Thank you for your very professional presentation. I noticed you don’t use circuits to balance the capacitors the way they are offered in eBay. Could you explain the reason for not using them, and when would you use them?
Thanks for the comments. You'll notice in my previous responses I identify that the balancing circuits are definitely required when you operate the capacitors at their rated voltage but in a car with a 14.4VDC alternator output, we aren't near the combined rating of 16.2VDC.
@@richardvedvik979 But without balancing circuit how you prevent that they do not slowly get unbalanced? And when you discharge them how you prevent that you do not end up reverse polariy situation if they are not balanced?
@@voidex136 Yep that was my point. It does not matter that total voltage is under combinet rated voltage. Without balancer it is just time bom with longer fuse.
@@TH-wr1dv 1,000,000 cycles a million chances. I worry about airflow bw the amps and the caps. At least the are not being run at deep cycles consistently so they will stay well within operational limits, especially if he regulates the initial charges. I've popped a 100a fuse on a half farad in an initial charge. Many designs are calling for 40a change limits. Once the battery is stiffened as long as he isn't parking lot pimping too much, over straining equipment, or overheating alternator at idle he should be good to go.
I am 3.5 mins into this video and it is a real gem. The only two things are that the audio is not great, but I got used to it. The other is that the white board is too small to be seen. Other than that, I cannot understand why the channel does not have more subscibers. The presenter is excellent!
If you're still around: If you charge a 500F/16.2v super capacitor bank at 2 amps for 1 hour is there a total of 2 amps in the cap? If short circuited would the burst be 2 amps or would it somehow be more that that? I realize it would not be fully charged after 1 hour.
Hi! I am very much around! The short circuit current would be very high, nearly instantaneous. So all of the energy supplied over the hour would be available within a second.
@@richardvedvik979Not sure if wording this correctly. Kind of like my opening line! lol But if i am giving it 2 amps for one hour is there a way of knowing what the total current the cap is holding?
Thanks for making a simple clean detailed video on caps without a bunch of extra garbage. I have a six pack of these set up in my Tundra for my sub amps. Same way no balancing circuits. Charging system has more that sufficient management of the electrical system and maintaining the caps.
It can work as a 943 mah (Calculated) battery with unlimited charge cycles as it stores electrical charges in electrical fields,whereas batteries store charges in chemical reactions
@@UnknownPerson-nl7te I see guys replacing car batteries all the time with capacitors. And they weigh in at 1/4 the weight of a car battery. I think it's time to get away from batteries all together. Imho
@@jvon3885 a car battery is capable of cranking a car many times whereas a capacitors bank at most 2-3 times,and cannot power car electronics for high time,whereas car battery can power car electronics for a high amount of time,so capacitors are not a very good option to continue with
I fuse on the input to the capacitor bank (before) with a MAXI fuse (a circuit breaker would also work) in order to isolate the cap bank from the car when disconnecting the battery. Treat these like batteries as it relates to fusing. I also fuse after the cap bank, sized for the wire, in order to limit fault energy. So , yes, two fuses.
Hi I'm trying to charge an ultracapacitor Bank. I got the Deadshot on the multimeter and blew my 50 amp fuse. When you said I could use a current limiting charger, couldn't I just use a 12 vdc wall charger with like 300 milliamp output?
Hi there. The wall transformers or wall power supplies are generally not current limiting, they would likey fail and/or catch fire quickly. Many car battery chargers are current limiting, and you could use the 2A or 10A setting.
@@richardvedvik979 Thank you! Once the capacitor is fully charged do I ever have to worry about it going to a short again? At which point (or should I say voltage) does the short come into play? Or the excessive current draw. I'm using this for car audio and the max voltage of the bank is 16 volts.
Thanks so much for the info man!! Quick question, would I be able to charge a bank of 6 3v cells with a 6s rc batt charger? The bank has balancing boards too
sorry for the delay. Charging the bank requires a source with current limiting and an output voltage set for the desired bank voltage. The benefit of capacitor banks is that they can meet whatever voltage you desire (within range). They are not limited to the design voltage of a battery.
I have a 350 amp alternator that puts out 15 volts cold then when hot its 14.5 volts. Can I use the 2.7 volt 3000 farad caps on my electrical. I need enough to power my Taramps md8000.1 amplifier. Also can I run them with my two 12 volt lead acid batteries? All of my power wire is 4/0.
Hey buddy, my 2021 Zero Sr electric motorcycle has a 14.4 kw battery pack, how many volts of super capacitor batteries as a battery pack do I need so it’s safe
I have a 72v Gem car and want to increase the length of charge /discharge (run time) on the vehicle now it has 6 lead acid 12v batteries and I am making a 12v supplemental 6 panel solar array to charge during the daytime hours. what type of system do you recommend to supplement with?
Thank you for your previous answer. Is there a way of knowing how much current the cap's can handle for a quick discharge? It seems to me that speakers require an inordinate amount of power to do their thing! Fortunately my purpose is for an e-bike 30aH battery pack.1000 watt bub motor. Not powerful magnets!
awesome video I have a Honda with a 250 amp alt a group 31 xs power in front with a group 41 in the rear. My stereo when I use it pulls about 150 amps at max my car like 45 amps with ac on etc. I also have air suspention that uses a air zenith ob2 compressor that pulls like 60 amp when filling the tank. That takes about 4-5 min it starts out fast then my volts drop slightly and it takes longer to fill. Sorry for the long would I benefit from using like a xs power super cap bank? thanks
Nop .. if IT do not drop in rpm when car is running Then IT is you bat bank ITs too small If IT drops when you enigen andcthe 250A alternators runs ITs you leads from bat to compresser ther is too thin and looong You can ofcorse make What you want .. but if leads are insufisiant .. or battery til small .. well Cape get topped off by bat .. if bat drops well Cape Will too.. resistance in too thin leads kill A in to heat in wired instead
If I hooked a 50 fared capacitor to a 100ah lifepo4 battery with a 100amp bms would it overload it charging the capacitor if the capacitor was empty when hooked up?
You'll notice that some of the "stiffening capacitors" for car audio use have either external or internal charging and discharging circuits. Each product should have some manufacturer instructions that explain that procedure. Without knowing the exact make/model you have, I would use an incandescent dome light in series with the power feed to slow the initial charge current.
I keep blowing a 500 amp amp fuse with my uSTART ultra cap would you ever condone not fusing that outflow wire from the ultra cap? It’s a 1/0 wire the uSTART is a cheap ultra cap that has been recalled previously for having the cells inside the ultra cap get shorted out? But watching this video if they are all in parallel like the box shape looks or the 6 pack how could they ever short out it would always be short if the entire ultra capacitor cell is conductive unless I misheard you and you meant the buss bar terminal posts coming from the top? Or just every part of the cell is conductive? Or do I just have to much current draw is there a way to limit that current draw per amplifier? If I connected separate wires it would all lead back that one initial inrush wire anyway right? Let me know your thoughts thank you!
I'm interested in using them primarily in Solar set ups ,I was looking for a video that explains what, an ultra-capacitor is and how to implement them safely. (for a mate who wants to power his off grid house with solar, when he moves to Spain). yea very informative , concise and well made video. good work. thanks. Ps first discovered ultra caps on a video about building a stun gun! it was literally lethal , so safety with these bad boys is a must
These would only really provide a benefit when using a quick burst of power. You may be better off actually taking what money would be invested in capacitors and putting that into the battery system. If you could provide some more details on the power consumers your friend will be using I could give you a couple of more recommendations. : )
@@realhusky Oddly enough, I bought my banks off of a seller that was disassembling solar energy storage banks. Mine were used in solar applications. I agree, it seems like the wrong product for the application. We're seeing sodium ion energy storage as being an option for future utility-grade energy storage.
I didn't hear him talk about the accessory kit for Maxwells that ensure the caps remain balanced when charging. If one take more charge than the others, and they therefore are imbalanced, you will potentially destroy the one that's imbalanced.
Why aren't you using balancing circuit boards between the caps so each Cap gets an equal charge voltage? Also, what is the current leak over time? I heard you say after several months they were at 10 volts so what was the starting charge voltage?
Good job on video, thank god u didn't put me to sleep like the other people who over explain with un necessary Junk ! You kept me awake and interested and u taught this old dawg some actual useful information !
I’ve had a bank of six of these maxwells with balancing boards in the soda can configuration since December(so almost 6 months now) but I’ve been kinda scared to actually install them. I’m going to see if I can rearrange them to be inline and mount them on top of the trunk like your last picture! I noticed you have some sort of carpet on top of them in some of the pictures. Is that just speaker box carpet?
