrinated.
@@ernestcook4285 One interesting thing is that the “very few people” you mentioned firmly believe that the only people that can be possibly indoctrinated are the others. It’s like, no not me, I am indoctrination proofed and thus I can seat and tell who is and who is indoctrinated.
Galatians 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. May our Father in Heaven, give us eyes to see & ears to hear, so we may discern, from right & wrong! Being a member, I prayed multiple times, asking our Father, to show me tbe truth about the Church. I was led to many scriptures & looked at many things, the church does. In the temple, the creation movie, Lucifer tells Adam, that his apron is his Priesthood, then they stop the movie, & tell the members, to put on their aprons, the priesthood of Lucifer! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? So glad, that never went through the temple! I wouldve run out so fast! Another thing, they have a golden Moroni idol on the temple! Secret ceremony, what does the bible say about that?! Jesus had the apostles drink the wine & eat tbe bread, in no way did he say for us to do it! So many things to add, but I will stop here, as everyone should pray & ask for proof, the church deceives it's members! Our Father will help you with discernment! May our Father bless us all & keep us safe from harm! Lots of Love to our Father & to All My Brothers and Sisters❣ May you all find the Truth! Get out of the False Re-Legions! 🙏🥰🙏🏾
Interesting video. The LDS church was an apostasy since the beginning. The Book of Mormon seems logical and sounds like ‘Another Testimony of Jesus Christ’, but Joseph Smith would later describe a Jesus radically different from the Bible Jesus which seems more like a ‘testimony of another Jesus Christ’. Apostle Paul warns of teaching another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. As evidenced by how mormons desecrate Jesus after every Sunday service when the left over 'blessed and sanctified' bread and water is thrown out like common trash, but carefully and respectfully remove the non-biblical satanic freemasonic symbols from old worn out underwear/garments before disposal. You do a great job quoting scripture, but don't seem to know the 'true' meaning.
The leader has ALL of the keys! What is God wanted that change even if it was not in the handbook? Stop relyung in your iwn wisdom because you dont have any, apostate!!!
This comment cracks me up. Try thinking, try investigating. You must be an agent unto yourself, listen to Carl Sagen “If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth.”
I saw the church change over the years. I honestly feel I joined the church my mother in law grew up in. She had wonderful stories of growing up in a tight knit Mormon community in Nephi Utah. She witnessed and experienced miracles and Divine experiences.
I was reading and searching all the older books that the church sold. I loved all of the stories of miracles, free agency, and personal revelation. I loved how we were encouraged to question what our leaders said. Wether they were speaking for God or as a man. Meaning, was it inspiration or his opinion. David O’McKay was supposedly famous for this.
I loved we were encouraged to discern the truth is for ourselves. It makes for a stronger member and a solid church.
I left in 2008ish. It was hard. I raised my children in thee church. I sincerely believed it with all my heart and did my very best to live it and teach my children to do the same.
I had been unhappy in the church for sometime . I felt the Spiritual side was being replaced with things that were what the world would consider more acceptable.
I really felt the loss of the Spiritual side of the church. I felt as if the church was missing what had set it apart and made it something I could grow closer to God with.
I left during what I heard was the first wave of the most recent Apostasy. Making me think I am not the only person to have noticed and missed the things of the Spirit.
Having said that, I believe there are many in the church who still have the Spirit with them. There are people like me who love the stories of miracles and have experienced some themselves. I wonder how much longer they will stay as the church drifts further into a more corporate, sanitized way of functioning.
I fully agree with you. It is very hard. I think it is far more important as to the type of person you are than the church you are a member of.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism yes! Much more important to have a good heart than be a temple wielding Mormon
The answers are all found in Isaiah! Avraham Giliadi is a Jewish convert to the church and has decoded what Isaiah says in scripture. It was a relief to me to understand what the heck was happening to the church I knew years ago. Avraham can be found online at the Isaiah Institute or book of Mormon Isaiah. It's worth the effort to study it out and will be a tender mercy to your soul.
Not gonna lie. It’s refreshing to see each of these points. Things I’ve been pondering for some time now. Thanks for making the effort.
It is important to find that we are not alone.
Great points, quite persuasive if we would only allow ourselves any ounce of introspection as a people. These are the kinds of discussions that SHOULD be happening every 2nd hour of church.
I wish. In EQ I remember having really good discussions that I wish could go for much longer. However it changed into "What did X say about Y". Always the same. Read this portion of the talk and then go to the next portion.
Succinct and straight to the points. Well done.
Thanks.
It dawned on me about 6 years ago. There are no lessons from the scriptures. All lessons from the teachings from the prophets, yep and conference talks. It helped me realize some of the serious downfall of the church. By the way, I threw away every book except the teachings of Joseph Smith. I only read scriptures and definitely do not blindly believe D&C. When my prophet encorcourged everyone to take the vac's. That was the nail in the coffin. People blindly follow and don't use their own discernment. Is that so they can try and use that as an excuse to not have accountability for our own actions. How come a person will not use their full agency?
Wow! The vacks was a big red flag!!!!
I noticed the same thing and though it was strange. Endlessly discussing those manuals from the life of each church president. I think it is mostly because people don't want to lead or do their own work. They want to be told and want it to be easy. In many ways the church is hurting themselves, however in many other ways they are doing the best they can because the members themselves are the problem.
@@AvadenSV I can dig that. Freedom is not the right to do what you want, its the right to do what you should. One is the lesser law and one is the higher. I dont like Mormonism, but from a Platonic perspective, I get what the charlatan is saying.
@CJ-hw6br I recon so. I view just about every decision we make as having some moral impact. Right down to what you ate for breakfast.
I don’t think the members are the problem. I noticed before I left that they were hungry for things of the Spirit.
I believe the church left the members. They quit teaching what had set it apart originally and made it unique.
But as I learned of the history, I do see how the leaders were always Fallible. The only mistake the members make is not believing they are allowed to question wether the leadership is speaking as a man or as the mouthpiece of God at the time.
We should always question. Even Nephi questioned his father in the Book Of Mormon and took his concerns to God for personal revelation before following Lehi’s plan.
Hey, let me say a hearty congrats on this video! You've got the Corporate Church Squarely Identified here! Bravo!
Thank you.
Apostacy does not require the wholesale abandonment of truth. Instead, it merely requires slow, small corruptions to the truth delivered through a dispensation head. Apostacy never came by renouncing the gospel, but always by corrupting it. Hugh Nibley, Temple and Cosmos, 1991, p 395.
Excellent quote. A small change here then there and eventually you have something totally different.
36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.
38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies-because of the praise of the world?
39 Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not?
40 Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads?
41 Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.
Mormon 8:36-41
Can you say Conference Center? Church office buildings? City Creek?
The usage of tithing funds was also twisted as was how tithing was to be calculated. JST Genesis 14:38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes for the poor. 39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.
Tithing was for the care of the poor and the needy. Fast Offerings never should have been.
Now lets talk about the overly large living stipend the brethren receive... The book deals etc...
Nahorism is alive and well in the Church and the law of consecration is dead.
"3 And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people."
Alma 1:3
"16 Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor."
Alma 1:16
"26 And when the priests left their labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man according to his strength.
27 And they did impart of their substance, every man according to that which he had, to the poor, and the needy, and the sick, and the afflicted; and they did not wear costly apparel, yet they were neat and comely.
