Two things to point out: 1) You can choose a target even if it's silly to still get the spell's other effects. You can "counter target spell" that can't be countered, "destroy target creature" with indestructible, or "gain control of target creature" you already control. So, for example, Act of Treason can be used just to give your own creature haste. 2) Since you brought up Decimate, this seems important: You don't actually need four distinct targets. You can, for example, pick the same Baleful Strix for your artifact and creature and then the same Urza's Saga for your enchantment and land.
Act of Treason is also an untap effect in red. I can't count the number of 3/4 untapped Vampire Nighthawks I got free damage with using Mark of Mutiny in Zendikar limited.
Many an enfranchised rules lawyer had so thoroughly convinced me that Decimate was unplayable because it fizzled if it lost any of its targets. To the point that I haven’t been playing it in my decks for years, citing that as the reason why not. Thank you Gavin for clearing that up!
The wrinkle that a spell will fizzle only if it has no legal targets on resolution is now much better illustrated for me. Until now, I was not confident about how to interpret those decimate and cryptic command examples, so thank you Gavin!
Same stream different direction, I think these deserve to be mentioned because they DON’T target: Clones enter the battlefield as a copy and never actually target. Auras entering the battlefield WITHOUT being cast (e.g. Brilliant Restoration, Replenish). These can slide onto even shrouded creatures, but will fall off if the creature has appropriate protection.
Cards like Lorehold Command and Dark Salvation deliberately target players in addition to creatures specifically to get around the "I sac my creature in response and fizzle the effect" trick. It reads a little weirder, but it helps make the rules work. One thing that really surprised me in the Warhammer 40k decks was that Blight Grenade and Mandate of Abaddon seemingly just sort of forgot, or didn't care, about this problem? It's strange to me that they weren't worded as "Choose a creature" to avoid that feel-bad case.
Especially in the case of the Mandate, that means the opponent doesn't get the chance to interact. If I have a 1/1, a 3/3, and a 5/5 in play, and you have a 2/2 and a 4/4, if it didn't target, you wouldn't know if you have to try to protect your 4/4 or not.
I love this kind of video. Keep it up! (I also remember the neat multiple ninjutsu trick in an old video. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it happen on Arena.)
You forgot to mention the flipside of targeting: when you need a creature or artifact on an opponents board to target for one of your cards. If you need them to have a creature in play for that Decimate to have all legal targets (an issue after a boardwipe) you can tap your Forbidden Orchard to give a player a 1/1 spirit token. Or if you need them to have an artifact (this only works if they 1 or less mana available), cast Fateful Absence. Another way around the issue of your opponent not having an artifact is through either of the Liquimetal cards. Thran Forge also does the same. Shenanigans should be enjoyed to make sure you get your targets when the targets are removed, by say... a Gavin. 😃
One of my favorites is Canopy Cover. Its effect on one of your own creatures is, effectively, hexproof. But, cast it on an opponent's creature, and now they can't target their own creature, because you still control the aura. A very flexible aura in any deck with green that relies on its commander.
Shocking how few people understand this. Even seasoned players in my ONE prerelease had to call 3 judges to be convinced of the cryptic command esque scenario.
That was actually the ONE(!) thing I learnt from this video. I would have assumed the spell would continue resolving to the best of its ability. I didn't consider that it no longer had any "targets" per se and would therefore fizzle.
It's new to me that you can fizzle a modal spell by making one of its chosen modes invalid if it and only it involves targeting. So [Recover] is worded like it has two modes and if the first one doesn't have a target, the second one doesn't resolve either. (C.R. 608.2b) Also new that if a card asks you to choose a creature type, it is chosen only when it resolves, not when it's put on the stack. Not sure which part of C.R. references it.
I enchanted someone's 4/4 toxic guy with Combat Research. It reads like I would get card draw if damaged me. Which is not the case. But it worked. 4 turns not attacking.
If you look at modal spells that get made nowadays, you'll notice lines like "Target player gains 8 life." This so if one mode fizzles, the other still has a legal target.
I didn't know that the spell doesn't fizzle when you remove only one of multiple targets! One point I'll add building on this is that it took me awhile to realize I needed to play around graveyard hate when drafting the Innistrad sets. Opponents were blowing me out with rotten reunion.
Two more important ones: Aura spells require a target when they are cast, and are therefore stopped by abilities like hexproof and shroud. If you put them into the battlefield some other way, such as through zur, the enchanter's ability or via a replenish, you just attach them to a valid thing of your choice. This means that they don't target and so you could imprison in the moon a creature equipped with swiftfoot boots. The target on oblivion ring is an enter the battlefield ability so you don't need to announce it until after it has resolved
I did the part in your first paragraph when I played a Sun Titan to bring back a Reprobation and put it on my opponent's commander that had Ward 7. He said, "Do you have 7 mana to pay?" to which I replied, "No, I don't have to." The table was flabbergasted as I explained and showed the ruling that you only target with auras if they are CAST, not put onto battlefield, thus, you can disable people's commanders that have both boots and greaves if you resurrect a card like Reprobation (or in your case, Zur). This same reason is why Bruna, Light of Alabaster works well with Greaves, as she "puts onto the battlefield," bypassing the Shroud targetting issue, while also dodging Hexproof work arounds like Shadowspear and Archetype of Endurance.