If I were trying to use these to charge an electric scooter that says DC 12V next to the charger port, how would I do so? I need a vid that's quick but easy 😂. I'm not good with long explanations and such. Thanks for the help if you reply
@@dragonscargames4808 Using supercaps to charge batteries is not very productive because the capacitors will likely store less energy than the batteries overall. The only reason to use these instead of batteries is because they can release their stored energy almost instantly, vs batteries which hold much more but can't release it as quick.
what find totally amazing about maxwell UC's is 5+ years ago the market was so saturated with both new and used surplus UC's that the manufacturers had quit producing new units and is was not uncommon to see them selling for $10 a piece or sometimes even less then one guy starts posting youtube videos showing how he was able to successfully replace his car's battery with ultracaps and within a year the market went from massive surplus to critical shortage causing the prices to increase to the point where at times I've seen used ones selling for as much as $100 each and even now the premade ultracap poser banks are selling for as high as $800 each. I always think of the ultracap situation whenever I hear someone say that one person by themselves can't effect change or make a difference......
hi richard.i have a question..lets say that i have 6 cells of 2.7v = 16.2v and i dont use a balancing circuit. if the alternator broke and start sent 17v+ what will happen to the cells? will do explode or something?
Capacitors fail in a couple of ways, but I haven't personally seen an ultracap failure from overvoltage. From those that have, it's just a venting of electrolyte, nothing violent. the end result is a damaged cell and an open circuit (not a cascading fault). In college we used to blow up small caps with overvoltage and as the cap size increased, the excitement decreased. The larger caps just discharged their electrolytic fluid and smoked.
Ive wondered that with an ultracap's extremely low esr, and extremely high capacitance, i wonder how theyll act when used in band pass filters..? Seems like theyd totally eliminate designated frequencies and not put any back emf or noise into the audio signal.. and with duty cycles so high theyd last forever in those situations. You wouldnt need to have the huge deals you had here but never heard of anybody using em in those circuits.. or maybe i just havent seen that yet and is already a thing..
What would you recommend I have a 370amp alt, 2 agm batteries ,and a have 6 2.7 3000farid caps , So with 6 I’m sitting at 500 farid I’m staying around 14volts would adding another 6 benefit me ,it would drop farids to 250 ? Or am I better staying with just the 6 , I’m not planning of really going over 14-14.5 volt system is 5k rms @.5ohm so there is some major draw when it’s really getting down.
you connect the banks parallel, so you would have 1000 farids. in the bak itself you connect the cells in series, thats why voltage increases but the capasity decreases
In vehicle start apps , eg, Batt>UltCaps>Starter>Alt>bck to batt, and say you connect a 2000 W ac inverter @ UCap output, and say you use the inverter with vehicle off and discharge the caps, at what rate will they charge when the alternator is engaged? And does charging at higher amperages decrease efficiency or lifespan of the UCaps? Also, on not totally unrelated sidenote, could one put 3 of those in series in a back pack, with easy access , break away leads, with inline switch, and hook them to e-scooter for a potential NO2 effect? #Data from Goonies
Nice Goonies reference. :) Draining the caps to 0V would be a bad idea, at any time, without a current limiting charger. The ultracaps will look like a dead short if energized after being drained. That said, the 2000W inverter will shut off around 10VDC, so the ultracaps won't be down to 0V, just around 10VDC. You will need a 200A solenoid relay if your intent is to isolate the ultracap bank from the starting battery. When you turn on ignition, the caps will be in parallel with the starting battery and they will find equilibrium fairly quickly. Then you can start the vehicle with no issue. The caps don't really care about charge/discharge cycles since we never fully discharge them. As far as the backpack goes, you can combine any number of caps to create a series string for whatever voltage range desired. As far as a NO2 effect, the addition of a parallel voltage source will allow for additional energy storage, but the moment the caps are paralleled with the scooter battery they will try to equalize, which could result in a short burst of current availability. Any boost felt by the scooter would be short lived. :)
Hey,... that's pretty smart. I wonder if I could use one of those as a regen brake power dump, and then I could use the stored charge as a 10-30 second turbo/boost to get me off the line far quicker. (not to mention at TOP SPEED!) :-)
I've had this question before. The main problem is the operating voltage of E-bikes and electric cars requiring too many in series, it becomes cost prohibitive really quickly.
Time is irrelevant to ultracap usage since they aren't useful by themselves for audio applications. Most are using a 500F bank (six in series) per 1kW and seeing improved voltage stability (myself included) when playing music in a daily build. This setup is useful for 5 minute drives and 15 hours drives. SPL builds used to put whatever they could fit/afford so they aren't a useful reference for most consumers.
Hello, for an electric Hummer H1 do it my self electric conversion, do you think 150kw battery pack plus connect 50kw ultra capacitor pack will be enough, I’m thinking two Tesla plaid motor drives with a total of 1500kw max
It would take a substantial amount of energy but you're likely in the ballpark for sizing. While bulky, the ultracap bank wouldn't add as much weight and would help supplement the batteries.
The NEC classifies low voltage as below 50V, and this application operates at 12VDC, well below the threshold. Some capacitors can store a few thousand volts and are very dangerous!
Please could capacitors damage the alternator after it just crank the engine so of course it well drop below the 13v ? ie: because of highly charging current to recharge it. I have V6 engine and 180A alternator. Sorry for my language
Great video. My mind is wanting to use this in a solar application to extend battery an reduce draw from motors and pumps. Any recommendations or videos to check out? Thanks subscribed
I got mine from decommissioned solar installs. I haven't seen anything on that application since Li-Ion is more cost effective. Even commercial grade UPS can use ultra caps, but usually don't due to cost and runtime. I do know they will help 12V or 24V battery systems for in-rush. My other video includes current draw measurements.
When integrating the cap bank with the vehicle, you provide an initial charge to get the cap bank within a few volts. I use a current limiting battery charger setup to do this. You don't want to connect a bank at 0V to the vehicle due to the low ESR looking like a short circuit and drawing thousands of amps. If you want to use the stock alt/batt to charge the cap bank, you need a resistor or incandescent bulb in series with the positive connection in order to slow current down.
@@jaz97 Not selling any, the banks I have left are stored for future projects or in use. Same principles apply for any capacitor bank - the math varies based on the ratings of the cells and banks. These are 3,000F and 2.7V. Caps come in a variety of sizes and ratings.
@@richardvedvik979 I believe they are the same. The yinlongs and the ones XS Power are using. They come in either 35/40ah 2.3v make charge 2.8. I have a site selling a bank of 35ah 2.3v for $300. U think that's a good deal and could support 2k watts with 150a alt. Thx again
If you could find a 5,000F cap bank rated for 16VDC, that will be much, much larger than a series string of 350F caps (because series caps add as inverses).
Dude, how many topics did you covered....thema was Safety Tips and Tricks, unless you forgot... Looks like you have just started a pilot episode of a tv series about ultracaps dude!
if your using these for solar , do you need a charge controller like you do a battery. i wont be running any long term stuff off of the solar , i only need a few hours (3 at most) at a time but i can't predict exactly how many amps i will need . im basically using it to electrical experiments, instead of using mains power i want to use solar cause i can isolate it from ground a lot easier (so i don't get the mains interference) and it be pretty portable
Could I use the maxwell ultra capacitor for my 12k watt car audio system. My friends say use lithium. Just I cant afford well over a grand for a battery. Just I've never used a ultra capacitor or lithium battery. I'm not rich. I just want to know what's best honestly.
Ultracaps vs. Lithium depends on your goal. Banks of caps will help ride through musical peaks but Lithium will help with SPL overall by stabling voltage over long notes. Remember that ultracaps were used secretly in SPL years before we made them public for all mobile audio enthusiasts. My friends with 12kW systems use 4-6 banks of caps.
I’m Completely Solar Powered I Have A 48 Volt Trace Inverter it’s A SW 4048 115amps Rated 400 Amps Peak Battery Charger 60.0 Amps I Have 8 12volt Deep Cell Battery’s In Siri’s To Make 48 Volt I’d Like To Add A Bank Of Super Capacitors to my battery bank
For those wondering about sizing banks for automotive systems, consider that Joules are Watts x Seconds. While the 500F bank has over 51,000 Joules of energy storage, we are interested in 14.4V - 12V which is only 1,440J or 1,440 Watts for one second. Because we are trying to supplement the battery and alternator, we aren't looking for an ultracap bank to provide long-term power supply but instead provide transient voltage regulation. As such, a 500F bank can regulate about 1kW of actual demand (not amp rated, but actual clamped power). SPL systems will use several banks.