28 And thus they did establish the affairs of the church; and thus they began to have continual peace again, notwithstanding all their persecutions."
Alma 1:26-28
Kind of clear when you read the scriptures...
Exactly. LDS members are willfully ignorant when they refuse to apply the words of the BoM to themselves. It all makes sense when you realize that they were writing to us specifically, the only people in the modern world would seriously read their words.
Good points. I too have been concerned about some of these issues. And I've been in bishopric and ward council meetings where ideas have been shot down because it didn't comport with the handbook.
I was ward clerk twice and saw the same thing. Any kind of question and they would consult the handbook.
I really liked your remark about how we shouldn’t be reiterating the words of men over and over again. I never did like that they do conference-based lessons and talks. I also felt it was wrong to call those talks scripture. Maybe it’s because I always read and loved the scriptures, and conference talks simply do not compare. But I feel I understand somewhat better now-canonized scripture has to be vetted and even voted on. Calling conference talks “scripture” is a false tradition, and sadly, some conference talks actually contradict the actual scriptures.
Same. Theyre are many nice words in many cases but NOT scripture. And I did wonder why no more sections in the D &C. It's cool that some mormon groups add to their scripture!
@@morjulies I challenge people with this question: If you heard only the words of the talk, not knowing who or where they were spoken, would you really be able to differentiate them from any other televangelist?
I don’t like anti Mormon stuff but I did like this video I’ve been in the church for 44 years and boy haven’t I seen some changes I won’t mention them all but one change really stands out is those on very low incomes didn’t have to pay any tithing at all now that’s been changed and you can be in dire straits as I was when my husband died and I had to pay tithing before I could get any help I went through hell and back it was horrendous.
Thanks. I don't consider myself "anti", but I do seek truth wherever it can be found. Many are naturally afraid of stepping outside of the LDS bubble. However, in many ways I feel the LDS church has left correct principles.
As far as tithing though, it is telling that it is a temple recommend question and a yearly declaration. Money is very important for the church. Requiring poorer people to pay tithing before they can access assistance from the church is literally to "grind the faces of the poor". Many will be unable to live God's higher way of consecration because they trust in their own riches more than they trust in God. They would rather work for their own gain rather than the gain of their neighbor.
I don’t think if it as anti. Outside sources are good and healthy for the church and its members
What was instituted as 10% of your increase annually after expenses, meant 10% of your excess calculated annually. Now they want 10% of gross. Tithing was not to be hard.
Very well done. You have opened my eyes even further. God bless you!
Thank you. I like a lot of your content honestly.
Ever since I heard your podcast about the Kirkland Temple, I’ve been your fan. Thanks for your effort and resources as you prepare good 👍 content. This most recent episode is right up there. 😊
Thank you. I certainly hope my content is helpful to people.
I am greatly enjoying it!@@uncorrelatedmormonism
I stopped going to RS and Sunday School years ago when I realized the manuals and the conference talks were the focus. Even Come Follow Me is selective with scripture and paraphrases them. It's become a lazy way to live where we don't think for ourselves, don't search on our own, and don't ask God for confirmation. All is not well in Zion. Thank you for these 10 items. Great research work.
I do find it very strange that in the LDS church we talk about conference so much. We hear about a conference talk in almost every sacrament meeting and then in RS/EQ again. It certainly encourages leader worship.
Someone somewhere in the leadership has to recognize this is a fundamental problem in the church.
@@NanetteONeal You're not alone. I concur .
@@uncorrelatedmormonism i believe this is systematically done on purpose as an agenda to lead us astray as prophecied in the scriptures. 2Nephi 28
Conference always reminds me in Jeremiah where he talks about "empty vessels "
I find it fascinating that while some of us find these questions and facts relevant others don’t want to even think about them. In fact I know many people who wouldn’t want to even acknowledge a single contradiction you’ve presented here for fear of being in apostasy. I am a believer that we are children of God given minds with the ability to analyze and assess reality as best we can and make judgements based on those findings. If the Lords plan is for us to blindly follow at every step and worship in the form of ordinances and works to earn the fulness of His glory it contradicts The Word. Jesus Christ spoke clearly about many of the things you’ve presented here and other contradictions the current membership frequently practice and sustain. To add to your list I would say that there is no other man who stands at the gate of Gods presence than Jesus Christ. He is the way and it is narrow and hard to believe. The church’s attempt to make the way difficult by adding requirements and works to be worthy of God is misdirected and actually easier for the natural man to embrace as the way to God. To only rely on and trust that a relationship with Jesus Christ gets you all that the temple promises requires a lot of faith!!!!
Thank you. Yes, I have seen more than once people are willing to see this or that, however it always stops at a certain point because they are afraid of the implications. People do this all the time in many areas of life. They don't want to rock the boat and want "all is well" mentality.
Wheat and tares. Wheat and tares.
@@rhone733 not your calling or job my friend
Hard to argue with this.
Actually it's quite easy. I've already done so several times in the comments.
Repent and believe in the biblical Jesus!
On number 8, my extended family refused all vaccinations. During covid before and after. We had family reunions. NONE of us got sick from that. Wouldn't you say that was a miracle? Our doctors sure thought so.😊
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints cannot escape this one fact, and whether you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet or not, or that he received this revelation or not, you will be amazed at what I am about to tell you.
The very first words that were reported to have been received from the Lord, in this dispensation of time, was recorded in July of 1828, and can be found in the Church’s first attempt to publish the Doctrine and Covenants, in a book with the title of: A Book of Commandments, of 1833. Those words can be found in chapter II of that Book, where the Lord is reported to have told Joseph Smith that His (the Lord’s words) never “vary from that which He hath said”. The Lord is then said to have explained his purposes for the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon.
This revelation is written in response to Joseph Smith and Martin Harris losing the first 116 pages they translated from the Book of Mormon. Joseph was told not to re-translate the part they had lost, because of a “Cunning Plan” Satan had, to influence those that then had the 116 pages, to “alter” the words so that they would read “contrary” to how they were meant to be understood. That “Cunning Plan” is meant to destroy the work of the Lord, in not only the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon, but also in destroying its true purpose.
Joseph was told to repent of his bad behavior and he would be allowed to continue on with the translation, with the only one gift he was ever to be given. He was told to NOT pretend to any other gifts, for he would not be given any other gift. (period!)
Joseph Smith supposedly repented, and was allowed to finish the work of translating the rest of the Book of Mormon, which was later published in 1830. Joseph read what he translated, and imagined it was all about him, and began to return to his past bad behavior, and fell for that “Cunning Plan” by altering the words he said the Lord revealed to him in his first revelations. He contradicts what the Lord had told him, about his gift, and the purposes of the Book of Mormon. These and many other contradictions can be found in the records, scriptures, and teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Especially, in the practices of “Dead Works” done in the temples that contradict what the Holy Ghost revealed to Mormon, in the Book of Mormon, of the Lord’s words, concerning the baptism of “little children”, and those that “die without a knowledge of the gospel”. The Lord has warned those that put their trust in “Dead Works”! Which “Dead Works” mock the Lord’s mercy of his atoning sacrifices for “little children” and “those that die without a knowledge of the gospel”, and which also denies the power of his Holy Spirit!