Clones: 95% Don't target. Don't say what you're cloning unless it's resolving. Likewise, Oblivion Ring: ETB, so don't mention target until the Ring is in play and the trigger is on the stack. And auras? They only target when you cast them. If they get flickered, or otherwise come into play, they can be attached to anything that's legal for them, even if it has hexproof or shroud.
I will say it's fun to counter Ziatora's treasure generating ability by making her burn target illegal. And while it doesn't come up often, I countered a player's Jeska's Will by killing the player he was targeting with an instant. No mana generated, no cards passion drawn. XD
I feel a bit stupid now, but after 25 years of playing Magic I now finally understand why and when a spell doesn't resolve. I knew the trick with Cryptic Command, but I've tried the same thing with other spells but they still resolved. Now I finally know why! Thanks! On an other note: Any chance to see you back on Twitch? I always loved your streams and the segments where you would tell a fact about a card of a viewer's choice!
Okay... so let's pretend decimate had a second ability to draw a card. If all 4 targets were removed in response the draw a card would fail right? So as long as 1 target remains the it would resolve? And that is why cryptic will fail, but decimate won't?
As long as at least one target is still legal when it goes to resolve, the spell will resolve as best as it can with the remaining legal targets. But if all of the targets are illegal when it goes to resolve, the entire spell or ability does nothing, including the parts that don't target.
Though I know it doesn't have to do explicitly with the word Target, I've always found it interesting the cards that use the word "choose" instead which kind of gets around hexproof and other common targeting mechanics
Does anyone have suggestions for more videos like this? I started playing in 5th grade up to now (I've been out of school for about roughly 5 years now, I was class of 2018) and I've always enjoyed learning new things. I already follow Tolarian Community College, Command Zone Podcast, and MTGGoldfish.
You said to leave a comment if someone learned something, and I absolutely DID learn something! I learned that I already knew everything you discussed, and you forgot to add an important "target" topic mention this video. How to pseudo-target shroud and hexproof creatures through spells and abilities that don't actually target, but instead let's a player "select" or "choose" something, which can be the very thing your opponent thought you couldn't select. I'm smart and I want pants, so I'm a smarty-pants. You're welcome dummies. 😄
I have to admit, this video gave me a lot, I have to see it once more to fully comprehend it. I'm back in magic for like 1 month from cca 15 years long hiatus :D
Before watching this video, I know i didn't quite understand all the differences. After watching dthe video, I now know there are more possibilities I have no idea about. Still very confused. Love your video though!
Super interesting video. Once, playing Boros Burn in Modern, I missed a lethal line that involved casting Searing Blaze on my Swiftspear (the only legal target) to get her to 3/4 and swing for lethal. I lost the torunament because of that, but I learned something!
I just saw the First Look at March of the Machines and love that Planechase is back and in the precon decks! Me and my play group have been using the original planechase for years now when playing commander and it is a lot of fun! It can change the course of a whole game! I’ve gone from losing to winning just by changing planes! I’ve also won on turn 1 playing a five color deck and getting chaos to add WUBRG and cast my commander! Just wanted to share that and say thank you!
Yeah I got scammed in the finals of a tourny that 1st won a Bob. I was on bogels and opponent was on Ux control. I was attacking for lethal (game 3) and they cast Cryptic command bouncing their snapcaster mage and tapping all my creatures. I pathed the snap and should have won but he called the judge and argued that he didn't know that's how targeting worked and they let him repick his CC modes... Never went back as the judge was the store owner.
"You have to select all legal targets before the spell or ability goes onto the stack" Well, unless you've got a Krark-clan Ironworks, a card with a targeting trick so complicated it got banned.
I had a Spellskite to block Aetherflux reservoir, then played Leonin abunas only to get shot in the face because Spellskite got shroud. Not my brightest moment.
These interactions and nuances are obviously hard to communicate to players through single cards and almost require players to have advanced game knowledge. How much work goes in to trying to make future cards, mechanics and interactions feel more intuitive and unequivocally to play during the design process?
You forgot to mention how when auras enter the battlefield without being cast, they just attach themselves to a valid target without actually targeting it so it bypasses shroud, hexproof and ward. It might seem niche but in decks that can abuse it, it's extremely useful as you can turn a normally impossible or incredibly difficult to remove target (ie: a voltroned Uril or something similar) and just make it a forest or indestructible bug. My Yorion deck in commander abuses this to make reality acid into possibly one of the strongest removal spells ever as it can attach to anything it needs to regardless of whether it has hexproof or shroud and ignores indestructible by being a forced sac.
I didn’t concretely know that all of what follows a targeting clause is contingent on targeting, versus the when you do example. I wonder if that quid pro quo could be templated more clearly.
When are you guys going to fix the rules so that auras and equipment no longer target? It's so frustrating when teaching new player that a spell or ability only targets if it uses the word "target"... except if it's an aura or equip ability (but also only if the aura is being cast). It's very annoying to have such a glaring exception in the rules that isn't spelled out on the cards. Reading the card should explain the card, but auras don't use the word target in their rules text.
