Chevy LS / Small Block Mopar Hybrid - Is It Viable? The Pros And Cons Of This Unlikely Combo.
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- It seems like the latest thing is the adaption of pedestal mount Chevy LS rocker arms to the normally shaft rocker LA Chrysler.
On the surface there looks to be a rocker ratio advantage to the swap, but if you dig a little deeper there are many issues that make this conversion questionable at best.
Here's a rundown of each component and factors involved and how they relate and integrate into the overall package.
Is it worthwhile? You decide.
#engine #classiccar #mopar #musclecar
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Uncle Tony, check out Vice Grip Garage he is currently building a 318 with LS heads and valvetrain. He is in your neck of the woods in Tennessee. Check out Derek I think you to would get along.
Came here to say this and to check out Paragon engines
paragon engines already put Ls heads on a 318 i dont even want to think of what that thing is gonna build for power if they put turbos on it
Yes! Paragon is a engine building genius. Videos are good and that motor is bad
If you're talking about the LS318, it's not actually LS heads.
I don’t know where this idea came from, but VGG is doing this on a giveaway Duster right now, that’s probably why all the news about it lately. Pshhh
He should have just tagged both VGG and Paragon 😂
Check with Derek at Vicegrip Garage. He's dropped one in a Duster.
Derrick from Vice Grip just did 1 of these hybrid 318 in a Duster he's working on now for a give away. Put in a mild cam & sounds nice.
Came here to say this
@@timbanks2861 ya a relevant engine build that subject was about. I see no problem, & why you're chuffed about it have no clue.
@@jerrysingleton4956 I was agreeing with you
Vice Grip Garage is building some LS/Mopar Small Block combo in a Duster I think
Hey Uncle tony, great video! I'd never heard of this for a LA engine but over in AMC land we figured out that the LS rockers are a DIRECT REPLACEMENT for the AMC bridged/ pedestal mount rockers used on post '72 V8s and 6s. The valve spacing is the same between the 2 engines, the mounting hardware is near identical 5/16 bolts, the geometry is almost perfect and if you use taller chevy valves it is PERFECT, the LS rockers are lighter and 1.7 ratio. The way you do the swap is to cut the single cast LS pedestal mount into four pieces, one for each cylinder. The AMC forum has a few great threads about the swap. Since the Magnum rockers are very similar, some say identical, could it be that people are swapping out the Magnum bridged rockers for the LS units? That would make way more sense.
There where people swapping SBC valves into 343s in the late 60s. Main reason is the valves were lighter. Not much but weight in a reciprocating mass counts.
I don't believe that does work on the I6 actually. The spacing is the same, but the valve angle and such is different. I have an AMC I6 mocked up with BBC roller rockers and guide plates for an LS, that's all looking good.
in other words all LS powered cars have a little Gremlin/Hornet DNA inside of them. I knew it !
The magnum literally uses the amc system
Paragon built a 318 with LS heads, you should go to VVG he’s putting in in a Duster now. Paragon did a three video series on building it. Really pretty interesting,used junk Viper parts, seems to move a lot of air,go check it out!
Thanks for the mention! I would like to say it's worth a watch!
VGG Vice Grip Garage. Terrific channel! Just helping people find it.
The heads are not LS heads they are speed master aluminum LA mopar heads that where purchased blank, Paragon machined off the shaft mounts flat and made a particularly sexy adapter plate to suit the LS trunions complete with little oil pockets to keep the needle bearings lubed.The heads were also machined to fit SBC valves 2.02/1.62..I believe the heads were also cnc ported to give over 300cfm at 600 lift...not a bad bit of suck right there.
😂😂 why do you think Tony made this video?! In response to the hundreds of comments he gets about "have you seen vgg do this?" 😂😂😂
Well said. Paragon did great videos
UT, I think you're doing wrong. You're suppose to swap the entire LS engine for the Mopar, not just the rockers...I'll show myself out. 😂
Damn, I spit my coffee out!! That was funny as hell!
😂😂😂
Seems like a solution in search of a problem.
I assume your talking about VGG and the motor he put in the giveaway duster. If so, come on people don't take it too seriously. Just have some fun with it.