Please take care that you do not contradict what the Lord has already told us, and that you do not follow that “Cunning Plan”. It is written, in the Book of Mormon, that the Lord will send his servant to tell his brethren these things, but they will not believe him. He says they will mar him, but they will not hurt him. That servant was not Joseph Smith, because they not only hurt him, they killed him! But the Lord said that He (the Lord) will heal his servant, for He will show unto them (those that do not believe), that His (the Lord’s) wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil!
The more I learn, the more correct this sounds. Joseph had a great work, but I do believe he went past what God wanted him to. I am not sure specifically what this was, but certainly Nauvoo was an abomination and part of Kirtland was also.
Where in the scriptures does it say the Bishop takes the sacrament first? (It doesn't)
The handbook has become scripture now.
When you want to exalt your leaders instead of allowing them to be servants as they should be, you start with the local leaders and it extends to the upper crust of leadership. It leads to idol worship, which is in full effect.
There are admissions from Mormon and Moroni that there are errors made in the Book of Mormon but these are the weaknesses and mistakes of men and not of God.
This takes all conference talks to a level of precepts unto themselves and that do not regard weakness or mistake.
I agree with many of the points you have made here that the Church is often placing itself at the gates of Heaven to approve or disapprove entry whereas so many places in scripture that Jesus is at the gate and employs no servant there and through Him therefore guidance and revelation is active
Yes instead of being a vehicle to God it has become a stumbling block on the path to God.
Poem written by Scout, it is called "Temple" I sit in the temple lobby and cry avoiding contact with the eyes of the women dressed in white, I watch my best friends go right on ahead, the front desk told me my recommend wasn't valid as if I didn't already feel distant from my friends battling all these doubts in a foreign country, too scared to let the truth come out as if they wouldn't want to be friends with me or instead try to convince me to stay in a place that feels like poison sometimes, the lobby chairs are comfortable but not as comfortable as sitting in a room with your friends, doing what they say will save millions without breaking a sweat, I wish I wouldn't let it get to me but there are tears on my cheeks and I am lonely siting in the lobby just thinking Jesus will let me in.
I took this poem from the video "Father/Daughter Defend LDS Church, Then Leave It - Ryan & Scout Fisher - Nephite Explorer | Ep. 1937" In the Mormon stories channel.
The worthiness concept in Mormonism is so hard for a lot of people. There are some who think they are worthy when they are not and then others who feel so unworthy yet they are amazing people.
I believe it should be up to the individual and God. If you want to approach God then you should be able to. We don't need gatekeepers.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism That is the way it should be.
No! I am not saying that all all! One should always think for himself, but you are many one in a million that thinks that it would be strange for a bishop to look something up in a handbook! Could you imagine that on every issue all the bishops would pray about it, and I wonder how many different conclusions there would be!!! Did you pray about this apostate video, and if so did you right the revelation down?!? Do you really think that this apostate video is helping or hurting the church?!?
I came to the same conclusions by myself. It's good to find those same considerations from other faithful and mind-free disciples of Jesus.
It is a hard pill to swallow at first.
I have my personal options on all of this, more in general, but it's fascinating. I bet i could have done great conversations with you. One of the most important things to ever come from the GC pulpit is president Nelson, about not surviving the coming days without the Spirit. I was EQ Pres in my branch and i generally taught from the conference talks. But i always addressed personal concerns. I really had awesome lessons. I used the GC talk as a platform and never really taught the "lesson" by reading the talk. The Spirit, when understood correctly, is the most powerful piece that we can have when it comes to the Gospel. It is the defender of truth and confirms Christ and Heavenly Father's position in the great plan of happiness. There may be some nuance in very particular items, but i would general agree with you. I love the Lord and i love His children. The church will never save you, the prophet can't save you, it's only Christ. We forget the true purpose of the atonement and sacrifice our salvation for the treasure of the world.
I generally agree with you. I think things are a bit more complicated than this though. Of course Christ is the only way. However the church seems to be hellbent on getting in the way of Christ.
I have spoken to people who believe that the church/president are doing this on purpose to "test" the members. However, I find that a bit silly. I think it is way more likely that the church is doing what they think is good in their eyes and they have gone apostate like almost every other group in the history of humanity.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I just watched your first video. I wanted to see why you started this channel. Fascinating for sure. I'm active LDS living in Texas. I moved here during covid lockdowns from NM. We did things out of respect but it wasn't at the peril of your membership. On the other hand my sister in Omaha went through something similar to you. It has shaped the way that I understand the church. We, the church or people or civilization get exactly what we ask for. That's a 3 hour conversation though. I share your love for the Gospel and learning. When I put my UA-cam channel together, I'm sure I'll upset everyone and won't have any friends left. I think things are much different than we really understand. Kinda like the matrix...
Anyways, you seem like a genuine person. I hope we can talk more. Thanks for letting me understand you a bit better. I'm sure we won't agree on everything, but I'll listen and I am sure I have a ton to learn from you my friend
@@michaelwhipple347 Yes we do get exactly what we want whether good or bad. I am off and on active on LDS Freedom Forum (username Telavian). There is a wide mix of people there from diehard, to nomo and in between. I personally am in between. I really like the LDS church, however I feel like it is leaving true principles and I am not leaving it.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism that forum is overwhelming... LoL. I don't get on forums unless directed to a specific topic. I did sign up as XsNrg.
I always learn a lot from your videos. You have such a comfortable, relaxed and effective presentation style. You also present things very fairly and in such an organized way. I’m also glad you enabled comments, as I often get a lot out of reading others’ responses and thoughts as well. I sometimes feel starved for this kind of discussion and hearing others’ thoughts about these things I’ve wondered about. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks!! Your work is appreciated.
Christ taught to obey the laws of the land!!! It is also my experience from dealing with many apostates like you, that behind their front, they are too weak to keep the commandments as they should, so they attack the church as if somehow that would take the condemnation off of them! By the way, I know it wasn't from a manual, but you never did answer my question about the revelation from God that inspired you to come out with this apostate video!!!
Let me tell you something else! READ Daniel chapter two! It is obvious the this church will fill the whole earth, and I want to be on that ship rather than listen to some apostate man who tried to say that the church is in apostasy! Let me tell you something, there is some individual apostasy in the church, but the scriptures are clear, the church will never go into apostasy like it did before!!! You can either get on that little stone that keeps growing, or it will roll over you and crush you!!!
You are assuming the LDS church is the stone, which is an incorrect assumption. You are also assuming the LDS church will never go astray, which is an incorrect assumption.
You may be shocked to understand the Joseph made up some of the revelations and changed others. The LDS church is in apostasy. You can ignore that if you want, but every argument you are making is the same argument every other generation has made.
We can't go astray because we are God's chosen.
We have the truth so we are better than everyone else.
We have a prophet so everything he says is true.
New scriptures are being revealed. A new english version of the Book of Mormon has been produced through divine means. The Covenant of Christ is a great new work that makes the scriptures easy to understand for today's seekers.
I firmly reject that book along with Denver Snuffer. I would recommend you watch my video on the subject.
"19 And he commanded them that they should teach nothing save it were the things which he had taught, and which had been spoken by the mouth of the holy prophets" (Mosiah 18:19)
It is perfectly fine for the church to consent with the handbook.