0:13 bruh this whole time I thought that thing was an EYE (it seems like it probably intentionally resembles an eye? regardless of whether it’s intended to seem like an eye or not, I had NO IDEA it was a boat)
At 3:50 he says to look out for the word "target" and proceeds to highlight the word "flying" on basilica skullbomb. Oops! Does that count as an illegal target? Or does it still resolve because he found another target?
A banding creature can block any amount of damage from a trample creature Abilities like protection and indestructible are powerful with banding as they ensure none of your other creatures in the band have to take any damage. Protection doesn't give it's evasion to the band however since if you block any creature in the band, you block them all. Blocking a band with a mix of first strike and regular damage is the only way to kill multiple creatures in that band via combat damage Shelkin brownie is a bad card. Not just because bands with others is on only 7 cards (one of which is an un card), but because of how it works and the specific cards it's on. The 5 lands that grant bands with legends grant it to all your legends of that color. You need multiple legends to have it be relevant, and to attack with them in a band, you only need 1 of them to have bands with legends. So for the brownie to do anything, you need to only have 1 legend of the color specified and some number of legends outside of that color. The other black bordered card that grants bands with others is master of the wild hunt. He makes tokens that band with eachother, but that gives the same problem. You need to have multiple tokens for it to do anything, but you only need one of them to have the ability meaning removing it from one won't do anything. So the only card shelkin brownie's ability is relevant against is a card that can only attack twice and was printed a decade later, is not officially legal in any format and could only band with a creature type that wasn't added to the game officially for another decade and a half afterwards. I hope you found some of those interesting.
I'm surprised that auras entering the battlefield without casting(returning from the graveyard for example) were not mentioned. They are the only permanents that require to target something when being cast yet if not cast as a spell you just have to choose a legal target for them but that doesn't count as targeting. It is niche for sure but can be very powerful because this gets around not only hexproof or shroud but even protection from colours or enchantments.
Glad you have been post more lately! So modal spells the targets are chosen after the spell resolves correct? Second question What happened to your series with Melissa and the commander decks?
I knew that spells with multiple targets will still try to resolve as best they can if they lose a target, but I did not know that they'll still fizzle completely if they lose ALL their targets.
A lot of people have incorrectly informed me that removing one target from a card that has several specific targets means the whole card fizzles. Glad to see that it isn't true!
I would like a follow up video which goes a little more in depth about this topic! There are a lot of blowouts and sneaky tricks one can do, that are not that intuitiv on first look.
I've a rulings question. Many cards, like Reality chip, allow you to "look at the top card of your library at any time". At what times can you not do this action. Can you do it while resolving spells like Brainstorm? While scrying, revealing or looking at what is the "top card of your library". A video covering this ability could be fun.
You can do it while half way through a brainstorm. You can do it while looking at the top card of your library, although you won't get any new information as it's the same card. While scrying, the cards stay on top during the whole process so you can't see beneath them until afterwards if you put them all on bottom. You can't look beneath a spell that you are casting from the top of your library until you have already chosen the targets/modes, payed for it, and put it on the stack.
I didn't know cryptic command could fizzle if you get rid of one of its targets. How come that one doesn't behave like a decimate if some sacrifices a creature in response?
A spell is fizzled if *all* of its targets are invalid. So if you choose a combo for Cryptic that only has one target (like bounce + draw), and that one target gets removed, it fizzles. If you pick counter + bounce, it'll have two targets, so the targeted spell will still get countered even if the targeted creature gets hexproof or something.
The key is all the targets being invalid. Choosing "Tap all creatures..." and "Draw a card" has no targets, for example. "Counter target spell" and "Return target creature..." will both add the targeting requirement that could make this a risk.
I still don't fully get why decimate resolves with a missing target but recover? Doesn't draw you the cards. Is there a trick to telling a difference between the cards? Really enjoy these rules tricks videos Gavin! I'd love a vehicles one next
A card only fizzles if all targets are no longer legal. Recover only has one target, so if that is no longer legal it doesn't do anything. Decimate has 4 targets, so if one of them is no longer legal, the rest are still destroyed. It only fizzles if all 4 are no longer legal.
Auras only require targets when casting them. When put into the battlefield in other ways, you choose what they enchant. This means that zur the enchanter or replenish can put an imprisoned in the moon onto a creature equipped with swiftfoot boots or lightning greaves. Council's judgement can also get around them because voting isn't targeting Clones also say choose.
I learned an impressive amount about targeting with my white whale card: Flesh Allergy. I’ve spent a decade trying to break the card and have experienced more than one way the card can fizzle.
Ah yes, single target, and only if that's still valid when the spell starts resolving, somebody might actually lose life. These Bone Splinters effects always have you pay upfront for something that might not actually happen.
I didn't know that removing the target of a cryptic command would fizzle the entire command as a result, I figured because the other modes could still happen the rest resolved
It depends on which modes you choose. If you choose the two targeted modes it will still happen, if you choose the two modes that don't your fine as well, but if only one target (especially the bounce) people can mess you up. When it was played in Standard and Modern you would often see Pro's picking modes that seem less ideal, but make it harder for their opponent to fizzle the spell.
