The Problem With Electric Guitar Chords
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
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Never expected to hear Mass Of The Fermenting Dregs here haha
same thing lmao
Don’t get why everyone is disagreeing with you on this. Full chords don’t sound good on an electric guitar in the context of a band. It’s so much sonic information, it’s going to step on somebody
I think some of it is a difference of opinion as to what a "high gain" tone qualifies as. Given that a few people have used ACDC as an example already, that's definitely not what I was referring to. That's a very mild, crunchy sound, at least to me.
Also there seemed to be some confusion based on my wording, with some people thinking I meant muddy when I was talking about the opposite - that shrill / harsh sound you often get. So it's probably a mixture of my poor wording choice and just the unpredictable way people can misinterpret what's being said, haha.
I'm also aware that these videos reach more of a general musician audience, whereas I'm approaching these more from a production / mixing perspective, so it's a bit of that clashing too. Though that's cool really, because the idea behind these videos is to (hopefully) bridge that gap a little.
@@SugarpillProd Yeah, I’m a big Thin Lizzie fan and like that classic edge of breakup kind of overdrive they had, and you can do full chords with that. But I’m sure what you’re talking about is modern distortion which is way different lol. Also I feel like if you put that old sound on a record today, the kids would be like, “this sucks” lol
@@Augrills Most likely 🤣 But yeah, that's exactly right! You can't really compare records that came out in the 70s to ones today, because production has changed so much since. It's kinda wild that high gain might mean ACDC to one person and Knocked Loose to another, haha.
I quite like the sound of open chords. If it’s a bit muddy, I double it with a clean guitar lower in the mix and the voicings pop a bit more.
I think my wording was maybe not the best when I said "hazy". I was more referring to the chords sounding harsh / brittle when played through high gain amps, not muddy. Regardless, augmenting with a clean or acoustic guitar is always a good shout for that!
@@SugarpillProd Especially when you’re lazy, like I am 😏
The open chords definitely have their place to be. I love the fat sound of the simple C G F progression in "Little Busters" by the pillows for example. But i get what he's saying
Awesome! I dig the low/high chord trick
It works great for layering up a simple arrangement!
A trick I use is to split the chords into multiple octave lines. So I'll layer three guitars playing NOFX-style octaves higher up on the neck. Having each note played simultaneously with its higher octave leads to more clarity. Also, you can get some cool parallel motion and counterpoint going on between the lines.
One thing you can also do with this technique is to blend in a clean guitar playing the standard open chords at a low level behind it. This will give it a fullness while not sacrificing clarity. In fact, if you use a jangly amp like a Vox AC-30, it might actually add to the clarity.
Obviously, this is not something you can recreate live unless you have 3-4 guitarists. But I like to take advantage of the benefits of the studio. Live music doesn't have the same standards for clarity.
To clarify what I meant by counterpoint and parallel motion:
For example, if I was moving from G major to D major, I might play one octave part that started on G on the A string and moved down to F# on the A string. That half step downward movement feels pleasing and logical. And then I'd have another guitar playing the D on the A string and just staying there across both chords. Lastly, I'd have a third guitar playing B on the A string and moving down to A on the same string. So there's some cool voice leading going on there and you get interesting inversions that you don't get if you play standard chords. Also, the chords sound bigger because they're spread out over three guitars and they're all doubled in the higher octave (in this case on the G string).
Nice! I like blending them with a clean guitar too, though I tend to use acoustic guitars more now, as you get that extra percussive sound from them, and they don't sound as muddy if you're keeping them down the centre channel like an amped track can sometimes do. That Wanima song I used a clip of in the video is actually a great example of that sound!
There's never any good reason _not_ to take advantage of things we can do in the studio or with technology - at least when it comes to layering up instruments. Seems like you and I have similar approaches to recording guitars, as I know _exactly_ what you mean by "NOFX-style". That technique creates some nice texture
I love the AC-30 combined with Gretsch's FilterTron pickups.
Strapped for cash years ago in like 2008-9, I bought one an _Epiphone Valve Junior_ 5W tube head for $100. Using my cabinet-maker's skills, built a small open-back cabinet from top-shelf plywood to go with it. Loaded it with 10" and 12" drivers and got _AMAZING_ results. Right now I have one 10" Creamback and one 12" Greenback in it.
TLDR:The combination of a 10" and 12" speaker makes for some really cool sounds that I just don't get with other cabinets. I've since built more for myself and friends.
Great stuff. Thank you
Happy to help!
@@SugarpillProd your videos are always insightful. I'm always learning something when I watch them.
Thanks, that's really nice to hear. Makes it all worthwhile!
Interesting and educational vid ,I found the comments just as engaging. I like how you engage with the posters , not just post and forget.
Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts!
Great video as always. Which program is that at 1:50?
