Can You Run a Grid on 100% Wind + Solar? South Australia Shows Us How
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Welcome to South Australia, a place where the winds of change are quite literal and the sun doesn’t just warm our homes but also powers them. I recorded this video in beautiful Adelaide when I visited recently, because South Australia is leading the world in several key aspects of the energy transition. South Australia has gone from a coal powered electricity grid with virtually no renewables in 2008 to 70% renewables with zero coal power plants today, a mere 15 years later. And, they’ve done it the hard way, with none of the "easy" clean energy sources (hydro, geothermal, nuclear). They've done it with variable renewables wind and solar.
If you look at any of the large net zero scenarios you will see that the bulk of the future world’s electricity generation is expected to come from wind and solar. It is simply not possible to expand hydro everywhere so that each country can follow Iceland or Norway’s lead. Geothermal, biomass and nuclear each have their own issues with location, scalability and cost standing in their way. So the challenges that South Australia is overcoming as it pushes towards 100% renewable electricity are really blazing a trail that other countries are going to end up following.
So, what does it mean to operate an energy grid dominated by variable renewables and with minimal connections to other grids? What are the challenges and the innovations emerging from such a unique energy ecosystem? Today, we will navigate through these nuances, unravel the intricacies of South Australia’s energy transition, and explore how this region is setting precedents and what it implies for the global energy narrative. Let’s take a look in depth, starting with how South Australia has gotten to where it is today.
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Bookmarks:
00:00 Intro
01:00 100% renewables around the world
03:31 History of South Australia's energy transition
05:34 Challenges and solutions in a variable renewable grid
06:29 Grid scale batteries
07:05 Interconnectors & transmission
09:13 Synchronous condensers and grid forming inverters
10:50 Rooftop solar, household batteries and V2G
Sources:
www.researchgate.net/figure/O...
aemo.com.au/
reneweconomy.com.au/last-coal...
www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files...
mcannonbrookes/st...
www.projectenergyconnect.com....
goyderenergy.com.au/
www.electranet.com.au/wp-cont...
www.electranet.com.au/south-a...
www.electranet.com.au/wp-cont...
The Engineering with Rosie team is:
Rosemary Barnes: presenter, producer, writer
Javi Diez: editor www.linkedin.com/in/javierdie... - Наука та технологія
Hi Rosie! Can you please do a video on how synchronous condensers and grid forming inverters work?
A breakdown of grid-forming vs. grid-following might also be useful.
Yes. As we transition to a new, modern grid, this will be very important to understand. @@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt
Yes, let me second this. Digging into the technology so that more people are familiar with it will help them accept it as practical.
@@BillMSmith Very true!
I have no idea what this is, so yes it would be an informing video!
Great video, Rosie. Like reading a short version of an engineering report.
Just a minor correction/update: Denmark now also has a 700 MW interconnector to The Netherlands, and the Viking Link interconnector to the UK is coming online at the end of 2023.
One small correction. Denmark is interconnected with Germany, Sweden, Norway as said in the video AND the Netherlands!
Thanks for the info. This is more of an addition than a correction though.
there's new interconnectors every time you look around Europe.
And the UK. Technicality its normal operation from the end of this year but testing has already completed.
@@alanhat5252 this one is not really new, started operations 2019 🙂
@@adon8672 well, what I heard was ”there are three interconnections in operation” and the correct info is four interconnections! Additional info would be ”and a fifth will come on line soon between Denmark and Great Britain” 🙂
We were recently able to install a large solar/battery system on the south coast of SA.
I wasn't sure how good it would be, but now I find we use next to no grid energy, while exporting about 80% of the power the panels generate.
All this and no risk of a blackout. 😊
Now you need to buy an EV….free fuel!
How large is large? Also, what brand did you go with? Ta
@@Cant_prove_god On one hand I would love an EV, but on the other hand they are still difficult to get in Australia, and we don't drive much. If I buy an EV now, there would be one less for people who do a lot of driving.
Hope they will be more common soon.
@@Ian-qe5ch 32 Trina Vertex S 415w for a total of 13.25 kW, a Fronius Primo 10.0 GEN 24 inverter, and a BYD Battery Box HVM 22.08Kw.
Organised through Solar Quotes. Hope this helps.
@@martythemartian99 Indeed it does, thanks Marty
Thanks, Rosie. These have been a great sequence of explainer and documentary videos. I love them.
Such a good channel, thanks for the great work and interesting insights Rosie
You rippa! What an awesome, detailed technical video with no BS. Well done!
Very cool indeed. It's great to see that it's progressed so far somewhere.
Hi 👋 Rosie
I stumbled on your channel last night and watched a couple of videos, very informative and explain things that people can understand in I simple way
Keep up the good work and way to go South Australia
I'm from Denmark - the home of modern wind mills. I'm puzzled that when discussing the use of renewable wind technology there seems to be a lot of opposition coming from especially Americans claiming that modern windmills are not economically sustainable, kills birds, and spreads wing micro plastics, etc. In Denmark we have a long history of putting up windmills and in recent years, mostly big sea windmills, and as far as I know modern windmills have a lifespan of 20+ years but pays itself in about 6-12 months so it is a good investment. Rosie, it would be great with a video on windmill sustainability addressing these points.
Yes that would be interesting.
The easy explanation is that roughly half of Americans are crazy. A slightly better explanation is that America has a large fossil fuel industry, and vested interests have engaged in a relentless public relations and propaganda campaign against renewable energy.
In favor of renewable energy in America is the fact that it's attractive from the point of view of cost, and most Americans want it.
wind turbines
The problem is, a video here is preaching to the choir. American resistance to wind is coming from two quarters… an alliance of right wing media and fossil industry propaganda, and a 20th century environmentalism model grounded in opposing EVERYTHING. The propaganda side skillfully dresses itself in the language of the environmentalists - “OMG wind turbines kill birds!”, “What about child slave labor mining cobalt for the batteries?”, etc. They’re also adept at formenting local NIMBY resistance using shell groups that work for the fossil industry, which provide money, organization, and misinformation to conservative-leaning locals. It doesn’t take a lot of angry activists to flood a zoning meeting or whatever.
I try to be positive about it. The economics of renewables are so powerful that fossil fuel is fighting just to survive, and every day more people understand the importance of getting off fossil fuel - and more angry reactionaries die of old age.
The problem is 46.8% of Americans have shit for brains.
