Was Lance A Real Champion? - Pokemon Theory
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Pokemon Champions are the best Pokemon trainers, right? So why is Lance among them? Is he a real champion or a fake Pokemon master
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Lance was with you when you're at the lake of rage when the signal is forcing pokemon to evolve. Possibly evolving his dragonair
WOAH! This Thoery! what! I never even considered that!
Can I use this theory for my channel?
@@BirdKeeperToby Given that there are SOS Dragonite underleveled implies level 55 is just the average level dragonair evolves & there are some rare exceptions! In some countries military are celebrities, so Surges autograph means nothing! Lance isn't an actor; he's the symbol people of Johto & Kanto look for in times of pokemon related crisis! He's Pokemon Allmight! The Elite 4 & Champion battle each other, like in the anime with Cynthia vs Lucian! Unlike Leon, he's smart enough to realize someone is rigging the matches & both are too moral to allow it, if they're aware! Rigged is poisoning pokemon until they're unable to be used before the battle & giving your pokemon illegal drugs before the match, like Rose poisoning Dragonite, Lance's Ace & putting Steroids in Charizard's food behind Leon's back! I think Lance always was a champion, but couldn't hire a 4th elite 4 member, in the games! In the anime, I think he's the champion of both with Lorelei/Will/Prima, Bruno, Agatha & Karen as his Elite 4, with Karen being hired during the Orange Islands Saga, because she wasn't there in the Bruno episode when they were talking about the elite 4!
@@Mythicalwyvern1 absolutely!!
That’s a cool idea
"The more I think about Lance, the more I think he's for show."
Leon: "You too?"
@@owen1994 its from before Sword and Shield came out. There were theories about Leon paying off his challengers to let him win. That he was actually a lousy trainer and was used as basically as a glorified promotional ad
@@jb0258 i wanted this so bad, it would have been so good
Bruh they are champions, of course they use their fame to promote themselves. That doesn't prove they are frauds.
Iris also literally wears a costume too. Or at the very least her sparkly dress is uneasicary and used to fit a theme. And Diantha is also canonically an actor.
So its clear Leon is also fiting a theme.
Lance says he uses dragons, but many of his Pokemon aren't dragon types. He DOES however have all flying types in gen 2 when he is champion, indicating that he in fact is a Bird Keeper.
hmm, where did i hear this from?
Here is the thing... Lance seems to actually keep his Dragon's a secret for the most part, with the exception of Dragonite... he probably knew about Charizard's mega and stuff though.... so he's obviously holding back... probably for training reasons...
@@wrathofthesage Mandj possibly?
@@E-Eyes I actually had no idea anyone else made that joke, let alone only 2 days ago! I'm watching his video about it now and it's great
They''re not all dragon type, but they are all dragons. Most of them are even in the dragon egg group. Furthermore this is a problem for the entire Kanto Pokemon League. Lorelei uses Slowbro, Bruno uses Onix, and Agatha uses Golbat and Arbok.
Here is the thing Toby, I think we need to remember that many of the limits we face are for gameplay purpose rather than actual facts for how the games happen. After all, you can find under leveled fully evolved Pokemon in the wild...
Also, let's remember, that each generation retcons the Pokemon world just a bit... so Lance does have tons more dragon Pokemon... plus, the non-dragons he uses are "dragon like" so it'd fit the theme rather than the type...
Also, it's only AFTER losing to Red and Blue that Lance levels up and BECOMES a champion... a year AFTER the events of RBY...
Also, remember Toby, Elite 4 and Gym Leaders ARE celebrities...
And for the war thing... I feel that's just something left behind because the creators didn't think the series would have the staying power it did...
Also, Lance held back, even when using Dragonite's hyperbeam...
TheDeathmail I always thought that he wasn’t using Hyper Beam on the person, the move just knocked their Pokémon into them sending them flying.
He might have held back, but Pokemon Masters shows, it that was Blackbelt mentally scarred with trauma regarding dragons and Hyper Beam. There is even acheivement Medal you can get by using said move on Blackbelts repeatedly.
maybe he used hyper beam on the floor so the explosion would knock the dude away?
Everyone is forgetting the Fact That Mustard ”Lost” His Partner Pokémon Just DAYS Before his Last Match as Champion!
And it has Never returned...
Julian The Meta-Roar THATS IT, WHO STOLE IT AND RIGGED THE MATCH!?
It would be pretty crazy if some rigged plot unfolds in the crown tundra, but I highly doubt it. The only hope is those new double tournaments coming with the crown tundra.
@@rusty8311 But that wouldn't make sense; according to his league card Mustard was asked to WIN the rigged match. How is he supposed to win a rigged match with his best Pokémon stolen, especially if it's the 'rigger' who stole it?
