1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads. 2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa.
Thank you Rebecca! You are so interesting. I feel like you are talking to me. I resonate with what you are saying. Absolutely agree about 'anger'. Oh yes I at times feel so much anger for being treated so poorly by my family. I'm the scapegoat. I'm 63yrs young. It took me all these years to understand my 92yr old father is a covert narc! It was a pivotal moment..I thought can this really be? My sister and her family are all narcs as well. I had aggressive breast cancer 2017..months of chemo plus I have fibromyalgia. I got told I was needy etc etc! Abused! Was expected to travel to look after my father while I was recovering from chemo. I'm an empath. I didn't know what I know now. My eyes are fully open. No more making excuses because they are 'family'. I went no contact 9months ago. I am fortunate enough to have a supportive and loving husband and son plus great friends so I have survived this betrayal from my family aka 'the terrorists' and now I am stronger and value my self worth so much more. I love who I am and will not take any nonsense from anyone. I quietly walk away. No drama! Love and blessings to you all 💞🌹
I was empowered recently when I spoke up to a local contractor who got really angry with me for speaking up about what I needed. Initially he ghosted me and never finished the work. I was so stressed out. However due to a family emergency I had to leave town for a few weeks and was able to get relief from the stress of it. When I returned his employer brought a different one and told me not to worry about the other guy because no one had ever told him the truth before and he deserved it. Now things are getting done and I feel empowered! Small victory but needed
I think I'm equally angry at those who stood silently by while I was being sliced to death by my mother. I went no contact with not just my immediate family but all the relatives as well. It just felt pointless and too-much-too-late. They don't know me, and I don't want to know people like them. The sense of freedom, empowerment, and life-affirming realness are simply priceless. Love your new hair color!
Thanks, Anne - It was only temporary though...! As I said in a recent video: Silence Is Complicity. Whether the silence is due to a shared projection process or not, the result is the same for the FSA target, which is how betrayal trauma can also happen as a feature of FSA.
Hi, so proud of you for making this decision! I’ve done the same. Trying to stay in NC with my mom and getting back to NC with my dad after some failed attempts to connection…
Totally feel that. My FOO states that since I have nothing to do with them, I'm not allowed to communicate with my extended family. Deaths, serious accidents they have determined I'm not allowed to know. When my extended family learned this, they were flabbergasted.
Indeed Scapegoat followed suite from my mother to my sister, then miserable cousins, plus I lost a career. No contact w sister for 23 yr now & cousins 14 years now. Mother died 18 years ago. I was broken by 20 years old. I am in my late 50s now and I look forward to aiding myself in healing emotionally and spiritually. We all deserve to be content now.
Did anyone else in the scapegoat role ever get the weird feeling that the abuser kind of wished you would get killed or just die or disappear? Some of the situations I was put in were clearly a danger to me, with no concern shown for my safety.
I was 5, holding my mother’s hand. A huge truck looked like it was going to run over me, so I moved closer to my mother. She said “ why are you so scared of dying?” I wasn’t even confused at that age. I knew she hated me. NC for 2 years now.
I have been no-contact with my FOO now for 10 years. A few years before I went NC with them,I was in the cry-for-help stage and didn’t realize (at the time) that I had the option of going NC. I actually thought it would be a good idea to hire an undercover bodyguard to accompany me at family functions in order to protect me from their abuse. When I found out how expensive it was to hire a bodyguard, I broke down and cried uncontrollably for about an hour - because I knew that I couldn’t afford it. I didn’t know then that I had complex ptsd. Guys - when it gets THIS bad, it’s time to go NC.
OMG. So many times I thought that if I could afford it, I would hire someone to pose as my boyfriend, when I had to interact with my mother. I’m not the only one
Dear Elizabeth D, from another Elizabeth D! I read and read and went from therapist to therapist and once I read about C-PTSD I knew that I'd found the definition of my trauma. And once I read about narcissism especially How to kill a narcissist by JH SIMON, I have pieced it together this year and gone NO CONTACT with my entire family of origin too, like you. Well done. It's the most intelligent thing to do. Otherwise, I think we'd die before our time. The NHS UK has this year 2023 for the first time, published a website page on cptsd. The NICE organisation is yet to decide on formalities but the information is getting through at last! We can start to understand the phenomenon. It's taken society a long time to admit the truth that families can be a sesspit of evil. Well done. From Elizabeth D in UK
@@diannebrett4074 - that’s exactly what I was going to do - except I was just going to introduce him as my “friend.” But in a way, it was such a blessing in disguise that they had a 4-hour minimum and were expensive; because I would’ve thrown away my hard-earned money over a bunch of toxic, disordered people. Thank God I didn’t waste my money like that and then STILL have to go NC with these narcissists.
It was when I allowed myself to become angry I started to really heal. Just as you state in the video, I was told I shouldn't be angry while certain others in my family are generally angry all the time. Once I gave myself permission to let it out I found the strength to walk away for good. Prior to that I kept begging, inviting, and accepting the poor treatment. What I am discovering is that the energy I used to spend trying to win favour within my family is better spent helping others who actually appreciate what I do for them. The void I feel is being filled in unexpected ways. Thank you again for your videos.
You're welcome, Jennifer. Sounds like my video validated your own experience of anger as an antidote to the various trauma/survival responses we can develop to survive a family system that scapegoats. Glad you were able to break free and go on to cultivate 'found family' where you can be yourself and relationships are reciprocal.
Be careful.helping others..You'll see that one day when you need help, not only will.they not help you, bit they'll avoid you. It's shocking and hurtful. Please be careful and don't become a doormat, like I was..
Thank you for sharing! HOW did you allow yourself to become angry?? Near impossible for me to allow myself as I start to fawn to keep myself from being hit before I get angry...anger (from only me) just was NOT ALLOWED!! How did you 'break the seal'? Thank you 🌸
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse cannot thank you enough---again! I will be waiting with bells on...anger release is a hurdle I am STUCK on, no matter what I've tried...I fawn...it was literally dangerous for only me to show anger 🌸
I am so glad this is FINALLY being talked about openly... It MUST become NORMAL for the general public to COMPLETELY understand why abused people go NO CONTACT with abusers... Ideally I would like to see criminal and civil penalties levied on the abusers.
Particularly in regard to abusive family members - Society really likes to its head in the sand about that ugly truth (which scapegoated children / adult children live with daily).
It was thought in my family of origin if you asked for help or as a child, behaved like you needed help, that it should be ignored and not played into. As an adult, the reaction to needing help is shame for being weak
Yes, and this may include unconsciously held Toxic Shame, which I did a video on last week. Experiencing appropriate and healthy anger can be an antidote for both toxic shame and the cry for help trauma response as it challenges the perceived state of helplessness.
Completely relate! In fact, I spent most of my 20s trying to get over that thinking because it affected how I saw ppl, too. I was judgmental and had disdain for emotional people because emotions were weapons in my family and we were conditioned that if someone else had an emotion, and showed it, they were obviously being manipulative, they had to be working and agenda. It's SO scary how paranoid and sadistic these family patterns are!
Which reminds me, I need to do a video on how these types of families weaponize emotions, with many parents / dominant family members acting as (what I call) 'emotional terrorists). Stay tuned!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseEmotional terrorism ran rampant in my home. My NFs favorite thing to say was "if you're going to cry, I'll give you something to cry about." Trust me, he meant it.
I am 70 dying failing heart, liver autoimmune but l have survived . From mother to siblings to work over and over. It has taken me a life time to get to see this I only hope that some there will be future changes. Take care . Get out . Get angry.
A cry for help or understanding is often met with Traumatic Invalidation in a scapegoating family. It gets even more painful. And even if one meets a sibling after 10 years.. the invalidating and blame shifting response is still immediate and the same.
Indeed. Did you see my video a few weeks ago on traumatic invalidation? My colleague Dr Erin Watson also wrote a great article about this that I linked in the video description. Link to the video here: ua-cam.com/video/8BQ5Vrarp1g/v-deo.html
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I saw the title of your video - and it spoke to me. Will check it now - soon. Thank you so much for all you do and your kind response. I am waiting for your book with great eagerness.
My 60th birthday is in April and I have just come to the realization that my whole life has been a trauma response. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT!
My mother was the overt, covert, malicious and manipulative narcissist. I was the empathic scapegoat for 35 yrs. It carried on with my two younger siblings after both of my parents passed on (mother and step-father). I couldn’t take anymore. They did horrible things-smear campaigns especially. I went no contact with the immediate and extended family about 15 years ago. It still hurts but I am free. I’ve been trying to re-build my self-esteem as I am so afraid of being attacked. I’m 50 in October but I am getting there. Social media still scares me…too many people from the past on FB etc. I never post. I’ve reached a point where I just don’t want to care about any of the judgement, rejection and blame! I was an easy target because I cared too much. Toxic shame still infects me. Trying to find a therapist who understands this has been a chore. I appreciate you and your videos so much. Thank you 🙏
totally understand that, I learned a lot when I did Hypnotherapy training. Knowing what I know now, wow, i don't know how I reached pension age all in one piece. After the Birth giver died, my sister tried to adopt the vacant position.
I woke up one day about a year after my mom died ( she was 96- i was in my mid 50's ) and thought "oh my god i have been living for everyone else!" .You are so wise and kind. Thank you for these videos.
This happened to me when my mom died as well. I liken my mom's death to my awakening and now have no contact with any remaining family of origin, including extended family. My children are my only family and I am so grateful for the love we have.
Every trauma response I had was used against me…ALL OF THEM, particularly fight, flight, appropriate anger then freezing and fawning when I was called ‘crazy’ and told I was incurably mentally ill. I knew this wasn’t true, and I finally saw that I was the only sane person in my entire family! The only person who has empathy and who really cares about others. This was ridiculed. I am no contact with all of them and stuck not knowing what to do or where to go from here, unable to make important decisions. I am jaded about people and when I do recognize nice genuine people, I feel like I cannot possibly allow them to know what I have been through as I know they won’t likely be able to understand and I may face further rejection which keeps me in self imposed isolation. I don’t feel lonely but I know that being alone all of the time isn’t healthy either. I can start over, but I have no good ideas and it seems so overwhelming and I am exhausted from years of living in trauma responses.
I've been where you are and could have written this myself awhile back. Working with a trauma-informed mental health professional can be very helpful. I use 'Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma' by Dr Janina Fisher with my FSA recovery clients, for example. Also, you may wish to read my introductory guide on FSA, which also addresses recovery, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Thank you so much Rebecca for your kind response and suggestions. I’m sure you know completely how much any recognition at all, and even more so, someone with your incredible understanding of this unspeakable crime means to FSA victims. I am ordering your book and the one you suggest by Dr Fisher is immediately.
@@2kme199 Good to hear - I hope you will find them both helpful. Dr Fisher also has a search feature here if you are interested in working with therapists trained in TIST (Trauma Informed Stabilization Treatment). janinafisher.com/search/
I relate to all you’ve written and I feel the same. NC with every family member for now, trying my best, the one sane in the family also, and working with EMDR therapist, trying to manage inner child work for now…it’s tough. Such a great advice and I’ll apparently also buy those books. I just need to declutter at home and organize some space for new books also. It’s very hard to navigate every day’s life for me as well :(
Righteous rage... I've learned that it will be used against you. Getting angry at the abuse and gas-lighting and standing up for your rights will be turned into "see, she is the problem, see her anger" It's a catch 22!!!
I love this video! The unknown can be terrifying but it can be exciting too....Ten years ago, I sold everything and left a place I no longer belonged. I moved 5000 miles away to Arizona where I started a new life! Never regretted it,...not once. YOU can do it too!! 🙂
Great story. The fact is, when it comes to family scapegoating abuse (including associated 'smear' campaigns) "geographical cures" CAN and often DO indeed work!
For years I waited hoping for someone to 'save' me from the abuse at home . Asking anything from parents just brought about an angry lecture of how I was to helping them and 'who do you think you are ?' rage . Expecting to parent my parents and always perform tasks I had no clue or instruction on how to do brought about the feelings of incompetence and failure they wanted me to feel . Boundaries could only be set as I was exiting and going NC years ago . The realization that I would no longer listen to their insults , name calling , projection and rage was shocking to them . Life hasn't been great but certainly an improvement over putting up with abuse that was never going to end .
It is genuinely tragic that children / adult children are put in such twisted, complex 'double binds' (aka the 'Gordian Knot' analogy as mentioned in my book). Congratulations on becoming your own 'rescuer' and breaking free of toxic ties. As Dr Carl Jung once wrote: "The only person we have the ability to save is OURSELVES." (rough quote, but you get the idea).
I left home to marry a man who treated me the same way that my father did....not a good outcome but at least I got away, had 2 beautiful daughters and began the journey of believing in myself...
New subscriber to your channel. A family scapegoat here who didn't get their "light-bulb" moment until this past December around Christmas at age 64. I received a gift I wasn't expecting though...knowledge! I've gone no contact with both my mother and sister. Life can be hard but to keep tolerating the intolerable isn't for me anymore. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and being a beacon of light to people that might be dealing with some darkness right now.
You're welcome, C.J. Very glad you found your way to this channel. You may also want to read my book on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA), which is based on my original (qualitative) research, clinical experience, and personal experience. My new tagline for my website may agree with you: 'Knowledge Is Power. Truth Is Life' (!)
I had to have the courage to move away when I was hitting bottom; to go no contact, to refuse to return when I was being a bad daughter refusing to be my mother's caretaker. No contact didn't exist yet. Trauma informed therapy didn't exist yet. I had no idea why things were the way they were. I am glad the world got caught up while I am still here. Turned 80 yesterday.
Happy Birthday Orah! 🙂 I am happy for you to be around long enough to figure out what happened. That alone will bring you peace. I am astounded how horrible and cruel so called "family" can be. In my case, throw sexual abuse (incest from my father) in the distorted mix! I am 68 now and Rebecca is the best therapist of all! I hope you check out her book, it answered all my questions and made me drop a lot of anger I carried. See you here every Saturday!!
Some of us growing up a different cultures had no idea "why things were the way they were" either. I did move to a different country -trying my best to cope alone after divorce- but they had money and kept coming here- I was happy to see them bcz I loved them{!} - but it always ended in more anger from them for their huge unmet expectations and more slanders . I have been seeking info like crazy for the past 10 years ...I am in retirement age now... I am glad too that these info is available now in a cogent format. I am reading the comments and find so much similarities.. If your mother was one of the scapegoater , you did the right thing- I bet it was hard. May all your Birthdays be peaceful and filled with contentment.. you deserve it.
@@lisbethsalander1723 I used to teach Cultural Competence when I was a grad school Professor. Abusive behaviors are also 'normalized' in certain cultures Such behaviors are not only NOT recognized as abuse, but can be encouraged to 'discipline' or socialize the child.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseI am glad you have that rare background. Then there is an abusive family culture within a culture.. and children believe that it is normal. Of course, you know that.
This is how it's supposed to be. When we love eachother we set healthy boundaries ones that help both parties grow. This is how love is supposed to operate so we don't hurt eachother and need to heal from repercussions, PTSD, and co-defendancy.
I remember calling this “cry of the wounded gazelle” with a pack of hyenas (my narcissistic mother and 2 sisters). I realized I needed to get away and not get stuck in this cry. 38 years later much healing for me but my sisters are stuck in themselves.
Thank you for your channel. I am 70 years old, and to hear of others older than myself, who are just becoming aware of their past is a great relief. It’s the old adage, “I thought that it was just me”, is so overwhelming. There is work to be done. Mostly on accepting myself. But realizing that I don’t need to please people. That’s a hard one. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. It means so much to those who were not given a good, solid nuclear family foundation. It wasn’t us. It was others and their challenges, that evidently weren’t met either. We didn’t have this knowledge then. Thank you. May God richly bless you and your work.
Thank you, Linda - and very happy to have you here. Whether the scapegoating was driven by generations of unrecognized/unaddressed trauma or via a narcissistic family member, it is never too late to embark on the journey of recovery. Awareness regarding what happened to you is indeed the first step. You might also want to read my book on what I named family scapegoating abuse (FSA), Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed.
I woke up one day and realized I was functioning so much better without the family Interaction. My only interactions required submitting to being the doormat and their continual invalidation. I’m very independent and self sufficient because I was forced to be. Nobody helped me ever. I don’t need them to survive and oh my..the peace!
Yes, thank you for this. Such fear from Mom's sudden anger. And such a sinking feeling in my heart. It meant hours of silent treatment crying alone, told to smarten up cause I'm just feeling sorry for myself. Forced to apologize (for?) and smile convincingly. Had a trigger recently when an acquaintance criticized me. Same feeling, even worse maybe. And I'm old! Terror so strong my throat closed up. Couldn't speak almost couldn't breathe.
as an innocent child. my dad passing when i was 5.. i NEVER had anyone to cry out HELP TOO.. i was like a piece of the furniture.. the gopher to get the chores done...and now at 62.. oh wow.. the anger.. over the neglect .. and realizing all the STUFF . i stuffed.. and how shut down i became...
Hi Rosalie, we would probably have been great friends! I relate to everything except I did have a loving dad who couldn't be that as narc mother would take it out on me. So he was distant, her enabler. I'm 73 in two days. I'll be alone, but heck it's so much better. Zero contact siblings 23 yrs. When my son died is when they ratched up the cruelty. 'always hated him'.. 'good'. And worse. These are low achievers compared to my son.. dux of school, top 3% intelligence in country, trained as doctor, joined RNZAF as an Officer Pilot. We have sometimes to hold truth close to our hearts. All the best to you for your journey.
