US Gyms are INSANELY Soft
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- I've been avoiding a session on the Moonboard benchmarks for months at this point, so I decided it was finally time to see how I would measure up against them. There were a lot of ups and downs over the 2 sessions I spent on them, but overall it was great to see how my gym measures up to these standardized climbs. If you guys enjoy the video please consider subscribing and leaving a comment for me, thanks for watching! #rockclimbing #climbing #bouldering #training #utah
00:00 Intro
01:11 V4 Benchmark
01:48 V5 Benchmark
04:38 V6 Benchmark
08:12 V7 Benchmark
08:40 Gym V4
09:05 Gym V5
09:38 Gym V6
10:11 Gym V7
11:05 Outro
what's wrong with that moonboard look soft. v1 in my gym
God damnit I can't escape 😂
Important to remember that the moonboard is only one style of climbing.
Very true. It's great for training but is also very niche
It’s very outdoor accurate which is why it’s widely considered the best/stiffest training board
I climb around v6-7 in my gym and v4-5 on moonboard. US gyms are just soft at lower grades because they want people to see improvement fast and get hooked. It starts to normalize a bit the higher you go.
Makes a lot of sense, I'm excited to see my progression slow down significantly once I hit the V8/V9 range 😂
@@zackpalmerclimbingJust happened to me. Thought I was the king of climbing till the V8-9 level legit became an entirely different sport 😂😂
You're saying that V6-V7 are lower grades?
@@Grynfelt yep
@@Grynfelt Legit v6-7 is still considered intermediate and most gyms make them softer than outdoors and normalized training boards.
I think the moon board is really good at teaching a climber to keep tension through their feet... its quite frustrating, but when your foot keeps popping on a move, it forces your to focus on your foot throughout the move rather than just aiming for the next handhold. I also love the moonboard for building strength.
I agree! The steep incline and mid ass starting foot holds really makes you pay attention to the footwork throughout the climb.
You're absolutely right - good choice to use the Moonboard - I watch a lot of US based climbers and compared to here in the UK the grading is crazy soft. Nice to see that shown in this way.
Hopefully I showcased it alright
think it’s really about whether or not the gym is a big commercial gym or not, when you’re in the US, because gym and moonboard board grades have felt pretty similar in like 8/10 gyms i’ve been to
That's very interesting, I can definitely see that making a difference. Momentum has like 8 or 9 gyms across the country and all the ones I have been too seem softer than the moonboard.
I climbed at almost every gym in London when I visited and the style of climbing was different but the grades weren't much different than what we have around san francisco and softer than a lot of gyms in san diego. (with the exception of hang which was pretty stiff).
overall the setting had a lot bigger moves and seems to be set for taller climbers but a lot climbs involving crimps were way softer than california.
That's interesting to hear! I feel like gyms will just vary no matter where you go. That's one of my favorite things about rock climbing, that you will get a different style of setting no matter where you go in the world.
Doesn’t matter how soft or hard your gym is as long as you are pushing your limits that’s what matters
Very true, thanks for the comment!
great video as always, moon board is so tough, so getting a 5 and 6 for your first time is insane! I used to climb at a momentum gym, and it felt soft but as long as its consistent with its grading then that's all that matters. My favorite board is definitely kilter because I like the big, powerful moves off of relatively good holds and adjustable angles (and soft climbs for the ego boost). Keep up the good content!
Thank you so much! It was definitely very humbling but I was happy with at least one V6 sent. I still love the momentum I go to regardless of how soft it is haha. I agree about the kilter board, if I'm having a bad day I can always try the most repeated 7's and get close to a flash 😂
And also... you mentioned this - for overhangs, your footwork is definitely killing you. There was a moment where you moved out left to that circular hold, you would cross through and flag with a leg to take all the effort out of it - rather than frogging your way up.
Yes, classic terrible foot placement by me it's definitely good to watch my footage back. Thanks for the feedback
@@zackpalmerclimbing As a little extra advice, when you watch your footage back, take a look at how much you readjust your hands on some of those attempts. You definitely have the strength to get away with it, but on longer problems its way less efficient and will sap your energy in no time , specially on these smooth holds.
An interesting exercise to work on precision is to not adjust at all, wherever your hands land, go with it, this will help you be more mindful of where you are placing them and be able to pull way harder on worse holds (as you are essentially making the hold worse by not grabbing them optimally).
Very true! I remember that was one of the first tips I learned when I was getting into climbing and I still do it a ton to this day 🤦 Thanks for the comment!
Man that was such a great video - the quality and climbing was great, I wish you best of luck with your channel and hope the algorithm is kind to you.