I'm not sure if you are trying to make a joke or if you really don't know, either way, I think in that context when they say he "lost" his partner Pokemon, I think it's trying to indicate that his partner Pokemon died instead of being stolen or whatever. If someone says something like "I lost my parents when I was x age" or whatever that usually means in that context that that persons parents died, same thing would apply here.
Could it have been a Sir'fetched? They stop fighting after their onion sword starts to rot/wilts, so maybe it abandoned Mustard after it's sword became unusable, to retire in seclusion in a sense
He lost his partner then had a losing streak, which is why he was asked to win a rigged match to justify him continuing to be champion, probably just with the intent of giving him time to get back in the game. Get to where he needs to be mentally and emotionally, maybe train up a new pokémon, just recover from losing his partner.
Lance had three Dragonite's who were extremely OP and hard to take down. He's definitely a champion.
Michael Terrell **Dragonites**
Honestly when I faced him in let’s go it was so easy because I had an articuno and a mega blastoise with ice beam. Granted, they were under leveled so there was a bit more of a challenge, but an articuno is an articuno
In the Last chapter of pokemon twilight wings, opal say something really curious about if Leon wants to win or lose....
Yeah I think Twilight wings leans into this! I'm sure somethings up!
Level 55.
There was no Champion before Blue. Lance tells you that you would've been named Champion after beating him, had Blue not done so beforehand.
Yup i did not view Lance as the Champion until GSC, in RB he felt more like a final test to see if you were truly worthy of being the Champion.
The problem is that if you don't beat the Champion, you cannot be the Champion. It was also never stated Blue was the very first Kanto Champion.
@@nickdentoom1173 Yup a lot of people never interacted with Oaks PC and read the Email about the Elite Four being finally up and running.
No one in the Game says that there was no Champion before Blue. I mean, the Champion maybe was retired and Lance being the last member of 4th elite and being a powerful trainer He transformed into the last requirement to be the champion.
@@cesarhernandez9557 I'm not claiming that Blue was literally Kanto's first Champion ever, like the player character in Sun/Moon. That would take mountains more evidence to justify.
I'm saying that at the time that the games take place, there is no Champion.
I always tought Lance Dragonites were under leveled but still evolved was because he was able to bring their full potential therefore they can evolve earlier and learn different moves
Yeah, there's other examples of that happening in gen 1, I believe the most well known being one of Blue's Pokemon (I want to say his Raticate?), and explanations of this appear other times. But people forget that because game mechanics don't include it, which would be cool if they had a way to make that work. And people seem to ignore that, by lore, not everyone is restricted by those same mechanics
@@Kahadi Most well known in my opinion is you catch a lvl 9 Pidgeotto in viridian forest in gen 1.
@@alucard8433 You can also get a level 5 Electrode from a trade, catch level 15 Gyarados in Yellow and any number of impossible Pokemon.
@@Rioluman10 I don't really count trade Pokemon since they are the same level as the Pokemon you traded. In GSC their is a lvl 10 Dragonair you can catch south of Blackthorne. I was just using the Pidgeotto as an example as it tends to be one of the easiest lower lvl evolutions you can catch.
@@Rioluman10 in HeartGold You can catch a Gyarados at level 17 on Fury's Lake
I still subscribe to the Forced Evolution theory, in that his two Drahonairs evolved prematurely at the Lake of Rage when he helps you stop Team Rocket. Regardless he could be a paper champion, in that he was appointed given the fact Red and Blue were AWOL and defeated respectively. Not unheard of in real world sports.
how have I never head this theory before this si amazing!
Si?
@@MJ-sy2enSí señor
XD
@@BirdKeeperToby yeah i feel it is debunked though since the events of the lake of rage happen after the events of gen 1 which he still has 3 low level dragonites soooo not sure. But i must say im suprosed you havent heard of it. Must have your head in the clouds! 🙄 jk I'll see myself out.
I’ve always just assumed that there was another, bottom rung member of the Elite Four that the rival must have defeated before you arrived. The rival beat the Elite Four and Lance, becoming the champion, which led to a series of demotions that resulted in Lance becoming a regular Elite Four member and that bottom rung being cut from the team before you arrived.
I always wonder what happens after the player in any given game becomes the champion. It would be interesting if someone like Malva was demoted and sought revenge.
That is what happens in the manga. In a flashback, when Wallace beats Steven, the chairman mentions that Steven would become the final Elite 4 member, and Drake would become the 3rd, before Wallace interrupts him saying he doesn't want to be champion.
Billy Bob Adventures/Special? I only got as far as GSC.
