2 Quick tips when replacing screws in MDF. 1) Fill the hole in the MDF with a bit of wood glue. Reinstall the screw while the glue is still wet. When dry, the glue will bond with the mdf but not the screw, creating a very sturdy plastic "nut" that is inseperable from the baffle. 2) Turn the screws backwards first. I always turn the screws backwards until they drop into the original threads, reducing the chance of pulling through the MDF.
Thanks, Douglas! Those are some excellent tips! As for tip number 1, the glue really doesn't bond to the screw? Honestly, that seems too good to be true! I might have to try this tip soon.
@@generationbehindhifi White Wood Glue (I use Carpenter's Glue, made by Lepage) does not bond well to metal, especially not smooth metal. What happens is that it forms a very tight fit with the threads, so the next time you remove the screw it's hard to get moving... after that it's like a plastic nut imbedded in the MDF. If you need to test this ... just drill a hole in some scrap MDF, put in a screw, remove it, put the glue in the hole and then thread the screw back in per #2... let it dry for a couple of days and you'll see for yourself.
Cabinet making 101: never use a water-based wood glue with MDF. It causes the MDF to swell. Although it may seem logical set the swelling would make the screw hole narrower and therefore make for a tighter fit, it also weakens the fibers. I would definitely do a side by side test of screw holding strength before putting $500 speakers at risk.
Crossover upgrade video on these speakers sounds like a great idea. Even if you did all upgraded parts higher quality equal value to the original parts. I think you would definitely gain some sound quality 👍🏻
Parts have been ordered! I purchased 2x Mundorf EVO oil caps and 2x air core inductors. I also purchased some new damping material to line the inside of the cabinets with. Let's see what happens. :)
I have this speakers more than a year. Bought them used for my first hifi system and turntable for about 400$. I could say that I'm fully satisfied with them as my first speakers. Now looking for upgrade)
A crossover upgrade video would be really great to take these speakers to the next level. I hope you do get to design a new crossover and share with us. You have a new subscriber. :)
I owned the Kef q350 for about 1 year, they are a good all-rounder, sold them on and bought the Wharfdale Denton 85, the Wharfdale are a step up from the q350 but also more expensive!
These are interesting videos. It is amazing what you have to pay for a monitor to get good cabinet design, film and foil caps and heavy gauge air core inductors. One small point. What the trusty Fluke meter is measuring is the DC resistance of the voice coils, not the impedance. The impedance varies widely with frequency, and has a large inductive component which translates (in part) into the amount of power that actually contributes to the sound output. The DC resistance is required for damping the driver to flatten the frequency response.
Thanks, Bob! Yes, I agree. Prices for monitors are getting a bit out of hand. B&W now wants over $1k for their 600 series bookshelf with a 6.5" driver in it. I will try and get the lingo right next time. I was always under the assumption that when I said the impedance of a speaker is X, it was assumed it was at 0Hz. No question that impedance varies with frequency! I supplied the impedance curve of these speakers in this video. Thanks for the comment!
Please consider purchasing your set of Q350s from the below affiliate links if you would like to support the channel. Your support is much appreciated and allows me create more great content! KEF Q350: amzn.to/46vcIfO KEF Q150: amzn.to/46B4xif Dayton Audio DATs V3: amzn.to/3ZlG8L0 Sonic Barrier 3 layer dampening material: amzn.to/46wSRwT Amazon Basics butyl rubber sound dampening material: amzn.to/3RJWzPr
I was surprised by the stamped steel frame for the driver and also how minimalistic the crossover is. The lack of damping material is also a concern because some resonances can easily appear in a rectangular box. Putting an air core inductor will certainly help transparency and control in the bass region. Great video! Very enjoyable!
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words! Yeah, I was surprised by the stamped steel basket too, because the previous generation Q series used a cast basket. IMO I think KEF was cutting costs to reduce manufacturing costs. Shame! Hopefully they get back on the right path with the next Q series generation.
Maybe. I would be cautious with messing with the manufacturers design. it may be very possible that they use that amount of damping material for a reason. I expect the crossover is carefully tuned for that particular speaker. I guess I just feel fairly confident that the KEF engineers know what they are doing.
@@Dave_Outside Hi Dave! That's not what I do here. I'm always tinkering. 🙂 The KEF design was built to a price point, hence the crossover and cabinet damping inside. If you look at the impedance sweep, then you will see that this design will benefit greatly from some additional damping inside the cabinet (standing waves and resonances) and I also think some higher quality components on the crossover will benefit the sound a bit too.
Great video!!! I was considering buying these used and doing some easy-ish DIY mods on them. The drivers are well-designed and are capable of impressive SQ - but the cabinets and crossovers are built to save money and are the weak, crappy parts of the speaker, IMO. If I were to go forward and get a used set, these are the cheap and simple mods I'd try first: 1) Self-adhesive, butyl sound damping sheets on all interior surfaces of the driver - double thick "strips" on the center of all panels as targeted "spot damping" for a bit extra vibration damping; 2) Extra 3/8" to 1/2" wood dowels fitted inside the cabinet above and below the single existing brace. To make the cabinet even stiffer and much less resonant; 3) Some Parts Express "Sonic Barrier" damping sheets - either the 1/2" or 1" thicknesses. They would finish out eliminating the cabinet vibrations and resonances. The cabinet would finally be dead enough not to "play" along with the drivers; 4) A bit of extra polyfill weighed bit by bit and added to each speaker to season to taste. While listening to the results and being careful to not "overdamp" it and to not create a dynamically "dead" SQ; I'd do this to most of my low cost "value" speakers (ie: PSB Imagine XBs and Energy RC-10s) with really good results, IMO.These cheap DIY mods could make this speaker ascend in SQ by quite a bit, IMO. Of course, the crossover really needs some work also, such as: Designing it to have at least either 2nd or 3rd order slopes (ie: either 12 or 18dB per octave vs the shallow, OG ~6dB per octave slopes). That would allow both the midbass and tweeter to not have to work so hard out of their bandwidths - resulting in the ability to play louder and smoother with much less distortion or stress. That's what I'd do.....