Same happened with adopted mother. I'm 62 also.. She was such a scary person and I guess they just had to make those babies "tough" back then. There's so many secrets I found out about that family and they were a cult I never was invited to join. She her brother's family were still her family. And I was just there to clean up. But a made a living put of it. I know exactly how they made you feel. So cruel and mean. But God saw them too. Otherwisee, I wouldn't still be here.
the anger the victim allows themselves to feel can be the catalyst to a level of utter disgust at the horrendous abuse endured that they want nothing to do with such a sick dark person- and defeat conflict and tactics to leave for good. get real get mad, you deserved we deserved signed a being with an unbreakable spirit which cannot be beat into submission💛💫💥
I think I've used all the trauma responses: fight, flight, freeze, fawn and cry for help. The flight response led to the narcissist hoovering and coming after me with more abuse. The fight response led to increased denial and opposition. The freeze response led to more domination. The fawn response stole my voice and ability to stand up for myself. The cry for help led to narcissistic rage from the scapegoating family. This is a horrid life experience. Shattered from decades of abuse leaves the family scapegoat with no place to feel safe both in the body and the environment. I am grateful to be strong enough to walk away from all of the "shared psychosis" haters and be safe. Rebecca, I believe you are powerfully supporting scapegoats to finally take our lives back. It brings tears to my eyes, because of revelations from your work, that I finally have clarity about my entire life experience.
Thank you for letting me know how my work on FSA has affected you, Pamela. It is never too late to reclaim one's life (and soul). My new website tagline: "Knowledge Is Power. Truth Is Life".
Excellent information, thank you 🙏 The cry for help response does not work within the dysfunctional family no matter how righteous the rage.. it’s not tolerated from the scapegoat.
Doctor M, thank you for another holy shit, light bulb moment. Even though my whole life has been filled with one big trauma response, I can’t tell you how relieved I am to know I’m not totally crazy. You hve no idea how many times I’ve said what is wrong with me. I use to see people breezing through life while every part of mine was falling apart. The jobs, the friendships and just everyday situations would leave me completely baffled. What a waste of time. Again keep spreading the message. Your a scapegoats angel.
HI Joanna, I appreciate how open to these clinical realities my viewers / subscribers are. Thank you for letting me know that this video here was also helpful. I'm thinking you already read my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) but if not, it will no doubt give you more 'light bulb' / "A-ha!" moments, per the reviews I've received.
Maybe that's why I never ask for help, it is stored in my subconcious is the way I lived in a place called "family", this is not a family this is a extreme form of cruelty. We carry this burden even in our adulthood, and I wonder how to heal? Thankyou for this great video Rebecca. When I was a kid I didn't understand why they treat me in a different way, they program me to take care of my siblings and to my parents, like I didn't have any need. This is the wrong way my parents behave. No second chances for sure.
Yes, a child can be conditioned via the responses (or non-responsiveness) of the 'big people' who they depend on for care and survival. Regarding how to heal, you might watch my playlist for survivors, therapists and clinicians; also, you can purchase and read my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed if you'd like to learn more about this form of 'invisible' abuse.
I love how you talk about anger as a healthy feeling. So recognisable: not being able to showcase righteous anger or healthy boundary-setting, while other siblings WERE allowed to be angry for silly things in often disproportionate ways (I'm talking kicking and screaming anger).
Ooh, I love what you say about harnessing anger. That's why they make us afraid of expressing our outrage because they know that energy would allow the target to get out of their trauma-induced zombie-like existence where they accept what they have always been subjected to because they feel trapped. Tap into your righteous rage ON YOUR TERMS (i.e. don't allow it to overwhelm you so that you self destruct) and be the alchemists that scapegoats are!
Thank you for this video. I'm 48 years old and going no contact with my family of origin, including my mother, who I believe is in the narcissist spectrum. I have two male siblings in their 50s that live with her (one with schizophrenia) who can absorb her lies and continue to help scapegoat me. I've come to realize if I'm unwilling to be used for more favors than I can physically keep up with, then I'll be abused, and if I won't tolerate the abuse, I'll be discarded.
You're welcome, Jonathan. We can be conditioned from a very young age to accept and tolerate unacceptable, even abusive, behavior. I hope you are finding the support you need during what might be a stressful, uncertain time. It DOES get better!
Excellent video Rebecca. I’m the 63 year old who has spent most of her life in the “cry for help “ trauma response. In the beginning when I was very young I fought back with my father and went into flight mode as well. That turned into a “freeze “ response mode for a few years. At around 30 I was really in the “cry for help “ response and I had no idea that was what I was doing. It was a horrible scary way to live. I was surrounded by narcissists, mainly both parents, both sisters and a husband who were the primary abusers as well as a brother - and a mother -in -law. The thing is all of these people were constantly in a state of Rage while I kept absolutely silent throughout all of it. Finally at around age 60 I had an insight that I was being treated badly…. I expressed some anger.😮 I started hearing “You’ve got anger issues “. Ha. Ha. Ha. Anyone who is normal or near normal wouldn’t have put up with 1/1,000th of what I put up with. I’ve thought about going somewhere and throwing dishes or maybe stabbing a pillow but I haven’t done it yet. You’re so right when you said being scapegoated is meaningless suffering. I guess it helps the narcissist but it certainly didn’t help me. Now off to find a pillow.😅
Thank you. I realized after I made this video that I should have mentioned pillow-hitting as well. I've had some clients beat a mattress with a tennis racket; others drive to an empty parking lot at the beach at 3 in the morning and scream. As long as we can release the anger / rage SAFELY without harming ourselves (or others). And yes, it is amazing what those in the 'scapegoat' role are expected to put up with. God forbid we protest the maltreatment. And if you do, you are labelled "angry," "out of control," "violent," "crazy"...the list goes on and on. Hence my analogy on the Gordian Knot used in my book - There is no way to unravel the double bind we are put in - one must 'slice through' with the sword of (their) truth to become free of the systemic madness.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thanks for your validation and response. I like the idea of the baseball bat hitting the mattress because I think I can get more anger out that way. I’m going to buy one.
I just missed out on buying myself a home because of trauma response. Realizing that is what it was helps me to not make that mistake again. Thank you.
This one is really confusing to me.. is this like acting out in anger or subconscious things like eating disorders or something? Bc in my experience, scapegoats are used to not getting any help whatsoever, usually everyone else in the family can easily ask for help and receive whatever they need, the rest of the family goes out of their way to do things for each other, except for the scapegoat. They love throwing you out into the ocean and yelling “see?! You just aren’t swimming hard enough! Its your fault you’re drowning anyway!” Even if they recognize that you need help and see that you are struggling with things on your own, they love criticizing how you’re handling things and even pretending that you are going to ASK them for help so they can rub it in that they wont and that you don’t deserve it. Its like you cant win.
Not all FSA adult survivors experience this particular trauma response. Those who do will take this (unmet in their family of origin, as you point out here in your comment) 'cry for help' response out into the greater world and act it out in their adult relationships but not realize they are doing so. Typically, instead of feeling angry that they are not being heard / helped, they will move into 'toxic shame' and have deep fears of abandonment, etc, which is why the conscious experience of anger can help the survivor get unstuck and begin to progress in their recovery.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseohh okay I think I understand. Thats like when some partners expect the other to react the way they wanted the family to react in a similar situation, and when they cant the person may feel like “this person doesn’t love me anymore, they dont care about me” or they might overreact when things happen that are more about needing the help that they didn’t receive in their family. I think I was a lot like that in my early 20’s unfortunately :(
“The cry for help” trauma response. It’s not even metaphorical for me. Many, many times a day over the last 15 years or so-in my head-I’ll cry out “help me help me help me!” I’ve been thinking how pathetic that is. But I also can’t shake the longing. I honestly can’t wrap my head around how incredibly point for point accurately your work describes me, what I’ve been through, and my responses to it. I had thought no one would ever understand. It’s actually awful to know that SO many others have experienced the same heartache, but I’m so happy to have found this channel.
I'm very glad you're here. I hope that knowing you may be experiencing a complex trauma response is helpful. Linking you to a list of resources I put together here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
As a kid, crying for help to a responsible adult was a gamble with life itself. Trusting the truth to anyone with less acumen than a trusted and talented attorney committed to my cause (along with the ability to pay said attorney), would be an act tantamount to suicide. Abused kids keep the family secrets for a reason.
I am surprised that I've done so well for myself. I don't have a pot to p*ss in and I'm on disability w/CPTSD, autoimmunes and injuries from being dragged and ran over by a stranger in a Tahoe, but even as a child(FSA youngest of 8)I knew there was something really wrong w/all of them. I went NC early, before I even knew what NC or an NPD was. I went NC with everyone and became a hermit so and until I could figure out WTF happened to me exactly and how I could stop being dysregulated at the drop of the hat w/cry response, full amygdala/water boy. I am angry. I was angry when my sister beat the tar outta me at 10, I'd had enough! I started fighting back physically and I was freakishly strong at 10, 11, 12...I made people afraid of me, especially the narc step-fthr. I took great joy in unleashing my can of whoop-*ss on him every time I heard him devalue my mother, I still smile when I think of doing that. They created a monster and I enjoyed it...aimed at them anyways...it wasn't very helpful out in the real world, having all that anger. I was stuck in the anger response for years and years and years. I'm still angry, of course, but I have made a lot of progress on my own(w/God)thank God! Now, with that book on the way, I look forward to healing even more! Thank-you!!! My mom used to say that "temper" was going to get me in trouble...was she really that stupid?
Yes, one whole trauma response, all the major decisions of my life. Never really understood why I "knew" so young I'd never have children. Think its bc I knew I'd show love to them and be seen by family as having emotions forbidden me. After a certain age I maintained a neutral, emotionless face to them. Please address this too if others experience it.
@@Patricia-bd4lvit seems unfair that you miss out on being a parent because you had abusive parents yourself. Can you not move far away and create a separate life? That worked for me
This video made me feel so understood and I frankly have never felt so validated in my experience as now, even after years of therapy from people who have been “trauma therapists”. Thank you truly.
So good to hear. Thank you for being here and for letting me know my work on FSA is helping you. You might check out my book as well - it may fill in some gaps (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed).
you are amazing how you explain reaction to abuse im a scapegoat daughter, now 72yrs old with lupus because of the past but just now realized my whole life was a trauma response and a lie thank you for what you do
You're welcome, Jan. And it really is never too late to recover. Whatever time we have left, we have a sacred obligation to ourselves (and our formerly exiled traumatized parts) to make it our BEST.
I went NC with my abusers including all relatives 8 years ago. I believe that even the new generation think of me as the big bad wolf, some kind of looming legendary bad guy, when the truth is those poor little souls are now being brought up by the monsters. I think of them sometimes and wonder if one of them is now the up and coming scapegoat. My heart breaks for whoever it is.
Wow. Resonates resoundingly. You covered so clearly all scenarios. Many miss the occurrence of chronic illness and/or an injury occurring while tending to the family ‘in need’ (ie, death of one parent, elderly sick parent(s), having a disabled sibling, etc) as a scapegoat. A once ‘free’ and ‘awakened’ scapegoat can return to help family later in crises and roles seem changed (I call it ‘ever-changing alliances’) almost like a ‘love-bombing stage’ and get caught unaware again and super-glue stuck if apparently end of life circumstances seem or are near. Those beautiful qualities often innate to the scapegoat -which you so aptly described in another video- can be deadly later when the scapegoat has been tracking with/sensing the dynamics since childhood and it hits like a ton of bricks later when family must ‘put the house in order’ preparing for end of life etc. A physically ill scapegoat is a double-whammy set up for the most sincere ’cry for help’ response. This ‘cry for help’ response and it’s intricacies you’ve introduced here is very powerful. Thank you. (Add a narcissistic family tree to the mix - the casualties in mind, body, spirits are enormous and heartbreaking ). I’m so glad you suddenly appeared after I’ve been marinating in other experts/therapists etc. Great work! (Apologies for the ramble. It’s a build up after watching a few, so far, of your insightful and educated videos.) So much here: the health of righteous anger reminder, the ‘whole life awakening’ as a trauma response, the overall seriousness of the scapegoat position. It’s biblical: the tribe puts their sins/secrets on the one who appears most vulnerable/the one who sees them and casts them out into the wilderness to perish (along with the true narrative!). I hope all scapegoats can unite in this awareness and raise the bar for civilization. Express that healing anger energy rather than wither in isolation and despair. ❤
Wonderful to have you here, Dorian, and what a remarkable comment - and powerfully written. If you haven't yet read my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed, I feel you might get some more "A-ha!" moments out of it, based on what you have written here. Hope to hear from you again - we do have a lovely community forming here.
You're welcome - Interestingly, the Chinese character for 'Crisis' is the same character used for 'Opportunity'... And anxiety can (at times) also be viewed as excitement!
I am 59 and just feeling anger for the first time in my life. The spell has been broken, I finally woke up. It's a energy transfer from me to you. It's not me, it's you!
Thank you Rebecca..that was very thoughtful..this stuff is very close to home for me. I'm so damn angry because it didn't have to be like this. You're right about the Generational Trauma. It's a Real.Thing..family baggage..
Holy molly, I have been experiencing this alot from being triggered lately and you putting a name to it is so so helpful! I realized I have abandonment issues and when I am in it I know I am acting out but can't control it. Guess that has to do with the amygdala you spoke on. And when I come back down and am feeling better, I realize how out there I was feeling and then I go into feelings of shame, worthlessness, and that I am too needy, and a burden to people I love. I know it's a cry for help but I will even push people away that try to help because I don't want to be a burden. Because during it I will say crazy things. Like I don't deserve love, I'm bad and deserve to be alone or hurtful non true things to people I love, "like you don't really care about me, you dislike me, I know you don't want to be around me..etc. They would say, that's just not true and become sad and frustrated and then I would feel terrible for saying. Also, I used to have the fight response in my family of origin, fight response came from my anger and I did think it was bad, because if I got angry I was torn to sheds and viewed as the worst person with my righteous anger of unfair treatment and unkind and manipulative behaviors made me rightly so angry. But I definitely learned anger, especially as a woman was not tolerated but of course my narcissistic mother could get angry and it was acceptable and she had the worse kind of anger. Would throw plates across the kitchen at the walls and pots at our heads and hammer the walls(this wasn't the healthy kind, where you go to one of the places but in front of her children, it was terrifying and she would lunge at me to hit me and I would push her away, or my brother would grab her away from me or made me stay in a flooded basement, awful stuff..I think I might have had this all my life, maybe I was one of those people, but this information about it is very helpful. Thank you. Sorry long post
Hi Cat, you are not alone. I know this particular trauma response very well myself, and I see this often in my FSA coaching practice also. Today I have compassion for that shamed, scared, 'alone' and seemingly helpless part, and I hope that you are also feeling more compassionate toward this part you identify here in your comment as well, now that you are aware of it and beginning to understand it. Thanks for sharing your experience here, I'm sure many will relate!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you Rebecca. Your response teared me up. Thank you for your understanding, knowledge and compassion. This was a God send for me, related to every single word. Can't thank you enough. You are an angel.
I most definitely don’t say this to hurt you but do you think you may have borderline personality disorder? I think I had it but getting away from narcissistic abusers and learning about narcissism helped me to get rid of it. Just a thought because I feel like I can relate to you some.😊
@@christar9527 No, that doesn't hurt my feelings. I went to a professional years ago because my narc mother made made me the family patient and said I had that which was a total projection now that I think about it, and the therapist determined I did not have that and said I had PTSD and sent me to a trauma specialist. Alot of people get misdiagnosed, my mother had borderline and narcissism which are very closely related. No, don't have that, but the help I got for PTSD was way more helpful because I find complex PTSD actually more serious but that is just my opinion. I am on the healing journey tho. In my comment is alot from my past when I was triggered and also had alot of reactions to being mentally and emotionally abused and manipulated. That is not borderline, I was a full on scapegoat in my childhood and into adulthood. But thank you. Cry for help is just another form of the fight, flight freeze fawn reactions to triggers from trauma. I also do think what she said about learning healthy anger is important. That is underrated. Being angry is a normal reaction to being mistreated and if you learned to surpress it it like most scapegoats not healthy.
@@catzee4720yes, a lot of people get misdiagnosed, but they actually was being abused! But there’s also a lot of stigma on BPD and some sources help a lot, like Dr Fox is very compassionate and a great professional. BPD seems like a diagnosis that is just in DSM-5, but not C-PTSD, so people with C-PTSD get one…
hi. I have been through the anger, the sibling betrayal and surprise scapegoating, I have gone no contact as of a year ago. The problem is that I am in a completely collapsed situation. I have more than FSA abuse I am dealing with and a whole bunch of chronic illnesses as well as a loss of so much independence and success I already had spent a lifetime fighting my Malignant Narcissistic father to accomplish... So now I am fighting my body and my mind and the system to survive. Time feels like it is running out and all these people in my HUGE family have managed to get away with damage from all the childhood abuse into Adulthood as recent as financial abuse to this day causing me CPTSD - clean free! Learning all of this is great and gives me some relief. But if it is not acknowledged on a larger scale it is so exhausting trying to get the appropriate help, with little money, and no legal resources. Unless of course your abuser is a Weinstien, Epstien or ... Thank you so much.
This is an aspect of family scapegoating abuse (with attendant C-PTSD) that was validated via my years of qualitative FSA research. A clinically significant percentage of respondents were suffering from chronic illnesses - many of them auto-immune. I myself have four (possibly five) auto-immune diseases, for example. This is why I am doing all I can to bring attention to family scapegoating abuse and its effects: There needs to be more support for survivors from society and within the Mental Health field as well.
I was a scapegoated kid and when I was in high school, I joined the gymnastics team. We were terrible, lost every meet but it felt so good to run and flip and flip and flip. It helped tremendously having that outlet. For awhile I would ‘box’ with a hanging weight in the cellar. Later, after I injured my back, I took walks for hours in all kinds of weather. A physical outlet - just dancing in your chair even - can help you work out some pain and learn how to deal with the challenges.
This video helped to really feel seen and it takes away a good portion of shame in regards to some behaviors in response to being treated so badly. Learning about this trauma response helps me understand so much more. Really does explain a lot. Thank you.
Dr. Manderville, I just got off line with my therapist and what I need most from her is to acknowledge the great loss scapegoats suffered. She say nothing most of the time and when I ask her a question she says she won’t diagnose my family members. I’m left feeling like I’m feeling sorry for myself, like if I’m blaming everything on someone else. Should I keep looking.