Thanks! It's a website called Oolimo.
Great video. What's the program that you use at 1:50?
Thanks! It's a website called Oolimo.
@@SugarpillProd thanks! Going to try it out! 🙏
What DAW do you use?
I use Reason 12 for recording & arranging, and Reaper for mixing & mastering.
2 tricks for if you are insistant on playing bigger chords with gain: play with as little gain as you can get away with (very important for your overal tone cutting through as well. O hey you just said this as well) & balance your pickups by adjusting the pole pieces. With every guitar I spend a few minutes finetuning my polepieces by playing several 5 and 6 string chords with as much gain as I use and then taking out overbearing notes (mostly the lower ones, thicker strings have more power, but this is literally personal taste) and bringing up notes that do not come through. (usually I have my B polepiece the highest, then the G and the high E is brought up a liiiitle bit but it's already so snappy/sharp by itself. Also, personal taste)
Or buy a small eq pedal, experiment with gains settings, various over drive pedals and use your guitar's volume control. Try a single coil instead of a humbucker. Doing so I can get defined/balanced cleans with Marshalls/Mesas and EVH 5150s.
I do love single coils, and I prefer them over humbuckers for almost any application, however in the case of this, I would probably opt for a humbucker. They have a tendency to dull the single a little more, whereas single coils would only add to that brittle / harsh sound I was describing. However, as you mentioned, there's a ton of ways you can go about this. The methods I showed are just a few that have worked for me. Thanks for sharing!
@@SugarpillProd I love P90s for exploring that area between a little fur and clean with some bite. Not questioning your methods at all but as you said there are lots of ways to play with and that to me is 3/4 the fun. Thanks.
question. how often do u get a new guitar lead?
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding you here, haha. Do you mean like buying a new jack cable?
@@SugarpillProd yeah
Honestly very rarely. I don't think I've bought one in the last 5 years or so, haha. But I put very little strain on any of my cables, so that's probably a factor. I don't play live and I basically just have one connected to my Axe Fx that's coiled up at all times, so I'm not doing anything that could lead to it breaking.
Learning super basic soldering is helpful though. 9/10 times a broken cable just needs re-soldering, so you can save a lot of money by getting a cheap soldering iron and fixing them yourself, rather than buying a new cable each time. Hope that helps!
@@SugarpillProd thanks bro. now i need to learn how to solder lol
Generally, adding the third of a chord in the low end just makes the chord sound muddy. I don’t even use it on acoustic guitar. I prefer the openness of the sound.
I get that, but I wasn't really talking about about a muddy sound in this one, rather that shrill / brittle sound you get from full chords when played through heavily distorted tones. Personally I like the sound of thirds on guitar, especially when broken down to only 2 strings - obviously that's totally taste dependent though. I tend to leave them out if I'm playing full chords.
Never considered splitting the chords like this. It sounds awesome though, the guitars are huge!
Thanks! I hope you can put it to good use in the future 😊
I use the splitting chords trick. But I would argue that basic major chords sound fine with distortion.
It's a cool technique!
@SugarpillProd , I am a sucker for rich, extended chords. Maj7, maj9, 11ths, 13ths, etc. As we know, it sounds horrible with high gain when playing those. But if you split between 2 or 3 guitars, it becomes **chef's kiss**.
Mass of the Fermenting Dregs mentioned! Love that band. Nice video
Thanks! They're an awesome band!
AC-DC, Oasis.... (always an exception to the rule! 😉)
That's true! Though it's a sound I don't particularly enjoy, haha. At least not for the genres I typically produce in any way.
Or just don't play chords with distortion.
That works too and makes quieter sections more unique
Hmm.. why have I got Katy perry's Firework stuck in my head now?
I have no idea 😂 Maybe that song uses a similar progression? I'll have to go have a listen, it's been a minute since I last heard it, haha.
Yeah tell this to Angus and Malcolm
I'd have a hard time calling their tone "high gain" though. They're crunchy at best, kinda for the reasons mentioned in this video. Like they sound great - I'm not really a fan of that style of music, but there's a ton of clarity to the guitars. It's just not the particular sound I'm talking about here.
You lost me from the first line. I've literally never had the issue you described. In fact, using open chords always sound more full and resonant (to me anyway) in part because more of the string is actually vibrating.
I agree they sound more full, but it depends on the sound you're using. If it's a super high gain tone, something like a Mesa, 5150, etc, they tend to sound quite shrill and harsh. But if it's a more crunchy or clean tone, you're probably fine.