Quite a few to enjoy the benefits. Most SPL competitors in your position would be running between 6 to 10 banks. You can probably find competitors selling their banks (with buss bars). The age of Lithium batteries has shifted the investment effort from AGM Batts + Ultracaps to Lithium-based batteries. While there would still be a benefit with the combo of ultrcaps and Lithium-based batteries, it's usually cost prohibitive.
@@richardvedvik979 right on, I figured with the lithium the benefit would be smaller. So would 2 banks even helpful or for the cost should I just try to increase the size of my Cmax bank?
LTO supercapacitors can be used with lifepo4 battery together ? and do i need like a BMS for thoese supercapacitors or i ca just put them together to get the Voltage i need 12 or 24v? thank you
Agreed that combining ultracaps with LI batteries is a good combo for both speed and capacity. If the battery charge voltage is higher or near the ultracap series voltage rating, they need BMS.
I find a basic VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) works well. I connect the 12v sensor line to the positive on the ultracap bank. I put a large resistor across the VSR isolate terminals - IE between Common and Normally open. I have the resistors on a decent heat sink. On connecting the battery or turning on the isolator I have between the bank and the 12v high current supply the VSR is open so the current is limited and the bank voltage starts to rise. Once it meets the voltage on the 12v feed the contact closes and shorts out the resistor giving direct connection to my audio supply line. I also use a high current relay connected to the accessory switched 12v that closes when the car is in use. I have an override switch SPST that connects the relay to the battery 12v if I want to use my audio system without having the engine running. It is wired as a latching relay that is interrupted by a small relay connected to a car alarm armed output. As soon as I leave and arm the alarm the bank is isolated along with the VSR so it doesn't become a vampire load. I used a two position isolator so in the event of a flat battery I can turn the isolator to the second position and this gives a direct connection back to the cranking battery so I can start the car. I monitor the bank and VSR relays with a nice little digital voltmeter and LED so I can see what is happening. The above setup sounds a bit complex but its actually very simple. A 200A fuse (TD) protects against a nasty short but so far it has worked really well. The bank is almost always fully charged anyway as I have glued a 20w solar panel to the sunroof shade. This is always pulled across and I cant forget as the sunshade when pulled across pushes a microswitch that is connected to one of the alarm trigger zones. The alarm gives a warning chirp if any input is active so I can never forget. With the solar panel across both my batteries stay healthy and on a very sunny day will actually charge both batteries at about 200ma.... !! Just don't forget your Schottky inline blocking diodes and a plain old 1N4001 diode across any relay coils !! Those large relays will hit you like a train with the back EMF when they are disconnected ! I can personally vouch for the punch they can give you. I hope the above gives some idea's or help to someone considering using them. These banks are VERY useful. Please PAY ATTENTION to Richards safety advice. These packs store a huge amount of charge and if your careless they can really bite you ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Great advice and safety video Richard :-) 👍 👍 👍 👍 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@@richardvedvik979 Thanks :-) I like to rely on logic and relays instead of microcontrollers. I love relay logic, I was lucky enough to inspect an early Otis lift with 2 lifts and a dispatcher. Not a CPU in sight. All completely run by relays. Beautiful lace wiring and so well built. It just seemed alive if you know what I mean. You don't see build quality like this today. A great shame in my opinion. I achieved my Bsc in electrical engineering whilst in the Navy, that was the last time I had seen build quality like the lift controllers. That's the beauty of car systems and relay logic. So simple and yet so flexible. I love your video's so far. I hope your channel grows and grows. I will link to you where I can. All the very best to you :-) Stuart.
But sir, if we/ u don't use a voltage limiter (for balancing) while charging aren't we risking overcharging one of those caps in series? I said this because i have some project w/ 6 supercaps (rated in 2.7V 470F) in series, when i connect (in series) them directly w/ wire, one or two cap will always "dangerously" close to 3V when i charge it w/ 12.5v - 12.8v (i was using my spare fully charge lead acid batt) and the location of those "overvolt" caps seem to be random (that eliminate the variance factor in built quality/different ESR of those caps right?), bare in mind that all those caps never runs hot while testing on those test (direct series connection). What i mean by random is it will change places when i do full charge - discharge cycle, not so when i only using it... let say until Vtotal = 6V. using DC fan as load (inductive load, rated @ 12V , 14.13A) btw, now after i buy some those "balancer/limiter pcbs" , now i stumble on yet another balancing dilemma, this time "undervolt" hahaha... as we speak : Vt = ~12.3v , but individual V on those caps as follow : 1.65, 2.07, 2.26, 2.27, 2, 2.07. and those are not random any more, maybe i will try to manually balance those caps and let see if that help or i got variance in built quality afterall :D
Note these are not batteries. These are capacitors which store charge differently. Ultracaps are available in 2.5, 2.7, and 2.85 volts per cell. Ratings vary by model, these are 3,000F. Voltage drops under load so you size voltage based on ending time requirements.
understood, I messed up the editing process for the first clip and did not get the gain set correctly. it's a silly mistake and one that I cannot correct once posted.
Sorry for the delay. The reason for disconnecting the caps is safety for those servicing the car. And I don't pull the caps, just the fuse protecting the caps. Otherwise the positive battery cable is still energized and if someone disconnects the front battery they may think it's ok to let the positive terminal contact metal in the engine bay - if that happens you'll get a few thousand amps in a short circuit spark. It could also allow the car to still start, which could endanger a mechanic.
@@richardvedvik979 soldering aluminium terminals is... ultrasonic or laser and this is out of scope of my possibilities. I have searched through Maxwell and SPS cap and there was nothing mentioned. I will have to resort to screw terminals...
How can I use these to help out a hybrid that uses ni-mh batteries? I'd like range but more importantly I'd like the system to be more capable... It feels like ev mode is rarely on (assuming this is voltage related?)
Great video! Just my two cents - When I work on my vehicle, and my 500k capacitor needs to be topped up, I use a brake light bulb as my current limiter, in place of the in-line fuse. It will glow brightly at first, since the capacitor is mostly a short circuit. But soon the bulb will start to dim down as the capacitor charge increases, soon matching the voltage of the battery. Once the bulb seems to be very dim I remove it and immediately replace with the in-line fuse. This works faster in my opinion than using a higher power resistor. It also gives a visual as to the charge progress.
That makes sense. A filament bulb has a resistance that increases substantially with temperature. So later on when the bulb is dimmer it has a lower resistance than the fixed value resistor would have. So it finishes the job safely and quicker.
BTW, you could measure cold with a multimeter and compare it to the rated values. Eg a 14V, 28W bulb would pass 2 amps in normal use, therefore have a hot resistance of 7 ohms.
Yup, i understand how linear loads, like incandescent bulbs, behave and I considered a time-lapse charging demo but didn't want this video to run long. I can measure current during the process. Thanks for the input!
A rule of thumb for doing ANY recording. USE A GOOD MICROPHONE!! The video was not great, but the audio was barely intelligible... Sort of like talking in a big drum in the next room. Sounded horrible.
Maxwell BCAP3000 shown here or the newer versions by Maxwell or similar are widely available. Even from distributors like DigiKey or Mouser. Unsure what resources you have available for international shipping.
Would this be safe to use in a car with auto start-stop and lots of computerized technology? With city driving and the AC and music cranked that's a lot of starting and stopping while drawing a lot of current. Would this constant charging and discharging of the caps be bad for the car's electronics or the amps? I'm making a build for SQ and have 100w x4 for fronts and 400w x2 for subs. I have a Golf mk7 with Blue Motion tech.
Yes, when placed in-line with the 12V source, the lamp will act like... a lamp... when the cap voltage is low due to the voltage drop across the lamp. As voltage drop across the lamp decreases, the bulb will become dimmer, until the voltage across the lamp is nearly zero and the caps are charged.
very excellent presentation! but the audio needs improvement. but this widens my understanding to ultra capacitors. could be useful as a motorcycle battery alternative but for cars and trucks i dont think my dad agree to replace his batteries. could be useful to jump start a vehicle tho
I totally agree that I need to spend more time on audio if I am going to be in front of the camera and not behind it! These can be a alternative for lightweight applications or racing applications where disconnecting when not in use is acceptable.
Have shown some bunch of Ultra Capacitors in rear side here and there, you haven’t mentioned what for you put them in use, either in place of fossile fuel or just for support of alternater for starting of your vehicle. Pl explain whether, they can be used as fuel supplier in place of DC batteries, ( Lithium Ion Fe). Hope, you explain through your other video. Thanks.
Hi, the installation tips are focused towards the mobile audio community when used in parallel with 12V batteries. In this arrangement, ultracaps can prolong battery life, improve starting current, and reduce voltage sags in dynamic loads.