Thank you so much this means a lot. I believe the gods of UA-cam will bless me if I keep at it 🙏
Good vids Zach! Keep up the quality uploads and I'm sure the algorithm will favour you soon :)
Thank you! I appreciate the support I believe!
That first gym v4 you showed I was as like “ah y’know maybe those pinches are bad, depending on the top I could see like v3, maybe v4 if it gets harder” and then it just ended with that jug and I did a spit take lmao
The realest shit dude 😂 I think their only justification for it is that the first move has to be dynamic if you're shorter than like 5'8 but still.
nice climbing man, looking forward to more content
Thank you!
Best tip i recieved for system board climbing is to think of pulling with your feet like a claw rather than pushing. Also recommended doing some Romanian deadlifts for feet contact strength.
That makes a lot of sense, I've never been more frustrated with my footwork before... also never thought of RDL's helping that's interesting
Pretty interesting video as I often see videos of boulders in the US and they seem kinda soft from watching but I know that it's impossible to really tell from a video.
The moonboard is definitely sandbagged (for reference I have climbed multiple 7C+/V10 outside but have only done up to 7B+/hard V8 on the moonboard)but at the same time it has a pretty distinct style that you can improve at quite quickly when you first start regularly climbing on it.
From my experience the Kilterboard, even though it's maybe generally a bit soft is actually closer to outdoor boulders at my local crag gradewise than the moonboard benchmarks.
It seems quite rare for gyms in Switzerland(where I live) to use Font or V-grades. I still have yet to visit a bouldering gym that doesn't use it's own grading system.
Very interesting thanks for the comment. I think it is pretty common for people to do less on the mooboard, unless they do a lot of board training specifically.
most underrated climbing UA-camr. ( praying for the day when he can get a V0 at my gym)
You're too kind thank you 😪 Had to throw the shade in there though I see how it is 😂
I almost think it’s because the moonboard puts a lot of emphasis on finger strength, and it’s overhang so you really can’t escape it. Other climbs as they get harder can push a lot of different parts of your muscles, so it can almost make it easier (unless you need to work on that muscle group). But I also climb mainly V4-V5 in a US gym, which although harder than other many other US gyms is still probably easier than many countries.
I agree, I think that's why I struggle so much. Its a very specific style of climbing, I really need to be hopping on inclined walls more
2 tips to instantly improve moonboarding. 1: Brush thy board. 2: Weigh your feet as much as you possibly can, lower graded power board climbs can be techniqued through good tension.
"Brush thy board" I love it haha. I think the feet is my biggest issue I have been pampered by good foot holds and avoiding inclined walls for too long now...
So I find this kinda interesting to see, because I'm pretty consistently a V4 boulderer here in the UK, only climbed my first couple of V5s here in the last month or so.
But I was out in Montreal for work late last year and decided to hit a couple of bouldering gyms while I was there. At one of them I flashed every V4 in the gym, climbed most of the V5s and two of the V6 (this is all before ever climbing my first V5 in the UK remember). Both gyms I went to felt about the same.
So I feel like based on my limited experience in Montreal the gyms there were 1-1.5 V grades softer than the gyms I go to here in Scotland.
That's actually wild I would have never guessed that the grades would be that much softer in Montreal. Scotland is actually the only other country I have climbed in and it was very early in my climbing journey + with rental shoes, but I honestly loved the gym and the grading felt more or less the same as Utah. Thanks for the comment!
Out of the places I've been climbing, UK has hard grades.
For gym climbing only, I would say it goes Japan > UK = South Korea > Portugal > Thailand = France = US = Italy > Canada = Indonesia > Singapore
the fact that you climb at Momentum is worthy of my subscription. My local gym is a momentum, so that makes me happy :D
Hell yes! Momentum solidarity, I appreciate the sub!
Don't worry man, my local gym in Italy is mostly inclined walls and roofs, is known for IDGAF stiff grading and I still struggle on the board. My consistent gym and occasional outside V5 becomes a sad V4 on the good days on the right problem. Harsh as it is, it still helps a lot with footwork, core/body tension, contact strenght and finger strenght. Also mental fortitude and perseverance in taking the painful fails
You're exactly right. It is really good for improving on those if you aren't good at them. Also IDGAF grading is awesome 😂
Ma non mettono i colori da voi?
@@lucaa4480 sì ma se i verdi sono 6a-6b+, poi lo provi ed è un 6c+ duro...