Of course, that’s Hoenn (not Kanto/Johto), and only in that continuity, but I think it was kind of implied in Gen I. Lance talks about how the rival got there before you in the same breath as referring to him as the “real champion”.
Of course he's a fraud. He pretends to be a Dragon Master when he's actually a Flying Type specialist.
In gen 1 he had more Dragon type Pokemon then any other person in the game so by that logic he is indeed a Dragon Master.
In the World Tournament of Unova Region He uses a full dragon team Indeed, so He's a dragon Master but maybe not the Champion We all know.
*BIRD KEEPER LANCE*
@@cesarhernandez9557 as a champion he is all flying.
@@cesarhernandez9557 he is Bird keeper lance
I've always thought that rigging a Pokemon match would be similar to what happens in Opal's gym, where your pokemon's stats are raised/lowered depending upon the quiz answers...Except, in this case, to the extreme.
That’s Right! That could Totally be the Case!
4:09 I think the autograph is just cuz he’s a famous gym leader
But maybe the Pokémon war is a show that’s possible
the war is not a show. it was scrapped later on for political reason because the war they're referring to is the attack on pearl on harbor.
In the anime, Lance was with the Pokemon GMen, so he's a spy/ undercover police. Maybe he's 'taking the money' from being paid to lose to find who is rigging the matches.
I remember my first time playing soul silver. I hadn't looked up who the elite 4 was and had assumed the whole game that the league would be the same as gen 1 and I was so surprised when I went in. Looking back it makes sense they changed it up, but I remember having my butt whooped and having to rethink my strategy and grind.
I'm loving the Rotom phone, very cool!
Thanks ^_^
This is a very interesting idea. I always wondered why lance was so mysterious and why he didn’t use more dragon Pokémon even when he could
We know that his outfit is designed after the Galar gym outfit.
Lance is Leon’s evil twin.
Change my mind.
I couldn’t if I wanted.
If we think about it Leon is kinda of a dragon theme Dragapult, haxours, and gmax charizard so half of his team are dragons (charizard is close enough)
Also why does Leon have two ghosts, aeigslash and dragapult
Well... Different Skin color...
I think Lance just wants to be a superhero, like how Leon is in Galar, hence the cape, the crime fighting in johto (though that may just be the champion's job), and the cool looking pokémon. He's more concerned about styling on his opponents than anything else.
"In the Pokemon Adventures manga half of the Kanto Elite Four are related to Team Rocket/involved in Team Rocket's plan" Um...no. It's true that in Adventures, the Kanto E4 were the villains of a story arc, but that had absolutely *nothing* to do with Team Rocket. In fact, Giovanni even shows up in the final battle to fight against Lance. And it's not half of them that were involved in the evil plot - they were all working together (though Bruno was being mind controlled/manipulated by the others to cooperate). I don't know where you got this information from, but it's completely incorrect and as a big fan of the Pokemon Adventures manga I'm a little annoyed by that.
Maybe he's talking about how Bruno and Koga teamed up in GSC?
@Joshua Ong In the manga, they weren't an actual part of the government or anything. They were just 4 super strong trainers, who wanted to kill humanity and create a world for just pokemon because humans abused pokemon.
Well it seems like in ancient times people ruled over land by the strength of their Pokémon, and the elite 4 is the modern version of that, maybe some time in the past their battles started being rigged or exaggerated to make them seem more powerful than they are to keep the region sorta under control? As the like, actual government run things and the 4 act as figureheads, or exist to maintain tradition?
Guzma In Pokémon Sun&Moon Anime did Say to Kukui how he liked the idea of keeping the Ancient Traditions alive, But Not in the form of a League...
Maybe Guzma Being a Evil Team Leader knows about League Rigging?
3:10 Toby, never EVER do that again.
Please.
Uncrowded Reasons ....
9:09
@@rusty8311 ;-;
I might
Manga!Lance was never a part of Team Rocket, neither was his Elite Four. The closest similarity to Lance's & Giovanni's history is that they were born in the same place: Viridian Forest.
The Adventures Manga does Dragon-Master Lance a lot better as Manga!Lance has the ability to communicate with Dragon, like Dragonite evolution line, and Dragon-Like pokemon, such as Charizard, Aerodactyl, & Gyrados. Viridian Forest does weird things to those born in it.
Yeah. Similar to Yellow having similar powers and Lance pointing that out.
Good to be back
i feel like lance and claire have ties to the dragon clan in oras.
Couldn't lace have just caught them at the dragon den, because most wild Pokemon are under leveled to their hand raised counterparts
Toby, you cracked the code and didn't even realize it!! Lance played Pokémon Go!! OF COURSE!!
Of course!
