EV Myths You Thought Were Facts
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
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Electric vehicles are taking the world by storm, sparking conversations and controversies alike. Are they the green champions of the road or hidden culprits of environmental harm? Can they truly replace the roar of petrol engines without missing a beat? And is our infrastructure ready to support this electric revolution, or will it buckle under the pressure?
In this video, we're plugging into the heart of these debates.
We'll explore what happens when innovation meets the open road, and whether the journey towards electric mobility is as smooth as the ride in an EV itself. Join me as we navigate through the electric landscape, separating fact from fiction with solid evidence and expert insights. It's time to discover the real story behind electric vehicles. Let's roll out!
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Bookmarks:
00:00 Intro
00:36 We are running out of critical minerals
01:27 EVs will end the weekend
02:24 Join me at Everything Electric Australia
02:36 EV batteries can't be recycled
03:49 EVs will crash the power grid
04:57 Mining for battery minerals will destroy the environment
The Engineering with Rosie team is:
Rosemary Barnes: Presenter, producer, writer
Javi Diez: Editor / javierdiezsuarez
Fatini Nur: Research and production assistant / fatinin
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Politicians don't say things that aren't true, do they? 😂
Politicians lie, don't they?
It a career pre-req for them
@@doriangray6985 I tell people that campaign promises aren't *promises*. At best they're opening offers in negotiations against the opposition.
Politicians never lie! Believe me, I'm a politician! :D
Fry, his face not that shocked.
I recently got an EV from BYD. Most of my friends and family called me crazy and stupid as they vomit upon me all the myths she’s talking about. They really believe in their hearts all these lies. My sister even told me never to park next to her car since my new car is due to explode any moment. She wants to protect her stinking ugly Toyota from burning up because of me.😮
Find a safe place and race them. 😊 Safely. That little experience makes people think again. EV acceleration is fuuuuuuuuuuun!
Yes I have heard all that rubbish when I first entered the EV world.
I saw them burn to. And not only tires.
"Where there's muck there's brass" or in other words where there's a free (or cheap) resource (eg dead batteries) there is money to be made.
Lithium doesn't smell.
The idea that batteries can't be recycled seems to stem from the fact that single cells and small battery packs in things like toys and power tools are difficult to recycle, economically. Especially if they're in a mix of things with single of few cells built in that has different battery chemistries in them, even worse if those things are mixed in with other garbage. Some sources even point to the low recycling rate caused by people keeping things like old phones even when they get new phones. It's a totally different situation with EV batteries, large amounts of only desirable materials, with the same, often known chemistry, that means much less resources are required to recycle than it takes to extract new materials. Mining represent a very dilute and mixed source in many cases.
One "argument" I haven't heard in a while is that EVs use mostly fossil fuels based on the idea is that any additional power draw comes from sources you can control, which means fossil fuels, in many cases. It used to be a very popular argument here in Sweden, "they" said it didn't matter that we had almost entirely fossil free power generation, as added power draw reduced our net export, and in essence that was compensated by more coal power generation in countries like Poland. There's partly valid reasoning there, but then again, that validity don't apply exclusively to EVs, and the fact that EVs are charged when they're not used and therefore more off-peak than on-peak.
Also refining and transport of fossil fuels require so much energy that the net increase in energy use when you forget about the energy in the refined fossil fuels is pretty small. I don't have any exact numbers, as it varies, but 2 kWh per liter of vehicle fuel is a common number. That means just producing and transporting fuels for ICE vehicles requires almost as much energy as equivalent EVs use for a given distance traveled, ergo, there won't be any big increase in energy demand from EVs. Where and when, and in what form that energy is will change, but the transition to EVs won't increase the energy demand much.
There's some idea floating around about that it will be impossible to build out transmission capacity for charging EVs in residential areas. As if residential EV charging was carried out at extreme rates, and I guess, very well synchronized. EVs alone will typically increase overall power demand by 10-20% in most countries, that process of replacing all ICE-vehicles on the roads will take decades, so, the increased demand from EV charging will be
Christ! You need to learn how to keep your comments miles shorter. Your narrative is totally lost due to your excessive, verbose rubbish.
I live off grid I have solar panels charging my batteries you have to put around 20-40% more into batteries than you get back out that ok using solar panels except you only get sun on sunny days from about 6 to sometimes 8or 9 hours a day like I said only on sunny days right now where I’m living in sunny California USA it’s been raining for the last couple of days there talking about rain for the next 10 days and rain for the next several weeks after that we use generators to charge our batteries right now mine are at 10.5 volts they are charging because an hour ago they were at 10.2 volts so even in the rain which is still coming down I’m getting some charge not enough to do much with I can charge my phone and tablet because they use a USB plug to charge them and I also have some usb lights usb only uses 3.7 volts at most which is less than 10 volts but it’s still bad for the batteries. So we will still be running the generator for probably 4-6 hours everyday. I know musk says you can get all the power you need to run your house in just a couple hours a day yea right we have around 25 solar panels I just bought a new 220 watt panel last mont that one along with the others is working like I said it’s still raining since I mentioned that I had 10.5 volts around 5 minutes ago it’s now at 10.6 volts. My inverter won’t turn on till the voltage goes up to at least 11 volts and really shouldn’t use it till it’s at least 12 volts. But everyone can still keep dreaming how their saving the world by wasting 20-40% of the power they’re using producing electricity to charge batteries and I here that if you don’t charge your EV at least once a week it will die because they have heaters and monitors that run all the time even when not being used and you can’t leave them just plugged in because they will over charge and go bad or worse but wishful thinking is good I guess but facts keep getting in the way
@@glenparker234
Some fossil fuel use is nothing compared to the full year.
Everything gets better, even the winters are warmer. 😊
Good comment 👍 😊
@@glenparker234EV’s can be left plugged in. Their motive batts won’t overcharge because the max charge % can be set in the dash screen interface. If not set the car will charge to 100% & then turn off the internal charger.
Agree some EV 12v system batts can go flat if the car is not driven or charged for long periods. Easily fixed by attaching a trickle charger on a timer to the 12v system batt &/or installing a bigger system battery.
I love the one that says that all the multistorey car parks will collapse and the roads disintegrate due to the increased weight of EVs.
Hi,k That is a myth about collapse but they may well collapse due to increased fire load and will change all fire regulations worldwide. Some European cities in Germany and they want to in Belgum have banned EV's from underground car parks. Luton airport is not the first building to suffer a collapse due to fire loading. It was only 4 years old. EV's are the way forward but they will make little if no difference as 90% approx of oil would still be needed for air travel and shipping and locomotives. We need to drive less and use public transport, fly less ,waste less recycle and do not litter a big problem,and plant trees. Currently that is the only realistic way forward. Oh yes and wars don't do the planet any good either.
And the latest that they go through crash barriers easily
Regarding the road will collapse thing, I guess those roads have already collapsed due to truck traffic. Any truck out there weights more than an EV car, and they do not have way more tires on the axels; I am thinking of the 1~3tons trucks. If you go with heavier trucks, roads will not exists at all then.
I do not think EVs cause more damage than other vehicles in the road.
All of them will have to be replaced :) That wont cost much, needs some new taxes for that one :p@@ginvr
I believe that EVs are approximately 25% heavier than petrol cars on average. If the car park is not built to cope with this, I don't want to use it!@beegdawg007
this one is easy to bust- "the EV's are poluting more with dust from breaking pads, because they are heavier"
meanwhile fossil fueled cars have also been getting bigger and heavier for years.
@@SousaphoneMusic Decades in my experience. Even the "full-sized" US "trucks" of about 40-50 years ago were modest, unlike today's behemoths. The process of "our new model has extra room" taken to the extreme.
Sad that the brake pads are broken.
Regen braking saves pads. False narrative.
@@Joe-hw4xq The answer is actually simpler than that. Brake pads and disc brakes require you to use them regularly to work well; they tend to develop a layer of rust that reduces functionality if they are not used often. As such, EVs tend to have mostly regenerative braking and won't want to have disc brakes as a backup... so they have drum brakes. Drum brakes also create brake dust - but on one hand it isn't used nearly as much -
One fact that is often 'forgotten' is that the refining of fossil fuels uses a lot of electrical power. Reduce fossil fuel use, leads to less electricity being used; so there is more available for EVs.
Not to mention the massive infrastructure for exploring amd extracting and transporting and refining and storing and transporting again then distributing. That is a lot of steel and concrete and other materials just to get the fuel into the car.
Nearly 30% of fuel is burned just transporting fuel around the planet. The electric grid runs less than 5% transportation and distribution loss. That means any fuel based solution starts with a 25% efficiency disadvantage before you even consider anything else.