@@stefanovitali2925 ah ok boh io scalo in piemonte/lombardia e ci sono solo i colori, ma al massimo arrivano al nero che nelle palestre più dure sarà tipo 7b/c/8a sui neri , non vanno oltre
Yeah man in I've climbed some 7c indoor in Berlin, outdoor 7b, but on the Moonboard could barely manage a 6c+. Moonboard is also just pure 40 degrees and hard af. I've heard that some people can do higher benchmarks but find some of the lower ones harder on a Moonboard. Nice vid though, enjoy your journey!
Solid sends getting 7b outside! I couldn't believe how hard it was but I'll definitely be training more on it. Thanks for the comment!
Board climbing is a quite specific style of climbing, not some universal grading system. It doesn't always translate perfectly to other climbs indoor or out. I also tend to disagree with this very common saying that "gyms are soft" when it comes to the higher grades. You constantly see online "oh now way that is V10 looks like V6 in my gym" which to me is likely always wrong. I have climbed in gyms all around the country and tend to cap out at around V8-9, which is the same as my Kilter board benchmark range, and slightly above my moonboard benchmarks and tension board 2 benchmarks. Yet I can reasonably consistently climb V10 outside in a variety of styles and within a few sessions. Ultimately the point im trying to get across is that people get very practiced in a certain style (for my that would be outdoor climbs on granite/gneiss, for others that is indoor climbing). Then people assume that since it felt easy to them that it is "soft". I wouldn't beat yourself up over not climbing what you expected on the moonboard, you have to look at it in context. You may be skilled at other things instead!
Thank you for the detailed comment! I agree with you that you can't really just say something is soft because it looks easy to you, especially if you have never actually tried a single move on the climb. People just like to clown people that throw videos up haha. At the end of the day this session just helps me realize I want to be good at a ton of different styles of climbing so that everything can feel soft 😎 Also shout out you for hitting V10's outside that shit's insane..
@@zackpalmerclimbing Agreed on people just wanting to clown on others haha. Sometimes a session illuminating your weaknesses can be very beneficial! I had a similar experience to you about a year ago with board climbing. Now it is something I integrate regularly into my sessions, and I have seen a lot of growth in areas from it. The goal certainly is for everything to feel soft!! Thanks!
Speaking 100% facts
Hell ya that's super inspiring, keep it up!
So you climb harder on moonboard than on kilter? 😅
Keep in mind the Moonboard grades are sandbagged, so while gym grades may be soft, Moonboard grades are stiff
Always helps my pride hearing somebody say this, thank you 😂
The Moonboard is known to be sandbagged, I reckon often by a couple of font grades, so 6b+ on the MB feels more like 6c+, 6c feels like 7a etc.
Thank you for your solidarity 😤
10:31 looks like you might have been able to get a cheeky hand jam in that hold
Damnit I should've thought of that...
Jesus that spray wall in the background looks absolutely nuts. It's like two already generous ones side by side.
It is a beautiful wall, I have been avoiding it for so long 😂 I'll definitely put a video out on it at some point.
one major issue with the moon board is even though it is standardized the size of the holds can vary a lot from board to board based on how the holds were sanded in the factory. So some moon boards are easier/harder than others
Good point, I have never tried any other variations of the moonboard but I'm excited to see how other ones stack up!
nice work dude. on the 2016 set I did all the v4 and v5 benchmarks and I swear there were some v5 benchmarks that were significantly harder for me than some of the v8 benchmarks
Thank you! That's insane haha I'm excited to get more experience on the rollercoaster that is moonboard benchmarks 😂
My moonboard climbing is actually fairly consistant with my outdoor climbing. On Moonboard the hardest I've climbed was 7a/V6 (this year) and outdoors it was 7a+/V7 (last year). Though it's overhang there is some variety with pinches, jugs, crimps and small crimps, shoulder/dyno/static moves. Only critique point is that moonboards aren't very high.
Interesting consistency, the moon board seems like it has a different effect on everyone
I have tried the kilter at 45 and tension 2 at 40, pb V8. Would love to give a go to the moon board, 40 degrees, bad holds and sandbagged grades it's all I live for.
You are a better man than I haha the bad holds and sandbagged grades beat me down 😂
Kilter crazy soft
Agreed, still love it though
I never tried the tension board, is it soft?
Be careful to not crimp every hole on the moon board, I injured myself doing that. Get used to grabbing them half crimp or in extension, that will force you to use more technique and take care of your fingers.
Thank you for the recommendation it's such a bad habit that I have haha
You’re right, but it’s the same for most gyms around the world.
The reason is they label the easiest problem in the gym, which is basically a ladder, a v0 but it isn’t one. The next few grades are labeled v1 and so on to avoid confusion but everything is out of whack from the start. Minus about 2 or 3 grades and it should be right.