Tony didn't mention about putting Chevy ls on a Mopar just rockers on Mopar heads
A little louder for the ones in the back
The engine I saw this combination assembled on used aftermarket heads that were able to flow more air than the stock Mopar heads. They also had more room to machine clearance for the push rods.
The rockers also used inferior pedestal mounts in place of the superior shaft mounts. Meh.
Various engine manufacturers have been cross-pollinating ideas and components for decades. I've been a Ford enthusiast ever since I knew what a car was. I'm 70 now. The LS series Chevrolet and Ford Windsor Small-block similarities are often the topic of debate. Same for the Big Mopar and F.E. Ford, etc. Tony, you have stated, "Ford has done some crazy things over the years." I agree. They certainly are not known for having long-term attention spans in the engineering department. Great ideas have come out of Ford but the follow-through, refinement (development) of certain ideas and platforms are either cut short or diminished. However, Ford V-8 engines of the 1960s and later feature equi-spaced (symmetric) intake and exhaust runners and other features that other manufacturers have since copied. And Ford has done its share of copying also. Your video here deals with valvetrain, rocker arms and stability. I've had experience building V-8 engines from Windsor and Cleveland Fords, Small-block Chevrolets, Small and Big-block Mopars (including 426 Hemis) and Big-block Fords including Boss 429s. The Boss engines feature individual shaft rocker arms, the shaft and rocker being retained by two bolts and the assembly mounted on a pedestal. Virtually no instability or deflection here. Ford began using this system in late 1968. It has been adapted as the system of choice for many domestic race engines and as an upgrade for street engines of various manufacturers. Thank you, Tony. Always informative and entertaining content.
The one Ford engine th as t should have been introduced in the States was the Barra from Ford Australia.
I really don't see the benefit of it. As you show here, it seems to me that it would be prone to spitting push rods & the work involved in doing this is not something most people would want to take on. Especially now that aftermarket heads have come onto the affordable side of the market that will get you pretty close to same seat of the pants pony's. Machine shop labor isn't cheap, and this isn't your run of the mill valve job.
I once installed a chevy alternator on a ford.
That's a sin. Put it on a Toyota... or a MGB.
@@techtips1064 Later on, we installed a Ford engine in a Chevy. Those were simple times.
I put a 318 in my Ford and the Ford duraspark worked good with the stock 318 distributer.
@@MrGlenferd Yep! I replaced the duraspark module on my ford with an hei module.
Tony ,
Your videos as of late have been a lot of thoughts , ideas & prophecies (talking) . Will you be getting back to “doing” anytime soon ?
Eh I like it. He's like the super nice gear head neighbor that you enjoy listening stories from every now and then.
Ya where's the PROPANE experiment?!?!
I'm not an engine builder. But I always thought the shaft mounted rockers were the best part of the small block Mopar. I don't see why anyone would want to get rid of it. But like I said, I'm not an engine builder
I agree totally, but I think it's for those who want to get the max performance they can possibly squeeze out of a small block Mopar. And the thing is, there are much easier ways to do that such as aftermarket heads and valvetrain.
The guy over at Paragon Engines is an engine builder. You should check out his videos
I thing people are not seeing the big picture, by adapting small block Chevy, and LS, valve train components on an old Mopar, is that it opens up an entirely different, and HUGE, list of aftermarket options which is especially advantageous for the budget builders. The GM engine aftermarket is near endless in options and price point, and a modification like this this would allow them, to run parts that are either the same quality, but cost less, OR, for equal money you can afford to get higher quality components, either way I don't see a down side to this type of mod.
Also let's not forget the parts availability, the GM stuff is available seeming everywhere and usually on the shelf ready to go, but with Chrysler it's a significant gamble whether even a factory replacement quality part is on the shelf, let alone speed parts.
To me those 2 things are a plenty enough reason to give this a shot IMHO.
Oh just get you and vice grip on here and argue about it, hahaha! I watched his videos about it and still not really sure, you gave a little more info but I'm still scratching my head. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic and just find this really interesting, long way of saying I'm a dumbass hahaha!