Add 70% to that because thermodynamics says that an ICE is only around 25% efficient.@@5353Jumper
Politicians certainly can screw up this transition. AU replaced it head turd win a slightly less absurd one, while NZ just got 3. The only thing I hate about my EV is the lack of a spare tyre.
I have an old car with a full-size spare, and would love to get a full-size spare in the next one. As far as I have seen, NO new small cars have full-sized spares, and only a few have more that a "repair kit". EV or ICE, it makes no difference. If I drive in the Outback, which I do only occasionally, I consider the spare tyre to be a part of the life-saving equipment and supplies that I take along. Only once have I needed to use any of the spares I had - the points and associated capacitor of a motorbike. But I still keep carrying spares. BTW, in parts of Australia, every trip, using every form of propulsion, is taken with "range anxiety" in your mind.
I wish the high price was a myth too 😂
Greeting from Germany, keep it up
Used
@@rp9674new battery!
Model 3 prices are said to be below the national average new car price in the US. I can not speak for Germany.
With volume, prices are coming down. Also, remember that you will save money in running costs
@@danharold3087 As a rule of thumb the electric version of an ice car in germany is 2x. If yo do not drive a lot or cannot charge at home then you save money with an ice car. Cheapest is the dacia with about 23k€ without any extras. Good cars are 30-40k€.
I really like electric cars but the price tag is just too much for me. Maybe there are good used options in a few years. Right now it is Zoe for 11k€ used and the car really sucks...
It is only a matter of time before caravans and boat trailers get built on top of an ev battery with sufficient hardware that the car is only directing the caravan/trailer. The cars won't need to "pull" it at all.
It has already happened. A German company builds kits for semi-trailers which put solar panels on the roof and a battery pack and electric motors on the boggie. At least one major transport company in the UK has been running these for a few years (Eddie Stobbart). Also I have seen reviews of two camping trailers (Caravans) with solar panels, batteries, and motors. The Fully Charged channel which runs the Everything Electric Show that Rosie mentioned has covered them. It seems like and obvious way to go.
@@sadiqmohamed681 I hadn't heard that but it makes total sense. Why buy an overpowered car to tow occasionally?
@@aussie405 Exactly! Instead of needing a more powerful EV just because you sometimes tow a caravan, you have a powered caravan. The trailer might be more expensive, but the car is cheaper.
And BTW, back in the day, I used to occasionally tow boats and caravans with an Audi 100 5E, and it's fuel consumption would drop dramatically!
@@sadiqmohamed681 and as you need electricity to run things in the caravan...
@@sadiqmohamed681 EVs already have the power. They lack the energy to provide power for a long time. That will change and we will not need powered trailers costing as much as the car.
As EVs and solar both go up their S-curves, I can see a condition where EVs are mostly charged during the day, soaking up the extra PV electricity around mid-day.
Unfortunately I can't get to Everything Electric in Sydney this year. Did make it to Fully Charged last year. Still, very glad to know that you are involved.
Last year Robert Llewellyn included a stat in one of his videos on the battery waste from single use vapes. It was staggeringly large. So, the myth that EV batteries all going to landfill is further challenged by the number of non-EV batteries not being recycled.
In fact the challenge with battery recycling isn't EV or grid scale batteries at all, but the billions of them glued into things like disposable vapes, earbuds, and millions of other cheap electronic devices. Deposit-return is essential to make sure these goods end up separated for recycling and to make the economics of recycling work out. Large format batteries are much less of a problem- more goodies per tonne of battery pack than per tonne of disposable vape cartridges.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ideas and videos. The key thing is to keep the discussion going. I have been following EV technology for more than 30 years and have retired from the electric power industry with more than 30 years experience. The overall cost of electricity is in maintaining the system both physically and dynamically. The actual cost for power is the least expensive part of the formula. Although vehicle to grid is possible I fail to see the situation ever becoming economical for an individual to expend the life of their significant investment in exchange for the minimal rewards that a utility would pay them.
As far as grid capacity I have no doubt that the power industry will keep up with the demand as long as the politicians keep their distance. The grid is at more risk from bad politics than electric vehicles charging.
I suspect a solution will come from charging stations that recharge their own batteries at a controlled rate based on system costs and then charge vehicles out of the batteries at rates based on the cost of actual cost when the batteries were charged. This will allow competition between charging stations trying to get your business, not just making it available at highway costs to dependent customers. Restaurants, stores, and parking lots may even offer charging as a benefit or even as a loss leader to their patrons.
How about the EV myth that heavy EV's will collapse parking garages. And tear up roads. And particulates from their tires will be more polluting than steel mills.
1 and 2 are quite easy to answer. EVs are more or less 200 kg heavier than a comparable ICE car. That's only 3 European adults or 2 Americans. The effects are marginal.
Number 3 is also easy to answer. EVs are better in avoiding tire slippage. Less tire slippage, less particles.
Heard this one too numerous times. EVs apparantly are so heavy their tires wear out quicker too.
It's funny having people with large SUVs say that my EV sedan is so heavy, and express concern about the roads.
Yeah my Model Y is dwarfed at most intersections.
@@bearcubdaycare Yes, hypocrisy runs deep and dumb in anti-EV land.
A few other myths that have been thrown at me:
1. What about when your battery dies after two years?
2. You are going to destroy the roads with all of that weight!
🤣
200 km of range while towing! Whaaahahahahahaha.
There is an extended range option. Takes a few hundred kg off the towing weight but may suite some people. Towing horses with a LandCruiser sure got interesting with the fuel consumption but, yes, you could go further on the 150L. Don't know too many people who actually do this. Hear lots of people worried about others who might want to. Let's let sensible people choose the vehicle that will work for their actual needs, and allow others to pick and EV that will work. No point trashing progress because a small number of people will have to wait for their EV choices to improve.
@@user-xh9pt8zu2l Sure. But that’s not what’s happening with government policy.
That's a measly 125 miles! What a joke, 62.5 miles out and back?
EVs Towing a caravan, ….
pay even more extra to get a car with an oversized extended range for long distance travel,
then find out that it won’t do the range as advertised because of the weight you are towing,
then find out that all the EV charging points don’t accommodate any vehicle that is towing something,
so that you need to unhook the caravan elsewhere, and have to leave it parked up unattended while you go off and charge the car up,
to then have to come back and hook the caravan up again before continuing on,
[all of which you have to do do multiple times during your long distance journey].
So @@kirkjohnson6638 don't buy one. This technology is not ready for you. And it's very suitable for a lot of other people. They will do what they will do and you will do you. Just because one persons's needs do not fit does not mean the technology isn't going to work for the majority.
From my vantage point the argument is over... old ways are fighting the rear guard action and the new ways don't need to prove anything. As mentioned elsewhere my farm vehicle will go EV when a model is available to do the job. That's not going to stop all those other folk going EV sooner.
This is a very Australian based view on this subject. Europe goes from about 36°N to 62°N. Melbourne is at about 38°S and Northern Australia is about 11°S. So if we moved Europe to its equivalent southern latitudes it would be between mainland Australia and Antarctica. This means that solar power charging in the winter months is not great and that occurs just when everyone needs to heat their homes which, considering the push to go for electrically powered heat pumps instead of gas, means there will be severe strain on the electrical systems in Europe. You mentioned copper in the batteries but did not make a comment on the copper required by the motors and wiring in electric vehicles or the extra copper to increase the capacity of the supply grid. There is also a need for an increase in the supply of large transformers which currently have a long lead time. You also did not mention what the effect on an EV is of days or weeks of cloudy weather and temperatures close to 0°C on the charge in a stationary EV. Population of Europe is currently about 747.64 million, Australia is about 26 million. Close to 29 times more people in Europe than Australia. Lots of people in Europe will not have the type of home that can have their own solar power or even their own charging point and will have to use public chargers that currently do not exist in the necessary numbers. So the realities of EVs in Europe is not something that can be glossed over in a video commenting on the facts regarding EVs. Did you see the recent news of what was happening in the north of the USA when the weather was freezing?
True that solar is better in Australia than Europe, but the wind speeds in Europe are 2x what they are in Australia, meaning 8x greater production by identical windmills. So, wind will save the day in EU.
You would be surprised how many solar panels are installed in Sweden and Norway. It’s literally everywhere. Regarding cold and EVs. Norway has the most electric cars in the world. Ehm….
In Canada my neighbor has a heat pump. They burn wood all winter to keep the house warm. Cheaper to buy wood than the electricity. Kind regards.
@@lawrencehalpin6611 sorry, this was a comment to what?