So true, V0-3 outside is a completely different world compared to the jug runs in a commercial gym
You should try momentum millcreek. I have heard it is on the harder side compared to Lehi.
Most definitely I gotta get a session in up there, excited for another humbling experience 😎
I hate inclined walls!! I also avoid them like the plague. Nice video!
Thank you!
I personally loved the dab counter 👌
Thank you haha that was my favorite as well. I thought it would only go to like 3 until I watched the footage back 😂
great video, my gym sets harder grades than moonboard so im jealous of your grading system🤣A V9 on moonboard feels easier that the V8s in my gym
Thank you! So crazy how different grading is across gyms haha, shout out you for being able to get V9 on the moonboard though!
A bit weird given that my friends couldn't even do a v2 at my gym; a v2 softly similar to that v4. Honestly not all climbing is raw strength, and often my hands get way torn up quicker on moonboard than a funky V8 that requires strength in very specific areas.
Very true, there are so many different styles of climbing
in my gym i can do v9 and have been projecting v10 and i was pretty confident in my ability for how little ive been climbing, but then i tried some moonboard climbs and on the 2016 i could barely do v7
Damnnn that's actually nuts haha. That's awesome that you can get V9 outside though screw the moonboard 😂
i’ve climbed up to v7 indoors and tried moonboard for the first time recently. Was only able to send a v4 benchmark 😭
It's so humbling 🥲 definitely give it another try though, you get used to the style relatively quickly
Fellow Lehi momentum climber here, this gym is absurdly soft. For proof, look at the blue v3 on the back slab wall. That is a v1 if sandbagged.
(I'm a v3-4 climber for reference)
it kinda sucks, because every time I send a new grade I have to wonder if it is just misgraded, and I end up writing off major improvement as "just a fluke"
Hell ya I love having viewers from the local momentum! It's so true, definitely no fun feeling your confidence fluctuate all the time not knowing if you genuinely sent a harder grade 🤦
I think the Kilter board is fairly true to outdoor grades (i.e. hard) at 50 degrees.
Interesting observation. I have felt like kilter is pretty soft but haven't tried it at more than 40
Kind've depends where you go. I got to two gyms and one of them a V5 is really V3 maybe V4 at most, but the other gym a V5 is like a v9 at the other gym and there scale only goes up to like 7 or 8. I wouldn't know because a V3 is a project grade there for me but the easy gym I can do V5 depending on the style. I will say grades tend to be soft at most gyms in the V1 to V4 range
Definitely true, every setting style is different depending on where you go
Sorry to spam, I think you're a natural at this filmed climbing malarkey - nice one!
Thank you I'm glad you enjoy the content! Don't apologize haha comments are my favorite part of making videos.
The same goes for a lot of european gyms aswell, benchmarks are usually 1-2 gardes harder than gym grades
That's good to hear haha
Just sent my second v7 outside and at this moment my American New York gym v7s are harder. They have been changing grades slowly to better mimic outdoor grades and I feel like I’m stuck in v7s now lol but I can see improvements when I’m out so I’m ok with it all
That's very interesting! Crazy how much it varies from gym to gym, good luck with your progression though that's solid.
I've noticed when you climb in different gyms the setters will have different flows and movement in mind and that can drastically change how you feel on the boulder. For example the v5 in the video looked pretty square on and didn't massively challenge you on body position but the holds looked about as shitty as v5s that exist outside of your gym. Moonboard will challenge you very specifically on strength which you don't need heaps of to climb up to and around v7, it's actually very common to feel sandbagged if you don't board climb bc your regular climbing will allow you to compensate strength in other ways but moonboard definitely will not.
Very well put. I feel like every move on the moonboard is absolute limit whereas with other climbs around the gym you can work on body positioning to make moves as easy as possible
Board climbing, especially the moonboard, is a nuanced technique in and of itself.
nuanced sure, but easily the most transferable to outdoor climbing in comparison to gym
I agree I was not prepared for how different it was gonna be
I'm excited to see how training on the moonboard will affect my outdoor boulders
worth noting that you'll see huge improvement once you start raining on the steeper walls, especially if you can already climb harder on less power reliant walls
Very true, thanks for the comment!
U think kilter its more soft in grading compared to the moonboard?
I definitely do, but like I said I haven't tried a ton of climbs past 30 degrees on kilter which I'm sure is a big factor. Also I love crimps so kilter climbs always feels solid.
Yeah personally the kilter is a lot softer than the moonboard, but it also depends on the holdset of the moonboard in your gym (some are *easier* than others).
