@@ImPowerAngelUnder the right exact context maybe. Hulk has two or three variants that can beat him. But Dante? He's gonna have the hardest time because he'll be too busy showing off rather than taking Goku seriously.
Already a big thing. Goku doesnt travel through space by himself cause he cant survive in space not because he isnt fast enough thats why he uses a ship or his instant transmission
Yea but instant transmission can travel several million light years at a time, all he "has" to do is be able to see the planet and that's only after he first got it. Technically it can go anywhere but then Goku could end up half in a rock which would rip him in half so it's still safer to take spaceships
@@rougarabid both the cases you listed are in happening in high atmosphere! - i got another thing for you - When Goku and Beerus are clashing and the universe starts to crumble you explained it as if the drawn out fight started annihilating the universe if that was the case we would have seen signs of that far earlier in the fight my take on it is that at that moment they finally powered up to where the fabric of space-time couldn't take it
@@ROoOKaiit was traveling to the other world hell and heaven which is also stated to all be infinite in size.Which is a 5d feat because the after life is above the concept of time
I believe Goku uses spaceships cause he can't breathe in space. It was years ago but I remember in the Frieza vs Goku fight that the problem with Frieza blowing up the planet was that Frieza could survive in the vacuum of space but Goku can't. Goku had fought in the upper atmosphere for a prolonged period of time, but traveling between planets is probably too much for him.
At first this is true but later he explains it's night crawler rules. Once he masters it he can transmission anywhere in any universe but if he's never been there he could end up ripping himself in half or fusing with the ground etc
I think it might be similar to Viltrimutes in Invincible. They can't breath in space, but they can hold their breath for obscene times (weeks in their case). Being in high atmosphere likely helps keeping oxygen but prolonged space travel is just not worthwhile. Also, Goku isn't super bright and doesn't have a scouter. He'd get lost.
Uhh Beerus and Goku shaking the universe is way more impressive than think because because that was an entire macrocosm of other universes being quaked , like the afterlife in Dragonball is even larger than the living universe and then there's the demon world the Superme kai's planet which orbits the after world.
Except that the living world and afterlife exist within 1 universe in DB. You can literally just fly to hell with a space ship if you wanted with no dimensional barriers or space time continuums to stop you. The entire DB multiverse can be flown to by normal means. Shaking the entire multiverse in DB is basically just shaking a very large universe.
@@rougarabidThere are barriers and shit that keep souls going where there supposed to, characters where just able to overpower that shit by the end of the Sayan Saga.
If the entire universe was going to be destroyed by their fight, why was earth, right next to them, completely fine? Even a star going supernova doesn’t “shake the universe” and if that happened next door you’d be disintegrated immediately. That statement is meaningless
@@jeremylackey6587 that's literally what was happening it's not just a statement and my response to why the hell there weren't any destruction past literally the entire Macrocosm being quaked is plot I guess
Yeah, When someone says Goku vs Superman you must ask who is writing Superman and which version of Superman it is (Sometimes Superman can destroy multiple universes and other times he can't even destroy single planet)
Generally speaking he needs serious Amps to destroy universes. Most of the time he’s closer to solar system reaching up to galaxy. Sun dipping basically makes him as strong as the writer wants.
Pre crisis could casually tow solar systems on the daily and fly/punch through reality itself so it does matter what version you’re using. But I'm a salty fanboy and prime Superman solos.
@@rougarabid I mean, you could argue that Goku is also so strong because of amps. The writer keeps introducing new forms and shit that just makes Goku more stronger than before. Superman is already crazy strong as he is, but Goku needs to shift his forms to get stronger. So when it comes to base forms, I think Superman is stronger.
"Sonic has no strategy" Sonic Frontiers: Also thank you for acknowledging Archie Sonic, it just makes me happy that people remember that series since Sega refuses to acknowledge it anymore.
@@geekymetalhead5112 *Technically* there is an argument to be made that Doomguy could wipe out the entirety of the Flood with one move depending on how you interpret the whole "Argent energy is souls" thing combined with the combined hivemind of the Flood. But yeah. As much as I love the Flood and the Precursors, They will never *beat* Doomguy. Sure, The Precursors are multiversal outer gods. But that's never stopped Doomguy. With that being said, If you don't subscribe to that one argument from the beginning, I also don't think Doomguy could *beat* the Flood if it were at the later stages of infection. Just because there's too much for him to be able to kill. I think it would be another situation of a billions of years long stalemate. The Flood couldn't get him with the Logic Plague because incorruptible will. And they couldn't kill him due to his power and skill. But likewise, I don't think Doomguy could actually cleanse the universe of the Flood. It takes mere hours for a planet to be consumed. I think their growth factor makes this an impossible task for him. He'd certainly make a dent though.
I love how he gets Norse Kratos completely wrong. Like Greek Kratos didn't need several pieces of plot armor and the literal embodiment of hope to stand a chance against Zeus
@rougarabid Kratos in Greek needed several power-ups to stand against lower tier gods and literally was carried by the POH. That's the reason why Kratos doesn't immediately die fighting the higher tier Gods. Even then, he's been one-shotted four different times each by other Gods. Greek Kratos might have better Haxs, but it's clear that Norse Kratos is just showcased to be physically stronger. In his first game, he fights and manages to temporarily defeat a guy who literally can't die nor can't even feel pain. By the end of Ragnorok, he defeats Thor with relative ease and breezes through most of the Norse Pantheon with little aside from maybe Odin and Heimdall. People downplay Norse because they get defeated in two games, but they are still equally strong. Kratos from both Sagas needed a weapon to defeat a God: For Norse, its specifically Heimdall, a guy who can literally slow//stop time and Kratos actually reacts to this dozens of times in their battle. I'm not saying Kratos is infinite speed or anything like that LMAOOOOO. He just has REALLY good reaction time but terrible movement speed. For Greek Kratos, he needed the Box of Pandora to defeat Ares. In his other games, he gets help from other gods and titans to eventually defeat Zeus.
Gotta love that growing as a person, feeling regret for your actions, and not wanting to wantonly destroy everything make you weaker even if you're shown accomplishing similar feats with less exertion. Young Kratos struggled to overcome external forces. Old Kratos struggles to overcome internal ones. He struggles to beat God's and enemies without having to rely on a part of himself that he hates which is still there ready to be used at a moments notice as we do see multiple times. Canonically Kratos is growing in power as he ages. And if you read a lot of stories his trope is pretty common. Step 1 is to revel in the horrible power you have. Step 2 is to realize it's evil and want nothing to do with it. And Step 3 is to eventually realize it is a part of you, and become your strongest version of yourself by using and controlling that power.
Multiverse theory is applicable to devil may cry there's even a dimension where a more powerful mundus as a void like entity and Dante treats him like light weight. Dante's also forced Pluto to retreat in DT post Dmc3 which is a crazy feats of power for just young Dante to have. Argosax's existence alone was messing with reality and Dante beats him in base. Mundus did in fact create a universe quite casually and Dante with the Sparda at the time fended him off. Dante has fought conceptual beings such as the sins and the God of death which governs and reaps souls which are stated to be 9th dimensional. Dante has fodderized demons who move immeasurably fast Pluto,fury,blitz Urizen Up scales any Demon From Before easily beating the most powerful Dante up until Sin DT amp just by sitting down not once, but twice and that was with the Sparda and DT going. Dante later goes onto best a urizen that had only gotten stronger by a month more of human blood consumption and the qliphoth fruit which was the fruit that took mundus from Big Bad Demon to Big bad let's overthrow the original god Demon type character. Dante also fodderizes Metaphysical entities which are timeless and outside of normal universal constraints. Love your content btw. (also thank you for talking about Dante been waiting for his debut on this channel for a HOT minute now)
Massive xenomorph geek here, I would love that, if we're taking xenomorphs from the comics,, not many would survive, if were talking movie xenos, most should survive as movie xenos can be taken out by gunfire,l and don't have anywhere near as many forms, classes or abilities, in the comics queens can straight up mind control people from all the way across the universe to make them willing hosts
I am really happy I found this channel, I most definitely don’t agree with some of the takes but all of the video concepts are really fun and the delivery is amazing
I’m just curious for the Sonic part, are we acknowledging Sonic Frontiers? Because he actually he actually does a lot of direct fighting in that game even without his Spin Dash or Super Form, I’m just curious about it is all.
That is the most reasonable take on Goku beating Sonic I've seen so congrats for that. But I do have some things I should correct. 1: Super Sonic doesn't have a time limit in universe or at the very least it's a much longer time limit than the rings given he was able to stay in Super for at least 3 days in Sonic Advance. 2: In games where he is fighting people who can actually fight Sonic has shown he is capable of fighting hand to hand in games like Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Battle, technically Forces, and Sonic Frontiers. 3: Sonic is shown to get stronger between appearances much stronger in some cases, like in Generations he took on Perfect Chaos in that game in base form unlike last time he fought him and needed Super.
@@Corvo892 No, I don't believe he could, but this is the least out there reasoning I've seen from someone who believes that Goku could beat Sonic. Even though he ignored all of Sonics hax and the fact that Sonic has immeasurable speed.
@@arichenry4573 and at the moment when he says that Goku beat Sonic and Dante, he just confirmed for us that he is a Goku fanboy. Looks like he is the one who was lying.
@@Corvo892 Well, I can't speak on Dante. I haven't done any scaling for DMC. But for Sonic, at least it seems like he didn't do much research beyond a surface level. For an easy example, he says Sonic doesn't really know how to fight. But Sonic knows at least two different forms of martial arts. That being Kenpō and Linshao Kung Fu. Combined with the games where Sonic is actually seen fighting in hand to hand combat, not being mentioned at all.