@@Eddie_-_ The population density of Norway is less than 9 people per square km, that of the UK is 270, Germany, 239 and France 118. London has a bigger population than Norway and the UK has a population about 4 times that of Norway and Sweden combined. If you have lots of space it is easy to have lots of solar panels and you will need lots in winter when there is very little sunlight. Also if you have a government that subsidises the purchase of EVs to make them cheaper than ICE vehicles people will buy them. When the cost is well above that of a petrol or diesel vehicle and there is also a very poor second hand market for cheap EVs then there is no demand and the advantages of an EV over an ICE is gone. Even the cheaper running cost has been wiped out by the price of electricity compared to liquid fuel. Insurance companies are hammering EV owners because of high repair costs.
Great seeing you at EE yesterday!
Same here!
Great debunking, Rosie!
I have heard that utilities are able to use used car batteries for grid storage. Maybe this will also slow recycling?
Even _households_ are able to use EOL batteries for storage.
Just because they are only 80% (or whatever) doesn't mean they're not effective for fixed use.
Remember: Reduce *_reuse_* recycle...
_Much_ better to repurpose that battery and curtail the energy needed to recycle it, all while it does it's job, shifting renewable output to times of high demand or low production
Yes as it is already happening in the UK: old Renault Zoe and Tesla model 3 battery packs repurposed for battery storage (domestic or non-domestic).
You are so naive.
Repurposing is just another aspect of recycling.
This report feels like looking at a high gloss paint finish in the sun.
??
It is weapons grade optimism. Mining, especially underwater will always be a very big env. problem. Maybe in 10 years half of it might be true, might not. Hope she is right, at the same time.
hehe when has Landfills become a Myths.
@@JohnSmith-mk4nf You don't need to mine underwater for Lithium - it's in the seawater - it can be extracted and the water returned to the ocean.
@@TB-up4xi Interesting, current projects/trials I'm aware of use vehicles like combine harvesters on the sea bed. These suck in sediment for a number of metals, minerals, etc and spew out vast plumes of unwanted debris. Not good. Maybe lithium is different. What technology are you specifically talking about? I would be interested to know.
There is an Australian You Tuber who's sole mission is to spread EV Myths.
His favorite myth lately has been EV Fires. He was so convinced that the Luton Car Park Fire was caused by an EV, even after it was confirmed to be started by a diesel Range Rover, and that the adjacent car park where the EV chargers are was not involved at all.
In addition to recycling EV Batteries, they can have a long second life in stationary storage applications.
My 2014 Nissan Leaf (one of the first 700k EVs on Earth) is still going strong, and likely has another 5 years of battery life. At some point I may upgrade the battery to the 60KWH pack, and convert the old pack to stationary storage at home. It could be 25 years or more before that original pack goes off to the recycler.
Some people make hating EVs their personality for some reason.
@@That-Guy_ So True
The battery to grid technology is going to be huge. Even though the average vehicle is only driven 40 miles per day, range anxiety due to fearmongering has forced companies to increase battery size far beyond what’s needed. Once consumers realize they can charge those batteries during off-peak times then sell that power back to the grid for a profit the concern about switching to green energy is going to drop substantially. All it takes to see how much people love saving money on gas is driving past my local Sam’s Club gas station and seeing the dozens of cars waiting in line to save $.10 a gallon. Now imagine the average American Dad realizing he can actually MAKE money off his car!
Could work out rather expensive charging when the latest crime is criminals removing the copper charging cables and selling them for funds to keep their drug habit going
@@samball6019 There’s only a couple pounds of copper in a charger cable worth about $5. Although I’m sure a lot of addicts would still see that as worth the trouble I bet a big part of those crimes are committed by the same EV haters who vandalize random Teslas. I guess charger manufacturers will have to start putting a cut-resistant steel wire in the cables either way.
Our Tesla will be 10 years old next month. The battery is fine. I would happily take off tomorrow on our 1740 mi/2800 Km roadtrip to visit family.
I dare you. And do an honest video about it too.
@@JensSchraeder I’d be glad to. The car will make it, no problem. It’s made the trip 4 times, including last year. I just need next week off.
The longest trip I have taken in my Tesla was 1,988 mi/ 3,199 km round trip. The car was done charging before my family was ready to leave most of the time. best car I have ever owned.
That was a pretty optimistic review of the Ford f150. They're not selling well here in the states after the initial excitement died down. EVs have great potential for daily driving, but towing with them has apparently turned out to be a dismal experience - no range, endless charging. Most EV problems with cost and charging are probably fixable, eventually, but towing may not be one of them.
Marketing v1.0 to the "lifestyle" buyer was a bad idea. There are plenty of commercial users who tow a short, defined radius from their storage yard.
The lightning is a good truck but Ford ruined the reputation. Having the contractor problem was bad enough then 'fixing' by downgrade how much power you can put through it was a very bad look. People crawling in the wonderful frunk to unhook the 12V battery to reset the computer after a failed OTA was another one. Worst of all is the dealer markups and add ons.
I’m glad you paired up “There aren’t enough minerals for the batteries!” and “We aren’t recycling the batteries!” That particular absurdist contradiction is my favorite, too.
one of my favorite myths: Electronic cars can't drive when it's cold, so you also have to have a petrol car.
an F150 is a quarter of the cost of running an ICE ... show me the numbers, I'll get a beer
I just work out that my old diesel was 4.4X more expensive to run than my current EV. And I'm not on the cheapest overnight tariff.
This so much depends on where and when you charge. Everything from parity if you charge at some charging stations at the worst time to zero if you charge on you excess home solar. In the UK they have a system called octopus. People occasionally get paid for charging their cars. One can make any case you like.
charging at home you lucky bastard@@ianhamilton3113
My neighbour owns a Lightning! He can not tow a caravan 200kms as he only gets 200kms when he is empty! He loves his $150,000 lighting but it’s functionality is 25% of his ICE F150 that cost $50,000. Hence he drives his lightning around town and used his ICE F150 for pickup things!
@@alhumphreys5784 Does he drive at 100mph (160 kmph)?
To add a few anecdotal evidence to this.
I was one of the early adopters and bought the 2012 Model S, with the 85kwh battery.
After 11 years and 250,000 miles, the battery was as good as new (new was 240 miles, after a quarter million miles, it was 220 miles)
Replaced it last year with the new Model S, because, 1000hp, and 400miles range!!
I love my Model Ss...LoL
Second hand prices are affordable.@beegdawg007
Thanks Rosie, so many myths on evs debunked.
My concern is repairability. Yes EVs have less maintenance, but I worry I won’t be able to get parts or tools or information to fix it myself like I do my 15yo Mazda SUV with 175000 miles on it. I keep everything as long as possible and repair everything myself because I want to minimize waste and cost. No reason I can’t get this car to 250,000 miles or 20yrs old - I worry I couldn’t keep an EV going that long without significant expense (replacement battery)
Wow. So much great news here! We're all onboard with the transition to EVs now! You're an engineer, so naturally, you must be right! We all look forward to checking back with you in, say, 2-4 years on the anniversary of this uplifting video to confirm everything you've said here! It will be such a fun celebration! There are so many mean people out there right now who say that without at least quadrupling current electrical grid output, that there simply isn't the slightest possibility of being able to charge a one-for-one publiic transition from ICE vehicles to EVs, but thankfully you've put those concerns to rest! This transition is going to be much easier than anyone thought! Great tidbit, too, about scraping the oceans for lithium with no mention of environmental impact! Pfft, nothing to worry about, right? Interesting sidebar: by 2027, Ai will consume 25% of all electricity on the planet, but the bedazzling and uplifting information you've presented here has undoubtedly taken that into consideration With your level of quality engineering advice, the future looks pretty darned bright! And don't listen to those who call you a sellout to the greenwashing corporatists because those doubters are just jealous of your more liberal interpretation of physics. Carry on.
Fantastic
Catching fire is a common claim. Not a big thing but worth putting in the next one.
Yeah it looks like the fossil fuel fud machine has moved on from fires. For now.
It is tempting to make up some imaginary thing about EVs and watch it spread.
@@danharold3087 it's hard to even comprehend how many gasoline vehicles burn up every year.
And the people who get covered in fuel, that die from that as well.
Batteries are (understandably) built like a bank vault.
Not many people fall victim to a battery fire.
@@jimurrata6785 It seems that oil companies are pushing the fud harder every day and these guys just eat it up.
@@danharold3087 The whole MAGAtard "EV's and windmills are turning frogs gay" never fails to make me LoL.
@@danharold3087 My last comment was shadow banned by an AI nanny. 😅
Maybe a _little_ snarky but the trolls deserve it. 😉
I power my house with recycled Tesla model S batteries and solar - works Great
Right on the nose Rosie. Thanks again for clear and spotless information and analysis.