That makes sense, I forget that there are a bunch of different variations of the moonboard
Kilter is waaaay softer - for example i did like 6x8a in one session on kilter and like 3x8as in my entire life on moonboard (and i climbed on moon more)
Real, kilter will always make you feel like a pro climber compared to the moonboard. Also you're a monster for getting 3 8a's on the moonboard keep it up!
In the US it depends where you are. The gym he normally climbs at does look soft, but I still go to a gym where sandbagging is the problem 🤷🏼♀️ I've climbed in different parts if the country and in France and found my gym to be one of the hardest I've gone to. I can go to nyc gyms out of shape and flash everything up to a v6. At some level between that and v9 there's a usually a huge jump in difficulty. Just depends where you are. I've also climbed for 12 years and climbing gyms changed in the US in that time, and part of that change of them on average getting softer.
Very true, I will need to try tons of different gyms around the world to get the full consensus. Awesome that your local gym is the hardest one you've found haha, must making everything else feel super easy!
I climb every bit as hard on the moonboard as I do on set boulders and on rock. I am weak but well rounded topping out at v8 on all 3
Well rounded is the way, keep it up!
Also on moonboard the benchmark are given quite randomly... there are 7a harder than some 7c... and 7a extremly softer than some 6c 🤷🏼♂️ for a correct reference you should not try the most and least repeted ones
That's what I've noticed, some 4's are harder than 6's haha
UK is the same. Also keep in mind it not the same kind of climbing. I too avoided overhangs and roofs and struggle to keep tension compared to vertical or slabs. It’s just hard for beginners
Very true. I immediately go to "it's harder" because my body isn't used to it and I struggle with the correct technique
It’s a different style of climbing man. It also depends on the year of the set too. Furthermore, it’s more finger and power focused. Gyms in NYC are super bagged. I climb harder grades in the Gunks compared to what I can climb outside. It also depends on the setting culture. In short, so many things.
Very true. Interesting to hear that NY gyms are that hard
Moon board it is only about crimpy overhang climbing. It mostly benchmarked your finger and core strength.
It's definitely a very specific style of climbing, great for training tho
Moonboard isn't even that crimpy especially compared to outside. Though I am a UK climber in a very outdoor style gym, plus I climb a lot on a 'woody' a board covered in wooden crimps. Compared to the average gym, the moonboard may be fairly crimpy.
The thing that honestly killed me wasn't the few crimps it was the shitty pinches 😪
Might be a hot take but as long as grading in the gym is similar to that for outside grading in the area I have no problem with grades being soft or hard
I think you're correct about this. It's nice to have consistency across indoor, outdoor and board climbing, but at the end of the day if grades are consistent it is still enjoyable and you will be able to see consistent improvement.
I think it could be interesting to go have a try at the original problems that John Sherman was doing when he came up with the V system. They are the real benchmark. The Moonboard could be way off.
That would be so sick fr
that black v5 looks super easy
It was indeed, at least 2 grades softer than the moonboard v5 I sent...
I wouldn't think too much about moon board grading, especially on the wooden holds. Just climbing on the moon board is enough to maintain progress.
Thanks for the comment. It can definitely be a bit discouraging the first time trying but as long as there is improvement and I'm having a swell time its all good 👍
Gyms are climbing and outside is ROCK climbing. V grade was invented from rock and from my experience climbing 4 star classics in world class climbing destinations will tell you what grades mean by region. (Depending on beta and style of course)
Thanks for the comment!
This video is very cute, haha! This is the 2019 set, BTW. I think it has a larger amount of accessible problems around v5-v8 range and nicer on your skin wooden holds. It is representatively difficult. The one thing I am seeing in your climbing of these steeper problems is disengaging your scapular retraction (letting your shoulder sag up) a lot. This is a mix of hand/finger strength and stability through the movement. Also, I would say you should aim to do say 15~ of a certain "Grade" problems on the MB to be able to say you're an "X" grade MB climber :)
US Gyms often put very juggy holds in the middle of climbs, and this builds bad habits for climbers, imo.
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback, there are definitely a lot of things I need to improve on with my technique!
What kind of mad man set two pinks and a purple all on top of each other?!
The Lehi route setters love watching people suffer...
Even Ben Moon says that the moonboard is sandbagged, so maybe the gyms might be soft but still the moonboard grades are insane and hard to compare
Shout out Ben Moon for making me feel better about myself 😂
I'm pretty sure most people not from the US knows the US grades are soft yet people defend it like it's life and death
I will not have my nation slandered... jp I think generally speaking US gyms tend to be on the soft side fs
Moonboard grades are insanely hard!
Thank you for your solidarity 😤
Ive climbed gyms all over the world and done my share of board climbing. I can tell you there's always an adjustment period when switching between gyms. You can get trained on the incline and holds and the grades start to feel softer.