Thanks! I really appreciate that! I agree with everything you said. You definitely don't want to miss my KEF Q350 review video that will be coming out on 12/1/23. In that video I will announce my KEF Q350 upgrade video series with the hopes of taking these speakers to the next level with reasonable upgrades just like some of the ones you described above. I even picked up some Mundorf Evo capacitors and new air core inductors for the crossover.
Oh man, thank you so much - I've recently purchased a pair of Q500 and after 10 or so days I've noticed that there is something buzzing/resonating in one of the speakers during a few of bass-only notes in one of the songs. I figured chances of this being something being badly seated (like a screw) were high (as opposed to problem with the cone itself) but not knowing a thing about how speakers are made I didn't know how to get to the screws - it did not occur to me you can 'unwrap' the rubber 'z-flex surround' bit. So i've removed the plastic ring following what you do at around 1:00 mark, undid and screwed all the screws back it, cleaned everything and the issue was gone, and stayed gone with the plastic ring put firmy back in. Thanks again!
Emotiva speakers use threaded metal inserts in their speakers. And yes, an air core inductor on the woofer would be a big improvement, and a 0.1uF bypass cap on the stock cap; or replace the cap with a better one. That brand film cap is very low cost. Some triple layer damping foam (like the 3/4" sheets from Parts Express) would go a long way to reducing cabinet resonances.
Thanks, Neil! I will have to check out Emotiva's speakers one of these days. I had a set of their XPA-1 amplifiers back in the day and was very happy with them. I appreciate the suggestions! Happy listening!
I had these for a while they're really good for the money there was excessive energy around 200 Hertz sounded to me maybe that insulation would have fixed it.
@@gregmatula9749 Are you referring to the 3-layer foam? That might do it - or a few ribs / struts to stiffen the top/bottom/sides/back, which are not nearly as thick as the front.
@@generationbehindhifi I realized that it is possible that the crossover in the Q350 *could* be a series design, in which case it would be 2nd order filters on both drivers. Can you take a look at the circuit? If the positive binding post is connected to the inductor coil and the resistor, which then is connected to the tweeter, then it is a series XO. The negative tweeter lug would be connected to the positive of the woofer AND to the other side of the coil AND to the cap. The negative connection of the woofer would be connected to the other side of the cap and to the negative binding post.
The biggest improvement will be going to air core inductor of same value. Upgrading from that resistor and metal poly cap will have nil effect, unless for some reason that cap is high ESR.
New subscriber here. Just picked up the KEF Q350s for my first set of hi-fi speakers. If you replace the sound-deadening materials, I would love to know if there is a measurable difference in performance. If yes, your video will inspire me to do the same. Thanks for all of your hard work making these videos!
We all have different tastes, but I am surprised by your comment because I felt the Q350's tweeter is rather neutral and laid back, especially when compared to the Focal Aria 906. My KEF Q350 review will be out in the first week of December.
@@robde-e-e Thanks, Rob! I missed that he was referring to the "Q950" and not the Q350, but they still share the same tweeter assembly. The fact is some people hear different things and that's what makes the hobby so interesting. I love my Q350's and I hope J-rod can find a set of speakers that he will enjoy.
I mean, every speaker has some downside to it. I heard a bunch of them, even over 2000 dollar price range, but I have yet to hear a speaker that sounds perfect with absolute no tone controls.
Wonder if these speakers match my Aiyima D03, because.. now i have a pair of Triangle Borea 3(90db sensitivity); the Q350 are 88db sensitive so that's why. Triangles sounds great on the Aiyima even at low volumes.. love these speakers. But yeahh..a pair of KEF Q350 nice to have "extra" .. Had a pair of Dali Oberon(also 88db)before and there was no problem for the Aiyima, only they gave to much low end.. Have small room(25m2), so that's why.
Is interesting, how Q150 and 350 cost roughly the same in central europe, ie around 400-430 usd range. While in western markets, Q150 comes to 300 and Q350 to 500.
The setting on your DATS for inductance is set for 10Khz, for a woofer the 1Khz setting would be much more telling as it is much closer to the range it is covering. Using the 1K setting will show a higher value.
Hello Emmet, I'm a bit confused by this statement because DATs does a sweep from 5Hz all the way to 20KHz to determine the T/S parameters. How do I change it to 1KHz?
The kef350 have a stamped basket ? I have two pair of the kef 300 and the spider basket is diecast and have for sure a better crossover and more material inside. Also have a front port makes them better to place on a wall and can be bi-amp or bi-wire for who is in that kind of stuff.
Hi ! i'm from switzerland and i can confirm Swiss plugs and European plugs can fit in a set of banana binding post, some of them even have the perfect spacing between the two binding post hahah
Oh ! and thank you for the video, it was great ;) i'm really looking forward to your full review. I got a pair of original LS50 for 515€ about a year ago and i really love them
For sure. I think KEF has these on sale for $500 a pair more than they do at their regular $799 MSRP. At $500, I think they offer great value for money!
@@generationbehindhifi I look very much forward to that. I enjoyed your first two videos, and they were very helpful in making a purchase decision. Did you see the blog from Hifi Alex? It's in German, but google translate will help. He has a diagram for a better crossover. Not sure I can link on youtube, but you can google for "pimp a Kef Q350". Thanks again.
Needs to be more vids like this. The manufacturers are asthetically making it look great on the outside with great quality woofers and tweeters but inside is a lightweight lame arsed crossover😢
IEEE did a white paper on ferromagnetic parts in audio connectors and its a good read. Basically the study proved that ferromagnetic parts introduce passive intermodulation, aka 3rd-order harmonics distortion to the signal! Simply put, there's a reason why high end speakers use non ferromagnetic parts in the signal path. Paper can be read here if you are a IEEE member: ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielaam/22/8681220/8632973-aam.pdf www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ferromagnetic-materials-in-audio-connectors.41867/
I had the q350 for a month before returning them and getting q150s and a cheap Fosi ZA3 amp, which is the best sub-$500 system I've ever heard. They're both amazing speakers but the difference between the two is negligible when paired with a sub. q350s just aren't worth the $450 premium at the normal price, imo. Q150s at $300-$350 are a bargain.