Big fan, but i have a few debunks for Sonic. 1st) Sonic does know how fight thanks to sonic frontiers 2.) Sonic has gotten stronger in his base form as he beat perfect chaos in Sonic Generation, an end-game boss that he had to go super to stop. 3.) There's really no time limit on Sonic going super, in Sonic Advanced, sonic left earth for days as super sonic, same with the idw comics which are cannon to the games. The ring thing is a game mechanic. 4.) If sonic goes super, its over for goku, super sonic can't be hurt, is speed that is considered immeasurable, and was powerful enough to kill beings like the time eater and solaris two beings that could end the infinite timeline.
@inkkid376 he also ignores the fact that Sonic CANONICALLY trains with Shadow and Knuckles and has been confirmed to be experienced in multiple forms of martial arts. Also, according to him, immeasurable speed isn't a thing because, apparently, fiction is supposed to "make sense" or some shit
@darkreflection9087 Absolutely. Link deflects multiton objects like it's nothing and wipes Ganondorf consistently, and Ganondorf was capable of moving the moon through the sky in a matter of SECONDS, something that's been estimated to require yottatons of power to do. He's also able to pinpoint weaknesses in SECONDS and has the capability to dodge lasers, which move MUCH faster than meteors
First off the reason we call dmc a multiverse is because when the universe Split in two they both got Their own time space continums we know this because they both have completely different times which wouldn't actually be the case if dmc was just a single universe. 2nd. Mundus didn't want to destroy the universe he wanted to merge back the human world and demon world and Basically rule over it. Meanwhile argosax is simply stated to start merging the realms by simply existing. Than theres pluto who Split the original universe in two and the thing about pluto is that almost every big bad in dmc are stronger than him. 3rd. Mundus had enough power to create nightmare a demon so powerful it was going to destroy/lay waste to the demon world. And how long was this gonna take well it doesn't actually fucking matter by the fact the demon world is infinite in size so noe matter how long it would take thats still infinite destructive power. But it was likely not gonna take that Long given how when mundus realize how dangerous nightmare was he imeaditily sealed nightmare's power which would imply what nightmare would have done to the demon realm would have happend pretty darn flash. 4th. mundus created a entire universe during his fight with dante. And yes he created it its stated by kamiya and before you say the whole "oh well he is a troll so he obviously lying" kamiya responded in a Very not joking way when asked the question for the first time and he simply started Blocking people who kept repeating the question, this does not mean kamiya is trolling when it comes to that question it Just means he got sick and tired of answering it. Guide books Also backs up the claim that mundus created a universe so it doesn't even matter if you ignore kamiya twitter statment as it still be true due to the guide. 5th. Dante was massively weakend at the end of dmc 1 thats why the Island exploding was such a threat to him not to mention in fiction it is possible for a creature with infinite power or beyond to become weak enough where things with fininte power can harm them. But as many of the other things it doesn't matter because even if dante still had infinite strength and durability the explosion would still have harmed him by the fact that explosion happend because the demon world was blowing up! Saying dante isnt at least high universal is just complete Bullshit
Also dante defeated sid (using abigail power), argosax, pluto and void mundus(stated by dante to "probably be stronger than mundus") in base... Yes, against abigail he didnt use the full devil trigger, he Just empowered the single slash that one-shotted him, dante is him
To back this up the DMC art book says the demons are concepts and the demons are if I remember correctly like 10th demional and the humans angels go to a higher layer
Comment no 5: Goku vs Superman TLDR: Superman oneshots. Breakdown: Superman is currently an amalgamation of all main versions of himself and due to his exposure to a white star he is also stronger than ever so he upscales all his best feats. Such as him oneshotting the world forger who is an Outerversal God. He is also so fast that he can effortlessly time travel and has outright stated that space and time mean nothing to him. He bodies Goku
Actually, Superman does basically have all his abilities now lol. Earth prime Superman now has some fucking bullshit power. He’s the embodiment of hope, even if he dies he’ll come back. He’s survived existence erasure. And space time does not matter to him. Also his base form may not be infinitely strong but as long as there is a sun he gets infinitely more powerful the longer he’s there… so effectively, Superman does have limitless strength. It’s just dependent on time.
@@yourehallucination4366 I'm pretty sure that's 100% cap as someone who played all the Advance games. Sonic though still has a long ass timelimit since the max amount of rings he can carry is like 99999999 or even more than that (This was in 06 funnily enough). Also Sonic doesn't only have Super Sonic as his only transformation. He didn't also talk about the great amount of hax that Sonic has, like transmutation, one hit ko moves, and a lot more. It just feels weird that with Kratos he acknowledges that but no with Sonic.
...Did you not see him vs Jeice and Burter? He moved so fast nobody could see him move. It looked like he was standing still. The only evidence of movement was indentations in the grass.
@@rougarabid the moveset is relatively new and Sega has said that they’re planning on expanding the frontiers style of gameplay in future titles which would make it his primary style of combat but until that happens your point stands
GREAT VID AS ALWAYS MAN. Just wanted to add something bout the Sonic part, Super Sonic is fueled by rings for minimum 50 Seconds. But I feel that similar to Superman, Sonic can just use his slightly more superior speed to collect more rings, and stay in his Super form for longer and without any loss to his stamina as while Goku doesn’t has any way to regain his stamina so I feel like it would be a waiting game in a way. But I still agree in a way bout ur choice. Either way great work and thanks for the effort that u put in your videos. May god bless u and your fam!
Ahh yes and tell me, sir. What feat of strength would that be? Can’t wait for you to give me a completely made up strength level based on an impossible concept.
Superman is literally an amalgamation of his prior forms now so that means his past feats of eg lifting the infinite weight of the book of destiny is canon to current supes, he's both faster stronger and has wayyy better hax
Gotta give it to the vid then, when all the characters are "near infinite" strength then a near infinite feat is par for the course and no longer an infinite feat. I guess what I'm saying is hulk can beat supes then cus hulk has the only truly "infinite" feats
Isn’t Rebirth Superman just ALL the Superman combined and is the main canon Superman atm? Pretty sure it even says that in the comic. So every feat of the supermen that make him also goes for him.
Alright, thia video is kinda dope. My only problem is the way you approach the vs debating. You seem to be making your own rules. Like you saying old kratos is weaker than young kratos because it shows that in the games. You even said the cory balrog statment saying old kratos is stronger. If the creator a universe states something, and unleas they say it isn’t canon, then it is canon. You just seem to be cherry picking statments and leaving out other stuff. You for real said that hermes ran thourgh the infinite underworld andthen co pare that to going around the world. What? And that is another problem, you just stamaent aren't true because they don't make sense. So because it is impossible for a human to run the speed of light, the flash isn’t light speed? No, it is fiction for a reason, so the real worlds laws don't apply. You can’t just say that it doesn't make sense. Sayian can fee the universe shake, but you say "that doesn't make sense" are you sayian, do you live in the dragon ball universe. No, sayian cave that abillity then. Either invlude everything or nothing at all. I still like your vids, but reasons are wack.
Old Kratos is stronger but he holds back so much that he might as well be weaker. He only shows his superior strength when you threaten Atreus or someone else thst he really really loves.
Yeah, this is pretty much the case with all his videos like this really. Meanwhile I do agree that some of the scaling is bad, it isn't to disrespect the people that made that scaling since they had to calculate with the laws of physics how powerful is certain feat or how fast did that character go. He's just using his own logic without having proof of why those characters have the stats they have.
Haven't watched but i would like to point out. the thing that makes Goku hard to match up with anyone other than superman. Is mainly because the defining trait and centerpiece of his character is that he is a limit breaker. Not that his power has no limits. It always did and always will, but the main part this central piece of his character is overcoming these limits. He's more or less the personification of the unstoppable force. Which is why he's always matched up against superman, the immovable object. Matching him up against anyone else will only result in him either winning. Or they only temporarily beat him, and he comes back later, stronger, and wins. Death isn't much of an obstacle anymore. If he's not revived by his friends, the deities hes befriended will just give him a weekend pass back to the mortal realm to let him have another shot. After more training, and maybe accessing a new sajin transformation. I think a better match up, would be if any of them could survive in the dragon ball universe. would they survive the villains, or be fodder to keep them occupied as goku makes his way there and or trains to fight the villain.
You’re right I forgot about his lifetime of constant martial arts training under several of the greatest masters in the multiverse including several gods…oh wait.
@@rougarabid I know I'm chiming in late and even watching the video more as I type, but Sonic has showcased technique and adaptability as a werehog, nevermind the way that other characters fight can arguably scale up Sonic like Shadow, Knuckles, Espio, fighters who at least have some form of technique in combat. It's probably not traditional martial arts because of their freakishly large hands... It's just an understatement to say that Sonic has no strategy.
People rarely mentions other versions of Superman as feats for or him amped for death battles. It usually are feats of base superman. Not composite saying every version of Clark from every story he was in
Okay kratos is not beating goku that many times...for a bunch of reasons. Specifically Hit. Hit can manipulate time and you know what Goku did? He just broke through that shit to hit him. Not only that. He definitely is stronger than Kratos. And Goku still can fight even when dead. He just goes to another plane of existence. And every time that Kratos has died, the only way he got out was with help. And his curse is simply that he can't kill himself, not that he can't die.