Those puns kept making me think of "Undecided with Matt Ferrell"
I'd be very interested in seeing Rosie and John Cadogan of Auto Expert go head-to-head.
It would be interesting, that's for sure
I wouldn’t want to see Rosie stoop so low as to even participate in anything with that arrogant car salesman!
He would wipe the floor with her for sure......
Cadogan has a brain, so it would be a totally unfair debate.
@@CharlesGregory It's impossible for left wing idealists to stoop, they already live face down in the gutter.
Rosie have a look at ( Patrick Boyle Electrify everything ) EV's great Idea but the biggest problem is insurance cost and also deprecation
"but the biggest problem is insurance cost and also deprecation" Lease or buy used and insurance is going up dramatically on ICE vehicles as well.
When Tesla is not cutting prices their depreciation is less than ICE. When Tesla is raising prices a 1 year old used can sell for more than it cost new.
The insurance cost thing needs to be investigated. In part they are charging more because they can. Some report on change when going from ICE to EVs. Others get took.
Deperciation is solely due to the falling price of new EVs. Buying an EV today is like buying a computer was 20 years ago when they were improving fast. Whenever you bought one and whatever you bought you knew you could get a better one cheaper next year. But that was part of the cost of getting a better machine than you had last year. And insurance premiums on EVs are falling rapidly as insurance companies get enough data to estimate their risk (insurance companies put their premiums way up when they can't judge what their exposure is, so new technology always suffers from this).
Thanks, keep up the good work with myth busting. Sadly there are are so many youtubers who can get cheap hits/likes by propagating the usual crap about batteries in landfill etc.
I worked most of my life in recycling and of course the batteries are way too valuable to landfill.
What would be the environmental impact of extracting the minerals from the sea. Surely this would be detrimental to marine life. Australia knows about this more than most with the issues around the GBR.
The truth and fiction around EVs is so confusing. I listen occasionally to two other UA-camrs and they certainly don’t present the same cheery outlook.
Thanks
Mining of everything is hard on the environment. Consider this though, iron ore mining.
Iron ore mining quite literally dwarfs ALL other types of mining.
They mine iron by taking entire mountains and turning them into huge gaping holes in the ground.
That destroys a LOT of habitat.
No one bats an eye.
This tells us that mining has become a political football used to try and attack things certain groups don't like.
Now remember, all fossil fuels are mined. Once the oil is gone those wells are often just abandoned.
Considering how much fossil fuels we currently use that's one hell of a lot of abandoned wells.
Care to guess how good that is for the environment?
You clearly have zero understanding of the amounts involved, go learn something before you embarrass yourself any further 🙄
@@fredbloggs5902 thank you for your belittling reply. You have shown us further evidence of why there exists a general dislike of people like you. Thanks again
@@RTC057 I’m not responsible for your profound ignorance 🙄
Peace @@fredbloggs5902 Yes the poster does not understand many things but we can help here.
For a start it's useful to compare extracting minerals from the ocean to extracting water. Sydney (sometimes) and many other places in the Middle East (every day) extract huge quantities of water with desalination plants. For a topical example we know the water supply to Gaza depended on desalination plants, and worked well enough when fuel was available.
My speculation is that there may be an opportunity to process the resulting brine for minerals, i.e., increase the products once the energy has been expended to concentrate the salts and harvest the pure water.
On a more general note the processing of sea water for minerals is likely to leave the bulk of the sea water unchanged and this will be returned to sender. Bad for any fish that gets past the inlet grates but otherwise pretty harmless compared to other extractive activities. And way less environment disruption compared to open cut coal mines which also threaten the ocean in some places.
Hi Rosie. Great content as usual. Another common myth in America is that taxpayers offset the cost of ev’s and that only benefits the rich elites who can afford them. I’m pretty sure government subsidizes lots of things like fossil fuels, food, education, defense.
Fossil fuel subsidies were $7 trillion globally in 2022. EV subsidies are a drop in the bucket. Also, since EVs will reduce climate change and pollution, the amount of money saved on climate disasters and health will much more than offset the EV subsidies.
In which century do you predict these mythical savings will occur.@@truhartwood3170
I believe your number is realistic but have not found a good source to cite. Can you help me with that?
@@truhartwood3170
Great video , please keep informing the mis-informed.
Thanks
How many people like me on a fixed wage ever afford an electric F15 lightning ford let alone pay the insurance on it
You wouldn’t have afforded a petrol one either, so what does being electric have to do with it?
Someone tried to convince me about number 5 a few hours ago. I knew it was wtong, but not everyone know the truth. About battery recycling, I thought they are still piling up scrap material for when they can recycle it. You corrected me on that. Thanks.
Yep, battery recycling is a huge start-up industry with about 80+ recycling companies world wide, all competing for batteries to recycle.
@@muskrat3291 Which need to be shipped how far ?
What about the Auto Repair Industry Problems with EV's. Insurance companies are becoming aware of the problem of repair. So Insurance costs are going up.
Auto Repair Problems or predatory practices is across the board no matter the drive chain. The thing that might still be a thing (until we get modular approach to battery cells) is the need to basically need a total car replacement if battery is compromised in a small accident. Insurance going up? Nobody said adjusting was going to be cheap, convenient, or easy. Try getting home/house insurance in Florida due to all the weather events. Brace yourself, because this tendency will increase elsewhere with time.
A good subject to explore. I would rephrase it how some companies are taking advantage of EV owners.
My insurance didn't change much when I got an EV
That's one reason Tesla is getting into the insurance business. Insurance works on risk mitigation. If they are unsure, the rates go up.
Tesla's share of the EV market is so high that it's hard to unpick their unique stubbornness and reluctance to deal with third-party repair. As bad as the legacy automakers are about that, Tesla's even worse and seems to want the Apple model.
Thank you Rosie.
I'm starting to encounter a problem on UA-cam where if I refute misinformation in peoples' comments by replying to them, and cite a source, my comment is deleted. I often use your channel as a source. This video in particular, today.
I'm glad to hear about the recycling percentage! That and using EVs as batteries for the grid could really be a benefit when you consider public transport vehicles too
Just the idea that a storm knocks out power, and you can power essential services (like refrigerators) from your vehicle, is a big improvement over spoiled food.
It would be good to see links to the data/reports used in this video. Some have no reference on the slide at all.
Google will show you everything you need.😊
@@Nikoo033 While that’s true, and no doubt Rosie’s figures are from reliable sources, “Google will show you everything” is the same response the BS propagators use, I’m sure we can do better!
Yes you are right, it needs that. I ran out of time to add them in the description like I normally do. I will get to it I promise!
Grids have computers using the electric grid as an internet cable today.
The ford lightning has a range of 200km ha ha ha Yes the wkend is fecked!
We can't extract lithium efficiently enough out of seawater to nake it viable so it doesn't matter how much is in the ocean. This is no different than the extraction of gold from seawater.
The F150 is sold at a loss and may well get canned before the end of the financial year. It will never be sold here. Also 200kn while towing isn't even far enough to get to my friend's place one the way to the unpowered property we camp at.
There is no guarantee of battery recycling. The problem isn't scale, it is that recycling isn't cost efficient compared to new mined materials.
I have spoken directly to leadership at an at scale energy company in Australia and they are adamant that not only is there not enough genrative capacity but basically all of the distribution infrastructure needs to be replaced to emable ubiquitous EV charging.
None of the EV manufacturers support vehicle to grid due to liability and insurance issues. Enabling this as a feature impacts battery life span and hence voids the warranty.
The mining and refining of minerals is a very dirty process performed in countries with very poor records all powered by fossil fuels. It all runs on diesel and brown coal. On average the CO2 break even point between an ICE and EV car in Australia is 150,000km assuming charging on grid. Solar improves that but that assumes the power used doesn't displace the use of that solar for other purposes and that you are not actually using the car day to day in the first place.
Buying an EV to replace an ICE to reduce the operational CO2 of a car you barely drive ensures you will never actually break even on the total lifetime CO2 of the vehicle.
Overall I think EVs are really cool and very nice vehicles but the tens of billions of dollars needed to make them widely viable in Australia is a poor case economically and environmentally.
Durability is also a concern as we drive.thr oldest cars on average of any developed country. There isn't enough charge/discharge cycles in a 10 year old EV battery to get them to the bottom half of the car market where the most polluting cars are. This is the biggest issue. These cars are essentially disposable.
You just repeated the myth about 150,000km. Rosie mentions the sort of correct figure (25k). Not set in stone either, mfg emissions can be controlled but you can’t drive an ICE without emissions.