I highly advise against any kef speakers including the q350! I purchased the q350 3 years ago with high hopes and they are aesthetically pleasing but the sound was disappointing for $800 speakers. I could have lived with that, but after owning them less than a month the aluminum driver tore 2 inches along the edge of the surround. They were under warranty but a huge hassle sending them all the way back to Kef in New Jersey and being without them for 3 months. I had to buy different speakers to hold me over until the kef was returned. I've been bitter about that experience ever since and then a week ago lo and behold the other driver is now torn in the same place same size! If you go online you will see tons of kef speakers totally torn and gacked out in all sorts of ways! I wish I would have known 3 years ago before I ever bought Kef. Those speakers should have lasted me a lifetime and now I'm just screwed out of $800.00 with these POS speakers. I thought I was getting something beautiful and unique and high-end but I was so wrong!
There is a reason that KEF didn't spend another 7 cents to fill the enclosure with poly. I'd guess it has to do with port flow. You won't hear a difference between iron and copper. The only thing that matters are the specs, not the metal used. If you think you can hear a difference it's just because you think you hear a difference. You don't.
Perhaps, but speakers are the sum of their parts are they not? Every little detail matters to maximize sound quality. To use ferromagnetic parts vs steel is pennies more, especially at the volume these manufactures are buying them at. My question to you is if it didn't matter, then why do all the high end manufactures use non-ferromagnetic parts in their designs? This includes Bowers & Wilkins, KEF, and Sonus Faber. I'll tell you why, because they are trying to squeeze every small performance gain they can to distance themselves from the rest. As an audiophile, everyone should be thinking this way. IEEE did a white paper on ferromagnetic parts in audio connectors and its a good read. Basically the study proved that ferromagnetic parts introduce passive intermodulation, aka 3rd-order harmonics distortion to the signal! Simply put, there's a reason why high end speakers use non ferromagnetic parts in the signal path. Paper can be read here: ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielaam/22/8681220/8632973-aam.pdf
@@generationbehindhifi No doubt, a speaker is made of parts, but not all of them matter. The most likely reason for the use of nonferrous is because people look at the crossovers and they have perceived value. They have absolutely nothing to do with sound as long as the specs are the same, For instance, some speaker manufacturers brag about their internal wire gauge or speaker terminals. The IEEE paper is referring to radio frequencies. No effect at 30kHz, effect at 30GHz. You will hear absolutely no difference in speakers because those aren't audio frequencies.
Crossover components don't make a difference? I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. I can definitely hear a difference between an electrolytic cap and a MKP cap in my designs! I'm going to disagree with your statement on the use of ferrous materials being used in the signal path. I would recommend that you purchase the book "Douglas Self's Audio Power Amplifier Design" (6th ed., 2013), on pages 426 and 427 he talks about this very thing and that third order harmonics being introduced are detectable. This guy is obviously smarter than me and so is the R&D departments at KEF, Bowers & Wilkins, and Sonus Faber. All of these speaker manufacturers do NOT use ferromagnetic parts in their higher end speaker designs. Why is that? IMO is it really worth taking a chance when the difference between ferromagnetic parts and nonferrous parts have a difference of maybe $1.00? People are willing to spend hundreds if not thousands on speaker cable (which I don't condone), but yet will leave ferrous materials in the signal path? You're free to have your opinion on the subject, but from what I have read and studied it is measurable.
@@generationbehindhifi If you're worried about saturation get a bigger inductor. They're are a lot of designers that say a lot of things. I'd guess that an air core sounds more coppery and iron sounds more brittle and dense. The difference is in the values, not the metal.
That sucks! Sorry to hear! KEF runs sales on their Q line of speakers quite regularly. I think KEF will have another sale right after Thanksgiving and you should be able to pick up a pair for a lot less than $650. That is if you can wait. :)
@@generationbehindhifi awesome! Yes, I can wait. Man those lsxii are also calling me. I wish they had a q150 wireless. In other words, little cheaper than the ls50's
@@XtianApi I hear ya! Decisions like this can be tough. Personally, I have owned both the Q150 and Q350 speakers, and while the Q150 was very impressive for it's size, it just didn't have the bass output that I was looking for. Think of the Q350 as everything that the Q150 is, but just a lot more sound stage, imaging, and most of all bass!
@@generationbehindhifi really! I've seen so little on the 350, especially in regards to the 150. I may wait for a 500 dollar 350 sale. Need a decent amp to pair it with, because my smsl stuff is crap
@@generationbehindhifi Would you say the highs of the Q350 are a bit muffled? I went to go listen to them at Best Buy and the soundstage was huge but just couldn't get over that they sounded muffled. especially compared to the rest of the bookshelf speakers in the same showroom. Do the Q150's have brighter highs compared to the Q350's?
Let me guess cheap film caps if that 5 GBP worth of parts per speaker.. I will make concluding comments in an edit after vid. Yes I was righ.. Why do u assume speakers need to b stuffed with wadding... It can deaden the sound too much
Im European, and that story about plug in an electrical cable to the speaker terminal is absurd. If i grab, lets say, a standar electrical cable that plugs into the wall, and intead plug it to back of the speaker, what can go wrong? nothing, theres no current coming out of the speaker terminal.. i hould just be making something stupid with no bad consequences except making myself look dumb as a door. lol
What in gods name is wrong with the audiophile society. You bring back 1980 coaxial design and nothing that plays below 50 hz and everybody has an orgasm. God save the true two channel society
I think you're taking this review completely out of context. Settle down, bud! We get it, you don't like KEF, which is fine. The world would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things. Happy listening!
IKR? We need some good old Cerwin Vegas. Nothing sounds better than that big red stripe on the woofer. SL-15 is the best for some Bon Jovi and Quiet Riot 🥳🥴😵💫
Based on construction, this should be about a $550 set of speakers. I mean really, at $800 for the pair they use a STAMPED STEEL frame basket? Then there is that crossover. I mean, really, with such few parts, couldn't they opted for an air core coil? More and more I been seeing that KEF is heading down the road of Focal and they are becoming a "Troll" manufacturer that overprices their products. Sorry, Pass. I think for concentric driver speakers, Tannoys are built better than this. One thing I do give to KEF is that I was surprised that they are using a VERY thick front baffle and also their input terminals are mostly brass. It is shocking when compared to that Focal speaker for $2200, but then again, I am NOT surprised.