I mean technically Kratos also just goes to another plane of existence and routinely breaks out as well, but it's slower than Goku who can literally transmission out of hell as soon as he gets there just with a halo but I brought up his in my comment too. I think Goku takes kratos but it would be an eternal fight until one of them could destroy the others concept/soul
9:37 the soul ball thing isn't a deus ex machina. It has multiple demonstrations of its ability and is explained in various parts of the game. If it abruptly appeared and neatly fixed all our heros problems with no prior set-up, then it'd be a deus ex machina lol
HELLO ABRAHAM 9377, AND HELLO ROUGA RABID, Firstly I wanted to thank u for the effort that u put in these videos, I greatly appreciate them and secondly I wanted to clarify some things about the sonic part as well. Firstly I think you GREATLY underplayed Sonic’s speed. For 2 reasons #1: in Sonic Generations the whole plot of the game is that in a nutshell all of time stoped and sonic using PURE SPEED ALONE, NO EMERALDS JUMP STARTED TIME IN HIS WORLD THIS IS VERY CLEARLY STATED IN THE GAME MULTIPLE TIMES!!! #2: I understand GREATLY ur argument bout goku getting stronger mid-fight, but the problem there is that with supersonic it will mean squat cause in multiple occasions it is mentioned/implied that super sonic is IMMUNE TO ANY AND ALL PHYSICAL DAMAGE, so it won’t matter at the end of the day and finally the part where u thought giving Sonic the emeralds was a bit “cheating” when you gave in a previous video the fateless one 2 overpowered abilities that he uses only once AND NEVER AGAIN IN HIS OWN GAME, meanwhile sonic has used his emeralds COUNTLESS TIMES THROUGHOUT SEVERAL GAMES. Just wanted to add that and thank you so much for your efforts in making these videos, also I like your funny cowboy accent.
There is actually a Superman that has all his powers at the same time from his previous iterations actually so it's not an actual composite, that being Infinite Frontier Superman. As I quote "Rather than serve as a line-wide reboot, Infinite Frontier keeps the previous stories canon, while making many of the pre-Flashpoint storylines canon too." Then there's the World Forger feat, but that's stretching it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
2nd time suggesting, with one new entry. FPS Heros vs taskforce 141. Mythical/godly heros vs asuras wrath universe. Zombie survival heros vs the crossed universe. Criminals vs the GTA 5 trio(Franklin, Michael, Trevor)
DC and marvel lore are complete cluster fucks, I don’t even think the writers know what they’re doing anymore, granted you can say the same abut dragon ball super 😂
Which is 1 of the reasons why i never bothered reading their comics, their comics are a GIGANTIC web of confusion. Want to read 1 story of Spider-man well gotta read these 20 other stories that lead up to that, ugh. Then theres the whole powerscaling, batman somehow beating darkseid or spider-man beating Zeus in 1 story then being beaten by scorpion and need saving by a new girl. Again Marvel and DC stories are incredibly annoying, its the reason whh i much prefer Manga and regular books, cause they have the important 3 structure; a Beginning, a Middle & an Ending
Comment no 3: Goku vs Sonic TLDR: Sonic as strong if not stronger and faster in Base than full power Goku so he wins pretty easily. Especially if he gets his super forms. Breakdown: As stated in comment 1 Goku is 5th dimensional at best. Sonic in base was strong enough to defeat infinite and an eggman robot that was even stronger than infinite. This important as Infinite was stated to be Sonic's strongest foe at the time of sonic forces. Meaning he was stronger than Solaris, a 5th or 6th dimensional being. So Sonic is at least 5th or 6th dimensional in base and his super form was able to move him up dimensional teirs before so super sonic is arguably 7th or 8th dimensional if not higher. Plus in base he's fast enough to fight all across time, move in a place that has no time and even restored time to place through his sheer speed. He's going to absolutely body goku.
@@James-nr2hi Goku is universal level I don't where you took that information where Goku is multiversal and Sonic defeat Solaris and Solaris is basically the anti monitor but from Sonic (Anti monitor is a DC villain) dark gaia, time eater and the end in sonic frontiers.
The angels staff travel is called slow by Beerus. This is the same move that carries angels through different universes. And you can make an argument for infinite speed with Goku. Because he can react and tell the difference between his Instant transmission and Granolah's Instant transmission. Goku said that Granolah's was somehow faster then his.
Instant would be faster than infinite speed.Anyone can be infinite speed if they travel an infinite distance in a finite amount of time even if it takes u 1 million years to travel
Depends on which version of Superman and which version of Goku you use because some versions of Goku can body some versions of Superman, and the reverse is also true.
Currently majority of dc has been combine meaning Superman’s feats like one tapping Batman darkseid, one tapping world forger, flying faster than infinity, surviving a black hole that was sucking up the universe, breaking through reality, and destroying multiverses are all technically the same timeline and storyline now
As I saw in some other comments that's pretty much what he says in the video. The only truly "infinite" feat supes has is speed related, not technically strength. I think Goku might actually be stronger in brute force at this point
OG Superman isnt solar powered, gets beaten up by very slow moving 30ft tall robots, and cant fly Silver Age Superman = a joke character... sneezes and destroys galaxies Cartoon/Justice League Sups = maybe pre sayan saga Goku Jimmy Olsen Distress Call = horseshit.... just like Superman 3 where he flew around the world backwards to go back in time = cartoon joke
@@geekymetalhead5112I mean there are comic book characters that on occasion casually create entire universes and rewrite the reality around them by just entering there REM cycle each night. But those guys tend to be so overpowered with such ridiculous powersets it's difficult to find a fun powerscaling match up.
Not true at all. If I sit on one side of the bleachers and your on the other and I start banging on the Bleachers you will feel them shake. Vibrations move very easily through solid objects.
Goku hasn't used a space ship to travel through space since he returned to Earth after Namek. Instant Transmission puts him where he wants to go INSTANTLY. Also... 3 strikes between Beerus and Goku threatened the entire Universe 7. Pretty close to half universal. Ultra Instinct was also obviously never considered.
@@PLUTORAMBO goku is weak as fuck. You need to accept this. Ride his meat all you want. Doesn't change the facts. His whole VERSE BARELY gets low multiversal 💀
Base Superman he sure the fuck does. No one who watches my videos could possibly think I don’t read comics. Superman at base is usually shown between solar system and galaxy. Only after sun dipped does he show anything higher which I mention in the video. People always take the absolute strongest amped versions of the character and ignore his usual strength levels. I don’t.
@rougarabid you OBVIOUSLY DON'T read comics, considering the newest current Supes IS basically every Supes combined. Furthermore, vs battles and scaling goes off characters at their peak, not off anti feats or at their weakest. 💀 or do I need to point out yet again that Goku was hurt by a ROCK? Show me the last time a rock or bullet hurt Superman 💀
Rpg heroes vs 1 of every Pokemon But do it like what you did for killing floor like state the strongest pokemon they can beat Also take the pokemon at their strongest like can be a specific pokemon owned by a strong character or their strongest stated in the Pokedex Idk i think it could be cool Love your content ❤
Your videos vs Doomverse are decent, but you should probably stay away from powerscaling, because you CLEARLY dont know how scaling works. Ignorance is NOT endearing
@@rougarabidI think I'm going to have to agree with you, most spit non sensical non sense and try to up their stats off of something that would absolutely not. That's why I really like your vids, it's no bullshit with you.
@Midnight_Wesker up their stats? Real convenient of you to forget Goku was hurt by a bullet, and was ALSO hurt by a ROCK while in his Super form. This video is 100% misinformation 💀
Sonic does get stronger as the series continues. In Sonic adventure he needed the chaos emeralds to beat Perfect chaos, but in sonic generations he can beat Perfect chaos in base form no problem. And in Sonic Frontiers he learned about 15 or 20 new moves
Infinite="Impossible!! Your Showings Surpasses Your Previous Data!!" Sonic="Unlike Mechs,i can Grow!! I Get more Powerful Every Second!!" Sonic Forces,First Fight Against Infinite Sonic has after being imprisoned by Eggman for 6 months with the only thing he could do being walking around a small Cell And showing in Previous Games that He can Defeat Opponents that In Previous Games Needed His Super Form,like Perfect Chaos= in adventure Super Sonic needed 6 hits,in Generations Base Sonic needed 4 Biolizard=In adventure 2 Both Super Sonic and Super Shadow were needed,but on Generations 3DS again,Base Sonic was Enough
You mention speed during the Superman fight, Goku has instant transmission, which puts him anywhere he wants to be instantly, it takes concentration but he has used it in fights multiple times.
Another great video i didn't realize hulk really had a prayer on goku and as a superman fan i appreciate your take on there fight! Keep doing what your doing!
Hulk is the same it’s just how mad he is, now if your talking about skarr that’s hulks son, the picture that you put up was world breaker hulk, and again that’s still savage hulk he’s just extremely mad
7:40 Goku has the same thing when he makes a spirit bomb which takes energy from all sorts of life the sun the trees animals rocks other planets and absorb that energy
Sonic has grown stronger over time. Not enough to beat most versions of Goku, but he does grow stronger. Him no longer needing the chaos emeralds to defeat Perfect Chaos in Sonic Generations is a prime example. Shadow is doing the same in the remaster, but against Metal Overlord. You may know your stuff about comics, but you don't know blue hedgehog.
Shadow and blaze have stayed that every time they fought sonic his skills in combat have improved to the point that he can fight and beat prefect chaos without the chaos emerald when the last he fought him he needed to be in his super form to beat it
@@rougarabid but his reasoning for using spaceships throughout the series has always been because he and company can’t breath in space. That’s the significance of instant transmissions, and the whole point of frieza stating “I can breath in space and you can’t”. the author’s intent was to illustrate that necessity. fun fact: Akira Toriyama was largely influenced by Star Wars in the development of dbz, which was probably the influence behind the Saiyan’s not being able to breath in space. yeah he’s in space with beerus in dbs, but the usage of spacecraft is primarily a dbz plot point, and is mostly irrelevant to goku’s battle with beerus for obvious reasons.