That said, this set at Lehi is a bit soft except that damn black V8 slab. The Millcreek boulders are a bit more inline with outdoor grades I've been told.
Thank you for the comment, that makes a lot of sense. I have faith I'll be able to send more on the moonboard with more training. That black slab is absolutely ridiculous screw that climb 😂 and that's good to hear I will be hitting up Millcreek next week.
Im a stickler to correct moonboarding so i will mention couple things, using the side(arete?) of the board to smear or any sort of pressure is considered a dab. Also, each start should be a sit start. There may be gyms where the kick board is extra high which makes it impossible or way too hard but the kick board at your gym looks like the correct height. Also 6C V5 is different from 6C+ V5. It should be considered a grade of its own but you can simplify 6C as a softer V5 or V5- haha. Regardless I’m glad you climbed on mb!! It’s my favorite way to train. Followed to see your journey!!
Thank you for keeping me in check I love these types of comments 😂 I had that thought in my head about smearing on the side but I was like fuck it this board is so hard idc haha, but I'll avoid that in the future. Not sure if I understand what you're saying about I thought I was doing a sit start but maybe not 🤔. Thanks for the follow!
@@zackpalmerclimbing Oo if you say you did sit start I believe you! Some of the vid editing might have cut it out. I think for your v6 send it was 100% legit. You’re strong so keep it up!!
Thank you I appreciate you giving me that one haha. Thanks for the comments!
Great case in point as to why grades are subjective. Find the climbs that inspire you, train the moves that you enjoy and work on weaknesses if you feel like getting better. That's it, honestly. Who cares about some random number slapped onto a climb... the holds are the same holds, the moves are the same moves regardless of what other people call it. It's essentially like chasing social currency to validate the effort you put into the climb, rather than appreciating the climb itself.
Well said homie, the longer I climb the more I realize the grade chasing ego boost isn't worth it. Finding fun ass climbs regardless of grading and trying to improve a little everyday is the way
Im in the us and we have a board as well, our low grades are soft compared to the board (0-4), but after that the grades are similar and sometimes harder. so I believe that US gyms are not soft but this is just a poorly gauged gym
Thanks for the comment, interesting take
My fingers hurt with him full crimping EVERY hold
I promise I'm trying to change 🥲
Dude, love the videos.
Grades are fun, because grades are kind of stupid.
I climb for a long time and I think board climbing is really cool. Kilter is the most fun, but doesn't do so much to get good skin or finger strength. And I think it is the most fun, because the grades are soft. For me the moon board is so much harder. But I am also tall and heavy. I believe that's not so beneficial for moon boarding.
And comparing gym grades and board grades only makes sense to a certain degree. It's nearly two different categories. Like you would compare freestyle skiing with slalom or something.
Anyway, just enjoy it and don't care to much about the grades. And honestly, I can do harder Boulders outdoors than on the moon board benchmarks, so maybe the moonboard is not "the real" grade. Truth is somewhere in the middle.
Keep up the good work and don't do to much board climbing. I believe 60 to 90 minutes on a board are already a real good workout. Longer and the quality of my sessions suffer...
Thank you for the detailed comment! It has definitely put in perspective how grading works hopping on the moonboard, and I think the biggest benefit has just been to help me avoid grade chasing. Climbing is supposed to make me happy and be enjoyable, while still being able to improve and hit small goals here and there. I think the boards are a great tool for training and getting stronger overall, but you are correct it is not a one to one comparison with how much variation boulders have both inside and outside.
moonboard grades are all over the place alot of them are very sandbagged. I would compare outside grades to the moonboard since theyre usually more accurately graded then gyms
although there are definelty good benchmarks i just know that i have alot of V4 benchmarks that feel impossible while i have alot of V6 benchmarks done
Yes I will definitely do a video soon comparing outside grades to my gym, I think that would be pretty interesting to see
That's what I noticed about the V4 and V5 benchmarks some of them were absolutely insane 😂
Honestly I’m so lucky I live by a gym in the US that actually grades hard. When I climb on their moon board I can climb the same grades as they set. I guess that’s the benefit of going to an older gym.
That's honestly so sick! It is a little discouraging realizing your gym is on the soft side, but I'm excited to see what other gyms have to offer.
Tangent warning!