The Q350s are $500 speakers. KEF has them on sale for this price quite a bit throughout the year. At $500, they are one of my favorite speakers in this price range.
@@generationbehindhifi That is better pricing for them, but I have it been hearing it to often from known audiophiles and they are not keen on the concentric drivers. By itself the KEFs sound fine, but when compared to other speakers, and often cheaper ones, they come off as just OK. Lately, I have been leaning towards Wharfedale as that seems to be a nicely built speaker, but I hear the high end is laid back on those and I am more of a Klipsch person that prefers a more lively top end. The scary thing is that I bought the Sony SSCS5's based on a reviewer here on You Tube, and for a $123 pair of speakers, the midrange is better on those than the $350 set of Klipsch RP-600m's I have. As for KEF, I am curious to how the Q150 sounds. There are at least two reviewers I came across that prefer this speaker over the LS50's! ...And it is far cheaper too!
@@jukingeo I love the KEF Uni-Q drivers. I think they sound phenomenal for the money. Sound quality is a personal preference and a very subjective topic. Some people like them and some people don't, which is fine. I wasn't a fan of the Q150 and I think its laughable that some people actually think they sound "better" than the LS50, but who am I to argue with them if they truly believe that. I used to own the Q150 and found they lacked bass so I returned them for the Q350. IMO the Q350 is a much better speaker. I talk about all this in my Q150 and Q350 review videos. If I were you, order both and decide for yourself. :)
@@generationbehindhifi I guess to each their own, but initially, I have heard the rants and raves about how good the LS-50 is, but lately I have been hearing the other side of the equation. It seems as if the Q-150 and A-350 are priced reasonably enough to try out. But if you ask me, the asking price of the LS-50 is a big NO. I have a problem in general when it comes to spending more than $650 for bookshelf speakers. I just feel for the average size (woofers below 8" in diameter), and overall construction, there is only so much you can put into a small speaker. It gets to a point where it downright overcharging. I mean would you go to a hardware store and spend $1000 on a hammer? No, I don't think so. BTW, I made a mistake. The guy that likes the Q150 better compared them to the LS-50 and not the Q350. He still has the Q150 and sold the LS-50s.
@@jukingeo I think you might be over simplifying it with the hammer analogy but I see your point. No doubt in this hobby you get to the point of diminishing returns as you move up in price, but in most cases (depends on brand) there are tremendous differences in quality of parts, cabinet construction, and drivers when comparing a pair of $650 bookshelf speakers to a $2000+ pair. Is the more expensive speaker worth it? Well, that depends on the person. To me it is, but I also have 15k tower speakers in my theater room and I really enjoy this hobby. As for the guy who thinks his Q150's are better than LS50's, great! But I strongly disagree with his statement, but I'm sure my wife wished I had ears like him. LOL!
Agreed. But the Q350 is still one of my favorite bookshelf speakers when on sale for $499.99 a pair. Most of the competition is using 5.25" drivers whereas KEF is using a 6.5", which puts them at an advantage IMO.
LOL! They told me I needed to have thick skin to create content on youtube when people like this comment. Simply put, I'm not a charlatan youtuber like some of the others and I will NOT pretend to know about a subject when I know nothing about it. If that's what you want, then this channel isn't for you.
Hello, I couldn't disagree more with this statement. What about the standing waves within the enclosure if damping material is not necessary on ported boxes? I don't know where you heard that, but I would recommend reading up on the subject more because damping material is absolutely necessary for speaker enclosures, ported or not.
@@generationbehindhifi I’m not gonna argue with you. If you think that really matters you’ve never built your own box and listened to it you’re a sheep who listens to other people online
I cannot recommend these speakers. very cheap first-order crossover (6dB/octave). Yes, it would still be fine for a bass speaker, but for a tweeter, a crossover of the second order is always used, but never (6dB/octave). you can hear harshness due to poor filtering and overall poorly designed speakers. Considering the price, there are much better speakers such as wharfedale, Canton, jamo, q acoustics..
2 Quick tips when replacing screws in MDF.
1) Fill the hole in the MDF with a bit of wood glue.
Reinstall the screw while the glue is still wet. When dry, the glue will bond with the mdf but not the screw, creating a very sturdy plastic "nut" that is inseperable from the baffle.
2) Turn the screws backwards first.
I always turn the screws backwards until they drop into the original threads, reducing the chance of pulling through the MDF.
Thanks, Douglas! Those are some excellent tips! As for tip number 1, the glue really doesn't bond to the screw? Honestly, that seems too good to be true! I might have to try this tip soon.
@@generationbehindhifi
White Wood Glue (I use Carpenter's Glue, made by Lepage) does not bond well to metal, especially not smooth metal. What happens is that it forms a very tight fit with the threads, so the next time you remove the screw it's hard to get moving... after that it's like a plastic nut imbedded in the MDF.
If you need to test this ... just drill a hole in some scrap MDF, put in a screw, remove it, put the glue in the hole and then thread the screw back in per #2... let it dry for a couple of days and you'll see for yourself.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Thanks! I will definitely be giving this a try!
@@generationbehindhifi
You're welcome.
Cabinet making 101: never use a water-based wood glue with MDF. It causes the MDF to swell. Although it may seem logical set the swelling would make the screw hole narrower and therefore make for a tighter fit, it also weakens the fibers. I would definitely do a side by side test of screw holding strength before putting $500 speakers at risk.
Crossover upgrade video on these speakers sounds like a great idea. Even if you did all upgraded parts higher quality equal value to the original parts. I think you would definitely gain some sound quality 👍🏻
Parts have been ordered! I purchased 2x Mundorf EVO oil caps and 2x air core inductors. I also purchased some new damping material to line the inside of the cabinets with. Let's see what happens. :)
I have this speakers more than a year. Bought them used for my first hifi system and turntable for about 400$. I could say that I'm fully satisfied with them as my first speakers. Now looking for upgrade)
A crossover upgrade video would be really great to take these speakers to the next level. I hope you do get to design a new crossover and share with us. You have a new subscriber. :)
I owned the Kef q350 for about 1 year, they are a good all-rounder, sold them on and bought the Wharfdale Denton 85, the Wharfdale are a step up from the q350 but also more expensive!