Joanna, for legal and ethical reasons I cannot advise you on this, but I think that if you listen closely to yourself you will have the answer you seek...It is true we cannot diagnose anyone but our clients, btw, but that is different than needing /wanting a response when sharing our experiences of others in our life, particularly if it has been a source of pain and inhibited your 'true self' expression (which I am addressing in detail in a two-part video starting this Saturday).
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 I'm not familiar with those therapists but I wish you luck... I am having good results with a mace energy practitioner now. I've had one session and Felt dramatic results where I have done years and years of other therapies. It may be something you want to look into
I was in this place for a long time. High functioning, but always there deep inside. I kept cycling the question, how can they (narc siblings) make up the most ludicrous story and be handed a large check? The scapegoat on the other hand can be struggling as a single parent but viewed as a source of income. Is Rod Serling on my balcony? Righteous Rage is the perfect name for it. We have to get the imposition of baggage out of us in order to authentically move forward. Thank you for lifting others into the light of reality. Namaste 💜
You're welcome. This particular message (video) is not easy for some to digest. Already lost a subscriber because of it, but clinically, what I share here is not only based in fact, but is a lived reality for some FSA adult survivors who wonder why they are 'stuck' and can't seem to progress in their recovery. Glad you got over this particular hump. Speaking of Rod Serling, check out my two 'Bizarre Reality' videos here, if you haven't yet. My guess is you will relate to at least one of them.
So many here have felt that way. Linking you to a list of resources I created for FSA adult survivors, in case you see something of interest: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Yes ma'am...the whole metabolic panel. Bedridden for 2 years a few yrs back. Separated but struggling as he's trying to push his way back into my life. As an empathy... it's hard to not be kind but I'm tired of my kindness and energy being zapped. I feel the separation has only benefited me and my health. In need of closing the door and moving forward with my life as scary as that is with this type. Need to break the cycle of abuse.
Thank you!! I've been stuck in this for 8 months & retramatzed repeatedly as NO ONE would help, listen, believe as the public smear campaign grew and I lost more& more each day. No cops, lawyers, friends, family would do anything to help. Ran out of town. Had to flee for my safety. I'm picking up the baton again right now& found more research for lawyers. I hope I have better luck now that I have better understanding of what the hell has happened
Good riddance to them all. And leaving town for your own safety is the best thing you could do. You can't heal your psyche unless you remove yourself from the toxic environment. It will get better. Best wishes❣️
I just happened on your video. 65 Had no idea there was any help out there that hit the nail on the head. I am feeling desperate and find myself saying "I need help"! I've ordered your book. Rejected blamed. Hope to be able to find someone soon!
So glad you found your way here - I believe you will find my introductory guide to what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA) helpful if you related strongly to this video. Be sure to check out my list of playlists on the home page of this channel.
Scapegoat and Pleaser: I said NO, when someone tried to bully me into picking up my sister at a store when she was in trouble. I know in my heart I can not handle her and that she should return to her home. My sister is not speaking to me and she did not ask me to pick her up. I said NO and it was not easy. She can not stay with me as I previously allowed her to stay with me when she was in trouble as she tried to break up my marriage, and acted in inappropriate ways. My sister is angry and jealous of me and she makes it difficult for me to help her. I feel hurt. Saying NO was difficult but the right thing to do for both of us.
It is great to get a reply to my comment. It means my comment was acknowledged. Now I know why you wear the glasses. I don't make many comments and quite often in life in general you don't get a reply. I am 69, the oldest of 9 children and I was the scapegoat. I have had a lot of Counselling over the years but Scapegoating was never really mentioned. It is a horrible practice and it doesn't matter how good, how educated, how competent, how successful you are, you will still be seen as inferior and that came primarily from their Mother and they all followed suit. It made my life hell. That's enough said I think for now.
Hi Frank, I do hope you will read my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed. Understanding this form of abuse can be very healing. Also, there are a few playlists on the home page of my channel here that you may also want to check out, as well as my free articles on FSA here: scapegoatrecovery.com/blog.
I remember this pinterest post that said there are 2 types of anger, wet anger which is when you are powerless and crying and feel helpless and then dry anger when you are productive and self protective and not taking any crap.
I like that - very fitting! Thanks for sharing it. I've heard the 'wet' and 'dry' analogy used in regard to spirituality (esoteric) versus religion (exoteric) a well.
I just finished watching this week's video about the "cry for help" trauma response. I went through the 1st 4 phases of fawn, freeze, fight or flight responses. But I never thought about a cry for help response --- but I felt that way about who will help? Doesn't anyone see what's going on? I was there day to day facing the mother & daughter bullying. Felt like there was no way out. I have been out for years now and starting to re-live my life in a good way. " Rejected, Shamed, & Blamed" came through the mail at 3pm Tuesday. I was reading it at 3:01pm😁 I cried a lot at first because it seems like it was written for me. When I got to the Chapter describing the attributes of the scapegoat...I was so happy that I survived and felt like wearing a shirt with...." I am a Proud FSA Survivor"written on it. I am really enjoying this book. Thank you again ❤
So good to hear, BB. I hope you find my introductory guide on FSA helpful - AND validating! Your pain - as with ALL FSA adult survivors - deserves to be heard and acknowledged. I hope my book and my other FSA offerings give you a sense of that validation at last.
You explained everything scapegoats feel like and best of all, you understand what happened because you survived. Thanks to you making known FSA, more people will finally understand what goes on in these dysfunctional homes. I thought back on the " flight" response. 2 yrs ago as I was getting the mail from the box, my sister, the one I talk about, drove up in front of my house. She & her daughters got out of their car. Her oldest daughter acts just as cunning as she does. They smiled and walked towards me. I got a sickening dread and a pit in my stomach. I ran into the house and slammed the door in their faces. I was very uncomfortable and had flashbacks because prior to that day, I hadn't seen her in 3 yrs. Last visit was unpleasant. I really enjoyed the video today about the " cry for help response" . I am getting stronger now. I don't think I'd run from her today. Thank you again ❤
BB, that is a perfect example of how the 'flight' trauma response can help us to survive. I remember distinctly the day I stopped freezing and fleeing / 'running' and finally stood my ground AND stood up for myself - It didn't help the situation any (likely worsened it) but that DID mark the day my deep recovery from FSA began.
I am so happy you stood your ground ❤ It was worth it and now you are such an Amazing Inspiration to us all ❤ Each week, we look forward to learning more about the scapegoating situations we were put into by a damaged person ( s). I am glad we have a "voice" through you because you are sincere and speak from experience and wisdom. My neice will be in another generation of abuse. She mourns the suicide of her half brother. Her mom , the sister I talk about, her older sister & their dad are hard on her. The dad was hard on the son who committed suicide. They punish her for the most petty offenses. ( over sleeping, missing school bus). My mom helps administer what type of punishment should be used. They took her to a therapist. She made progress. Then they removed her from therapy. She is the nicest child. I offer her encouragement whenever I can. I share with her what I am learning. She is 15. She knows she can talk to me anytime. Thank you for helping me so I can help her ❤
Thanks, BB. Family scapegoating is a FAMILY (systemic) problem, yet the target of FSA is seen as 'the problem'. I hope that your niece will also learn this truth. Learning about the family 'Identified Patient' (IP) as discussed within the Family Systems field may be helpful to you both as well, in addition to my own work on FSA.
Thank you for letting me know, Michelle. Glad you're here. Here's a resource list I put together for adult survivors of FSA in case you are looking for more support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
It really can feel that way. But with whatever time is left, reclaiming one's truth and one's narrative - however difficult or challenging - is worth it. You might want to read my introductory book on this form of systemic/family abuse, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed', to learn more.
Hi, I wanted to call mom now after 1 month of NC and ask to talk to me nicely at least once a month...she will maybe scream or say that I have to say sorry for something. I'm so sad. She hasn't called me at all for the whole month. Before, it was 6 months. It's always me who has to make the first move... I don't want to do it but I miss her a lot sometimes. She might just say mean things. My psychologist said Come back to your inner child first before seeking help from others. It has been very difficult now during PMDS...I crave intimacy much more, feel so alone and abandoned. Feeling hopeless. sometimes I doubt everything. I guess it got worse after my narc dad’s message yesterday. He wrote that I live in a made up world and that I have to forget the past "just like this, immediately"... he wrote also that he knows everything....he has never taken me seriously. What should I do? Need some encouragement and support... Maybe to text that I want her to know that I love you? Once I called her and asked to tell me she loves me, when my narc ex hurt me, so she replied: “Why should I pretend saying what I don’t feel right now?”
Sounds very painful. Per my UA-cam disclaimer, I am not able to directly advise those who are not my clients. I’m glad you have a Psychologist you are working with. Did you already read my book, ‘Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed’? If not, I suspect you may find it helpful and you can also bring it in to your therapy sessions to discuss parts you strongly relate to.
Grateful for discovering your channel! You’re content is spot on. You’re not only very knowledgeable, but one of the rare human beings who are genuinely and sincerely passionate. Humanity more than ever desperately needs to listen, and learn…to mindfully accept that our current disconnected narcissist-ish family “culture” is giving rise to the highest ever teen suicide rate. Loneliness is a PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS AND ONE OF THE LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH. WE collectively must put aside egos and practice graceful, empathetic, helpful connections with others. There is too much judgement intolerance, disconnect and also physical distance between us. We’ve taken the wrong “fork in the road”. Imminent hope WE take the path that ultimately leads to a positive, impactful generational turnaround. 💚🌍💚
I was out on medical leave when you commented here many moons ago - Great to see you became a member recently and what you express here is powerful. Not sure if you saw the PSA I did on FSA when I first started the channel in hopes of it being shared and raising awareness - Here's the video if you are interested: ua-cam.com/video/ar426kSxEE4/v-deo.html
"You have a right to take up room in this world". Wow. I do! I have a right to take up room in this world! Thanks infinitely for this affirmation. I've been always doubting if I did. Or trying to "earn" that inborn right.
Wow, as painful as all this is for me. I am so flippin relieved that i am not really at all the problem...but rather a text book case of a person in trauma response. Happy and pissed...hopeful for a place to start finally. But so devastating to learn at 50. Half my life i went along with it all. Ugh. I need to go sit still for a while now. Thank goodness i found you, i ordered the book, here in 2 days. ❤❤
Welcome, Caroline - I'm glad you've already ordered my book, and am equally glad you're here. My playlist for survivors, clinicians, and therapists may help you better understand the type of trauma you may be experiencing. You might want to check that out as well (watch oldest to most recent).
Pure OCD, people pleasing, thinking i don't deserve happiness, only now realising that it's not me, its the past when I didn't know any better. The guilt and anxiety. They don't belong here. ❤❤❤❤
You might find my FSA recovery Affirmations playlist helpful. It is included in this list of resources I put together for adult survivors: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you for this video. I have been feeling like so many years wasted in this trauma response, my previous enmeshment and codependency until I understood while I was in therapy. I it’s been a process and I have felt so much grief and anger over the things I could have done, who I could have been- so much younger and earlier - had I not been the kept down scapegoat by my mother and her entire toxic family system. They ALL isolated this part of the family so I grew up almost in a cult of their own making, of their never tried to acknowledge and heal generational trauma and abuses, so it all flowed into the next generations in survival mechanisms. Many of them narcissists, borderline personality, psychopaths, schizophrenic dx. Omg to hear that I can appreciate that I survived all that and be out of it and create my own life in my late 60s. I have been surprised at the anger that rose up from so deeply inside that I never knew I had it. I thank my healing and God for the safety I am in now to be able to explore this mess of anger and the intensities have lessened. 🙏
Very glad you're here. Linking you to my list of resources in case you'd like additional information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
The ANGER ❤ helped me to change my life. It helped me go no contact with manipulative people, it helps me protect my boundaries in everyday life... Anger is the healthies emotion 💪☺️ I give a shit about what people think about me and my reactions-when I feel anger, I am holy right to act by it. Thanks to anger, rage and disgust, I am slowly starting to have more healthy and supportive relationships...❤
Anger and what I call "righteous rage" can indeed play critical roles in one's recovery from FSA. I discuss this in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/2Lo8nWGIZUM/v-deo.html
Denise, I read your other comment (can't find it now) regarding your move to Mexico, etc. I've been where you are, and not that long ago. You CAN get through this. Sending you support and light!
Rebecca, your insights have been a lifeline. In my scapegoat experience I was trained not to ask for any kind of help through any method including literally crying for help. Others could simply cry and rage without offering the slightest effort toward justification and this would garner them the attention and sympathy they desired - but never move the family, nor any individual, forward in any way. Looking back I can easily see the manipulation involved. As confusing as all this was and still can be one thing is clear: I was operating under a completely different set of rules than others in my family. They all understood this on some level but I was very slow to pick up on it. To some extent everyone cooperated with a delusion that we supported each other and were even an "ideal" family no matter what the facts elucidated. As time went on my cries for help became very rational and specific requests for help/working together which the family considered my abusing them - abuse here defined as a request to be heard and included. Of course they were already working together - no wonder I sounded crazy to them. I hope it is some sort of progress to get to the end of writing this and just chuckle. Love to all of you surviving these sorts of absurdities and unjust challenges. Your strength inspires me daily. Anyone living near the Twin Cities, I'd love to meet up.
I was just thinking about you and hoping to hear from you again. All you say here is spot on. My newly coined term for this family shared distorted reality is ‘Folie a Family’. I particularly appreciate your pointing out that when your ‘cries for help’ became specific and rational you were seen as ‘the abuser’. That is worthy of an entire video, so I will put it on my list. I remember when I went through this stage. On one occasion, at a family event when I was communicating in a healthy and boundaried way, a relative yelled this at me: “STOP TALKING LIKE A THERAPIST!!!” That’s what we call in the Family Systems field the ‘change back’ strategy - the subtext being, ‘We are uncomfortable with the ‘new’, boundaried you. We do not feel in control. We need you to become small and quiet again" (or the adoring audience, when in a narcissistic family system). I imagine you relate, as will many here.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I like the "Folie a Family" term! It's stunningly impressive you can keep track of any of your "flock." I've just needed to slow down and back off a little lately with my healing - let some things quietly sit for a while as I enjoy smelling the Roses. I was in a difficult place for a while but I feel much better now than in a long, long time. Just trying to honor some of the mysterious aspects of pacing. I'm extremely grateful that you didn't fall for demands to change back (to their scapegoat) and ask that, having found what seems from here to be your true mission based on your true self, you continue talking like a therapist at TOP VOLUME!!! Be good to yourself today! 🧡💚💜
I never heard of these and been researching scapegoating for almost a decade now. I got this big time from my family and at the job. My family taught me I would be extremely punished for standing up for myself so I learned to go to others for interventions. Many people don't want to rock the status quo or believe people are intentionally malicious so they question and attack the person who is crying for help. When I read about "Learned Helplessness" in psych class, it resonated with me so hard. But bringing it up to people, even some in therapist positions, got me the same "that's impossible, you want this, you're the cause" blaming that caused the learned helplessness response in the first place.
Glad you found this video useful. If my work on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA) is new to you, you may want to check out my introductory book on FSA, included on this resource list I put together for FSA adult survivors:www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
It is comforting to have that space of understanding here. My mother has become paranoid about me since I stayed with her during lockdowns, and she couldn't stand my mere presence, acting as a victim. She's 70. Now she has been giving me silent treatment for almost a year. She projects onto me negativity and reasons why she feels unwell. (but keeps in touch with my estranged brother). I have had depression and been isolated where I live, unemployed.. I still had my stuff at her place, she didn't respond my messages for months, so I knocked at her door in December and insisted so she opened but acted as if I was assaulting her! I got part of my stuff and was hoping for reconciliation but she later texted my visit shocked her and she was so unwell the emergency services came and I am a psychopath... This really hurt and shocked me to be put in the role of aggressor and rejected, it was Christmas, I spent it alone. I couldn't take the rest of my stuff. I recently messaged after 5 months. She sent a letter, she said she hoped I am working on my my life and becoming autonomous, she doesn't want to reconnect and she doesn't want to be under my "grip" or influence (English isn't our language) anymore. She doesn't want any arguments like in the past years and she makes it all about me. As if I caused it all. She suggests I can write her to see how far my reflection has gone so she can feel safe. I feel so gaslit and I don't agree with her narrative. I feel like she takes no responsibility for how unfair and abusive she has been. It is extremely hard for me to get my life together as I have no support (just emotional, knowing she cares) and I feel helpless and toxic shame. This letter made me cry because her narrative is so different to mine, that I don't see how we could reconcile. I don't agree with what she says about me. I have issues yes, but I am not a horrible person who mistreated her. I am sad because I feel like my well-being would be to detach and grieve her.
Hi Sarah, this sounds very painful, indeed. Not sure if you read my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) but in it, I discuss Dr Jennifer Freyd's DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender). You can find her work on DARVO online, and you may want to look further into it as it may possibly shed more light on your family experiences.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you Rebecca, I will read your book. Your message means a lot to me. Her mother also had paranoid attitude towards my aunt in her older years. I think my mother identifies to her mom as she is aging and feeling vulnerable and sees me as an intruder. Because she still pays for one of my bills for medical care, do I deserve to be shamed and rejected so that I individuate? Feeling so hopeless that I will go to my hometown, and stay at my narcissistic controlling father just because I can't afford a hotel, and I will walk on eggshells. He was the most blatant difficult parent, but now I can really count on nobody and I feel I can't make it on my own. My ex boyfriend ended our connection at the same time my mother cut me off. He also is a scapegoat but unaware. So much grieving lately. Your work has been a blessing, thank you for what you do! ❤
Hi, I feel incredibly sorry for you! I have similar experience. My mom is either a narcissist or a sociopath. She can’t stand being near me more than a short period of time. Last time we talked she said that I’m repeating everything 25 times and that she gets tired of me after 5 minutes. Then she said a video she knew would trigger me and I’ve been so hurt. So I messaged her and since then been NC. For 1 month. No calls from her, nothing. Before it was 6 months and it was me who called her and she said very hurtful things and also that she doesn’t want to hear anything negative and anything about her being a bad mother…so I relate. I’m thinking about going to ACA meetings again…
@@dariosergevna HI Dasha, thank you for sharing and the kind words. I am sorry you can relate to my situation. How awful that feels to have your mother rejects you and be so critical. It would be nice to have someone who can understand that in real life, because I have no one that understands. My mother said the exact same thing as yours, that she doesn't want to hear any criticism and negative about her. She can't stand any criticism, even if it is to reconcile and set new foundation. She sent me a letter, in response to mine because I needed to get stuff back from her place. In that letter she victimises herself, paints me as the villain, who controlled her and manipulated her since I was19! I felt awful reading that narrative. She still says she is open to talk, but not yet, she still needs time (it's been a year already!). She doesn't ask about my life at all, wants me to be fully autonomous. She said she never would have thought she had such relationships with her daughter, but then put it on me, my flaws and aggressiveness (reference to when I showed up at her door to get things back because she wouldn't respond in 6 months)! It's like Rebecca said in her videos, she can't love me but it's because of who I am, so it's my fault! Have these ACA meetings helped you?
