Some people tend not to believe me but I can run lean of peak with my C-150 if I very tediously adjust the mixture (which I will do on cross country trips). This has very little to do with saving fuel (which is minimal) and a LOT to do with preventing fouling from excess fuel going thru the engine.
My experience as the owner of five 182’s is oil temps and pressure. I found the O-470 oil pump was just good enough when new. But as the engine wore and tolerances grew the pump failed to provide adequate oil pressure. I actually fitted the pump off a IO-520. That solved the problem. There is a little panel beating to do around the firewall indentation to accomodate the pump plus change the studs. My operations though were in a hot climate ie 30 - 40 degrees C. I agree 380 degrees F is the target temp for cylinder heads.
I still don’t believe EGT doesn’t matter. If you’ve got compression and timing that EGT getting hot enough can burn it down in that combustion chamber. Anything low compression and timing not a chance. But turbo and or high compression experimental I can see premature issues.
Jeez! Does anybody get their head out of the cockpit these days? Is this LOP vs ROP some kind of fad? What's wrong with leaning until it runs a little rough and screwing it back in until it runs smooth and enjoying the scenery. Every IO-520 we had made it to TBO with no problems.
Leaning by the seat of your pants??? That is NOT how I roll -- and while my choice of LOP vs. ROP is situational (ROP for best power, LOP for best range), I ALWAYS use the EGT gauge to do so! (And that DOES NOT mean never getting my head out of the cockpit -- once I've adjusted the mixture, I can leave it alone as long as my altitude remains constant, which it does most of the time while in cruise!)
@@agentorange153100% the way I do it. My issue is peak EGT can vary on the engine set up. I’ve flown planes that peak at 1400 and some that’ll go 1600+. My rule is lean to 1350-1450 on my planes that all peak at 1500*
The way I've been taught is, ROP for best power and LOP for best range! Also, how come you talk about using cylinder temperatures and fuel flows for setting the mixture, rather than EGT???
Cylinder head temperature is related to internal cylinder pressure, which is tied to stresses on the engine. Running lean of peak may slow you down 10 percent or so, but reduce fuel consumption by day 20%.
@@christopherbrown1730 Like I said, you run lean of peak if you want to fly farther on a tank of gas -- BUT you set your mixture using your EGT gauge, NOT your CHT gauge!
Also, i forgot to mention - the dangerous temp. is when cylinder temp. (CHT) gets above 400 F (i think) which can happen mostly at 75 % power or above. Thing is, that the highest EGT is at 14,7:1 ratio, which is 'peak' and still in that 'danger zone' but coming back down that curve (to lean of peak). Highest CHT is rich of peak, before highest EGT, rising to maximum 13,2:1 ratio or thereabouts. But safe safe zone would be richer than that at 12,:0:1. Or lean at 15,2-15,5:1. The numbers are not precise due to the different cooling systems.
The funny thing about all this LOP vs ROP talk. Prior to digital precision engine monitoring, everyone ran LOP. Ask yourself, what was the rule of thumb for cruise mixture? Lean until the engine starts to run rough and then enrich until it smooths out. That's LOP.
Wait.....lean with CHT!?!?!?! You lean with EGT. Then monitor your CHT. You run 75-100 degrees rich of peak. Or 50 degrees or more lean of peak. Never use CHTs to lean your engine. You could be at a peak EGT and that’s super high temp and pressure. The Peak is PEAK EXAUST GAS TEMP. Yeah check your cyl head temps. If your too hot then maybe you richen slightly or open cowl flaps or reduce power. These engines should all be operating just fine either rich or lean if peak. As long as your not watching your CHT for the “peak”. But your explaining a bonkers way to lean your engine.
All I’m going to say is peak tit for me is around 1650 and I run usually 200 degrees rich of that to keep my cylinders below 400 degrees with 500 degree cylinders. The cht formula works for high performance turbocharged airplanes the best
@@russellhernandez1875 your still using the EGT to lean your engine. To get to a desired CHT. The TIT is the temp of the exhaust gas going into the turbo.
@@monrow11 to a point... in Florida we have way to hot of a weather to lean to peak.. in a turbo we lean to tit compared to egt. It is not cool enough here to lean a turbo Saratoga to 50rop and keep the cylinders under 400 degrees. So what we usually do is start to lean until the cylinder reaches roughly 390 degrees. We do watch the egt but the cht is more of a problem in higher power airplanes.