3:12 lgpe takes place a few years after rby so it’s just the art style
I don't think that lgpe is even canonically with the story, since Blue is surprised that Giovanni is the Gym leader of Veridian.
Yay a video of Toby!!!
Love hearing your theories, gives me inspiration for my Pokemon Art Work and Fanfic♡
Looking foward to many more!
Lance's heart gold rematch team has garchomp, salamence and altaria which is great :)
Hey @Bird Keeper Toby, Could Mustard's partner have been a Sir'fetched? They stop fighting after their onion sword starts to rot/wilts, so maybe it "abandoned" Mustard/he released it after it's sword became unusable, to retire in seclusion in a sense
I think Lance WAS the Champion before your rival came along, and knocked him down a peg. I think things like that happening are how characters like Grimsley can appear so nonchalantly in following generations, some Champion got beat and demoted to Elite Four, essentially replacing someone by knocking them out of the league, instead of quitting like characters like Cynthia and Alder do. As for who the fourth Elite Four member could have been before Lance, I have no idea.
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Lance: "Now that Red has stepped down, we need a new champion."
Bruno: "What about that guy in Viridian City who beat you the first time?"
Lance: "We called him. Said he's not interested."
Bruno: "Shame. He might have been a bit of a jerk, but he had charisma for days. So who's the champion?"
Lance: "Guess we'll just draw straws."
Bruno: "Man, things just haven't been the same since Lorelei and Agatha retired."
Lance: "I know buddy. I know."
7:33 wouldn’t that mean there was no champion for 30 years
This si a good point. If he became champion 50 years ago, and was undefeated for 18 years and then began losing after he lost his partner Pokemon. Let's say Leons been cha,mpion for 2-5 Years at this point this leaves us with 28-30 years. However there is nothing to say that Mustard wasn;t still champion in that time!
Hi Toby. Hope you're doing well and aren't feeling too stressed! Your videos put a smile on my face, but don't sacrifice your own to make them.
In the Pokemon anime he's also a member of the Pokemon g men which is a Pokemon anime specific group.
Lance is a cheater! Lance is a cheater!
Say it with me now....
*LANCE IS A CHEATER!!!!*
*LANCE IS A CHEATER!!!*
LANCE IS A CHEATER!!!
How is he a cheater?
@@alucard8433 the fact he has underleveled Dragonite although there are theories that make sense of that
@@Unknownfrencghost Pokemon Yellow you can catch Pidgeotto's at lvl 9 when Pidgeys evolve at 18. So you saying everyone who caught a pidgeotto in viridian forest is a cheater?
I always chalked his pokemon knowing moves they normally wouldn't to the same way we can get pokemon that know moves they normally wouldn't: Move Tutoring. When you meet with a move tutor, their experience and technique can teach your pokemon moves they normally aren't capable of using, or even learning from a TM. As for the level, level is just an abstraction of the pokemon's experience. A trainer, specializing in "dragon" pokemon, likely knows more about those species than a regular trainer, and can unlock their potential faster. If you're blending media, how many times has a pokemon evolved mid-battle despite xp (and by extension leveling) only happening after they've defeated an opponent?
So a small theory of mine, somewhat unrelated but still relevant, is that regions can have multiple champions, but only one acting champion. For example, Steven and Wallace are both Hoenn champions, and while Steven was Hoenn's acting champion for a while, he eventually gave the role of acting champion to Wallace. Same thing with Alder and Iris in Unova as well.
My theory about Blaine and Giovanni locking up their gyms is that most challenger falls to Sabrina. She has psychic powers afterall. So it must be very hard to beat her in universe,Lol even in gen 1 and 3. well until You and Blue began your journey ofc.
You Should Have Mentioned that There was a Huge Dragonite in a Episode the First Season in the Anime
.
So That Could Be Lance Doing Some thing 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Why?
Dynamax perhaps?
anime exagerates like every anime making everything scary super big it's classic anime tactic.
Great Smeargle Shirt, Toby!
Steven "The son of the Devon Corp" then changed to "Son of the head guy" how sure are we that he wasn't a robot built by Devon Corp?
I used to figure that, as Pokémon can be underleveled in various situations (like wild Pidgeotto lvl 10 Dragonair or trading it for a lvl 10 Dodrio), and movesets change, results may vary between trainers
People always forget in Yellow you can catch a lvl 9 Pidgeotto in the Viridian Forest, Which is a prime example that Pokemon can evolve before the average lvl.
@@alucard8433 and in GSC south of Blackthorne you can catch the Lvl 10 Dragonair I mentioned. If it's female you can trade it for the Dodrio of the same level. I know there are some other cases but yeah
My guess on twitter was correct huzzah.
