Stop Playing Bass Like a Guitarist
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
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I play bass in a band with no guitarist so sometimes I am forced and asked to play cords so I hope that in this case I can be excused, what do you think? We have no intentions of adding a guitarist since we are more trad jazz oriented
@@davidwareham3569 There's no rules. If it sounds good to you then stick with it! Especially in your case playing more chords probably helps to fill the sound out more, so I get why you'd go that route.
@@davidwareham3569 Bassists DO play chords! They just do it by outlining the chords.
I really agree with this. Whenever I write a song, I record guitars, drums and vocals and then I listen to it. While listening, it’s very easy to notice what’s missing and to create the bass line with all the fills at the right moment.
Bass was always the last thing I used to add too. I think when you're recording primarily by yourself, the standard drums-bass-guitars-vocal setup doesn't really work. But overtime I've found how big of an impact getting a bass part to lock in with the drums can really have - no matter how simple or complex the line itself is.
@@SugarpillProdyou’re so damn clever dude, and if you weren’t teaching us pop punk secrets I’d have never gotten to know your work. cheers!
@tactik5903 Haha thanks, I appreciate that! I'm really not doing anything clever though, I'm just highlighting the ideas from bands & producers I like, so all credit goes to them.
@@SugarpillProd modest too lol
I do the exact opposite. I record bass first. Then add everything else around that. Bass is my primary instrument though.
i clicked on this video knowing i have to stop playing the guitar like a bass, using only power chords and variations
same. for the genres im playing it makes sense as many people do similar stuff in modern metal/rock that has that sorta djent influence but I find myself realizing i've spent the whole song using only the bottom 4 strings and mostly 1 note at a time and I'm sorta realizing modern metal/hard rock rhythm guitar is often just playing the roll of Heavy Bass Embiggener. It's a vibe and super powerful, especially if you play around with when to use unison or trading little lines between bass and guitar or even harmonizing as much as is allowed with distorted tones, but I wonder if I should start experimenting with putting guitar where it usually belongs in other genres.
@@benpowell5348yes, do experiment with other genres!
That's how I made songs like "okay person" "the engine" and "salt" (some of my best songs imo)
Switching things up is how you keep a fan base interested
power chords and palm mutes sound horrible on bass
@@Helena-gk4ui horrendous take
@@oservoasafe your bASS playing is horrendous
The one thing that advanced me as a bassist more than anything is when I stopped viewing myself as a sidekick to the guitarist and started viewing myself as a partner to the drummer.
These days there are lots of famous tracks with the drums and bass isolated available on UA-cam. I strongly recommend that any and all bass players start giving these a listen, it gives a lot of insight on how bass and drums combine to make or break a song. Many sound like full complete tunes in themeselves.
Thanks for the tip!
I've been playing in a band for almost a year and all this time we hadn't had a drummer (bc of some issues). Finally we had one join the band not long ago, but now it's quite difficult for me to rewire my playing, so i'll keep that in mind!
I turn up kick drum volume so it’s clearly audible over everything else then compose something using the kicks as a guide for the rhythm note placement etc.
I think a good mindset for bass is to focus on when to play and the length of the notes if you align this with the kick and snare you’ll sound solid and have a groove to work with. Once you have that groove you can think about which notes to use and how to include more than just root notes if thats whats needed.
100%.
If really want the drums to pop, you gotta lock with the kick. Bass and Kick must function as a single unit. You don't have to hit every note together, but it must have influence on what you do. On the other hand, if you avoid the snare, it really comes to life and gives the drums room to breathe. Sometimes even when playing more staccato, I will hold right before the snare and get my cutoff to line up with the snare to make it sound that much bigger.
Another thing you can do is walk through the snare: say the drum part is really sparse, but it's basically kick-rest-snare-rest. It's going to be very hard to back off the snare (or the three, depending on how you think about it) completely, so I borrow a trick from James Jamerson in "I Was Made to Love Her": in that song, he's basically locked to the melody, so to avoid a 1-3 pattern, he takes what's a single quarter note in the orchestra, and plays two sixteenth notes.