You did not get what he s saying. You lean as per usual but want to mane sure to not exceed 380° on hottest cylinder. Which is great because regardless of your setting using EGT indication, if your CHT is over 380°, your setting is bad and you re compromising your engine's life.
Because he's been building and flying C182s with the IO550 and I0470s for decades, it call EXPERIENCE! He's 100% correct, if you have gami injectors and a modern engine analyzer like a JPI you can fly LOP no problem. And if you've flown LOP you'll see that your CHT's are much cooler and when you do your annual you'll see that you plugs are cleaner etc.
Read some Deaken and Busch on this. They explain the science behind LOP. The problem is not leaning. The problem is not leaning enough. If you lean just a little you can put your engine at 50 ROP and if the power is high enough you will be at the highest CHT. CHT's are the best proxy for what is happening inside the cylinder. EGT is not. Both Deaken and Busch talk about the red box or red triangle. That explains the concept in one graph.
D Bradford yeah but you still base your leaning on EGT. To avoid high CHT. Your not sitting there making your initial mixture setting on your CHT. That’s not right. If the cylinders are 385 and you want it a bit cooler....yeah squirt some more fuel into it. Or less if your LOP. But we should be leaning with our EGT gauge first then monitoring.
@@HookedOnUtah The problem is not leaning LOP (I do that too if I want to get maximum range) -- the problem is using cylinder temps to find your mixture setting, as opposed to using EGT like you should be doing!
Some people tend not to believe me but I can run lean of peak with my C-150 if I very tediously adjust the mixture (which I will do on cross country trips). This has very little to do with saving fuel (which is minimal) and a LOT to do with preventing fouling from excess fuel going thru the engine.
My experience as the owner of five 182’s is oil temps and pressure. I found the O-470 oil pump was just good enough when new. But as the engine wore and tolerances grew the pump failed to provide adequate oil pressure. I actually fitted the pump off a IO-520. That solved the problem. There is a little panel beating to do around the firewall indentation to accomodate the pump plus change the studs. My operations though were in a hot climate ie 30 - 40 degrees C. I agree 380 degrees F is the target temp for cylinder heads.
Awesome explanation...Thanks. JP
Why do crews and climb have different cylinder temperatures
Power, that’s what flying is all about, oh and speed👍
That's why, unless I plan to make a long flight without stopping, I lean ROP (75 degrees ROP, to be more exact)!
I still don’t believe EGT doesn’t matter. If you’ve got compression and timing that EGT getting hot enough can burn it down in that combustion chamber. Anything low compression and timing not a chance. But turbo and or high compression experimental I can see premature issues.
Jeez! Does anybody get their head out of the cockpit these days? Is this LOP vs ROP some kind of fad? What's wrong with leaning until it runs a little rough and screwing it back in until it runs smooth and enjoying the scenery. Every IO-520 we had made it to TBO with no problems.
Leaning by the seat of your pants??? That is NOT how I roll -- and while my choice of LOP vs. ROP is situational (ROP for best power, LOP for best range), I ALWAYS use the EGT gauge to do so! (And that DOES NOT mean never getting my head out of the cockpit -- once I've adjusted the mixture, I can leave it alone as long as my altitude remains constant, which it does most of the time while in cruise!)
@@agentorange153100% the way I do it. My issue is peak EGT can vary on the engine set up. I’ve flown planes that peak at 1400 and some that’ll go 1600+. My rule is lean to 1350-1450 on my planes that all peak at 1500*
The way I've been taught is, ROP for best power and LOP for best range! Also, how come you talk about using cylinder temperatures and fuel flows for setting the mixture, rather than EGT???
Flight schools apparently don't know about engines. Or if they do - they treat everybody like "you don't have to worry your little head with that".
Cylinder head temperature is related to internal cylinder pressure, which is tied to stresses on the engine. Running lean of peak may slow you down 10 percent or so, but reduce fuel consumption by day 20%.
@@christopherbrown1730 Like I said, you run lean of peak if you want to fly farther on a tank of gas -- BUT you set your mixture using your EGT gauge, NOT your CHT gauge!