Thinking of the gym leaders & elite 4 as TV personalities is a fun thought. So the player character in alola met surge one day & needed that autograph. I like thinking about what regular life is like for non trainers with pokemon.
Again it's nice having you back toby. ❤️
I like to think that trainers have levels too. Like in an RPG setting there are different classes you can take and perhapse one subclass is a type specialist. If you level up in a type specialist you get added percs such as Pokemon of that type evolving early or leveling up faster. This not only works with Lance's Dragonites but also Faulkner's Pidgeotto and Roxie's Whirlipede.
Lance lost to Leon because the Charizard had Thunder Punch...
Okay I think that Leon and Iris thing was a joke, what if it was accurate? Its pretty much hinted that a lot of the dragon trainers like Lance, Iris, and that one chick from ORAS are from a clan of dragon trainers, but what if the clan (or at least sub clans from one major clan) is all the same and Hop & Leon are descendants of that said clan and therefore distant cousins to people like Lance & Iris
These champion plot videos are great. Hope there's more of them.
hope htere's more evidence and not as easily debunkable as this one.
Yoooooo a new TOBY vid!!!
btw mustard can't have lost to leon due to many reasons, first it says that mustard was champion 50 years ago and that he held the title for 18 years which would mean he lost it 32 years ago and there's no way leon is that old. And second the card also says that mustard started his dojo after he lost his title and leon trained at mustard's dojo before he became champion.
I think he has these Dragonite because they evolved prematurely in the Dragon's Den Valley, and then he just caught them. I believe he just catches strong pokemon without putting in much work. Also I'm convinced he found an Old Amber and that's how his journey beings, and not a Charmander starter as he could've easily overcome a Charizard in Characific Valley with an Aerodactyl. So he isn't cheating, he's just lazy or calculated. Depends on how you wanna look at it. I think he is like his cousin Clair, a sore loser who just captured strong Dragon's, but Clair actually worked her butt off to get where she is. Explaining her hysteria after defeating her.
Thinking about it more I also realized Lance is a Foil character to the main character in the original games. Lance is a showboating, flashy, and semi-adequate while your player character is a humble, silent hero who just puts in the work. Makes sense as Lance is considered your final challenge in the original games as far as trainers go, and usually in any game the final boss is very different from the player's character.
I hate to be the one to poke holes in a theory, but I really don't think all of the gym/league challenges are staged: Lt Surge's autograph seemed more like a sports star doing that than an actor; pokemon battling is that world's most popular sport.
3:32 in the anime
Lance says he made his outfit himself pretty sure that includes the cape
It’s cool that lance can sew tho
1) he was inspired by dragon gym outfit of galar
2) anime is not canon to the games.
It's Professor Oak secretly controlling everything from behind the scenes
Klara: *tries to Sabotage me by preemptively putting Toxic Spikes on the field*
Me: *Knowing she uses poison-types, put a Steel-Type at the front of the party before going to battle her*
Very interesting 🧐 great information here. Fascinating to think about
Hes Design in Lets go is based on he's original Red and Green/Blue artwork, the version he looks sort of Younger is because that how he was Depicted until Gen 4 were he looks more like a 40 Year old and it had been Used in every media since, not counting Lets Go, Lance is basically Pokemons Superman.
I always wished he had a tyranitar in the johto games. theres no other champion \ elite for member \ main character who uses tyranitar as their ace or in general (correct me if im wrong, Im not 100% sure) and it just suits him so well. I mean, he already has pokemon like gyarados, charizard and aerodactyl - why not give him a tyranitar in the johto games? in heart gold and soul silver it could be such an awesome addition to his team, maybe more difficult than dragonite itself
Y'know what, I kinda had the idea that Let's Go was just set in a simulation of the Pokémon world, but I could totally get behind you on the whole "for show" thing, like how Super Mario Sunshine has been theorised to be staged.
One tiny hole in regards to the rigged matches theory with Leon is Mustard’s league card says “the league chairman *at the time*” which could imply that it was the league chairman before Rose that was doing the rigged matches which lead that chairman to stepping down and Rose taking their place as Chairman of the League. Of curse this is only a tiny whole considering that we have no idea if Rose was Chairman when Mustard was Champion
Yes
I’ve actually been working on a theory about something like this, and it’s cool to see other members of the community working on stuff like this too, Great Video Toby! =D
I literally just clicked on your channel and there was an upload 3 minutes ago wtf
I found a theory similar to this concerning the anime. With the only evidence being that a gyarados using dragon dance then Aqua tail on a charizard would one shot it but I dismissed it as this is the anime Pikachu in the past has hit ground Pokemon with electric attacks, a Charizard surviving a dragon dance and aqua tail combo isn't far fetched.