That's BS about extracting it from seawater. There's an awful lot more lithium than gold in seawater. Every desalination plant in the world already concentrates it - further concentrating it to useful grade would cost less than double the current lithium price. In fact there are several new processes where their boosters (including Elon Musk) claim they can beat conventional lithium mining on price. Even if they don't, more expensive lithium would still leave EVs very viable - especially as extremely cheap sodium ion and other chemistries now look like sweeping up the stationary storage market (which is and always will be bigger than the EV one).
Whilst you make some valid points it does mainly rely on things that you say will happen but have not yet. It also fails to take into consideration human nature and behaviour as well as economics.
But then again, the myths centre on things that haven't happened. That's why they're myths
What specifically? Sorry but you don’t have an argument here.
@@williammeek4078 I'm not looking ofr an argument, a discussion is what is needed.
As I pointed out, there are some valid points. However, there are the vast economic issues, Here are a few but there are many, many more. How many people in the world can afford to equip their home with Solar panels and battery storage? What about the unsuitable climate areas? Roofs that don't face south here in the UK?
Electric Cars. Yes they work and for quite a number of people they are practical but for the majority they are not due to not being able to charge them at home. charging away from home is expensive so negates the cost saving and that is if you can find somewhere.The cost of repairs are very high, a faulty battery renders the vehicle economically unviable to repair. Insurance costs back this up.
The towing example is good one. Ford stated 200km (124 miles). Apart from the fact this is stupidly short range it does not include all the variables like, temprature, wind resistance and topography. Real world tests have proved these figures to be ideal yes but not even close to realistic.
I could go on..... So I will
The point is that in some circumstances there are very good reasons to go electric and I support that as weel as the use of renewables. The problem is that we are coming up with expensive and complicated solutions based around making money and not doing the simple cost effective stuff that will work whilst we iron the problems and deal with infrastructure issues.
A discussion, not an argument on solving these issues that is based on reality and not on skewed scientific paper results is what is needed.
This seems unlikely to happen
1:50 Rosie... 200km towing range is not going to take you on holidays.
Nowhere in Australia, could you drive in 200km stints and recharge at fast charge points to an interstate holiday without spending most of the holiday parked in a car park plugged in.
EVs make great sense replacing family vehicles on short haul day to day trips.
Trying to win over the skeptical public with facts like a 200km towing range just serves to show that it's a job still best suited to fossil fuel power.
6:04 How do you arrive at the 20,000km breakeven point on emissions,
I'd be interested to know?
Thanks
If you launch your boat into salt water just don't get your EV battery wet or it will catch fire
Same for your ICEV. In fact your ICEV is even more likely to catch fire.
they are finding.in the northern places the cold is cutting the charge life, and time to charge are making EV cars unpopular.
Yes. If we only get a million or more people working on battery tech we could solve this problem!
And that's why battery conditioning _before_ you hit the charger is _an actual thing_ built right in to almost every EV sold today!
I swear, you people are like a swarm of flies. 😘
although that may be the case, it doesn't negate from he fact that the cold will kill a battery on its own, hence why even ice vehicles need boost in the winter lol. also the fact that running your heat or ac will also kill the battery faster, compared to an ice that uses the heat in the engine to heat the vehicle and running ac has been proven to usea little more gas but no different then when you have the windows rolled down causing more drag.@@jimurrata6785
Yes, that's why there so many EVs in northern Europe, and why I drive one in Canada, where EV sales are also increasing🙃.
I wait zero minutes for charging, because I'm sleeping when it's happening.
If you drive more than 400km per day, I feel sorry for you!
People chose to switch from horses to ICE powered vehicles because the economic and environmental advantages were obvious. Not so with EVs, govts applying unrelenting pressure to force adoption. The push for EVs ain't gonna end well.
Like we were not pushed for 50 years to drive cleaner ICE engines? Wear seat belts. Yeah this is the very first time the government has chosen our automotive path.
Rosie, the hardest working Australian woman on UA-cam! Another awesome vid.
EVs Towing a caravan, ….
pay even more extra to get a car with an oversized extended range for long distance travel,
then find out that it won’t do the range as advertised because of the weight you are towing,
then find out that all the EV charging points don’t accommodate any vehicle that is towing something,
so that you need to unhook the caravan elsewhere, and have to leave it parked up unattended while you go off and charge the car up,
to then have to come back and hook the caravan up again before continuing on,
[all of which you have to do do multiple times during your long distance journey].
Sadly, a lot of this doesn't work well in northern Europe and North America. Cold weather equals range reduction and longer waiting at charging stations.
And on a sub zero winters morning, I would be a bit miffed if after an overnight charge, I went to get into my EV only to find the grid had sucked half of it back.
I live just on the edge of London U.K. I have a 9 pannel, 2kh solar array on my roof that on a good day in summer will generate about 7kw per sunny day, but in mid winter will make 250w for a few hours. Hardly the future.
You could ask people in Norway how they operate their EVs without issue.
And if your solar doesn’t cut it you can add more panels and add wind. But as far north as you are, you will probably always be reliant on the grid.
I live in Berkshire and have an east/west array of 14 panels totalling 5 kWh and on a poor day I get 3kWh and a good June day 32 kWh. So your panels must suck or they're on a North facing roof!
Been driving electric for 5 years now. No problems apart from ice during winter (same issues as gas cars but they heat up everything - once running, EV's don't) but I hear that might not be an issue much longer. Go EV! Fun driving, clean and less hassle (only thing that needs service are breaks).
Tesla is the best car company ever no maintenance no gas stations no oil changes no smog check no corrupt dealerships no lying salesman no catalytic converter
My favorite is "EVs take so long to charge."
I got my Nissan Leaf in 2011 and I've waited zero minutes for it to charge, because it charges when I'm sleeping.
My favourite is smug, self satisfied EV owners who think that everyone owns their own house and has a garage (or at least off street parking) to charge their EV in, and don't have to use scarce public chargers, that may or may not be working when they get there.....
@@peeemm2032 most workplaces have garages here, too, but that varies by locale I'm sure!
Also, simple outlets for cabin heating has been standard for many private parking lots for ages in winter climates.
But the best solution is the charging outlets in street lights that New York City are installing -- if every city could do that, it would go a long way!
I bet you love the 40 miles of range too.
@@JensSchraeder the 2011 is rated up to 90 miles and gets about 60, which is all I've ever needed from it. Obviously modern EVs can go much further if you need to, so that was an acceptable limit for me to get in early and cheap!
Here's a claim to "debunk", why are manufactures rolling back or halting EV production? Um, world wide yes the grid's can't cope. You don't like oil, but you're okay with mining? What is the cost of separation of battery materials? How much energy does it take?
GM & Ford are rolling back on EVs because:
1) They currently can’t make any money on them because they haven’t got good enough at making them yet.
2) Pouch cells are a fire risk - Elon publicly warned legacy auto not to use them years ago.
Oil production consumes energy and pollutes on production and consumption.
Cobalt is also used to make airbags in automobiles; catalysts for the petroleum and chemical industries;
yawn@@rp9674 thanks for the half hearted effort. Try answering all the comments. Do you even know how extensive the use of oil is? So aviation and shipping should switch "now"? The plastics industries? Synthetic textiles? The tires on your Tesla? What is sustainable, your EV that won't last 10yrs or my 80s car running on biofuel? Cobalt is used...chemical industries. Yes it's a chemical element and would get used in "chemical industries". "Engineering with Rosie", is she really an engineer? Seems doubtful based on the quality of the arguments.
@@fredbloggs5902 fail. You gave two of a multitude of manufacturers rolling back of stopping production. Perhaps the market does not want them? And how many EVs are made at a profit (exclusive of gov credit)? There no way in the world I could afford to buy an ev let alone insure one? If you really want to virtue signal and save the planet sell you car and ride a bicycle or walk.
@@rbowe6 Tesla’s revenue from credits is less than 2%.
After looking at all the pros and cons of various EV options, I am convinced that the best option for most people is a plug-in hybrid where most of your power comes from an electric utility, and you have a gasoline engine for those few long trips. With a pure EV, you have this big, expensive, heavy battery that you are always lugging around - even when you don't need it, which is most of the time.
1) With Plugin Hybrids, you basically just wear down your Battery very fast. So fast in fact, that it wont last beyond 300 000km/year. Since an EV has a multiple times the amount of expensive Battery, the battery is going to last longer. Also, you HAVE to charge everyday, while you can charge your average EV once a week.
2) The too small battery can is some cases cause engine weardown and worse fuel economy, especially if they want to use electric power as much as possible. Its going to happen that the ICE starts only for a few minutes to go full throttle to charge the battery to reach the last bit.
3) you add more points of failure
4) A PlugIn Hybrid costs almost as much as a comparable EV.