They all can get stronger but the strongest is the one that banner is more...in tune with or some jazz like that. Which is why Joe fix it got depowered for that devil hulk story. The strongest is probably titan if not the green scar or the one with Bruce just letting everything....which kinda "feelings" like that was/should have been titan or maybe it was the early beginning inspirations.
I really enjoy how you use logic instead of relying on word of mouth but the thing about putting Dante in battles is the amount of dissonance from the games to the lore. Lore Dante canonically beat Berial with one shot from Ebony & Ivory. Game Dante has too much in his arsenal for Goku to deal with including time manipulation and Royal guard which Goku can't contend with
The thing with goku and beerus clashing threatening the universe is that A. It wasn’t just the living universe that was at threat of being destroyed, it was the entire macrocosm of universe 7, which includes the living universe which iirc is infinite in size, the afterlife which is equal in size to the living universe, and the kaioshin realm, which idr if there where any statements about the size of the kaioshin realm but iirc i heard somewhere that the planet of the kais is the size of a galaxy but it’s been a while since i heard it and i don’t remember where i did. So that mean’s that goku and beerus clashing threatened to destroy at minimum 2 infinitely sized universes in their battle. And B. What threatened the destruction of the universe was the shockwaves generated by goku and beerus clashing, where the majority of the energy/impact of the punches were absorbed by goku and beerus, so what was going to destroy the universe wasn’t goku or beerus’ attacks, but the residual energy that didn’t get absorbed by their bodies
I can say…. Savage hulk without Bruce holding his strength back should be a good match for his stronger forms, and titan hulk is well shit I can’t even begin to explain that
The ultimate lowball to an actual reasonable level. I always had an issue with "infinite speed" feats. For example: I've heard someone said Goku got infinite speed because he approached Zeno in an alternative timeline that has been erased with time being erased with it. Time still flows because he can approach Zeno and if it really didn't exist, then the gang is just they appear, and that's it, they're stuck until time is added back in.
so a couple things, Goku, and super eventually learns to moderate his energy so that he can fight a full power without destroying the universe because that wasn’t fact concern made by the gods. So he can just destroy the universe by punching that is superman prime level of BS. speaking of Superman in the current comics and enemy threw them into a vortex and when he flew out, he said he is no longer bound by time. The writer said that it can current DC silver age and monitor. Superman is the same Superman he just put mental block up, so current comic Superman is silver Superman meta
Comment no 2: Goku vs Greek Kratos See previous comment for more context. TLDR: Kratos is physically comparable to Goku, and all of his hacks and weapons combined with his greater stamina would be more than enough to give him the edge in the fight. Breakdown: Greek Kratos upscales everything that Norse Kratos is capable of (See previous comment) which would make him comparable to Goku in all physical statistics. But Greek Kratos has so many more weapons, hacks and powers than his Norse equivalent. All of which would Give him the edge over Goku when combined with his stamina which far outclasses the saiyans.
Did Rid rouga just disregard sonic battle and sonic frontiers? (I mean, fair, super sonic 2 is a one game transformation, just like hyper sonic, but in frontiers sonic actually has hands)
Sure but 150 games and in 1 he has hands. I’m gonna put Goku’s life long history of Martial Arts training over Sonic’s couple self defense classes at the Y.
@@rougarabid technically, the hands go farther than that (doesn't mean he's outskill goku) in Sonic Eraser one of the moves is a punch (but the ramming into someone option is still there) Sonic the Fighters exists, where sonic doesn't just spin attack someone to death (but the spin attack is still used) Sonic Battle was already mentioned Sonic 06 has him breakdance cool enough to make a tornado Sonic Unleashed does give sonic some combat ability without his signature speed with the werehog form (but instead he becomes a stretchy strong werewolf hedgehog) Does sword fighting help (Sonic and the Black Knight)? Sonic Forces has him do a three piece combo on Zavok of all people Sonic Frontiers was already mentioned. Even in those games, the spin attack into someone really really fast is a primary attack. Outside of those, he does have at least few projectile based attacks prior to frontiers: Sonic Wind in the SA2 rival fights, Shockwave attacks in Sonic Battle, and creating tornados since....SA2 again. Frontiers (ranged attacks and the parry) can be argued to be a power from cyber energy, so it's not standard.
Want to join a cult? Cults are badass, no?
Discord - discord.gg/et2RmVkCnc
Do you not know how to pin comments?
@@demenitusthehedgehoglitch5603yep just forgot.
The better question is if they could beat Ben 10.
Let's have a Rouga vs list. I bet you could take out Doom Guy, at the very least.
as someone already indocternated into the cult it is in fact absolutely very rad
hulk can break logic: yeah make sense
any other characters that have feets that has no logic: nope doesn't make sense.
Lol so true. 😂
💀
@@chiashenglongchia1969 seems about right
@@chiashenglongchia1969 Never said it made sense.
Kratos: Person who killed 2 pantheons.
Dante: Made the devil cry.
Hulk: Clapped a universe out.
Sonic: A speedy fuck.
Not beating Goku tho 🗣
...but can they beat goku though?
@@ImPowerAngeloh yes they can, the cosmology makes dB small
@@ImPowerAngelUnder the right exact context maybe.
Hulk has two or three variants that can beat him.
But Dante? He's gonna have the hardest time because he'll be too busy showing off rather than taking Goku seriously.
Sonic defeated many gods like Solaris and Chaos
Already a big thing. Goku doesnt travel through space by himself cause he cant survive in space not because he isnt fast enough thats why he uses a ship or his instant transmission
exactly he can’t breath in space
Yea but instant transmission can travel several million light years at a time, all he "has" to do is be able to see the planet and that's only after he first got it. Technically it can go anywhere but then Goku could end up half in a rock which would rip him in half so it's still safer to take spaceships
@@josephvaccariello4181 he breathes in space during his fight with Beerus and the entire Saiyan race breathes in space during their war with Frieza.
@@rougarabid both the cases you listed are in happening in high atmosphere! - i got another thing for you - When Goku and Beerus are clashing and the universe starts to crumble you explained it as if the drawn out fight started annihilating the universe if that was the case we would have seen signs of that far earlier in the fight my take on it is that at that moment they finally powered up to where the fabric of space-time couldn't take it
@@ROoOKaiit was traveling to the other world hell and heaven which is also stated to all be infinite in size.Which is a 5d feat because the after life is above the concept of time
I don't know if I'm going to agree with you but I know you'll get me to chuckle a few times.
Hey, man. That’s what I’m here for.
I believe Goku uses spaceships cause he can't breathe in space. It was years ago but I remember in the Frieza vs Goku fight that the problem with Frieza blowing up the planet was that Frieza could survive in the vacuum of space but Goku can't. Goku had fought in the upper atmosphere for a prolonged period of time, but traveling between planets is probably too much for him.
At first this is true but later he explains it's night crawler rules. Once he masters it he can transmission anywhere in any universe but if he's never been there he could end up ripping himself in half or fusing with the ground etc
If they're close nope.
I think it might be similar to Viltrimutes in Invincible. They can't breath in space, but they can hold their breath for obscene times (weeks in their case). Being in high atmosphere likely helps keeping oxygen but prolonged space travel is just not worthwhile. Also, Goku isn't super bright and doesn't have a scouter. He'd get lost.
Uhh Beerus and Goku shaking the universe is way more impressive than think because because that was an entire macrocosm of other universes being quaked , like the afterlife in Dragonball is even larger than the living universe and then there's the demon world the Superme kai's planet which orbits the after world.
Except that the living world and afterlife exist within 1 universe in DB. You can literally just fly to hell with a space ship if you wanted with no dimensional barriers or space time continuums to stop you. The entire DB multiverse can be flown to by normal means. Shaking the entire multiverse in DB is basically just shaking a very large universe.
@@rougarabidThere are barriers and shit that keep souls going where there supposed to, characters where just able to overpower that shit by the end of the Sayan Saga.
@@rougarabid There is no way you can prove that holy god you don’t read shit.
If the entire universe was going to be destroyed by their fight, why was earth, right next to them, completely fine? Even a star going supernova doesn’t “shake the universe” and if that happened next door you’d be disintegrated immediately.
That statement is meaningless
@@jeremylackey6587 that's literally what was happening it's not just a statement and my response to why the hell there weren't any destruction past literally the entire Macrocosm being quaked is plot I guess
Yeah, When someone says Goku vs Superman you must ask who is writing Superman and which version of Superman it is (Sometimes Superman can destroy multiple universes and other times he can't even destroy single planet)
Generally speaking he needs serious Amps to destroy universes. Most of the time he’s closer to solar system reaching up to galaxy. Sun dipping basically makes him as strong as the writer wants.
Pre crisis could casually tow solar systems on the daily and fly/punch through reality itself so it does matter what version you’re using. But I'm a salty fanboy and prime Superman solos.
@@rougarabid I mean, you could argue that Goku is also so strong because of amps. The writer keeps introducing new forms and shit that just makes Goku more stronger than before. Superman is already crazy strong as he is, but Goku needs to shift his forms to get stronger. So when it comes to base forms, I think Superman is stronger.
@@rougarabid based on that logic Goku can't do anything without going super. Fact of the matter is that you nerfed superman cuz ur a Goku fanboy.
@@lukeyoung2638current sups is that Plus others and way stronger. Currently (before he lost his powers) he would win 9 out of 10
You’re stepping into crazy territory
"Sonic has no strategy"
Sonic Frontiers:
Also thank you for acknowledging Archie Sonic, it just makes me happy that people remember that series since Sega refuses to acknowledge it anymore.
