Off grid 20+ years and my system is 12 volt. The reason is off gridders use a lot of 12 volt appliances like pumps, fridge/freezers, lights and cooking appliances. Those will run off direct DC with no inverter needed so no loss and they will run even if the batt voltage drops below the cut off point of the inverter. Those are survival systems we need to run all the time. You can run 12 volt appliances off 48 volt with a drop down converter but then you are losing up to 15% efficiency and that is not good when you have a smaller system and off gridders are not connected to the grid to recharge.
i've been offgrid for about 40 years, but truthfully not very sophisticated before about 20+ years either. I started out with 12V and all DC too, but when I wanted to upgrade anything, 12V is more limited. About 20 years ago, I put in a bunch of inverters and went to 24V. I still have 12V possible and run some lights that way, but there are a LOT of advantages going up to 48V which I will be doing in the next couple years. Unfortunately I won't be able to use my old 24V Max outback inverters. Oh well, they have paid for themselves, and the new systems are actually much better and much cheaper.
Unless I missed it, one important safety item he didn't mention is that when yo go to 48V from 12 or 24V you are now in the realm of electrocution hazards, so must be very careful working on the system, making sure things are disconnected/powered off as needed. 50V is apparently the point where DC current can traverse skin, and a charged 48V battery is 51.2V.
You have to try pretty hard to get a shock off 50 VDC. Shock / electrocution hazards are more of a sliding scale of probability than a hard cut off. Yes, if you are soaked and your fingerprints have gone wrinkly 50V is enough to give you a jolt. If you are just a regular dry person it's perfectly safe.
Thx man I was on the fence bout the powmr but finding a gem of videos like this helps make a better decision than most the amazon reviews. I'd say 60% of the reviewers don't understand how to hook up and setup systems without damaging them, then immediately blame seller's for bad products.
A minor correction... the idle power draw of an inverter has nothing to do with the input voltage. It is mostly just a function of the output wattage the inverter is designed for, as well as the quality of the design and type of inverter. The *efficiency* of the inverter does have a relationship with input voltage. 48V inverters are typically more efficient than 12V inverters. Though it isn't a huge difference, it does mean that 48V inverters generally run a quite a bit cooler than 12V inverters. What does hold as a general rule of thumb is to size the inverter only just slightly larger than your max load, to minimize the vampire draw. The vampire draw, particularly from all-in-one units, can be substantial. The vampire draw for discrete inverters is typically quite a bit less. PowMr wouldn't be my first choice for an all-in-one. I'd look at the EG4 6000XP first. Finally, note that the hybrid inverters are quite useful for their AC handling and battery charging functionality, but in terms of the solar and the inverter you can always slap on additional discrete charge controllers and inverters and not be restricted to the limitations of what is built into the hybrid inverter. One of the best things about 48V systems is that you can feed a lot of solar into very cheap charge controllers. A cheap little Victron 100/20 can handle 1000W+ of solar on a 48V system. -Matt
Matt, care to explain to me why this isn't your first choice and what does the one you suggested do that this one can not? I am trying to learn about solar systems before I build one up for my RV. Thank you
@@yazenaswad5918 The PowMr? Beyond it just being a brand that doesn't actually make their own gear? There's a reason why their hardware looks suspiciously like the stuff sold by half a dozen other brands. Not that an EG4 would be my first choice either. I'd spend the extra money and get a Victron Multiplus II because the idle consumption is really low, equipment quality is high, and Victron honors their warranty. Ignoring that, though, and just sticking to technical issues, I can give you a few very simple things to focus on while designing your own system: * First, people putting together solar power systems for the first time universally underestimate how much solar they need, how much power handling they need, and how much battery storage they need. This is particularly true for people who have a chance to select their system voltage in a brand new system and think 12V will be enough for them, only to find out 6 months later that it really wasn't. The best way to start is to throw together a tiny system out of discrete parts (discrete battery, inverter, panels, and charge controller) and learn how it all works. Get a feel for the energy production, storage, and consumption. Not something you intend to expand later, but just a tiny little system that you can learn from and get some minimal use out of. * Second, people seriously underestimate the energy cost of the vampire loads on their system that drain away a good chunk of the power their panels produce every day. The inverter idle consumption is extremely important in that regard. There is a huge, huge difference between an idle consumption of 15W and an idle consumption of 50W. And also the vampire consumption for everything else being powered. Fridge, lights (including night security lighting), internet, and the list goes on. They are all important. My best advice here is to have a good understanding of the difference between "watts" and "watt-hours". * Think hard about maintenance cost as equipment ages and breaks. It is a whole lot easier to replace bits and pieces in a system made out of discrete components than it is to replace an expensive all-in-one. Sometimes all-in-one's are necessary. But much of the time they are a short-cut that burns more money than you intended to spend down the line. * And consider redundancies. Redundancies are important because when you don't have them a failure anywhere in the system can take the whole system down. It can take a while to fix and cause serious problems if you are out in the middle of nowhere when it happens. For example, putting several batteries in parallel, having more than one charge controller, each fed by its own solar string, having a backup inverter. And so on. -Matt
@@portagepete1well, I really don't give a damn. If he does, everyone has got to have to earn for a living. I myself is an enterpreneur. The point is, he is honestly sharing his thoughts about the product and I am learning.
48V systems do seem a lot more simple to diy. I had been towing with the idea of a portable diy in 12V. No reason other than more of a learning scenario for me. Had I known about stuff like this several years ago I would not have purchased all my Jackeries, EcoFlows, and Inergy Kodiak. Great video and thank for the information. I do like that distribution box you have.
Great Job! Very clear and concise explanation between the two systems. Up front cost for 48V systems can be a bit higher than 12V in regards to batteries and/or All-in-one units but the payoff in performance is there. I run in middle of the pack with a 24v system as my main BU pushing a Growatt 3K AIO and it meets my needs perfectly. Also run a 12V MPP 1K for smaller tasks (All pieced together over time). Will probably be switching over to a 48V as main in the future, just have to warrant the cost for the Wife. 😁 Great video-Have a great day! BTW, I really like that AC Distribution box, going to pick one of those up-Thanks for the link!
And not just performance... Consider wire size and cost and the difficulty of dealing with large wire sizes. If you need 200 amps sustained, you need 4/0 (0000) wiring. If that is on a 12v system, going to a 48v system means you only need 50 amps sustained, which is comfortable on 6ga and very conservative on 4ga.
What is the lowest panel wattage required to turn the system on? Reason I ask is because some buyers might not have the money to pay for a huge array immediately. As they have more money they can add more panels and more batteries. Eg. 5kw powmr 48v and 2 24v 200A LiFeSO4. And extendable as more money becomes available.
There is a disconnect on your battery, you you have a disconnect after a disconnect. The point of the rack server and all in one you don't need the disconnects as they are already installed.
came from both offgrid and hybrid inverters but i suggest to those that would try solar power in "OFF-GRID" setup ,go for separate system not that all in one/hybrid system .those powMr hybrid inverters are mis leading inverters .as an example for that inverter that was shown it is stated as 6.2kw if im wrong as i have the same powMr inverter .that inverter cant produce the specified power output on a battery source .it can only produce ~2kw .and it cant do surge power .as an example .you are hook into grid and your load is about 3kw .in specs the 6.2kw/5kw inverter can still support it but wait when you suddenly got into blackout .your inverter will be in trouble no doubt . unlike those with separate setup .like that of the total off grid inverter and a seperate mppt scc module .i atone to go with that setup .that 2kw off grid inverter can even do x3 surge power @ at least 10s .which is so convenient unlike that of mis leading powMr inverter .your just wasting your money on that shit . if you want my suggestion go with ZANDOM offgrid inverter .im currently using 6kw zandom inverter .and my load is 2pcs 1hp AC with 2hp refrigerator in a continues load .even if i forgot about the surge power of them 3 switching on at the same time ZANDOM inverter can handle that load no sweat .because it is capable of surge power for up to 3x of its power at 20s .im now buying their 10kw .forget those hybrid shits .those hybrid shits as scam if you're on a total off grid setup
Hi, thanks for great presentation in simple clear terms . . . the only thing I would think to add which is not covered in your circuits, (and I see presented by others), is that of battery fusing . . . the safety parameter here is to guard from internal battery shorts and temporary high current damage, which (apparently), is not guarded by DC disconnects such as in your circuitry, it would be nice to know your opinion on that ?, many fuse at the battery terminal, and various types of fuses allow high current breakage without spark, and risk of fire or explosion, lastly it would be nice to know, when there are several very similar inverters from one manufacturer, what the model ID's are, and what specifically differs, (I believe one of the split phase units can be wired as 120v, 240v, or a 120/240v combination - out of the box so to speak!), nowhere yet have I found a simple comparison on the different 48v PowMR units, (even the PowMR site is not great), once again, thanks for your work, nice easy listening, clear recording of audio and video, and concise explanations are most welcome! :-)
Of course you should choose a 48 Volt system. Just NOT a short lived, low surge, high frequency inverter system. Low frequency transformer based inverter charger, make a far better choice.
yes I agree, but there is much less choice and higher cost of low frequency inverters, I would like to see a review of all currently available, for a given output size e.g. 5kw being arguably the most popular increment. . . the beauty of cheap HF units is that it is almost cheaper to buy 2 and wire them side by side with switching for manual changeover if a failure occurs, there is much to juggle, in the cost, quality and warranty index.