There is a lot of this video that goes along the lines of "I think." I certainly have a different point of view as to what is going on in church eight now, but an accusation of apostasy has to be better than "I think"
True. However "I think" is at the heart of everything we do. Do you regularly explain multiple points to others without thinking it yourself?
You are focusing on a single item though and missing the other items. If "I think" about 10 different independent points, then it is certainly much stronger than a random statement out of nowhere.
You are also equating the handbook with the words of God. Why is this? If the handbook is not the words of "holy prophets" then why use the scripture as evidence? If it is the words of "holy prophets" then why do we not teach from such a divine work from the pulpit?
24:21 "My Bishop even directly told me that I was not to administer to sick people at that time." Weird. Could that have been a problem with your Bishop? Or a problem with you?? Why do you seem to immediately assume that it was a problem with the entire Church. No one ever told me not to administer to sick people during the pandemic.
To your point #8: I am 64 years of age and All My Life I have NEVER Ever seen this Priesthood thing ever heal Anyone from Anything! As Ephraim Hanks did over a century ago. However I believe that at least one of my prayers have been answered and that I have received some form of Revelation. Examples: Over 20 years ago, I was going through every book on Tape and CD at the North Ogden Library that I thought that sounded interesting and that I could learn something from. One book on CD that I picked up was a book called "How to Get Rich" by Donald Trump. Narrated by Barry Bostwick. I listened to the whole thing as I painted in an apartment for a rich landowner. I recognized what a Genius for Finance this man was. And so after finishing the last disc, I knelled down on the stairway of the apartment that I was working in and I said a heartfelt SIMPLE prayer to God. I said to God, that "This Could Be The Man, to straighten out and Save America?" I said, "God, If You agree, please make him Our President." I then lost track of Mr. Trump for several years and then one day years later, Suddenly there he was, coming down that Famous Escalator and proclaiming that he was indeed running for President! I Was Thrilled! And never looked back so to speak. And the Results speak for themselves! Now in 2024, and in answer to another prayer, he has been reelected with the Greatest victory in American History, which is Exactly what I asked for this summer, 2024! Now I'd better use another posting spot in case this one gets deleted. Next post coming up...
God is very much active in our lives. The problem in the LDS church though, is we ascribe certain things like Priesthood as the pathway to God. However, if we look then we can see the same thing in other churches. Many people are healed by a simple prayer of faith, yet the LDS church thinks they control this which is not true.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I've Never in my lifetime seen Anyone healed by a Faith Prayer. You have to have something more than Faith to divide water and move mountains. There must be some Code or applicable Pattern used by guys like Moses or Ephraim Hanks to do what they did. Without the proper code or combination, all the faith in the Universe just aint going to get things done. Faith that in the end, things will all turn out as they should is one thing, but actually making a Real measurable difference in someone's life or in the future of mankind via faith alone is Nonsense! As the age old scripture says: Faith without Works is Dead!
@@stevesworldisnumber1 "I've Never in my lifetime seen Anyone healed by a Faith Prayer."
It's likely because you never looked.
I just read Moroni 7, which is all about faith, and it never once mentioned priesthoods, codes, or special patterns. In the LDS church we read things into the text all the time that shouldn't be there. This is one of those cases. Read Moroni 7 without the concept of priesthood in your mind and see if that makes a difference.
"Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith believing that ye shall receive, behold, it shall be done unto you."
@@uncorrelatedmormonism If so, what is the Priesthood good for anyway! My Pat. Blessing specifically says that- By the power of "The Priesthood" I will go forth Doing the Impossible! What that thing is I Don't Know, but the "Priesthood" is specifically mentioned as The Power that I will hold forever! So you tell me, WHAT this Priesthood thing is? Anybody can have Faith in Anything, but that doesn't make it right or make something work. Frankly, I think that I Need Someone that I PERSONALLY KNOW who has Died to come and tell me what this Priesthood thing is as opposed to simple faith alone. Because someone that I KNOW who has died cannot be Faked. And someone that I KNOW has died does not need Oxygen or food or shelter and therefore is incorruptible because of the needs of any Mortal man. So, I pray for that ALL THE TIME! Faith Can move mountains and divide water and change water to New Wine. But there must be a mechanism for any event to be made to happen. Again Faith without works is dead. Lots of Lovey Dovey feelings just don't cut it!
@@stevesworldisnumber1 You keep referencing faith without works. However, the way you are describing things is more like works without faith. All you need is the "priesthood" and then you can do anything. I don't believe God works this way.
For some reason God will honor a blessing if you have the "priesthood", but he won't honor it if you have "faith". Your God sounds very strange to me.
Anyways, I did a video on the priesthood which you are welcome to watch. The conclusion was that the priesthood is real, however keys are not special access, but knowledge. The priesthood itself seems to be more of a managerial thing than a necessity to access God.
Yes, there's definitely internal strife. I noticed many don't actually ask God. I received visions and dreams, but they were ignored. I now only share them with the occasional individual if prompted, but definitely with non members as they listen more. I'm scared of the lack of revelation internally.
Something good to pay attention to, chief Midegah and the birch bark scrolls.
Official LDS doctrine are the scriptures and the official statements by the first presidency that are ratified by the twelve apostles and sustained by the church as a whole, and if a member of the church doesn't understand it or disagrees, then he should talk to the leaders about it! What has God told you about putting out this apostate video?!? Did you write that revelation down!?!
Link in the description. Thanks for watching. The LDS church is in apostasy and you can either follow God or man.
I always found it weird that we should stand when apostle walks into the room. And why none of them have ever addressed this. By saying please don’t stand when I come in the room I am just a man called to serve.
Thats what King Benjamin would say. He was a perfect example of what a leader should be like.
How would you know if a new "revelation" is valid and scriptural
This is really the only valid question and I am not sure if there is a clear answer. Many people have had "revelations" that later turned out to be bogus however people were willing to die for their belief in it.
I really don't know. The LDS answer is the "Holy Ghost" which I do understand. However that is a completely flawed metric because we can so easily be swayed. I think if it promotes freedom, loving God, and doing right by your neighbor then that is a good start.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism True, but does that not really lead to a lot of "new ageisms" that are just tropes that really don't add anything to the conversation? Like, should there not be revelations dealing with our cosmos, for instance, and our place in it? The Urantia Books claims such a thing, for instance. Or revelations about the destruction of our tribe, by things that are being promoted that are/will destroy our seed? Thanks for responding. Unless there is an intervention or reset soon, it is really going to get ugly - the moral decline has reached fever pitch
I do agree that there needs to be a religious reset. Historically we have seen some small and larger resets. The next one should be the biggest reset so far historically.
Yes my comment does lead to some "new ageisms". However, I do think a lot of Christ's true religion is going to be a bit too "new age" for a lot of people. The whole law of consecration is a bit new age as well as helping everyone in whatever way you can. Our entire western society is individualistic which is totally opposite of what Christ is.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Well it just got kicked up a notch with the Biden cartel weaponizing the courts against Trump and now the sham NY trial convicting him on 34 counts. This decade is off the charts, starting with Covid
You study it. You ponder it. You pray about it. And then you study it some more. You rely on your conscience and the whispering of the spirit. You determine what its asking of you. You look at the giver of the message. Do they boldly state the origin of their message and how they received it? Do they deliver the message and then depart? Do they demand your worship or make it about themselves?