So how does random targeting work when prices increase on certain targets. For example, goblin test pilot when there is a kopala on board making so when goblin test pilot randomly targets a merfolk, it costs 2 more when you can't pay 2 more. Does it get rolled back or?
Regarding how Decimate will still resolve if something is sacrificed in response: does this also apply to Heliod's Intervention? I had opponents sacrifice targets in response and I was convinced that then the spell fizzles and all of the other targets would be safe
It does apply. If you target 3 things, and they sacrifice one in response or give it hexproof, the other two still die. It only fizzles if they are all no longer legal targets.
I certainly wasn't aware that the "when you do" spells can have targets that aren't declared when the spell is announced but gain them partway through resolution. That's pretty weird.
Technically, you're putting a trigger on the stack (they're called "reflexive triggers"), and that trigger is what's doing the targeting. Players get a chance to respond to the trigger like normal (so you can still do things in response to the reflexive trigger).
If CC was cast with one mode that has a target, and one that doesn't, and the targeted mode loses its target, the spell no longer has any targets left, and therefor fizzles. Decimate has 5 targets, and needs to lose all 5 before it fizzles. But if you cast CC with two targeting modes, and only one loses its target, it still resolves, since it still has a target left.
Can someone explain to me why decimate WILL resolve in response to removing a target from the spell but cryptic command WILL NOT resolve if you remove one of its targets
Decimate has four targets. It will only fail to resolve if all four targets are illegal when it goes to resolve. Crypyic Command has somewhere between 0 and 2 targets. If you choose a combination of modes so it only has one target, then if that target is illegal when it goes to resolve, the entire spell does nothing and none of its effects will happen (including the part does not target).
Something's not clicking with regards to why I can sacrifice Commander's Sphere in response to Decimate and the spell still resolves, but in the next example, with Cryptic Command, if I doom blade the creature in response, the whole spell fizzles. I'm not getting the difference there. Any idea what I might be missing?
@@GoodMorningMagic thank you! I think I understand. So if someone was using the "Counter Target Spell" mode of Cryptic Command to counter something and then chose one of my creatures with the "Return Target Permanent" mode. I Doom Blade my creature in response and the counterspell mode still happens because there's still a legal target?
I think you missed a very important targeting trick involving auras. Auras target when they are cast... but not when they enter the battlefield as part of another effect, such as Sun Titan. Which means you can get around shroud and hexproof to enchant a permanent this way.
3:47 “Keep an eye out for the word target…”, or flying, I guess. It is an important one too!
Or deathtouch
Or Lifelink
Two things to point out:
1) You can choose a target even if it's silly to still get the spell's other effects. You can "counter target spell" that can't be countered, "destroy target creature" with indestructible, or "gain control of target creature" you already control. So, for example, Act of Treason can be used just to give your own creature haste.
2) Since you brought up Decimate, this seems important: You don't actually need four distinct targets. You can, for example, pick the same Baleful Strix for your artifact and creature and then the same Urza's Saga for your enchantment and land.
Act of Treason is also an untap effect in red.
I can't count the number of 3/4 untapped Vampire Nighthawks I got free damage with using Mark of Mutiny in Zendikar limited.
@@Suspinded Also a one shot haste enabler for one of your own team
I have a Krenko commander deck built around using Act of Treason effects to untap my own Krenko as much as possible. It's pretty fun.
self-targeting with an act of treason effect is the whole reason the Kiki-Jiki / Zealous Conscripts combo works.
This goes as well for copy-spell effects. Kicked Rite of Replication targeting my legendary Zada, Hedron Grinder? Yes please!!
I like casting Vines of Vastwood on an opponent's creature when they try to pump it or equip something to it.
A classic! Nice one
Many an enfranchised rules lawyer had so thoroughly convinced me that Decimate was unplayable because it fizzled if it lost any of its targets. To the point that I haven’t been playing it in my decks for years, citing that as the reason why not. Thank you Gavin for clearing that up!
They weren't very good rules lawyers then if they were wrong. :D
My understanding was it used to fizzle if it lost any of the targets but that they changed the rules on it couple years ago
They used to be correct, but the rules on spells with multiple targets changed a while ago.
The wrinkle that a spell will fizzle only if it has no legal targets on resolution is now much better illustrated for me. Until now, I was not confident about how to interpret those decimate and cryptic command examples, so thank you Gavin!
Same stream different direction, I think these deserve to be mentioned because they DON’T target:
Clones enter the battlefield as a copy and never actually target.
Auras entering the battlefield WITHOUT being cast (e.g. Brilliant Restoration, Replenish). These can slide onto even shrouded creatures, but will fall off if the creature has appropriate protection.
Fun vid, always good to reinforce this kind of stuff.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cards like Lorehold Command and Dark Salvation deliberately target players in addition to creatures specifically to get around the "I sac my creature in response and fizzle the effect" trick. It reads a little weirder, but it helps make the rules work.
One thing that really surprised me in the Warhammer 40k decks was that Blight Grenade and Mandate of Abaddon seemingly just sort of forgot, or didn't care, about this problem? It's strange to me that they weren't worded as "Choose a creature" to avoid that feel-bad case.