Paragon engines put out three really in depth videos about building the motor. Really smart guy
At a glance it seems the Mopar factory set up would be more ridgid... which would be an important factor for me personally
I iove the factory shaft type rocker arms. I like to keep everything simple, less problems and less money !
I don't want chevy style ANYTHING on my Mopar!! You can't improve on perfection.
Some GM parts may make sense, but not the rockers. I put Chevy 2.02 valves in my 360 build many moons ago, because it was an economical way to increase flow over the Mopar valves available at the time when you were using stock cast iron heads. Combined with my amateur porting, worth probably an additional 30 HP on my old-school 9.5:1 built on a 1974 cop engine. I just used a set of roller tip 1.6 shaft-mount rocker arms and a Purple Shaft. Couldn't afford to have it dynoed, but based on my 1/4 times, I was getting +/- 320 HP at the tires, which wasn't bad in 1988. Wish I still had it...😕
So one guy comes up with an idea to try something that works mabe and the key board comandos go nuts about it
Couldn’t agree more
Spot on
The other disadvantage is flex in the plate that the rockers are mounted to. Looking at the LS rocker if it was me I'd knock out the shaft out the rocker is riding on machine rocker rail that fits this size and use them that way.
This is James E. Halleran, the rockers remind me of Dulcich's chompers except they don't glow in a blinding luminescent pearly white.
Thank you, thank you.@@jbphilly1234
Derek from vice grip garage did this on his engine set up in his duster build, he used aluminum head and ls rocker and Chevy pushrods which apparently allow a lot more oil to get to the valve train.
Haven't watched VGG in a couple of months. He ignores interesting vehicles like model t and the 100 year old fire truck and focusses on boring GM vehicles that have been done and done and done. I've read hundreds of magazine articles and seen dozens of TV builds on GM 70s and 80s vehicles since the 1990s.
@@workingcountry1776he doesn’t care what you think and neither do we. We don’t own Model T’s or fire engines that shit is boring as is your views!
@@workingcountry1776so god he tailors his content to you particular viewing pleasure… what’s your channel where all this golden content is at?
They were viper push rods
@@Whyyousomadbruh you are a chromosome short sir
Is it really so? If you increase the rocker ratio, the pushrod cup moves closer to the valve. The LS rockers are physucally veru small to begin with, haven't measured the distance form the pivot poin to the valve tip but will today. So, based on that belief, I believe that the pivot point attaching bolt will be closer to the valve than a regular LA (or magnum). This makes the geometry better, not worse, it will straighten the pushrod, not increase the angle. However, it also may make the situation with the pushrod hole/pinch/port worse. This actually might suit better for magnum heads that have a pedestal for each rocker, instead of having only five small bolts holding the rocker shaft. Unfortunately the LS heads are symmetrical unlike the traditional wedge heads; otherwise you could use LS3 offset rockers, but because of this you only have them for one side.
Wow, I never really knew what was involved but heard a few people talking about it. Way to explain it Tony, now I understand it better. Vice grip garage guy was installing a hybrid in his Duster to give away. He didn’t explain the conversion real well and I was left intrigued but confused. Interesting hot rodding, not sure I would do that but it would be nice to see someone do some before and after dyno pulls to see the amount of power gain from just doing that. I wonder how much that mod would cost. There used to be a dollar per horsepower ratio that guys would use to justify any power adder or modification. More lift plus a power adder like a cheap turbo could make a screamer that hopefully would win races but not grenade on the first run down the track.
Paragon engines put out three videos explaining. Check it out
We have already done this and it worked pretty well! Check it out if you would like to see the idea actually coming to life!
I knew your name looked familiar, just watched Derek’s last couple videos with the duster
can you do a hemi head on an Ls
watched your video ive got a lot of weird hybrid combos i know would build monster power especially with a turbo application
I havent watched Tonys video but I took it as the stock style rockers were a no go with the cam lift you were using on your setup.
Ya Derek slapped his hybrid mopar ls into that duster and it sounded pretty nasty!! Then he tried 4 or 5 different mufflers o check the sound!? Nasty little 400 hp engine.
I don’t even want anything gm parked on my yard let alone putting their parts in an engine that doesn’t need them.