Yes and there is Infinite from sonic forces
Sci Fi Heroes vs Halo Flood
Lore wise...Doomslayer would consider that a light warm up 😂
Edit: Doom could technically count as a sci fi genre
Bro i see you on zangarangas channel
love this Video Idea!
@@geekymetalhead5112 *Technically* there is an argument to be made that Doomguy could wipe out the entirety of the Flood with one move depending on how you interpret the whole "Argent energy is souls" thing combined with the combined hivemind of the Flood.
But yeah. As much as I love the Flood and the Precursors, They will never *beat* Doomguy. Sure, The Precursors are multiversal outer gods. But that's never stopped Doomguy. With that being said, If you don't subscribe to that one argument from the beginning, I also don't think Doomguy could *beat* the Flood if it were at the later stages of infection. Just because there's too much for him to be able to kill. I think it would be another situation of a billions of years long stalemate. The Flood couldn't get him with the Logic Plague because incorruptible will. And they couldn't kill him due to his power and skill. But likewise, I don't think Doomguy could actually cleanse the universe of the Flood. It takes mere hours for a planet to be consumed. I think their growth factor makes this an impossible task for him.
He'd certainly make a dent though.
That would be interesting
But could they beat goku tho?
Linklight Too reference?!?!
I love how he gets Norse Kratos completely wrong. Like Greek Kratos didn't need several pieces of plot armor and the literal embodiment of hope to stand a chance against Zeus
Love how he says I’m wrong but doesn’t mention how.
@rougarabid Kratos in Greek needed several power-ups to stand against lower tier gods and literally was carried by the POH. That's the reason why Kratos doesn't immediately die fighting the higher tier Gods. Even then, he's been one-shotted four different times each by other Gods.
Greek Kratos might have better Haxs, but it's clear that Norse Kratos is just showcased to be physically stronger. In his first game, he fights and manages to temporarily defeat a guy who literally can't die nor can't even feel pain.
By the end of Ragnorok, he defeats Thor with relative ease and breezes through most of the Norse Pantheon with little aside from maybe Odin and Heimdall. People downplay Norse because they get defeated in two games, but they are still equally strong. Kratos from both Sagas needed a weapon to defeat a God:
For Norse, its specifically Heimdall, a guy who can literally slow//stop time and Kratos actually reacts to this dozens of times in their battle. I'm not saying Kratos is infinite speed or anything like that LMAOOOOO. He just has REALLY good reaction time but terrible movement speed.
For Greek Kratos, he needed the Box of Pandora to defeat Ares. In his other games, he gets help from other gods and titans to eventually defeat Zeus.
@rougarabid love your videos tho
Gotta love that growing as a person, feeling regret for your actions, and not wanting to wantonly destroy everything make you weaker even if you're shown accomplishing similar feats with less exertion.
Young Kratos struggled to overcome external forces. Old Kratos struggles to overcome internal ones. He struggles to beat God's and enemies without having to rely on a part of himself that he hates which is still there ready to be used at a moments notice as we do see multiple times.
Canonically Kratos is growing in power as he ages. And if you read a lot of stories his trope is pretty common. Step 1 is to revel in the horrible power you have. Step 2 is to realize it's evil and want nothing to do with it. And Step 3 is to eventually realize it is a part of you, and become your strongest version of yourself by using and controlling that power.
He didn't need plot armor. He literally cheated death.
Bro completely forgot about instant transmission or that saiyans cant breathe in space lmao
i'm yelling at the screen.... INSTANT TRANSMISSON
I’m glad someone said it. He also completely ignores combat speed
@@caliginousmoira8565literally same
He doesn't even have complete knowledge on Cosmology if either verses.
True but super man is still faster, after all teleportation isn't a speed feat
Power scaling is one of the weirdest things on the Internet to me
it has the same feeling as reading arkham batman’s subreddit or shit posting
Agreed.
And Boring 😌
Lmao @@NinjaAimless
Multiverse theory is applicable to devil may cry there's even a dimension where a more powerful mundus as a void like entity and Dante treats him like light weight. Dante's also forced Pluto to retreat in DT post Dmc3 which is a crazy feats of power for just young Dante to have.
Argosax's existence alone was messing with reality and Dante beats him in base.
Mundus did in fact create a universe quite casually and Dante with the Sparda at the time fended him off.
Dante has fought conceptual beings such as the sins and the God of death which governs and reaps souls which are stated to be 9th dimensional.
Dante has fodderized demons who move immeasurably fast Pluto,fury,blitz
Urizen Up scales any Demon From Before easily beating the most powerful Dante up until Sin DT amp just by sitting down not once, but twice and that was with the Sparda and DT going.
Dante later goes onto best a urizen that had only gotten stronger by a month more of human blood consumption and the qliphoth fruit which was the fruit that took mundus from Big Bad Demon to Big bad let's overthrow the original god Demon type character.
Dante also fodderizes Metaphysical entities which are timeless and outside of normal universal constraints.
Love your content btw. (also thank you for talking about Dante been waiting for his debut on this channel for a HOT minute now)
This needs more likes. Good video but some parts about dante were so wrong lol
"Can A Game/Anime/Etc World Survive A Xenomorph invasion" please
Massive xenomorph geek here, I would love that, if we're taking xenomorphs from the comics,, not many would survive, if were talking movie xenos, most should survive as movie xenos can be taken out by gunfire,l and don't have anywhere near as many forms, classes or abilities, in the comics queens can straight up mind control people from all the way across the universe to make them willing hosts
I am really happy I found this channel, I most definitely don’t agree with some of the takes but all of the video concepts are really fun and the delivery is amazing
I’m just curious for the Sonic part, are we acknowledging Sonic Frontiers? Because he actually he actually does a lot of direct fighting in that game even without his Spin Dash or Super Form, I’m just curious about it is all.
There's also unleashed and sonic battle
That is also true
saying sonic has no skill is wack as fuck. bro has a LOT of moves other than spindashing and whatnot and he is a great fighter.
are they any stronger than his spindash?
@@user-ll3eh6iq3o yes
@@user-ll3eh6iq3o yes
he has no skill next to goku
@@zayy4440 sonics still way too strong and fast for goku
sonics like infinite to immeasurable and at best multiversal to low complex multiversal
Which of these heroes would beat Goku?
My mind: kirby
Literally me
Kirby
bro kirby aint touching nothing 😭
@@zayy4440 Kirby is basically invulnerable
@@casey997 hakai instant errasure from existance and time
That is the most reasonable take on Goku beating Sonic I've seen so congrats for that. But I do have some things I should correct. 1: Super Sonic doesn't have a time limit in universe or at the very least it's a much longer time limit than the rings given he was able to stay in Super for at least 3 days in Sonic Advance. 2: In games where he is fighting people who can actually fight Sonic has shown he is capable of fighting hand to hand in games like Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Battle, technically Forces, and Sonic Frontiers. 3: Sonic is shown to get stronger between appearances much stronger in some cases, like in Generations he took on Perfect Chaos in that game in base form unlike last time he fought him and needed Super.
@@arichenry4573 what you really believe that Goku can beat Sonic?
@@Corvo892 No, I don't believe he could, but this is the least out there reasoning I've seen from someone who believes that Goku could beat Sonic. Even though he ignored all of Sonics hax and the fact that Sonic has immeasurable speed.
@@arichenry4573 and at the moment when he says that Goku beat Sonic and Dante, he just confirmed for us that he is a Goku fanboy. Looks like he is the one who was lying.
@@Corvo892 Well, I can't speak on Dante. I haven't done any scaling for DMC. But for Sonic, at least it seems like he didn't do much research beyond a surface level. For an easy example, he says Sonic doesn't really know how to fight. But Sonic knows at least two different forms of martial arts. That being Kenpō and Linshao Kung Fu. Combined with the games where Sonic is actually seen fighting in hand to hand combat, not being mentioned at all.
@Corvo892 Couldn't be. He said Kratos could beat Goku and that is an insane thing to say even if you arent a goku fanboy
Big fan, but i have a few debunks for Sonic.
1st) Sonic does know how fight thanks to sonic frontiers
2.) Sonic has gotten stronger in his base form as he beat perfect chaos in Sonic Generation, an end-game boss that he had to go super to stop.
3.) There's really no time limit on Sonic going super, in Sonic Advanced, sonic left earth for days as super sonic, same with the idw comics which are cannon to the games. The ring thing is a game mechanic.
4.) If sonic goes super, its over for goku, super sonic can't be hurt, is speed that is considered immeasurable, and was powerful enough to kill beings like the time eater and solaris two beings that could end the infinite timeline.
@inkkid376 he also ignores the fact that Sonic CANONICALLY trains with Shadow and Knuckles and has been confirmed to be experienced in multiple forms of martial arts. Also, according to him, immeasurable speed isn't a thing because, apparently, fiction is supposed to "make sense" or some shit
@@inkkid376 yeah, I love Rouga but idk what tf he was smoking, and could I get some?
if sonic use too much energy in him super form he will going out of it and Goku will beat him
@@joelzfox9740 incorrect. You have to be on his level to even damage Super Sonic. Something Goku HAS NOT shown the feats for 💀
@joelzfox9740 Sonic also beat something that was the literal embodiment of a CONCEPT. Something Goku has NEVER done
Open World Heroes vs Ark
Yes
I would really love to see this one just because of how surprisingly insane arks lore is
@@Wisdombird I wonder if Link could beat the bosses
@darkreflection9087 Absolutely. Link deflects multiton objects like it's nothing and wipes Ganondorf consistently, and Ganondorf was capable of moving the moon through the sky in a matter of SECONDS, something that's been estimated to require yottatons of power to do. He's also able to pinpoint weaknesses in SECONDS and has the capability to dodge lasers, which move MUCH faster than meteors
@@hellzonefirebrigade3056 For the record I’m pretty sure the Link’s that can be used are BOTW Link and TOTK Link because it’s Open World Heroes vs Ark
12:40 actually, Hermes' downfall was his hubris, he stopped to mock Kratos and let his guard down
Your point still stands though
To anyone who thinks Norse Kratos is stronger than Greek Kratos, consider one thing.