I discuss repressed anger in this video here: ua-cam.com/video/2Lo8nWGIZUM/v-deo.html and have videos on what I call 'righteous rage' due to scapegoat-fueled injustices. Here's an FSA survivor resource list I put together in case you are wanting additional information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I have truly enjoyed listening to you. I did not know about FSA or Scapegoating but it is just what I believe has been going on with me for years now. I am 70 and have experienced estrangement from my siblings and our son, only child. He seems to be narcissistic but we believe his wife was first before they married and he has learned her ways, or he is just trying to survive his marriage. He never showed us disrespect prior to meeting her. But the scapegoating has showed up in that situation too. Not just with my siblings but my siblings have rejected, shamed, and blamed me for years. None of my parents did this, however, but my siblings just automatically see me as the golden child cause I am the baby, I guess. But my mother who I was raised by and my grandmother, were good to me and I got spanked as much as my sister did who was 4 yrs older than me. All other siblings were grown and lived with my dad after he and mom divorced. I was about 3 when that happened and their relationship as far as I remember was violent, not happy, lots of anger, no nurturing done. I got some nurturing from my grandmother who basically raised me and my sister cause mom worked. Lots of anger and violence in mom and grandmother's relationship too. So trauma is at least what I experienced as a child. I do suffer from the narcissistic abuse as well with son and wife. My social complex is damaged I know. I always feel like a sore thumb around people like my church ladies. No close and personal connection there. It isn't the way I want to live my last years. I appreciate your channel and what I am learning here. May God bless you as you continue to help those like me to learn how to break out of our stuck selves. ❤
Wonderful to have you here. I have various playlists on the home page of my channel here you may want to check out. You might relate to both dysfunctional and narcissistic scapegoating abuse, for example (some families are both). Also linking you to my updated FSA adult survivor resource list in case something catches your eye: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I really appreciate your validation of the things that have happened to people. I remember being told by my siblings that I just “Needed to forgive” right after I was being led to believe the things I experienced either “Never happened” or that I was somehow so “out of control” that the physical beatings were actually necessary for me. It was in my late 30’s that I received the shock reality that both my sisters bought into the scapegoat narrative about me. Sometimes I fantasize that I’ll write an “fictional” Amazon book and call it “Scapegoat” as an outlet for my frustrations about the abuses and injustices that happened to me. I feel like it was a type of terrorism that happened to me in the home. My stepfather used to stare me down wide eyed when I’d walk through the room even to use the bathroom…I learned quickly that one glance back resulted in a beating. It was a sick game that started when I was 11. I learned quick to keep my gaze away or else. For years I was very intimidated by African men and refused to date one. A friend called me racist for saying I just couldn’t. I now realize it is because of the association of my stepfather being black. And I’m not racist at all. Just traumatized. As far as my life just being one big trauma…I realized that a couple of years ago. One source of comfort is that even non traumatized people can waste their lives just being too busy. So, maybe this was a blessing. Because I have resolved to appreciate and live my best life moving forward. I will fight for my healing and my ability to break through the barriers.
Yes, it's a shocker when you realize the siblings have bought into (and are reinforcing) the 'scapegoat' narrative. If you haven't yet watched my video here on scapegoating and sibling estrangement, you may want to.
So true. I feel this pattern with not accessing anger very clearly. I feel sadness, shame and a lot of guilt. I know I am angry. The tricky bit for me is being criticised for my anger, sometimes before I even recognize it in myself. My mum could say to me when I felt annoyed by something. "I'm always afraid of you. You're always angry at me, I see your lips getting all stiff and I can tell you're angry." I felt so stuck then. Before I could even articulate to myself why I felt annoyed by something she blamed me for my negative feelings. And the times I actually got angry she would blow at me. I think a lot about it and wonder if I express my feelings inappropriately. I try to unlearn that feelings of anger is bad and try to view them instead as useful information. But it's hard. My mum could really rage at me when I was little. I have never raged at her but still it's my anger that is a problem in the family.
Understood. And true for so many survivors of FSA who did NOT experience the 'fight' trauma response. There is a book called 'The Dance of Anger' - link here - it may help you: www.amazon.com/Dance-Anger-Changing-Patterns-Relationships/dp/0062319043
Indeed!! I want to express anger but I cannot… I’m afraid for being angry. I’m in the Netherlands and they don’t have therapie for this…they say I have a personality disorder…(!?). My story is too long to tell, with mental abuse, scapegoating and when I stood up for myself as the scapegoat I got heavily physically abused by my sister and mother (sister 50 and mother 75 years old--ever heard of this?). I am the youngest of the family. My mom died few years ago and now my sister went of with the heritage and gives me the silent treatment..now for 4 years. So thought I will do what I always wanted and did an education to be a dog therapist, got my diploma one month ago… But I’m so insecure to start up my own company, as I was always told that I’m not worth it and am stupid. So now scared to set it up… as the toxic shame is getting in my way. I have good qualities I know! And always was a dog person, since 5 years old. I’m a quite good Asian cook, as my parents had a haute cuisine restaurant…as I could not cook my mom said. But animals are my thing, as they don’t have a bad mentality… I have good qualities, I know that… but the shame is so in my way
Congratulations on getting your diploma and following your dream to work with animals! It is so important to understand toxic shame - which is what you are likely suffering from if you were in the family scapegoat role. I encourage you to read my book, Rejected, Shamed and Blamed, which has a chapter on Toxic Shame. I also suggest you watch this video here: ua-cam.com/video/OBo4ky0ADTU/v-deo.html
My only daughter got married last Saturday and my family was all included but me. She blames me for all that she hates in this life and she is 31. I am broken so badly currently because what she is doing is dividing and conquering and I am ALONE. I am agoraphobic now because of so much shame. My youngest son died and she said I was not able to be a mother to her. That is so sick of her to say. They see me as crazy though. This life is torture
So sorry to hear what you're going through. I'm in a similar situation but I'm now estranged from my daughter and my grandchildren. Hope you can stay strong and try not let shame get a grip on you. You're not alone.🙏
@hippieporium7836 So very sorry to hear this. Here's a survivor Resource list I put together in case you need more support - Check out Rhonda's private Facebook group, there are several women there, including Rhonda, who have also been cut off by their adult child. Rhonda just made a video on this, in fact, over on FB. Resource list - and link to Rhonda's private group - here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I had to move across the country to get away from my family. The Tai Kwon Do classes in college also helped. It helped to remove the false imprint, the false identity, that abusive sisters project onto you. It inspires a more powerful and more accurate image of the self. When a sister visited recently I felt all the judgement and pain projected onto me all over again. Without words. I could barely breathe during her visit. It’s extremely destructive. I have had health challenges for the past 30 years or so and it is clearly tied. Agree it’s necessary to get in touch with the rage, of course don’t stay there.
FSA and being activated in the presence of scapegoating / projecting family members definitely can result in somatic symptoms, which can be rooted in complex trauma. Here's a related video you may want to watch: ua-cam.com/video/ytSdn8nQCBg/v-deo.html
Why do people who are narcissistic continuously bring up when they helped you in the past. I had a family member who loaned me 500.00 years ago, I paid that back plus a super high interest fee. And I paid it back in 2 months as agreed. Years later I keep getting told about but I helped you back when, you should help me any time I want something I helped you.. remember the 500. Bucks I gave you. They conveniently leave off I paid them 1100.00 for that 500.00 and tell others I owe them for that loan. They get mad when I won't help them when I knowing now who and what they are and I want to stear clear. But they then slander me to friends and family alike saying how I am a horrible person for putting distance between us. My friend get friend request from this family member and if they accept the family member tells them how awful of a person I am and lie and all. Why do they do this???
I can't believe I'm hearing this =- now, at age 75! My parents are deceased and I have gone NC with my siblings. I despise them the most in the world for not only allowing all this to happen, but also for particpiating in it. My best respionse was to blend in with the walls. If I could have been dead I would have, abd I have a very hard time caring about myself. I now want nothing to do with not only the people who talk about me behind my back and contradict me, but also the dopes here who listen to them. It takes two to tango. I feel, if you want to listen to them without checking with me first, them go for it, but I don't want anything to do with you.
Makes perfect sense to me. And it never ceases to amaze me how rarely anyone is interested in hearing the scapegoated person's story/truth. I hope you find my videos here helpful. If this is new to you, you may also want to read my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
I'm in the "cry for help" stage or maybe it's fawning. I don't know anymore? Still stuck in this very venomous environment and my body and spirit are so utterly depleted. I have no physical or mental strength to get out. They've sucked the life out of me. And ever since my car died I have not been able to leave the house all day to go to work. Not allowed to use either of my mother's cars just to work a job and make money. So I'm trapped. My cry for help is to God. He's the only one who can save me at this point. I've tried everything. And my 5 siblings who continuously verbally and mentally pummel me LOVE that I'm stuck at home b/c they can now control me further by making me take care of my mother, the mentally abusive queen.
Hi Cindy, I'm linking you to an updated list of FSA recovery resources I put together, you may find support via the private Facebook group Rhonda runs (included in this list): www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Good. Because that’s just another way to try to control the false narrative. Along with things like “If you were spiritually healed you would not feel anger.” That’s a load of crap.
This sounded interesting - because I wondered if it might apply to me - but when I was about 3 minutes in, I thought "she is getting lost into her own thinking here, not actually communicating what she wants to communicate" and then you have to step into her way of reasoning to figure out what the point is that she is trying to get across. (I am sure that I often do that too! because yes, it is fascinating, the learning process and developing the insights.) Basically, it seems to be the following. There are four major trauma responses - fawn (which is the one that sociopaths don't get because it is motivated by fear and the will to survive and sociopaths rarely understand fear), fight, flight, and freeze - but if you are a child, there is a fifth one: ASK FOR HELP. Once you're an adult, though, this become completely ineffective and very limiting, but you don't realize that this is what you are doing. It's just something that you'll have to unlearn. How do you know that you're doing this? When you notice that nobody gives a shit. When nobody responds to your cries for help. DON'T GET ANGRY WITH ME NOW. WAIT. It's more complicated than this because this also often happens to people who are NOT family scapegoats. People do not like to be confronted with ideas that clash with their beliefs. This is neuroscience. It is metabolically costly for the brain. Once you realize that - painful as it may be - you realize that you've basically taken back power. It is in your own hands now. You do whatever you need to do. FOR YOU. For yourself.
Thank you for this feedback. I do not script my videos. This has pros and cons. According to my many subscribers here, there are more pros than cons, and so I will continue to do what is most comfortable and natural for me. My articles on these topics are more clinical and succinct. You can check these out at scapegoatrecovery.com/blog - they are free. My introductory book on FSA also is brief and concise, but dense.
Have you ever looked at it from the empaths perspective of absorbing others anger energy while already having their own, and when narcicistic rage meets an empaths own? I feel we're frying our energetic circuits, I get stuck in freeze so I don't spew the verbal venom I know I'm capable of. We really do not have common knowledge to or access to the examples in society that we need... How to express anger and rage appropriately. Would be great to see mainstream appropriate anger management skills taught.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I just watched it, thank you!! And it raises more connect the dots in my own long drawn out, DIY "anti therapist" recovery, that I'd like to share. More rabbit holes for you too! I'd like to offer what has helped me. I see this as psycho, SPIRITUAL, emotional abuse. (Narcissistic abuse kills the spirit, and we stop participating fully in life, suicidal thoughtsand ideation has been in my life since 15, I'm 53 now)... As long as we only address mind/thoughts and not the body/physical =energetic/spirit, we're still in half measures. And compartmentalized/ still disaccociating pieces of ourselves. Mindfulness is incredibly important, and still is missing a key component. The physical recovery, I would love for you to look into and hopefully collaborate with a few teachers I've watched? All can be found on youtube. Christina Lopes, "The heart Alchemist" explains the 'trapped energies in our chakra's, she breaks down to ages of trauma too - in a way like no other. And ways to release this and heal our energetic bodies. (It would be interesting to know how many survivors like I did, turn to bdsm where there is SSC agreements and boundaries for power exchange games, (and literally beating/grown up style spanking the energies back into motion). Dr Joe Dispenza gives us power back over healing our bodies. With meditation. He is a bit technical in explaining for my knowledge base, but ridiculously effective. And has the science to back it up. Abraham Hicks book "Ask and its Given" has processes that can change our inner talk to self care instead of destruction. It helped train 'the pessimist' right out of my ruminating though patterns. The Holistic Psychologist, Nicole also has a very nurturing and loving way as well. And finally a statement that I'd heard and repeated to a friend who said it really gave her power back to hear: "This hasn't happened TO me, but FOR me". If we look at "this pain" as a lesson for our 'eternal souls growth' to learn from in this existance 'Earth School of hard knocks' we become more impowered. I hope this helps open the Apothecary drawers and dump these ingredients in a big pile so we can become the "twin flame" in our own lives,"to become fully whole beings". Thank you for your extensive work. Bless you!
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads.
2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa.
Hi, I’d really love to read your book but it’s very hard for me to read, so I listen to audiobooks. Are you planning to make one?
Thank you Rebecca! You are so interesting. I feel like you are talking to me. I resonate with what you are saying. Absolutely agree about 'anger'. Oh yes I at times feel so much anger for being treated so poorly by my family. I'm the scapegoat. I'm 63yrs young. It took me all these years to understand my 92yr old father is a covert narc! It was a pivotal moment..I thought can this really be? My sister and her family are all narcs as well. I had aggressive breast cancer 2017..months of chemo plus I have fibromyalgia. I got told I was needy etc etc! Abused! Was expected to travel to look after my father while I was recovering from chemo. I'm an empath. I didn't know what I know now. My eyes are fully open. No more making excuses because they are 'family'. I went no contact 9months ago. I am fortunate enough to have a supportive and loving husband and son plus great friends so I have survived this betrayal from my family aka 'the terrorists' and now I am stronger and value my self worth so much more. I love who I am and will not take any nonsense from anyone. I quietly walk away. No drama!
Love and blessings to you all 💞🌹
I was empowered recently when I spoke up to a local contractor who got really angry with me for speaking up about what I needed. Initially he ghosted me and never finished the work. I was so stressed out. However due to a family emergency I had to leave town for a few weeks and was able to get relief from the stress of it. When I returned his employer brought a different one and told me not to worry about the other guy because no one had ever told him the truth before and he deserved it.
Now things are getting done and I feel empowered! Small victory but needed
I think I'm equally angry at those who stood silently by while I was being sliced to death by my mother. I went no contact with not just my immediate family but all the relatives as well. It just felt pointless and too-much-too-late. They don't know me, and I don't want to know people like them. The sense of freedom, empowerment, and life-affirming realness are simply priceless.
Love your new hair color!
Thanks, Anne - It was only temporary though...! As I said in a recent video: Silence Is Complicity. Whether the silence is due to a shared projection process or not, the result is the same for the FSA target, which is how betrayal trauma can also happen as a feature of FSA.
Hi, so proud of you for making this decision! I’ve done the same. Trying to stay in NC with my mom and getting back to NC with my dad after some failed attempts to connection…
@@dariosergevna Thank you. Freedom is delicious!
Totally feel that. My FOO states that since I have nothing to do with them, I'm not allowed to communicate with my extended family. Deaths, serious accidents they have determined I'm not allowed to know. When my extended family learned this, they were flabbergasted.
I had to do the same. I love this site bc we're like a tribe and we love each other and get it. ❤
I'm one of those that can say, "My whole life has been a trauma response." Thank you SO MUCH for these absolutely wonderful videos!
You're welcome - and thank you!
So accurate. This is me. Will I ever wake up from it, though?
@@lwgg742 It seems you already are...!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you :)
Describes my life from age 10 to my age now, 48.
And OH YES, I spent my life looking for someone to rescue me. What a painful journey.
It is, indeed. One I hope to continue to publicize far and wide.
And guess what? No one is coming.
Same and the one I found was an abuser himself
Indeed
Scapegoat followed suite from my mother to my sister, then miserable cousins, plus
I lost a career.
No contact w sister for 23 yr now & cousins 14 years now.
Mother died 18 years ago.
I was broken by 20 years old.
I am in my late 50s now and
I look forward to aiding myself in healing emotionally and spiritually. We all deserve to be content now.
Did anyone else in the scapegoat role ever get the weird feeling that the abuser kind of wished you would get killed or just die or disappear? Some of the situations I was put in were clearly a danger to me, with no concern shown for my safety.
Given my father drove halfway over a cliff - with all of his children in it - during a drunken 'Sunday Drive', I have to wonder the same thing.
Oh yes!... any chance to wear that black suit!.....and gain sympathy of 'look at me, in a self-acquired wheelchair, looking helpless'.
They point blank said it then passed it off as a joke. More than once.
I was 5, holding my mother’s hand. A huge truck looked like it was going to run over me, so I moved closer to my mother. She said “ why are you so scared of dying?”
I wasn’t even confused at that age. I knew she hated me. NC for 2 years now.
oh yeah. Sinister remarks that are passed off as a joke. Ha!
"Life is too short for meaningless suffering.". Thank you.