Nice vid man
I am living for Toby's hair. give that boy a Jerry curl juice!!!!
Pokemon levels in the game are different than anime plus before Gen 7, most Pokemon trainers had underlevel evolved Pokemons; also when people got upset when Ash's Pikachu lost to a Lv 5 Snivy, Snivy used Leaf Tornado, a move it gets around Lv 16 or 17, or when it evolves
Thank you so much for all videos you made. You are one of my absolutely best youtubers ever. :)
Jsi borec.
Lance is not faking. He's truly skilled and powerful. If he was faking then all the other Kanto Elite Four would as well and I cannot see Bruno and Agatha being fakers.
It could be that most if not all of his childhood was training in the dragon den and since that place has been for dragons for we know 3 gens it could easy have a good amount of dragon energy that could help evolve dragon pokemon early. Kinda like glimwood tangle being for fairy pokemon and having their energy in the forest.
Toby I don't know if you've played Pokemon Team Rocket Edition but that game follows a really interesting story arc which you might want to consider for your theory. In the theory itself it claims that Professor Oak genetically made Red like a robotic style humanoid and that Oak was trying to dethrone Lance and take over the Kanto region once again as he once did.
oh my God thank you you are my official hero it have bothered me so much for so many years and nobody have talked about it before now.
I felt that Lance was the "paper" unofficial champion. The major thing that stands out to me is that Blue and Red never had to fight a different champion. My guess is the Elite 4 were recently restructured and Lance was the steongest amongst rhem, having him fill in until a proper champion was found or if another Gym Leader could show strength to join the Elite 4.
On Leon, I think he saw the Kanto League, led by Lance (who wears a cape) and was inspired to follow the Kanto style. He even uses a Charizard, a Kantonian starter.
In Generation I and III's Kanto, defeating the Elite Four qualifies you as the Champion. The anomaly was that your rival beat you to it, so you as the player had to defeat him one last time to claim the title.
Yet, you don't end up "stuck" in the Champion's room like your rival did. In fact, it is only until Generation VII in Alola where you can have a title defense battle sequence.
In Generation III, you can rematch the Elite 4 and face your rival in the Champion's position again. Did he defeat you to become the Champion again? No.
In the sequels (Johto), the Kanto rival takes over Viridian Gym. Does that mean that Will, Koga, Bruno, and Karen all beat him in battle to demote him to a Gym Leader? No.
Koga progressed from Gym Leader to Elite Four, serving as a good predecessor to Wallace and Iris down the line. Yet, why is he only an Elite Four? Did he get defeated along the way? If so, what benchmark did he hit to not return to his Gym?
This is where I feel that most people are holding on to the misguided assumption that there can only be one Champion in any given region.
The Champion, once earning the title, can choose to take on any position in the league structure. Or be a wandering Trainer like Red did in the Johto games.
In my opinion, the Champion title is basically the prize for winning the system put in place by the League Association. One can be a top trainer without being the Champion, like the Frontier Brains in Emerald. It just so happens that the League Association is the publicly accepted barometer.
On the note of the underlevelled Dragonites, I feel that it is more of an artificial level cap. The Kanto rival's team as a Champion is definitely stronger than his team as a Gym Leader. Did his team demote? Did he train a new set of the same Pokemon species? In the games universe, we have all seen the effects of an enforced Level Cap in online battles. I would argue that the Gym Leader/Elite Four or even the Champion is subjected to this level cap, a feature that is already in place in the Battle Frontier
Even if you disagree with the above, who is to say that Lance did not beat Red off screen to become Champion?
I know i'm rather late here but I just wanted to say. When Lance says he's a "Dragon Specialist", I don't think he means dragon type but rather he specializes in Pokemon that are in the dragon egg group since all of his Pokemon are in said egg group besides Aerodactyl
Looking at the Dragonite levels may just be looking too far into it. If we do that we would, like you said, have to look at some of the under-levelled S.O.S. Pokémon or if you are raising the point of moves it shouldn't learn, bring up Hold Hands Pokémon or Ash-Greninja. My point being, Pokémon are capable of so many things. Really excellent trainers can bring out those things. We also have to consider that Dragon Pokémon may not be synonymous to Dragon-type Pokémon. The same way Bird Pokémon isn't really synonymous to Flying-type Pokémon. That guy talking about Aerodactyl's fossil in Pewter Museum is the only example I remember. Also Lance is a G-Man, which essentially means he is a professional superhero, for the government (or something like it). Maybe all the "showman" stuff is just PR. As far as I'm concerned, Lance may have assumed the role of champion in Gen 1similarly to how he did in Gen 2, because Red disappeared.