I have connected 20 Maxwell 2.7V super capacitors in series and I am going to spark, but with each spark the voltage decreases a little from the capacities. The total charger of these 20 capacitors is 55V DC. How should I connect them together that 300 output voltage?
I'm not sure what you mean by "I am going to spark". Please clarify. 2.7V x 20 = 54VDC. I would probably be a bit more conservative with output voltage and charging voltage because my testing (my other video) showed variances in ESR causing a few tenths of a volt drop difference between each cap. I wouldn't charge past 2.5VDC per cell or 50 VDC across all of them. If I wanted 300 VDC, I would be even more conservative with charging and would want 2.3VDC per cell average or 300/2.3 = 131 cells in series.
Any chance of you making a video describing the pros and cons to switching the car battery to an ultracapacitor bank and showing how you would do it and maintain it?
Can I use capacitors as a ev battery supplrment? How would I wire this? Can I regen it using the vehicle controllers regen? How would I wire that? Resistance etc. My EV controller and engine runs of 18~96V, 72V being the "nominal" 0~100A with 260A peaks. For now. The battery (prismatic lithium) is rated for 100A continious discharge. How would/could I implement Capacitors to improve the EV performance and maintain that 72V Volt/100~260Amp discharge rate without draining the battery when climbing hills?
Ultracaps are very expensive in a high voltage applications. While certainly useful, you're looking at at least 36 of the 2.7V ultracaps (or 34 of the 2.85V ultracaps). If you chose to go that route, the set of ultracaps in series would be in parallel with the normal battery system. Ultracaps are good for quick charging and release while batteries are good for long-duration charging and release. Even with the investment, your uphill application is better solved with more battery capacity. You're always welcome to talk with the engineers at Maxwell on your specific application.
The cap bank needs to be of sufficient size to help. Li-Ion batteries are pretty stout and I'm not aware of a need to supplement them with ultracaps. Our ultracap support was mostly for lead acid batteries. But I can say that properly sized ultracap banks will help an alternator with the engine lag.
@@richardvedvik979 I'm pulling 2000 amps at peak with two dedicated 370 alts and 764 amp hours 12volt lithium. Do you think I should worry with Capps at this piont?
@@richardvedvik979 thanks for the advice,4 X15s 4th order on two EMF 12k amps should be stout when I'm done. Was doing 156 on 1 amp running 2 ohms so half power. Very excited to find out if I can break 160
You left out voltage balancing between capacitors. As soon as you connect ultra capacitors in series, they exhibit voltage imbalances across each individual capacitor, where you could easily end up exceeding the 2.7V rating and damage it. I tried connecting them the way you show but had to give up and go for a balancing board, that uses MOSFETs to shunt power and protect each cap from over voltage.
We use incorrect terms when we talk about "balancing" for the protection circuits. A balancing circuit would actively adjust the voltage drop across each to be equal. What I think you and most people arr talking about are protection boards that shut voltage that exceeds 2.7VDC. These circuits won't "balance" voltage across each cell but provide protection of overvoltage due to ESR variances. My more recent video tests voltage variances and I do identify that the cell bank under test would benefit from cell protection. Testing different types of cell protection and maybe looking for some active "balancing" would be a future study.
I do have a question i noticed you do not have the over charging protection buss bars on them is it ok and safe to direct connect them to a power source with out a protection in line. are they fine directly connect via the buss bars and not explode from over charging if it is under the rated voltage? i know as like a battery can explode if over charged i do relies they are completely different but dose over charging equal the same thing. Because i see charge protection buss bars for these things for sale.
Overcharging would require providing voltage across the caps that exceed their rating. In a car with a 14.4VDC output we can safely connect the bank of six with a combined rating of 16.2VDC
Dear friend, Richard, thank you for your attention. In some videos on UA-cam, it is shown that they receive 300 V output from 8 super capacitors, and some videos show tens of thousands of V output and arc from hand-made capacitors. This is what kind of setup with electronic equipment is necessary to receive a high voltage arc. Thanks
Most of the people using kV are using microwave capacitors or other high-voltage capacitors. Then a step-up transformer/circuit is needed to generate kV. It's quite dangerous and best left to people with a good understanding of electronics and electrical safety. The output voltage of the capacitor varies with construction and you can wire capacitors in series to boost output voltage.
Don't be fooled, folks. Those Maxwells are rated with only a two year shelf life. Skelcaps have a 10 year shelf life, AND, these are not replacements for lithiums because they cannot possibly provide as much longevity for energy needs. These are good for impulse power needs, thus paralelled with batteries to prolong battery life, but not the sole source for energy storage. Skelcaps will give you a 10 year shelf life.
Yes, but you would need to keep feeding back into the caps with regeneration through coasting and braking to keep recharging them. And their useful range would be determined by how much regeneration would be had.
I store my 24v 666F array lose in a thin aluminum box, the key is use gasoline to disapate the heat and insulate.. A totally sealed box helps too... Of course I was trying for worlds most expensive non nuclear bomb lol. How are u an ee with out a cc bench supply?
My garage isn't where my electronics bench is. The test bench area isn't as photogenic with layout or lighting orientation and it's below the family room (i.e. noisy). You can see the bench in other videos, which are close-up of the hardware.
watched for the steel tape measure measuring current ! :-)
For my ebike that is.
Thank you for sharing valuable information
Thank you for your very professional presentation.
I noticed you don’t use circuits to balance the capacitors the way they are offered in eBay.
Could you explain the reason for not using them, and when would you use them?
Thanks for the comments. You'll notice in my previous responses I identify that the balancing circuits are definitely required when you operate the capacitors at their rated voltage but in a car with a 14.4VDC alternator output, we aren't near the combined rating of 16.2VDC.
@@richardvedvik979 But without balancing circuit how you prevent that they do not slowly get unbalanced? And when you discharge them how you prevent that you do not end up reverse polariy situation if they are not balanced?
@@TH-wr1dv he can't. That is why balancing needed
@@voidex136 Yep that was my point. It does not matter that total voltage is under combinet rated voltage. Without balancer it is just time bom with longer fuse.
@@TH-wr1dv 1,000,000 cycles a million chances. I worry about airflow bw the amps and the caps. At least the are not being run at deep cycles consistently so they will stay well within operational limits, especially if he regulates the initial charges. I've popped a 100a fuse on a half farad in an initial charge. Many designs are calling for 40a change limits. Once the battery is stiffened as long as he isn't parking lot pimping too much, over straining equipment, or overheating alternator at idle he should be good to go.
This video is superb. Thankyou very much for posting.
Very good! That was one of the best videos explaining this topic
I use 2 banks 500 farads each wire to a bank of 80 ah of LTO lithium - works like charm!!!
I am 3.5 mins into this video and it is a real gem. The only two things are that the audio is not great, but I got used to it. The other is that the white board is too small to be seen. Other than that, I cannot understand why the channel does not have more subscibers. The presenter is excellent!
Future videos will have a larger white board and smaller room to help the audio. Thanks for the input
If you're still around: If you charge a 500F/16.2v super capacitor bank at 2 amps for 1 hour is there a total of 2 amps in the cap? If short circuited would the burst be 2 amps or would it somehow be more that that? I realize it would not be fully charged after 1 hour.
Hi! I am very much around! The short circuit current would be very high, nearly instantaneous. So all of the energy supplied over the hour would be available within a second.
@@richardvedvik979Not sure if wording this correctly. Kind of like my opening line! lol But if i am giving it 2 amps for one hour is there a way of knowing what the total current the cap is holding?
Thanks for making a simple clean detailed video on caps without a bunch of extra garbage. I have a six pack of these set up in my Tundra for my sub amps. Same way no balancing circuits. Charging system has more that sufficient management of the electrical system and maintaining the caps.
thanks for the info, this helps a lot.
please consider a better mic tho, had to crank the volume.
Understood, I can edit audio before posting future videos. Thanks for the feedback.
It can work as a 943 mah (Calculated) battery with unlimited charge cycles as it stores electrical charges in electrical fields,whereas batteries store charges in chemical reactions
Which make you wonder why we continue with batteries at all.
@@jvon3885 capacitors are bulky and expensive so batteries were invented due to their conveiniency
@@UnknownPerson-nl7te I see guys replacing car batteries all the time with capacitors. And they weigh in at 1/4 the weight of a car battery. I think it's time to get away from batteries all together. Imho
@@jvon3885 a car battery is capable of cranking a car many times whereas a capacitors bank at most 2-3 times,and cannot power car electronics for high time,whereas car battery can power car electronics for a high amount of time,so capacitors are not a very good option to continue with
Thansk for this great explaination. I hv a question, do i need to put 2 fuses before and after the capacitor
I fuse on the input to the capacitor bank (before) with a MAXI fuse (a circuit breaker would also work) in order to isolate the cap bank from the car when disconnecting the battery. Treat these like batteries as it relates to fusing. I also fuse after the cap bank, sized for the wire, in order to limit fault energy. So , yes, two fuses.