I have been no-contact with my FOO now for 10 years. A few years before I went NC with them,I was in the cry-for-help stage and didn’t realize (at the time) that I had the option of going NC. I actually thought it would be a good idea to hire an undercover bodyguard to accompany me at family functions in order to protect me from their abuse. When I found out how expensive it was to hire a bodyguard, I broke down and cried uncontrollably for about an hour - because I knew that I couldn’t afford it. I didn’t know then that I had complex ptsd. Guys - when it gets THIS bad, it’s time to go NC.
Powerful example, Elizabeth. Thank you for sharing this with us.
wow! i hope that things got better for you and that you've since incorporated some type of sense defense💛💥
OMG. So many times I thought that if I could afford it, I would hire someone to pose as my boyfriend, when I had to interact with my mother. I’m not the only one
Dear Elizabeth D, from another Elizabeth D! I read and read and went from therapist to therapist and once I read about C-PTSD I knew that I'd found the definition of my trauma. And once I read about narcissism especially How to kill a narcissist by JH SIMON, I have pieced it together this year and gone NO CONTACT with my entire family of origin too, like you. Well done. It's the most intelligent thing to do. Otherwise, I think we'd die before our time.
The NHS UK has this year 2023 for the first time, published a website page on cptsd. The NICE organisation is yet to decide on formalities but the information is getting through at last! We can start to understand the phenomenon. It's taken society a long time to admit the truth that families can be a sesspit of evil.
Well done.
From Elizabeth D in UK
@@diannebrett4074 - that’s exactly what I was going to do - except I was just going to introduce him as my “friend.” But in a way, it was such a blessing in disguise that they had a 4-hour minimum and were expensive; because I would’ve thrown away my hard-earned money over a bunch of toxic, disordered people. Thank God I didn’t waste my money like that and then STILL have to go NC with these narcissists.
It was when I allowed myself to become angry I started to really heal. Just as you state in the video, I was told I shouldn't be angry while certain others in my family are generally angry all the time. Once I gave myself permission to let it out I found the strength to walk away for good. Prior to that I kept begging, inviting, and accepting the poor treatment. What I am discovering is that the energy I used to spend trying to win favour within my family is better spent helping others who actually appreciate what I do for them. The void I feel is being filled in unexpected ways. Thank you again for your videos.
You're welcome, Jennifer. Sounds like my video validated your own experience of anger as an antidote to the various trauma/survival responses we can develop to survive a family system that scapegoats. Glad you were able to break free and go on to cultivate 'found family' where you can be yourself and relationships are reciprocal.
Be careful.helping others..You'll see that one day when you need help, not only will.they not help you, bit they'll avoid you. It's shocking and hurtful. Please be careful and don't become a doormat, like I was..
Thank you for sharing! HOW did you allow yourself to become angry?? Near impossible for me to allow myself as I start to fawn to keep myself from being hit before I get angry...anger (from only me) just was NOT ALLOWED!! How did you 'break the seal'? Thank you 🌸
@@emocean582 I happen to be releasing a video on this very thing this Saturday - be sure to tune in!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse cannot thank you enough---again! I will be waiting with bells on...anger release is a hurdle I am STUCK on, no matter what I've tried...I fawn...it was literally dangerous for only me to show anger 🌸
I am so glad this is FINALLY being talked about openly...
It MUST become NORMAL for the general public to COMPLETELY understand why abused people go NO CONTACT with abusers...
Ideally I would like to see criminal and civil penalties levied on the abusers.
Particularly in regard to abusive family members - Society really likes to its head in the sand about that ugly truth (which scapegoated children / adult children live with daily).
It was thought in my family of origin if you asked for help or as a child, behaved like you needed help, that it should be ignored and not played into. As an adult, the reaction to needing help is shame for being weak
Yes, and this may include unconsciously held Toxic Shame, which I did a video on last week. Experiencing appropriate and healthy anger can be an antidote for both toxic shame and the cry for help trauma response as it challenges the perceived state of helplessness.
Completely relate! In fact, I spent most of my 20s trying to get over that thinking because it affected how I saw ppl, too. I was judgmental and had disdain for emotional people because emotions were weapons in my family and we were conditioned that if someone else had an emotion, and showed it, they were obviously being manipulative, they had to be working and agenda. It's SO scary how paranoid and sadistic these family patterns are!
Which reminds me, I need to do a video on how these types of families weaponize emotions, with many parents / dominant family members acting as (what I call) 'emotional terrorists). Stay tuned!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseEmotional terrorism ran rampant in my home. My NFs favorite thing to say was "if you're going to cry, I'll give you something to cry about." Trust me, he meant it.
@@debraa2944 And I bet he did...
I am 70 dying failing heart, liver autoimmune but l have survived . From mother to siblings to work over and over.
It has taken me a life time to get to see this
I only hope that some there will be future changes.
Take care . Get out . Get angry.
Your last three sentences says it all. Thank you.
I hope you're still here fighting, Colleen
Thank you Colleen! Thank you for YOU!!-- for Who You Are! 💖🌹
respect
Thank you kind lady, Colleen. I wish you the best. I hope you live your life out longer and with peace.
A cry for help or understanding is often met with Traumatic Invalidation in a scapegoating family. It gets even more painful. And even if one meets a sibling after 10 years.. the invalidating and blame shifting response is still immediate and the same.
Indeed. Did you see my video a few weeks ago on traumatic invalidation? My colleague Dr Erin Watson also wrote a great article about this that I linked in the video description. Link to the video here: ua-cam.com/video/8BQ5Vrarp1g/v-deo.html
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I saw the title of your video - and it spoke to me. Will check it now - soon. Thank you so much for all you do and your kind response. I am waiting for your book with great eagerness.
Good to hear, lisbeth - And, you're most welcome. I hope you find my book on FSA helpful.
Absolutely! It's been 55 years...
@@ImaginarySusan My heart goes out to you. I understand.
My 60th birthday is in April and I have just come to the realization that my whole life has been a trauma response. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT!
You're welcome - It is a lot to wake up to, but with newfound awareness, new choices are possible!
My mother was the overt, covert, malicious and manipulative narcissist. I was the empathic scapegoat for 35 yrs. It carried on with my two younger siblings after both of my parents passed on (mother and step-father). I couldn’t take anymore. They did horrible things-smear campaigns especially. I went no contact with the immediate and extended family about 15 years ago. It still hurts but I am free. I’ve been trying to re-build my self-esteem as I am so afraid of being attacked. I’m 50 in October but I am getting there. Social media still scares me…too many people from the past on FB etc. I never post. I’ve reached a point where I just don’t want to care about any of the judgement, rejection and blame! I was an easy target because I cared too much. Toxic shame still infects me. Trying to find a therapist who understands this has been a chore. I appreciate you and your videos so much. Thank you 🙏
I feel like I have been in the witness protection program and can't even use my real name on ANYTHING and stay 2 steps ahead afraid of being stalked
I moved to a different state and wanted to do UA-cam of my new life but in the back of my head I couldn't
totally understand that, I learned a lot when I did Hypnotherapy training. Knowing what I know now, wow, i don't know how I reached pension age all in one piece. After the Birth giver died, my sister tried to adopt the vacant position.
I woke up one day about a year after my mom died ( she was 96- i was in my mid 50's ) and thought "oh my god i have been living for everyone else!" .You are so wise and kind. Thank you for these videos.
This happened to me when my mom died as well. I liken my mom's death to my awakening and now have no contact with any remaining family of origin, including extended family. My children are my only family and I am so grateful for the love we have.
Every trauma response I had was used against me…ALL OF THEM, particularly fight, flight, appropriate anger then freezing and fawning when I was called ‘crazy’ and told I was incurably mentally ill. I knew this wasn’t true, and I finally saw that I was the only sane person in my entire family! The only person who has empathy and who really cares about others. This was ridiculed. I am no contact with all of them and stuck not knowing what to do or where to go from here, unable to make important decisions. I am jaded about people and when I do recognize nice genuine people, I feel like I cannot possibly allow them to know what I have been through as I know they won’t likely be able to understand and I may face further rejection which keeps me in self imposed isolation. I don’t feel lonely but I know that being alone all of the time isn’t healthy either. I can start over, but I have no good ideas and it seems so overwhelming and I am exhausted from years of living in trauma responses.
I've been where you are and could have written this myself awhile back. Working with a trauma-informed mental health professional can be very helpful. I use 'Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma' by Dr Janina Fisher with my FSA recovery clients, for example. Also, you may wish to read my introductory guide on FSA, which also addresses recovery, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Thank you so much Rebecca for your kind response and suggestions. I’m sure you know completely how much any recognition at all, and even more so, someone with your incredible understanding of this unspeakable crime means to FSA victims. I am ordering your book and the one you suggest by Dr Fisher is immediately.
@@2kme199 Good to hear - I hope you will find them both helpful. Dr Fisher also has a search feature here if you are interested in working with therapists trained in TIST (Trauma Informed Stabilization Treatment). janinafisher.com/search/
I relate to all you’ve written and I feel the same. NC with every family member for now, trying my best, the one sane in the family also, and working with EMDR therapist, trying to manage inner child work for now…it’s tough. Such a great advice and I’ll apparently also buy those books. I just need to declutter at home and organize some space for new books also. It’s very hard to navigate every day’s life for me as well :(
@@2kme199"..unspeakable crime." Yes....
Righteous rage... I've learned that it will be used against you. Getting angry at the abuse and gas-lighting and standing up for your rights will be turned into "see, she is the problem, see her anger" It's a catch 22!!!
Most definitely. You may want to watch this video here: ua-cam.com/video/yE0LY7xAX0g/v-deo.html
Exactly, no matter what you do, it won't be viewed positively
truth spoken 100%
Double binds. You were never meant to win.
I don't even care and will Call it out regardless. I don't have a problem calling it gaslighting and narcissistic abuse along with much worse.
I love this video! The unknown can be terrifying but it can be exciting too....Ten years ago, I sold everything and left a place I no longer belonged. I moved 5000 miles away to Arizona where I started a new life! Never regretted it,...not once. YOU can do it too!! 🙂
Great story. The fact is, when it comes to family scapegoating abuse (including associated 'smear' campaigns) "geographical cures" CAN and often DO indeed work!
I love this! Your courage is inspiring
Where in Arizona? I am looking to move away from Arizona to get away from my family.
@@MartineReed I live in Yuma, AZ...very hot summers, but the fall, winter & spring are beautiful with nice temps.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse!a!a
For years I waited hoping for someone to 'save' me from the abuse at home . Asking anything from parents just brought about an angry lecture of how I was to helping them and 'who do you think you are ?' rage . Expecting to parent my parents and always perform tasks I had no clue or instruction on how to do brought about the feelings of incompetence and failure they wanted me to feel . Boundaries could only be set as I was exiting and going NC years ago . The realization that I would no longer listen to their insults , name calling , projection and rage was shocking to them . Life hasn't been great but certainly an improvement over putting up with abuse that was never going to end .
It is genuinely tragic that children / adult children are put in such twisted, complex 'double binds' (aka the 'Gordian Knot' analogy as mentioned in my book). Congratulations on becoming your own 'rescuer' and breaking free of toxic ties. As Dr Carl Jung once wrote: "The only person we have the ability to save is OURSELVES." (rough quote, but you get the idea).
I left home to marry a man who treated me the same way that my father did....not a good outcome but at least I got away, had 2 beautiful daughters and began the journey of believing in myself...
New subscriber to your channel. A family scapegoat here who didn't get their "light-bulb" moment until this past December around Christmas at age 64. I received a gift I wasn't expecting though...knowledge! I've gone no contact with both my mother and sister. Life can be hard but to keep tolerating the intolerable isn't for me anymore. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and being a beacon of light to people that might be dealing with some darkness right now.
You're welcome, C.J. Very glad you found your way to this channel. You may also want to read my book on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA), which is based on my original (qualitative) research, clinical experience, and personal experience. My new tagline for my website may agree with you: 'Knowledge Is Power. Truth Is Life' (!)
I had to have the courage to move away when I was hitting bottom; to go no contact, to refuse to return when I was being a bad daughter refusing to be my mother's caretaker. No contact didn't exist yet. Trauma informed therapy didn't exist yet. I had no idea why things were the way they were. I am glad the world got caught up while I am still here. Turned 80 yesterday.
Happy Birthday Orah! 🙂 I am happy for you to be around long enough to figure out what happened. That alone will bring you peace. I am astounded how horrible and cruel so called "family" can be. In my case, throw sexual abuse (incest from my father) in the distorted mix! I am 68 now and Rebecca is the best therapist of all! I hope you check out her book, it answered all my questions and made me drop a lot of anger I carried. See you here every Saturday!!
Happy Birthday (belated), Orah. May this year of self-discovery and healing be your best year yet!
Some of us growing up a different cultures had no idea "why things were the way they were" either. I did move to a different country -trying my best to cope alone after divorce- but they had money and kept coming here- I was happy to see them bcz I loved them{!} - but it always ended in more anger from them for their huge unmet expectations and more slanders . I have been seeking info like crazy for the past 10 years ...I am in retirement age now... I am glad too that these info is available now in a cogent format. I am reading the comments and find so much similarities..
If your mother was one of the scapegoater , you did the right thing- I bet it was hard.
May all your Birthdays be peaceful and filled with contentment.. you deserve it.
@@lisbethsalander1723 I used to teach Cultural Competence when I was a grad school Professor. Abusive behaviors are also 'normalized' in certain cultures Such behaviors are not only NOT recognized as abuse, but can be encouraged to 'discipline' or socialize the child.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseI am glad you have that rare background. Then there is an abusive family culture within a culture.. and children believe that it is normal. Of course, you know that.
I wish I had a person who actually cares, instead of just seeing what they can get from me.
This is how it's supposed to be. When we love eachother we set healthy boundaries ones that help both parties grow. This is how love is supposed to operate so we don't hurt eachother and need to heal from repercussions, PTSD, and co-defendancy.
That exact thing is how I found out I'm autistic.
Ppl take advantage shamelessly.
This is exactly what I've recognized and trying to process it and learn and progress.
I am still going through that too. I can ONLY love myself and unfortunately alone
I remember calling this “cry of the wounded gazelle” with a pack of hyenas (my narcissistic mother and 2 sisters). I realized I needed to get away and not get stuck in this cry. 38 years later much healing for me but my sisters are stuck in themselves.
Thank you for your channel.
I am 70 years old, and to hear of others older than myself, who are just becoming aware of their past is a great relief.
It’s the old adage, “I thought that it was just me”, is so overwhelming.
There is work to be done. Mostly on accepting myself. But realizing that I don’t need to please people. That’s a hard one.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom. It means so much to those who were not given a good, solid nuclear family foundation.
It wasn’t us. It was others and their challenges, that evidently weren’t met either. We didn’t have this knowledge then.
Thank you. May God richly bless you and your work.
Thank you, Linda - and very happy to have you here. Whether the scapegoating was driven by generations of unrecognized/unaddressed trauma or via a narcissistic family member, it is never too late to embark on the journey of recovery. Awareness regarding what happened to you is indeed the first step. You might also want to read my book on what I named family scapegoating abuse (FSA), Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed.
I woke up one day and realized I was functioning so much better without the family Interaction. My only interactions required submitting to being the doormat and their continual invalidation. I’m very independent and self sufficient because I was forced to be. Nobody helped me ever. I don’t need them to survive and oh my..the peace!
There’s an Al-Anon saying: “If you don’t want to be a doormat, get up off the floor.” Sounds like you did just that.
Yes, thank you for this. Such fear from Mom's sudden anger. And such a sinking feeling in my heart. It meant hours of silent treatment crying alone, told to smarten up cause I'm just feeling sorry for myself. Forced to apologize (for?) and smile convincingly. Had a trigger recently when an acquaintance criticized me. Same feeling, even worse maybe. And I'm old! Terror so strong my throat closed up. Couldn't speak almost couldn't breathe.
Many FSA adult survivors have strong rejection sensitivity. I'll get a video out about that soon. It can be crippling for some if left unaddressed.
Thank you, I relate to that!
@@dariosergevnaMe, too. And PDA, as well.
as an innocent child. my dad passing when i was 5.. i NEVER had anyone to cry out HELP TOO.. i was like a piece of the furniture.. the gopher to get the chores done...and now at 62.. oh wow.. the anger.. over the neglect .. and realizing all the STUFF . i stuffed.. and how shut down i became...
It is quite a lot to wake up to. I hope you find my resources here helpful.
Hi Rosalie, we would probably have been great friends! I relate to everything except I did have a loving dad who couldn't be that as narc mother would take it out on me. So he was distant, her enabler. I'm 73 in two days. I'll be alone, but heck it's so much better. Zero contact siblings 23 yrs. When my son died is when they ratched up the cruelty. 'always hated him'.. 'good'. And worse. These are low achievers compared to my son.. dux of school, top 3% intelligence in country, trained as doctor, joined RNZAF as an Officer Pilot.
We have sometimes to hold truth close to our hearts. All the best to you for your journey.
Same happened with adopted mother. I'm 62 also.. She was such a scary person and I guess they just had to make those babies "tough" back then. There's so many secrets I found out about that family and they were a cult I never was invited to join. She her brother's family were still her family. And I was just there to clean up. But a made a living put of it. I know exactly how they made you feel. So cruel and mean. But God saw them too. Otherwisee, I wouldn't still be here.
How are you doing 9 mos later?
the anger the victim allows themselves to feel can be the catalyst to a level of utter disgust at the horrendous abuse endured that they want nothing to do with such a sick dark person- and defeat conflict and tactics to leave for good.
get real get mad, you deserved we deserved
signed
a being with an unbreakable spirit which cannot be beat into submission💛💫💥
Anger is an energy, indeed. Thank you, KeriKat.
I think I've used all the trauma responses: fight, flight, freeze, fawn and cry for help. The flight response led to the narcissist hoovering and coming after me with more abuse. The fight response led to increased denial and opposition. The freeze response led to more domination. The fawn response stole my voice and ability to stand up for myself. The cry for help led to narcissistic rage from the scapegoating family. This is a horrid life experience. Shattered from decades of abuse leaves the family scapegoat with no place to feel safe both in the body and the environment. I am grateful to be strong enough to walk away from all of the "shared psychosis" haters and be safe. Rebecca, I believe you are powerfully supporting scapegoats to finally take our lives back. It brings tears to my eyes, because of revelations from your work, that I finally have clarity about my entire life experience.