Alright your video title sucked me in, and I just need to point out some things. So first, grades in general are all over the place, it doesn’t matter where you go, every outdoor area and gym and board is going to feel different, sometimes vastly so. I’m not hundred percent certain all the boards are this way, but I know for a fact that the hold pours for the moonboard are inconsistent as well, this means the same hold on a different board can feel better or worse. Benchmarks on the Moonboard are also generally considered stout difficulty wise comparing them to anything else is kind of a wild thing to do. Saying US gyms specifically is also an odd comparison as a lot of those stout benchmarks are from people here as well. Also to touch on the topic of gym vs outdoor grading, yes generally boulder grades in gyms trend towards easy until you start to hit V6/7 or 7a/7a+ this because outdoor grading can be utterly nonsensical sometimes. For instance you’ll often find V2’s in an outdoor area that feel the same as the V6’s in that same area. There’s almost no consistency in those grade ranges.
Tangent over! Nice video.
Thank you for the comment, sorry for the clickbait 😂 I think you are correct in the points you make, it's a pretty fat generalization saying US gyms are soft. From what I've seen especially from the benchmarks that is how I was feeling after this video, but that is definitely an oversimplification. Glad you enjoyed the video!
my moonboared grade is a grade lower than my gym grade (across 3 gyms) gym climbs are just really different. Moonboard 6b gym 6C. also importand; never look at toplogger, people vote way too high of grades
Seems pretty fair, very powerful climbs and a very specific climbing style. Thanks for the tip as well I gotta keep that in mind
definitely pretty sad how much traffic commercial gyms get for being soft. the gym in my town (being the only one in a really small town in europe) is sometimes honestly harder than some 2016 moonboard benchmarks... probably pretty accurate even compared to outdoors...
Super interesting. I honestly love how every gym across the world is different. It keeps you on your toes and makes sure to humble you from time to time!
I'd say for my gym its more of a difference in style than difficulty. My gym is more compy and moon-board and tension board are more traditional climbing. I'd say the difference in difficulty isn't that big if you account for the stylistic difference.
Fair enough, it was super frustrating falling on some of those moves because my body isn't used to needing that much power throughout an entire climb
@@zackpalmerclimbing Yeah, my gym is very much a comp gym and I gained so much strength when I started practising on the tension board. Traditional climbing definitely has a higher required strength to weight ratio.
i climb pretty much only on moonboard and spray and i can climb better on the board than most commercial gyms
You have officially achieved enlightenment my friend
I know exactly what gym you're in because I visited SLC on a roadtrip last year, and out of every gym I've been to Momentum Lehi might have been the softest
So sad to hear... thanks for the comment haha
@@zackpalmerclimbing Definitely not a knock on the gym itself though, the setting and training stuff there was fantastic, but I was just climbing grades I didn't hit at my home gym for another 8 months
I understand what you're getting at by comparing the Moonboard to a gym but I don't think it is the best way to compare. Moonboard is almost all power whereas climbs in a gym might be rated a certain difficulty because of very intricate techniques or body positions. While the Moonboard still requires good technique and body positioning, I think they don't relate enough to be able to compare. I do agree that compared to gyms in other continents US is rated easier, I don't know if you can test your gym's difficulty based solely on the Moonboard. I promise I'm not trying to hate because I actually loved this video I just wanted to throw this out there and see what everyone thinks.
Thank you for the comment! I don't see this as hate at all haha. I just throw a video up based on how I feel and I love reading comments whether people agree or disagree. I think you're right, you can't just say moonboard is the be all end all, but it was very interesting how hard it shut me down when I can send 7's pretty easily across the rest of the gym.
My home gym doesn't have traditional grades and uses colors instead. My only source of comparison when it comes to grades is from my trip to fontainebleau last year. Because of this, almost every climb in american gyms look soft to me lmao
Damnnn I'm insanely jealous you got to hit some climbs out there, life goal fs. I've never been to a gym that does color coding but I feel like being the grade chaser I am I would get pretty frustrated haha
My understanding is most gyms are soft until they get up into the v8 grades and above. Then they seem to be consistent with outdoor grades. Not sure why that is. Some folks even say once you hit v8 and above at a number of gyms it translates to harder grades outside. I never climb outside so I'm not too sure.
Because progressing through grades provides newer climbers with dopamine so they get hooked to the sport. Climbing gyms are places of business so it's in their best interest to grade boulders in a way that's motivating for new clients yet not too ludicrous that it devalues intermediate/advanced climbers achievements there
In my experience, once I get around the V4 plus range it feels more similar to outdoors, as a general observation. Some gyms are very stiff and grade much more consistently to outside. I find it's usually VB to V3 that are softer, in general. I've been shut down on those grades before outside, and they hardly ever (pretty much never) happens indoors. I pretty much flash everything in a session in a pretty chill manner around that level.
@@1Joren Thanks for the answer. That makes sense.