Hi I'm trying to charge an ultracapacitor Bank. I got the Deadshot on the multimeter and blew my 50 amp fuse. When you said I could use a current limiting charger, couldn't I just use a 12 vdc wall charger with like 300 milliamp output?
Hi there. The wall transformers or wall power supplies are generally not current limiting, they would likey fail and/or catch fire quickly.
Many car battery chargers are current limiting, and you could use the 2A or 10A setting.
@@richardvedvik979 Thank you! Once the capacitor is fully charged do I ever have to worry about it going to a short again? At which point (or should I say voltage) does the short come into play? Or the excessive current draw. I'm using this for car audio and the max voltage of the bank is 16 volts.
Thanks so much for the info man!! Quick question, would I be able to charge a bank of 6 3v cells with a 6s rc batt charger? The bank has balancing boards too
sorry for the delay. Charging the bank requires a source with current limiting and an output voltage set for the desired bank voltage. The benefit of capacitor banks is that they can meet whatever voltage you desire (within range). They are not limited to the design voltage of a battery.
I have a 350 amp alternator that puts out 15 volts cold then when hot its 14.5 volts. Can I use the 2.7 volt 3000 farad caps on my electrical. I need enough to power my Taramps md8000.1 amplifier.
Also can I run them with my two 12 volt lead acid batteries? All of my power wire is 4/0.
Hey buddy, my 2021 Zero Sr electric motorcycle has a 14.4 kw battery pack, how many volts of super capacitor batteries as a battery pack do I need so it’s safe
Good lecture. Thank you.
I have a 72v Gem car and want to increase the length of charge /discharge (run time) on the vehicle now it has 6 lead acid 12v batteries and I am making a 12v supplemental 6 panel solar array to charge during the daytime hours. what type of system do you recommend to supplement with?
So how many volts of super capacitor batteries as a battery pack is ok to add to the bike
Thank you for your previous answer. Is there a way of knowing how much current the cap's can handle for a quick discharge? It seems to me that speakers require an inordinate amount of power to do their thing! Fortunately my purpose is for an e-bike 30aH battery pack.1000 watt bub motor. Not powerful magnets!
What a video. BRAVO!!!!
Great video!
Are xs power super capacitors any good or are they garbage?
They are fine. There are a few manufacturers that also allow for private label.
Can you charge and discharge ultracapacitors simultaneously. For example you use your phone whilst it is plugged in charging?
Absolutely, that is how capacitors are routinely used. They both match input voltage and resist change in output voltage.
awesome video I have a Honda with a 250 amp alt a group 31 xs power in front with a group 41 in the rear. My stereo when I use it pulls about 150 amps at max my car like 45 amps with ac on etc. I also have air suspention that uses a air zenith ob2 compressor that pulls like 60 amp when filling the tank. That takes about 4-5 min it starts out fast then my volts drop slightly and it takes longer to fill. Sorry for the long would I benefit from using like a xs power super cap bank? thanks
Nop .. if IT do not drop in rpm when car is running Then IT is you bat bank ITs too small
If IT drops when you enigen andcthe 250A alternators runs
ITs you leads from bat to compresser ther is too thin and looong
You can ofcorse make What you want .. but if leads are insufisiant .. or battery til small .. well Cape get topped off by bat .. if bat drops well Cape Will too.. resistance in too thin leads kill A in to heat in wired instead
Great Video ! Super informative.
Even though I want to build one, It is super expensive here in the Philippines.
If I hooked a 50 fared capacitor to a 100ah lifepo4 battery with a 100amp bms would it overload it charging the capacitor if the capacitor was empty when hooked up?
You'll notice that some of the "stiffening capacitors" for car audio use have either external or internal charging and discharging circuits. Each product should have some manufacturer instructions that explain that procedure. Without knowing the exact make/model you have, I would use an incandescent dome light in series with the power feed to slow the initial charge current.
@@richardvedvik979 great idea thx
I keep blowing a 500 amp amp fuse with my uSTART ultra cap would you ever condone not fusing that outflow wire from the ultra cap? It’s a 1/0 wire the uSTART is a cheap ultra cap that has been recalled previously for having the cells inside the ultra cap get shorted out? But watching this video if they are all in parallel like the box shape looks or the 6 pack how could they ever short out it would always be short if the entire ultra capacitor cell is conductive unless I misheard you and you meant the buss bar terminal posts coming from the top? Or just every part of the cell is conductive? Or do I just have to much current draw is there a way to limit that current draw per amplifier? If I connected separate wires it would all lead back that one initial inrush wire anyway right? Let me know your thoughts thank you!
I'm interested in using them primarily in Solar set ups ,I was looking for a video that explains what, an ultra-capacitor is and how to implement them safely. (for a mate who wants to power his off grid house with solar, when he moves to Spain). yea very informative , concise and well made video. good work. thanks.
Ps first discovered ultra caps on a video about building a stun gun! it was literally lethal , so safety with these bad boys is a must
Feel free to ask any other questions. I'll have a video on balancing circuits when some parts arrive.
These would only really provide a benefit when using a quick burst of power. You may be better off actually taking what money would be invested in capacitors and putting that into the battery system.
If you could provide some more details on the power consumers your friend will be using I could give you a couple of more recommendations. : )
@@realhusky Oddly enough, I bought my banks off of a seller that was disassembling solar energy storage banks. Mine were used in solar applications. I agree, it seems like the wrong product for the application.
We're seeing sodium ion energy storage as being an option for future utility-grade energy storage.
Richard Vedvik hi
I didn't hear him talk about the accessory kit for Maxwells that ensure the caps remain balanced when charging. If one take more charge than the others, and they therefore are imbalanced, you will potentially destroy the one that's imbalanced.
did you read his notes on balancing? He explained why he is not using balancing circuits.
Why aren't you using balancing circuit boards between the caps so each Cap gets an equal charge voltage? Also, what is the current leak over time? I heard you say after several months they were at 10 volts so what was the starting charge voltage?
So, I could buy 1 500 capacitor, or I could buy 6 (@3x$ of the one), for 500?🤔🤥👎😂
Good job on video, thank god u didn't put me to sleep like the other people who over explain with un necessary Junk ! You kept me awake and interested and u taught this old dawg some actual useful information !
Thank you!
The pics at the end aren't final products, but are intended to show some of the ways I have mounted and fused ultracapacitor banks.
I’ve had a bank of six of these maxwells with balancing boards in the soda can configuration since December(so almost 6 months now) but I’ve been kinda scared to actually install them. I’m going to see if I can rearrange them to be inline and mount them on top of the trunk like your last picture! I noticed you have some sort of carpet on top of them in some of the pictures. Is that just speaker box carpet?
If I were trying to use these to charge an electric scooter that says DC 12V next to the charger port, how would I do so? I need a vid that's quick but easy 😂. I'm not good with long explanations and such. Thanks for the help if you reply
@@dragonscargames4808 Using supercaps to charge batteries is not very productive because the capacitors will likely store less energy than the batteries overall. The only reason to use these instead of batteries is because they can release their stored energy almost instantly, vs batteries which hold much more but can't release it as quick.
what kind of capret tape is that?
@@greasemunkeyyy can you expand on capret tape? the Mastic?
Very well explained! Thank you!
Thx...google around to learn...the best, concisely explain...(ok, your audio is a bit garage style, but forgiven 😊
Caling the seperator or insulator film for dielectric
Dielectric is the insulating capasety of the materiale ..
what find totally amazing about maxwell UC's is 5+ years ago the market was so saturated with both new and used surplus UC's that the manufacturers had quit producing new units and is was not uncommon to see them selling for $10 a piece or sometimes even less then one guy starts posting youtube videos showing how he was able to successfully replace his car's battery with ultracaps and within a year the market went from massive surplus to critical shortage causing the prices to increase to the point where at times I've seen used ones selling for as much as $100 each and even now the premade ultracap poser banks are selling for as high as $800 each. I always think of the ultracap situation whenever I hear someone say that one person by themselves can't effect change or make a difference......
That's how demand can drive and change. :)
hi richard.i have a question..lets say that i have 6 cells of 2.7v = 16.2v and i dont use a balancing circuit. if the alternator broke and start sent 17v+ what will happen to the cells? will do explode or something?