Great video, glad to have the opportunity to hear you talk.
For me living in SA during the 2016 blackout was a turning point to prepare for off-grid living in suburbia. Recently came the Covid hard lock downs and I was more prepared than I would have been!
A first time viewer from the US. With a relatively new rooftop solar here in New Jersey, a EE degree, and an interest in EVs your channels sounds like fun.
they definitely are fun, reliable information too.
Agree with Alan Hat, this channel is very straight up, fact-based and great content with a creator who knows her subject matter well. Won’t disappoint!
Can't wait for upcoming vehicle to grid video, so much potential to contribute to the solution!
Cool! I'm super excited too. Great link to send to sceptics. Thanks a lot!
Thank you for giving us the history of renewables in South Australia! I'll be using this in class.
An informative and engaging report. Thanks
Great video! I am a proud South Australian who got roof top solar waaaay back in 2008. It cost a bloody fortune but I haven't had an electricity bill since!
Since then I've ripped out my gas hot water and installed a solar evacuated tube hot water system. Then I dumped my gas furnace and replaced that with a ducted reverse cycle air conditioning unit.
I still have a tiny gas bill as we have yet to replace our gas stove and oven.
I can't wait to get a Tesla power wall and Model 3 one day!
It can be done!
Stop it, Stop using oil and gas. I am not there yet, but I have the same plan as you.
Kudos to u bro
Gas is slowly converting to biogas which does dump CO₂ into the air but it's recycled CO₂ not new CO₂ To my mind domestic cooking with biogas isn't a major issue.
As long as cost and economics don't matter, almost anything is possible. Most people care more about those two items.
ROI counts and that's why it makes sense. Anyone who can afford the initial outlay would have to be brain dead not to get solar panels at a minimum. As for the solar hot water and heat pump, it will take a few years to pay off, but I am willing to push for the greater good. I have to say, I really don't mind the lack of power bills in the meantime.
I think we all should do what we can, even if it's only recycling your cans and bottles. @@dzcav3
Hi Rosie That was a fascinating & informative overview of the energy transition in South Australia - especially for me as a Brit. Thank you. 👏👏
Thanks for the update from Adelaide. Wow, South Australia is leading the way!
Yes, leading the way in the most expensive electricity in the country, wrecking businesses and pushing families into poverty.
I lived through the Black-outs in Outback South Australia. We now have the most robust energy delivery system thanks in part to the Hornsdale Battery and Sheep loads of wind.
Awesome video.
How do your electricity rates compare to 2007, before widespread wind and solar?
And the most expensive power in Australia which is amplifying and reinforcing social inequality
I do Agree. We pay more /Kw than almost anywhere in the world.@@joshs470
@@dzcav3
Unaffordable now.
Very interesting overview. It would be great to see recent LCOE cost numbers in Australia for these technologies. I waited to install solar + batteries at our house until the installation cost plummeted and the price of grid power shot up, and the ROI was clear. When batteries get cheap enough and time-of-use pricing gets savvy enough, no one will be willing to pay more for technology that pollutes more.
I was the same. When the cost of a 6.6kW solar install got down to about $6500 it made sense. The payback period was around 4-5 years. I priced a battery solution and it was north of $20k and not worth it at that time. It would have taken me close to 20 years to recoup the money, by which time the batteries would probably be knackered.
@@adam872 which battery technologies did you look at? I expect all the vendors are pushing LiFePO₄ but lead-acid, flow & NiFe are also readily available. Lead-acid is cheap but 20 years is an unusually: long lifespan, they'll need automatic watering & discharge switched off really early to last that long.
The next oldest is NiFe, they have a totally safe electrolyte (potash), they're rugged, reliable, almost indestructible (there's 90 year old packs around) & repairable if you can find a technician, but they're as big as lead-acid & they don't absorb all the supplied energy.
Flow batteries are getting cheaper & they seem to be repairable so might last forever.
You may have found others?
I did similar. Installed a 6.5kw solar array but the battery price was not worth it. Instead I just installed a timer, for $200, so the hot water tank could only heat between 11am and 3 pm. Interestingly a Tesla power wall has a wholesale price of $12,900 but it only has $2000 of batteries in it, even with the high price of lithium. Prices for home batteries can come down a long, long way. As manufacturing scales up, more mines come on line and refining becomes more efficient battery prices will plummet.
@@markumbers5362I also think we need developments in battery technology. I'm not convinced that lithium ion is the long term answer in terms of energy density or cost.
@@adam872 big advances going on everywhere
Love your positive upbeat attitude and of course the pertenant information.
Thank you, Rosie. It is good to hear good news. Sheila Mink in New Mexico, USA
Hey Rosie just stumbled across your channel. Great content go SA!!
Rosie great video. It is very interesting what is happening in South Australia. A couple of points: South Australia's average demand is 1500 MW. Installed and working solar and wind capacity is already double this. This week, from Sun 15th to Mon 16th Oct, renewables did not supply enough energy to SA for 16 hours. During this time renewables supplied about 40% of power requirements. So I have a couple of comments: 1) Already there is a huge amount of redundancy and over-capitalisation in the system and it gets worse as the level of renewable supply goes up. As of today, a fossil fuel system that can supply almost 100% of SA needs to be maintained to ensure supply. The higher the level of renewable energy supply, the less times fossil or battery back up is needed, yet these systems need to be maintained to ensure supply. Hence the rising cost of electricity to consumers. 2) The hypocrisy of the supporters of renewable energy in failing to address the environmental and social issues caused by renewable energy is breath-taking. Turbines and Solar have about half the life of fossil fuel generating machinery. The disposal of turbines and solar panels is extremely problematical. In all the stories about the wonders of renewable energy, this is seldom referred to. Neither of course are the land clearing, erosion, bird and bat kills, extensive use of herbicides under solar panels, inadequate compensation and totalitarian land grabs by governments. The single-minded pursuit of introducing renewable energy is ignoring many other issues that have long term negative effects. These are seldom covered in any media. I know I will be pilloried for these comments, but some balance is needed. Love your work by the way. queries
Clearly we are in transition. The costs for renewables are continuing to drop massively, coal cannot compete when windy and sunny (a lot of the time in SA and Vic). Not sure if you have hung out near a coal fired power station lately or seen how long an open coal pit will burn in Vic should a bushfire pass over but the long term consequences are pretty clear.
Finally someone asking the right questions. And we get crickets for answers.