I've been watching the build on the VGG 318 with the LS rocker arms on it. I find the build quite interesting, but I've not understood the reason for the rocker arms. My biggest concern is the rocker stand that is being used for the rocker arms to mount to. I don't trust that to remain stable after a lot of use. If it were my engine, I would be worried that the rocker stand would break apart after a few spins at high rpm.
But why? Looks way more sturdy that a cast factory gm piece, and the factory LS only uses 8mm bolts. The rockers are a higher ratio obviously and have proven themselves on crazy high rpm high hp builds. Hell my 1,000whp corvette has stock rocker arms with the trunion upgrade
I always used the 273 adjustabe rockers
They still don't provide more lift.
I tried this on my 318 as after a cam swap the valvetrain was rattly!
I bought a full set of 273 rockers and shafts,it all went together nicely and I had the lash set correctly (I think?)
But no matter what I did or what help I had with these I simply could not stop the rattle! It was worse than before!
After much messing around I discovered lash caps!
So I ordered 80thou lash caps,put all the standard 318 rockers and shafts back on and voila,no more valve train noise!
Why the 273 stuff didn’t work I guess I’ll never know? Even after getting expert help it was still quite rattly but smooth and quiet now thanks to lash caps.
As usual you don't know what the hell your talking about.....I have T&D 1.7 ratio rockers on a conventional non offset factory style pedestal small block Mopar head........also with the increased rocker ratio you actually gain pushrod clearance and I am running 3/8" pushrods in these heads albeit very little clearance.
@3:00 Yep, the main difference between the “econo” W2 and the “race” W2 heads
The stock LS rocker is good for 8k rpm and 1200+ hp. People aren't upgrading to a shaft rocker until they get into 9k+ rpm range. I've been running unaltered stock LS rockers at 1100 hp and 8k rpm for awhile.
I’m a Ford guy from waaaay back, turning 60 in two days and a worshipper at the screwed up exhaust ports of the 351C and the 385 series BBF. Doesn’t matter. Still love hearing your breakdowns of the drivetrains from the last company to build hi-po engines as Steely Dan was Reelin In The Years and the malaise era began. Cars I grew up owning and driving.
Im still rocking with 460s. Great engines. I even have a car with the 351, but my mind always goes to the BB.
Totally agree. Always been a SBF guy, recently started toying with FEs (and shaft mounted rockers). But I always find UT's insight to be valuable and applicable to what we work on "on this side", lol
I'd put an LS in sumthin...a dumpster!
They work great as boat anchors. Way more useful that way.
So TRUE on the r.p.m. and oil control Tony....you have been around bud.
im sorry,but im sick of the is sickness. enough already. leave mopar alone.
Personally I blame squirrels
😂
LS: LOUSY SQUIRRELS! 🐾
Yup, they're nuts.
Sloths, they are the real trouble
Wouldn’t you accomplish the same thing by installing a bigger cam; and not have the complication and expense by re-engineering the valve train?
This was a great video. It's stuff like this is why I read your articles when you were in magazines and why I watch your show here. Maybe you can do a Part 2 or a Follow Up on this one and give details on using the LS rockers on a Magnum engine. I know those are pedistal mount and are oiled through the push rod but that is as far as my knowledge goes. Thanks Tony, DC.
Positives for ls rockers: minimum mass at the tip - reduces necessary spring rate a little bit. I also think they are stronger Negatives: can LA bowls/runners really serve up 0.650"+ lift? I have doubts, but somebody can prove me wrong. Oiling, as noted, goes way off the page for the shadetree mechanic.
He used after market heads with some pretty big flow numbers up to .600" lift.
Look, I understand where you're coming from, but the fact is, you can spend $400 machining heads, and spend $150 (or less) on a set of LS rockers, or spend $1000 on a set of Harland Sharp shaft mount rockers. (Which, IMHO and personal experience, is the only GOOD set of aftermarket rocker arms out there for any MOPAR engine, and the only ones that haven't given me failures)
And the fact that you're talking about stock heads, which even the best 340 heads are garbage compared to modern offerings... it's just not a fair comparison.