Capacitors fail in a couple of ways, but I haven't personally seen an ultracap failure from overvoltage. From those that have, it's just a venting of electrolyte, nothing violent. the end result is a damaged cell and an open circuit (not a cascading fault).
In college we used to blow up small caps with overvoltage and as the cap size increased, the excitement decreased. The larger caps just discharged their electrolytic fluid and smoked.
Ive wondered that with an ultracap's extremely low esr, and extremely high capacitance, i wonder how theyll act when used in band pass filters..? Seems like theyd totally eliminate designated frequencies and not put any back emf or noise into the audio signal.. and with duty cycles so high theyd last forever in those situations. You wouldnt need to have the huge deals you had here but never heard of anybody using em in those circuits.. or maybe i just havent seen that yet and is already a thing..
Interesting idea. I haven't seen anyone try to use this type of capacitor in an audio filter either.
You can charge it by a DC welder
This is correct. Thanks!
I see people putting them under the hood. Is this viable, or should they be mounted close to the amplifier(s)?
What would you recommend I have a 370amp alt, 2 agm batteries ,and a have 6 2.7 3000farid caps , So with 6 I’m sitting at 500 farid I’m staying around 14volts would adding another 6 benefit me ,it would drop farids to 250 ? Or am I better staying with just the 6 , I’m not planning of really going over 14-14.5 volt system is 5k rms @.5ohm so there is some major draw when it’s really getting down.
you connect the banks parallel, so you would have 1000 farids. in the bak itself you connect the cells in series, thats why voltage increases but the capasity decreases
In vehicle start apps , eg,
Batt>UltCaps>Starter>Alt>bck to batt, and say you connect a 2000 W ac inverter @ UCap output, and say you use the inverter with vehicle off and discharge the caps, at what rate will they charge when the alternator is engaged? And does charging at higher amperages decrease efficiency or lifespan of the UCaps? Also, on not totally unrelated sidenote, could one put 3 of those in series in a back pack, with easy access , break away leads, with inline switch, and hook them to e-scooter for a potential NO2 effect? #Data from Goonies
Nice Goonies reference. :) Draining the caps to 0V would be a bad idea, at any time, without a current limiting charger. The ultracaps will look like a dead short if energized after being drained. That said, the 2000W inverter will shut off around 10VDC, so the ultracaps won't be down to 0V, just around 10VDC. You will need a 200A solenoid relay if your intent is to isolate the ultracap bank from the starting battery. When you turn on ignition, the caps will be in parallel with the starting battery and they will find equilibrium fairly quickly. Then you can start the vehicle with no issue. The caps don't really care about charge/discharge cycles since we never fully discharge them.
As far as the backpack goes, you can combine any number of caps to create a series string for whatever voltage range desired. As far as a NO2 effect, the addition of a parallel voltage source will allow for additional energy storage, but the moment the caps are paralleled with the scooter battery they will try to equalize, which could result in a short burst of current availability. Any boost felt by the scooter would be short lived. :)
👨💻🤷♂️👉🕺😲 10% more knowledge about stuff i don't do :) 😲😁🍻 🐨🎙oi! - enuff power to do small welding etc ?
Hey,... that's pretty smart. I wonder if I could use one of those as a regen brake power dump, and then I could use the stored charge as a 10-30 second turbo/boost to get me off the line far quicker. (not to mention at TOP SPEED!) :-)
I've had this question before. The main problem is the operating voltage of E-bikes and electric cars requiring too many in series, it becomes cost prohibitive really quickly.
What would be a good ratio of farads per 1k rms to run on music for long periods of time with proper charging and batteries already in place
Time is irrelevant to ultracap usage since they aren't useful by themselves for audio applications. Most are using a 500F bank (six in series) per 1kW and seeing improved voltage stability (myself included) when playing music in a daily build. This setup is useful for 5 minute drives and 15 hours drives. SPL builds used to put whatever they could fit/afford so they aren't a useful reference for most consumers.
Hello, for an electric Hummer H1 do it my self electric conversion, do you think 150kw battery pack plus connect 50kw ultra capacitor pack will be enough, I’m thinking two Tesla plaid motor drives with a total of 1500kw max
It would take a substantial amount of energy but you're likely in the ballpark for sizing. While bulky, the ultracap bank wouldn't add as much weight and would help supplement the batteries.
High VOLTAGE...you will get jolt by touching positive and negative my elbow touch both i felt a GUD ONE..DISCHARGED sound like gunshot...
The NEC classifies low voltage as below 50V, and this application operates at 12VDC, well below the threshold. Some capacitors can store a few thousand volts and are very dangerous!
Please could capacitors damage the alternator after it just crank the engine so of course it well drop below the 13v ? ie: because of highly charging current to recharge it. I have V6 engine and 180A alternator.
Sorry for my language
Great video. My mind is wanting to use this in a solar application to extend battery an reduce draw from motors and pumps. Any recommendations or videos to check out? Thanks subscribed
I got mine from decommissioned solar installs. I haven't seen anything on that application since Li-Ion is more cost effective. Even commercial grade UPS can use ultra caps, but usually don't due to cost and runtime.
I do know they will help 12V or 24V battery systems for in-rush. My other video includes current draw measurements.
Old video but you still around to answer questions on these? To use with stock battery/alt do you charge these to resting battery voltage?
When integrating the cap bank with the vehicle, you provide an initial charge to get the cap bank within a few volts. I use a current limiting battery charger setup to do this. You don't want to connect a bank at 0V to the vehicle due to the low ESR looking like a short circuit and drawing thousands of amps. If you want to use the stock alt/batt to charge the cap bank, you need a resistor or incandescent bulb in series with the positive connection in order to slow current down.
@@richardvedvik979 Are you currently selling any? Have you played with the Yinlong caps? Would same principle apply?
@@jaz97 Not selling any, the banks I have left are stored for future projects or in use. Same principles apply for any capacitor bank - the math varies based on the ratings of the cells and banks. These are 3,000F and 2.7V. Caps come in a variety of sizes and ratings.
@@richardvedvik979 I believe they are the same. The yinlongs and the ones XS Power are using. They come in either 35/40ah 2.3v make charge 2.8. I have a site selling a bank of 35ah 2.3v for $300. U think that's a good deal and could support 2k watts with 150a alt. Thx again
@@jaz97 is that a bank of seven cells in series? Any over voltage protection if the voltage across each cell varies?
But if you're fuse for 300a on a power wire, a maxifuse won't go that high. So basically just fuse along according to the wire/load?
Yes, you can adjust the fuse size accordingly. A high amperage circuit breaker or solenoid could also be used and would allow for a quick disconnect.
HOW ABOUT 420V 5600 uF FOUR SERIES 1680V 5600uF .420v 224000uF.
What would be better for going around and starting my yard tractors, 6 2.7v 350f in series or 1 or 2 16v 5000f in parallel?
If you could find a 5,000F cap bank rated for 16VDC, that will be much, much larger than a series string of 350F caps (because series caps add as inverses).
Dude, how many topics did you covered....thema was Safety Tips and Tricks, unless you forgot... Looks like you have just started a pilot episode of a tv series about ultracaps dude!
if your using these for solar , do you need a charge controller like you do a battery.
i wont be running any long term stuff off of the solar , i only need a few hours (3 at most) at a time but i can't predict exactly how many amps i will need .
im basically using it to electrical experiments,
instead of using mains power i want to use solar cause i can isolate it from ground a lot easier (so i don't get the mains interference) and it be pretty portable
You always need a charge controller, or at least a voltage regulator to prevent over-voltage for each cell and the bank as a whole.
Could I use the maxwell ultra capacitor for my 12k watt car audio system. My friends say use lithium. Just I cant afford well over a grand for a battery. Just I've never used a ultra capacitor or lithium battery. I'm not rich. I just want to know what's best honestly.
Ultracaps vs. Lithium depends on your goal. Banks of caps will help ride through musical peaks but Lithium will help with SPL overall by stabling voltage over long notes. Remember that ultracaps were used secretly in SPL years before we made them public for all mobile audio enthusiasts. My friends with 12kW systems use 4-6 banks of caps.
I’m Completely Solar Powered I Have A 48 Volt Trace Inverter it’s A SW 4048 115amps Rated 400 Amps Peak Battery Charger 60.0 Amps I Have 8 12volt Deep Cell Battery’s In Siri’s To Make 48 Volt I’d Like To Add A Bank Of Super Capacitors to my battery bank
WHAT KIND OF CRANKING TIME CAN YOU GET. WILL THEY WORK ON A V8 DIESEL
Good question. I can experiment with this soon by disconnecting my main battery and cranking on just my caps. Soon.