Wombat, so convenient you ignore the CO2 emissions of fossils, plus the damage to health and the scars coal mining leaves on the landscape. Oh not to mention the 1000s of tonnes of coal ash dumped every day.
@@dzcav3 No need to entertain nonsense. wombatsticki23's post deserves crickets. The post has all the classic silly contrarians narratives. Just for example, the contrived, hilarious and shallow concern expressed for "bird and bat kills". The highest bird mortality, for example, is caused by buildings. Renewable energy system installations languish near the bottom of the list, relatively hardly registering. But I don't hear our very concerned (cough cough) wombatsticki23 complaining about buildings killing birds.
I am just so over the level of wilful ignorance and dumb that is willingly on display in such posts.
And you on your side glossed over all the environmental cost of sending hundred of billions of CO2 in the atmosphere. For centuries…
Thanks Rosie for this very positive video showing how SA is leading the way to the net zero future we need. I was surprised and heartened at just how quickly the transformation has occurred.
Also leading the way on the most expensive electricity in Australia. Pat on the back - cause the wind and the sun are free, Ya know!
Awesome video. Really important that the world has a working example to understand the challenges and to adapt to suit local conditions.
Great video Rosie. Western Australia is even more isolated than SA and has a larger grid. Any chance of a rundown on its progress? An yes, please do a video on grid forming vs. grid following inverters!
It is hard to *predict* when conventional generation plants fail. We can largely predict when/how renewable sources produce power.
Nonsense
Very good Rosie, many thanks!
Thank-you Rosie. You're a great teacher!
a country 3x the size of Germany and 50x less population and a lot of sun and very little industry should be able to power itself with pv panels and windmills. But that cannot be considered a leading example.
Next thing we will hear that some some villages in Africa are leading the green energy transition because they use biomass to cook the food and pv panels to recharge their flashlights and that they decarbonized their transportation by using walking and bikes.
Somebody always has to spoil the happy talk with reality.
Thank you for this Rosie. Canada needs to be paying attention to Engineering with Rosie.
Agreed! Despite our relative wealth, we’re not doing well enough in adopting renewables. I realize it’s tough going to 100% renewables in northern areas with little sunshine during the winter and a very hostile climate, but wind turbines are definitely capable of surviving in these areas, albeit probably a shortened lifespan. Another part of the issue is a lot of wasted energy, not using modern construction and building technologies to minimize heat loss in homes and inefficient machinery etc. I’m always on the fence about govt subsidies for improving efficiency since that’s really just coming out of our own pockets anyways, but probably it’s worthwhile since the cost of borrowing by the govt is lower than for individuals, so overall it nets out to be a lower cost that way, other than perhaps the cost of paying the bureaucracy to manage the program.
Mea culpa, I’m guilty of being a part of the problem in my 110 year old house which definitely needs new insulation, improved windows etc and I’m planning on starting the upgrades next spring.
Toronto has a pretty cool tech they’ve been using for several years now at least, which is storing compressed air in a bladder underwater in Lake Ontario. It gets filled overnight when electricity costs are low and discharges during the day and evening when electricity rates and demand are high. It’s not powered by renewable energy sources necessarily, but it’s a very interesting storage method that could potentially work in any deep enough lake (Lake Winnipeg perhaps?). Not sure how it’d survive in the saltwater of the Pacific or Atlantic oceans but it’d be good for the local governments there to investigate.
What are you talking about? Canada is tremendously successful with renewable energy.
BC, Manitoba, and Quebec are at more than 90 percent renewable, and even Ontario gets more electricity from renewables than from fossil fuels. And if you compare electricity bills in Montreal, Winnipeg, or Vancouver to those in Adelaide, it definitely seems that Canada uses a better renewable.
@@dennisenright9347 I’d love for this to be true, but I’m pretty sure it’s not. If you care to discuss further, provide facts with links that support your claims.
@@sjsomething4936HE leaves out the part of running out of pristine river valleys to flood.
Also includes the dreaded (by idiots) nuclear power that is the backbone of Ontario.
Advocate for Nuclear or shut the hell up.
Also leaves out. How do you do wind or solar in mostly cloudy dark mountainous British Columbia... well you cannot. BC buys back up hydro from ding ding ding COAL FIRED Montana utilities. Hydro project SITE C is very controversial and most likely will be the last mega dam.
Storage costs as much as Nuclear, generates nothing.
So build the nuclear.
@@sjsomething4936agreed. Canada is a terrible place to rely on wind and solar. Hydro is great, yes, but has transmission limits.
These of course have their place! Solar is a great way to shave afternoon air conditioning peak loads, if the panels face West.
Great to see. An eye opener!
Very good presentation.Thanks for the update.
Really cool, South Australia is doing great!
Interesting here in Sweden and Europe where we're basically phasing out fossil fuel electricity and nuclear is declincing since old reactors are torn down faster than new are being built, while we are increasing power demand for a sustainable transition in industry and transport..
Some regions have resources for hydro, wind, offshore wind, solar.. And a pretty good interconnected grid.
May i ask for a renewable europe episode? :)
I'd ask for one for Canada too but there are a few provinces who won't hear anything of the sort. One actually has a moratorium on clean projects citing resident concerns. It should be noted this was never done for oil and gas projects, the moratorium that is.
South Australia has the most expensive electricity in Australia
I am probably going to be in Europe at Easter next year, so will definitely plan to do some Euro content while I'm there. I was thinking to do individual country videos (e.g. Germany's energy transition) but do you think an all-Europe one would be better?
Denmark has a really variable grid, sometimes exporting 2 GW (windy at night), sometimes importing 2 GW (no wind). Storage at scale would be really useful and an alternative to using Norway as a hydro-battery 🙂
This is not true
@@ValMartinIreland Ok, sometimes they import 3 GW.
I had no idea how quickly and well SA has done this. It's pretty cool.
Excellent summary of how it can be done by South Australia. An example that all countries look at
great work Rosie , I wish south Europe would be a little more courageous,thanks for inspiring us😊
Look at the details.
Great to see that South Australia is counting domestic solar in its total renewable generation. We generate most of our electricity from solar and batteries, but our only impact on the grid numbers is in reduced bills. Yet it would be a real positive motivator if people could see how much they are collectively contributing to generation.
Batteries don't generate electricity.
Great video, and always nice to see a positive story in the green energy arena. Greetings from Iowa, where we also have a huge amount of wind power.