All these patterns are in scripture. It's meant to be a test.
No thanks! I have studied Mormon history, Mormon doctrine and theology for more than 60 years, so I know all about the polygamy deniers, the race ban deniers, and other ignorant gospel deniers!!!
It's about maintaining control over the masses... as with any organized religion (faith-based belief in the supernatural) even if facts prove errors in the dogma. Man is never perfect and truth doesn't require faith, nor does it change. One should always question and learn - for themselves. One can be spiritual without religious affiliation.
27:26 "In retrospect, I was focusing on the ordinance and not on God." Hmmm. Interesting. Am I to understand that you believe all Saints do what you did when they attend the temple? This sounds like a personal problem to me.
The members of the church are not saints. Yes, I do believe that. If we were to focus on God more than we would realize how pointless most of our actions are.
Thank you for pointing out a previous problem of mine. I have since repented.
I've always thought it strange we have lessons dedicated to someone's thoughts about the scriptures. Why not study the scriptures.
Yes, we are essentially getting someone's opinion of someone's opinion.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism so... Study the opinion?
@@talkofchrist Yes that is exactly what I am doing.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism what makes the opinion you are studying more valuable to you than the opinion you refuse to study?
@@talkofchrist Why is it almost every comment from you has an undertone of condescension? I study many things and then come to a conclusion as to what I think is correct.
I don't automatically assume that because someone in leadership says something then it is true. Do you assume this?
I agree with you on most of this, but to play devil’s advocate can I just point out that you said there’s no more revelation, and then you said the conference talks are just words of men. Do you want to see revelation or have you decided yourself that modern words are not revelation? Because the church teaches conference talks are scripture.
If you knew the backstory to the conference talks, you would understand that they are not revelation, they are just very well formed talks.
Christ suddenly appearing in His temple and the return of Elijah just as Malachi prophesied! Do you have any other candidates, ignorant apostate?!? I am still waiting for you to expound upon your revelation from God and what he told you concerning this apostate video!!!
Joseph always spoke of Elijah as a future event. He never referenced the Kirtland temple visitation once.
So true about practicing belief and faith during covid. It virtual disappeard. Instead of an oportunity to demonstrate faith, leaders encourage us , to trust in the arm of flesh. See what Mark said in 16:17, 18 in the KJV of the bible and how this was repeated by Moroni word for word in Mormon 9:24.
The righteous are supposed to have signs follow them. Where are the signs now?
@@uncorrelatedmormonism So true, I guess signs are just for guiding traffic, now.
Patrick excelent post.
Thanks.
I am rufuting everything you are saying, but you don't even seem to be bright enough to see it! Just like your ignorance about the return of Elijah! This is not only recorded in D&C, but it is also recorded in his own history!!! Continued...
I did a video on Elijah's visit. I would recommend you watch it.
In your first example I feel sad for everyone involved. Sadly your bishop did the wrong thing. He acted out of fear not faith. I have come to understand through my birth to 66 years in the church that bishops are called for different reasons. Sometimes it's because the ward needs to learn some lessons. More often though it's because of what the bishop needs to learn. My sisters bishop actually shot live rounds into her car while kids were TPing his house. Thankfully, she had her window down and it diverted the bullets. One of the many shots bounced off the road and hit one of the kids in the face. His mom sued him and he counter sued my sister. He lost in court. But he remained bishop up until the court case, then he was finally released. Turns out Salt Lake believed his lies and never bothered to even talk to anyone else involved. Other members of the bishopric came to her house to try and smooth things over after the incident. They made excuses and her husband kicked them out of his house. And yes they are still active. This experience gave our whole family a new perspective on church leadership.
I am so sorry to hear this. This is absolutely terrible. Bishops are a reflection of the people. The people are sick so the church is sick also.
A further comment: I Never liked the Temple Oaths and Penalties stuff when I first went there. I was Frankly Shocked at these Barbaric Death Rituals! But I had to go along with it all even though it disgusted me, just to do the Missionary thing. And that never worked out very well anyway!
I have studied theology and Mormon doctrine for more than 69 years, so what do you know! Do you think God doesn't know what he is doing?!? When He has inspired something to be put in a Manuel, how do you think He would feel if every bishop started not paying attention and just praying about it?!? Stop being an apostate! Do you think this ignorant podcast will help the church?!? Did you pray about it?!? What did God tell you about putting out this apostate video?!? Stop relying solely on your own knowledge and wisdom because you have very little!!!
Your comment makes no sense and is the problem with Mormonism. You are essentially saying that we shouldn't think and instead just rely on the manual and the leaders.
I appreciate what you are trying to do and I generally support most of it. You might not be wrong about most of it, but there are some things I think you should get some pushback on - some constructive criticism.
First, ever since the beginning Lord has desired to speak to His children to give them special knowledge and power while on earth. Those sacred experiences were almost always done in a special place the Lord designated as holy and asked for his children to come there. Temples are our modern-day attempt at that. Current LDS temples are not perfect and the rites are lacking, I agree. However, they are the best we have currently, until the Lord comes again.
Second, the history of paying tithing in the latter-day church is somewhat dubious. However, in Israel's day, each male temple goer was expected to pay a yearly offering to the temple for them and their family. One could argue (quite successfully, I might say) that Jewish religious customs were also in a state of apostasy. However, Jesus did not have a problem with this, at least from the record we have in the NT.
Lastly, regarding sustaining church leadership, I would again agree with your sentiment but when I found myself being critical of Pres Nelson and the other Apostles, I felt like I wasn't feeling the Spirit as much in my life as I was used to. Maybe it was just me or maybe it was due to something else. However, once I learned something that really helped me put it into perspective and be more charitable towards them, I have been feeling much better. I still don't value their counsel as much as I used to but I no longer am critical of their choices. What helped me was a series on the Priesthood done by the Shattering Triangles group - check them out on YT and I think it would benefit anyone to listen to the series on Priesthood.
Thank you for the feedback.
1. I disagree that God need "special places". Can you show me an example of this? The Book of Mormon opens with Lehi praying and then have a divine experience "upon a rock". This was likely in the middle of nowhere and certainly not in a "special place".
2. I agree with tithing. However no where in the law does it say to pay tithing when you can't afford it. Does God want you to go into debt to pay tithing as a sign of faith? How is this different from the medieval days where peasants would be starving next to an incredibly ornate church.
3. I agree about President Nelson. I think God uses him for whatever he will allow God to do. I think he is an administrator more than a prophet, but he is still the leader of a large religious group. I don't believe I am more critical of him than any other leader. However I also don't think he should get a pass just because he calls himself a prophet.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Regarding point #1, there's a great podcast called Ancient Traditions that you probably will find enlightening.
@uncorrelatedmormonism the entire earth is a special place. God made it. The entire cosmos is a special place, God made it. A building made with hands man's can be special. But is nothing compared to the grandeur of being in the midst of the forests of the Grand Tetons mountain range......
@@TheBackyardProfessor Yes, anything can be sacred to us if we make it sacred. Imagine setting a room apart in your house only for sacred activities. That room then becomes a temple to you.