For those wondering about sizing banks for automotive systems, consider that Joules are Watts x Seconds. While the 500F bank has over 51,000 Joules of energy storage, we are interested in 14.4V - 12V which is only 1,440J or 1,440 Watts for one second. Because we are trying to supplement the battery and alternator, we aren't looking for an ultracap bank to provide long-term power supply but instead provide transient voltage regulation. As such, a 500F bank can regulate about 1kW of actual demand (not amp rated, but actual clamped power). SPL systems will use several banks.
Ok so say I compete, I have 300a alt, 90ah Cmax lifipo battery, 2x 6-7000w amps. What would I need farad wise to support my system with Ultra caps
Quite a few to enjoy the benefits. Most SPL competitors in your position would be running between 6 to 10 banks. You can probably find competitors selling their banks (with buss bars). The age of Lithium batteries has shifted the investment effort from AGM Batts + Ultracaps to Lithium-based batteries. While there would still be a benefit with the combo of ultrcaps and Lithium-based batteries, it's usually cost prohibitive.
@@richardvedvik979 right on, I figured with the lithium the benefit would be smaller. So would 2 banks even helpful or for the cost should I just try to increase the size of my Cmax bank?
LTO supercapacitors can be used with lifepo4 battery together ? and do i need like a BMS for thoese supercapacitors or i ca just put them together to get the Voltage i need 12 or 24v? thank you
Agreed that combining ultracaps with LI batteries is a good combo for both speed and capacity. If the battery charge voltage is higher or near the ultracap series voltage rating, they need BMS.
Yeah, you're an audio guy--flubbed up and said Hybrid Audio! lol Team Hybrids here!! Thanks for the info!
I find a basic VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) works well. I connect the 12v sensor line to the positive on the ultracap bank. I put a large resistor across the VSR isolate terminals - IE between Common and Normally open. I have the resistors on a decent heat sink.
On connecting the battery or turning on the isolator I have between the bank and the 12v high current supply the VSR is open so the current is limited and the bank voltage starts to rise. Once it meets the voltage on the 12v feed the contact closes and shorts out the resistor giving direct connection to my audio supply line.
I also use a high current relay connected to the accessory switched 12v that closes when the car is in use. I have an override switch SPST that connects the relay to the battery 12v if I want to use my audio system without having the engine running. It is wired as a latching relay that is interrupted by a small relay connected to a car alarm armed output.
As soon as I leave and arm the alarm the bank is isolated along with the VSR so it doesn't become a vampire load. I used a two position isolator so in the event of a flat battery I can turn the isolator to the second position and this gives a direct connection back to the cranking battery so I can start the car. I monitor the bank and VSR relays with a nice little digital voltmeter and LED so I can see what is happening.
The above setup sounds a bit complex but its actually very simple. A 200A fuse (TD) protects against a nasty short but so far it has worked really well. The bank is almost always fully charged anyway as I have glued a 20w solar panel to the sunroof shade. This is always pulled across and I cant forget as the sunshade when pulled across pushes a microswitch that is connected to one of the alarm trigger zones. The alarm gives a warning chirp if any input is active so I can never forget. With the solar panel across both my batteries stay healthy and on a very sunny day will actually charge both batteries at about 200ma.... !! Just don't forget your Schottky inline blocking diodes and a plain old 1N4001 diode across any relay coils !! Those large relays will hit you like a train with the back EMF when they are disconnected ! I can personally vouch for the punch they can give you.
I hope the above gives some idea's or help to someone considering using them. These banks are VERY useful. Please PAY ATTENTION to Richards safety advice. These packs store a huge amount of charge and if your careless they can really bite you !
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Great advice and safety video Richard :-) 👍 👍 👍 👍
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Love the setup! I understood and agree, the beauty is in the simplicity. Nicely done!
@@richardvedvik979 Thanks :-) I like to rely on logic and relays instead of microcontrollers. I love relay logic, I was lucky enough to inspect an early Otis lift with 2 lifts and a dispatcher. Not a CPU in sight. All completely run by relays. Beautiful lace wiring and so well built. It just seemed alive if you know what I mean.
You don't see build quality like this today. A great shame in my opinion. I achieved my Bsc in electrical engineering whilst in the Navy, that was the last time I had seen build quality like the lift controllers. That's the beauty of car systems and relay logic. So simple and yet so flexible.
I love your video's so far. I hope your channel grows and grows. I will link to you where I can. All the very best to you :-)
Stuart.
But sir, if we/ u don't use a voltage limiter (for balancing) while charging aren't we risking overcharging one of those caps in series?
I said this because i have some project w/ 6 supercaps (rated in 2.7V 470F) in series, when i connect (in series) them directly w/ wire, one or two cap will always "dangerously" close to 3V when i charge it w/ 12.5v - 12.8v (i was using my spare fully charge lead acid batt)
and the location of those "overvolt" caps seem to be random (that eliminate the variance factor in built quality/different ESR of those caps right?), bare in mind that all those caps never runs hot while testing on those test (direct series connection).
What i mean by random is it will change places when i do full charge - discharge cycle, not so when i only using it... let say until Vtotal = 6V. using DC fan as load (inductive load, rated @ 12V , 14.13A)
btw, now after i buy some those "balancer/limiter pcbs" , now i stumble on yet another balancing dilemma, this time "undervolt" hahaha...
as we speak : Vt = ~12.3v , but individual V on those caps as follow : 1.65, 2.07, 2.26, 2.27, 2, 2.07. and those are not random any more, maybe i will try to manually balance those caps and let see if that help or i got variance in built quality afterall :D
What is each battery volts and AMPs, how many battery required for 48v, 40ah ??
Note these are not batteries. These are capacitors which store charge differently. Ultracaps are available in 2.5, 2.7, and 2.85 volts per cell. Ratings vary by model, these are 3,000F. Voltage drops under load so you size voltage based on ending time requirements.
Your Explanation is great ,,but the Microphone is located it in the wrong location and is very hard ,,to lListing ,,
understood, I messed up the editing process for the first clip and did not get the gain set correctly. it's a silly mistake and one that I cannot correct once posted.
Sorry but why would you pull the caps out before a car service? I didn’t understand why
Sorry for the delay. The reason for disconnecting the caps is safety for those servicing the car. And I don't pull the caps, just the fuse protecting the caps. Otherwise the positive battery cable is still energized and if someone disconnects the front battery they may think it's ok to let the positive terminal contact metal in the engine bay - if that happens you'll get a few thousand amps in a short circuit spark. It could also allow the car to still start, which could endanger a mechanic.
Does anybody know how to connect up those with flat terminals? they look the same, except they dont have the screw threaded terminal.
Those are made to be permanent installs in equipment. Either soldered or pressure fit. You can download the manual for instructions.
@@richardvedvik979 soldering aluminium terminals is... ultrasonic or laser and this is out of scope of my possibilities. I have searched through Maxwell and SPS cap and there was nothing mentioned. I will have to resort to screw terminals...
How can I use these to help out a hybrid that uses ni-mh batteries? I'd like range but more importantly I'd like the system to be more capable... It feels like ev mode is rarely on (assuming this is voltage related?)
It's fairly expensive to get up to the voltage of the eV battery pack. That is the biggest limitation.
The controller on the bike is 750amp
8 month and drop from 12V to 10V??? No way...they should be near 0V
That is the beauty of low ESR.
Great video! Just my two cents - When I work on my vehicle, and my 500k capacitor needs to be topped up, I use a brake light bulb as my current limiter, in place of the in-line fuse. It will glow brightly at first, since the capacitor is mostly a short circuit. But soon the bulb will start to dim down as the capacitor charge increases, soon matching the voltage of the battery. Once the bulb seems to be very dim I remove it and immediately replace with the in-line fuse. This works faster in my opinion than using a higher power resistor. It also gives a visual as to the charge progress.
I will demonstrate the light bulb charge method in my next video as well. Thanks for sharing.
That makes sense. A filament bulb has a resistance that increases substantially with temperature. So later on when the bulb is dimmer it has a lower resistance than the fixed value resistor would have. So it finishes the job safely and quicker.
BTW, you could measure cold with a multimeter and compare it to the rated values. Eg a 14V, 28W bulb would pass 2 amps in normal use, therefore have a hot resistance of 7 ohms.
Yup, i understand how linear loads, like incandescent bulbs, behave and I considered a time-lapse charging demo but didn't want this video to run long. I can measure current during the process. Thanks for the input!
@@richardvedvik979 and thank you for the video! Looking forward to more.
Most informative and helpful tutorial on Super Capacitors these thing are gong to change the way we live.
I didn't see any other videos in your lineup that showed this in use in your vehicles, do you not use it?