I do want to find out what you have in store though because I really enjoyed this theory but Lance is one of my favorite trainers so I had to try and defend him. Consider me FabuLanced.
Quick note Toby. The rigged match referred to on Mustards league card can't be against Leon because Leon trained at Mistard's Dojo, which he didn't open on the isle of armor until after the rigged match situation. Also Mustard wasn't champion when the rigged match was proposed. He'd already suffered many losses at that point and the rigged match was likely a publicity stunt because the chairman at the time wanted Mustard to win to regain some popularity.
Back during gens 1 and 2 Dragon Types were most likely designed to be super rare and all that jazz
Of course that makes it a bit awkward portraying a Dragon Type master properly but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a bit of an oversight especially considering the circumstances during game development
who ever was the kanto champion had stepped down some time before your journey and lance being a champion was fitting to fill the role as another regions champion. Im not sure if it actually states if lance is from johto or kanto but i believe lance is from johto. He is the johto champion but also he takes on team rocket in johto but not kanto as johto becomes the new target for a reviving team rocket. maybe lance fighting of team rocket relates to Giovanni being beaten years earlier but i think he actually care more for the johto region as a whole. plus as the interim champion of kanto he feels no obligation to save the region as it falls deeper and deeper in to chaos from team rocket's rise to power.
the games seem to also be in an interesting point where we play at a point that the gym leader haven't yet associated their selves with team rocket or the organization hasn't rooted its control enough to show they work with team rocket (excluding Giovanni).
Lance is from Johto. It's mentioned how he comes from Blackthorn City, the same as Clair.
yes those toxic spikes did rly make it diffecult except if you knew it and brought a poisen type out or you do it like me you got a poisen type in your party and have it in your first slot
I like the idea that at one point the elite four in kanto was legitimate until team rocket took over and corrupted the whole event until red/blue
I always assumed his under leveled dragonites we're forced to evolve from the team rocket radio signal at lake of rage
What it Gen 3 onwards were connected with Gens 1 & 2(with Hoenn taking place 3 years after Johto)? With every Region shared the same League at the Indigo Plateau(but it's a tournament like Gen 8)? And if it was first built at the start of Gen 1? And if only the protagonists always became Champion? With Red/Leaf being the first one, followed by Gold/Kris/Lyra, and so forth. With old protagonists like Red/Leaf returning in sequels as mentors and final bosses(replacing those like Lance, Steven, Cynthia; but these guys were just Gym Leaders, Elite Fours, Rivals(like N), or Stat Trainers). How'd the series have been like? How well would it have been recieved?
Lance has some mistery around him. He's a Dragon trainer of course , in Unova World Champion Tournament (this tournament is canon on the games) He shows teams composed full of DragonS. Ok let's see, Red is the official champion of Indigo Plateau but We never got to battle him as a Champion on his own region (speaking of Kanto and Johto), instead He is seen everywhere (Johto training,Unova, Alola) but never as a champion who We can battle for the championship , that means Red is an absent Champion and someone has to supplant him while He is travelling or doing some things He do, and Who could that be but Lance. Blue is not an option because He is the leader of the Viridian Gym and He also travels but not SO much like Red does. Lance had to move from Elite Four position to Champion position and that left a blank space on Indigo Plateau so Karen was included on the Elite Four being that:
Karen
Agatha
Bruno
Lorelei
as We see in FireRed Lorelei was thinking about leaving the Elite because She wanted to spend more time on her home and helping there whenever She was required, And as We see in HG/SS She is no longer on the elite four, she was replaced a SHORT time ago by Will, That's why his room is more like for an ice type trainer. Agatha I think She retired or something, I mean She was old and got replaced by Koga. And that left Indigo Plateau like this:
Lance (Temporal Champion)
Karen (New addition)
Bruno
Koga(New addition)
Will (Newest addition)
That means Lance is the Substitute Champion and Red is the Official one but as Red never is in the Plateau, Lance calls himself the champion (Thing that He shouldn't do because everyone knows that Red is the champion anyways) I think Lance doesn't have shady things happening on the Pokémon League besides having underleveled Dragonites, and for that I have an explanation, Lance is a well known Dragon Master and because of that He knows how to properly evolve early the Dragon type pokemon ,specifically Dragonite's Evolution line. (Just a Theory)
Did You know Lance had a Dragon's Army on the Manga? Lol ok that's all that's a Lot of reading
I read the entire thing and that was a great theory!!! Good job!!!!
@@DeltaYT_Aarav Thank You for reading i Know it was long 💗 Thank You
I think it was just Red stepped down as champion. In the RSE manga, after Wallace defeats Steven he says he doesn't want to be champion, so Steven stays the champ despite being beaten because the person who beat him doesn't want to be champion. I'd imagine its a similar thing with Red. He stepped down, and as Lance was the highest E4 member, he became champion again.