I was looking at 48v but the best price/w battery ended up being 24v. Like 0.156 cents per watt. Got the 3200W model (needed lower voltage PV input) but it is 2400W on the circuit breakers and cables.
Hello. I just got the POW-4.2M-24V-N I see you got the similar model. I have no idea how to program it. Sadly. It keeps beeping twice every 3 seconds and the soler Panel icon is flashing. Not sure what that mean or what I could do. Any idea? Thank you. I watch the video on here. But he did not mention anything like that. Maybe you have an idea. Thank you
What settings are you using on your PowMr for the battery charging? I have a 10Kw PowMr /51.2V lithium and once the battery reaches full charge, the charge voltage spike to like 59V and trips the inverter. Any help would be much appreciated. Great videos! Thanks!
Do you know if this unit can take some battery power if grid power is insufficient? For example, you have 15a coming in on the 115vac side, but you want to draw 45-50amps. Is there a way to limit shore power to 12-13amps and supplement the rest of required draw from batteries? I have a situation where only 13amps is available as shore power to the RV, but if I want to precool the RV, the AC would draw 22amps. Victron calls it power assist.
I like the way PowMr separated DC in/ out pv and AC in and out..I know you probably the only one using the system but it's best to put that ac input wire far from inverter output otherwise you might have a situation where someone plugs inverter input into inverter output..
Just keep in mind that there is usually no isolation between the PV and AC in/out of most of these things. That is to say that even without solar panels connected the PV input terminals must be considered to be live and dangerous. Most of the generic manuals for these types of all-in-ones do make indirect mention of it by way of telling you to not earth the wiring to the solar panels etc.
I keep hearing about the high cost of the cables for a 12volt system but quite often you can find booster cables heavy duty one's at garage sales and cruise the back alley and I find them all the time clamp not making connection and out to the garbage it goes wires are okay 12 foot of copper wire x 2 no cost garage sales rarely more than 10dollars I used one to hook up my 1750 watt inverter all I had to do was was cut off the clamps and put 2 battery post ends on on each cable to hook up 2 cat batteries and hooked it up to the inverter with a fuse worked great until I found out that I needed to get a pure sine wave inverter
What breaker is that you have between battery and charge controller ? i just bought one of these hybrid inverters and want to be sure and do it right .. Thank you
Very nice video--very informative. I liked the distribution box, and will probably get one. One question: is this PowMr solar inverter charger UL listed?
This is probably going to sound unintelligent, but, is there a higher voltage option? What's the feasibility? Asking from the perspective of preparing to buy land, homestead, and a shop with 3-phase power, including many "employees" aka, CNC, 3-d printing, laser cutting, etc.
I need this for my sump pump. Thank you very much for the video. I haven’t seen a video out yet by anyone that will show what size of system that is needed to run a house well pump system. Water softener and iron removal system the whole thing . Most well pumps I assume are 240 volts. Thanks again.
Inductive loads require special consideration due to the startup current requirements and reactive power. The battery bank itself would have no trouble with the pumps, it really comes down to the inverter. When dealing with AC motors you need to start considering LF (low frequency) inverters. Most all-in-one hybrid solar inverters are high frequency inverters. For 240VAC loads you want to look at more proficient hybrid inverters such as the EG4 6000XP (which has split-phase output). That, however, is still a HF inverter so you end up either ganging two together, or you buy a discrete LF inverter specifically to handle the inductive loads and leave the HF inverter for everything else. Examples of LF inverters would be something like a Schneider (for high quality). Also Victron (mid-market), and AIMS (mass market, not as high quality), and a number of others. I know I'm missing a bunch of good LF inverters in that list. The amount of solar needed can rise quickly as the inverter size increases, due to the idle consumption and general power consumption of the system.
Ali Express offers this in split phase config for abvout $750. I wonder if it would run my 220 volt stick welder with just one battery as you have in this setup? Good info. Subscribed.
I have the exact same setup, inverter and battery models. While rushing, I shorted the Positive from the Inverter to the Negative on the battery and think I messed up the battery. I only show 15 instead of 16 cells on the BMS. However, when I opened up the battery I only see what looks like 14 cells. Any chance you opened up the battery and can help me understand the count? Apoligize if this is not the correct way to communicate... Never really commented on UA-cam before.
Hi David, Good video as usual. I have a few questions, if I may. You have a circuit breaker/ disconnect going from the inverter to the battery. Is it necessary to have that with a circuit breaker already on the battery or is it just an added safeguard? Also, did you have to buy at least ten panels from Signature or did they just sell you four? They did have a special up until Valentine's day for free shipping. The reason I asked about the panels is because that inverter can handle about eight to ten of those panels. Maybe you have plans to add more later? Maybe you bought a bright mount that only holds four of those sized panels? Maybe I think too much and ask too many questions? LOL. Also, if you need more panels in the future, the Facebook market place is a good place to look if you have something big enough to haul them in, like a pickup. You can save on freight charges that way. I look forward to hearing more about this system and that 48v 100ah battery. BTW...just a few days ago a channel named"Beat the bush" did a complete tear down of that very battery. It has bolt on bus bars, not laser welded but I bet you already know that. I just want to thank you for all you do and look forward to your future solar adventures. As always, much appreciated, Steve.
OK, let's think about this 12 v takes less panels to charge batteries you need over48 v panel push the power. Let's go to the medium and go 24 V. It seems to work really good for me. in some areas.low frequency lasts longer for long-term
There are many versions of this inverter on the market. What I couldn't find out is if it could bypass straight from the grid to the appliance. Dose this mean you don't actually need a battery? I want to set this up for my 2kwh hottie heater and make it as cheap as possible. My hot tub cost £1k a year to run and adding a 3kwh solar array will definitely take that price down. In the uk I can build this for £700 including the pannals. But if I can save money by not buying battery it would save me £1.3k. Please advise me.
What about the WIFI ? I see an antenna. I have the 24v version. Would you or anyone happen to know how to set it so the inverter automatically switches off after a certain amount of time like you mentioned? BTW, thanks for another excellently produced video.
Great video, not sure how I missed it when it was posted. I had a question about the 48v setup when its in off grid mode, so just charging the battery and supplying power when needed. If the solar panels are still producing power and the battery is full and no load on the system does the inverter/charger just stop accepting solar input? as in it'll auto cut off drawing power from the solar? Cheers.
batteries are getting chesper you can get 15kw wall mounted battery for $3000 a lot off off grid use 30 kw or they use rack batterie 5kw were coming down to $1000 each prices went up so you beed 6 the good thing about wall mount you use less wiring
Been looking at changing from 12v to 48v grow-watt all in one + battery, from what I have read the all in one is a bit noisy, please comment if you have one
Think I'm about to cut my loss on powr mr it fried a new battery and when I got it all fixed and flipped ac out breaker it fed power to solar and now I have to replace diodes
when you say " if you have a system over 2000 watts consider 48v" are you referring to the total watts produced in 24hrs? or are you referring to having an inverter that is larger than 2000 watts?
Another fine video, I do have a question about the DC breaker you installed between the All-in-one and the battery. That particular battery has one built in, so is there another reason to add the second one?
Hi, I'm building a 48vt systems almost just like the one in your video and was wondering what gauge wire you used to connect that ac distribution box? Looks like a dryer wire????
@JimsPhotographyArt well first you need to verify the largest gauge wire your inverter terminals will support. Then base your wire gauge on the maximum output current from your inverter without exceeding the terminal gauge size limit. Usually these terminals will only support the max gauge equivalent to the inverter max current output anyway, but still good to check first. I'd also recommend getting extra flexible wire if you're needing to use something like 6 awg since (for example) using 6-3 Romex is extremely hard to work with if the interver doesn't give you much room to work with under the terminals.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Thanks for responding. I'm using the SunGold 48vt 5000watt unit. They recommend 10mm or 6 awg wire. I was wondering if that's what you used, if it would work in that distribution box as that's what I'm going to be using as my ac out box.
@JimsPhotographyArt i ended up using 8 awg...mostly because the terminals on my 48V were REALLY difficult to seat AWG. 6 would be optimal, but since I know I'd never be running full out at 5KW except maybe very briefly, 8 AWG was fair game, especially with such a short cable run. But if you can, try and use AWG.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Yeah, I know i won't be ever peaking at 5000 watts either. I just have a small fridge that cycles at 68 watts, a computer center and router box, security system, and some led light strips....I may run an instapot cooker or hotplate on this system in a power outage but thats about it. I went with a 48vt system so I wouldn't max out or over heat a 12vt system in a power outage running the things I just mentioned, Plus the 48vt system leaves me a little breathing room just in case I want to plug a couple other small items in. Thanks for your help.