It's a great way to lay off the snare when you can't actually lay off the snare. Check out the song if you want to hear it: the theme starts right in the first measure, and the bass appears in the third, so you won't have long before hearing Jamerson double tapping the third beat.
Cliff Burton watching this “Aw f***”
did cliff burton play in this genre?
@@jakefennell8319no, he was a thrash metal bassist. He played with Metallica, before he sadly left this world.
@@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844 exactly my point... every genre is different, in some genres playing bass in a more guitary way is a good thing.
@@jakefennell8319 I actually personally disagree, I think that metal needs more interesting basslines, but I respect your opinion
@@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844 I personally play a lot of interesting harmonies in my basslines, and get some nice bass solo's, but you ultimately do want to follow the guitars a lot in metal, as the bass really is what makes the guitars actually sound heavy, without that its pretty weak
One thing that really helped me as a teenager was that my best friend was the drummer in our band so we were already on the same wavelength. We didn't even have to talk about it we just had this implicit understanding.
I feel like a great balance of these ideas is to have the bass follow the kick and snare during the verses to sound more alive and interesting but when it gets to the chorus you play the root notes off of what the guitarist is doing which in some cases the bass following the guitar can make things sound big or even heavy and the same thing goes for when your song may have a breakdown or something like that. But that’s just my opinion
Hey I agree, I feel that a busy bass over the chorus makes the lyrics muddier and the melody less interesting, a good root note reinforcement helps on building emphasis on the vocal melody while increasing the energy overall
Choosing when to follow and when to do your own thing is for sure part of bass composition. I would advise not to make anything as formulaic as you suggest. Yes, the moment you go from framing to following creates fantastic dynamic but this shift may actually work better coming out of the chorus, into the bridge, etc etc etc. Assess each individual part and the song overall for what will work best.
Rules and tricks are great, but don't let them lock you in or you will find yourself writing the same song over and over again.
I tend to bounce between enforcing the drums while playing a counter melody to either the vocals or guitar. Or when not doing a supportive melody accenting certain parts of the focal point of the song. creating connective runs to join parts of a phrase or song part change entering the chorus for instance can create a call and response in your own bass lines. also knowing when not to play is as important as playing the right note in many cases.
Great points about sustain. Leaving space for snare is classic.
It also helps to write parts more vertically, try to use mostly one position of your left hand, instead of jumping across the neck, soon you'll find a lot of new melodic and groove ideas. Don't really now why it works, but it works for me every time.
Great video. I used to pound away on the rootnote all the time myself. Generally eight to the bar. I joined a cover band in my mid-40s and soon learned I had to come up with other types of lines rather than purely rootnotes. I found that simple walking patterns or a root-fifth was enough, and I find I'm using them in my own compositions too!
Watching your process of programming and editing bass lines using the MIDI roll was super helpful. It’s great to have a visual aid to see how the bass interacts with the drums. I usually program my bass lines before recording them and sometimes I feel like I’m cheating. Seeing you do it this way too reassures me that it’s a valid approach to writing bass parts. I’d love to see more MIDI breakdowns of bass and drums in future videos!
I'm glad to hear that! MIDI does really help you get into the nitty-gritty stuff when you're trying to work out the best part for your song. I normally start out with the intention of going back and re-recording things later on, but then I find out the MIDI has better "feel" than me, haha.
Honestly starting with guitar and switching to bass has hindered me a bit. It definitely helped me become comfortable with stringed instruments but 3 years into playing I still find myself trying to shred or play super melodic stuff in fills without having a firm grasp on the actual role the bass should fill. Great vid
Thanks, I hope it helps you in some way!
Bass is the backbone of the band man. It ...literally... connects all the other players. Bass makes the low frequencies, so everyone else gets reinforced or flubbed in it's upper harmonics & rhythm.
I'll usually hit the root on 1, vibe & fill with chord friendly tones, then lead in the next chord's root.
Not much 'shred', but plenty of space for speed, fill, & creativity.