@@TheBackyardProfessor I tend to want to agree with you but there are ancient stories of even native people's being called to specific places to worship. Granted these are places that are not made by humans but they are specific places designated by the Creator God to learn from Him. If you haven't heard about it, there's a great podcast called The Ancient Tradition which really helped open my eyes about this.
Your apostasy is showing more and more! Having studied theology and Mormon doctrine for more than 60 years, I find your arguments lack substance, are weak, and are childish! From one who was Christened Catholic and has studied and attended do many other churches, I can say that the LDS church is the only true restored church of Jesus Christ exactly like it was set up in the primitive church just as Peter prophesied in Acts 3:19-21 as part of the "restitution of ALL things." What was restored! ALL things; the priesthood authority, the priesthood offices, the foundation of the church of prophets and apostles, modern revelation, modern scripture, the spiritual birth by the water and the Spirit or baptism and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, baptism for the dead, etc., continued...
If my arguments are weak and childish then it should be easy for you to demonstrate how they are wrong. Please go through each of my points and do so.
30:15 "I don't think that a financial sacrifice from the people who can afford it the least is what God wants... It should be from the people that can afford it the most." - seems to me like you misunderstand the word "sacrifice."
Are you saying that 10% from someone that has no money left over every month is on the same level as 10% from someone that buys designer items when their bored?
Certainly there is a difference, right? Alma certainly felt so in Mosiah 18.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism no. That's not what I'm saying.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I'm saying your suggestion that sacrifices ought to come from people that can afford them the most is a misunderstanding of the word (and purpose) of sacrifice.
@@talkofchrist I am saying you misunderstood what I was saying in an attempt to find something negative to say.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism and I'm saying you misunderstand sacrifice when you suggest it should come from people who can handle it and not from those who can't. Considering how much you appear to like Lectures on Faith, I would think you should be familiar with the quote, "a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation." 10% of income (however you want to define it for yourself) is the minimum to indicate to yourself that you might be able to make a sacrifice. But "all things" is what's required by the law.
It's so funy that so many antis think that the amount of Revelations received is strictly only based on the number of Revelations and times it was given according the cannon Revelations in doctrine and Covenants. This is a fualts way to go about it. Actually, the prophets from Joseph smith to President Nelson have recieved Revelations and it's up to them to decide if they want to give to give it to the saints, and if so they will add to doctrine and covenants or publish it separately. This has actually happened. There are 30 or so other documented Revelations in other papers and manuscript with "thus saith the lord" and most of them were never given to the saints however, some of them were. There us one from Joseph f smith in 1918.
It is funny that you think God works in secret. The LDS president, who is supposedly also a prophet, can receive revelations in secret and then just do whatever he wants to.
We have no indication this has ever happened in the history of the world, yet today it is okay simply because people want to cover for the lack of revelation.
interesting
Be must lead by the spirit not the handbook.
You true believing Mormons I want you to count the times that Jesus Christ is talked about in your next church meeting. I bet you they talk more about following the Prophet and less about Christ. This is not Christ's church. Throw out your Book of Mormon and study the true word of word of God, The BIBLE.
Do you believe that God will bring forth new scripture?
Jesus is often mentioned in "In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen"
First off, you could show up on any given Sunday and that number will sway wildly because there are often different doctrines or principles being discussed. We believe the Constitution of the United States was inspired by God but it doesn't mention God or Jesus once. The principles are good though and we believe they are pleasing to God. I don't think I've attended church to where I haven't heard God the Father or Jesus Christ mentioned. The core thing we go to church for is to partake of the sacrament and remember the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. I don't think that simply counting words is a legitimate way of proving anything.
Let's say we had an entire meeting discussing the parables of Jesus without mentioning his name once, except for an opening and closing prayer. What would the subject of that meeting have been? Jesus's parables, his teachings. Do we need to say the name of Jesus 500 times in that meeting? If we are teaching his principles are we not pointing to him?
Now, yes, every now and then there's a fifth Sunday meeting about self reliance or something but you have to look at the big picture and not just cherry pick a random Sunday. I've heard this argument many times and, yes, I have witnessed on rare occasions a meeting where there was very little talk about Jesus compared to other times. That should be avoided but sometimes things aren't planned as well as they could be and that could be a result of leadership in a particular ward.
But I agree with you that we do have our share of dumb teachings and foolish phrases like "follow the prophet" and "covenant path" and while I understand what is meant by those phrases and think you could make some arguments as to why they have some validity, I personally think they are more distracting and unnecessary than helpful.
I do disagree with you on the Book of Mormon though, it is full of Christ and his word, but beyond that, it's a sign that Christ is beginning to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant and gather Israel for the final time. This indicates that we are truly living in the last days and should expect to his all of the prophecies related to it in the Bible beginning to be fulfilled. It's also a record of another people that he made promises to on this land and that they, like the Jews, will return to the land of their inheritance.
And study it in the Hebrew like Joseph Smith did as well. Don't be like the lazy leaders and ignore the scriptures for the handbook.
There are more serious issues which I won't report. I don't want to sideline good members. I eventually Discussed this in prayer. I didn't like the answer but it is spot on accurate regarding the leaders. The answer, "The church is at critical mass". The priesthood has been restored. The legitimate authorized Priesthood is world wide. If a leader puts the church at risk, things will happen. Personalities, of the leaders, are not an issue. The ONLY issue is AUTHORITY. The CoJC of LDS is the ONLY Authorized church on earth in-spite of humans, running it. Humans are NOT perfect and can never be until departing the Mortal body.
I am not sure what you are claiming. Because the priesthood is in the LDS church, then the church is God's church and what the church does is good?
The Church is perfect. It is a covenant from God. Men are not perfect. If you want to Nit Pick and tarnish your spirituality, that is your business and, as the bible states, you will reap your rewards. Everything you claim is twisted and perverted. I have very little respect for the 122 leaders. I won't reveal why. However, the Church is perfect in-spite of imperfect humans running it. I don't pound sand. It appears you do. If you are happy with what you are doing, that is all that matters. So, why rip on our Heavenly Fathers only authorized church? It accomplishes nothing. What you focus on is what you will become. I suggest you quite being so Negative and committing battery against the church. Such actions won't change the church, but will change you.
I was vague intentionally. No need to put people testimonies at risk. The church is true. The Church has authority from God. Men are not perfect. Father knows this. I prayed about the issue. I received an answer of which I did not exactly favor. However, it was spot on accurate. Fortify your testimony. Were are in the phase, Satan released and ruling. The number of HATE channels of the Church on youtube is shocking. However, It strengthens my testimony. I describe it this way. Satan doesn't bash his buddies. No other church is bashed, maligned or hated. One sneaky hate channel "Mormon Discussions" is anti but pretends to be pro to seduce people. They make 400K annually bashing the church. Don't look into the hate channel unless you have an Nuclear Bomb proof testimony.
Do you know what a non-sequitur is? What you have typed here is one. What do I mean? You do not know what the definition of Priesthood is. Priesthood is an association of men, who are priests. As a priest, in a group of priests, you are in a priesthood. If you took the time to actually read what Joseph Smith wrote, you would see it was Faith that is the Power of God, not some nonsensical misuse of terms conflating the word priesthood. The wrong definition of priesthood and faith blind the entire church from the truth and make all the ordinances for naught, even the ones that might be valid.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Absolutely Spot on. The Church is Christ. The Priesthood is Christs Authority to act in capacities to officiate over the church and perform Priesthood duties such as: Baptism, bishops, stake presidents, patriarchs, etc... That is why LDS are different. All other churches Popped out of the Magicians hat and falsely claimed authority. LDS claim Restored which is logical and consistent with the Bible unlike all 48,000+ christian denominations who receive their authority from governments of the Earthly world.