Thank you for letting me know how my work on FSA has affected you, Pamela. It is never too late to reclaim one's life (and soul). My new website tagline: "Knowledge Is Power. Truth Is Life".
WOW!!!
Omg this is me! From the age of 3 I knew not to cry or show vulnerability. And now I’m 56 and can’t stop crying for help. It’s so backwards.
Excellent information, thank you 🙏 The cry for help response does not work within the dysfunctional family no matter how righteous the rage.. it’s not tolerated from the scapegoat.
Well said, glad it was helpful!
True. They just use it as "proof" that you are the "problem".....
Doctor M, thank you for another holy shit, light bulb moment. Even though my whole life has been filled with one big trauma response, I can’t tell you how relieved I am to know I’m not totally crazy. You hve no idea how many times I’ve said what is wrong with me. I use to see people breezing through life while every part of mine was falling apart. The jobs, the friendships and just everyday situations would leave me completely baffled. What a waste of time. Again keep spreading the message. Your a scapegoats angel.
HI Joanna, I appreciate how open to these clinical realities my viewers / subscribers are. Thank you for letting me know that this video here was also helpful. I'm thinking you already read my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) but if not, it will no doubt give you more 'light bulb' / "A-ha!" moments, per the reviews I've received.
❤️❤️❤️
Maybe that's why I never ask for help, it is stored in my subconcious is the way I lived in a place called "family", this is not a family this is a extreme form of cruelty.
We carry this burden even in our adulthood, and I wonder how to heal? Thankyou for this great video Rebecca. When I was a kid I didn't understand why they treat me in a different way, they program me to take care of my siblings and to my parents, like I didn't have any need. This is the wrong way my parents behave.
No second chances for sure.
Yes, a child can be conditioned via the responses (or non-responsiveness) of the 'big people' who they depend on for care and survival. Regarding how to heal, you might watch my playlist for survivors, therapists and clinicians; also, you can purchase and read my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed if you'd like to learn more about this form of 'invisible' abuse.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Your book is an excellent tool. It helped me a lot, thankyou.
I love how you talk about anger as a healthy feeling. So recognisable: not being able to showcase righteous anger or healthy boundary-setting, while other siblings WERE allowed to be angry for silly things in often disproportionate ways (I'm talking kicking and screaming anger).
Watch my video here on Injustice and Righteous Rage (if you haven't already...)
Ooh, I love what you say about harnessing anger. That's why they make us afraid of expressing our outrage because they know that energy would allow the target to get out of their trauma-induced zombie-like existence where they accept what they have always been subjected to because they feel trapped. Tap into your righteous rage ON YOUR TERMS (i.e. don't allow it to overwhelm you so that you self destruct) and be the alchemists that scapegoats are!
Love this, Kiska,. Well said - and very true in regard to my experiences as a clinician and also as an FSA survivor/thriver.
"..and be the alchemist that scapegoats are." ❤️❤❤
Wow, thank you for understanding this......the alchemists we are.. .indeed ❤
Helpful and great comment- thanks❤
Thank you for this video. I'm 48 years old and going no contact with my family of origin, including my mother, who I believe is in the narcissist spectrum. I have two male siblings in their 50s that live with her (one with schizophrenia) who can absorb her lies and continue to help scapegoat me. I've come to realize if I'm unwilling to be used for more favors than I can physically keep up with, then I'll be abused, and if I won't tolerate the abuse, I'll be discarded.
You're welcome, Jonathan. We can be conditioned from a very young age to accept and tolerate unacceptable, even abusive, behavior. I hope you are finding the support you need during what might be a stressful, uncertain time. It DOES get better!
I love watching these and also reading the comments. It always reminds me that I'm not alone. Thank you so much for sharing :)
You're welcome - I also enjoy reading all the comments. I hope you find comfort in the community here.
Excellent video Rebecca. I’m the 63 year old who has spent most of her life in the “cry for help “ trauma response. In the beginning when I was very young I fought back with my father and went into flight mode as well. That turned into a “freeze “ response mode for a few years. At around 30 I was really in the “cry for help “ response and I had no idea that was what I was doing. It was a horrible scary way to live.
I was surrounded by narcissists, mainly both parents, both sisters and a husband who were the primary abusers as well as a brother - and a mother -in -law. The thing is all of these people were constantly in a state of Rage while I kept absolutely silent throughout all of it. Finally at around age 60 I had an insight that I was being treated badly…. I expressed some anger.😮 I started hearing “You’ve got anger issues “. Ha. Ha. Ha. Anyone who is normal or near normal wouldn’t have put up with 1/1,000th of what I put up with. I’ve thought about going somewhere and throwing dishes or maybe stabbing a pillow but I haven’t done it yet.
You’re so right when you said being scapegoated is meaningless suffering. I guess it helps the narcissist but it certainly didn’t help me. Now off to find a pillow.😅
Thank you. I realized after I made this video that I should have mentioned pillow-hitting as well. I've had some clients beat a mattress with a tennis racket; others drive to an empty parking lot at the beach at 3 in the morning and scream. As long as we can release the anger / rage SAFELY without harming ourselves (or others). And yes, it is amazing what those in the 'scapegoat' role are expected to put up with. God forbid we protest the maltreatment. And if you do, you are labelled "angry," "out of control," "violent," "crazy"...the list goes on and on. Hence my analogy on the Gordian Knot used in my book - There is no way to unravel the double bind we are put in - one must 'slice through' with the sword of (their) truth to become free of the systemic madness.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thanks for your validation and response. I like the idea of the baseball bat hitting the mattress because I think I can get more anger out that way. I’m going to buy one.
Actually, a tennis racket is better, perhaps safer than using a baseball bat.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse is it somehow better than punching a pillow? It’s more dust I guess hehe
I just missed out on buying myself a home because of trauma response. Realizing that is what it was helps me to not make that mistake again. Thank you.
Profound insight. Thank you for sharing it with us here.
This one is really confusing to me.. is this like acting out in anger or subconscious things like eating disorders or something? Bc in my experience, scapegoats are used to not getting any help whatsoever, usually everyone else in the family can easily ask for help and receive whatever they need, the rest of the family goes out of their way to do things for each other, except for the scapegoat. They love throwing you out into the ocean and yelling “see?! You just aren’t swimming hard enough! Its your fault you’re drowning anyway!” Even if they recognize that you need help and see that you are struggling with things on your own, they love criticizing how you’re handling things and even pretending that you are going to ASK them for help so they can rub it in that they wont and that you don’t deserve it. Its like you cant win.
Not all FSA adult survivors experience this particular trauma response. Those who do will take this (unmet in their family of origin, as you point out here in your comment) 'cry for help' response out into the greater world and act it out in their adult relationships but not realize they are doing so. Typically, instead of feeling angry that they are not being heard / helped, they will move into 'toxic shame' and have deep fears of abandonment, etc, which is why the conscious experience of anger can help the survivor get unstuck and begin to progress in their recovery.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuseohh okay I think I understand. Thats like when some partners expect the other to react the way they wanted the family to react in a similar situation, and when they cant the person may feel like “this person doesn’t love me anymore, they dont care about me” or they might overreact when things happen that are more about needing the help that they didn’t receive in their family. I think I was a lot like that in my early 20’s unfortunately :(
@@CBrown86 You and me both! Great question, by the way - most thoughtful and astute.
Genius comment ❤
“The cry for help” trauma response. It’s not even metaphorical for me. Many, many times a day over the last 15 years or so-in my head-I’ll cry out “help me help me help me!” I’ve been thinking how pathetic that is. But I also can’t shake the longing. I honestly can’t wrap my head around how incredibly point for point accurately your work describes me, what I’ve been through, and my responses to it. I had thought no one would ever understand. It’s actually awful to know that SO many others have experienced the same heartache, but I’m so happy to have found this channel.
I'm very glad you're here. I hope that knowing you may be experiencing a complex trauma response is helpful. Linking you to a list of resources I put together here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse it really is 👍❤️🩹
As a kid, crying for help to a responsible adult was a gamble with life itself. Trusting the truth to anyone with less acumen than a trusted and talented attorney committed to my cause (along with the ability to pay said attorney), would be an act tantamount to suicide. Abused kids keep the family secrets for a reason.
I am surprised that I've done so well for myself. I don't have a pot to p*ss in and I'm on disability w/CPTSD, autoimmunes and injuries from being dragged and ran over by a stranger in a Tahoe, but even as a child(FSA youngest of 8)I knew there was something really wrong w/all of them. I went NC early, before I even knew what NC or an NPD was. I went NC with everyone and became a hermit so and until I could figure out WTF happened to me exactly and how I could stop being dysregulated at the drop of the hat w/cry response, full amygdala/water boy. I am angry. I was angry when my sister beat the tar outta me at 10, I'd had enough! I started fighting back physically and I was freakishly strong at 10, 11, 12...I made people afraid of me, especially the narc step-fthr. I took great joy in unleashing my can of whoop-*ss on him every time I heard him devalue my mother, I still smile when I think of doing that. They created a monster and I enjoyed it...aimed at them anyways...it wasn't very helpful out in the real world, having all that anger. I was stuck in the anger response for years and years and years. I'm still angry, of course, but I have made a lot of progress on my own(w/God)thank God! Now, with that book on the way, I look forward to healing even more! Thank-you!!! My mom used to say that "temper" was going to get me in trouble...was she really that stupid?
Yes, one whole trauma response, all the major decisions of my life. Never really understood why I "knew" so young I'd never have children. Think its bc I knew I'd show love to them and be seen by family as having emotions forbidden me. After a certain age I maintained a neutral, emotionless face to them. Please address this too if others experience it.
I'll add this to the list. I also 'knew' I would never have children from a very young age. Still sorting through all that myself.
I relate to that and I’d like to watch a video about that
I chose not to so that they didn’t become the family’s next target.
@@Patricia-bd4lvit seems unfair that you miss out on being a parent because you had abusive parents yourself. Can you not move far away and create a separate life? That worked for me
@@carolynwilson7736why do you assume one is “missing out”?
This video made me feel so understood and I frankly have never felt so validated in my experience as now, even after years of therapy from people who have been “trauma therapists”. Thank you truly.
So good to hear. Thank you for being here and for letting me know my work on FSA is helping you. You might check out my book as well - it may fill in some gaps (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed).
you are amazing how you explain reaction to abuse im a scapegoat daughter, now 72yrs old with lupus because of the past but just now realized my whole life was a trauma response and a lie thank you for what you do
You're welcome, Jan. And it really is never too late to recover. Whatever time we have left, we have a sacred obligation to ourselves (and our formerly exiled traumatized parts) to make it our BEST.
I went NC with my abusers including all relatives 8 years ago. I believe that even the new generation think of me as the big bad wolf, some kind of looming legendary bad guy, when the truth is those poor little souls are now being brought up by the monsters. I think of them sometimes and wonder if one of them is now the up and coming scapegoat. My heart breaks for whoever it is.
Wow. Resonates resoundingly. You covered so clearly all scenarios. Many miss the occurrence of chronic illness and/or an injury occurring while tending to the family ‘in need’ (ie, death of one parent, elderly sick parent(s), having a disabled sibling, etc) as a scapegoat. A once ‘free’ and ‘awakened’ scapegoat can return to help family later in crises and roles seem changed (I call it ‘ever-changing alliances’) almost like a ‘love-bombing stage’ and get caught unaware again and super-glue stuck if apparently end of life circumstances seem or are near. Those beautiful qualities often innate to the scapegoat -which you so aptly described in another video- can be deadly later when the scapegoat has been tracking with/sensing the dynamics since childhood and it hits like a ton of bricks later when family must ‘put the house in order’ preparing for end of life etc. A physically ill scapegoat is a double-whammy set up for the most sincere ’cry for help’ response. This ‘cry for help’ response and it’s intricacies you’ve introduced here is very powerful. Thank you. (Add a narcissistic family tree to the mix - the casualties in mind, body, spirits are enormous and heartbreaking ). I’m so glad you suddenly appeared after I’ve been marinating in other experts/therapists etc. Great work! (Apologies for the ramble. It’s a build up after watching a few, so far, of your insightful and educated videos.) So much here: the health of righteous anger reminder, the ‘whole life awakening’ as a trauma response, the overall seriousness of the scapegoat position. It’s biblical: the tribe puts their sins/secrets on the one who appears most vulnerable/the one who sees them and casts them out into the wilderness to perish (along with the true narrative!). I hope all scapegoats can unite in this awareness and raise the bar for civilization. Express that healing anger energy rather than wither in isolation and despair. ❤
Wonderful to have you here, Dorian, and what a remarkable comment - and powerfully written. If you haven't yet read my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed, I feel you might get some more "A-ha!" moments out of it, based on what you have written here. Hope to hear from you again - we do have a lovely community forming here.
Thank you, Rebecca. The unknown is absolutely terrifying. Working on it!
You're welcome - Interestingly, the Chinese character for 'Crisis' is the same character used for 'Opportunity'... And anxiety can (at times) also be viewed as excitement!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse That is so beautiful! (and true) Thank you for that!
I am 59 and just feeling anger for the first time in my life. The spell has been broken, I finally woke up. It's a energy transfer from me to you. It's not me, it's you!
I'm covering repressed anger in the video I am releasing this Saturday, in case you're interested.
Thank you Rebecca..that was very thoughtful..this stuff is very close to home for me. I'm so damn angry because it didn't have to be like this. You're right about the Generational Trauma. It's a Real.Thing..family baggage..
It is a Real Thing, indeed... Robert, did you read my book yet (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed)? If not, you may find it helpful...
Holy molly, I have been experiencing this alot from being triggered lately and you putting a name to it is so so helpful! I realized I have abandonment issues and when I am in it I know I am acting out but can't control it. Guess that has to do with the amygdala you spoke on. And when I come back down and am feeling better, I realize how out there I was feeling and then I go into feelings of shame, worthlessness, and that I am too needy, and a burden to people I love. I know it's a cry for help but I will even push people away that try to help because I don't want to be a burden. Because during it I will say crazy things. Like I don't deserve love, I'm bad and deserve to be alone or hurtful non true things to people I love, "like you don't really care about me, you dislike me, I know you don't want to be around me..etc. They would say, that's just not true and become sad and frustrated and then I would feel terrible for saying. Also, I used to have the fight response in my family of origin, fight response came from my anger and I did think it was bad, because if I got angry I was torn to sheds and viewed as the worst person with my righteous anger of unfair treatment and unkind and manipulative behaviors made me rightly so angry. But I definitely learned anger, especially as a woman was not tolerated but of course my narcissistic mother could get angry and it was acceptable and she had the worse kind of anger. Would throw plates across the kitchen at the walls and pots at our heads and hammer the walls(this wasn't the healthy kind, where you go to one of the places but in front of her children, it was terrifying and she would lunge at me to hit me and I would push her away, or my brother would grab her away from me or made me stay in a flooded basement, awful stuff..I think I might have had this all my life, maybe I was one of those people, but this information about it is very helpful. Thank you. Sorry long post
Hi Cat, you are not alone. I know this particular trauma response very well myself, and I see this often in my FSA coaching practice also. Today I have compassion for that shamed, scared, 'alone' and seemingly helpless part, and I hope that you are also feeling more compassionate toward this part you identify here in your comment as well, now that you are aware of it and beginning to understand it. Thanks for sharing your experience here, I'm sure many will relate!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you Rebecca. Your response teared me up. Thank you for your understanding, knowledge and compassion. This was a God send for me, related to every single word. Can't thank you enough. You are an angel.
I most definitely don’t say this to hurt you but do you think you may have borderline personality disorder? I think I had it but getting away from narcissistic abusers and learning about narcissism helped me to get rid of it. Just a thought because I feel like I can relate to you some.😊
@@christar9527 No, that doesn't hurt my feelings. I went to a professional years ago because my narc mother made made me the family patient and said I had that which was a total projection now that I think about it, and the therapist determined I did not have that and said I had PTSD and sent me to a trauma specialist. Alot of people get misdiagnosed, my mother had borderline and narcissism which are very closely related. No, don't have that, but the help I got for PTSD was way more helpful because I find complex PTSD actually more serious but that is just my opinion. I am on the healing journey tho. In my comment is alot from my past when I was triggered and also had alot of reactions to being mentally and emotionally abused and manipulated. That is not borderline, I was a full on scapegoat in my childhood and into adulthood. But thank you. Cry for help is just another form of the fight, flight freeze fawn reactions to triggers from trauma. I also do think what she said about learning healthy anger is important. That is underrated. Being angry is a normal reaction to being mistreated and if you learned to surpress it it like most scapegoats not healthy.
@@catzee4720yes, a lot of people get misdiagnosed, but they actually was being abused! But there’s also a lot of stigma on BPD and some sources help a lot, like Dr Fox is very compassionate and a great professional. BPD seems like a diagnosis that is just in DSM-5, but not C-PTSD, so people with C-PTSD get one…
hi. I have been through the anger, the sibling betrayal and surprise scapegoating, I have gone no contact as of a year ago. The problem is that I am in a completely collapsed situation. I have more than FSA abuse I am dealing with and a whole bunch of chronic illnesses as well as a loss of so much independence and success I already had spent a lifetime fighting my Malignant Narcissistic father to accomplish... So now I am fighting my body and my mind and the system to survive. Time feels like it is running out and all these people in my HUGE family have managed to get away with damage from all the childhood abuse into Adulthood as recent as financial abuse to this day causing me CPTSD - clean free! Learning all of this is great and gives me some relief. But if it is not acknowledged on a larger scale it is so exhausting trying to get the appropriate help, with little money, and no legal resources. Unless of course your abuser is a Weinstien, Epstien or ... Thank you so much.