I play both, love coming up with cool and melodic bass lines
This helped so much for practice today, especially playing a song in a type I wasn’t that familiar with/good at and really needed to play to the part 🙂 thank you!!
Really happy to hear that!
I'd love to see some videos showcasing Dan Andriano, his bass lines are so hypnotic.
Dan's definitely one of my personal favourites. Dude doesn't get enough love for the many great bass lines he plays in ALK3 and outside of that band too (his work with Slapstick, The Falcons & The Damned Things, just to name a few).
The way they interact with Matt's guitar parts are incredible too, they both fill the space with intention without being overbearing
This is so important! The bass has so much power over the song! I love mike dirnt pre and post american idiot to show the contrast and sheer range of different roles the bass can take.
Mike's definitely a great example of a bassist that really plays for the song, and not his own ego!
I just joined a band last year playing bass. I was always a guitar player, so I can relate to this. I tend to play root notes, but I'm starting to play notes in the chord. It works pretty well. Also, I haven't seen anyone using Reason Studios in a while! I used that DAW for a long time.
That's great, I hope things go well with the new band! Yeah Reason is like my comfort DAW as it's what I grew up using, haha. I still love it for all my production and recording needs, though I'll bounce out of it into Reaper for mixing & mastering.
This exact thing is how I can usually tell if the bassist is a bassist or a converted guitarist. (Also, bassists tend to notice where the melody has "holes" and will dive through them with something higher on the neck).
This was, in my opinion, the best video you’ve made on this channel from a teaching standpoint.
That's really nice to hear! I was worried this one might be a bit too rambly, or at least the first half of it anyway, haha. Glad you enjoyed it!
When ive played bass with a band I always referred to myself as a guitarist who is playing bass instead of a "bassist". I always felt that it would be obvious by my bassline
To all the aspiring bass players out there, spending time on MIDI will give you a very wide understanding of the different note lengths and placements can really change the pocket you sit in relating to the rhythms. Root and fifths are fantastic jumping off points, and will simplify the process, then you can extend your range from there. Fantastic advice in this video!
One thing that's pretty cool is to switch between the different grooves as it reinforces the feel of the song. For example, let's say the song has four verses. Verses 1 and 3 might be more laid back and Verses 2 and 4 might have more energy, with Verse 4 having a shift in the feel of the vocals. Use the plain one on verses 1 and 3, the groovier one on Verses 2 and the syncopated one on 4.
I've been a bass player for thirty years, so I watched this thinking I was playing my basses wrong. Turns out I wasnt.
I play guitar, bass, and drums on the songs I write (but never upload or anything, cus I don’t have a mic yet), and I usually choose the chords, write the bass line, write the guitar, then the drums (following the bass). I really like the bass being the main focus, cus it just sounds so good.
30 decades of playing bass guitar and you are absolutely right and all all the greatest play the way you are teaching
Are you really 300+ years old?
oldest bass player in history
love this format of video!!!
Thanks, happy to hear that!
I think pattern 1 into pattern 2 would sound great. Like starting simple then getting more complex later on.
For sure! I think that's one thing I forgot to mention is that it can also be fun to vary patterns up like that, from section to section.
So awesome. Really enjoyed this!
Thanks so much for watching!
There are many songs where only the root bass notes are played. In songs like those, the rhythm is more important. Simple grooves are achieved with only root notes in many of the greatest songs ever written. Assuming we are talking about a song-oriented band, the bass player who overplays can ruin a song, whereas one who gives the other musicians space is more likely to get the phone call for the next gig.
I absolutely agree.
A very helpful video, I was struggling to find a way to play bass less as a guitarrist and more as a bass player. Would you make another video talking about drum patterns for punk?
Yeah I think I might cover that topic soon. I did make an older video based around the skate punk beat, but I'd like to do something a bit more in-depth on that subject soon. Thanks for watching!
First, hi :) and yeeeeaaaaahhhhh I definitely play a bass like a guitar and this is interesting because it sounds so different just by the way you play the bass
Thanks, I hope some of the information ends up being useful for you!