Especially in the case of the Mandate, that means the opponent doesn't get the chance to interact. If I have a 1/1, a 3/3, and a 5/5 in play, and you have a 2/2 and a 4/4, if it didn't target, you wouldn't know if you have to try to protect your 4/4 or not.
@@Natedogg2 Personally, I think that's a preferable fail case to having the whole spell fizzle if your creature gets Unsummoned in response.
3:46 "Keep an eye out for the word target"
*highlights the word flying
Or banding
I love this kind of video. Keep it up! (I also remember the neat multiple ninjutsu trick in an old video. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it happen on Arena.)
Full control mode maybe?
You forgot to mention the flipside of targeting: when you need a creature or artifact on an opponents board to target for one of your cards. If you need them to have a creature in play for that Decimate to have all legal targets (an issue after a boardwipe) you can tap your Forbidden Orchard to give a player a 1/1 spirit token. Or if you need them to have an artifact (this only works if they 1 or less mana available), cast Fateful Absence. Another way around the issue of your opponent not having an artifact is through either of the Liquimetal cards. Thran Forge also does the same. Shenanigans should be enjoyed to make sure you get your targets when the targets are removed, by say... a Gavin. 😃
One of my favorites is Canopy Cover. Its effect on one of your own creatures is, effectively, hexproof. But, cast it on an opponent's creature, and now they can't target their own creature, because you still control the aura. A very flexible aura in any deck with green that relies on its commander.
Gavin did teach me at least one thing. That my brain is too smooth for high level magic.
Shocking how few people understand this. Even seasoned players in my ONE prerelease had to call 3 judges to be convinced of the cryptic command esque scenario.
That was actually the ONE(!) thing I learnt from this video. I would have assumed the spell would continue resolving to the best of its ability. I didn't consider that it no longer had any "targets" per se and would therefore fizzle.
It's new to me that you can fizzle a modal spell by making one of its chosen modes invalid if it and only it involves targeting. So [Recover] is worded like it has two modes and if the first one doesn't have a target, the second one doesn't resolve either. (C.R. 608.2b)
Also new that if a card asks you to choose a creature type, it is chosen only when it resolves, not when it's put on the stack. Not sure which part of C.R. references it.
I enchanted someone's 4/4 toxic guy with Combat Research. It reads like I would get card draw if damaged me. Which is not the case. But it worked. 4 turns not attacking.
Thanks, Gavin. Here's what I learned today: even though I've been playing since the beginning, I'll never really understand this game.
If you look at modal spells that get made nowadays, you'll notice lines like "Target player gains 8 life." This so if one mode fizzles, the other still has a legal target.
I didn't know that the spell doesn't fizzle when you remove only one of multiple targets! One point I'll add building on this is that it took me awhile to realize I needed to play around graveyard hate when drafting the Innistrad sets. Opponents were blowing me out with rotten reunion.
I didn't know the purpose of "when you do" until this video, but it makes a lot of sense now.
Two more important ones:
Aura spells require a target when they are cast, and are therefore stopped by abilities like hexproof and shroud. If you put them into the battlefield some other way, such as through zur, the enchanter's ability or via a replenish, you just attach them to a valid thing of your choice. This means that they don't target and so you could imprison in the moon a creature equipped with swiftfoot boots.
The target on oblivion ring is an enter the battlefield ability so you don't need to announce it until after it has resolved
I did the part in your first paragraph when I played a Sun Titan to bring back a Reprobation and put it on my opponent's commander that had Ward 7. He said, "Do you have 7 mana to pay?" to which I replied, "No, I don't have to." The table was flabbergasted as I explained and showed the ruling that you only target with auras if they are CAST, not put onto battlefield, thus, you can disable people's commanders that have both boots and greaves if you resurrect a card like Reprobation (or in your case, Zur). This same reason is why Bruna, Light of Alabaster works well with Greaves, as she "puts onto the battlefield," bypassing the Shroud targetting issue, while also dodging Hexproof work arounds like Shadowspear and Archetype of Endurance.
Clones: 95% Don't target. Don't say what you're cloning unless it's resolving. Likewise, Oblivion Ring: ETB, so don't mention target until the Ring is in play and the trigger is on the stack.
And auras? They only target when you cast them. If they get flickered, or otherwise come into play, they can be attached to anything that's legal for them, even if it has hexproof or shroud.
I will say it's fun to counter Ziatora's treasure generating ability by making her burn target illegal. And while it doesn't come up often, I countered a player's Jeska's Will by killing the player he was targeting with an instant. No mana generated, no cards passion drawn. XD
I feel a bit stupid now, but after 25 years of playing Magic I now finally understand why and when a spell doesn't resolve. I knew the trick with Cryptic Command, but I've tried the same thing with other spells but they still resolved. Now I finally know why! Thanks!
On an other note: Any chance to see you back on Twitch? I always loved your streams and the segments where you would tell a fact about a card of a viewer's choice!
Glad it was helpful!! And hope to come back sometime for sure. 😅
The number of times someone has told me my decimate didn't resolve because they killed the creature I was targeting in response is STAGGERING
Okay... so let's pretend decimate had a second ability to draw a card. If all 4 targets were removed in response the draw a card would fail right? So as long as 1 target remains the it would resolve?