Perfect Summary!
I wish the US would better approach renewables like South Australia has. Good video!
Denmark also connects at 1400 MegaWatt to England in early 2024. South Australia can't connect to Western Australia or Queensland any time soon, they are too far.
That makes SA's efforts more impressive.
Viking link should be v late 23 its finished testing and installation now
Thank you, Rosie.
Great video Rosie on an interesting RE focussed region South Australia !
South Australia now has Australia’s most expensive retail electricity price. It is a massive 45c/kWh and it’s nearly the highest in the industrialised world. It is 50% higher than Victoria whose electricity is 30c/kWh and mainly generated by brown coal.
Germany and Denmark have the highest electricity prices in Europe and the highest percentage of wind and solar.
Chinese electricity cost is about 12c/kWh and is mostly generated by black coal and they commission a new coal generator every 2 weeks.
Danish retail electricity price is correctly the highest in Europe, but that is due to taxation, which is a political choice. The wholesale price is average for Europe. Furthermore the Danish grid has one of the highest availabilities in the world which also is worth something.
Thanks for injecting reality into this fantasy world.
@@jensageholm8774
From the internet
The average price of electricity in Denmark, in June of 2023, has been 0.3811€ per kilowatt hour. Electricity price has decreased € 0.206 kWh, 35.09% since the previous semester. Meanwhile, the average price of electricity without taxes in Denmark in that period was € 0.2976 per kilowatt hour,
So Danish electricity cost before tax is 0.2975 euros which is 50c Australian which proves my point.
And climate change is fiction (if you don't live on the seafront), china is a famous tourist destination for folks to come and marvel at the air quality, the earth is flat.... got anything else to share sherbet?
@@Volthrax I paid €0.1 per kWh in June for the raw electricity on a variable rate plan (€0.16 when including transmission tarifs). What is your source? - maybe some fixed rate plans are included or something.
What you missed? How much did this cost?
Overturn the silly Nuclear Ban and this would be much easier!
More of this! Awesome.
What a great video Rosie love the content would like to see you visit some of these new interconnectors!!
I will try!
Hello from Canada Rosie!
One way South Australia might be able to get rid of those gas plants a little bit faster is with the more modern Geothermal.
I know you said that traditional geothermal is a no go, but this new process changes that dramatically.
There is a company in the US called Fervo Energy, who use this new method of geothermal.
I think even one of their plants would really help stabilize the SA grid.
Otherwise this is a great video and it's really nice to see just what is possible in so short a time.
I am a West Australian, and unfortunately there is not geothermal pretty much anywhere in Australia. Our Volcanos died out a long time ago. Geothermal is basically a no go here. But what has slowed Australia down is Conservative Govts and Conservative people denying Climate Change and actually attacking renewables.
As Rosie said, when SA was hit by a massive storm and destroyed the transmission lines, al, the Federal Govt Conservative politicians actually blamed the renewables for the power blackouts. Same as the Republicans blamed renewables for the power issues in Texas a couple of years ago.
In Australia we tend to have more right wing govts over the years n Federal and State and they always fight against renewables and push fossil fuels. We had a Conservative Federal Govt for 9 years until 2022, and nothing was done on Climate Change. Nothing at all. Cheers
@@BatMan-oe2gh keep an eye on the technology, there's a new rock vapourizing laser that might well drill deep enough for traditional deep-well liquid-vapourizing geothermal but there's definitely shallow-well solar-heated geothermal like they use for heat pumps.
Everything's changing so fast at the moment you can't rule _anything_ out for long.
@@alanhat5252 I don't rule out much, but it has been looked at here.
According to the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA), there are three main challenges that make geothermal power not financially viable in Australia.
1: Finding it: Identifying suitable geothermal resources.
2. Flowing it: Producing hot fluid from the geothermal reservoirs at a high rate.
3. Financing it: Overcoming the significant up-front capital costs associated with enhanced geothermal system technologies and the cost of transmitting electricity from remote locations.
Exploratory geothermal wells have been drilled to test for the presence of high temperature geothermal reservoir rocks, but all these projects have since been abandoned. A small geothermal plant in Queensland experienced problems during commissioning and as of May 2022, remains idle.
Geodynamics Cooper Basin Demonstration Plant in South Australia was built by Geodynamics to assess the potential of hot-rock geothermal energy for zero-emission, base-load power. The 1 MWe Habanero pilot plant operated for 160 days in 2013 and prior to closure of the trial, the plant was operating at 19kg/s and 215 degrees Celsius production well head temperature. However, the project was abandoned after being assessed as uneconomic due to a combination of the cost of commercialising generation and the remoteness of the site. Cheers.
Electrician here in the power industry: While possibly viable, Fervo Energy has an unproven technology with unknown long term costs. And being a thermo electric power system, something they fail to mention is that geothermal power still requires a lot of fresh water to operate, and for injecting into the boreholes to extract the heat. Getting adequate supplies of water that is cold enough to operate at full power is a major issue for coal, gas, and nuclear fired thermo-electric power plants, and geothermal will be competing for those same sources of water. Most people do not know that thermo-electric power production is one of the largest consumers of fresh water in the US. One of the major advantages of wind and solar is that they do not consume water.
@@GoCoyote
Fervo use a close loop system. This means that unlike those others you mentioned they don't lose much/any water to evaporation.
The hot water comes up in a closed pipe and warms another liquid that then runs their generator.
It's an innovative way of dealing with some of the problems of traditional geothermal.
That said it still uses water, but then again, what doesn't?
Thanks for your video. We always have a heap of videos about the rest of the world, its great to have one done on Australia. I'm in NSW and had no idea how much better SA has done with the clean energy transition. We are cretins by comparison
These videos are so great! South Australia is definitely doing amazing things and despite recent federal politics there is a lot going on in Australia
This is a fantastic video
Great video (I'm a biased south aussie). Would be interested to see some details on how the Hornsby battery made lots of $$ selling power on the peak short term energy market.