One issue: V2G is not going to happen and here is why.....People need their car to be used next day or on the weekend, so you hardly going to discharge it into the Grid. Current solar export per KWh will give you less then a quarter of what it costs you to import from the Grid. So why would you sent it into the Grid and then buy it back at 4 times the cost when you need it. Constant charge/discharge cycles reduce the life of your EV battery. So you are wearing out your EV battery a lot faster when discharging into the Grid.....who is going to pay for the wear and tear? Are the Grid Electricity Suppliers going to pay a certain percentage of the EV battery when it needs replacement? I don't think that will happen.
Australia can not keep homes comfortable...Queensland's state-owned power grid remotely turned down almost 170,000 air conditioners six times in the past two months as part of a scheme to protect the electricity network.
Don't you wish you had an EV with V2G, so you could run your AC at full power, and make money selling back to the grid at the same time hey.
@@SocialDownclimber how
@SocialDownclimber and how does the ev vehicle have any charge to drive anywhere the next day... for example.. I would love to go glamping 70km away with a ev f150 powering my camp for a weekend then when I go to leave I have 3km of range left 👎 awesome...
or I wake up to head to work unplug the ev from its plug on wall of house and get in car to find out that the house wanted its battery power and the car you need to drive to work and back home has 5km of range....yep that's going to be fun...
@@bingysbackyard Simple! The F150 comes with either a 98 kWh or 131 kWh battery. 70 km x 2 is a round trip of 140km which would take about 40-50 kWh. That leaves up to 50 or 80 kWh for your weekend camping. That's a lot until you plan to heat a sauna all weekend.
As for the V2G, the system is being designed so the EV owner can specify how much the grid can draw from the battery at any time and how much charge to ensure the battery contains when it's time to drive. It's brilliant. The EV owner gets to make money from their car/truck while it's parked.
@@tommclean7410 Great explainer for the perplexed! Perfectly answers the points my erstwhile questioner had. It seems like he genuinely doesn't know how his house is powered or how much energy it takes to do so. Maybe he still lives with his parents.
It is also fun to look back of myths that are no longer relevant: - "An EV is soo slow even the most basic petrol car has to wait at the traffic light" - Currently almost every EV is a 10 second car (Fast and the Furious reference). "Range is soo bad you can only use it in your own town" - This has shifted to being unable to drive for 1200 Km without adding going to a gas station (say the people that are probably not hypermiling).
Yes! the history of the old objections which have dropped by the wayside, one by one, is amusing to say the least.
EV caravans are also a weekender idea.
What about public transportation. When compared to electric individual or family vehicles, do they amount for the same level of pollution?
The problem is that traditional public transportation is really expensive, involves lots of "environmental assessment studies" (aka red tape), and takes forever to build. It's not a scalable solution for most locations
Public transportation is absolutely necessary, probably even more important than electric cars. Unfortunately, most individuals don't get much of a say in whether they can access reliable public transport or not, so EVs become the only green option for them. I would love to see more governments recognise this issue.
What about the truth that there isnt the grid capacity/ Load carying capacity in current city infrastructure or buildings.
Apart from paying a ridiculous high price for the EV, she expects we will all put in solar plus batteries.
It's the usual EV Fanboy BS of ignore common sense.
Charging is overwhelmingly done at night when there is plenty of spare capacity.
And we have 20 years to take care of any local bottlenecks.
Unless you are arguing that building more capacity is inherently impossible.
@@alanakafang6143amazing how you can ignore common sense while pretending to have it.
Cars spend 98% of the day parked, that means they don't need to fast charge all the time. The UK National Grid for example has said they already have sufficient off-peak capacity to deal with a change to EVs. The minority of people who want to charge at peak will be able to because they'll be statistically insignificant.
@@alanakafang6143 Yes, and that also needs to be replaced every 15 Years. But even that doesnt work in all of the high rise builds that have all electrical fit outs done to minimum spec. So no extra capacity for vehicle charging.
Thank you, great video. My favourite myths is: Solar panels will “use precious land field”.
The reality. Solar panels can be installed on roof top, so they do not need to be on land fields.
Also, nobody talk about the amount of land field wasted right now for bioethanol. Just in the EU we use about 177 000 KM2 to produce bioethanol to poor into petrol cars for E10 petrol. If we would burn this bioethanol in efficient power stations and all petrol car would be replaced by electric, this bioethanol could power all electric car for 6 month.
There was a report I saw previously that having solar on your roof in a sunny climate actually reduces the cooling needs because the sun hits the panels and doesn't conduct into the structure itself. The convection of air under the panels cools the panels and keeps the roof cool at the same time.
This is not a myth. In commercial Solar farms, the panels are indeed installed on land, not on roofs.
@@adfasfuiuiui1056 yes, there are a few land, and it seems to be you have right, until you put this into context. Could you check how much solar installed on land field in EU, and how it compares to bioethanol? possibly the ratio will be around 1:1000
@@BobHannent Yep, I can experience this since last summar.
@beegdawg007 Use. A. Folding. Solar. Panel. They are getting better every few years.
It may be slow, but it is a lot quicker than growing your next tank of petrol/diesel. I have been places where there were no friendly passers-by.
This is a disruptive change. But to say that at this early stage there are *insuperable* difficulties, is to not give credit to all the people working on the transition.
Hi Rosie. The EXOdrones hava a list,
Insurance,
Tire wear solely due to weight,
Fires (I know you already did this one)
Charging cost and availability, and
the old one range anxiety.
Great blog 👍
Great review Rosie. Although not a myth, I would also add that electric drivetrains require far less maintenance and have a much longer life than ICE ones, which means they create far less waste.
Besides all the myths you mentioned, it is funny to me that many of the detractors' arguments stem from comparing a +100-year old mature technology with little else to offer to one in its early stages. I guess people following that logic tell their kids not to try sports (or anything else for that matter) because they can't beat current professionals at the peak of their careers!
There are myths against, as well as pro electric cars. I am thinking of the notion that they will last longer and be more durable than ICE. In fact, they are scrapped for the slightest damage, mainly because any damage to the battery would be way too expensive to repair. The average lifetime of a car in the US is decreasing, not increasing. To be clear, I do not regard this as a show stopper, and we can, in my view, overcome this, but I dislike any evaluation which only shows one side of the ledger.
EVs lasting longer is not a myth. Granted, the data is mostly Teslas as that is the only high volume company with older EVs, but the older Teslas typically last 300,000 miles and newer ones are expected to last 500,000 miles.
The problem with cars being scrapped for what appears to be minor damage is with all new cars and not unique to EVs. It takes a major collision to affect the battery.
@@williammeek4078 Tesla is not the only EV company with older EVs. Nissan built a substantial number, whose batteries degraded and many are scrapped. You are however correct that batteries are now specced adequately to probably be sufficient to last the lifetime of the car. That does not help though if they are scrapped for relatively trivial damage. The present tendency to incorporate the battery into the structural integrity of the vehicle is going to make the problem worse.
@@davidmartin3947 scrapped for minor damage isn’t for the battery as they are well protected. That is a problem all new cars have.
@@williammeek4078 ?? the battery in a BEV is a multi thousand dollar component, and insurance companies are not going to fool around with attempted repairs. I can't imagine why you think this is a problem common to all cars, although to be sure the increasing installation of very large components in the sub frame etc is going to make scrappage rates higher. That tendency it pretty well led by Tesla.
Ultimately car manufacturers are not interested in having cars last much longer, they want us to buy a new car as often as possible.
According to my feed lately every electric car is going to burst into unstoppable flames. Weird that mine hasn't yet 😀
Just keep waiting.
Give it time 😂
@@ldnwholesale8552he will be waiting much longer than the owner of an ICEV.
@@robg521you ICEV is 30x more likely to catch fire.
@@williammeek4078
no worries, go ahead and get your EV charging point installed next to your front door [which is against the EV installation guidelines by the way] as a lot of people have been doing lately.
I’m sure everything will just fine and dandy. 👍🙂
Ps
Did you know that due to the fire risks the government office in charge of the British Parliament building in London, banned the Charging of EV vehicles on the premises 2 years ago.
We can’t have the seat of government put at risk now can we,
Interesting though is that it doesn’t seem matter about your House and you and your family who are living in it now does it, 🤔
And even if the myths were true, even if EVs have drawbacks...
That just means we gotta work on improving them. (Like we did with ICEs for the last 100 years...)
It's not like fossil fuels are an alternative we can run on forever.
Question; 30% efficiency is the normal quote for fuel use in ICE cars/trucks. However, does that include hauling the fuel by truck and trains to the fuel stations? Oil and gas heaters for home, same question. I suspect they are not.