And that is why cryptic will fail, but decimate won't?
As long as at least one target is still legal when it goes to resolve, the spell will resolve as best as it can with the remaining legal targets. But if all of the targets are illegal when it goes to resolve, the entire spell or ability does nothing, including the parts that don't target.
Though I know it doesn't have to do explicitly with the word Target, I've always found it interesting the cards that use the word "choose" instead which kind of gets around hexproof and other common targeting mechanics
That feels really messy imo
@@freddiesimmons1394 it is lol
It's great that you're back posting regularly Gavin, I love your videos.
Thank you for watching!!
This was a really helpful video. Good job. Also I hate it when Magic players refer to cards as "technology." Stop!
Does anyone have suggestions for more videos like this? I started playing in 5th grade up to now (I've been out of school for about roughly 5 years now, I was class of 2018) and I've always enjoyed learning new things.
I already follow Tolarian Community College, Command Zone Podcast, and MTGGoldfish.
You said to leave a comment if someone learned something, and I absolutely DID learn something! I learned that I already knew everything you discussed, and you forgot to add an important "target" topic mention this video. How to pseudo-target shroud and hexproof creatures through spells and abilities that don't actually target, but instead let's a player "select" or "choose" something, which can be the very thing your opponent thought you couldn't select. I'm smart and I want pants, so I'm a smarty-pants. You're welcome dummies. 😄
I have to admit, this video gave me a lot, I have to see it once more to fully comprehend it.
I'm back in magic for like 1 month from cca 15 years long hiatus :D
Before watching this video, I know i didn't quite understand all the differences.
After watching dthe video, I now know there are more possibilities I have no idea about.
Still very confused.
Love your video though!
Super interesting video. Once, playing Boros Burn in Modern, I missed a lethal line that involved casting Searing Blaze on my Swiftspear (the only legal target) to get her to 3/4 and swing for lethal. I lost the torunament because of that, but I learned something!
I just saw the First Look at March of the Machines and love that Planechase is back and in the precon decks! Me and my play group have been using the original planechase for years now when playing commander and it is a lot of fun! It can change the course of a whole game! I’ve gone from losing to winning just by changing planes! I’ve also won on turn 1 playing a five color deck and getting chaos to add WUBRG and cast my commander! Just wanted to share that and say thank you!
Yeah I got scammed in the finals of a tourny that 1st won a Bob. I was on bogels and opponent was on Ux control. I was attacking for lethal (game 3) and they cast Cryptic command bouncing their snapcaster mage and tapping all my creatures. I pathed the snap and should have won but he called the judge and argued that he didn't know that's how targeting worked and they let him repick his CC modes... Never went back as the judge was the store owner.
"You have to select all legal targets before the spell or ability goes onto the stack"
Well, unless you've got a Krark-clan Ironworks, a card with a targeting trick so complicated it got banned.
That gifts ungiven trick was neat. I didn't even think about getting rid of YOURSELF as a target to fizzle a spell.
I had a Spellskite to block Aetherflux reservoir, then played Leonin abunas only to get shot in the face because Spellskite got shroud. Not my brightest moment.
These interactions and nuances are obviously hard to communicate to players through single cards and almost require players to have advanced game knowledge. How much work goes in to trying to make future cards, mechanics and interactions feel more intuitive and unequivocally to play during the design process?
You forgot to mention how when auras enter the battlefield without being cast, they just attach themselves to a valid target without actually targeting it so it bypasses shroud, hexproof and ward. It might seem niche but in decks that can abuse it, it's extremely useful as you can turn a normally impossible or incredibly difficult to remove target (ie: a voltroned Uril or something similar) and just make it a forest or indestructible bug.
My Yorion deck in commander abuses this to make reality acid into possibly one of the strongest removal spells ever as it can attach to anything it needs to regardless of whether it has hexproof or shroud and ignores indestructible by being a forced sac.
I didn’t concretely know that all of what follows a targeting clause is contingent on targeting, versus the when you do example. I wonder if that quid pro quo could be templated more clearly.
When are you guys going to fix the rules so that auras and equipment no longer target? It's so frustrating when teaching new player that a spell or ability only targets if it uses the word "target"... except if it's an aura or equip ability (but also only if the aura is being cast). It's very annoying to have such a glaring exception in the rules that isn't spelled out on the cards. Reading the card should explain the card, but auras don't use the word target in their rules text.
0:13 bruh this whole time I thought that thing was an EYE
(it seems like it probably intentionally resembles an eye? regardless of whether it’s intended to seem like an eye or not, I had NO IDEA it was a boat)
At 3:50 he says to look out for the word "target" and proceeds to highlight the word "flying" on basilica skullbomb. Oops! Does that count as an illegal target? Or does it still resolve because he found another target?
How does the “if you do” work? Specifically on cards like archfiend’s vessel? Exiling it isn’t a may.
The amount of things I still learn about Magic after 13 years of playing it amaze me. Such a deep f***ing game. I love it.
Will we get a video on funny interactions with banding?