These are interesting videos. It is amazing what you have to pay for a monitor to get good cabinet design, film and foil caps and heavy gauge air core inductors. One small point. What the trusty Fluke meter is measuring is the DC resistance of the voice coils, not the impedance. The impedance varies widely with frequency, and has a large inductive component which translates (in part) into the amount of power that actually contributes to the sound output. The DC resistance is required for damping the driver to flatten the frequency response.
Thanks, Bob! Yes, I agree. Prices for monitors are getting a bit out of hand. B&W now wants over $1k for their 600 series bookshelf with a 6.5" driver in it.
I will try and get the lingo right next time. I was always under the assumption that when I said the impedance of a speaker is X, it was assumed it was at 0Hz. No question that impedance varies with frequency! I supplied the impedance curve of these speakers in this video. Thanks for the comment!
Please consider purchasing your set of Q350s from the below affiliate links if you would like to support the channel. Your support is much appreciated and allows me create more great content!
KEF Q350: amzn.to/46vcIfO
KEF Q150: amzn.to/46B4xif
Dayton Audio DATs V3: amzn.to/3ZlG8L0
Sonic Barrier 3 layer dampening material: amzn.to/46wSRwT
Amazon Basics butyl rubber sound dampening material: amzn.to/3RJWzPr
I was surprised by the stamped steel frame for the driver and also how minimalistic the crossover is. The lack of damping material is also a concern because some resonances can easily appear in a rectangular box. Putting an air core inductor will certainly help transparency and control in the bass region. Great video! Very enjoyable!
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words! Yeah, I was surprised by the stamped steel basket too, because the previous generation Q series used a cast basket. IMO I think KEF was cutting costs to reduce manufacturing costs. Shame! Hopefully they get back on the right path with the next Q series generation.
Maybe. I would be cautious with messing with the manufacturers design. it may be very possible that they use that amount of damping material for a reason. I expect the crossover is carefully tuned for that particular speaker. I guess I just feel fairly confident that the KEF engineers know what they are doing.
@@Dave_Outside Hi Dave! That's not what I do here. I'm always tinkering. 🙂 The KEF design was built to a price point, hence the crossover and cabinet damping inside. If you look at the impedance sweep, then you will see that this design will benefit greatly from some additional damping inside the cabinet (standing waves and resonances) and I also think some higher quality components on the crossover will benefit the sound a bit too.
Great video!!! I was considering buying these used and doing some easy-ish DIY mods on them. The drivers are well-designed and are capable of impressive SQ - but the cabinets and crossovers are built to save money and are the weak, crappy parts of the speaker, IMO. If I were to go forward and get a used set, these are the cheap and simple mods I'd try first:
1) Self-adhesive, butyl sound damping sheets on all interior surfaces of the driver - double thick "strips" on the center of all panels as targeted "spot damping" for a bit extra vibration damping;
2) Extra 3/8" to 1/2" wood dowels fitted inside the cabinet above and below the single existing brace. To make the cabinet even stiffer and much less resonant;
3) Some Parts Express "Sonic Barrier" damping sheets - either the 1/2" or 1" thicknesses. They would finish out eliminating the cabinet vibrations and resonances. The cabinet would finally be dead enough not to "play" along with the drivers;
4) A bit of extra polyfill weighed bit by bit and added to each speaker to season to taste. While listening to the results and being careful to not "overdamp" it and to not create a dynamically "dead" SQ;
I'd do this to most of my low cost "value" speakers (ie: PSB Imagine XBs and Energy RC-10s) with really good results, IMO.These cheap DIY mods could make this speaker ascend in SQ by quite a bit, IMO.
Of course, the crossover really needs some work also, such as: Designing it to have at least either 2nd or 3rd order slopes (ie: either 12 or 18dB per octave vs the shallow, OG ~6dB per octave slopes). That would allow both the midbass and tweeter to not have to work so hard out of their bandwidths - resulting in the ability to play louder and smoother with much less distortion or stress. That's what I'd do.....
Thanks! I really appreciate that! I agree with everything you said. You definitely don't want to miss my KEF Q350 review video that will be coming out on 12/1/23. In that video I will announce my KEF Q350 upgrade video series with the hopes of taking these speakers to the next level with reasonable upgrades just like some of the ones you described above. I even picked up some Mundorf Evo capacitors and new air core inductors for the crossover.
Thank ya' man, been hoping someone would show us the innards of all these critters. Is nice to see what we are buying! 🙂
No problem! :)
Oh man, thank you so much - I've recently purchased a pair of Q500 and after 10 or so days I've noticed that there is something buzzing/resonating in one of the speakers during a few of bass-only notes in one of the songs. I figured chances of this being something being badly seated (like a screw) were high (as opposed to problem with the cone itself) but not knowing a thing about how speakers are made I didn't know how to get to the screws - it did not occur to me you can 'unwrap' the rubber 'z-flex surround' bit.
So i've removed the plastic ring following what you do at around 1:00 mark, undid and screwed all the screws back it, cleaned everything and the issue was gone, and stayed gone with the plastic ring put firmy back in. Thanks again!
Happy to help! :)
Emotiva speakers use threaded metal inserts in their speakers. And yes, an air core inductor on the woofer would be a big improvement, and a 0.1uF bypass cap on the stock cap; or replace the cap with a better one. That brand film cap is very low cost. Some triple layer damping foam (like the 3/4" sheets from Parts Express) would go a long way to reducing cabinet resonances.
Thanks, Neil! I will have to check out Emotiva's speakers one of these days. I had a set of their XPA-1 amplifiers back in the day and was very happy with them. I appreciate the suggestions! Happy listening!
I had these for a while they're really good for the money there was excessive energy around 200 Hertz sounded to me maybe that insulation would have fixed it.