And consider that ten years ago I built a max-effort 340 with Edelbrock cylinder heads, a Howard's roller cam, the aforementioned Harland Sharp roller rockers, and made the same power this 318 build did.... for $6k more money....
There's "doing it right" and "making do".
The proof is in that you can make the same power for less money.
Combine this with the other things that paragon engines and Derek Bieri from VGG did to breathe new life into an engine that even the hard-core Mopar faithful consider a boat anchor, it's a good thing.
Paragon Motors out of Tennessee built the LS 318 motor and shows the full build in 3 videos, on the computer dyno when you punch in every weigh and lift this little 318 which is actually a 349 is being horse power rated at 580 something I know its not a real dyno but for sure this little motor is making 500 up and I bet its closer to the 580. That's using used Viper connecting rods, used Chevy rockers not a real crazy exotic build.
My 426 wedge still has the shaft mounted rockers. Even with near .775 lift at the valve and a solid roller cam. I went with aftermarket forged adjustable rockers because of the solid cam.i only had issues with shaft bolts loosening up once. I them went with ARP bolts and blue locktite and have not had this issue since.( And I'm in there adjusting the valve lash and checking shaft bolt torque in a regular basis.) The shaft mount is the way to go if you ask me.
To me there’s budget building with parts you have on hand, then there is everything else. When you have to machine and destroy what you have and can go back, for not much particular benefits what’s the point? Might as well just save your money and buy aftermarket heads and/or valve train…
The only time I had a pushrod go through a rocker arm was when it jumped timing. This is a complete waste of time in my opinion. Ma mopar got it right the first time around. That derick engine should be worried about blocking off the #1 oil feed and running a cross over indy valley.
I would think that what you want from the LS is the beehive spring! I has so many advantages over the old straight style.
I saw the title and instantly thought about the usual loud mouth you hear at every cruise night/cars and coffee that has to tell everybody how he had hemi heads on his stock 68 nova with a big block chevy.....you know the same guy who would tape a 100 bill to the dash and beat the fastest shelby corvette in town.
Just change the camshaft
"There is no easy or simple way to do this". Seems to sum up the MOPAR philosophy for decades :)
Because they were near perfect from the factory 😁
@@andremauboussin2705 ya, that must be it... :)
Just leave it as is, that's as gawdam simple as it gets.
@@andremauboussin2705 Right on! The only thing complicated about Mopars are the people who don't understand Mopars.
Let's rephrase that: "there is no easy or simple way to make a Mopar into a Chevy".
Take the least reliable part of a GM v8 and use that... sure... as a Ford and Oldsmobile guy I'm agnostic on this topic
Never would do this! I keep my Mopar all Mopar! Chrysler Power!!
I have an easier way.......BUILD A SMALL BLOCK CHEVY or LS and put it in the MOPAR.....Happier Marriage! Can you tell I am a chevy guy? along with VWs.
Good video! But, I would never consider moving away from the standard LA rocker shaft setup. I'd get a set of aftermarket heads before I did that. Far less painful.
Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
What is the size difference for the holes could you Machine the ls rocker out to fit on the la rock shaft ?
Tony could you bolt some onto magnum heads? Would make good content for the channel.
Why would anybody want to do this, damn. 😮
Dumb idea for what gains, and possibly ruining your day. Now on the other hand, putting LS heads on a SBC is a cool and applicable situation due to lift and flow rates.
Considering how many trunnion rollers I've sucked out of LS oil pans, I'd stick with the stock setup.
I'm assuming you meant to say rockers
@@RYTHMICRIOT Nope, I meant to say trunnions. Roller trunnions are part of the LS rocker.
Tony, The best solution for an LA engine is to install A engine Poly heads on one. Basically a canted valve LA engine.
Tony showed us how an old 318 can beat a super modified hybrid Ford engine. Cool video 😎
What he did isn't brand specific. You can do the same thing with a beat up old 302 Crown Vic, nitrous is the great equalizer.
@@3rdpig find a 1975 ford LTD 4door and put in a 50 year old 302 with worn out parts and see if that is true.
Honestly looks like more trouble than it is worth.
Yep, that's my conclusion.
even on the best heads do they even have enough port flow to make any of this relevant?