The 12v system is still more practical than 24 or 48 volts. If you want to install 12v devices like sockets, 12v heaters, 12v lights, 12v appliances, 12v inflator, 12v etc. you get the picture. Besides the heavy cables. 12v is still the king. Let me know when they start making 48v devices. Cybertruck is supposed to be 48v platform. But Tesla ran into a snag. No one makes 48v devices. Tesla was forced to convert 48v to 12v.
I'm consistently using 4 of them for the past couple of months. Very happy with them. I do intend to do a video to investigate how much (if any ) difference I can get out of the 'bi-facial' cells. Just waiting on more consistent sun and temp conditions. If I had to find SOMETHING to complain about...I'd say the MC4 connectors on those are a BEAR to disconnect once you connect them. Not going to be an issue for most people, but for me (since I change things up regularly for testing purposes), they're super annoying. Had to modify an old 2-prong extension cord plug to use as disconnect tool since the 'normal' MC4 tools don't fit the connector style Hyundai is using. :P
I have the Victron Multiplus 12v 3000 120. It's one of thier inverter\charger unit. I got it wired up in my RV. I have 30a shore power and my solar system.. I wish the programming for it was designed better like this PowMr. There's only one option in the software to "limit internal charger to prioritze other engergy sources". It doesn't seem to work. Just this setting might be enough to buy one of these.
on the other hand, despite the functional limitations, Victron DOES use extremely high-quality components, which is why they also typically cost 2-3x more.
Based on your video, I decided to choose PowMr, and 5k inverter. As far as panels go, those Hyundai are cheap! How do you like them? I found a place that sells them for $140/ea. If I do 2 parallel pairs of 5 in series, it gets me close to 5KW. 244V 20.46A. Would you suggest this array config? I'm new to solar.
Yeah, I think that would be a great panel configuration for that Inverter...right in the middle of the voltage range with the rated current still giving you plenty of room to grow. :)
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Just a followup, I have it all installed. Found the Hyundai panels (400W bifacial) for $118 ea, bought 10. Really happy with this setup. It's powering my off-grid cabin. Your video really helped, especially the settings and product recommendations. Thanks again!
They have a version with a 240V outlet on it, in addition to the 120V outlets. But if you're talking about the whole thing in 220V 50Hz standard, I'm not finding anything. You might try AliExpress or Alibaba. This particular unit brand is: JINDOUZI
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Same here. I looked up several brands but nothing that looks like yours maybe i can find it with the name you just gave me .Thanks for the help and information.
Hi my name is Joseph mrisho i m up coming installer ,i have an inverter 12v hybrid2200VA /1800W, now i have one panel of 550w and 12v battery tubra.but Rated solar power to charge is 2000w ,now can i add how many panel for 550w?
Great info. Could you do a quick video on how you would incorporate that 48v set up into an RV? Interested in where you would incorporate the 12v loads including a step down from 48 to 12. I keep thinking I have this all figured out, but I believe the theory is where I am getting tripped up. I can't seem to wrap my mind around having multiple power sources coming into a single busbar (which it appears everyone does in the video setups I see). Thanks
Basically you make the 48V system the "home" battery. The biggest, baddest, beefiest energy storage in the RV is the 48V system. That handles all the major loads. All the solar, charging, and other power sources go into the 48V system. It is the hub for everything big and also runs all the AC inverters. The biggest decision you have to make (see below, the third section) is how to deal with the vehicle alternator. I'm saving that for last. -- An RV will still have a lot of DC 12V loads regardless... the stabilizers, pop-outs, often the lighting and many other small loads are typically 12VDC. To handle these loads you first calculate just how much power and energy storage you need and you size a 12.8V LiFePO4 battery to that need. For example, a 100Ah 12.8V LiFePO4 battery can push 1200W continuously and typically surge to 2400W or higher. Tying them together, you simply have a 48V-to-12V DC-to-DC charger (Victron makes one, for example) to keep the 12V battery fully charged. This is called down-buffering. It does not have to be a beefy charger, it can trickle-charge the 12V battery. It just needs to produce a tad more energy than your typical "continuous" consumption (aka lighting) would eat. So usually 8-12A is plenty. Some people use smaller 48-to-12V DC-to-DC converters without a buffer battery, but I strongly recommend using a proper 48-to-12 DC-to-DC charger with a "small" buffer battery (just big enough to handle the necessary 12V power delivery and surges). -- The major decision you have to make is how to integrate the vehicle alternator and the starter battery. My recommendation: Keep things as simple as possible when it comes to the starter battery and vehicle alternator, meaning don't try to charge the 48V home bank from the alternator (if you have only one alternator). If you have room for a second alternator, then consider upgrading it to 48V and charging the home bank from the second alternator. There are numerous other choices here as well. Some people don't even bother having the alternator charge the home bank, instead relying only on their solar, external power, and generator for that. -Matt
@@junkerzn7312 I'd prefer to use a larger (40a is typically plenty) 48v to 12v buck converter and skip the additional 12v house battery. But actually, in an RV I'd seriously consider 24v instead of 48v. Usually the inverter is the big load and 24v is reasonable for RV inverter sizes even when powering dual air conditioners. 24v might be an advantage because many things are available in 24v or even flex 12v/24v because many OTR trucks use 24v.
@@Sylvan_dB There are good arguments that can be made. I would say, though, that most of the practical 12V and 24V solutions revolve around retrofits and not so much complete refits / new-fits, or new builds. If one has a lot of legacy 12V or 24V gear, upgrading to 48V might not be financially feasible. For dc-to-dc... well, for low power solutions a direct DC-to-DC is fine. A very cheap solution that will work well. But consider what it would take to support, say, a 200A startup surge on a 12V system? Or even just a 70A surge (the typical startup surge for leveling motors). At that point the down-buffer solution is not only less expensive, it is also far more robust and won't even break a sweat. A tiny little 100Ah 12.8V LiFePO4 satellite battery doesn't even get warm at 50A, can push 100A continuously, and can handle several hundred amps of startup surge. There are many other advantages too. The loads on the down-buffered battery are independent of the main system, for example. -- The main issue these days is that people want all the comforts of home in their RV, and to not have to worry about tripping limits. It is incredibly easy to blow past 3kW, even past 5kW, just with a fully outfitted kitchen (induction burner, microwave, toaster-oven, tea kettle). Add everything else in and the max power can really get up there. Macerating toilet, hot water, motorized pop-outs, leveling, mini-splits or A/C (x 2), and so on and so forth. Plus people only want to have to run their generator once a day for maybe 1-2 hours at the most in worst-case conditions. And put incredible amounts of solar on the roof (some people even have rails for pulling out even more solar when parked). 2kW is not uncommon on a big RV. Plus people want buddy connectors, beefy external hookups. The list is endless. Not everyone wants all of this, for certain, but most people want to be able to have the flexibility to expand into it over time. 24V can get strained pretty quickly. I will also note that cab-to-trailer power interconnects are often being omitted now. People are willing to forego alternator charging entirely in favor of just having solar, generator, and external hookups. -Matt
I tried the 48 volt system and the 36 volt system the problem was i didn't have enough solar to make the system run smooth. A 12 volt system like you said its prob. good for 2000 watts or less. I have about 400 watts in solar panels on a 12 volt system and it runs perfectly. I'm going to switch over to a 24 volt system with no solar connected to run my box Freezer at night. I'm not sure how it will run until I see the final results. Do you know if a 24 volts system would be a lot more efficient than a 12 volt?
There's definitely a measurable difference in battery capacity utilization efficiency, even with 24V. I actually demonstrated this in my parallel vs series video awhile back if you want to see the difference: ua-cam.com/video/EDLxolJ0QxI/v-deo.htmlsi=xzTnNJBXsoPDuM4o
The main requirement for solar on a 48V system is that the operating voltage of the solar string should generally be north of 61V (and VOC 70V+) for the charge controller to work properly. That's it. 3 x 100W panels will usually do the job. Read the label on the panel for V(operating) and V(open-circuit) to figure out how many panels in series you need, and also make sure the the sum of the VOCs does not exceed the voltage limit of the charge controller. Other than making sure requirements are met, the solar will put just as much energy into a 48V system daily as it will into lower voltage systems. More, in fact, because line losses are lower at higher voltages. The solar has to be configured properly and that is what trips some people up. 2 x Residential panels in series, or 3 x 100W (or 200W) panels in series, or 4 x 75W panels, or 4 x 50W panels, or 4 x 25W panels... in series. That's usually the minimum configuration for solar on a 48V system. If variable shading is an issue adding an additional panel in series helps a lot, but again you have to make sure the worst-case VOC is under the charge controller's max input voltage. Well, de-rate by 20% or so just to be safe. A Victron SmartSolar 150/35 is an excellent fit for a 48V system. A Victron 100/20 works with 3 x 100W/200W series configurations but the voltage range is pretty tight. You need 61V (operating) but a Victron 100/20 can only handle up to 100V (open-circuit).. which is really more like 80V or 85V if you push it to give yourself margin for bright/cold conditions. -Matt
Their functionality is pretty much identical, except for the 48V system voltage, 5000W inverter and (I think) larger solar input capacity. The user-interface itself and general construction seem to me to be virtually the same as the SunGoldPower. I wouldn't be surprised if these are built by the same people.