ISAIAH CHAPTER 1
2...I have reared sons, brought them up,
but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,
the a$$ its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;
my people are insensible.
(look up Margaret Barker on this phrase. She says these sons were literally men made kings, brought up by God, yet they rebelled against him. "a$$" in Hebrew is a wordplay that means royal priesthood, a very obvious wordplay by Isaiah. She says these rulers no longer have wisdom nor do they understand. Gileadi says that a$$ represents an unclean animal symbolic of the Gentiles)
4 Alas, a nation astray,
a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,
perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel,
they have lapsed into apostasy.
(Gileadi says this deffinatly refers to the LDS covenant people and when you realize that the entire chapter 1 of Isaiah connects section by section, so there is no doubt that the whole thing is condemning the LDS )
5 Why be smitten further
by adding to your waywardness?
The whole head is sick,
the whole heart diseased.
6 From the soles of the feet even to the head
there is nothing sound,
only wounds and bruises and festering sores;
they have not been pressed out or bound up,
nor soothed with ointment.
(the center of the chapter is the highlight / chiasm center:
YOUR HANDS ARE FILLED WITH BLOOD
WASH YOURSELVES CLEAN
(Read the whole chapter as talking about LDS)
Believe Isaiah, believe Joseph Smith, believe the Book of Mormon, Believe the D&C that has not been corrupted.
thank you!
Changed the food system eh? Guess he’s refering to when they changed to bread and water
What? I said undermine the food system.
You will better understand the change to the food system when you go to Costco and shelves are stocked with insects and lab grown meat. We are not there yet, but work is proceeding. Controlling food is another way to control the people.
@@brotherofiam I completely agree with doing things in a sustainable way. However it seems "sustainable" to them means controlling every aspect.
En pointe as always my blessed brother. We are seeing the fulfillment of Isaiah 28. Hosea 9:7-9 . I can dismantle the Brighamite church and all LDS sects with 3 chapters of the Book of Mormon.
Moroni 8: The baptism of little children is an evil abomination-Little children are alive in Christ because of the Atonement-Faith, repentance, meekness and lowliness of heart, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end lead to salvation. About A.D. 401-21.
Jacob 2: Jacob denounces the love of riches, pride, and unchastity-Men may seek riches to help their fellowmen-The Lord commands that no man among the Nephites may have more than one wife-The Lord delights in the chastity of women. About 544-421 B.C.
3 Nephi 11: 39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
We are at the exact same place Joseph was 200 years ago: Which of these churches shall I Join? The answer is exactly the same now as then. None! All organized religion is false thus saith the Lord your God. We are at the cleansing of the church. It happens from the bottom up, grass roots under my leadership calling for votes of common consent for the removal of the Drunkards of Ephraim.
Only one of two things is true: I am a delusional madman or I am the son of Jacob, 21st century holder of that ancient birthright; the hidden king of the Israelites- David Elias de Peri-Christ the prophet. The Davidic servant Esias, the spokesman. Either way I am humbly your servant. #TheSonOfJacob #kingDavidAPrince #iAmEliasTheProphet# #KingOfTheIsraelites
Great comment. I appreciate your concise summary.
Please don’t allow your pride to hinder your desire for truth. I feel for many that just because they have discovered truths that the majority, the world, are ignorant to, they feel they have been put on a pedestal by God far above that calling which they in reality received. I do not want to blindly dismiss the claims from the end of your comment. However, I have seen dozens, if not hundreds, of men and women I feel to be in good faith and intentions, making similar claims all contradicting one another, the scriptures, and often themselves. If you are called by God to know a higher truth then you have every right to exercise that calling, but I plead with you to evaluate yourself as an outsider, to humble yourself as a dirty rag before God, and to make sure above much else that you are not magnifying your calling above that which you were called.
@@jestubbs69 those are my top three scripture references as well, all from the Latter-day Saints' own scriptures, that do reveal very clearly their modern fallacy.
Another word, and this I know completely- the true Servant does not go around campaigning and seeking to convince others of his calling. He simply acts in authority and does God's will, speaking in power and the true Spirit. People will begin recognizing him over time, but he WILL NOT campaign for recognition as you do. He has no need to testify of himself, but only of his master. The Servant is not greater than his Master.
Therefore, I know you are not him. He is finishing his preparation and remains hidden for now anyway. You testify of yourself, therefore your master, the Devil, is pleased with you.
Change course my brother- testify of the true Master in one Jesus of Nazareth, and none other, especially not yourself
RELIGION VERSUS REASON. SCIENCE VERSUS RELIGION.
There are some of your points that make sense however when I got to the part where you said all our Sunday lesson formats are scripted and the Elders Quorum and Bishoprics couldn’t use their own inspiration/revelation that is just plain wrong. For the most part Elders Quorums have one Sunday a month
they can direct the instruction. It is true they can select from conference talks etc., but they have latitude depending on local needs. Bishops have discretion in different situations
as well. That’s when I quit listening because you seem to be disconnected from the whole push for personal revelation and responsibility that President has promoted from the beginning.
So because I may have 1 thing wrong out of 10 then you discounted the other 9 evidence? Does that make sense to you? I literally said that if you didn't like one just skip to the next. The pattern is more important than the specifics.
You also agreed with me though so I am not sure why you discounted it. I also never said it was impossible to deviate so I am frankly not sure as to the problem.
I don’t always agree with Patrick, but I agree with his comment above. If there is anything I’ve learned in life, it’s that only God gets everything right. But it is certainly worth hearing people out, and then we can formulate our own thoughts and conclusions.
I am glad that of all Nelson’s teachings, personal revelation and responsibility has stood out to you. I think that is the best advice the man has given the church.
It really depends on how strictly any member or bishopric follows the handbook. I've seen meetings follow the spirit and some follow in a rigid form void of the spirt.
@@lisatreelove9278 I agree. HEAR HIM. That's what he taught. It's almost as if he was warning us against himself.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism This is the definition of scripture mingled with the philosophies of men. You aren't appointed to be teaching this to people as if its something to apply into their testimonies. It is a huge deal that you are getting things wrong in your videos if it means that people are misguided by them. if you don't like it then skip to the next? How about, tell people to read the Book of Mormon and not, don't go to your church meetings because they don't teach them very good? You are promoting view points that can cause people to lose the entirety of their faith in Christ. You should be ashamed of yourself
Lets see. Do I want to follow the Prophet and the Apostles or do I want to listen to and believe a blogger who says we shouldn't do what the Prophets tell us? It is like what is happening with a lot of scholars in the church who say that we should believe them and that Joseph didn't really know. Sorry I will follow the Prophet who I believe knows a lot more and is much more inspired than some blogger who thinks he knows more than the brethren.
Your highly emotional reaction is actually the problem in this case. You approached this with no logic only emotion.
Did not every generation that went into apostasy, "go to church" and "follow the prophet". How are we any different than any other generation?