A banding creature can block any amount of damage from a trample creature
Abilities like protection and indestructible are powerful with banding as they ensure none of your other creatures in the band have to take any damage. Protection doesn't give it's evasion to the band however since if you block any creature in the band, you block them all.
Blocking a band with a mix of first strike and regular damage is the only way to kill multiple creatures in that band via combat damage
Shelkin brownie is a bad card. Not just because bands with others is on only 7 cards (one of which is an un card), but because of how it works and the specific cards it's on. The 5 lands that grant bands with legends grant it to all your legends of that color. You need multiple legends to have it be relevant, and to attack with them in a band, you only need 1 of them to have bands with legends. So for the brownie to do anything, you need to only have 1 legend of the color specified and some number of legends outside of that color. The other black bordered card that grants bands with others is master of the wild hunt. He makes tokens that band with eachother, but that gives the same problem. You need to have multiple tokens for it to do anything, but you only need one of them to have the ability meaning removing it from one won't do anything. So the only card shelkin brownie's ability is relevant against is a card that can only attack twice and was printed a decade later, is not officially legal in any format and could only band with a creature type that wasn't added to the game officially for another decade and a half afterwards.
I hope you found some of those interesting.
UUUUH, come again?? I feel like I dont even understand Magic now!!! Thanks alot Gavin! lol
I'm surprised that auras entering the battlefield without casting(returning from the graveyard for example) were not mentioned. They are the only permanents that require to target something when being cast yet if not cast as a spell you just have to choose a legal target for them but that doesn't count as targeting. It is niche for sure but can be very powerful because this gets around not only hexproof or shroud but even protection from colours or enchantments.
Can someone explain how Druid of Purification doesn’t target, getting around hexproof and protection. Choose is somehow different?
Glad you have been post more lately!
So modal spells the targets are chosen after the spell resolves correct?
Second question What happened to your series with Melissa and the commander decks?
This is great. More combat and targeting tricks videos, please.
Auras target when you cast them, but don't when you blink them, so it can be important to deal with hexproof/shroud
Going to release community engagement content about MTG 30th? Engage in discourse with those who built this up?
AEGIS TURTLEEEEEE !!!! Thats my favorite pet blue card
hmm. you know what. i dont get why recover fizzles but decimate doesnt. is it a two step thing because the lack of commas and the spacing?
The choosing a creature upon resolution was something I didn’t realize about cards like Kindred Dominance
When was this change made? I remember thinking hex was really bad because it had to target 6 creatures and would fizzle if a creature was sacrificed
I knew that spells with multiple targets will still try to resolve as best they can if they lose a target, but I did not know that they'll still fizzle completely if they lose ALL their targets.
I wish you talked about councils judgement and choose getting around hexproof
Surprised the Aura ETB from graveyard trick to dodge shroud/hexproof didnt come up
A lot of people have incorrectly informed me that removing one target from a card that has several specific targets means the whole card fizzles. Glad to see that it isn't true!
I would like a follow up video which goes a little more in depth about this topic! There are a lot of blowouts and sneaky tricks one can do, that are not that intuitiv on first look.
I was thinking we were going to hear about eureka effects and getting around hexproof and shroud with auras, but I like these.
even as an mtg veteran, there are some interactions here I didn't think about! Excellent video as always Gavin
Didn't learn anything new, but will still leave a comment to help your numbers.
I was expecting the Sun Titan reanimating a Pacifism to enchant an Illusion .....
That example with Cryptic Command is nasty! I’ll have to keep it in mind
Wow when I started I was told that removing one target after decimate resolves counters the spell I’ve even told other people that now
I feel almost all of these are unintuitive loopholes much like combat damage going on the stack.
I've a rulings question.
Many cards, like Reality chip, allow you to "look at the top card of your library at any time". At what times can you not do this action.
Can you do it while resolving spells like Brainstorm? While scrying, revealing or looking at what is the "top card of your library".
A video covering this ability could be fun.
You can do it while half way through a brainstorm.
You can do it while looking at the top card of your library, although you won't get any new information as it's the same card. While scrying, the cards stay on top during the whole process so you can't see beneath them until afterwards if you put them all on bottom.
You can't look beneath a spell that you are casting from the top of your library until you have already chosen the targets/modes, payed for it, and put it on the stack.
Have you considered using Decimate to ilustrate the examples in the video?
It's really strange that you need all the targets to cast, but not all of them to resolve. But at least one.
Messy game design
I've learned today I and everyone I've ever played with have resolved modal spells wrong...
"flying" is highlighted in the skullbomb, instead of "target" lol
The stray target rule was definitely the one that made me go "Oh shit." Great video!
I didn't know cryptic command could fizzle if you get rid of one of its targets. How come that one doesn't behave like a decimate if some sacrifices a creature in response?
A spell is fizzled if *all* of its targets are invalid. So if you choose a combo for Cryptic that only has one target (like bounce + draw), and that one target gets removed, it fizzles. If you pick counter + bounce, it'll have two targets, so the targeted spell will still get countered even if the targeted creature gets hexproof or something.
The key is all the targets being invalid. Choosing "Tap all creatures..." and "Draw a card" has no targets, for example. "Counter target spell" and "Return target creature..." will both add the targeting requirement that could make this a risk.