I keep seeing everyone making videos about 12v systems compared to 48v systems, why is nobody showing 24v systems? Cause all that garbage of reaching over 2000watts 48 is better is nonsense when using 24v systems and is easier to maintain in regards to pricing when compared to 48
Usually the point at which costs start to escalate is over 100A. Once you go over that the cost of wiring and OCP starts to become expensive, at least for genuine stuff you can rely on. 100A at 24V is around 2.5kW (voltage of the battery is > 24v for a lot of the time). At 150A it's seriously time to start thinking 48V to halve it.
@@retrozmachine1189 I have 2 systems, 1 is 48volts @ 20kw with lithium batteries, 4 batteries 5k each, and I have a 24v system which I built at my mom's house, 24volts 60kw, lithium, the 34v system runs everything, water pump, lights, TV, 2 deep freeze and a 2 door standing fridge, it does everything the 48 does with ease
I beg to differ, I run a small system using a schneider 24v, it runs everything, been doing it over 10yrs now with no issues, water pumps, jack hammer, saws, drills, TV, fridge, computers, EVERYTHING, the only thing people seem to miss is the battery draw, ya cant use a limited amount of batteries or the inverter will struggle, I have 60kw of lithium @ 24v, the system runs flawlessly
hey can you help i have powmr 3 phase 12kw model . i have wired it all profesionally payed electrician , today was first day when it was connected. i am getting around 700 volts from panels but it was cloudy day and amps were very low like 2 or 3 amps . is that normal ? if amps are that low but voltage is high is that normal for cloudy day ? and can you run anything on house with low amps like that or no ? i do have 5kwh battery hooked up to it as well.
what kinda specs should the solar panels be for a 48 v system with this powmr inverter ? like how many watts ? and can i link two or more 24 v batteries instead of one big one like the one in ure video ?
Yeah, you can definitely connect 2 24V batteries in series to get a 48V battery bank. Regarding solar, you can use whatever panels you want, provided that you don't exceed a combined 450V input from those panels, or you risk damaging the charge controller. The max solar power output is 5500W..but you can overpanel by putting MORE solar power in than that if you stay under 450V. The amp input cap is 22A, so be aware that if you configure a panel array that is higher than 22A, the charge controller will still cap the current at 22A and you'll be 'wasting' input potential.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors would you please tell me how you wire the inlet from transfer switch to the inverter? Inverter only have 3 wires out (incl ground) but even the 30amp inlet requires 4 wires
I get confused when they say AC charging as 60A or 80A,,new ones go up to 120A., Is this DC, I would assume its DC for batteries, perhaps unfortunate choice of words to call it a AC charger...My shed is MAX 30 A AC so I do not want to pull too much.. Thanks if you can confirm its DC.
Yeah, it's an 'AC' Charger because it's taking AC grid power and converting it to DC to charge the battery. And so when you see a battery charger with a rated charge current of say 30A, it's referring to the DC current going to the battery. So a 30A charger for a 48V battery system will be pushing something like 1500W...but on the AC side, divide that 1500W by 120V and you're only talking
@@ReeWrayOutdoors I an in Uk night rate charging seems cheaper than solar. 240V 10A on AC side so 2400w 24v 100A on DC side, would be maximum safe contiuious, I think.
Ok guys I need some help with this thing if anybody can help. I have this thing hooked up, exact, same as this guy in a video here. But it’s wanting to stay in hybrid motor or something when I cut the DC power breaker off it will not pull power from my Solar panels or batteries can anybody tell me why why does brake have to be on for the DC power to go into it for it to push Power into my sub panel box ??
A "battery array" ... is called a battery. Inside that 12v battery is an array of 4 cells in series. Each cell might be an array of many cells in parallel. It comes from military, where a battery might be one or more units, and if you add more units to it, it is still a battery.
Are you serious? Don't check your laptop to see if it stays on during the transition. Your laptop has its own battery installed and the AC going into it will be used to top off the battery while it is plugged in. Try a higher amperage load running strictly on AC to see if it will actually act as an Uninterrupted Power Source.
Don’t go 12v. Don’t waste your time. Always do at least 48v and it’s because you will not be happy with just a couple 12v batteries and a little inverter. What’s gonna happen is you’re gonna buy a little inverter and a couple 12v batteries and then 5 months down the road you’re gonna get another battery and parallel it into the system and then get a bigger inverter and then you gonna get some solar panels and a charge controller and then 3 months after that you’re gonna get more solar panels and then $9,000.00 into the 12v system you’re gonna say “FUCK!!!! I don’t want 4 solar charge controllers and all these giant cables and shit FUCK!! I SHOULDA WENT 48V and I’d only need one big ass all in 1 inverter charge controller charger” Don’t do it. Just stfu and go 48v.
12volt has the benefits of powering some comon dc loads. 48v is the most logical next step. Even though I have just purchased a 24v multiplus lol. Well the reason is I have already 8, 305ah cells running a 12v system. I can use my existing 12/24v charge controllers ect.... and well I'm doing something odd and feeding two 48v 130ah batteries to feed into my 12v system when required(via charge controller).... a hybrid 48/12(soon to be 24v)system haha
Why is there so much talk and not enough wiring work . Also why are there many explaining on 12vts and 48 vts .. im confused 😮😢also the breakers grom battery to inverter in not necessary. Maybe the solar panel breaker or disconnect switch it just looks good but not necessarily needed. The inverter already acts as a disconnect. To much yeahra yeahra.
That would be true IF I left the original battery in...but as I state in the video, I removed that...so it actually does not run without being plugged in
There's no way I'd do the 48vt. The 48 system is barely used, so you cant hardly find a part you need. Might be because all those parts are made in some sweat shop in southern Asia who just turned 12
I can't absorve all your knowledge in a 30 min video... how about if I send you details of my system and needs, and you tell me what I'llneed to get it working?...
![Why a 48V System is Better than a 12V? [Vatrer Power]](/img/n.gif)
Off grid 20+ years and my system is 12 volt. The reason is off gridders use a lot of 12 volt appliances like pumps, fridge/freezers, lights and cooking appliances. Those will run off direct DC with no inverter needed so no loss and they will run even if the batt voltage drops below the cut off point of the inverter. Those are survival systems we need to run all the time.
You can run 12 volt appliances off 48 volt with a drop down converter but then you are losing up to 15% efficiency and that is not good when you have a smaller system and off gridders are not connected to the grid to recharge.
Orrr... Get a 48V step down converter thats around 98% some efficiency
i've been offgrid for about 40 years, but truthfully not very sophisticated before about 20+ years either. I started out with 12V and all DC too, but when I wanted to upgrade anything, 12V is more limited. About 20 years ago, I put in a bunch of inverters and went to 24V. I still have 12V possible and run some lights that way, but there are a LOT of advantages going up to 48V which I will be doing in the next couple years. Unfortunately I won't be able to use my old 24V Max outback inverters. Oh well, they have paid for themselves, and the new systems are actually much better and much cheaper.
Unless I missed it, one important safety item he didn't mention is that when yo go to 48V from 12 or 24V you are now in the realm of electrocution hazards, so must be very careful working on the system, making sure things are disconnected/powered off as needed. 50V is apparently the point where DC current can traverse skin, and a charged 48V battery is 51.2V.
You have to try pretty hard to get a shock off 50 VDC. Shock / electrocution hazards are more of a sliding scale of probability than a hard cut off. Yes, if you are soaked and your fingerprints have gone wrinkly 50V is enough to give you a jolt. If you are just a regular dry person it's perfectly safe.
At 2000 watts of solar, i think i have outgrown my 12v system so i'm thinking of upgrading to 24v since it's safer than 48.
Thx man I was on the fence bout the powmr but finding a gem of videos like this helps make a better decision than most the amazon reviews. I'd say 60% of the reviewers don't understand how to hook up and setup systems without damaging them, then immediately blame seller's for bad products.
A minor correction... the idle power draw of an inverter has nothing to do with the input voltage. It is mostly just a function of the output wattage the inverter is designed for, as well as the quality of the design and type of inverter.
The *efficiency* of the inverter does have a relationship with input voltage. 48V inverters are typically more efficient than 12V inverters. Though it isn't a huge difference, it does mean that 48V inverters generally run a quite a bit cooler than 12V inverters.
What does hold as a general rule of thumb is to size the inverter only just slightly larger than your max load, to minimize the vampire draw. The vampire draw, particularly from all-in-one units, can be substantial. The vampire draw for discrete inverters is typically quite a bit less.
PowMr wouldn't be my first choice for an all-in-one. I'd look at the EG4 6000XP first. Finally, note that the hybrid inverters are quite useful for their AC handling and battery charging functionality, but in terms of the solar and the inverter you can always slap on additional discrete charge controllers and inverters and not be restricted to the limitations of what is built into the hybrid inverter.
One of the best things about 48V systems is that you can feed a lot of solar into very cheap charge controllers. A cheap little Victron 100/20 can handle 1000W+ of solar on a 48V system.