I will test the prophet, not just follow......
Jesus specifically said to test anyone who claims to be a prophet. It's not a given. Anyone can give themselves a title.
Please study the scriptures. They show the patterns. They contain the warnings.
I would also caution some of those in the Mormon stories podcasts are scoffing at prophecies regarding these "Revelations" times we find ourselves in. Particularly Bill Reel or Rill or however his last name is spelled.
Many leave Mormonism and then become atheist or whatever. However I honestly think Mormonism left me. I still believe in almost all of it. I just see things differently now. There is a lot of truth in Mormonism including the Book of Mormon.
People on Mormon Stories can attack this or that for attention. However, it takes significantly more work to search through things and discover that truth.
1978
These are the words and arguments of an apostate. Most of the logic used here is problematic to what any church or large organization would have in a growing, progressive world such as ours. I think it would be near impossible for any leader to meet the expectations of anyone who thinks in these channels. Yes, we all struggle against unseen powers, dominions, kingdoms, principalities, etc. that makes rules for our lives. People in this world are all imperfect, yet the Lord allows and expects each of us to judge truth for ourselves and to make the best choices. Personally, I'm glad we don't all think alike and that our Lord is willing to meet each of us where we are and help us from time to time as we continue to learn ways of walking in His paths through the darkness of this life.
I am an apostate because I see issues in the current LDS church. This is the core problem I think. To be faithful is to see no problems and "stay in the boat". Do you honestly think Christ would accept people that like in his kingdom? I may be wrong about a few things, however I am willing to stake it all on my beliefs and my faith and trust in God. What are you willing to sacrifice for God?
So a different view is considered apostate? How ridiculous
Classic example of what one says when they are brainwashed. Stop with the group think.
Sure but no different from any sect .
important not to focus on the particulars, but the whole picture? this whole video is debating things like why can't we just watch a video in sacrament meeting. This is miles beyond the mark of strengthening personal testimony. The church is in apostasy because the podium is two steps higher than the congregation?? what does that have to do with the the gospel of Jesus Christ? People leave the church because they are unwilling to develop their personal testimonies. The excuse is always "something made me leave". Yeah its not because you just aren't willing to follow the principles of the gospel. Don't kid yourselves. Christ is your only landline in this life and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints if His organized church. You are giving up on yourselves not the other way around.
I think you may be commenting on a different video from the one you watched. Your comments don't make any sense in relation to what I said.
I like though how you are referencing ancillary points I made, but failed to reference a single main point. Do you want to pick a main topic and we can discuss it more?
@@uncorrelatedmormonism I literally quoted things you said in your video. you made a whole point about the leaders being literally higher that the congregation. how is that a sign to be alarmed that the church is in apostasy?? Maybe its so that we can see the speaker in sacrament meeting. And pick a main topic??This is way off the path my man. Advising people to leave the church is wrong. Read the Book of Mormon more. Your creating stumbling blocks for yourself. And for other people now too!
@@jarrinpruett4501 Again you are focusing on ancillary points and ignore the main one. I believe they call this a straw man argument. 😃
In section #4, I mention how we:
1. Spiritually elevate our leaders
2. Talk about their thoughts and opinions
3. Physically elevate them
4. Need their approval before doing things
5. Need their approval to go to the temple
6. Need their approval to repent
Why are you focusing on #3? Is it because you know the rest of the points are true already?
What I actually said: "This is also manifest in seemingly small ways including how the Bishop and his councilors sit on the stand during a meeting. In this case, they are literally physically separated and elevated from the congregation for no reason at all."
I don't mind logically engaging, however we really should be honest with each other.
@@uncorrelatedmormonism Brother, your entire channel are on ancillary points of the church. Everything you've brought up is a straw man argument.
The gospel is; Faith in Jesus Christ, Baptism, Repentance, Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and Endure to the end. Oh but what should a family do if they are dying and can't afford a single cent of tithing? yeah maybe they just shouldn't believe in God anymore.
Really bad audio.
Can you be more specific?
@@uncorrelatedmormonismI heard it loud and clear.
@@uncorrelatedmormonismI think it would help to talk louder......
@@TheBackyardProfessor Thank you for the feedback.
I keep watching those videos against the church just to find out over and over again how shallow and simplistic the arguments are.
Thank you. Do you care to elaborate?
Please educate me
56:11-12 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds. They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage. Come, [they say,] let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!
Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.
Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).
God's got nothing good to say about your leaders!
I love seeing anyone (their numbers are few) who use their knowledge and intelligence to test, explore, and validate life. Unfortunately, these people are vastly outnumbered by the masses of people who are well indoctrinated.
@@ernestcook4285 One interesting thing is that the “very few people” you mentioned firmly believe that the only people that can be possibly indoctrinated are the others. It’s like, no not me, I am indoctrination proofed and thus I can seat and tell who is and who is indoctrinated.
Galatians
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
May our Father in Heaven, give us eyes to see & ears to hear, so we may discern, from right & wrong! Being a member, I prayed multiple times, asking our Father, to show me tbe truth about the Church. I was led to many scriptures & looked at many things, the church does.
In the temple, the creation movie, Lucifer tells Adam, that his apron is his Priesthood, then they stop the movie, & tell the members, to put on their aprons, the priesthood of Lucifer! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? So glad, that never went through the temple! I wouldve run out so fast!
Another thing, they have a golden Moroni idol on the temple! Secret ceremony, what does the bible say about that?! Jesus had the apostles drink the wine & eat tbe bread, in no way did he say for us to do it! So many things to add, but I will stop here, as everyone should pray & ask for proof, the church deceives it's members! Our Father will help you with discernment!
May our Father bless us all & keep us safe from harm! Lots of Love to our Father & to All My Brothers and Sisters❣ May you all find the Truth! Get out of the False Re-Legions!
🙏🥰🙏🏾
Church doesn't need anyone to stand up for her, she stands alone under the Lord Jesus Christ
The LDS church? Are you saying the LDS church can't do any wrong?
Interesting video. The LDS church was an apostasy since the beginning. The Book of Mormon seems logical and sounds like ‘Another Testimony of Jesus Christ’, but Joseph Smith would later describe a Jesus radically different from the Bible Jesus which seems more like a ‘testimony of another Jesus Christ’.
Apostle Paul warns of teaching another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
As evidenced by how mormons desecrate Jesus after every Sunday service when the left over 'blessed and sanctified' bread and water is thrown out like common trash, but carefully and respectfully remove the non-biblical satanic freemasonic symbols from old worn out underwear/garments before disposal.
You do a great job quoting scripture, but don't seem to know the 'true' meaning.
The entire "Mormon" movement is heresy.
There is ONE God in Thrrr persons.
The leader has ALL of the keys! What is God wanted that change even if it was not in the handbook? Stop relyung in your iwn wisdom because you dont have any, apostate!!!
Are you suggesting that we do whatever the leader says?
@@uncorrelatedmormonismhe's obviously terrified to think for himself. Perhaps someday Jesus will let him know it's OK to use his brain.
@@TheBackyardProfessor Thanks. I find it a badge of honor to be called an apostate by the LDS church.
This comment cracks me up. Try thinking, try investigating. You must be an agent unto yourself, listen to Carl Sagen “If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth.”