The amount of money that you're going to spend in Machining to do that you could basically buy yourself a 340 l a engine and find yourself a set of W2 heads
Okay Uncle Tony. You got me. I was exactly 30 seconds into this video and then you made the statement. We're going to talk about shafts in a second and I completely lost it😂 I was just explaining to my wife today why I like people who produce the content that you do not heard that statement and I started giggling like a 12-year-old
Shaft mounted rocker arms. One of the few areas a Chrysler guy and a Ford FE guy could agree over a beer on.
I saw someone put Nutella on a PBJ sandwich. Only downside was having his dentures pull out
What about your old video "tuning issue you never knew you had" where you talk about shaft mounted rockers having preload and causing lifter-pump up. Would this help that situation?
I would assume most who do this swap are doing it with Magnum heads.
If one can afford them, why not just buy a set of Trick Flows and forget the Frankenstein LA/LS thing?
I think part of the engine build was economy..so the builder had alot of stock ls rockers and Viper V10 rods laying around.
Uncle Tony are u gonna go back to New York and visit Broadway Freddie DeName for the holidays?
Freddie's been dead for 40 years!
Complete boomer video, the fact is paragon used blank aluminum head castings and made it work. Your argument is the shaft is more stable yet folks have been using the stock ls rockers well over a thousand horsepower which I mind you is way more than any small block mopar will ever be able to handle. The fact is mopar crowd is not okay with cross breading one of the “glory” engines of any sort. This stems from VGG having the 318 built. Just be glad the boat anchor 318 didn’t end up being melted down becoming a Toyota differential housing.
Ok, I'll bite. Where exactly did I come out "against" this modification???
I reported on both the pros and the cons as I saw them. Where in that video did I say it was a dumb or a bad idea?
why mess with perfection?
Steve Dulcich is a good hand at porting these Mopar heads. Not easy, but he has done a bunch of them. I don't understand why he has not finished his dyno, but he has the one on Engine Masters, so I guess I answered it. The funny thing is Ford, Chevy, and Mopar all have some great flowing heads, some terrible.
I'm thinking electromagnetic valves would be cool. No camshaft. No springs. Valves open and close based on piston position. Really.
There’s been people working on that for several years. Brings in new problems.
F1 and MotoGP were using pneumatic valve springs for a while. With those they’d basically dump the pressure so the valve was easy to open, then pressurize them again to close. If it all worked right made a fair bit more power because of the reduced valvetrain loading.
Just buy some AFR aluminum heads...That's what everyone else does....DUH.
The big problem is the lifter angle is for the old poly spherical head 318. You have to change the lifter angle to a sharper "V" and get the lifters in line with the valve train. I think Dick Landy welded up a custom LA engine to demonstrate this, obviously went nowhere.
That's why I love this channel for the fact I'm always learning something new !
Probably best just to bolt the entire ls head on the mopar block. 😊
Looks like a waist of time
Interesting details on magnum vs LA vs poly..(is it polyspheric or something?)
If I were going to do all that work, I'd like to get rid of most of the valve side loading by using a roller tip. Longer valve guide life.
I have shaft mount rockers in my LS.
Good stuff! Not sure why anyone would spend that much on a stock head. Magnum replacement heads get you a better head and a good 1.6 rocker setup
Theres a new KILL switch law coming 2026. It was stuffed within other bills and congress couldnt get it out in time.
I may be remembering wrong but didn't David vizard talk about using ls valves in the la head? Smaller diameter stem and lighter weight.
Yeah its been done for years.
The very essence of hot rodding.
What happened to Mission Impossible 318 with its LS valves? It's been close to a year since anything has been posted on it.
Glad G.m. still has Ol school v-8....unlike Mopar and poor ol Ford....I mean Mazda..on there v-8.....Long live the push rod engine.
I would love to know why a magnum engine can use 1.7 where the la can't?
The magnum lifter bores are mounted higher up. That could be why. I think UTG covered this a few years ago.
Why stop at the LS rocker? Just suck it up and put the whole LS engine in with a 6060 tremic and build new mounts. A better engine is a better engine. Put a pentastar on the air cleaner and move forward.