-Matt
Matt, care to explain to me why this isn't your first choice and what does the one you suggested do that this one can not? I am trying to learn about solar systems before I build one up for my RV. Thank you
@@yazenaswad5918 The PowMr? Beyond it just being a brand that doesn't actually make their own gear? There's a reason why their hardware looks suspiciously like the stuff sold by half a dozen other brands. Not that an EG4 would be my first choice either. I'd spend the extra money and get a Victron Multiplus II because the idle consumption is really low, equipment quality is high, and Victron honors their warranty.
Ignoring that, though, and just sticking to technical issues, I can give you a few very simple things to focus on while designing your own system:
* First, people putting together solar power systems for the first time universally underestimate how much solar they need, how much power handling they need, and how much battery storage they need. This is particularly true for people who have a chance to select their system voltage in a brand new system and think 12V will be enough for them, only to find out 6 months later that it really wasn't.
The best way to start is to throw together a tiny system out of discrete parts (discrete battery, inverter, panels, and charge controller) and learn how it all works. Get a feel for the energy production, storage, and consumption. Not something you intend to expand later, but just a tiny little system that you can learn from and get some minimal use out of.
* Second, people seriously underestimate the energy cost of the vampire loads on their system that drain away a good chunk of the power their panels produce every day. The inverter idle consumption is extremely important in that regard. There is a huge, huge difference between an idle consumption of 15W and an idle consumption of 50W. And also the vampire consumption for everything else being powered. Fridge, lights (including night security lighting), internet, and the list goes on. They are all important.
My best advice here is to have a good understanding of the difference between "watts" and "watt-hours".
* Think hard about maintenance cost as equipment ages and breaks.
It is a whole lot easier to replace bits and pieces in a system made out of discrete components than it is to replace an expensive all-in-one. Sometimes all-in-one's are necessary. But much of the time they are a short-cut that burns more money than you intended to spend down the line.
* And consider redundancies. Redundancies are important because when you don't have them a failure anywhere in the system can take the whole system down. It can take a while to fix and cause serious problems if you are out in the middle of nowhere when it happens.
For example, putting several batteries in parallel, having more than one charge controller, each fed by its own solar string, having a backup inverter. And so on.
-Matt
G right on
This video just made me consider using PowMR for my next project.
Do you think he makes money from selling these, I think YES
@@portagepete1well, I really don't give a damn. If he does, everyone has got to have to earn for a living. I myself is an enterpreneur.
The point is, he is honestly sharing his thoughts about the product and I am learning.
48V systems do seem a lot more simple to diy. I had been towing with the idea of a portable diy in 12V. No reason other than more of a learning scenario for me. Had I known about stuff like this several years ago I would not have purchased all my Jackeries, EcoFlows, and Inergy Kodiak. Great video and thank for the information. I do like that distribution box you have.
Great Job! Very clear and concise explanation between the two systems. Up front cost for 48V systems can be a bit higher than 12V in regards to batteries and/or All-in-one units but the payoff in performance is there. I run in middle of the pack with a 24v system as my main BU pushing a Growatt 3K AIO and it meets my needs perfectly. Also run a 12V MPP 1K for smaller tasks (All pieced together over time). Will probably be switching over to a 48V as main in the future, just have to warrant the cost for the Wife. 😁 Great video-Have a great day! BTW, I really like that AC Distribution box, going to pick one of those up-Thanks for the link!
And not just performance... Consider wire size and cost and the difficulty of dealing with large wire sizes. If you need 200 amps sustained, you need 4/0 (0000) wiring. If that is on a 12v system, going to a 48v system means you only need 50 amps sustained, which is comfortable on 6ga and very conservative on 4ga.
What is the lowest panel wattage required to turn the system on? Reason I ask is because some buyers might not have the money to pay for a huge array immediately. As they have more money they can add more panels and more batteries. Eg. 5kw powmr 48v and 2 24v 200A LiFeSO4. And extendable as more money becomes available.
Hello does this Hybrid inverter push current back into the Grid?
There is a disconnect on your battery, you you have a disconnect after a disconnect. The point of the rack server and all in one you don't need the disconnects as they are already installed.
came from both offgrid and hybrid inverters but i suggest to those that would try solar power in "OFF-GRID" setup ,go for separate system not that all in one/hybrid system .those powMr hybrid inverters are mis leading inverters .as an example for that inverter that was shown it is stated as 6.2kw if im wrong as i have the same powMr inverter .that inverter cant produce the specified power output on a battery source .it can only produce ~2kw .and it cant do surge power .as an example .you are hook into grid and your load is about 3kw .in specs the 6.2kw/5kw inverter can still support it but wait when you suddenly got into blackout .your inverter will be in trouble no doubt .
unlike those with separate setup .like that of the total off grid inverter and a seperate mppt scc module .i atone to go with that setup .that 2kw off grid inverter can even do x3 surge power @ at least 10s .which is so convenient unlike that of mis leading powMr inverter .your just wasting your money on that shit .
if you want my suggestion go with ZANDOM offgrid inverter .im currently using 6kw zandom inverter .and my load is 2pcs 1hp AC with 2hp refrigerator in a continues load .even if i forgot about the surge power of them 3 switching on at the same time ZANDOM inverter can handle that load no sweat .because it is capable of surge power for up to 3x of its power at 20s .im now buying their 10kw .forget those hybrid shits .those hybrid shits as scam if you're on a total off grid setup
Hi, thanks for great presentation in simple clear terms . . . the only thing I would think to add which is not covered in your circuits, (and I see presented by others), is that of battery fusing . . . the safety parameter here is to guard from internal battery shorts and temporary high current damage, which (apparently), is not guarded by DC disconnects such as in your circuitry, it would be nice to know your opinion on that ?, many fuse at the battery terminal, and various types of fuses allow high current breakage without spark, and risk of fire or explosion, lastly it would be nice to know, when there are several very similar inverters from one manufacturer, what the model ID's are, and what specifically differs, (I believe one of the split phase units can be wired as 120v, 240v, or a 120/240v combination - out of the box so to speak!), nowhere yet have I found a simple comparison on the different 48v PowMR units, (even the PowMR site is not great), once again, thanks for your work, nice easy listening, clear recording of audio and video, and concise explanations are most welcome! :-)
Of course you should choose a 48 Volt system. Just NOT a short lived, low surge, high frequency inverter system. Low frequency transformer based inverter charger, make a far better choice.
yes I agree, but there is much less choice and higher cost of low frequency inverters, I would like to see a review of all currently available, for a given output size e.g. 5kw being arguably the most popular increment. . . the beauty of cheap HF units is that it is almost cheaper to buy 2 and wire them side by side with switching for manual changeover if a failure occurs, there is much to juggle, in the cost, quality and warranty index.
Thank you for post this video, your explain to me all i need!! Thanks again!!
I was looking at 48v but the best price/w battery ended up being 24v. Like 0.156 cents per watt. Got the 3200W model (needed lower voltage PV input) but it is 2400W on the circuit breakers and cables.
Thank you, that's very useful.
I installed a 24v version from eco-worthy and I'm super happy with it
Hey how long did you have that inverter? Any issues?
Installed end of Nov...
Had 3 test runs without any issues
Installing my 24v eco worthy solar system this weekend. Hoping for the best
Have fun
Great review, thanks, what do you think about the powmr 48v 5000w low frequency inverter?
What size braker/ fuse are u using or u recommended for 9 pannels rated at 305w voc 45.35 ..the braker between the solar panels and box
Thank you for this review, I just got the PowMr 3200W 24v and I believe this video should help me set it up easily without intimidation.
Hello. I just got the POW-4.2M-24V-N
I see you got the similar model. I have no idea how to program it. Sadly.
It keeps beeping twice every 3 seconds and the soler Panel icon is flashing. Not sure what that mean or what I could do. Any idea?
Thank you.
I watch the video on here. But he did not mention anything like that. Maybe you have an idea.
Thank you
PV input too low , warning code 15
What about a batteryless or no battery setup so the solar power would power the 110/120 volt AC output?
Good video and product explanation.
What settings are you using on your PowMr for the battery charging? I have a 10Kw PowMr /51.2V lithium and once the battery reaches full charge, the charge voltage spike to like 59V and trips the inverter. Any help would be much appreciated. Great videos! Thanks!
Do you know if this unit can take some battery power if grid power is insufficient?
For example, you have 15a coming in on the 115vac side, but you want to draw 45-50amps.
Is there a way to limit shore power to 12-13amps and supplement the rest of required draw from batteries?
I have a situation where only 13amps is available as shore power to the RV, but if I want to precool the RV, the AC would draw 22amps.
Victron calls it power assist.
I like the way PowMr separated DC in/ out pv and AC in and out..I know you probably the only one using the system but it's best to put that ac input wire far from inverter output otherwise you might have a situation where someone plugs inverter input into inverter output..
Just keep in mind that there is usually no isolation between the PV and AC in/out of most of these things. That is to say that even without solar panels connected the PV input terminals must be considered to be live and dangerous. Most of the generic manuals for these types of all-in-ones do make indirect mention of it by way of telling you to not earth the wiring to the solar panels etc.