There is a very important point here not oftern covered or understood. First we need to understand the flow of money. Sure the battery makes money when renewable power is low, the corollary of that is someone is paying a high price to keep the lights on. And sure, sunlight and wind is free so the fuel costs to the operators is low; Capital and distribution costs are high, as will be still incalculable and unknown disposal costs. In contrast to the low fuel cost, the reliability cost is very high for two reasons.1) South Australia currently has 2 to 3 times the renewable energy generation capacity compared to what the grid requires and still only supplies 70%. So there is the cost of large amounts of the equipment only being used some of the time. The batteries make lots of money for a short period, they quickly run out, but the companies of the not-producing equipment are accumulating large costs with no income. I am not sure what the supply contracts say, but I suspect in our eagerness to go renewable the consumer is covering all the cost of renewable operations, ensuring no multinational who installed the renewable equipment is losing money. 2) At this stage a non-renewable system capable of meeting all of SA's energy requirements needs to be maintained, so there is a complete system capable of powering the state operating at all times as the wind can drop in seconds and the machines must already be running to fill the gap. So in effect, South Australia has the 3 or more times the generating capacity that it requires. If your power bill is going up this would be part fo the reason
Looking forward to your V2G video. I have just bought a 2nd EV a BYD Seal with 82kWh LFP and V2L which I will feed into the ac input of one of my inverters. I currently have 36kWh LFP of home batteries. Would love to be paid to support the grid here in Thailand but change is slow.
what's V2L?
found it - Vehicle to Load
awesome content, put me in a happy mood for the day even!
Excellent video! ❤🎉😊
Great and thought provoking video Rosie, but I waited in vain for details of the cost of the renewables progress in SA. I recall reading one or two years ago that SA had the highest retail power cost not only in Oz but in the world, having exceeded even Norway. Was this true and if so is it still the case?
Yes the highest in Australia and the world. My peak rate is 50c/kW. Rosie is young and mesmerised by the technology and hasn't provided the detail on cost, which is important omission. You just have just ask the people paying for this very bad experiment. It is excellent that you questioned this and get an answer from a customer.
Yes, you did omit some things from your video -- THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT THINGS, COST AND RELIABILITY.
1. How do you electric rates compare now versus 2007?
2. How does electrical reliability compare now versus 2007?
How could you NOT cover the two most important factors of electrical supply?
Come on, man! Low-carbon virtue-signalling is far more important that cost and reliability!
Good video, thanks!
Excellent video thank you
Thanks for that uplifting video! Here in California, the renewable transition seems to be stalling because of nimbiism, politics, and misinformation from the hydrocarbon lobby. For one, our own democratic governor sided with utilities to gut net metering. Small rooftop solar companies are struggling.
There is only one thing stoping.... cost and economic viability... second is circumstances... not so much wind in califronia and very diffrent population size
Plus, they're trying to make renewables do something they cannot do without a good storage method. Until there's an economical, efficient battery, much as I love renewables and am very much looking forward to their large scale implementation, renewables will continue to languish. We really needed to spend all the money Obama pissed away on solar panel's, on battery research. But he very cynically wanted to get his name on something and the silver bullet battery probably wouldn't have been found during his administration so he did what was best for him, not the environment and dumped all that money into solar panels. F him.
same here in germany... it seems to be a struggle of cultures... for the new or keeping old. Seems to be going so hostile like in USA, here it is the green party against nearly all others... the greens have only 2 more years, before election could change everything... again. The people must see, that "green" is a good thing and that you can save a lot of money, so smart metering for my opinion is the key for low pricing when it's windy or sunny. For me that is the main thing, that really can change minds...
@@detlefk.5126 Germany? Highest prices of electricty in the world? And over blown wind farms without transmision lines and sitting in the middle of european interconnectors and closing nuclear palnts...
You are primal example where it went bad, very bad.
Now when you can not buy natural gas from russia you restore coal plants and coal mines...
As i said everything is matter of economoics.... if you skip that step you will end like in Germany, richest country in Europe when hundred thousands of people can't afford electricity bill...
@@AK-vx4dy A lot of this is propaganda. Coal usages is on a decline in Germany despite turning off nuclear, despite energy crisis, despite having abundant coal resources within their own territory. You just keep hearing comparisons to France which already switched to Nuclear in the 70 and 80s long before climate change was a major concern simply because they had no coal or any other fossil fuels . The only true thing is that Germanys power is very expensive but they also emit only half of CO2 per capita than places like Australia, Canada, USA, New Zealand,... while being the economic center of Europe. They are much further ahead in their energy transition than most developed countries outside Europe.
Very interesting power grid! How high are the electricity costs for customers in comparison 2005-2022?
Soul crushingly high here, for a long time in the late 2010s we had the most expensive electricity in the world and I think that'd still be the case if it wasn't for the energy crisis in Europe atm.
great report ❤
Hi Rosie, thanks for the effort you put into your videos. I would however temper your commentary on the push to 100% renewables on our grids in the absence of flexible baseload generation. The suggestion that South Australia can operate without the support of flexible open cycle gas turbines isn’t supported by the SA generation profile - in any given week there’s always at least one period where renewables contribute circa 5% or less. As engineers we have a duty to encourage the transition, but in a way that is financially responsible and realistic. These concerns being increasing raised within the electricity industry and are ignored at our peril. Cheers.
Hey Rosie, I would be very interested in the cost-benefit of connecting WA with the rest of the national grid, especially due to spreading the “duck curve” and associated solar challenges over a longer time frame! Would love to see this in a video some time
How would you connect with low transmission losses over that huge distance? Most of the power would be lost in the wires.
@@theharper1 exactly the type of question I’d like to hear the answer to! My mind goes to HVDC but I have almost zero knowledge on this topic.
@@tobyheislers8924 I read that China was installing at least one HVDC line to carry solar power from the sunny inland to the populated coast. I'm just not sure that there will ever be the cost recovery to justify building an HVDC line from Adelaide to Kalgoorlie or where ever the closest point of the WA grid might be. Still, investments like that are where Governments are supposed to step in.
So steal WA sun for the benefit of the east coast.