I have heard this as well, I'm excited to be good enough to do v8 and v9 so I can put this to the test
Well said, I personally loved the ego boost of getting to V5 in a couple months of climbing when I was starting out 😂
My gym is very similar too, it's most prevalent in chain gyms because they are told to set softer to attract the much more recreational crowd and there isn't anything wrong with that. From my experience it does get way way steeper at the top of the range though. Also BRO STOP FULL CRIMPING EVERYTHING 🤣
That is exactly right. It would be hard for beginners to come in and not be able to hit one's and two's if they were as hard as they are outside and on boards. And yes the full crimping is such a terrible habit I have to break that shit 😂
love your vids, buttttttttttt the moonboard like v 3 in my gym icl
Always the same shit 😤😂
I feel like commercial gyms have softer grades and more locally owned gyms are definitely more accurate but it is what it is
I would say that is probably true across most of the country, but weirdly enough the local climbing gym right by where I live is probably a half grade softer on average than Momentum is 🤔
You shouldn't compare regular setting grades with MoonBoard grades.
Damn my bad
my gym is graded harder than other uk gyms every time I go to another gym im like damn Im a v5 climber and then get smacked by a v3 when I get back lmao
Always gotta get humbled 😂
Dang I'm sad now because that's my gym
My bad forget you ever saw this video...
I personally think gym shouldn't grade problems if they are just going to lowball all the climbs. Much better to use levels or colour tags instead i that case. Some gym owners told me their customers prefer gyms with soft grading, I find this hard to believe.
Interesting to hear! I've always felt like I would hate having the color grading but I get what your saying especially with the beginner grades being so soft. I think the customers just love that ego boost of quick progression
@zackpalmerclimbing I prefer the actual grades as well, but calling something a V7 that is more like a V4/5 is the same as working with a different system imo.
I absolutely hate those V2 in my gym comments. Honestly, nobody cares about the gym of the guy in the comment section. If that guy want to show off, he's free to start a youtube channel.
I agree haha people just like to hate sometimes it's all good though
Board climbing is it's own discipline, of course you suck at it the first time you do it. I started 2-3 grades lower on the board, but now all my hardest boulders are on a board.
That's good to hear I'm excited to see some progress in the next few months
@@zackpalmerclimbing I also went to another gym that had a kilter and a moon board, did v7 on the kilter and barely eeked out V4 on moon. I'm not sure moon is true grades, it's sandbagged like fuck. real grades are probably somewhere in between.
nahh moonboard isnt true as well. its in between somewhere. i did a handful 7a's outside. moonboard 7a would be impossible
Haha it's super different for everyone. 7a outside is sick tho that's nuts!
@@zackpalmerclimbing thanks :) my goal is 8a in font :)
Get that shit I believe 💪
@@zackpalmerclimbing thanks man :) i am training every day
The us is just so big.
True
ZP Climbs misses the point. US gyms are soft because the gym is a business and it's better for business when the customers feel good about themselves while there. Soft grades inflate ego and the customer is happy.
You are correct sir. They gotta let the beginners have their wins early so they keep coming back.
“Inclined walls” = slab. Overhang is the correct term. I hate myself for being like this but I cringe at hearing people say inclined walls.
How could I have been so foolish 😔 thank you for pointing this out haha I have been saying it wrong for a year and a half now 😂
@@zackpalmerclimbing well if you put an inclined plane against a vertical wall fat end up it would be an overhang so you could argue that.
gg the moonboard 2019 set is (subjectively) soft ... try the 2016 set for more ego takedown. JK. Honestly, the climbs in your gym looked fine for grade ... ? I do think it's just different styles of climbing demanding for different strengths and skillsets.
Haha thank your for saying that. It is a very different style of climbing compared to the moonboard, I just need to get good at all styles so that everything feels somewhat similar.
Brother D12 is a pinch you’re gonna full crimp you’re way into a torn pulley
IkIk haha I'm trying to break the habit I swear 😂 I'm very lucky I haven't experienced an injury yet
as a routesetter i always cringe at idea of giving actuall grades to boulders at the gym. This grades arent well thought out and obviously will be soft as fuck. You cant even grade it properly after whole day of setting
Thanks for the comment, it's great to hear from someone who actually is skilled in the craft. I can't imagine how hard it would be to route set but I would love to try to get good at it some day!
@@zackpalmerclimbing yeah give it a go for sure. It's super fun !
moonboard is insanely sandbagged tho so you're comparing two things which are completely out of whack with reality (outdoor grades)
Preach
Then looks everybody so strong 🤣 and they climb very well grade wise… techniques not really but lot of power and injuries
Lots of power and interesting technique for sure