Great info. Thank you. Can you please do a video showing your solar panel setup for this system. Is it ground mount or on the shed roof?
I keep hearing about the high cost of the cables for a 12volt system but quite often you can find booster cables heavy duty one's at garage sales and cruise the back alley and I find them all the time clamp not making connection and out to the garbage it goes wires are okay 12 foot of copper wire x 2 no cost garage sales rarely more than 10dollars I used one to hook up my 1750 watt inverter all I had to do was was cut off the clamps and put 2 battery post ends on on each cable to hook up 2 cat batteries and hooked it up to the inverter with a fuse worked great until I found out that I needed to get a pure sine wave inverter
This is exactly what I do ,cheap battery cables at garage sales.
What breaker is that you have between battery and charge controller ? i just bought one of these hybrid inverters and want to be sure and do it right .. Thank you
Very nice video--very informative. I liked the distribution box, and will probably get one. One question: is this PowMr solar inverter charger UL listed?
This is probably going to sound unintelligent, but, is there a higher voltage option? What's the feasibility? Asking from the perspective of preparing to buy land, homestead, and a shop with 3-phase power, including many "employees" aka, CNC, 3-d printing, laser cutting, etc.
I need this for my sump pump. Thank you very much for the video. I haven’t seen a video out yet by anyone that will show what size of system that is needed to run a house well pump system. Water softener and iron removal system the whole thing . Most well pumps I assume are 240 volts. Thanks again.
Inductive loads require special consideration due to the startup current requirements and reactive power. The battery bank itself would have no trouble with the pumps, it really comes down to the inverter. When dealing with AC motors you need to start considering LF (low frequency) inverters. Most all-in-one hybrid solar inverters are high frequency inverters.
For 240VAC loads you want to look at more proficient hybrid inverters such as the EG4 6000XP (which has split-phase output). That, however, is still a HF inverter so you end up either ganging two together, or you buy a discrete LF inverter specifically to handle the inductive loads and leave the HF inverter for everything else.
Examples of LF inverters would be something like a Schneider (for high quality). Also Victron (mid-market), and AIMS (mass market, not as high quality), and a number of others. I know I'm missing a bunch of good LF inverters in that list.
The amount of solar needed can rise quickly as the inverter size increases, due to the idle consumption and general power consumption of the system.
Ali Express offers this in split phase config for abvout $750. I wonder if it would run my 220 volt stick welder with just one battery as you have in this setup? Good info. Subscribed.
How did you connect to the RCD breaker? The output has L/N, did you make a local Ground with the N?
Great video information .I'm setting up a system for my New RV trailer. Do you do Solar advisements on a new Solar system.
I have the exact same setup, inverter and battery models. While rushing, I shorted the Positive from the Inverter to the Negative on the battery and think I messed up the battery. I only show 15 instead of 16 cells on the BMS. However, when I opened up the battery I only see what looks like 14 cells. Any chance you opened up the battery and can help me understand the count? Apoligize if this is not the correct way to communicate... Never really commented on UA-cam before.
Hi David,
Good video as usual. I have a few questions, if I may. You have a circuit breaker/ disconnect going from the inverter to the battery. Is it necessary to have that with a circuit breaker already on the battery or is it just an added safeguard? Also, did you have to buy at least ten panels from Signature or did they just sell you four? They did have a special up until Valentine's day for free shipping. The reason I asked about the panels is because that inverter can handle about eight to ten of those panels. Maybe you have plans to add more later? Maybe you bought a bright mount that only holds four of those sized panels? Maybe I think too much and ask too many questions? LOL. Also, if you need more panels in the future, the Facebook market place is a good place to look if you have something big enough to haul them in, like a pickup. You can save on freight charges that way. I look forward to hearing more about this system and that 48v 100ah battery. BTW...just a few days ago a channel named"Beat the bush" did a complete tear down of that very battery. It has bolt on bus bars, not laser welded but I bet you already know that. I just want to thank you for all you do and look forward to your future solar adventures.
As always, much appreciated, Steve.
make sure you use dc isolator and brakers on dc side not ac also buy good brand
Nice demonstration Sir. Is this PowMr inverter very good? I want to order 4.5KVA 24v system. Kindly advice. Is it reliable?
OK, let's think about this 12 v takes less panels to charge batteries you need over48 v panel push the power.
Let's go to the medium and go 24 V. It seems to work really good for me. in some areas.low frequency lasts longer for long-term
Great video. Where did you buy the 100ah battery?
There are many versions of this inverter on the market.
What I couldn't find out is if it could bypass straight from the grid to the appliance. Dose this mean you don't actually need a battery?
I want to set this up for my 2kwh hottie heater and make it as cheap as possible.
My hot tub cost £1k a year to run and adding a 3kwh solar array will definitely take that price down.
In the uk I can build this for £700 including the pannals.
But if I can save money by not buying battery it would save me £1.3k.
Please advise me.
What about the WIFI ? I see an antenna. I have the 24v version. Would you or anyone happen to know how to set it so the inverter automatically switches off after a certain amount of time like you mentioned? BTW, thanks for another excellently produced video.
Thanks
COOP
...
Please allow me to inquire. I want to know the code to set up Ongrid menu 38.
Great video, not sure how I missed it when it was posted. I had a question about the 48v setup when its in off grid mode, so just charging the battery and supplying power when needed. If the solar panels are still producing power and the battery is full and no load on the system does the inverter/charger just stop accepting solar input? as in it'll auto cut off drawing power from the solar? Cheers.
batteries are getting chesper you can get 15kw wall mounted battery for $3000 a lot off off grid use 30 kw or they use rack batterie 5kw were coming down to $1000 each prices went up so you beed 6 the good thing about wall mount you use less wiring
Been looking at changing from 12v to 48v grow-watt all in one + battery, from what I have read the all in one is a bit noisy, please comment if you have one
Thanks it really helped me.
Think I'm about to cut my loss on powr mr it fried a new battery and when I got it all fixed and flipped ac out breaker it fed power to solar and now I have to replace diodes
5 months in how is the Powmr inverter holding up? Is this brand worth considering?
when you say " if you have a system over 2000 watts consider 48v" are you referring to the total watts produced in 24hrs? or are you referring to having an inverter that is larger than 2000 watts?
Another fine video, I do have a question about the DC breaker you installed between the All-in-one and the battery. That particular battery has one built in, so is there another reason to add the second one?
I've done the same with my 24v system
I'd rather stop potential surges/shorts BEFORE it hits my components
These devices, on their website, are all 110v. I saw that yours said 120v (at time=321 seconds). How did you do get it to be 120?
Is it possible to use this POWMr inverter in an off grid setup ? Would any Ac mains supply ?
Yes AC mains connection is optional.
hello, can you tell me what power is the switch between battery and inverter? I have a 4000 watt inverter, what power should I put in?
My question is did you separate the grounds in that distribution box?
Are you asking if the neutral and ground should be separated or bonded in the panel supplied by the PowMr?
Hi, I'm building a 48vt systems almost just like the one in your video and was wondering what gauge wire you used to connect that ac distribution box? Looks like a dryer wire????
@JimsPhotographyArt well first you need to verify the largest gauge wire your inverter terminals will support. Then base your wire gauge on the maximum output current from your inverter without exceeding the terminal gauge size limit. Usually these terminals will only support the max gauge equivalent to the inverter max current output anyway, but still good to check first. I'd also recommend getting extra flexible wire if you're needing to use something like 6 awg since (for example) using 6-3 Romex is extremely hard to work with if the interver doesn't give you much room to work with under the terminals.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Thanks for responding. I'm using the SunGold 48vt 5000watt unit. They recommend 10mm or 6 awg wire. I was wondering if that's what you used, if it would work in that distribution box as that's what I'm going to be using as my ac out box.
@JimsPhotographyArt i ended up using 8 awg...mostly because the terminals on my 48V were REALLY difficult to seat AWG. 6 would be optimal, but since I know I'd never be running full out at 5KW except maybe very briefly, 8 AWG was fair game, especially with such a short cable run. But if you can, try and use AWG.
But yeah...pretty sure that distribution box would handle 6 AWG (easier than the inverter terminals!)
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Yeah, I know i won't be ever peaking at 5000 watts either. I just have a small fridge that cycles at 68 watts, a computer center and router box, security system, and some led light strips....I may run an instapot cooker or hotplate on this system in a power outage but thats about it. I went with a 48vt system so I wouldn't max out or over heat a 12vt system in a power outage running the things I just mentioned, Plus the 48vt system leaves me a little breathing room just in case I want to plug a couple other small items in. Thanks for your help.
The 12v system is still more practical than 24 or 48 volts.
If you want to install 12v devices like sockets, 12v heaters, 12v lights, 12v appliances, 12v inflator, 12v etc. you get the picture.
Besides the heavy cables. 12v is still the king.
Let me know when they start making 48v devices.
Cybertruck is supposed to be 48v platform. But Tesla ran into a snag.