@@Robert-cu9bm I think it's called selling resources. Like all the gas that goes to Japan.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ideas and videos. Interesting that you mentioned synchronous condensers as a means of load control. Having over 30+ years experience in power systems operations I know of situations where people thought and operated as if they provided load support thru inertia but later found out that they were extremely lucky that the load support was never actually needed because it wasn’t actually there. Synchronous condensers are good for voltage support but not much more. The load support you get thru voltage control is minimal at best. There is no substitute for prime mover thru governor action. I’ve pondered the problem for many a night shift and the best we seem to have as an alternative is battery backup which is extremely expensive for now. My idea was to require solar to put in battery storage with the capacity to hold a percentage of their max production and to tune the inverters to be sensitive to frequency and either charge or discharge into the grid on a sliding scale. Pump storage is good and there are some varieties that could be used in Australia using very deep mines for lower reservoirs in place of high mountains but those are also extremely expensive unless there are unused abandoned mines at the needed elevations available for use. I know at one time it was proposed to put pump storage in the New York City area using the ocean as the upper and purpose dug chambers in the bedrock over 1000 feet below for the lower reservoir. Always interesting to hear about solutions and problems from other areas in the transmission/power industry, thanks again for sharing.
hi how do you feel about running dams with more than one turbine hall ? I know about the standing issues raised by those in the industry of backpressure not being stable leading to turbine surging but i have overcome these and can fit two banks of turbines in the system with no affect to the current systems do you have any thoughts?
Good comment.
Real world experience keeps the dreamers moving in the right direction.
We need to have future ideas but guided by reality so to speak.
@@simonbowman6206 I’m not sure of what situation you would want more than one turbine hall. I know of plants that have the turbine hall in the middle of a mountain and they have a large pressurized surge chamber between the penstock and the conduit from the upper reservoir intakes. Surge chamber was the same size or larger than the turbine hall. I also know of a plant that had one conduit feeding a manifold to several penstocks to individual units. In that situation it was a pump storage and the only limitation was all units had to be operated in the same mode due to concerns of unpredictable conditions in the manifold. If your talking about turbines in series at multiple elevations I would think that probably would not be recommended for multiple reasons. Sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.
Check out Hydrostor compressed air storage, they installed a pilot system in Toronto a few years ago. Not sure if their system is suitable for NYC, especially in the ocean but it’d be worth city officials looking into I’d think.
@@sjsomething4936 thanks for sharing, I’ve heard of those type of plants, didn’t realize that they built one in Ontario. Cool.
Great video, very interesting
You need more great examples like this.
Very good presentation. How lucky South Australians are to be just 2 million in such a large space. Living in the cramped South East of England I am seriously jealous!
And when they have too much electricity in South Australia and the price goes negative they desalinate seawater with it at Lonsdale.
Hahahah, Australia is 7,682,300 km2 in size with 26 million people. The United Kingdom is 242,495 km2 with 67 million people. I can understand why you feel so cramped.
@@BatMan-oe2gh it still beats 363km² to hold 2.2 million people though (soon to be half the area though with a few 100,000 dead).
@@BatMan-oe2gh
The majority of Australia isn't usable.
@@Robert-cu9bm Lots of people live in the outback and the land is usable. Just have to know how to use it.
This is HUGE. South Australia is breaking MYTHs about RE and becoming a BENCHMARK to the world!
It’s the most expensive retail electricity in Australia.
@@unicornadrian1358That's interesting, if true. I wonder why it would be?
Imagine five years from now. The input to keep it going is wind and sun. No truckloads of coal or big tanks of gas needed. Surely by then, the cost will be quite low.
@@davidmenasco5743 but the grid storage? The batteries are very expensive and short lived. And the electronics to convert the electricity?
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 Batteries for grid storage should last 20 years, and depending on the chemistry, possibly much longer.
The price of batteries will continue to drop for at least ten more years.
Even where it's at now, the cost of batteries is WAY cheaper than the cost of dealing with climate change after the fact.
@@davidmenasco5743
Half of the wind farms will need replacing in another 5 years
I would suggest that you could do an interesting video about the grid inverter technology. That is, what is the hardware like and how do they all stay in synch? Thanks for yet another great video.
Hi from SA - thanks for a great presentation - clear, concise and informative.
Most expensive electricity in Australia. Who actually benefits from these mega projects?
@@joshs470 As far as I recall, it was only a week or so where it genuinely was most expensive in the world,
I debated it a number of times on the ex-social media platform, and other than that there was an 18 month period where it was often the most expensive domestically.
Murdoch SkyAfterDark and a large following went with "most expensive in the world" tag for years afterward.
At the time when we mostly used gas, the shareholding of energy companies supplying SA was majority owned by entities in other countries, particularly Hong Kong.
Although I could never manage to persuade Simon Holmes a Court of it, I still believe some of our disruptions other than the big 2016 one were because it harmed shareholder interests to keep SA's power on.
[off-topic, personally I wish we could abandon the whole shareholder/company model as a now obsolete relic of the Middle Ages. However I have no suggestion what to replace it with.
Everything at the bottom of Malsow's hierarchy should be supplied free via taxpayers.]
@@oakfat5178
I didn't say it was the most expensive in the world. It is, however, the most expensive electricity in Australia. electricity generation in the NT is 70+ % gas and it is still cheaper there.
@@joshs470 When #SkyAfterDark was making the claim, I checked and it was briefly the most expensive in the world.
Please do a search for "AEMO Quarterly Energy Dynamics Q1 2023" and also check Q2,which should be in your search results.
For each of those reports, see Figure 10 on page 12, comparing wholesale electricity prices.
The reason SA had such high prices was tat we only had gas, and not enough renewable. The gas suppliers charged us extremely high prices.
The more renewables SA has acquired, the more the price has dropped.
If you want to defend your claim, please supply a source for it.
@@oakfat5178
If you want to blame gas for the high prices look at the NT. 70% gas generation and electricity is significantly cheaper there.
Congrats to SA. Thanks for the video, makes me really optimistic.
What's the difference, btw, between synchronous condensers and what I know as flywheel generators?
Flywheel generators consist of two distinct parts; the rotating flywheel (prime mover) and a separately coupled motor-generator. The biggest difference is that a synchronous condenser is not a generator. It is actually a net consumer of power from the grid because it doesn’t have a prime mover once up and running. Synchronous condensers are essentially self-contained synchronous machines (they can run as a generator or a motor) because they have a DC-excited magnetic field that rotates with the rotor, inducing [leading or lagging] current onto the grid-connected stator. This allows them to support grid stability by managing reactive power needs and providing rotating inertia. They are not really injecting real power.
@@disorderling Thanks. Still not 100% sure I get the difference - might be worth an explainer video :)
@@rklauco Yeah, it’s not an easy concept to wrap one’s head around so I hope she does make a video about it. The loss of inertia is a big problem as we put more inverter based generation on the grid while retiring rotating synchronous generators. In fact, I believe Hawaiian Electric is requiring future rooftop solar interconnections to include a battery and grid forming inverter so they can maintain grid stability during fault conditions. Anyway, great question!