Got it, that makes sense. Thanks!
I still don't fully get why decimate resolves with a missing target but recover? Doesn't draw you the cards. Is there a trick to telling a difference between the cards?
Really enjoy these rules tricks videos Gavin! I'd love a vehicles one next
A card only fizzles if all targets are no longer legal. Recover only has one target, so if that is no longer legal it doesn't do anything. Decimate has 4 targets, so if one of them is no longer legal, the rest are still destroyed. It only fizzles if all 4 are no longer legal.
I was looking for sneaky ways to get around hexproof/shroud, so I was disappointed. 😅 (I already know the basic board wipe ways. I meant sneaky ways!)
Auras only require targets when casting them. When put into the battlefield in other ways, you choose what they enchant. This means that zur the enchanter or replenish can put an imprisoned in the moon onto a creature equipped with swiftfoot boots or lightning greaves.
Council's judgement can also get around them because voting isn't targeting
Clones also say choose.
Didn't remember about 'when you do', so new thing learned
Also, I've never considered cryptic command to be stoppable that way. Wild!
Glad to teach something new!!
I learned an impressive amount about targeting with my white whale card: Flesh Allergy. I’ve spent a decade trying to break the card and have experienced more than one way the card can fizzle.
Ah yes, single target, and only if that's still valid when the spell starts resolving, somebody might actually lose life. These Bone Splinters effects always have you pay upfront for something that might not actually happen.
The last one with Hypothesizzle is new for me, thanks ♥️
I’m not gonna lie: I’m more confused now than I was seven minutes ago.
I didn't know that removing the target of a cryptic command would fizzle the entire command as a result, I figured because the other modes could still happen the rest resolved
It depends on which modes you choose. If you choose the two targeted modes it will still happen, if you choose the two modes that don't your fine as well, but if only one target (especially the bounce) people can mess you up. When it was played in Standard and Modern you would often see Pro's picking modes that seem less ideal, but make it harder for their opponent to fizzle the spell.
So how does random targeting work when prices increase on certain targets. For example, goblin test pilot when there is a kopala on board making so when goblin test pilot randomly targets a merfolk, it costs 2 more when you can't pay 2 more. Does it get rolled back or?
I'm glad you asked because I've wondered the same thing!
Regarding how Decimate will still resolve if something is sacrificed in response: does this also apply to Heliod's Intervention? I had opponents sacrifice targets in response and I was convinced that then the spell fizzles and all of the other targets would be safe
It does apply. If you target 3 things, and they sacrifice one in response or give it hexproof, the other two still die. It only fizzles if they are all no longer legal targets.
I wasn't aware of the modal spell trick, nice!
Great video! Cool idea to show rule interactions!
I certainly wasn't aware that the "when you do" spells can have targets that aren't declared when the spell is announced but gain them partway through resolution. That's pretty weird.
Technically, you're putting a trigger on the stack (they're called "reflexive triggers"), and that trigger is what's doing the targeting. Players get a chance to respond to the trigger like normal (so you can still do things in response to the reflexive trigger).
Honestly, this is the kind of stuff that makes me enjoy the game less.
Can someone explain why Cryptic Command fizzles after losing a target but Decimate stays?
If CC was cast with one mode that has a target, and one that doesn't, and the targeted mode loses its target, the spell no longer has any targets left, and therefor fizzles. Decimate has 5 targets, and needs to lose all 5 before it fizzles. But if you cast CC with two targeting modes, and only one loses its target, it still resolves, since it still has a target left.
Is one of them targeting D&D players for more revenue?
So, a "when you do" card create a triggered ability?
Sweet! Now, a video on delayed triggers would be great!
You just made me think blue is even harder to counter.
Gavin Verhey of Game Knights fame! #gameknights
I didn't know about Cryptic Command !
Can someone explain to me why decimate WILL resolve in response to removing a target from the spell but cryptic command WILL NOT resolve if you remove one of its targets
Decimate has four targets. It will only fail to resolve if all four targets are illegal when it goes to resolve.
Crypyic Command has somewhere between 0 and 2 targets. If you choose a combination of modes so it only has one target, then if that target is illegal when it goes to resolve, the entire spell does nothing and none of its effects will happen (including the part does not target).
@@Natedogg2 Gotcha! Tnx
Something's not clicking with regards to why I can sacrifice Commander's Sphere in response to Decimate and the spell still resolves, but in the next example, with Cryptic Command, if I doom blade the creature in response, the whole spell fizzles.
I'm not getting the difference there.
Any idea what I might be missing?
The difference is that there is still at least one legal target. As long as there is one legal target, the spell will try to resolve. Hope that helps!
@@GoodMorningMagic thank you! I think I understand.
So if someone was using the "Counter Target Spell" mode of Cryptic Command to counter something and then chose one of my creatures with the "Return Target Permanent" mode. I Doom Blade my creature in response and the counterspell mode still happens because there's still a legal target?
I think you missed a very important targeting trick involving auras. Auras target when they are cast... but not when they enter the battlefield as part of another effect, such as Sun Titan. Which means you can get around shroud and hexproof to enchant a permanent this way.