Death Cab are doing the Transatlanticism tour here in late August 😄
Sounds like a good show! I think they're also doing The Postal Service record too.
@@SugarpillProd Yup! Excited to see how that comes across live.
Good concepts here, agree with all said. The bass is awesome because it is 2 things at once, a rhythm and a melody instrument - nothing else does this in a band
I tend to lay off the backbeat. To let snare breath. I almost always play kicks As long as it’s not too busy.
This is quintescential advice, I should have been told a long time ago. Thanks mate!
No problem! Better late than never 😁
that Bb with the #5 is mad, how do you get to play that G along with it?
I prefer to write basslines using MIDI too :D but sometimes I get carried away and write something that’s unplayable on a real bass 😅
Haha yeah I get that. I don't think that's always a bad thing though. Depends on what type of music you're making. Some genres benefit from the unplayable, whereas others it can take you out of it.
i think the band Minutemen really highlight what everyone in a 3 piece rock band should be doing. the guitar takes up the melody and the treble frequencies, the bass takes up a reinforcing rhythm while adding a lower harmony/counter melody. then the drums are keeping the strong foundation. the band does this really REALLY well, and its a shame their lead guitarist died so early on.
I've played with tons of average and sub-par bassists, and only a handful of amazing high-level players. Being a good bass player is about perspective and most guitarists suck at bass because they lack a fundamental understanding of that instruments' role in a band. Listen to greats like Carol Kaye, James Jamerson, Paul McCartney... it's not about playing the root.
I’m so glad I’m in a a really accepting band, i made a bass line and usually they would call me a bum and kick me out, but my band decided to make chords and leads with their guitars, idk what my drumming doing rn probably playing Fortnite.
I usually start with a fancy bass line and then simplify it. Maybe cause I started as a bassist primarily
I did it the other way, and (maybe the unconventional way?) learned bass first 😬 now trying to learn guitar, and it’s such a challenge lol
thats cool, thx
thats why many guitarrists suck at playing bass they all think its easier cause it has less strings, without groove songs will have less impact, people listening may not know whats making them dance or like that song but probably many songs its the bass mixed with a good drummer
start playing guitar like a bassist
My advice to bass players, as a Bass player of 30 years: when a guitarist won't tell you the chord changes or if a chord is major, minor, etc...quit immediately!
Aha. So I picked up on playing the bass while watching the samples in midi, but love the idea of copying the kick etc into a bass region then literally reading that.
It's a nice little trick to use if you're ever stuck for ideas!
Off-topic response: I think this is the first time I've heard your voice, for some reason I'd always presumed that you were American and it was a surprise to hear a fellow Brit.
Haha yeah I get that all the time. I'd assume probably because of the typical bands I normally talk about, everyone assumes I'm from California or something 🤣
Try imagining a bass line without patterns that instead varies by rhythm and/or harmony. The goal with this approach is a fluid line that begins and ends with the tune, or by sections.
It may sound random isolated, but in the mix it will subtley drive a tune.
Uh, think like the bass line is a series of related bass sentences that became bass paragraph for the tune.
Patterns are for machines, mannn...😃
It depends on the song. Sometimes just sticking to the root and keeping it simple is is the best way to go, sometimes not.
Without a doubt.
What song are you using as the example? I really dig it.
Thanks! It's something I wrote years ago that I never really did anything with. So it doesn't a name or release unfortunately, haha.
I’m GUILTY as charged 😂
"Crazy Train" by Ozzy has one of the best bass lines ever!
I look at japanese bass players for Inspiration. I think they are something else
Dammit. My hands are big enough to play full Barre chords on a 4-string. I'm not changing. Very good advice video though. :)
I think an important thing to mention would be that you don't have to play on every drum hit either. Like, you could leave space for the snare hit. All in all, leaving space is an important skill as a bassist. It technically leads to simpler bass lines, but it's a different kind of "simple" than playing constant 8th notes. The extra added space makes the bass notes that you decide to play sound a lot more important.