That was a fabulous presentation. It would be nice to also have some information on the economic impact of the changes, and net CO2 production. Thanks!
Hi Rosie, There is soon to be installed in SA a 200MW solar thermal plant that runs at about 70% efficiency, and has 2 days thermal storage. Andrew.
Hi Rosie. Very well produced video; well sourced, factual and up to date ongoing feats currently in progress. I was concerned about the title, i.e. '100%', but at least we are getting bigger results from steps taken thus far.
Grid powered EV charging, ponding, the fact that the southern districts hit maximum from roof top injection and moved to encourage home Storage are some of the growing problems or 'teething' issues associated could be a deeper dive. but I haven't watched all of your content as yet. Fixing that now! Dom
I'm an Aussie and have been watching the SA experience with interest. I'm curious to know how long term retail pricing compares in SA vs other states. If I look at the AEMO dashboard right now, it shows SA with scheduled demand at 1426MW and scheduled supply at 757MW. The price per MWh is AUD153, in SA, as compared to AUD116 in Victoria (who they have the interconnect with, as Rosie points out). The cheapest is Tasmania (which has a very high proportion of hydro) at AUD94.
I'm also curious about how much electricity SA has to import over the course of a year. Maybe I need to point my analytics tools at the AEMO data and find out.
EDIT: The irony is not lost on me that SA has one of the largest uranium mines in the world (Olympic Dam) and yet we're not allowed to generate power using as fuel anywhere in the country. Forget about the technical and commercial challenges for a moment, outright banning its use makes the whole idea moot. To my mind it's irrational.
It is not irrational to exclude an option because it is too expensive.
@@christopherfry2844 saying that you won't pursue a process or technology because it isn't cost effective at a given point in time isn't irrational, I would agree. But that's not what has happened here in OZ. Regardless of any of those considerations way back in the late 1990's nukes were banned anyway. That, IMHO, was irrational (but pragmatic from Howard to win Greens support)
While South Australia is clearly on a good path, I’m curious how well its model can be replicated in other parts of the world.
Adelaide has a very mild climate and only moderate solar drop off in the winter months. It’s a lot tougher to manage a variable grid in places that regularly experience freezing temperatures with overcast skies for many days in a row such as much of the Northern US.
Wind, hydro, interconnects
@@JohnSerjeantson Yes, but easier said than done
@@StreetcarHammock As are most of humanity's challenges.
Great video once again. Roof top solar video in Australia would be great.
All in all great video
Yeah, you missed the fact that South Australia has approximately 50% higher cost of electricity then other states.
How high will this cost go to completely get rig of Gas power?
What's the approximate cost to replace Batteries annually?
Actual, real-world costs are rarely mentioned in reference to solar and wind. Even in one of the most favorable places on the planet for them, they are still very expensive.
And many of these projects will need to be replaced in another 5 or so years. That expense will likely be passed on to consumers.
Probably worth including that Adelaidians pay more for their electricity than any other state as well, nearly double other states at times, its a retarded 47c pkwh for some currently.... I guess those greedy power companies are cashing in as much as they can until they are made redundant.
You notice she never discussed costs or economics.
yeh doesnt make for as neat and tidy and episode I guess but now we know why we are paying 47c....@@dzcav3
And how much of the wind/solar/battery system cost is borne by taxpayers?
well I paid for mine myself which simplifies that question and removes any reason not to do it@@garymiller6151
Thanks for the nice video.
Super clear, straightforward facts. Exactly what is in short supply among policy makers responsible for government energy choices around the world.
Describing the battery systems simply in megawatts does does nothing to describe the storage capacity of a system. It would need to be described in megawatt hours. The current battery systems and those under construction do little more than assist with demand peaks due to their limited capacity. To achieve a 100% renewable energy system, it will require a MASSIVE investment in new battery storage systems and even more wind and solar to charge those batteries concurrent with demand. What you make sounds so easy would actually require a huge amount of financial and material investment. The people of South Australia could expect their energy costs to skyrocket above their already high energy costs.
At 6:50 I also heard something that's important but not sufficiently highlighted here, ie the problem of storage for supply. The amount of supply that can be guaranteed by current storage capacity is just not good enough.
I am sorry but all these talks about renewables and batteries is just a dream. The sincere consequence analysis of the scale to power humanity is not there. We only need to look at a common mineral as copper to understand that it is not possible today to build a renewable system and "smart" grid. Then even worse is all the mining required for rare earths. Copper is financially impossible to dig up already around 2030 if we should go for renewables. You cannot dream about new green renewable technology without looking at the whole raw material supply chain. A supply chain that the world will run out of in a decade or so if we go all in for renewables. It is just not possible and it doesn't matter how much you favour wind and solar. Without having solved the material supply and also the supra conductors in surrounding temperature we must look at other realistic sources. To replace fossile fuels, it is only nuclear that has the power density available. Fission today but hopefully fusion tomorrow. The step that mankind is trying to take via renewables is just plain stupidity. Look at ALL the facts and stop dreaming in a bubble.
You did not cover cost to the customer both in monthly bills and in taxes required to stand this up. Germany went rabid on renewables and the costs for the customers was double what it was for other Europeans.
Comparisons like this don't really make any sense. Most countries fund new infrastructure and power generation via subventions paid indirectly by taxes or even have the state own power companies directly. Places like France have a Energy Regulatory Commission that sets tariffs for residential customers because most power companies are state owned. In Germany power companies get supported by the state but the costs are recovered via a surcharge on power bills so they have the highest price by design independent from the actual power costs.
They don't talk about cost because it would ruin the fantasy.
Great presentation. I was particularly interested in No 5 on system strength / inertia.
Great false presentation. It is all false.
Rosie, This is more than a little optimistic - yes it’s true that on some days renewables supply a large proportion of SA’s power, however continuous and reliable power requires interconnection to coal fired power from the Eastern States, supported by gas fired power maintained at 25-30% of the demand so as to be available should the wind / solar suddenly fail. Gas pipelines and gas power stations have increasing difficulty in generating sufficient revenue to stay in business, while excess renewable generation is either shed, or the producer pays others to absorb the excess (rather than earning revenue). A couple of years ago the combined solar and wind was forecast to provide much of the load, but mid morning the wind stopped and the interconnection tripped. Gas, battery and diesel were activated to prevent blackouts. The “big” battery discharged in 1 hour (earning $14700/MW) - while an infrequent event, such situations do occur, and support from conventional generation is required, and the public must ensure these earn suffieient revenue to be instantly available.