@@BillyBob-xx5jr that is a good reason too. I hope someday they explain that (i don't think they do but ok)
I feel like the cape is always a bit of a flair for the dramatic thing. Heck, if capes were socially acceptable, I would wear one when I needed to look awesome. Him having to buy a lot could be a product of them getting burned up from dragon training. But I totally get the possibility of it being rigged especially with Leon. Possibly Lance and his dragons. But like you said, he just fights dirty. Or he has pokemon hidden that can do those moves for him (like barrier).
It does feel a bit like wrestling right? Look at crasher wake! Professor Kakui too appears like a masked wrestler in battle royals and aspires to create a pokemon league. Pokemon Contests are another kind of Coreographed battles. Badges are very showmanship like belts!
Enemy level is not the same as protagonists level. Its just the difficulty scale compared to you. Thats why we can get wild pokemon like pidgeotto at lower levels.
Lets go is a weird universe where red and blue went on their journey but never faced team rocket?
In Let's Go, Red and Blue went on their journey across the region before Team Rocmet came to exist. Their adventures therefore ended up differently from the original games.
@@commentingcommenter1230 yep thats what i meant by it exists as a unique different timelime. Interesting veriation all the same.
tbf i think they do need settle whether leon's matches were fixed or not in the upcoming dlc, im sure we'd all like to know
In one of Pokemon Episode. James bought a Magikarp, somehow kick it and it evolve into Gyarados.
In Pokemon yellow, we can actually catch a low level pidgeoto too...i think Pokemon without trainer evolve differently.
He is still for me the most iconic Champ - well i am a big Dragon simp, so maybe it is that.
Dragonair evolves at lv. 55
But yeah, he was totally using action replay to have pokemon like that
I don't think you can really look at the levels of his Pokemon as justification for anything. If so then why did his Dragonairs in the original games de-level in GSC? Same with his team from Fire Red and Leaf Green to Heart Gold and Soul Silver. Levels are in reality just a game mechanic, and the earliest example of this are the Metapod and Kakuna in Viridian Forest at level 2. As for the "Let's Go" games, I don't think you can take those as canon to the other Pokemon games.
Lance was the Elite Four Leader much like how Gym Leaders are leaders of gyms. Of the four he was the leader, and before Green/Blue it can be presumed that there was no champion (which "Let's Go touches on if it counts). Lance is also three years younger in the Red and Blue games and remakes, and he's often described as a "young man". And yes, he does have a following of fans but so do many other gym leaders and Elite Four members. Agatha is supposed to be an inspiration to all the elderly Pokemon trainers, and it makes sense that elite Pokemon trainers would have fans and capitalize on their marketability.
None of the original Elite Four use solely their type of expertise so that point is kinda mute. Misty for instance is a Water-type trainer in the anime but she has more than just Water-type Pokemon. As for Lance losing in that episode of Journeys, Pokemon battles are about more than just type coverage, and Lance must be pretty good to have made it to the runner-up spot in the tournament.
As for Leon, yes the chairman was corrupt and probably did protect Leon from certain challengers, but that doesn't mean Leon wasn't a deserving champion prior to the player character coming around.
To me this just feels like click bait and like you didn't really do much research or put much thought into the video.
His team is filled with flying types
...
WAIT A MINUTE?!
Lance's Pokemon being underleveled is just a game mechanic thing... Though if you really want an in game explanation what if League members have access to things which limit their Pokemon. We see in one of the animations that Brock had Pokemon of multiple levels ready based on what level the challenger was. So isn't out of the question that the Elite 4 would have similar yet more advance methods.
Like a few other have commented I’m not entirely convinced that the elite 4 aren’t in cahoots with team rocket. I’m even of the mind that he might be someone high in the rankings that helps recruit trainers. Even if he’s not directly in team rocket he very well could be friends with Giovanni.
Shoot if you stick with your own theory about how the dragon types are dying off because of the influx of fairy types then perhaps Giovanni had lances team genetically modified to learn things they shouldn’t and perhaps his Pokémon were forced to evolve like that gyarados was
No it always bothered me that lance calls himself a dragon type expert while he uses a team of flying types
Technically, they are all dragons. Charizard and Gyardos resemble dragons, despite not being dragon types. In fact, I've always had a theory that Charizard and Gyardos were different types of dragons. Sure, the game does not say they are dragons, but come on, take one look at Gyardos and tell me that's NOT a dragon.
If I remember correctly, in Pokemon Generations, the elite 4 are taking about how they still don't have a champion