This is an aspect of family scapegoating abuse (with attendant C-PTSD) that was validated via my years of qualitative FSA research. A clinically significant percentage of respondents were suffering from chronic illnesses - many of them auto-immune. I myself have four (possibly five) auto-immune diseases, for example. This is why I am doing all I can to bring attention to family scapegoating abuse and its effects: There needs to be more support for survivors from society and within the Mental Health field as well.
Seems like chronic illness goes side by side with FSA :(
I was a scapegoated kid and when I was in high school, I joined the gymnastics team. We were terrible, lost every meet but it felt so good to run and flip and flip and flip. It helped tremendously having that outlet. For awhile I would ‘box’ with a hanging weight in the cellar. Later, after I injured my back, I took walks for hours in all kinds of weather. A physical outlet - just dancing in your chair even - can help you work out some pain and learn how to deal with the challenges.
Thank you for sharing, Lorna. And wonderful examples and suggestions.
I found pulling weeds to have some detox outlets.
This video helped to really feel seen and it takes away a good portion of shame in regards to some behaviors in response to being treated so badly. Learning about this trauma response helps me understand so much more. Really does explain a lot. Thank you.
So good to hear. I know that for me, both personally and as a clinician, learning about Complex Trauma (versus PTSD) was literally life-changing.
Dr. Manderville,
I just got off line with my therapist and what I need most from her is to acknowledge the great loss scapegoats suffered. She say nothing most of the time and when I ask her a question she says she won’t diagnose my family members. I’m left feeling like I’m feeling sorry for myself, like if I’m blaming everything on someone else. Should I keep looking.
Joanna, for legal and ethical reasons I cannot advise you on this, but I think that if you listen closely to yourself you will have the answer you seek...It is true we cannot diagnose anyone but our clients, btw, but that is different than needing /wanting a response when sharing our experiences of others in our life, particularly if it has been a source of pain and inhibited your 'true self' expression (which I am addressing in detail in a two-part video starting this Saturday).
YES,...KEEP LOOKING!
@@Aetherfieldnever met one of those- this blank canvas is a cop out. Those using Janina Fisher model sound like a way to go…
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 I'm not familiar with those therapists but I wish you luck... I am having good results with a mace energy practitioner now. I've had one session and Felt dramatic results where I have done years and years of other therapies. It may be something you want to look into
I went no contact with my FOO 3 months ago.
I was in this place for a long time. High functioning, but always there deep inside. I kept cycling the question, how can they (narc siblings) make up the most ludicrous story and be handed a large check? The scapegoat on the other hand can be struggling as a single parent but viewed as a source of income. Is Rod Serling on my balcony?
Righteous Rage is the perfect name for it. We have to get the imposition of baggage out of us in order to authentically move forward.
Thank you for lifting others into the light of reality. Namaste 💜
You're welcome. This particular message (video) is not easy for some to digest. Already lost a subscriber because of it, but clinically, what I share here is not only based in fact, but is a lived reality for some FSA adult survivors who wonder why they are 'stuck' and can't seem to progress in their recovery. Glad you got over this particular hump. Speaking of Rod Serling, check out my two 'Bizarre Reality' videos here, if you haven't yet. My guess is you will relate to at least one of them.
I somehow survived, but I feel like there is nothing left but a lifeless shell
So many here have felt that way. Linking you to a list of resources I created for FSA adult survivors, in case you see something of interest: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Lived my whole life in this survival response as an adoptee. Still trying to untangle from a narcissistic husband. Autoimmune and fibromyalgia.
Autoimmune diseases came up often in my research on FSA, particularly with women who are Empath types.
Yes ma'am...the whole metabolic panel. Bedridden for 2 years a few yrs back. Separated but struggling as he's trying to push his way back into my life. As an empathy... it's hard to not be kind but I'm tired of my kindness and energy being zapped. I feel the separation has only benefited me and my health. In need of closing the door and moving forward with my life as scary as that is with this type. Need to break the cycle of abuse.
@@karenkuske5567 Key sentence here: "I feel the separation has only benefited me and my health."
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you sister for pointing that out! ❤️ that's huge!😊
Thank you!! I've been stuck in this for 8 months & retramatzed repeatedly as NO ONE would help, listen, believe as the public smear campaign grew and I lost more& more each day. No cops, lawyers, friends, family would do anything to help. Ran out of town. Had to flee for my safety.
I'm picking up the baton again right now& found more research for lawyers. I hope I have better luck now that I have better understanding of what the hell has happened
Good riddance to them all. And leaving town for your own safety is the best thing you could do. You can't heal your psyche unless you remove yourself from the toxic environment. It will get better. Best wishes❣️
I just happened on your video. 65 Had no idea there was any help out there that hit the nail on the head. I am feeling desperate and find myself saying "I need help"! I've ordered your book. Rejected blamed. Hope to be able to find someone soon!
So glad you found your way here - I believe you will find my introductory guide to what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA) helpful if you related strongly to this video. Be sure to check out my list of playlists on the home page of this channel.
Scapegoat and Pleaser: I said NO, when someone tried to bully me into picking up my sister at a store when she was in trouble. I know in my heart I can not handle her and that she should return to her home. My sister is not speaking to me and she did not ask me to pick her up. I said NO and it was not easy. She can not stay with me as I previously allowed her to stay with me when she was in trouble as she tried to break up my marriage, and acted in inappropriate ways. My sister is angry and jealous of me and she makes it difficult for me to help her. I feel hurt. Saying NO was difficult but the right thing to do for both of us.
It is great to get a reply to my comment. It means my comment was acknowledged. Now I know why you wear the glasses. I don't make many comments and quite often in life in general you don't get a reply. I am 69, the oldest of 9 children and I was the scapegoat. I have had a lot of Counselling over the years but Scapegoating was never really mentioned. It is a horrible practice and it doesn't matter how good, how educated, how competent, how successful you are, you will still be seen as inferior and that came primarily from their Mother and they all followed suit. It made my life hell. That's enough said I think for now.
Hi Frank, I do hope you will read my book, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed. Understanding this form of abuse can be very healing. Also, there are a few playlists on the home page of my channel here that you may also want to check out, as well as my free articles on FSA here: scapegoatrecovery.com/blog.
I remember this pinterest post that said there are 2 types of anger, wet anger which is when you are powerless and crying and feel helpless and then dry anger when you are productive and self protective and not taking any crap.
I like that - very fitting! Thanks for sharing it. I've heard the 'wet' and 'dry' analogy used in regard to spirituality (esoteric) versus religion (exoteric) a well.
I just finished watching this week's video about the "cry for help" trauma response. I went through the 1st 4 phases of fawn, freeze, fight or flight responses. But I never thought about a cry for help response --- but I felt that way about who will help? Doesn't anyone see what's going on? I was there day to day facing the mother & daughter bullying. Felt like there was no way out. I have been out for years now and starting to re-live my life in a good way. " Rejected, Shamed, & Blamed" came through the mail at 3pm Tuesday. I was reading it at 3:01pm😁 I cried a lot at first because it seems like it was written for me. When I got to the Chapter describing the attributes of the scapegoat...I was so happy that I survived and felt like wearing a shirt with...." I am a Proud FSA Survivor"written on it. I am really enjoying this book. Thank you again ❤
So good to hear, BB. I hope you find my introductory guide on FSA helpful - AND validating! Your pain - as with ALL FSA adult survivors - deserves to be heard and acknowledged. I hope my book and my other FSA offerings give you a sense of that validation at last.
You explained everything scapegoats feel like and best of all, you understand what happened because you survived. Thanks to you making known FSA, more people will finally understand what goes on in these dysfunctional homes. I thought back on the " flight" response. 2 yrs ago as I was getting the mail from the box, my sister, the one I talk about, drove up in front of my house. She & her daughters got out of their car. Her oldest daughter acts just as cunning as she does. They smiled and walked towards me. I got a sickening dread and a pit in my stomach. I ran into the house and slammed the door in their faces. I was very uncomfortable and had flashbacks because prior to that day, I hadn't seen her in 3 yrs. Last visit was unpleasant. I really enjoyed the video today about the " cry for help response" . I am getting stronger now. I don't think I'd run from her today. Thank you again ❤
BB, that is a perfect example of how the 'flight' trauma response can help us to survive. I remember distinctly the day I stopped freezing and fleeing / 'running' and finally stood my ground AND stood up for myself - It didn't help the situation any (likely worsened it) but that DID mark the day my deep recovery from FSA began.
I am so happy you stood your ground ❤ It was worth it and now you are such an Amazing Inspiration to us all ❤ Each week, we look forward to learning more about the scapegoating situations we were put into by a damaged person ( s). I am glad we have a "voice" through you because you are sincere and speak from experience and wisdom. My neice will be in another generation of abuse. She mourns the suicide of her half brother. Her mom , the sister I talk about, her older sister & their dad are hard on her. The dad was hard on the son who committed suicide. They punish her for the most petty offenses. ( over sleeping, missing school bus). My mom helps administer what type of punishment should be used. They took her to a therapist. She made progress. Then they removed her from therapy. She is the nicest child. I offer her encouragement whenever I can. I share with her what I am learning. She is 15. She knows she can talk to me anytime. Thank you for helping me so I can help her ❤
Thanks, BB. Family scapegoating is a FAMILY (systemic) problem, yet the target of FSA is seen as 'the problem'. I hope that your niece will also learn this truth. Learning about the family 'Identified Patient' (IP) as discussed within the Family Systems field may be helpful to you both as well, in addition to my own work on FSA.
I’m 52 and this is the piece I have been missing 😭. I have tried drugs, Jesus, spirituality, sex, relationships…. But this just hit me to my core
Thank you for letting me know, Michelle. Glad you're here. Here's a resource list I put together for adult survivors of FSA in case you are looking for more support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Yes. It never stopped. Still, today. I feel like I've lost my whole life before I got to live it.
It really can feel that way. But with whatever time is left, reclaiming one's truth and one's narrative - however difficult or challenging - is worth it. You might want to read my introductory book on this form of systemic/family abuse, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed', to learn more.
Hi, I wanted to call mom now after 1 month of NC and ask to talk to me nicely at least once a month...she will maybe scream or say that I have to say sorry for something. I'm so sad. She hasn't called me at all for the whole month. Before, it was 6 months. It's always me who has to make the first move...
I don't want to do it but I miss her a lot sometimes. She might just say mean things. My psychologist said Come back to your inner child first before seeking help from others.
It has been very difficult now during PMDS...I crave intimacy much more, feel so alone and abandoned. Feeling hopeless.
sometimes I doubt everything. I guess it got worse after my narc dad’s message yesterday. He wrote that I live in a made up world and that I have to forget the past "just like this, immediately"... he wrote also that he knows everything....he has never taken me seriously.
What should I do? Need some encouragement and support...
Maybe to text that I want her to know that I love you? Once I called her and asked to tell me she loves me, when my narc ex hurt me, so she replied: “Why should I pretend saying what I don’t feel right now?”
Sounds very painful. Per my UA-cam disclaimer, I am not able to directly advise those who are not my clients. I’m glad you have a Psychologist you are working with. Did you already read my book, ‘Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed’? If not, I suspect you may find it helpful and you can also bring it in to your therapy sessions to discuss parts you strongly relate to.
I'm so sorry....what a hurtful response from your mother....the one who is supposed to be your champion in this world. I'm so sorry...
Grateful for discovering your channel! You’re content is spot on. You’re not only very knowledgeable, but one of the rare human beings who are genuinely and sincerely passionate.
Humanity more than ever desperately needs to listen, and learn…to mindfully accept that our current disconnected narcissist-ish family “culture” is giving rise to the highest ever teen suicide rate. Loneliness is a PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS AND ONE OF THE LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH. WE collectively must put aside egos and practice graceful, empathetic, helpful connections with others. There is too much judgement intolerance, disconnect and also physical distance between us. We’ve taken the wrong “fork in the road”. Imminent hope WE take the path that ultimately leads to a positive, impactful generational turnaround. 💚🌍💚
I was out on medical leave when you commented here many moons ago - Great to see you became a member recently and what you express here is powerful. Not sure if you saw the PSA I did on FSA when I first started the channel in hopes of it being shared and raising awareness - Here's the video if you are interested: ua-cam.com/video/ar426kSxEE4/v-deo.html
Absolutely on point. Family systems understanding is essential especially now as more families are so fractured.
"You have a right to take up room in this world". Wow. I do! I have a right to take up room in this world! Thanks infinitely for this affirmation. I've been always doubting if I did. Or trying to "earn" that inborn right.
You're so welcome!
Wow, as painful as all this is for me. I am so flippin relieved that i am not really at all the problem...but rather a text book case of a person in trauma response. Happy and pissed...hopeful for a place to start finally. But so devastating to learn at 50. Half my life i went along with it all. Ugh. I need to go sit still for a while now. Thank goodness i found you, i ordered the book, here in 2 days. ❤❤
Welcome, Caroline - I'm glad you've already ordered my book, and am equally glad you're here. My playlist for survivors, clinicians, and therapists may help you better understand the type of trauma you may be experiencing. You might want to check that out as well (watch oldest to most recent).
I would get the silent treatment when I was upset....everyone pretending nothing is happening 😢
Pure OCD, people pleasing, thinking i don't deserve happiness, only now realising that it's not me, its the past when I didn't know any better. The guilt and anxiety. They don't belong here. ❤❤❤❤
You might find my FSA recovery Affirmations playlist helpful. It is included in this list of resources I put together for adult survivors: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Don't feel anger. Just feel hurt.
If an FSA survivor is not slipping into shame (or toxic shame) when feeling hurt, that is definite progress!
Thank you for this video. I have been feeling like so many years wasted in this trauma response, my previous enmeshment and codependency until I understood while I was in therapy. I it’s been a process and I have felt so much grief and anger over the things I could have done, who I could have been- so much younger and earlier - had I not been the kept down scapegoat by my mother and her entire toxic family system. They ALL isolated this part of the family so I grew up almost in a cult of their own making, of their never tried to acknowledge and heal generational trauma and abuses, so it all flowed into the next generations in survival mechanisms. Many of them narcissists, borderline personality, psychopaths, schizophrenic dx. Omg to hear that I can appreciate that I survived all that and be out of it and create my own life in my late 60s.
I have been surprised at the anger that rose up from so deeply inside that I never knew I had it. I thank my healing and God for the safety I am in now to be able to explore this mess of anger and the intensities have lessened. 🙏
Very glad you're here. Linking you to my list of resources in case you'd like additional information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
The ANGER ❤ helped me to change my life. It helped me go no contact with manipulative people, it helps me protect my boundaries in everyday life... Anger is the healthies emotion 💪☺️ I give a shit about what people think about me and my reactions-when I feel anger, I am holy right to act by it. Thanks to anger, rage and disgust, I am slowly starting to have more healthy and supportive relationships...❤
Anger and what I call "righteous rage" can indeed play critical roles in one's recovery from FSA. I discuss this in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/2Lo8nWGIZUM/v-deo.html
Thank you, Rebecca! I'm so thankful to have found your channel.
You're welcome, Michelle - glad you are here!
Yes, me too! My entire life a trauma response. Totally wondering what my whole life could have been. I am so smart and talented, so sad.
Denise, I read your other comment (can't find it now) regarding your move to Mexico, etc. I've been where you are, and not that long ago. You CAN get through this. Sending you support and light!
5:53 "my entire life is one big trauma response"
you don't have to acknowledge it but it's still true.
18:38 "life is too short to experience meaningless suffering"
"Scapegoat abuse is the peak definition for meaningless suffering"
I have to agree. And a form of suffering few ever recognize - both in the family and out.
Rebecca, your insights have been a lifeline. In my scapegoat experience I was trained not to ask for any kind of help through any method including literally crying for help. Others could simply cry and rage without offering the slightest effort toward justification and this would garner them the attention and sympathy they desired - but never move the family, nor any individual, forward in any way. Looking back I can easily see the manipulation involved. As confusing as all this was and still can be one thing is clear: I was operating under a completely different set of rules than others in my family. They all understood this on some level but I was very slow to pick up on it. To some extent everyone cooperated with a delusion that we supported each other and were even an "ideal" family no matter what the facts elucidated. As time went on my cries for help became very rational and specific requests for help/working together which the family considered my abusing them - abuse here defined as a request to be heard and included. Of course they were already working together - no wonder I sounded crazy to them. I hope it is some sort of progress to get to the end of writing this and just chuckle. Love to all of you surviving these sorts of absurdities and unjust challenges. Your strength inspires me daily. Anyone living near the Twin Cities, I'd love to meet up.
I was just thinking about you and hoping to hear from you again. All you say here is spot on. My newly coined term for this family shared distorted reality is ‘Folie a Family’. I particularly appreciate your pointing out that when your ‘cries for help’ became specific and rational you were seen as ‘the abuser’. That is worthy of an entire video, so I will put it on my list. I remember when I went through this stage. On one occasion, at a family event when I was communicating in a healthy and boundaried way, a relative yelled this at me: “STOP TALKING LIKE A THERAPIST!!!” That’s what we call in the Family Systems field the ‘change back’ strategy - the subtext being, ‘We are uncomfortable with the ‘new’, boundaried you. We do not feel in control. We need you to become small and quiet again" (or the adoring audience, when in a narcissistic family system). I imagine you relate, as will many here.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I like the "Folie a Family" term! It's stunningly impressive you can keep track of any of your "flock." I've just needed to slow down and back off a little lately with my healing - let some things quietly sit for a while as I enjoy smelling the Roses. I was in a difficult place for a while but I feel much better now than in a long, long time. Just trying to honor some of the mysterious aspects of pacing. I'm extremely grateful that you didn't fall for demands to change back (to their scapegoat) and ask that, having found what seems from here to be your true mission based on your true self, you continue talking like a therapist at TOP VOLUME!!! Be good to yourself today! 🧡💚💜
@@MF-my3db Thank you - And, I will!!
I never heard of these and been researching scapegoating for almost a decade now. I got this big time from my family and at the job. My family taught me I would be extremely punished for standing up for myself so I learned to go to others for interventions.
Many people don't want to rock the status quo or believe people are intentionally malicious so they question and attack the person who is crying for help. When I read about "Learned Helplessness" in psych class, it resonated with me so hard. But bringing it up to people, even some in therapist positions, got me the same "that's impossible, you want this, you're the cause" blaming that caused the learned helplessness response in the first place.