Air combos.
First off the reason we call dmc a multiverse is because when the universe Split in two they both got Their own time space continums we know this because they both have completely different times which wouldn't actually be the case if dmc was just a single universe.
2nd. Mundus didn't want to destroy the universe he wanted to merge back the human world and demon world and Basically rule over it. Meanwhile argosax is simply stated to start merging the realms by simply existing. Than theres pluto who Split the original universe in two and the thing about pluto is that almost every big bad in dmc are stronger than him.
3rd. Mundus had enough power to create nightmare a demon so powerful it was going to destroy/lay waste to the demon world. And how long was this gonna take well it doesn't actually fucking matter by the fact the demon world is infinite in size so noe matter how long it would take thats still infinite destructive power. But it was likely not gonna take that Long given how when mundus realize how dangerous nightmare was he imeaditily sealed nightmare's power which would imply what nightmare would have done to the demon realm would have happend pretty darn flash.
4th. mundus created a entire universe during his fight with dante. And yes he created it its stated by kamiya and before you say the whole "oh well he is a troll so he obviously lying" kamiya responded in a Very not joking way when asked the question for the first time and he simply started Blocking people who kept repeating the question, this does not mean kamiya is trolling when it comes to that question it Just means he got sick and tired of answering it. Guide books Also backs up the claim that mundus created a universe so it doesn't even matter if you ignore kamiya twitter statment as it still be true due to the guide.
5th. Dante was massively weakend at the end of dmc 1 thats why the Island exploding was such a threat to him not to mention in fiction it is possible for a creature with infinite power or beyond to become weak enough where things with fininte power can harm them. But as many of the other things it doesn't matter because even if dante still had infinite strength and durability the explosion would still have harmed him by the fact that explosion happend because the demon world was blowing up!
Saying dante isnt at least high universal is just complete Bullshit
Agree
True.
Also dante defeated sid (using abigail power), argosax, pluto and void mundus(stated by dante to "probably be stronger than mundus") in base... Yes, against abigail he didnt use the full devil trigger, he Just empowered the single slash that one-shotted him, dante is him
dante is really a heavy hitter lmaoo, i felt like he ain’t give sum characters enough credit.
To back this up the DMC art book says the demons are concepts and the demons are if I remember correctly like 10th demional and the humans angels go to a higher layer
Comment no 5: Goku vs Superman
TLDR: Superman oneshots.
Breakdown:
Superman is currently an amalgamation of all main versions of himself and due to his exposure to a white star he is also stronger than ever so he upscales all his best feats. Such as him oneshotting the world forger who is an Outerversal God.
He is also so fast that he can effortlessly time travel and has outright stated that space and time mean nothing to him.
He bodies Goku
Actually, Superman does basically have all his abilities now lol. Earth prime Superman now has some fucking bullshit power. He’s the embodiment of hope, even if he dies he’ll come back. He’s survived existence erasure. And space time does not matter to him.
Also his base form may not be infinitely strong but as long as there is a sun he gets infinitely more powerful the longer he’s there… so effectively, Superman does have limitless strength. It’s just dependent on time.
Sonic has stayed in his super form for multiple days (in the advanced series) the time limit is more of an game mechanic
I don't recall playing as Super Sonic for multiple days
@@SuperNobody64 In the sonic advance game there's a cutscene where Sonic stays in his super formed for multiple days.
@@SuperNobody64 ua-cam.com/video/3NL27NJ3TYA/v-deo.htmlsi=z1EgvSbhz8O3x9KY
@@yourehallucination4366 That's interesting and terrifying
@@yourehallucination4366 I'm pretty sure that's 100% cap as someone who played all the Advance games. Sonic though still has a long ass timelimit since the max amount of rings he can carry is like 99999999 or even more than that (This was in 06 funnily enough). Also Sonic doesn't only have Super Sonic as his only transformation. He didn't also talk about the great amount of hax that Sonic has, like transmutation, one hit ko moves, and a lot more. It just feels weird that with Kratos he acknowledges that but no with Sonic.
massively faster than light Goku is where you lost me 😭
He been faster than Light since he was a kid 😭
...Did you not see him vs Jeice and Burter? He moved so fast nobody could see him move. It looked like he was standing still. The only evidence of movement was indentations in the grass.
@TimedRevolver bro those were superhumans too! he literally turns invisible to humans
Sonic frontiers gave sonic an entire moveset so spin dash and homing attack aren’t his only moves anymore
Yeah but 150 games and one game where he does some other stuff. Safe to say he’s got a go to fighting style.
Now he can lose with all those cool moves
@@rougarabiduse archie sonic lol
@@rougarabid the moveset is relatively new and Sega has said that they’re planning on expanding the frontiers style of gameplay in future titles which would make it his primary style of combat but until that happens your point stands
@@faresalsayed9005 Sonic also canonically trains with Shadow AND Knuckles. He's confirmed to know multiple forms of martial arts 💀
GREAT VID AS ALWAYS MAN. Just wanted to add something bout the Sonic part, Super Sonic is fueled by rings for minimum 50 Seconds. But I feel that similar to Superman, Sonic can just use his slightly more superior speed to collect more rings, and stay in his Super form for longer and without any loss to his stamina as while Goku doesn’t has any way to regain his stamina so I feel like it would be a waiting game in a way. But I still agree in a way bout ur choice. Either way great work and thanks for the effort that u put in your videos. May god bless u and your fam!
Looking forward to ur next video!!!
@@abrahamblanco9377 Sonic defeats Goku just playing with him.
If there will be part 2, please bring Doom and Dante
Umm…Dante again?
@@rougarabid i think hes high on copium and wants dante to rematch goku lol
@@rougarabid I meant his brother, sorry.
@@DarthNox66Vergil
@Imadog4834-qr9ic think that would be about the same considering him and Dante ate on an equal power level. Now both as a 2 v 1 tho.
forgets to mention that Thor hit the world serpent back in time
Ahh yes and tell me, sir. What feat of strength would that be? Can’t wait for you to give me a completely made up strength level based on an impossible concept.
@@rougarabid that's the whole point, it impossible
Superman is literally an amalgamation of his prior forms now so that means his past feats of eg lifting the infinite weight of the book of destiny is canon to current supes, he's both faster stronger and has wayyy better hax
Book of destiny has been proven to not weigh infinitely. It has a fuck ton of pages but characters have read the whole thing.
@@rougarabid oh really, well i mean it's still an amazing feat since it has all of recorded past, present snd future events
Gotta give it to the vid then, when all the characters are "near infinite" strength then a near infinite feat is par for the course and no longer an infinite feat. I guess what I'm saying is hulk can beat supes then cus hulk has the only truly "infinite" feats
Isn’t Rebirth Superman just ALL the Superman combined and is the main canon Superman atm? Pretty sure it even says that in the comic. So every feat of the supermen that make him also goes for him.
Alright, thia video is kinda dope. My only problem is the way you approach the vs debating. You seem to be making your own rules. Like you saying old kratos is weaker than young kratos because it shows that in the games. You even said the cory balrog statment saying old kratos is stronger. If the creator a universe states something, and unleas they say it isn’t canon, then it is canon. You just seem to be cherry picking statments and leaving out other stuff. You for real said that hermes ran thourgh the infinite underworld andthen co pare that to going around the world. What? And that is another problem, you just stamaent aren't true because they don't make sense. So because it is impossible for a human to run the speed of light, the flash isn’t light speed? No, it is fiction for a reason, so the real worlds laws don't apply. You can’t just say that it doesn't make sense. Sayian can fee the universe shake, but you say "that doesn't make sense" are you sayian, do you live in the dragon ball universe. No, sayian cave that abillity then. Either invlude everything or nothing at all. I still like your vids, but reasons are wack.
Old Kratos is stronger but he holds back so much that he might as well be weaker. He only shows his superior strength when you threaten Atreus or someone else thst he really really loves.
Yeah, this is pretty much the case with all his videos like this really. Meanwhile I do agree that some of the scaling is bad, it isn't to disrespect the people that made that scaling since they had to calculate with the laws of physics how powerful is certain feat or how fast did that character go. He's just using his own logic without having proof of why those characters have the stats they have.
Haven't watched but i would like to point out. the thing that makes Goku hard to match up with anyone other than superman. Is mainly because the defining trait and centerpiece of his character is that he is a limit breaker. Not that his power has no limits. It always did and always will, but the main part this central piece of his character is overcoming these limits.
He's more or less the personification of the unstoppable force. Which is why he's always matched up against superman, the immovable object. Matching him up against anyone else will only result in him either winning. Or they only temporarily beat him, and he comes back later, stronger, and wins. Death isn't much of an obstacle anymore. If he's not revived by his friends, the deities hes befriended will just give him a weekend pass back to the mortal realm to let him have another shot. After more training, and maybe accessing a new sajin transformation.
I think a better match up, would be if any of them could survive in the dragon ball universe. would they survive the villains, or be fodder to keep them occupied as goku makes his way there and or trains to fight the villain.
The moment he said Sonic does not know how to fight I knew I can't trust this guy's opinions
You’re right I forgot about his lifetime of constant martial arts training under several of the greatest masters in the multiverse including several gods…oh wait.
@@rougarabid I know I'm chiming in late and even watching the video more as I type, but Sonic has showcased technique and adaptability as a werehog, nevermind the way that other characters fight can arguably scale up Sonic like Shadow, Knuckles, Espio, fighters who at least have some form of technique in combat. It's probably not traditional martial arts because of their freakishly large hands... It's just an understatement to say that Sonic has no strategy.