No Richard. That "30%" is for a _good_ ICE power plant alone, but including the transmission and power delivery and rolling friction overheads. Turbo-diesels are a bit higher than normally-aspirated petrol, but have other issues. As you would expect, designs from back in the Vintage/Veteran/Classic eras do not do anywhere near as well.
All overheads from source to your tank adds about as much again aggregate pollution and CO2/NOx etc - depending a lot on where you live. Therefore the entire world ICE propulsion industry and use system would be getting ~15% efficiency from the energy coming out of a well. Then you should include the two single shots in the vehicle life - start of life and end of life energy use. Depending on the vehicle, and it's expected life, usage model, rate of consumables use, that would average to adding a fraction of a %. And then there is the unknowable possibility of crashes, blown engines, failed geartrains etc. For a whole population you can get indicative statistics, just be careful about the source.
Some naysayers inflate the numbers for EV SoL/EoL processing, even claiming that to be, at worst, near-equivalent to ICE fuel use. Almost the same has been said about electricity generation and delivery - which is now wildly variable. Both are a false claims, but I do not have any numbers to hand.
To get away from vehicles; yes diesels *can* get much higher efficiency; as a generator. They can manage a lower specific pollution too. But best results demand a big plant, running at a constant speed that is _exactly_ it's optimal gas flow, and lot of surrounding infrastructure, application of additives in the cycle like urine, and a staff on hand 24x7. Related plants run in big cargo ships.
On a related subject while I am on a roll, and just my opinion; having seen quite a few videos on converting an ICE car to EV, I don't think the rather poor optimisation possible in safely fitting all of the electric parts into shapes in the bodywork that were optimised for an ICE powerplant, exhaust and fuel tank makes for a good deal. If the car is highly regarded for some reason? Then yes, it is worth the effort on emotional grounds. But as a way to get into an EV on the cheap? I can't see the benefits justifying the cost, effort, *inefficiency,* maintainability or risk. Toyoda (former CEO of Toyota) pushes the idea, and I think that is just to convince people to buy his current ICE cars.
Possibly not, but then the approx 90% efficiency quoted for EVs doesn't include the efficiency of the generating source either. Some examples:--
Solar PV 22% efficient,
Wind turbine 30 to 35% efficient,
Coal thermal power station 33% efficient,
OC Gas turbine 38% efficient,
CC Gas turbine 58% efficient.
BTW, the well to tank process for petroleum fuels is about 80 to 85% efficient.
@@peeemm2032 my solar panels are all used; couldn't afford new ones or powerful panels. i have checked them and mostly i get about 50% under average conditions.
17 panels averaging 260w and only get about 1600w out of them in summer. rest of the year i get almost nothing.
@@richardservatius5405 you may be confusing efficiency with rated output. When I say solar panels are 22% efficient, it means that when new, they convert 22% of the energy in sunlight falling on them to electrical energy. Part of the reason for this is that they only convert a small part of the frequency spectrum of sunlight....
I think what you're saying is that you've measured your panels, and at best, you're getting 50% of their rated output? This is not their efficiency, although some people seem to call it that.
The rated output is a measure of how much electrical power your panels would put out when new, under ideal conditions (sun directly overhead, no clouds or shading etc.) when tested in a lab., and even when new they probably wouldn't put out 100% of their rated output most of the time (if ever). Older panels were also less efficient when new than new panels are now.
Solar panels also deteriorate at something like 1% to 2% per year, so if your panels are only putting out 50% of their rated output on the best days, it could mean that they're working at closer to 11% efficiency than 22%.......
Not a single EV survived our last Cold Snap of -50°C neither did the Chargers, they crashed at apx. -30°C They need to come out with a Cold Climate Package EV for places like Canada 🇨🇦
Blatant nonsense. You need to stop being so gullible.
I guess the only ones that did survive were EV owners making UA-cam videos showing them driving and charging their EVs in those temperatures.
Well they do for the wealthy because their EV is parked in the insulated garage plugged and with the battery set to pre heat for cold weather. The rest of the peasants can walk or catch public transport. 100% EV's mean a huge part of the population have to give up driving cars... but they also vote! Humm sounds like a future conundrum.
Can you explain how EVs have comfortably survived a decade of winters in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada, etc. but for some reason you think "not a single EV" can survive that weather?
Norway, and all of Scandinavia says Hi!
i think we also should have a look at the impact of maintenance of an ICE vs EV propulsion. as the degradation of the efficiency of an EV vs an ICE engine. second any polution generated by an eV is done by the power generator which has more close monitoring of its efficiency during generation than the power conversion done in an ICE when it is used.
and second the polution by an ICE is highest with variing loads like driving in the city where you do not want it.
There is no EV efficiency degradation. Reduction of battery capacity is not efficiency degradation.
well the degredation i mean the overall degredation. with an electric engine these are limited to ware and tear of the barings (which is similar one would have for an ICE. and an dICE has on top of that the wear of way more moving parts impacting teh overall efficiency.
true the batery degredaiton has no impact on efficinecy only on the storage capacity of the energy an ICE equivalent would be a very small whole in the gas tank ;-) @@rogerphelps9939
EVs (cars) don't reduce congestion - may even make it worse as driving is cheaper.
I love it when these myths get debunked.
If you want the roar of the gas engine, just fix a loudspeaker exhaust system for a pipe.
Harley Davidson did this 😂
@@pixelfairy
Yes ar. 😂😂😂
Battery recycling… at the moment it cost about £28 to recoup about £5 worth of materials out of the old EV batteries. The only reason some companies are doing it is because they are being subsidised by the government using public money, otherwise they would be running at a loss and would go out of business.
The governments are gambling that the costs of recycling will become cheaper in the future so it will become economically viable when the subsidies disappear.
Thank goodness governments don't subsidise the massively larger oil indust… What?! They do? Even after more than a century, big oil still can't stand on its own two feet? Good job we're coming up with alternatives
I've no problem with public money being used to help the environment. Also, an environmental tax should also be levied on EV companies to fund the recycling.
@@adfasfuiuiui1056 Sure, just do not tell that recycling is an easy and obvious proposition
Everything’s rosy. Yay…we can skip off into the sunset.
Great video Rosie. I'd suggest that you put a lil more effort into citations for the facts you present though. I would also be very interested in the source of these myths, but I think that would take a lot more research!
Looks like politicians and engineers have something in common.
The oil industry is like maffia, countries around the world want to diminish their power.
Some can see past the FUD oil companies are using to defend their castle.
@@danharold3087 ever heard of confirmation bias?
@@fknid Best to start with bias. While truth itself is objective and unbiased, our perception and interpretation of it can be highly influenced by various biases, even a "bias towards the truth." This leads to Truth bias. "Truth Bias" can be a tricky concept, as truth itself is objective and unbiased. However, our interpretation and pursuit of truth can definitely be influenced by confirmation bias, leading to problematic outcomes.
Generally when an issue is polarizing there is confirmation bias on all sides. The more entrenched, close minded, people become the less the are willing to objectively look at evidence that does not support their case. Confirmation bias is pervasive and ubiquitous, affecting everyone to some degree. It's an inherent part of the human cognitive process, influencing how we perceive and interpret information., affecting everyone to some degree. This makes it a complex issue to address. Effectively managing confirmation bias can be challenging, and few people have all the necessary tools readily available. Approaching confirmation bias with an open mind is crucial for navigating the complex landscapes of information and overcoming its potential pitfalls.
@@danharold3087 tl;dr
At the first Everything Electric Show (it was called the Fully Charged Show then, and you can find the panel discussion on their channel) the guy from the UK National Grid whose JOB it is to keep track of trends and predict FUTURE DEMAND, said that it would not be a problem even if the did not build more capacity. There is an ongoing reduction in power demand due to things like fitting LED lighting in offices and factories. The cost is now nearly the same. I replaced the fluorescent strip in my kitchen for an LED with the same light output but with less than 20% of the power consumption (6.8W v 38W) but at about the same price. I bought it from a supplier who supply almost exclusively to the commercial market, so I was paying a one off price for an item they were quoting prices for 1,000s!
The same thing is true of EVs and buses. BYD have partnered with Dennis in the UK, and are producing buses and trucks by the 100. The National Grid love it because they are doing deals with the fleet operators, who get cheap power at night when they are charging, and sell it back to them at peak times during the day. It irons out the peaks, lets them use all the wind and hydro during the night, and they can closed all the coal stations.
Hi, but we need proper reliable batteries and Lithium batteries are no good and have been causing fires for many years even prior to EV's . We have now had 3 London buses catch fire, these are not very old either. There is a big problem We also do not know how these vehicles will fare when they are 10-15-20 years old.