I started to mock up some LS rockers on a Magnum head and was getting "somewhere " with it - maybe a rabbit hole. I definitely agree it would be a step back on the shaft-mount LA heads.
It's been known the Magnums will take a Ford, AMC, Pontiac pedestal setup pretty easily and I'll probably go with that anyhow, but I'm always curious about proven junk to make my junk more better junk. So I grabbed a setup from a 5.3 at pap to see.
I cut the LS pedestals down to 4 pairs bc bore spacing is different, but valve spacing is pretty spot on. Maybe a couple thou. difference? The 8mm LS to 5/16" Mag bolt hole isn't an issue - they are the same. They bolted down with no binding. Stuck a valve in to start looking at geometry and this is where issues begin to present. There is too much swiping across the valve tip from close to open probably causing valve seal side load problems worse than the oil-puking Magnum seals already deal with. A roller tip might help, but there goes the budget and it's still not ideal.
Addition of the taller LS valve and beehive (+ 0.1" ?) spring may help with this, but haven't tried yet. That would allow for more lift at least. I think LS springs are too wide for the pocket/guide on the Magnum.
you have to use the taller valve.
What about the Mission Impossible 318? Did everyone lose interest? Stay focused...
ford 1600 kent, & others, 60,s., had shaft, never a prob..chev, allways copy, try ''something different'', that dont work.. we have the 3.8 v6 here in aus,, theres like 7 variants.trying to fix it,. why bother,,all v6 engines are garbage..
YES...LA engines already have valvetrain issues above 6K, Why TF sacrifice the shafts?
Seems to me the B blocks are better sorted if raw performance is your goal..
I BELIEVE turbocharging is where the real gains are if a person can get their mind around the principles.
Hugh MacInnes & Ak Miller provided sound material of the subjects...
But again, I weld & cut, so I dream of a SMALL(think Vega or smaller) AWD SB mid engine Station wagon....
Couldn't agree more. I would think the money and effort would be better spent on cam profile and correcting mass produced inefficiencies in the ports and chambers than moving away from a proven, reliable factory shaft system. I would also consider the added valvetrain weight converting to an LS style may open a can of worms in higher RPM stability with the 59° lifter angle. Excellent content, Unk.
I used a '90 LA roller block as the basis for my 410" stroker specifically to gain a factory roller cam setup and keep the superior LA shaft rockers. Oiling vagaries aside, the roller lifter setup itself on these is identical to the Magnum, the lifters are the same part number. I used aftermarket LA aluminum heads and was able to clearance the pushrod tunnels without increasing their width. Clearancing does not necessarily affect thickness in the port wall. I used heavy duty 5/16" ball/cup pushrods along with aftermarket shafts and rockers. The best of both worlds.
As for the LS rocker setup, I simply do not see it as being a feasible option for the vast majority of engines.
This is funny… the only reason is to get the 1.7 . I have to agree would be nice. We have 1.6 roller shafts but my god the cost is so crazy! I know I got a set then the cost of all the other stuff. So I would have to say come to money. You could spend 300 on this dumb thing get a bunch of 5.3 crap and send it and save a bunch of money. Till it falls apart. You have a lot of stuff to come apart on this setup. You going to buzz it to 7000 you know it’s going to happen. Cool stuff! I would love to see it run and the testing results. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
I’ve been screwing with valve train set ups of various designs and budgets so much to the point that I’m not afraid to try and tackle any problem anyone has.
I have a small home based automotive machine shop.
Customer brings me some later model 318 heads wanting to get more valve lift into the engine.
Without looking I tell him no problem. All the while he’s telling me machine shop A couldn’t make anything happen.
Not to sound of as better than, but I’ve simply worked on valve train set ups with unlimited budgets and the other shop hasn’t it’s just that simple.
This wasn’t an unlimited budget but I didn’t think the customers lift expectations were too unreasonable.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. This cylinder head set up has a problem for every solution a person can come up with.
Of course money changes everything. This was not one of those projects
You know you’re in a tight spot when you call the gurus that manufacture and they tell you,”if you find a way to make it work, let us know.”
I’m not calling these engines junk I know better.
You just have to go about hot rodding these different.