This all great but it doesnt work in the dark with no wind,, a 10min 100mwh battery is useless or even a bigger one. .. a synchro spinner is just a frequency forming motor and has no energy output. Back to the statment its dark and windless. Anything more that 60 to 70% renewables is just asking for trouble with no baseload generation to cover the down time... but south Australia cant build enough interconnetors fast enough after the last power lines blew down and sent them into the dark ages.
Is that a dinosaur eye icon you have.... are you a dinosaur.? have you burnt all your dinosaur fuel yet?
@annpeerkat2020 no that's my eye ball.. we're all in the dark ages, but snake oil is everywhere...
You couldn't do it if you had a constant 24/7:demand like an Aluminium smelter..
Because batteries are impractical and too expensive? So who supplies the base load?
Solar and wind farms are parasitic bludgers relying on reliable base loader hydro or coal power stations or expensive gas peaker plants. Why should alternatives to these need to be extremely expensive Batteries that have a potential to catch fire like Queensland last week?
Try running an Aluminium smelter with a continuous 500MWe demand with just a Solar farm and Gigabattery packs. The solar would need to have a 2000MW output averaged over 6hours then need at least18×500MWh = 9GWh batteries to get through the nights.
That's capital cost of:
4×500,000×$1500/kW= $3billion +
9000MWh×$200,000/MWh(= $1.8billion) =
Total capital cost/kW. = $4.8×10⁹/500,000 = $9,600 per kW for 24/7/365 demand of
C.f just one of Indonesia's PPA for 500MWe TMSR at a capital costs of $800 - $1000 per kW means the TMSR is 9.6 to 12 times cheaper capital cost compared to a stand alone combined Solar + Batteries.
(NOTE: Both supply 500MW × (6+18)hours = 12,000MWh/day)
Wow! Congrats to Australia for being a leader in renewables! We in the US are setting at about 23% renewable, I wish we were more forward-thinking like you. 😀
South Australia is one of the few places on earth that has both abundant wind and sunshine. IT also has very few people and little industry. This won't work for most populations centers on the planet. Rosie has a very rosy outlook due to her rare circumstances.
@@dzcav3
And the most expensive electricity in the country. It's wrecking businesses and amplifying and reinforcing social inequality.
Amazing
No doubt, there are a few devils in the details that our host has glossed over. I have yet to see any of these allegedly great installations stand on their own economically or without a lot of conventional backup generation. The host alluded to it as she quickly glossed over the need for imports from neighboring states and didn't touch at all on the remarkably poor economics of wind/solar. She also didn't talk about the very short lifespans of wind/solar installations.
Shh. They don't want to deal with reality.
You didn't mention cost once, Rosie. I'm under the impression that electricity cost in SA is the highest in Australia.
4 x 470 MW small modular reactors (SMRs) from Rolls-Royce SMR Ltd. (available from 2029 onwards) would supply all 14,000 GWh per year that SA uses with capacity in hand allowing seasonal load following through planned refuelling and maintenance outages.
Diurnal load following is achieved by combining with PEM electrolysers to load follow demand by switching between grid electricity supply and manufacture of hydrogen in milliseconds. Nuclear enabled hydrogen (NEH) is greener than green and, because operators would benefit from other revenue streams (load following/frequency correction grid services), the NEH could be sold at the going market rate to Fortescue and others.
The cost would be A$15 billion for 60 years of pollution-free, 24/7/365 electricity. That's an investment of $250 million/year equalling $309/year for each of SA's 809,000 households. That seems a pretty good deal for South Australians, probably costing no more than a decent rooftop solar/battery installation and, because the SMR environmental impact is microscopic, free of SA's worries of disposing of millions of toxic solar pv panels every year.
Lol. Are they the SMR's that don't actually exist yet ? Pretty brave predicting the cost this far out when we have all seen how project costs blow out over time.
Then there's the small issue of location. No one in Australia is going to want a nuke in their backyard no matter how 'safe' they are. Did you talk about the 24 hour security required for these installations ? Have you ever tried to visit a nuclear power plant ?
The price of the sun and the wind will never increase. Can't say that for nuclear fuel. Then there's the issue of the cost of storing the waste and used nuclear reactor equipment for thousands of years. l note you didn't include that in your costing either.
l think there might be a small role for SMR's in places like the remote Artic where the heat can be utilised but that's about it.
Renewables are doing the job now as Rosie has demonstrated. Not next decade at an unknown price. Renewables are actually in communities today with no objections. Domestic rooftop solar being the prime example. A technology that is allowing the consumer to control their own energy supply for the first time in modern history. Not being locked in to a contract with a multinational that will continue to raise prices .
Roof top solar. Home battery storage. Electric cars. All real technologies that are available to anyone today. All proven technologies that are getting cheaper and better by the year. Syncons and grid forming inverters are working today. Grid batteries are working today. All technologies that are real and are improving significantly year on year with documented proof.
Not a toxic maybe option that no one wants that is up to a decade away.
Disposing of solar panels ? You might want to do a bit of research and catch up to what's happening in 2023.
Does the $15 billion include the cost of capital? If not add an extra billion a year for interest cost.
Renewable advocates almost never mention cost, because honest analyses often aren't that favorable.
@@dzcav3 I'm a fan of nuclear in the right place, but the uranium must rot the brain of many of the advocates. All of the projects in the West have taken decades and cost far more than the pro nuc advocates said they would. EDF in France was such a financial disaster that it has had to be nationalized. Good deal for the French Government, they have bought it back at a fraction of what they sold it for.
@@dzcav3 Yeah, the price of solar is coming down... but I very much doubt all the extra transmission lines are going to get cheaper.
Denmark here; Norway's water are our battery ;-) We have several connections to Norway (2), Sweden (3) and Germany (3). For some years also a connection to Holland (1) and come January the connection to England will be ready for use.
Very excited for SA and all of Australia in your energy transition journey. Had read of the large batteries Tesla installed a few years ago.
Visiting (from US) 3 families in QLD May-June 2024 for 3 weeks + 2 weeks elsewhere. Looking forward to hearing their experience w/ roof solar panel systems & other developments. Don’t believe they have home batteries so far. One owns a building automation business.