Glad you found this video useful. If my work on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA) is new to you, you may want to check out my introductory book on FSA, included on this resource list I put together for FSA adult survivors:www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
It is comforting to have that space of understanding here. My mother has become paranoid about me since I stayed with her during lockdowns, and she couldn't stand my mere presence, acting as a victim. She's 70. Now she has been giving me silent treatment for almost a year. She projects onto me negativity and reasons why she feels unwell. (but keeps in touch with my estranged brother). I have had depression and been isolated where I live, unemployed.. I still had my stuff at her place, she didn't respond my messages for months, so I knocked at her door in December and insisted so she opened but acted as if I was assaulting her! I got part of my stuff and was hoping for reconciliation but she later texted my visit shocked her and she was so unwell the emergency services came and I am a psychopath... This really hurt and shocked me to be put in the role of aggressor and rejected, it was Christmas, I spent it alone. I couldn't take the rest of my stuff. I recently messaged after 5 months. She sent a letter, she said she hoped I am working on my my life and becoming autonomous, she doesn't want to reconnect and she doesn't want to be under my "grip" or influence (English isn't our language) anymore. She doesn't want any arguments like in the past years and she makes it all about me. As if I caused it all. She suggests I can write her to see how far my reflection has gone so she can feel safe.
I feel so gaslit and I don't agree with her narrative. I feel like she takes no responsibility for how unfair and abusive she has been.
It is extremely hard for me to get my life together as I have no support (just emotional, knowing she cares) and I feel helpless and toxic shame.
This letter made me cry because her narrative is so different to mine, that I don't see how we could reconcile. I don't agree with what she says about me. I have issues yes, but I am not a horrible person who mistreated her. I am sad because I feel like my well-being would be to detach and grieve her.
Hi Sarah, this sounds very painful, indeed. Not sure if you read my book (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) but in it, I discuss Dr Jennifer Freyd's DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender). You can find her work on DARVO online, and you may want to look further into it as it may possibly shed more light on your family experiences.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you Rebecca, I will read your book. Your message means a lot to me.
Her mother also had paranoid attitude towards my aunt in her older years. I think my mother identifies to her mom as she is aging and feeling vulnerable and sees me as an intruder.
Because she still pays for one of my bills for medical care, do I deserve to be shamed and rejected so that I individuate?
Feeling so hopeless that I will go to my hometown, and stay at my narcissistic controlling father just because I can't afford a hotel, and I will walk on eggshells. He was the most blatant difficult parent, but now I can really count on nobody and I feel I can't make it on my own. My ex boyfriend ended our connection at the same time my mother cut me off. He also is a scapegoat but unaware. So much grieving lately.
Your work has been a blessing, thank you for what you do! ❤
Hi, I feel incredibly sorry for you! I have similar experience. My mom is either a narcissist or a sociopath. She can’t stand being near me more than a short period of time. Last time we talked she said that I’m repeating everything 25 times and that she gets tired of me after 5 minutes. Then she said a video she knew would trigger me and I’ve been so hurt. So I messaged her and since then been NC. For 1 month. No calls from her, nothing. Before it was 6 months and it was me who called her and she said very hurtful things and also that she doesn’t want to hear anything negative and anything about her being a bad mother…so I relate. I’m thinking about going to ACA meetings again…
@@dariosergevna HI Dasha, thank you for sharing and the kind words. I am sorry you can relate to my situation.
How awful that feels to have your mother rejects you and be so critical. It would be nice to have someone who can understand that in real life, because I have no one that understands.
My mother said the exact same thing as yours, that she doesn't want to hear any criticism and negative about her. She can't stand any criticism, even if it is to reconcile and set new foundation.
She sent me a letter, in response to mine because I needed to get stuff back from her place. In that letter she victimises herself, paints me as the villain, who controlled her and manipulated her since I was19! I felt awful reading that narrative. She still says she is open to talk, but not yet, she still needs time (it's been a year already!). She doesn't ask about my life at all, wants me to be fully autonomous. She said she never would have thought she had such relationships with her daughter, but then put it on me, my flaws and aggressiveness (reference to when I showed up at her door to get things back because she wouldn't respond in 6 months)!
It's like Rebecca said in her videos, she can't love me but it's because of who I am, so it's my fault!
Have these ACA meetings helped you?
Your English is top notch! Even down to the psych terms. Is there anyway you can translate some of this work into your "mother tongue?"
That is so true. I have allowed people to treat me horribly because I can’t feel angry.
I discuss repressed anger in this video here: ua-cam.com/video/2Lo8nWGIZUM/v-deo.html and have videos on what I call 'righteous rage' due to scapegoat-fueled injustices. Here's an FSA survivor resource list I put together in case you are wanting additional information and support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I have truly enjoyed listening to you. I did not know about FSA or Scapegoating but it is just what I believe has been going on with me for years now. I am 70 and have experienced estrangement from my siblings and our son, only child. He seems to be narcissistic but we believe his wife was first before they married and he has learned her ways, or he is just trying to survive his marriage. He never showed us disrespect prior to meeting her. But the scapegoating has showed up in that situation too. Not just with my siblings but my siblings have rejected, shamed, and blamed me for years. None of my parents did this, however, but my siblings just automatically see me as the golden child cause I am the baby, I guess. But my mother who I was raised by and my grandmother, were good to me and I got spanked as much as my sister did who was 4 yrs older than me. All other siblings were grown and lived with my dad after he and mom divorced. I was about 3 when that happened and their relationship as far as I remember was violent, not happy, lots of anger, no nurturing done. I got some nurturing from my grandmother who basically raised me and my sister cause mom worked. Lots of anger and violence in mom and grandmother's relationship too. So trauma is at least what I experienced as a child. I do suffer from the narcissistic abuse as well with son and wife. My social complex is damaged I know. I always feel like a sore thumb around people like my church ladies. No close and personal connection there. It isn't the way I want to live my last years. I appreciate your channel and what I am learning here. May God bless you as you continue to help those like me to learn how to break out of our stuck selves. ❤
Wonderful to have you here. I have various playlists on the home page of my channel here you may want to check out. You might relate to both dysfunctional and narcissistic scapegoating abuse, for example (some families are both). Also linking you to my updated FSA adult survivor resource list in case something catches your eye: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
This is the missing piece. Thank you 😊xx
Good to hear!
My entire life. 66 yo here.
My parents, my siblings, my husbands, even my children. I am collapsed.
I really appreciate your validation of the things that have happened to people. I remember being told by my siblings that I just “Needed to forgive” right after I was being led to believe the things I experienced either “Never happened” or that I was somehow so “out of control” that the physical beatings were actually necessary for me. It was in my late 30’s that I received the shock reality that both my sisters bought into the scapegoat narrative about me. Sometimes I fantasize that I’ll write an “fictional” Amazon book and call it “Scapegoat” as an outlet for my frustrations about the abuses and injustices that happened to me. I feel like it was a type of terrorism that happened to me in the home. My stepfather used to stare me down wide eyed when I’d walk through the room even to use the bathroom…I learned quickly that one glance back resulted in a beating. It was a sick game that started when I was 11. I learned quick to keep my gaze away or else. For years I was very intimidated by African men and refused to date one. A friend called me racist for saying I just couldn’t. I now realize it is because of the association of my stepfather being black. And I’m not racist at all. Just traumatized. As far as my life just being one big trauma…I realized that a couple of years ago. One source of comfort is that even non traumatized people can waste their lives just being too busy. So, maybe this was a blessing. Because I have resolved to appreciate and live my best life moving forward. I will fight for my healing and my ability to break through the barriers.
Yes, it's a shocker when you realize the siblings have bought into (and are reinforcing) the 'scapegoat' narrative. If you haven't yet watched my video here on scapegoating and sibling estrangement, you may want to.
So true. I feel this pattern with not accessing anger very clearly. I feel sadness, shame and a lot of guilt. I know I am angry. The tricky bit for me is being criticised for my anger, sometimes before I even recognize it in myself. My mum could say to me when I felt annoyed by something.
"I'm always afraid of you. You're always angry at me, I see your lips getting all stiff and I can tell you're angry." I felt so stuck then. Before I could even articulate to myself why I felt annoyed by something she blamed me for my negative feelings. And the times I actually got angry she would blow at me. I think a lot about it and wonder if I express my feelings inappropriately.
I try to unlearn that feelings of anger is bad and try to view them instead as useful information. But it's hard. My mum could really rage at me when I was little. I have never raged at her but still it's my anger that is a problem in the family.
Understood. And true for so many survivors of FSA who did NOT experience the 'fight' trauma response. There is a book called 'The Dance of Anger' - link here - it may help you: www.amazon.com/Dance-Anger-Changing-Patterns-Relationships/dp/0062319043
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you! I think it might be a helpful book to me! Definetely will look it up.
Indeed!! I want to express anger but I cannot… I’m afraid for being angry. I’m in the Netherlands and they don’t have therapie for this…they say I have a personality disorder…(!?).
My story is too long to tell, with mental abuse, scapegoating and when I stood up for myself as the scapegoat I got heavily physically abused by my sister and mother (sister 50 and mother 75 years old--ever heard of this?).
I am the youngest of the family.
My mom died few years ago and now my sister went of with the heritage and gives me the silent treatment..now for 4 years.
So thought I will do what I always wanted and did an education to be a dog therapist, got my diploma one month ago…
But I’m so insecure to start up my own company, as I was always told that I’m not worth it and am stupid. So now scared to set it up… as the toxic shame is getting in my way.
I have good qualities I know! And always was a dog person, since 5 years old.
I’m a quite good Asian cook, as my parents had a haute cuisine restaurant…as I could not cook my mom said.
But animals are my thing, as they don’t have a bad mentality…
I have good qualities, I know that… but the shame is so in my way
Congratulations on getting your diploma and following your dream to work with animals! It is so important to understand toxic shame - which is what you are likely suffering from if you were in the family scapegoat role. I encourage you to read my book, Rejected, Shamed and Blamed, which has a chapter on Toxic Shame. I also suggest you watch this video here: ua-cam.com/video/OBo4ky0ADTU/v-deo.html
My only daughter got married last Saturday and my family was all included but me. She blames me for all that she hates in this life and she is 31. I am broken so badly currently because what she is doing is dividing and conquering and I am ALONE. I am agoraphobic now because of so much shame. My youngest son died and she said I was not able to be a mother to her. That is so sick of her to say. They see me as crazy though. This life is torture
So sorry to hear what you're going through. I'm in a similar situation but I'm now estranged from my daughter and my grandchildren. Hope you can stay strong and try not let shame get a grip on you. You're not alone.🙏
@hippieporium7836 So very sorry to hear this. Here's a survivor Resource list I put together in case you need more support - Check out Rhonda's private Facebook group, there are several women there, including Rhonda, who have also been cut off by their adult child. Rhonda just made a video on this, in fact, over on FB. Resource list - and link to Rhonda's private group - here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
I had to move across the country to get away from my family. The Tai Kwon Do classes in college also helped. It helped to remove the false imprint, the false identity, that abusive sisters project onto you. It inspires a more powerful and more accurate image of the self. When a sister visited recently I felt all the judgement and pain projected onto me all over again. Without words. I could barely breathe during her visit. It’s extremely destructive. I have had health challenges for the past 30 years or so and it is clearly tied. Agree it’s necessary to get in touch with the rage, of course don’t stay there.
FSA and being activated in the presence of scapegoating / projecting family members definitely can result in somatic symptoms, which can be rooted in complex trauma. Here's a related video you may want to watch: ua-cam.com/video/ytSdn8nQCBg/v-deo.html
Why do people who are narcissistic continuously bring up when they helped you in the past. I had a family member who loaned me 500.00 years ago, I paid that back plus a super high interest fee. And I paid it back in 2 months as agreed. Years later I keep getting told about but I helped you back when, you should help me any time I want something I helped you.. remember the 500. Bucks I gave you. They conveniently leave off I paid them 1100.00 for that 500.00 and tell others I owe them for that loan. They get mad when I won't help them when I knowing now who and what they are and I want to stear clear. But they then slander me to friends and family alike saying how I am a horrible person for putting distance between us. My friend get friend request from this family member and if they accept the family member tells them how awful of a person I am and lie and all. Why do they do this???
I can't believe I'm hearing this =- now, at age 75! My parents are deceased and I have gone NC with my siblings. I despise them the most in the world for not only allowing all this to happen, but also for particpiating in it. My best respionse was to blend in with the walls. If I could have been dead I would have, abd I have a very hard time caring about myself. I now want nothing to do with not only the people who talk about me behind my back and contradict me, but also the dopes here who listen to them. It takes two to tango. I feel, if you want to listen to them without checking with me first, them go for it, but I don't want anything to do with you.
Makes perfect sense to me. And it never ceases to amaze me how rarely anyone is interested in hearing the scapegoated person's story/truth. I hope you find my videos here helpful. If this is new to you, you may also want to read my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
This hit me like a ton of bricks. So "on the mark" it was mind blowing.
I'm in the "cry for help" stage or maybe it's fawning. I don't know anymore? Still stuck in this very venomous environment and my body and spirit are so utterly depleted. I have no physical or mental strength to get out. They've sucked the life out of me. And ever since my car died I have not been able to leave the house all day to go to work. Not allowed to use either of my mother's cars just to work a job and make money. So I'm trapped. My cry for help is to God. He's the only one who can save me at this point. I've tried everything. And my 5 siblings who continuously verbally and mentally pummel me LOVE that I'm stuck at home b/c they can now control me further by making me take care of my mother, the mentally abusive queen.
Hi Cindy, I'm linking you to an updated list of FSA recovery resources I put together, you may find support via the private Facebook group Rhonda runs (included in this list): www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Was told all my life that showing anger was a sign of immaturity or an emotion only un healed people exhibit. I now know the opposite is true.
Good. Because that’s just another way to try to control the false narrative. Along with things like “If you were spiritually healed you would not feel anger.” That’s a load of crap.
This sounded interesting - because I wondered if it might apply to me - but when I was about 3 minutes in, I thought "she is getting lost into her own thinking here, not actually communicating what she wants to communicate" and then you have to step into her way of reasoning to figure out what the point is that she is trying to get across. (I am sure that I often do that too! because yes, it is fascinating, the learning process and developing the insights.)
Basically, it seems to be the following. There are four major trauma responses - fawn (which is the one that sociopaths don't get because it is motivated by fear and the will to survive and sociopaths rarely understand fear), fight, flight, and freeze - but if you are a child, there is a fifth one: ASK FOR HELP.
Once you're an adult, though, this become completely ineffective and very limiting, but you don't realize that this is what you are doing. It's just something that you'll have to unlearn. How do you know that you're doing this? When you notice that nobody gives a shit. When nobody responds to your cries for help. DON'T GET ANGRY WITH ME NOW. WAIT. It's more complicated than this because this also often happens to people who are NOT family scapegoats. People do not like to be confronted with ideas that clash with their beliefs. This is neuroscience. It is metabolically costly for the brain. Once you realize that - painful as it may be - you realize that you've basically taken back power. It is in your own hands now. You do whatever you need to do. FOR YOU. For yourself.
Thank you for this feedback. I do not script my videos. This has pros and cons. According to my many subscribers here, there are more pros than cons, and so I will continue to do what is most comfortable and natural for me. My articles on these topics are more clinical and succinct. You can check these out at scapegoatrecovery.com/blog - they are free. My introductory book on FSA also is brief and concise, but dense.
Hi Rebecca. Love this video! Your jewelry is fab too....lol. Thanx.
Thank you, Tara. It was given to me by a friend years ago and I suddenly remembered it!
Yes, especially like the necklace...
Have you ever looked at it from the empaths perspective of absorbing others anger energy while already having their own, and when narcicistic rage meets an empaths own? I feel we're frying our energetic circuits, I get stuck in freeze so I don't spew the verbal venom I know I'm capable of.
We really do not have common knowledge to or access to the examples in society that we need... How to express anger and rage appropriately. Would be great to see mainstream appropriate anger management skills taught.
Great question and worthy of wondering about. Did you already watch my video here on injustice and righteous rage?
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I just watched it, thank you!! And it raises more connect the dots in my own long drawn out, DIY "anti therapist" recovery, that I'd like to share. More rabbit holes for you too!
I'd like to offer what has helped me. I see this as psycho, SPIRITUAL, emotional abuse. (Narcissistic abuse kills the spirit, and we stop participating fully in life, suicidal thoughtsand ideation has been in my life since 15, I'm 53 now)... As long as we only address mind/thoughts and not the body/physical =energetic/spirit, we're still in half measures. And compartmentalized/ still disaccociating pieces of ourselves. Mindfulness is incredibly important, and still is missing a key component. The physical recovery, I would love for you to look into and hopefully collaborate with a few teachers I've watched? All can be found on youtube.
Christina Lopes, "The heart Alchemist" explains the 'trapped energies in our chakra's, she breaks down to ages of trauma too - in a way like no other. And ways to release this and heal our energetic bodies. (It would be interesting to know how many survivors like I did, turn to bdsm where there is SSC agreements and boundaries for power exchange games, (and literally beating/grown up style spanking the energies back into motion).
Dr Joe Dispenza gives us power back over healing our bodies. With meditation. He is a bit technical in explaining for my knowledge base, but ridiculously effective. And has the science to back it up.
Abraham Hicks book "Ask and its Given" has processes that can change our inner talk to self care instead of destruction. It helped train 'the pessimist' right out of my ruminating though patterns.
The Holistic Psychologist, Nicole also has a very nurturing and loving way as well.
And finally a statement that I'd heard and repeated to a friend who said it really gave her power back to hear: "This hasn't happened TO me, but FOR me". If we look at "this pain" as a lesson for our 'eternal souls growth' to learn from in this existance 'Earth School of hard knocks' we become more impowered.
I hope this helps open the Apothecary drawers and dump these ingredients in a big pile so we can become the "twin flame" in our own lives,"to become fully whole beings". Thank you for your extensive work. Bless you!