@@gregmatula9749 Are you referring to the 3-layer foam? That might do it - or a few ribs / struts to stiffen the top/bottom/sides/back, which are not nearly as thick as the front.
@@NeilBlanchard Yes that's what I meant. I don't have them anymore and ended up going for the polk r200 but it was a close battle for me.
@@generationbehindhifi I realized that it is possible that the crossover in the Q350 *could* be a series design, in which case it would be 2nd order filters on both drivers. Can you take a look at the circuit? If the positive binding post is connected to the inductor coil and the resistor, which then is connected to the tweeter, then it is a series XO. The negative tweeter lug would be connected to the positive of the woofer AND to the other side of the coil AND to the cap. The negative connection of the woofer would be connected to the other side of the cap and to the negative binding post.
The biggest improvement will be going to air core inductor of same value. Upgrading from that resistor and metal poly cap will have nil effect, unless for some reason that cap is high ESR.
Just stumbled across this channel!! So amazing!! Do you have any plans to do a Kef R3 Meta?!? Or Arendal 1961?
Thank you! I would love to do an R3 Meta. The R3 is one of my favorite bookshelves from KEF.
Will you be making a crossover upgrade video any time soon. A new design would be cool too.
It probably won't happen until winter. Work has been busy and I haven't even had time to post my regular videos. Thanks for checking in through!
@@generationbehindhifi Thanks. :)
New subscriber here. Just picked up the KEF Q350s for my first set of hi-fi speakers. If you replace the sound-deadening materials, I would love to know if there is a measurable difference in performance. If yes, your video will inspire me to do the same. Thanks for all of your hard work making these videos!
I had the q950, the tweeter sounds metallic and listening fatigue is almost instant.
We all have different tastes, but I am surprised by your comment because I felt the Q350's tweeter is rather neutral and laid back, especially when compared to the Focal Aria 906. My KEF Q350 review will be out in the first week of December.
@@generationbehindhifi He wrote "q950" instead of Q350, different speakers I guess...
@@robde-e-e Thanks, Rob! I missed that he was referring to the "Q950" and not the Q350, but they still share the same tweeter assembly. The fact is some people hear different things and that's what makes the hobby so interesting. I love my Q350's and I hope J-rod can find a set of speakers that he will enjoy.
I mean, every speaker has some downside to it. I heard a bunch of them, even over 2000 dollar price range, but I have yet to hear a speaker that sounds perfect with absolute no tone controls.
Wonder if these speakers match my Aiyima D03, because.. now i have a pair of Triangle Borea 3(90db sensitivity); the Q350 are 88db sensitive so that's why.
Triangles sounds great on the Aiyima even at low volumes.. love these speakers. But yeahh..a pair of KEF Q350 nice to have "extra" ..
Had a pair of Dali Oberon(also 88db)before and there was no problem for the Aiyima, only they gave to much low end..
Have small room(25m2), so that's why.
Is interesting, how Q150 and 350 cost roughly the same in central europe, ie around 400-430 usd range. While in western markets, Q150 comes to 300 and Q350 to 500.
Excelente aporte y muchas gracias por mostrarnos como es este parlante por dentro...........saludos
The setting on your DATS for inductance is set for 10Khz, for a woofer the 1Khz setting would be much more telling as it is much closer to the range it is covering. Using the 1K setting will show a higher value.
Hello Emmet, I'm a bit confused by this statement because DATs does a sweep from 5Hz all the way to 20KHz to determine the T/S parameters. How do I change it to 1KHz?
Never mind. I found it! Thanks for letting me know.
The kef350 have a stamped basket ?
I have two pair of the kef 300 and the spider basket is diecast and have for sure a better crossover and more material inside.
Also have a front port makes them better to place on a wall and can be bi-amp or bi-wire for who is in that kind of stuff.
Sadly KEF switched from a cast basket in the previous Q series to a stamped steel basket in the current Q series.
Yeah kef q300 is better, I have them and they are much better built and have superior specs
Those McIntosh components look splendid, IMO.....
Thank you! I love McIntosh gear! IMO their build quality is second to none!
Hi ! i'm from switzerland and i can confirm Swiss plugs and European plugs can fit in a set of banana binding post, some of them even have the perfect spacing between the two binding post hahah
Oh ! and thank you for the video, it was great ;) i'm really looking forward to your full review. I got a pair of original LS50 for 515€ about a year ago and i really love them
Awesome! Thanks for filling us in!
@@delarageaz Nice! The LS50s are great speakers!
When you unscrew, you should loose all the screws a little before unscrew them all
Pro tip: they are very often discounted around 500$. For that price those are very good speakers.
For sure. I think KEF has these on sale for $500 a pair more than they do at their regular $799 MSRP. At $500, I think they offer great value for money!
You had me at T/S parameters!
Theile/Small parameters ... describing the behaviour of the drivers.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small_parameters
Kitty!
I got rid of my focal aria. They are not accurate, the tweeter and crossover are junk.
Hope upgrade video is still planned?
It is! My day job has been busy so haven't had a lot of time to dedicate to the channel.
@@generationbehindhifi I look very much forward to that. I enjoyed your first two videos, and they were very helpful in making a purchase decision. Did you see the blog from Hifi Alex? It's in German, but google translate will help. He has a diagram for a better crossover. Not sure I can link on youtube, but you can google for "pimp a Kef Q350". Thanks again.
Love mine
Needs to be more vids like this. The manufacturers are asthetically making it look great on the outside with great quality woofers and tweeters but inside is a lightweight lame arsed crossover😢
Why are magnetic nuts an issue?
IEEE did a white paper on ferromagnetic parts in audio connectors and its a good read. Basically the study proved that ferromagnetic parts introduce passive intermodulation, aka 3rd-order harmonics distortion to the signal! Simply put, there's a reason why high end speakers use non ferromagnetic parts in the signal path.
Paper can be read here if you are a IEEE member: ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielaam/22/8681220/8632973-aam.pdf
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ferromagnetic-materials-in-audio-connectors.41867/
Does anyone know the value of the ironcore inductor? Thanks, in advance
0.9mH.
Thanks, man! Going to order upgrade parts right now.