No one makes 48v devices. Tesla was forced to convert 48v to 12v.
What if i don't want to install any 12v devices? Only 120vac.
Question-have you set up your new Hyundi panels and how do you like them?
I'm consistently using 4 of them for the past couple of months. Very happy with them. I do intend to do a video to investigate how much (if any ) difference I can get out of the 'bi-facial' cells. Just waiting on more consistent sun and temp conditions. If I had to find SOMETHING to complain about...I'd say the MC4 connectors on those are a BEAR to disconnect once you connect them. Not going to be an issue for most people, but for me (since I change things up regularly for testing purposes), they're super annoying. Had to modify an old 2-prong extension cord plug to use as disconnect tool since the 'normal' MC4 tools don't fit the connector style Hyundai is using. :P
Thanks so much for your video
Is your battery cutoff switch necessary when your battery has a switch? Or is there another reason you added it to your system?
I didn't catch anything said in the video of whether or not the PowMr needs a minimum amount of solar to charge a battery like the EG4 unit?
I didn't say it out loud but I did show the spec plate and it says 120V input is the minimum input to charge.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors ARGH! That's disappointing, I want to buy this but only have room for a couple panels.
I have the Victron Multiplus 12v 3000 120. It's one of thier inverter\charger unit. I got it wired up in my RV. I have 30a shore power and my solar system.. I wish the programming for it was designed better like this PowMr. There's only one option in the software to "limit internal charger to prioritze other engergy sources". It doesn't seem to work. Just this setting might be enough to buy one of these.
on the other hand, despite the functional limitations, Victron DOES use extremely high-quality components, which is why they also typically cost 2-3x more.
Based on your video, I decided to choose PowMr, and 5k inverter. As far as panels go, those Hyundai are cheap! How do you like them? I found a place that sells them for $140/ea. If I do 2 parallel pairs of 5 in series, it gets me close to 5KW. 244V 20.46A. Would you suggest this array config? I'm new to solar.
Yeah, I think that would be a great panel configuration for that Inverter...right in the middle of the voltage range with the rated current still giving you plenty of room to grow. :)
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Thank you very much! Appreciate the video, explained a lot! Look forward to watching more.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Just a followup, I have it all installed. Found the Hyundai panels (400W bifacial) for $118 ea, bought 10. Really happy with this setup. It's powering my off-grid cabin.
Your video really helped, especially the settings and product recommendations. Thanks again!
Nice video and setup. Btw any idea were i can find that distribution box with the 4 outlets but then for 220 volts??
They have a version with a 240V outlet on it, in addition to the 120V outlets. But if you're talking about the whole thing in 220V 50Hz standard, I'm not finding anything. You might try AliExpress or Alibaba. This particular unit brand is: JINDOUZI
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Same here. I looked up several brands but nothing that looks like yours maybe i can find it with the name you just gave me .Thanks for the help and information.
Hi my name is Joseph mrisho i m up coming installer ,i have an inverter 12v hybrid2200VA /1800W, now i have one panel of 550w and 12v battery tubra.but Rated solar power to charge is 2000w ,now can i add how many panel for 550w?
Great info. Could you do a quick video on how you would incorporate that 48v set up into an RV? Interested in where you would incorporate the 12v loads including a step down from 48 to 12. I keep thinking I have this all figured out, but I believe the theory is where I am getting tripped up. I can't seem to wrap my mind around having multiple power sources coming into a single busbar (which it appears everyone does in the video setups I see). Thanks
Basically you make the 48V system the "home" battery. The biggest, baddest, beefiest energy storage in the RV is the 48V system. That handles all the major loads. All the solar, charging, and other power sources go into the 48V system. It is the hub for everything big and also runs all the AC inverters.
The biggest decision you have to make (see below, the third section) is how to deal with the vehicle alternator. I'm saving that for last.
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An RV will still have a lot of DC 12V loads regardless... the stabilizers, pop-outs, often the lighting and many other small loads are typically 12VDC. To handle these loads you first calculate just how much power and energy storage you need and you size a 12.8V LiFePO4 battery to that need. For example, a 100Ah 12.8V LiFePO4 battery can push 1200W continuously and typically surge to 2400W or higher.
Tying them together, you simply have a 48V-to-12V DC-to-DC charger (Victron makes one, for example) to keep the 12V battery fully charged. This is called down-buffering. It does not have to be a beefy charger, it can trickle-charge the 12V battery. It just needs to produce a tad more energy than your typical "continuous" consumption (aka lighting) would eat. So usually 8-12A is plenty.
Some people use smaller 48-to-12V DC-to-DC converters without a buffer battery, but I strongly recommend using a proper 48-to-12 DC-to-DC charger with a "small" buffer battery (just big enough to handle the necessary 12V power delivery and surges).
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The major decision you have to make is how to integrate the vehicle alternator and the starter battery.
My recommendation: Keep things as simple as possible when it comes to the starter battery and vehicle alternator, meaning don't try to charge the 48V home bank from the alternator (if you have only one alternator). If you have room for a second alternator, then consider upgrading it to 48V and charging the home bank from the second alternator.
There are numerous other choices here as well. Some people don't even bother having the alternator charge the home bank, instead relying only on their solar, external power, and generator for that.
-Matt
You cannot combine 48v and 12v on the same positive bus. They can share the negative or "common" bus.
@@junkerzn7312 I'd prefer to use a larger (40a is typically plenty) 48v to 12v buck converter and skip the additional 12v house battery.
But actually, in an RV I'd seriously consider 24v instead of 48v. Usually the inverter is the big load and 24v is reasonable for RV inverter sizes even when powering dual air conditioners. 24v might be an advantage because many things are available in 24v or even flex 12v/24v because many OTR trucks use 24v.
@@Sylvan_dB There are good arguments that can be made. I would say, though, that most of the practical 12V and 24V solutions revolve around retrofits and not so much complete refits / new-fits, or new builds. If one has a lot of legacy 12V or 24V gear, upgrading to 48V might not be financially feasible.
For dc-to-dc... well, for low power solutions a direct DC-to-DC is fine. A very cheap solution that will work well. But consider what it would take to support, say, a 200A startup surge on a 12V system? Or even just a 70A surge (the typical startup surge for leveling motors).
At that point the down-buffer solution is not only less expensive, it is also far more robust and won't even break a sweat. A tiny little 100Ah 12.8V LiFePO4 satellite battery doesn't even get warm at 50A, can push 100A continuously, and can handle several hundred amps of startup surge.
There are many other advantages too. The loads on the down-buffered battery are independent of the main system, for example.
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The main issue these days is that people want all the comforts of home in their RV, and to not have to worry about tripping limits. It is incredibly easy to blow past 3kW, even past 5kW, just with a fully outfitted kitchen (induction burner, microwave, toaster-oven, tea kettle).
Add everything else in and the max power can really get up there. Macerating toilet, hot water, motorized pop-outs, leveling, mini-splits or A/C (x 2), and so on and so forth. Plus people only want to have to run their generator once a day for maybe 1-2 hours at the most in worst-case conditions. And put incredible amounts of solar on the roof (some people even have rails for pulling out even more solar when parked). 2kW is not uncommon on a big RV. Plus people want buddy connectors, beefy external hookups. The list is endless.
Not everyone wants all of this, for certain, but most people want to be able to have the flexibility to expand into it over time. 24V can get strained pretty quickly.
I will also note that cab-to-trailer power interconnects are often being omitted now. People are willing to forego alternator charging entirely in favor of just having solar, generator, and external hookups.
-Matt
so nice video !! could i know whether you have interested in testing our powerwin 12.8v 100ah lifepo4 battery ?
Can you make a video with the wifi module and the mobile app
Can you please provide me the link for the panels please!!!
Does the inverter automatically go into bypass mode when you connect to the grid?
I tried the 48 volt system and the 36 volt system the problem was i didn't have enough solar to make the system run smooth. A 12 volt system like you said its prob. good for 2000 watts or less. I have about 400 watts in solar panels on a 12 volt system and it runs perfectly. I'm going to switch over to a 24 volt system with no solar connected to run my box Freezer at night. I'm not sure how it will run until I see the final results. Do you know if a 24 volts system would be a lot more efficient than a 12 volt?
There's definitely a measurable difference in battery capacity utilization efficiency, even with 24V. I actually demonstrated this in my parallel vs series video awhile back if you want to see the difference: ua-cam.com/video/EDLxolJ0QxI/v-deo.htmlsi=xzTnNJBXsoPDuM4o
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Awesome thanks
The main requirement for solar on a 48V system is that the operating voltage of the solar string should generally be north of 61V (and VOC 70V+) for the charge controller to work properly. That's it. 3 x 100W panels will usually do the job. Read the label on the panel for V(operating) and V(open-circuit) to figure out how many panels in series you need, and also make sure the the sum of the VOCs does not exceed the voltage limit of the charge controller.
Other than making sure requirements are met, the solar will put just as much energy into a 48V system daily as it will into lower voltage systems. More, in fact, because line losses are lower at higher voltages. The solar has to be configured properly and that is what trips some people up.