10:02 this is the most funniest thing I've ever listened to and it's so true.
2:25 Um😅 you would be surprised
People rarely mentions other versions of Superman as feats for or him amped for death battles. It usually are feats of base superman. Not composite saying every version of Clark from every story he was in
Okay kratos is not beating goku that many times...for a bunch of reasons. Specifically Hit. Hit can manipulate time and you know what Goku did? He just broke through that shit to hit him. Not only that. He definitely is stronger than Kratos. And Goku still can fight even when dead. He just goes to another plane of existence. And every time that Kratos has died, the only way he got out was with help. And his curse is simply that he can't kill himself, not that he can't die.
I mean technically Kratos also just goes to another plane of existence and routinely breaks out as well, but it's slower than Goku who can literally transmission out of hell as soon as he gets there just with a halo but I brought up his in my comment too. I think Goku takes kratos but it would be an eternal fight until one of them could destroy the others concept/soul
9:37 the soul ball thing isn't a deus ex machina. It has multiple demonstrations of its ability and is explained in various parts of the game. If it abruptly appeared and neatly fixed all our heros problems with no prior set-up, then it'd be a deus ex machina lol
HELLO ABRAHAM 9377, AND HELLO ROUGA RABID, Firstly I wanted to thank u for the effort that u put in these videos, I greatly appreciate them and secondly I wanted to clarify some things about the sonic part as well. Firstly I think you GREATLY underplayed Sonic’s speed. For 2 reasons #1: in Sonic Generations the whole plot of the game is that in a nutshell all of time stoped and sonic using PURE SPEED ALONE, NO EMERALDS JUMP STARTED TIME IN HIS WORLD THIS IS VERY CLEARLY STATED IN THE GAME MULTIPLE TIMES!!! #2: I understand GREATLY ur argument bout goku getting stronger mid-fight, but the problem there is that with supersonic it will mean squat cause in multiple occasions it is mentioned/implied that super sonic is IMMUNE TO ANY AND ALL PHYSICAL DAMAGE, so it won’t matter at the end of the day and finally the part where u thought giving Sonic the emeralds was a bit “cheating” when you gave in a previous video the fateless one 2 overpowered abilities that he uses only once AND NEVER AGAIN IN HIS OWN GAME, meanwhile sonic has used his emeralds COUNTLESS TIMES THROUGHOUT SEVERAL GAMES. Just wanted to add that and thank you so much for your efforts in making these videos, also I like your funny cowboy accent.
I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY
That and u forgot to mention that in the end of sonic colors BAS FORM SONIC OUTRAN A ARTIFICIAL BLACK HOLE!!!
@@abrahamblanco9377 THANK U FOR REMINDING ME
Not to mention that he can both clone himself and stop time with just 2 emeralds sooo….
There is actually a Superman that has all his powers at the same time from his previous iterations actually so it's not an actual composite, that being Infinite Frontier Superman. As I quote "Rather than serve as a line-wide reboot, Infinite Frontier keeps the previous stories canon, while making many of the pre-Flashpoint storylines canon too." Then there's the World Forger feat, but that's stretching it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Basically, from what I gathered, a lot of DBZ glazing while heavily, HEAVILY downplaying Superman, Sonic, and especially my boy Dante.
Rouga db fanboy confirmed
2nd time suggesting, with one new entry.
FPS Heros vs taskforce 141.
Mythical/godly heros vs asuras wrath universe.
Zombie survival heros vs the crossed universe.
Criminals vs the GTA 5 trio(Franklin, Michael, Trevor)
DC and marvel lore are complete cluster fucks, I don’t even think the writers know what they’re doing anymore, granted you can say the same abut dragon ball super 😂
Which is 1 of the reasons why i never bothered reading their comics, their comics are a GIGANTIC web of confusion. Want to read 1 story of Spider-man well gotta read these 20 other stories that lead up to that, ugh. Then theres the whole powerscaling, batman somehow beating darkseid or spider-man beating Zeus in 1 story then being beaten by scorpion and need saving by a new girl.
Again Marvel and DC stories are incredibly annoying, its the reason whh i much prefer Manga and regular books, cause they have the important 3 structure; a Beginning, a Middle & an Ending
5:28 I mean, Superman almost destroyed two universes in a fight with golden age Superman.
I laughed so hard at you shitting on old kratos💀😂, btw pleaseeee add Mori Jin to the list
Let's all take a moment to be horrified at the idea of Sonic getting the Dragon Ball gravity rooms.
Comment no 3: Goku vs Sonic
TLDR: Sonic as strong if not stronger and faster in Base than full power Goku so he wins pretty easily. Especially if he gets his super forms.
Breakdown:
As stated in comment 1 Goku is 5th dimensional at best.
Sonic in base was strong enough to defeat infinite and an eggman robot that was even stronger than infinite.
This important as Infinite was stated to be Sonic's strongest foe at the time of sonic forces. Meaning he was stronger than Solaris, a 5th or 6th dimensional being. So Sonic is at least 5th or 6th dimensional in base and his super form was able to move him up dimensional teirs before so super sonic is arguably 7th or 8th dimensional if not higher.
Plus in base he's fast enough to fight all across time, move in a place that has no time and even restored time to place through his sheer speed.
He's going to absolutely body goku.
You don't know Sonic that's for sure buddy.
@@Corvo892 I know him better than you clearly. Everything I said is based off of things that have happened in the games. They are facts.
@@James-nr2hi Goku vs Sonic. Universal level vs multiversal level who you really think who is gonna win?
@@Corvo892 Both of the characters are way above those levels. You clearly don't know your stuff.
They are both complex multiversal
@@James-nr2hi Goku is universal level I don't where you took that information where Goku is multiversal and Sonic defeat Solaris and Solaris is basically the anti monitor but from Sonic (Anti monitor is a DC villain) dark gaia, time eater and the end in sonic frontiers.
The angels staff travel is called slow by Beerus. This is the same move that carries angels through different universes.
And you can make an argument for infinite speed with Goku. Because he can react and tell the difference between his Instant transmission and Granolah's Instant transmission. Goku said that Granolah's was somehow faster then his.
Regardless it's not technically teleportation then.
Instant would be faster than infinite speed.Anyone can be infinite speed if they travel an infinite distance in a finite amount of time even if it takes u 1 million years to travel
Master chief vs popeyes biscuit - no drink
if I had to give a suggestion I'd love to see one that has to do with the monster hunter creatures
18:43 i mean, sonic battle exists
And sonic frontiers
Oh wait, you're talking about classic sonic?
If it's classic sonic, then accurate
@@demenitusthehedgehoglitch5603 Goku vs Sonic. Universal level vs multiversal level who you really think who is gonna win?
@@Corvo892 Inaccurate tiers for the characters
@@Power-kn6fk what you mean?
the timer for Sonic's super form is just a game mechanic, it can last for a long while
Nah man Superman wins.
He said superman wins
@@thegammingbrojeff oh…
Depends on which version of Superman and which version of Goku you use because some versions of Goku can body some versions of Superman, and the reverse is also true.
Currently majority of dc has been combine meaning Superman’s feats like one tapping Batman darkseid, one tapping world forger, flying faster than infinity, surviving a black hole that was sucking up the universe, breaking through reality, and destroying multiverses are all technically the same timeline and storyline now
As I saw in some other comments that's pretty much what he says in the video. The only truly "infinite" feat supes has is speed related, not technically strength. I think Goku might actually be stronger in brute force at this point
Wait for DB fanboys to find it
I'm an anime fan but I'm a comics guy alot more and I think alot of comic characters dog walk goku.
@@geekymetalhead5112 Then you are not a fanboy
OG Superman isnt solar powered, gets beaten up by very slow moving 30ft tall robots, and cant fly
Silver Age Superman = a joke character... sneezes and destroys galaxies
Cartoon/Justice League Sups = maybe pre sayan saga Goku
Jimmy Olsen Distress Call = horseshit.... just like Superman 3 where he flew around the world backwards to go back in time = cartoon joke
@@zarthemad8386 goku gets hurt by rocks and bullets 💀
@@geekymetalhead5112I mean there are comic book characters that on occasion casually create entire universes and rewrite the reality around them by just entering there REM cycle each night. But those guys tend to be so overpowered with such ridiculous powersets it's difficult to find a fun powerscaling match up.
That’s the thing…for you to shake the bleachers you would either need to shake the bleachers them selves…or what they are on/being floated in….
Not true at all. If I sit on one side of the bleachers and your on the other and I start banging on the Bleachers you will feel them shake. Vibrations move very easily through solid objects.
I guarantee none of these creators intended for their shit to be thought of this deep lol
RPG heroes vs the darkest dungeon
I have a list of over 100 characters that can beat goku and yet I see people saying that he's one of the strongest characters in fiction
now how many people will recognize most of the over 100 characters
@@mrme.484 well I mean at least 40% of them are pretty recognizable
Goku hasn't used a space ship to travel through space since he returned to Earth after Namek. Instant Transmission puts him where he wants to go INSTANTLY.
Also... 3 strikes between Beerus and Goku threatened the entire Universe 7. Pretty close to half universal.
Ultra Instinct was also obviously never considered.
Goku is NOT stronger than Superman. Try reading a comic book sometime 💀
Goku slaps your favs. You need to accept this.