I showcased photos of them installed in my vehicles at the end of the video.
A rules of thumb for video recording, never face direct sunlight...help in video quality.
A rule of thumb for doing ANY recording. USE A GOOD MICROPHONE!! The video was not great, but the audio was barely intelligible... Sort of like talking in a big drum in the next room. Sounded horrible.
Agree on the sound quality, very hard to HEAR what he says.
Where can I buy these ultra capacitors. I cant find here in the Philippines.
Maxwell BCAP3000 shown here or the newer versions by Maxwell or similar are widely available. Even from distributors like DigiKey or Mouser. Unsure what resources you have available for international shipping.
Would this be safe to use in a car with auto start-stop and lots of computerized technology? With city driving and the AC and music cranked that's a lot of starting and stopping while drawing a lot of current. Would this constant charging and discharging of the caps be bad for the car's electronics or the amps? I'm making a build for SQ and have 100w x4 for fronts and 400w x2 for subs. I have a Golf mk7 with Blue Motion tech.
Can I use a 12 volt halogen light bulb as a resistor to charge super caps?
Yes, when placed in-line with the 12V source, the lamp will act like... a lamp... when the cap voltage is low due to the voltage drop across the lamp. As voltage drop across the lamp decreases, the bulb will become dimmer, until the voltage across the lamp is nearly zero and the caps are charged.
The bikes battery pack is a 14.4 kw
very excellent presentation! but the audio needs improvement. but this widens my understanding to ultra capacitors. could be useful as a motorcycle battery alternative but for cars and trucks i dont think my dad agree to replace his batteries. could be useful to jump start a vehicle tho
I totally agree that I need to spend more time on audio if I am going to be in front of the camera and not behind it! These can be a alternative for lightweight applications or racing applications where disconnecting when not in use is acceptable.
Nice
〈超級电容自放电很快要小心电池會沒電〉
超級电容雖电力很強,相對的它充放電很耗電,都是十幾~上百幾的大电流,比較不利於對电池的跨接充放电,反而會加據耗損电池,也對充电机照成大負擔。
所以若要电池對接超級电容,應要選小w數(F)比較好的,這要先計算好!不可以為(F)越大就是好
〈超級电容充滿电压是3v多一點自放电變很穩不會那麼快,电容還是好好的,不要超過3.2v會溫要小心!我側試過〉
I like your tshirt
Have shown some bunch of Ultra Capacitors in rear side here and there, you haven’t mentioned what for you put them in use, either in place of fossile fuel or just for support of alternater for starting of your vehicle. Pl explain whether, they can be used as fuel supplier in place of DC batteries, ( Lithium Ion Fe). Hope, you explain through your other video. Thanks.
Hi, the installation tips are focused towards the mobile audio community when used in parallel with 12V batteries. In this arrangement, ultracaps can prolong battery life, improve starting current, and reduce voltage sags in dynamic loads.
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge. Bye Mr Richard.
I have connected 20 Maxwell 2.7V super capacitors in series and I am going to spark, but with each spark the voltage decreases a little from the capacities. The total charger of these 20 capacitors is 55V DC. How should I connect them together that 300 output voltage?
I'm not sure what you mean by "I am going to spark". Please clarify. 2.7V x 20 = 54VDC. I would probably be a bit more conservative with output voltage and charging voltage because my testing (my other video) showed variances in ESR causing a few tenths of a volt drop difference between each cap. I wouldn't charge past 2.5VDC per cell or 50 VDC across all of them. If I wanted 300 VDC, I would be even more conservative with charging and would want 2.3VDC per cell average or 300/2.3 = 131 cells in series.
Great video!!!!!
Any chance of you making a video describing the pros and cons to switching the car battery to an ultracapacitor bank and showing how you would do it and maintain it?
Very informative video! Thanks.
I how can i have the capacitor
Can I use capacitors as a ev battery supplrment? How would I wire this? Can I regen it using the vehicle controllers regen? How would I wire that? Resistance etc. My EV controller and engine runs of 18~96V, 72V being the "nominal" 0~100A with 260A peaks. For now. The battery (prismatic lithium) is rated for 100A continious discharge. How would/could I implement Capacitors to improve the EV performance and maintain that 72V Volt/100~260Amp discharge rate without draining the battery when climbing hills?
Ultracaps are very expensive in a high voltage applications. While certainly useful, you're looking at at least 36 of the 2.7V ultracaps (or 34 of the 2.85V ultracaps). If you chose to go that route, the set of ultracaps in series would be in parallel with the normal battery system. Ultracaps are good for quick charging and release while batteries are good for long-duration charging and release. Even with the investment, your uphill application is better solved with more battery capacity. You're always welcome to talk with the engineers at Maxwell on your specific application.
Hi ,any idea where I source these used ultracaps please ?
I've seen them on FB audio groups more often than eBay or forums lately.
Would capacitor help with 3000amp max draw running on 500ah of lithium on two 370amp alts? Roughly 30000 watts rms....
The cap bank needs to be of sufficient size to help. Li-Ion batteries are pretty stout and I'm not aware of a need to supplement them with ultracaps. Our ultracap support was mostly for lead acid batteries. But I can say that properly sized ultracap banks will help an alternator with the engine lag.
@@richardvedvik979 I'm pulling 2000 amps at peak with two dedicated 370 alts and 764 amp hours 12volt lithium. Do you think I should worry with Capps at this piont?
@@moabs10blowthru41 No, the cap bank you would need to see any benefit wouldn't provide much added value. Love me a blowthru in a pickup!
@@richardvedvik979 thanks for the advice,4 X15s 4th order on two EMF 12k amps should be stout when I'm done. Was doing 156 on 1 amp running 2 ohms so half power. Very excited to find out if I can break 160
You left out voltage balancing between capacitors. As soon as you connect ultra capacitors in series, they exhibit voltage imbalances across each individual capacitor, where you could easily end up exceeding the 2.7V rating and damage it. I tried connecting them the way you show but had to give up and go for a balancing board, that uses MOSFETs to shunt power and protect each cap from over voltage.
We use incorrect terms when we talk about "balancing" for the protection circuits. A balancing circuit would actively adjust the voltage drop across each to be equal. What I think you and most people arr talking about are protection boards that shut voltage that exceeds 2.7VDC. These circuits won't "balance" voltage across each cell but provide protection of overvoltage due to ESR variances. My more recent video tests voltage variances and I do identify that the cell bank under test would benefit from cell protection. Testing different types of cell protection and maybe looking for some active "balancing" would be a future study.
I do have a question i noticed you do not have the over charging protection buss bars on them is it ok and safe to direct connect them to a power source with out a protection in line. are they fine directly connect via the buss bars and not explode from over charging if it is under the rated voltage? i know as like a battery can explode if over charged i do relies they are completely different but dose over charging equal the same thing. Because i see charge protection buss bars for these things for sale.
Overcharging would require providing voltage across the caps that exceed their rating. In a car with a 14.4VDC output we can safely connect the bank of six with a combined rating of 16.2VDC
Dear friend, Richard, thank you for your attention. In some videos on UA-cam, it is shown that they receive 300 V output from 8 super capacitors, and some videos show tens of thousands of V output and arc from hand-made capacitors. This is what kind of setup with electronic equipment is necessary to receive a high voltage arc. Thanks
Most of the people using kV are using microwave capacitors or other high-voltage capacitors. Then a step-up transformer/circuit is needed to generate kV. It's quite dangerous and best left to people with a good understanding of electronics and electrical safety. The output voltage of the capacitor varies with construction and you can wire capacitors in series to boost output voltage.
Don't be fooled, folks. Those Maxwells are rated with only a two year shelf life. Skelcaps have a 10 year shelf life, AND, these are not replacements for lithiums because they cannot possibly provide as much longevity for energy needs. These are good for impulse power needs, thus paralelled with batteries to prolong battery life, but not the sole source for energy storage. Skelcaps will give you a 10 year shelf life.
I have checked SkelCap datasheet, but the lifetime is the same, 1500 Hours, or 1 million cicles…
Is it possible to power a e bike with just capacitors.
Yes, but you would need to keep feeding back into the caps with regeneration through coasting and braking to keep recharging them. And their useful range would be determined by how much regeneration would be had.
I store my 24v 666F array lose in a thin aluminum box, the key is use gasoline to disapate the heat and insulate.. A totally sealed box helps too... Of course I was trying for worlds most expensive non nuclear bomb lol. How are u an ee with out a cc bench supply?
My garage isn't where my electronics bench is. The test bench area isn't as photogenic with layout or lighting orientation and it's below the family room (i.e. noisy). You can see the bench in other videos, which are close-up of the hardware.