2 x Residential panels in series, or 3 x 100W (or 200W) panels in series, or 4 x 75W panels, or 4 x 50W panels, or 4 x 25W panels... in series. That's usually the minimum configuration for solar on a 48V system.
If variable shading is an issue adding an additional panel in series helps a lot, but again you have to make sure the worst-case VOC is under the charge controller's max input voltage. Well, de-rate by 20% or so just to be safe.
A Victron SmartSolar 150/35 is an excellent fit for a 48V system. A Victron 100/20 works with 3 x 100W/200W series configurations but the voltage range is pretty tight. You need 61V (operating) but a Victron 100/20 can only handle up to 100V (open-circuit).. which is really more like 80V or 85V if you push it to give yourself margin for bright/cold conditions.
-Matt
Hello, what amp on or voltage is that DC disconnect breaker, please?
Ch, Char, Charge! You made me laugh- in a good way!
Where did you buy the 35 amp breaker?
Can this inverter send power to the grid (grid-tied)?
How does this compare to the Sun Gold Power unit? This one is a little cheaper for 5000W.
Their functionality is pretty much identical, except for the 48V system voltage, 5000W inverter and (I think) larger solar input capacity. The user-interface itself and general construction seem to me to be virtually the same as the SunGoldPower. I wouldn't be surprised if these are built by the same people.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Thanks for the reply ! Im new to the solar game so I appreciate your input.
I keep seeing everyone making videos about 12v systems compared to 48v systems, why is nobody showing 24v systems? Cause all that garbage of reaching over 2000watts 48 is better is nonsense when using 24v systems and is easier to maintain in regards to pricing when compared to 48
Usually the point at which costs start to escalate is over 100A. Once you go over that the cost of wiring and OCP starts to become expensive, at least for genuine stuff you can rely on. 100A at 24V is around 2.5kW (voltage of the battery is > 24v for a lot of the time). At 150A it's seriously time to start thinking 48V to halve it.
😢nawa @@retrozmachine1189
@@retrozmachine1189 I have 2 systems, 1 is 48volts @ 20kw with lithium batteries, 4 batteries 5k each, and I have a 24v system which I built at my mom's house, 24volts 60kw, lithium, the 34v system runs everything, water pump, lights, TV, 2 deep freeze and a 2 door standing fridge, it does everything the 48 does with ease
Yes, 48 volts is the best way to go.... ALL THE TIME
I beg to differ, I run a small system using a schneider 24v, it runs everything, been doing it over 10yrs now with no issues, water pumps, jack hammer, saws, drills, TV, fridge, computers, EVERYTHING, the only thing people seem to miss is the battery draw, ya cant use a limited amount of batteries or the inverter will struggle, I have 60kw of lithium @ 24v, the system runs flawlessly
hey can you help i have powmr 3 phase 12kw model . i have wired it all profesionally payed electrician , today was first day when it was connected. i am getting around 700 volts from panels but it was cloudy day and amps were very low like 2 or 3 amps . is that normal ? if amps are that low but voltage is high is that normal for cloudy day ? and can you run anything on house with low amps like that or no ? i do have 5kwh battery hooked up to it as well.
what kinda specs should the solar panels be for a 48 v system with this powmr inverter ? like how many watts ? and can i link two or more 24 v batteries instead of one big one like the one in ure video ?
Yeah, you can definitely connect 2 24V batteries in series to get a 48V battery bank. Regarding solar, you can use whatever panels you want, provided that you don't exceed a combined 450V input from those panels, or you risk damaging the charge controller. The max solar power output is 5500W..but you can overpanel by putting MORE solar power in than that if you stay under 450V. The amp input cap is 22A, so be aware that if you configure a panel array that is higher than 22A, the charge controller will still cap the current at 22A and you'll be 'wasting' input potential.
How do u hook up a generator where i live u have to have that in winter
can the batery b 24v n solar b 48v? or it has to b all 48v? does this hav the option to charge bateries thru the car alternator?
Cuántos amperes de salida produce?
Would we be able to wire ac out to manual transfer switch, that connect to 6, or 10 breakers in my main box
Yes. I'm actually using it exactly that way now to fully run my barn workshop off solar. It's been performing great!
Great, thank you
@@ReeWrayOutdoors would you please tell me how you wire the inlet from transfer switch to the inverter? Inverter only have 3 wires out (incl ground) but even the 30amp inlet requires 4 wires
I get confused when they say AC charging as 60A or 80A,,new ones go up to 120A., Is this DC, I would assume its DC for batteries, perhaps unfortunate choice of words to call it a AC charger...My shed is MAX 30 A AC so I do not want to pull too much.. Thanks if you can confirm its DC.
Yeah, it's an 'AC' Charger because it's taking AC grid power and converting it to DC to charge the battery. And so when you see a battery charger with a rated charge current of say 30A, it's referring to the DC current going to the battery. So a 30A charger for a 48V battery system will be pushing something like 1500W...but on the AC side, divide that 1500W by 120V and you're only talking
@@ReeWrayOutdoors I an in Uk
night rate charging seems cheaper than solar.
240V 10A on AC side so
2400w
24v 100A on DC side, would be maximum safe contiuious, I think.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors or 1500w as you day uk divide 240.
6.25 Amps AC side should be safe as houses. Thanks for your time. Kind Regards.
21:28 Isn't it obvious that the laptop remains running considering that most laptops have a built-in battery that can function as a UPS?
I guess you missed it at @20:21 where I indicate that I removed the laptop's battery to ensure the test is functional appropriate.
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Yep, missed that bit. Makes sense now, thanks.
What is the idle consumption?
Ok guys I need some help with this thing if anybody can help. I have this thing hooked up, exact, same as this guy in a video here. But it’s wanting to stay in hybrid motor or something when I cut the DC power breaker off it will not pull power from my Solar panels or batteries can anybody tell me why why does brake have to be on for the DC power to go into it for it to push Power into my sub panel box ??
Can you make a update video?
A "battery array" ... is called a battery. Inside that 12v battery is an array of 4 cells in series. Each cell might be an array of many cells in parallel. It comes from military, where a battery might be one or more units, and if you add more units to it, it is still a battery.
For batteries it's called a battery bank, for Solar panels it's called a panel array
Are you serious? Don't check your laptop to see if it stays on during the transition. Your laptop has its own battery installed and the AC going into it will be used to top off the battery while it is plugged in. Try a higher amperage load running strictly on AC to see if it will actually act as an Uninterrupted Power Source.
My Powmr 48 v 500 watt does not accept the solar panels that generate 160 volts. It shows only 17 volts. It is a worthless item to me.
100.20 ?? Volts
That 63a doesn't matter that it's for 220v
Don’t go 12v. Don’t waste your time. Always do at least 48v and it’s because you will not be happy with just a couple 12v batteries and a little inverter. What’s gonna happen is you’re gonna buy a little inverter and a couple 12v batteries and then 5 months down the road you’re gonna get another battery and parallel it into the system and then get a bigger inverter and then you gonna get some solar panels and a charge controller and then 3 months after that you’re gonna get more solar panels and then $9,000.00 into the 12v system you’re gonna say “FUCK!!!! I don’t want 4 solar charge controllers and all these giant cables and shit FUCK!! I SHOULDA WENT 48V and I’d only need one big ass all in 1 inverter charge controller charger”
Don’t do it. Just stfu and go 48v.
Why is there nobody on UA-cam comparing 24v and 48v inverter system. Why is everyone doing 12v and 48v. It's terribly annoying.
Because if you're gonna step up. Doesn't make as much sense to moving from 12 to 24. It's just giving yourself a broader buffer for capacity
48v is still 2x more efficient. Don't get me wrong I love playing with 24v
check will prouse
12volt has the benefits of powering some comon dc loads. 48v is the most logical next step. Even though I have just purchased a 24v multiplus lol. Well the reason is I have already 8, 305ah cells running a 12v system. I can use my existing 12/24v charge controllers ect.... and well I'm doing something odd and feeding two 48v 130ah batteries to feed into my 12v system when required(via charge controller).... a hybrid 48/12(soon to be 24v)system haha
There is another You tuber by the name of Will Prowse. He has very good how toos and reviews of solar powered systems.
What about low voltage \ LED lights
Why is there so much talk and not enough wiring work . Also why are there many explaining on 12vts and 48 vts .. im confused 😮😢also the breakers grom battery to inverter in not necessary. Maybe the solar panel breaker or disconnect switch it just looks good but not necessarily needed. The inverter already acts as a disconnect. To much yeahra yeahra.
Laptop continues to run because it has its own battery. You need a non battery powered item to test with.
That would be true IF I left the original battery in...but as I state in the video, I removed that...so it actually does not run without being plugged in
@@ReeWrayOutdoors Ok, I guess I missed that part where you said the laptop had no battery.
There's no way I'd do the 48vt. The 48 system is barely used, so you cant hardly find a part you need. Might be because all those parts are made in some sweat shop in southern Asia who just turned 12
sir may you help me
I can't absorve all your knowledge in a 30 min video... how about if I send you details of my system and needs, and you tell me what I'llneed to get it working?...