' it would not be a problem even if the did not build more capacity' But they are to replace CO3 emitters., and it ain't where the old capacity is. It is mostly going to be stuck out in the North Sea, and needs getting ashore, then to where it is needed. That means loads of long distance transmission lines, running where folk object (rightly in my view) to them. So it ain't happening at anything like the rate needed for decarbonisation. Transmitting electricity from north sea wind turbines ashore as hydrogen then pumping it to where it is needed can help, which is why just about every country in Europe is investing in hydrogen pipeline networks and NG pipe conversions.
@@davidmartin3947 Have you not heard? Hydrogen is not going to do it. The cost is too high to make it economical other than for providing fuel cell range extenders for boats and long distance trucks. Converting electricity to hydrogen would kill the economics of offshore wind, compared with transmission lines. Did you know that there is an HVDC line from Norway to England under the North Sea? And from Denmark to England? And they are about to turn on one from Orkney to Scotland. Hydrogen is going to be a specialist product (steel, fuel cells) for some time.
@@sadiqmohamed681 You are presenting your opinion as incontroversible fact.
I am perfectly aware of the info bits of what you say. You do not seem to be aware that one hydrogen pipeline can transport the same power as several electric cables, and that NG pipelines are to be converted. Aside from that, the only practical way of taking power from the increasing number of floating turbines in deep water that will be needed is as hydrogen by tanker.
That is why all the experts in charge are intending to use hydrogen.
@@sadiqmohamed681 As of 20.04.2023 per Clean Wire: ' Nine European gas transmission grid operators have agreed to construct a pipeline network in the North Sea to transport hydrogen made in offshore wind farms,'
Those who are professional engaged in getting the power from the North Sea, and those who fund them, do not seem to be aware of the 'facts' you imagine, and think hydrogen from power at sea will work just fine, and economically.
What I would love to see is the psychology of people who sit in chat online to be so hardcore against the thing in the video. I get trolls. But I *think* some of these people are really opposed to EVs, Solar, Wind, Storage and are yelling at people in chat because they don't agree.
It's a cult.
We're undermining their religion by just making it work, regardless their prostrations
The new paradigm is here with or without them.
It’s not the “myths” that are the problem, it’s the cost and inconvenience. You can’t have high priced inconvenient to use products and expect to appeal to the masses. Either substantially lower the cost or build up the infrastructure and “myths” videos won’t be necessary.
I'd like to know more about how you arrived at the breakeven distance for CO2 emission for an EV over an ICE vehicle of 20,000km?
I've done some calculations comparing a Tesla Model 3, with a Mazda 3, and found a breakeven distance for CO2 of about 105,000km, at last year's NGA of 0.73kg CO2 per kWh.
That's quite a bit different to 20,000km?
Are you including oil mining emissions for the Mazda 3?
@@jamesphillips2285 yes - I'm using the emission factor for "automotive gasoline/petrol" from the Australian National Greenhouse Accounts Factors document from August 2023, including scope 3 emissions, which should be all upstream indirect emissions, including exploration, extraction, refining, and transport. It comes out to 2.907kg of CO2 per litre.
In case you were going to ask, I'm also using the NGA emission intensity for the grid, also including scope 3 emissions from the same document (0.73kg CO2/kwh) 😁
What is powering the Power Stations, that supply the Electricity to the Natural gas/coal other, I know in china is ALL COAL, so I doubt an EV is better than an ICE CAR :)
@peeemm2032 gotta understand, people are gettin' pretty desperate for finding EV promotional points. They gotta scrape any reasoning they can find from the bottom of the sewers
My back of the napkin math doesn't line up with your numbers at all. Even using your CO2 numbers I got much better numbers.
Even with the better MPG (or liters per 100km? idk how Australia does it) of my car, it still breaks even after around 40,000km using your CO2 per kwh and CO2 per liter numbers. I found a good Reuters article (comparing a model 3 with a toyota corolla) that seems to line up with what I calculated and they say on a grid with coal only power it takes around 78,000 miles and with all hydro power it takes 8,400 miles (on the average for the US grid they said 13,500 miles which is probably where the 20,000km number she quoted comes from, and I'd say it checks out).
Did you swap a multiply for a divide somewhere? I get your numbers if I multiply miles per kwh instead of divide
87% of electricity comes from coal fired power stations in Australia....
Still cleanet
Source? I heard a lot has changed in the last couple of years and fossil fuels are now under 70%?
That right. Not to mention that coal is mined by coal miners. Whereas Cobalt is mined by women and children in the Congo. This whole thing smells like propaganda.
You’re sadly out of date.
Fossil fuels contributed 68% of total electricity generation in 2022, including coal (47%), gas (19%) and oil (2%). Coal's share of electricity generation has declined from 83% in 1999-00 while the shares of natural gas and renewables has increased. Renewables contributed 32% of total electricity generation in 2022.
Doesn't matter if it's 100%, EVs are still cleaner. Coal power plants burn a lot hotter than a combustion engine, therefore they are more efficient and burn fuel more completely, which means less pollution.
Rosie, with all respect.
In UK average kWh cost is 0.34gbp! At this rate Tesla Model S 2020 model cost more to drive than any other similar size car! Additionally at -15*C on board computer starts at 230miles full charge range... and after 95miles you are stuck on the side of the road with 0% battery!! On top of that, average Toyota Prius, most popular TAXI in UK, needs new battery every 8 years, and it is hybrid! There is very little change that any battery will hold any sensible charge after this period... uff maybe if perfect California climate... but in countries with seasons, +40 summer and -20 winter (Germany, Poland, Sweden, most of Europe)... 8 years is a dream!
Meanwhile old tested veggie oil is completely forgotten!!
It is 100% green-eco, locally grown, and with used-oil recycled option even +100% eco!!
Reliable engines with +500k mile lifespan. No toxic waste. No mining. No toxic fires which cannot be extinguished!
And with current cut on farming in europe... more land could be turned into CO2 catching land growing rapeseed gress!!
And yes! This is existing technology, with no need for research nor new infrastructure. Old cars can be easily converted, most dont need any conversions (driving on veggie oil is legal in UK!). Accidental spillage... you even dont need to wipe it :D
And from average hectare you can produce 1650l of rapeseed oil of which 150l will be used be a tractor and processing generator... giving you 1500l of rapeseed oil per hectare! You can cook on it, use it as a lube, massage oil... then put in your car and drive.
Even with whole gov support EV make no economical sense! If not because of rising taxes on fuels, banned entries to cities, banned sales of new engines and benefits for EV users... EV would be as rare as Gwiz or Geo Prizm ;)
You go girl, just keep drinking that EV Cool Aid ...
Just ramp up more mining! Yeah, that's the way to go green.
That is more green than continuously extracting consumable resources like oil.
EV’s are doing so well that manufacturers in the States are shutting down production.
Yes there is a myth that is easily busted !
pausing production, perhaps, to balance supply and demand, but the sales of EVs is growing sharply
@@clausbecker9350 Nope, Ford and I do believe GM as well is shutting down production because of the loss of profits on these vehicles. Toyota won’t even consider making an EV, I think they do hybrid but not EV’s.
@@richvail7551 Toyota is making an EV, the bz4X, but it's yet another midsize CUV that doesn't stand out from all the rest of the midsize EV CUVs and rife with dumb decisions like using wheel bolts when every other car Toyota's ever made had studs and lugnuts. First EV, recall right out of the starting gate for something that has nothing to do with electrification.
@@nlpnt Exactly, there’s many issues and some are electric and some aren’t. Add it all up and it’s a paperweight that dealers have to try and sell. Time will tell, but everything I see points to an extreme slowdown or a full stop of manufacturing EV’s
Great video Rosie!
Did Ford just stop production of the EV version of the F150?
The Lightning?
They claim 'supply chain problems' but there's no shortage of outstanding deposits for them.
@@jimurrata6785 ok - wondered how much truth there was in the story
@@chairmakerPete I'm no expert, but that's what I read.
I'm in construction and know a couple of guys that drive them.
They love the power and they love the fact that no matter where, they can run their tools from the inverters.
@@jimurrata6785 if these F150 EV trucks do work then that's a game-changer for dependency on oil for many nations. If they can please construction guys, then that's about as tough a test as it gets 😂
Saudi / Russia / Iran must be quaking in her boots at the loss of money and influence that's coming!
@@chairmakerPete The Saudis are trying to get out ahead of the battery revolution (and they have the cash to do it) unlike Ruzzia and Iran.
The Lighting is a good chunk of change for a work truck, but nothing like the LTZ/Platinums I see posing on the job sites!
I remember buying a F-250 HD in '87 for 20k cash out the door. 🤯
Times have changed.