@agentorange153 that is not the way Mike Busch explained it in a video from Saavy Aviation about engine leaning.
Also, i forgot to mention - the dangerous temp. is when cylinder temp. (CHT) gets above 400 F (i think) which can happen mostly at 75 % power or above. Thing is, that the highest EGT is at 14,7:1 ratio, which is 'peak' and still in that 'danger zone' but coming back down that curve (to lean of peak). Highest CHT is rich of peak, before highest EGT, rising to maximum 13,2:1 ratio or thereabouts. But safe safe zone would be richer than that at 12,:0:1. Or lean at 15,2-15,5:1. The numbers are not precise due to the different cooling systems.
The funny thing about all this LOP vs ROP talk. Prior to digital precision engine monitoring, everyone ran LOP. Ask yourself, what was the rule of thumb for cruise mixture? Lean until the engine starts to run rough and then enrich until it smooths out. That's LOP.
Say What??? Lean to CHT?
Right?
What's wrong with using EGT like all normal pilots have been taught since the Cold War???
Tell lycoming about that
Wait.....lean with CHT!?!?!?! You lean with EGT. Then monitor your CHT. You run 75-100 degrees rich of peak. Or 50 degrees or more lean of peak. Never use CHTs to lean your engine. You could be at a peak EGT and that’s super high temp and pressure.
The Peak is PEAK EXAUST GAS TEMP.
Yeah check your cyl head temps. If your too hot then maybe you richen slightly or open cowl flaps or reduce power.
These engines should all be operating just fine either rich or lean if peak. As long as your not watching your CHT for the “peak”.
But your explaining a bonkers way to lean your engine.
All I’m going to say is peak tit for me is around 1650 and I run usually 200 degrees rich of that to keep my cylinders below 400 degrees with 500 degree cylinders. The cht formula works for high performance turbocharged airplanes the best
@@russellhernandez1875 your still using the EGT to lean your engine. To get to a desired CHT. The TIT is the temp of the exhaust gas going into the turbo.
@@monrow11 to a point... in Florida we have way to hot of a weather to lean to peak.. in a turbo we lean to tit compared to egt. It is not cool enough here to lean a turbo Saratoga to 50rop and keep the cylinders under 400 degrees. So what we usually do is start to lean until the cylinder reaches roughly 390 degrees. We do watch the egt but the cht is more of a problem in higher power airplanes.
You did not get what he s saying. You lean as per usual but want to mane sure to not exceed 380° on hottest cylinder. Which is great because regardless of your setting using EGT indication, if your CHT is over 380°, your setting is bad and you re compromising your engine's life.
#2 is the hottest on mine! (OK, I have a pusher :) )
Why don’t you show how to accomplish and get to each people that can get to each don’t need this video
:))
AZ why do you think you know better than everyone else
Because he's been building and flying C182s with the IO550 and I0470s for decades, it call EXPERIENCE! He's 100% correct, if you have gami injectors and a modern engine analyzer like a JPI you can fly LOP no problem. And if you've flown LOP you'll see that your CHT's are much cooler and when you do your annual you'll see that you plugs are cleaner etc.
Read some Deaken and Busch on this. They explain the science behind LOP. The problem is not leaning. The problem is not leaning enough. If you lean just a little you can put your engine at 50 ROP and if the power is high enough you will be at the highest CHT. CHT's are the best proxy for what is happening inside the cylinder. EGT is not. Both Deaken and Busch talk about the red box or red triangle. That explains the concept in one graph.
D Bradford yeah but you still base your leaning on EGT. To avoid high CHT. Your not sitting there making your initial mixture setting on your CHT. That’s not right. If the cylinders are 385 and you want it a bit cooler....yeah squirt some more fuel into it. Or less if your LOP. But we should be leaning with our EGT gauge first then monitoring.
@@monrow11 This is outdated thinking. Watch for eg ua-cam.com/video/VvxeEQC-7p8/v-deo.html
from 50 minutes onward. (a Mike Busch video)
@@HookedOnUtah The problem is not leaning LOP (I do that too if I want to get maximum range) -- the problem is using cylinder temps to find your mixture setting, as opposed to using EGT like you should be doing!