I had the q350 for a month before returning them and getting q150s and a cheap Fosi ZA3 amp, which is the best sub-$500 system I've ever heard. They're both amazing speakers but the difference between the two is negligible when paired with a sub. q350s just aren't worth the $450 premium at the normal price, imo. Q150s at $300-$350 are a bargain.
Oh my G, the crossover is an insult!! You gotta be kidding me, for this price they can’t produce a decent one? I’m really shocked…
Regardless, they are great speakers
I highly advise against any kef speakers including the q350! I purchased the q350 3 years ago with high hopes and they are aesthetically pleasing but the sound was disappointing for $800 speakers. I could have lived with that, but after owning them less than a month the aluminum driver tore 2 inches along the edge of the surround. They were under warranty but a huge hassle sending them all the way back to Kef in New Jersey and being without them for 3 months. I had to buy different speakers to hold me over until the kef was returned. I've been bitter about that experience ever since and then a week ago lo and behold the other driver is now torn in the same place same size! If you go online you will see tons of kef speakers totally torn and gacked out in all sorts of ways! I wish I would have known 3 years ago before I ever bought Kef. Those speakers should have lasted me a lifetime and now I'm just screwed out of $800.00 with these POS speakers. I thought I was getting something beautiful and unique and high-end but I was so wrong!
There is a reason that KEF didn't spend another 7 cents to fill the enclosure with poly. I'd guess it has to do with port flow. You won't hear a difference between iron and copper. The only thing that matters are the specs, not the metal used. If you think you can hear a difference it's just because you think you hear a difference. You don't.
Perhaps, but speakers are the sum of their parts are they not? Every little detail matters to maximize sound quality. To use ferromagnetic parts vs steel is pennies more, especially at the volume these manufactures are buying them at. My question to you is if it didn't matter, then why do all the high end manufactures use non-ferromagnetic parts in their designs? This includes Bowers & Wilkins, KEF, and Sonus Faber. I'll tell you why, because they are trying to squeeze every small performance gain they can to distance themselves from the rest. As an audiophile, everyone should be thinking this way.
IEEE did a white paper on ferromagnetic parts in audio connectors and its a good read. Basically the study proved that ferromagnetic parts introduce passive intermodulation, aka 3rd-order harmonics distortion to the signal! Simply put, there's a reason why high end speakers use non ferromagnetic parts in the signal path.
Paper can be read here: ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielaam/22/8681220/8632973-aam.pdf
@@generationbehindhifi No doubt, a speaker is made of parts, but not all of them matter.
The most likely reason for the use of nonferrous is because people look at the crossovers and they have perceived value. They have absolutely nothing to do with sound as long as the specs are the same, For instance, some speaker manufacturers brag about their internal wire gauge or speaker terminals.
The IEEE paper is referring to radio frequencies. No effect at 30kHz, effect at 30GHz. You will hear absolutely no difference in speakers because those aren't audio frequencies.
Crossover components don't make a difference? I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. I can definitely hear a difference between an electrolytic cap and a MKP cap in my designs!
I'm going to disagree with your statement on the use of ferrous materials being used in the signal path. I would recommend that you purchase the book "Douglas Self's Audio Power Amplifier Design" (6th ed., 2013), on pages 426 and 427 he talks about this very thing and that third order harmonics being introduced are detectable. This guy is obviously smarter than me and so is the R&D departments at KEF, Bowers & Wilkins, and Sonus Faber. All of these speaker manufacturers do NOT use ferromagnetic parts in their higher end speaker designs. Why is that?
IMO is it really worth taking a chance when the difference between ferromagnetic parts and nonferrous parts have a difference of maybe $1.00? People are willing to spend hundreds if not thousands on speaker cable (which I don't condone), but yet will leave ferrous materials in the signal path? You're free to have your opinion on the subject, but from what I have read and studied it is measurable.
@@generationbehindhifi If you're worried about saturation get a bigger inductor. They're are a lot of designers that say a lot of things. I'd guess that an air core sounds more coppery and iron sounds more brittle and dense. The difference is in the values, not the metal.
KEF's are a really good speaker, the discount Tannoy.....lol
Hello Kitty
Movers stole my kef q100's!
I can get the Walnut 350s for $650
That sucks! Sorry to hear! KEF runs sales on their Q line of speakers quite regularly. I think KEF will have another sale right after Thanksgiving and you should be able to pick up a pair for a lot less than $650. That is if you can wait. :)
@@generationbehindhifi awesome!
Yes, I can wait. Man those lsxii are also calling me. I wish they had a q150 wireless. In other words, little cheaper than the ls50's
@@XtianApi I hear ya! Decisions like this can be tough. Personally, I have owned both the Q150 and Q350 speakers, and while the Q150 was very impressive for it's size, it just didn't have the bass output that I was looking for. Think of the Q350 as everything that the Q150 is, but just a lot more sound stage, imaging, and most of all bass!
@@generationbehindhifi really!
I've seen so little on the 350, especially in regards to the 150.
I may wait for a 500 dollar 350 sale.
Need a decent amp to pair it with, because my smsl stuff is crap
@@generationbehindhifi Would you say the highs of the Q350 are a bit muffled? I went to go listen to them at Best Buy and the soundstage was huge but just couldn't get over that they sounded muffled. especially compared to the rest of the bookshelf speakers in the same showroom. Do the Q150's have brighter highs compared to the Q350's?
Let me guess cheap film caps if that 5 GBP worth of parts per speaker.. I will make concluding comments in an edit after vid. Yes I was righ.. Why do u assume speakers need to b stuffed with wadding... It can deaden the sound too much
Im European, and that story about plug in an electrical cable to the speaker terminal is absurd. If i grab, lets say, a standar electrical cable that plugs into the wall, and intead plug it to back of the speaker, what can go wrong? nothing, theres no current coming out of the speaker terminal.. i hould just be making something stupid with no bad consequences except making myself look dumb as a door. lol
I don't like the idea of incorporating the tweeter in the middle of the woofer! naa..
What in gods name is wrong with the audiophile society. You bring back 1980 coaxial design and nothing that plays below 50 hz and everybody has an orgasm. God save the true two channel society
I think you're taking this review completely out of context. Settle down, bud! We get it, you don't like KEF, which is fine. The world would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things. Happy listening!