I disagree with your premise. I started as a jazz player over twenty years ago and now mostly play punk rock. I use single cutaways and Boogie MkIV amps, so crazy high gain and a ton of harmonic content. I regularly use open and complex voicings and they absolutely sound well-defined. It is literally all in your hands. You simply have to develop your left hand muting and right hand articulation. Don't get me wrong, I also use triads higher on the neck (with the 5th as the root to make it sound heavier), and make extensive use of root/5th diads, but I quite often use full E, A, and D form barre chords and their associated variations (7s, dom., add9s, sus., etc.). If you really need more definition the better "production trick" is to simply double the guitars clean and blend that in to accent the fundamentals. Never turn down the gain! LOL. You gotta use that lead channel as a rhythm channel we're playing punk rock here.
Augmenting with a clean or acoustic guitar is always a good shout. But you inevitably still have that harshness to the guitars when playing full chords through high gain amps. You're not fixing this, just covering it up slightly.
I don't know the extent of your recording knowledge, but there's a number of ways that even if you have been recording through super high gain amps and played like that, undoubtedly things have happened in the recording and mixing phase to counteract this. As I always try to preach, it's better to fix these things at the source first, instead of leaving it for someone else to.
Though this is also totally context dependent. If you want to make a record like Psychocandy, then the more harshness the better. But if you want a cleaner, polished sound, then turning back the gain (or separating things out) is a good way to get that sound.
@@SugarpillProd I've been doing live and recording engineering for about twenty years. The player's hands have the most to do with how much clarity you get with open or complex chord structures. I don't have any Grammys on my shelf so my opinion is worth about as much as the next internet rando's. Regardless, I appreciate your content we just have a difference of opinion here.
@@rickfinsta2951 No worries, all good!
It’s all about strum control, fretting control and proper amp settings that sit well with the band. If you bias the strumming and fretting to slightly arpeggiate the open chord and place the higher notes slightly after the bass tones, you can make gorgeous high gain open chords. Noob mistake maybe. Pro lemonade is more like it. You may also select the lower notes only to get away with the shapes that flow better than just brut force power chording. Don’t get me wrong…Power chords are my bread and butter but variety is the spice of life and versatility is the spice of performance.
Oasis would beg to differ.
Actually they're a great example of the sound I was talking about. Supersonic just sounds like a wall of thin, buzzy guitars to me 😂 Not a sound I personally enjoy, but everyone has their own tastes.
oasis are a shoegaze-adjacent band at the very least, so i suspect that they wouldn't really need to worry about this sorts thing
now you sound like the strokes lol
Exactly! Also never a bad thing 😄
Your argument is circular. Why don't the chords sound good, because they sound hazy and are hard to make clear. Use more mods and treble, and indeed as you said less gain. The vast majority are using too much bass
There's for sure a lot of different ways you can approach this issue 👍
You didn’t even strum the top 3 strings when you played the open chord. Not sure you are on to anything here except the production tricks. But that’s a different topic really.
Yes I did lol. They get lost when playing through high gain tones, which is kinda the whole idea behind this video.
The dissonance that the chords + high gain is gloomy as all hell, why would you wann remove that?
I guess I don't really hear it as dissonance (or not a pleasing dissonance). More so just a nasty brittle sound that gets fatiguing to listen to after awhile. That's why I'd separate those out, so you still get the dissonance with the lower register chords, but the upper ones sound more controlled.
If anything sounds muddy it's playing thirds on the bass strings. So your example with the power chords is not that great because it has two thirds in it.
I didn't say it sounded muddy though? I agree that thirds can, but that's more to do with the tone you're using. My point is that open chords tend to sound too thin / hazy when playing through high gain amps because there's basically too much information there. So splitting out the chords into high and low sections gives you more control over the sound, from both a recording and mixing perspective.
If you did want to play open chords through a heavily distorted amp however, I would agree that leaving out the 3rd - so say 3x0033 for a G chord - would sound much better.
@@SugarpillProd That's exactly what I mean (3x0033).... so in your example where you split the chords you do three of the four chords with 3rds on the low part and then you put thirds in the high part as well. This gives you two thirds an octave apart which will cause intonation problems PLUS the somewhat unclear sound of 3rds on low strings. It's not to criticise but this is part of how to make good arrangements. Double 3rds are always problematic and don't sound very well, they are FORBIDDEN in classical harmony for exactly that reason.... Piano players never play thirds in the low range of the keyboard when comping songs.
@@josdurkstraful I mean piano is a very different instrument from guitar, and I don't agree with anything being "forbidden". I personally like the sound of 3rds a lot on lower guitar strings. They add a nice jangly sound that you don't really get when using 5ths or octaves. As long as you play them in right, I've never found them to be an issue.
Fair enough if that's not your kind of thing, but that also wasn't what I was talking about in the video regardless, haha.
As a bass player I will conform this, thirds and sixth (imperfect consonance intervals) sound much better of in the higher registers. Just my opinion though.
@@matthewjones6836 First piano, now bass. I don't know what's going on in this comment thread anymore 🤣