@@PLUTORAMBO goku is weak as fuck. You need to accept this. Ride his meat all you want. Doesn't change the facts. His whole VERSE BARELY gets low multiversal 💀
@@PLUTORAMBO💀
Base Superman he sure the fuck does. No one who watches my videos could possibly think I don’t read comics. Superman at base is usually shown between solar system and galaxy. Only after sun dipped does he show anything higher which I mention in the video. People always take the absolute strongest amped versions of the character and ignore his usual strength levels. I don’t.
@rougarabid you OBVIOUSLY DON'T read comics, considering the newest current Supes IS basically every Supes combined. Furthermore, vs battles and scaling goes off characters at their peak, not off anti feats or at their weakest. 💀 or do I need to point out yet again that Goku was hurt by a ROCK? Show me the last time a rock or bullet hurt Superman 💀
Finally a good assessment of superman
You sound like android 13
Sorry you say trucker hat?
80s cartoon heroes vs 80s horror icons
Na wrong Superman and sonic win
Rpg heroes vs 1 of every Pokemon
But do it like what you did for killing floor like state the strongest pokemon they can beat
Also take the pokemon at their strongest like can be a specific pokemon owned by a strong character or their strongest stated in the Pokedex
Idk i think it could be cool
Love your content ❤
Your videos vs Doomverse are decent, but you should probably stay away from powerscaling, because you CLEARLY dont know how scaling works. Ignorance is NOT endearing
Or…hear me out…scalers are full of shit and I don’t care about their made up rules and bullshit theories.
@@rougarabidI think I'm going to have to agree with you, most spit non sensical non sense and try to up their stats off of something that would absolutely not. That's why I really like your vids, it's no bullshit with you.
@@rougarabid or, hear me out, you don't know what you are talking about and are talking out your ass, even as you ignore shit to wank Goku 💀
@rougarabid maybe try looking up why scaling works the way it does before being ignorant on the matter 💀
@Midnight_Wesker up their stats? Real convenient of you to forget Goku was hurt by a bullet, and was ALSO hurt by a ROCK while in his Super form. This video is 100% misinformation 💀
Sonic does get stronger as the series continues. In Sonic adventure he needed the chaos emeralds to beat Perfect chaos, but in sonic generations he can beat Perfect chaos in base form no problem. And in Sonic Frontiers he learned about 15 or 20 new moves
Infinite="Impossible!! Your Showings Surpasses Your Previous Data!!"
Sonic="Unlike Mechs,i can Grow!! I Get more Powerful Every Second!!"
Sonic Forces,First Fight Against Infinite Sonic has after being imprisoned by Eggman for 6 months with the only thing he could do being walking around a small Cell
And showing in Previous Games that He can Defeat Opponents that In Previous Games Needed His Super Form,like
Perfect Chaos=
in adventure Super Sonic needed 6 hits,in Generations Base Sonic needed 4
Biolizard=In adventure 2 Both Super Sonic and Super Shadow were needed,but on Generations 3DS again,Base Sonic was Enough
Cant wait for part two! Top tier content rouga
You mention speed during the Superman fight, Goku has instant transmission, which puts him anywhere he wants to be instantly, it takes concentration but he has used it in fights multiple times.
18:43 okay that's like telling a wizard, "you can't fight!" then getting obliterated by the sun
Another great video i didn't realize hulk really had a prayer on goku and as a superman fan i appreciate your take on there fight! Keep doing what your doing!
Hulk is the same it’s just how mad he is, now if your talking about skarr that’s hulks son, the picture that you put up was world breaker hulk, and again that’s still savage hulk he’s just extremely mad
7:40 Goku has the same thing when he makes a spirit bomb which takes energy from all sorts of life the sun the trees animals rocks other planets and absorb that energy
It wasn’t a saiyan who said the null realm shook it was. Elder Kai
To be fair, Goku has INSTANT transmission that he can use mid battle. Which he has ask Cell
Sonic has grown stronger over time. Not enough to beat most versions of Goku, but he does grow stronger. Him no longer needing the chaos emeralds to defeat Perfect Chaos in Sonic Generations is a prime example. Shadow is doing the same in the remaster, but against Metal Overlord.
You may know your stuff about comics, but you don't know blue hedgehog.
Shadow and blaze have stayed that every time they fought sonic his skills in combat have improved to the point that he can fight and beat prefect chaos without the chaos emerald when the last he fought him he needed to be in his super form to beat it
Goku uses spaceships because he can’t breath in space, not a lack of speed. Goku is without a doubt mftl
He breathes in space no problem in his fight with Beerus so that’s not true.
@@rougarabid but his reasoning for using spaceships throughout the series has always been because he and company can’t breath in space. That’s the significance of instant transmissions, and the whole point of frieza stating “I can breath in space and you can’t”. the author’s intent was to illustrate that necessity. fun fact: Akira Toriyama was largely influenced by Star Wars in the development of dbz, which was probably the influence behind the Saiyan’s not being able to breath in space. yeah he’s in space with beerus in dbs, but the usage of spacecraft is primarily a dbz plot point, and is mostly irrelevant to goku’s battle with beerus for obvious reasons.
@@rougarabid btw i’m a fan of ur content bro
They all can get stronger but the strongest is the one that banner is more...in tune with or some jazz like that. Which is why Joe fix it got depowered for that devil hulk story. The strongest is probably titan if not the green scar or the one with Bruce just letting everything....which kinda "feelings" like that was/should have been titan or maybe it was the early beginning inspirations.
I really enjoy how you use logic instead of relying on word of mouth but the thing about putting Dante in battles is the amount of dissonance from the games to the lore. Lore Dante canonically beat Berial with one shot from Ebony & Ivory. Game Dante has too much in his arsenal for Goku to deal with including time manipulation and Royal guard which Goku can't contend with
Nah bro you forgot he can fight. Sonic battle is cannon and in that game he can upside-down spin kick showing he has some form of combat
The thing with goku and beerus clashing threatening the universe is that
A. It wasn’t just the living universe that was at threat of being destroyed, it was the entire macrocosm of universe 7, which includes the living universe which iirc is infinite in size, the afterlife which is equal in size to the living universe, and the kaioshin realm, which idr if there where any statements about the size of the kaioshin realm but iirc i heard somewhere that the planet of the kais is the size of a galaxy but it’s been a while since i heard it and i don’t remember where i did. So that mean’s that goku and beerus clashing threatened to destroy at minimum 2 infinitely sized universes in their battle.
And B. What threatened the destruction of the universe was the shockwaves generated by goku and beerus clashing, where the majority of the energy/impact of the punches were absorbed by goku and beerus, so what was going to destroy the universe wasn’t goku or beerus’ attacks, but the residual energy that didn’t get absorbed by their bodies
I can say…. Savage hulk without Bruce holding his strength back should be a good match for his stronger forms, and titan hulk is well shit I can’t even begin to explain that
The ultimate lowball to an actual reasonable level. I always had an issue with "infinite speed" feats. For example: I've heard someone said Goku got infinite speed because he approached Zeno in an alternative timeline that has been erased with time being erased with it. Time still flows because he can approach Zeno and if it really didn't exist, then the gang is just they appear, and that's it, they're stuck until time is added back in.
Now THIS is the original and creative ideas I come to this channel for!
Right?! Never before seen! Who’d’ve think it!
Goku's ultra instinct offsets supe's speed advantage.
18:05 knew he wasn't going to use archie sonic
Even games version beats Goku Rouga is a fanboy.
Completely, forgot about instant transmission as long as he has your energy signature he can teleport from planet to planet.
And plane to plane
so a couple things, Goku, and super eventually learns to moderate his energy so that he can fight a full power without destroying the universe because that wasn’t fact concern made by the gods. So he can just destroy the universe by punching that is superman prime level of BS. speaking of Superman in the current comics and enemy threw them into a vortex and when he flew out, he said he is no longer bound by time. The writer said that it can current DC silver age and monitor. Superman is the same Superman he just put mental block up, so current comic Superman is silver Superman meta
Comment no 2: Goku vs Greek Kratos
See previous comment for more context.
TLDR: Kratos is physically comparable to Goku, and all of his hacks and weapons combined with his greater stamina would be more than enough to give him the edge in the fight.
Breakdown: Greek Kratos upscales everything that Norse Kratos is capable of (See previous comment) which would make him comparable to Goku in all physical statistics.
But Greek Kratos has so many more weapons, hacks and powers than his Norse equivalent. All of which would Give him the edge over Goku when combined with his stamina which far outclasses the saiyans.
Did
Rid rouga just disregard sonic battle and sonic frontiers?
(I mean, fair, super sonic 2 is a one game transformation, just like hyper sonic, but in frontiers sonic actually has hands)
Sure but 150 games and in 1 he has hands. I’m gonna put Goku’s life long history of Martial Arts training over Sonic’s couple self defense classes at the Y.
@@rougarabid 2, technically, but fair
@@rougarabid technically, the hands go farther than that (doesn't mean he's outskill goku)
in Sonic Eraser one of the moves is a punch (but the ramming into someone option is still there)
Sonic the Fighters exists, where sonic doesn't just spin attack someone to death (but the spin attack is still used)
Sonic Battle was already mentioned
Sonic 06 has him breakdance cool enough to make a tornado
Sonic Unleashed does give sonic some combat ability without his signature speed with the werehog form (but instead he becomes a stretchy strong werewolf hedgehog)
Does sword fighting help (Sonic and the Black Knight)?
Sonic Forces has him do a three piece combo on Zavok of all people
Sonic Frontiers was already mentioned.
Even in those games, the spin attack into someone really really fast is a primary attack.
Outside of those, he does have at least few projectile based attacks prior to frontiers: Sonic Wind in the SA2 rival fights, Shockwave attacks in Sonic Battle, and creating tornados since....SA2 again. Frontiers (ranged attacks and the parry) can be argued to be a power from cyber energy, so it's not standard.