IKR? We need some good old Cerwin Vegas. Nothing sounds better than that big red stripe on the woofer. SL-15 is the best for some Bon Jovi and Quiet Riot 🥳🥴😵💫
Haha dude, come on, it's a small bookshelf speaker. If you need thunder bass, you get a sub
Nên đặt máy quay cố định
Lol, feline interference. KEF is tuned very nice
haha! I think Max (my cat) loves the speakers as much as I do.
So about $50 worth of parts then.
2500$ за скворечник и 1 динамик!!! Да этому KEF цена на больше 300$
Based on construction, this should be about a $550 set of speakers. I mean really, at $800 for the pair they use a STAMPED STEEL frame basket? Then there is that crossover. I mean, really, with such few parts, couldn't they opted for an air core coil? More and more I been seeing that KEF is heading down the road of Focal and they are becoming a "Troll" manufacturer that overprices their products. Sorry, Pass. I think for concentric driver speakers, Tannoys are built better than this. One thing I do give to KEF is that I was surprised that they are using a VERY thick front baffle and also their input terminals are mostly brass. It is shocking when compared to that Focal speaker for $2200, but then again, I am NOT surprised.
The Q350s are $500 speakers. KEF has them on sale for this price quite a bit throughout the year. At $500, they are one of my favorite speakers in this price range.
@@generationbehindhifi That is better pricing for them, but I have it been hearing it to often from known audiophiles and they are not keen on the concentric drivers. By itself the KEFs sound fine, but when compared to other speakers, and often cheaper ones, they come off as just OK. Lately, I have been leaning towards Wharfedale as that seems to be a nicely built speaker, but I hear the high end is laid back on those and I am more of a Klipsch person that prefers a more lively top end. The scary thing is that I bought the Sony SSCS5's based on a reviewer here on You Tube, and for a $123 pair of speakers, the midrange is better on those than the $350 set of Klipsch RP-600m's I have. As for KEF, I am curious to how the Q150 sounds. There are at least two reviewers I came across that prefer this speaker over the LS50's! ...And it is far cheaper too!
@@jukingeo I love the KEF Uni-Q drivers. I think they sound phenomenal for the money. Sound quality is a personal preference and a very subjective topic. Some people like them and some people don't, which is fine. I wasn't a fan of the Q150 and I think its laughable that some people actually think they sound "better" than the LS50, but who am I to argue with them if they truly believe that. I used to own the Q150 and found they lacked bass so I returned them for the Q350. IMO the Q350 is a much better speaker. I talk about all this in my Q150 and Q350 review videos. If I were you, order both and decide for yourself. :)
@@generationbehindhifi I guess to each their own, but initially, I have heard the rants and raves about how good the LS-50 is, but lately I have been hearing the other side of the equation. It seems as if the Q-150 and A-350 are priced reasonably enough to try out. But if you ask me, the asking price of the LS-50 is a big NO. I have a problem in general when it comes to spending more than $650 for bookshelf speakers. I just feel for the average size (woofers below 8" in diameter), and overall construction, there is only so much you can put into a small speaker. It gets to a point where it downright overcharging. I mean would you go to a hardware store and spend $1000 on a hammer? No, I don't think so. BTW, I made a mistake. The guy that likes the Q150 better compared them to the LS-50 and not the Q350. He still has the Q150 and sold the LS-50s.
@@jukingeo I think you might be over simplifying it with the hammer analogy but I see your point. No doubt in this hobby you get to the point of diminishing returns as you move up in price, but in most cases (depends on brand) there are tremendous differences in quality of parts, cabinet construction, and drivers when comparing a pair of $650 bookshelf speakers to a $2000+ pair. Is the more expensive speaker worth it? Well, that depends on the person. To me it is, but I also have 15k tower speakers in my theater room and I really enjoy this hobby. As for the guy who thinks his Q150's are better than LS50's, great! But I strongly disagree with his statement, but I'm sure my wife wished I had ears like him. LOL!
stop pushing away your orange tabby he's interested in what your doing
LOL! He was after the screws. If I don't push him away I will never see them again!!!!
Wow..... The crossover looks so small and cheap.....
It's a basic 1st order filter, but at least they are using a poly cap instead of an electrolytic cap on the tweeter circuit!
disappointing crossover 😞
Agreed. But the Q350 is still one of my favorite bookshelf speakers when on sale for $499.99 a pair. Most of the competition is using 5.25" drivers whereas KEF is using a 6.5", which puts them at an advantage IMO.
Cheap particle board bracing and cheap crossover. How disappointing.
doesnt know what plastic plugs in speaker connectors are for - kinda destroys any credibility this guy might think he has
LOL! They told me I needed to have thick skin to create content on youtube when people like this comment. Simply put, I'm not a charlatan youtuber like some of the others and I will NOT pretend to know about a subject when I know nothing about it. If that's what you want, then this channel isn't for you.
It looks very cheap.
Totally agree with you 🤝
They are I went to Best Buy and pushed on the cone with my finger with little to no force and it ripped the cone
@@JJG22speakersMaybe because its not made for little kids like you to push the cone
@@JJG22speakers....so you are kind of that small kiddy fingering type.....who want to destroy everything which he come across.....
Looks doesn't matter.....it sounds fantastic
5:30 speaker dampening is not necessary on ported boxes all it does is choke the sound
Hello, I couldn't disagree more with this statement. What about the standing waves within the enclosure if damping material is not necessary on ported boxes? I don't know where you heard that, but I would recommend reading up on the subject more because damping material is absolutely necessary for speaker enclosures, ported or not.
@@generationbehindhifi I’m not gonna argue with you. If you think that really matters you’ve never built your own box and listened to it you’re a sheep who listens to other people online
I cannot recommend these speakers. very cheap first-order crossover (6dB/octave). Yes, it would still be fine for a bass speaker, but for a tweeter, a crossover of the second order is always used, but never (6dB/octave). you can hear harshness due to poor filtering and overall poorly designed speakers. Considering the price, there are much better speakers such as wharfedale, Canton, jamo, q acoustics..