Also, taking advantage of this idea of leaving space in different sections is a good way of adding contrast. Maybe in one section you add more space between the notes, and in other sections you play more full. Nothing needs to be done about the note choice. I actually think the typical advice to "not just play roots" can be harmful. Playing chord roots isn't an issue (and it's actually what you want to be doing most of the time - at least you want to target the root, even if you aren't staying on it all the time). The bass line of Can't Stop is 95% root notes, but I don't hear anyone complaining about it. What is an issue is the lack of variety.
I think I did? Or at least that was the idea I was referring to when I said "The key thing here is the placement of each note, and figuring out when and when not to place your bass notes on the kick or snare".
Just listen to baddass drummers and bassist a lot, try to make your drummer sound like a badass, don't overstep on his snare (learn to lock in and mute at the right time), never play what the melody is doing but harmonizing is ok, and just have fun in the process, you already know your notes, and your chords, now its about figuring out what sounds good or doesn't. Also, playing with fingers only for a while can help to separate the two things.
It would sound even cooler if you broke up the fifths and started emphasizing different colors of the chord, and used those notes to lead into the roots of the next notes by creating inversions of the chords that build tension and relieve into the next chord. That’s something you should work out when the melody of the song is written as you can get some really great counter melody or create a stacked harmony amongst everything else in the band. Something to think about.
Sounds like a cool idea! It's just an example track so it's not anything I'm going to expand on, but I'm sure it'd sound decent.
@@SugarpillProd always expand!
Sometimes I’ll go thru my old projects and find a gem and revisit it and release it.
I have one song that I jokingly say took me 10 years to write because I wrote like a couple minutes, forgot about it, came back and wrote a few more and forgot about it
I ❤️ forgetting about it for a while.
Oh yeah I get that! I just don't really write for myself anymore. I'm much more into producing for other bands / artists now, so the things in these videos are just little example pieces I write 5 minutes before filming, or old stuff I've found on a random hard drive, haha.
3:08 "Bass; Drums: The Balls of the band" -ZackGrooves
Im in need of my first bass after playing guitar for around a year. I have a budget of £200, and want quite a high quality instrument. What would you recommend?
I'm sure you'd be able to pick up a decent Squier bass in that kind of price range. Personally I really like Fender's Mexican made guitars. I see those go for £300-£400 normally, potentially cheaper if you find a 2nd hand one. But if your budget is super tight, Squier would be a good option. Yamaha's basses I've heard are very good too, though I've never tried one personally.
TBH I pretty much ignore the guitar completely and focus more on the kick and snare and what the vocals are doing, you can hear this a lot in Paul McCartney who really is top tier regardless of what kind of music you are making people can learn a lot by dissecting the Beatles these days I'd say Radiohead are the modern equivalent.
i really had to up my volume for this
I love your point you made in this vid after watching the whole thing, but the only critique I have is the title sounding like click-bait.
Thanks! I'd say it's more of an intentional over-generalisation rather than outright clickbait though. But also it's just part of the marketing. I am making these videos in the hopes people watch them at the end of the day, haha.
I'll play bass the way I want to.
Started off as a drummer, then learned how to play guitar. Bass, in my opinion, exists in both of these worlds. I prefer to look at bass as a “melodic percussion” instrument.
I’m much better as a bassist than I am as a guitarist now.
Do you think I could get the tab for the guitar riff
I’ve been coming back to that one video with it frequently, it sounds so good
I play each part at the end of this video, so that should give you the visuals to work it out. It's pretty simple stuff. Oh and it's in standard tuning if that helps - ua-cam.com/video/MGs6MYGI0qw/v-deo.htmlsi=HaeyKyQCnaBTfM-T
I do what I want 😌
While I don't listen to them a lot, Red Hot Chili Peppers are a great starting band to truly "get" the role of bass. It's not about flashy playing and slapping, the guitar and bass have a dialogue, like an old couple finishing each other's words.
Depends on your style of music. The bass is much more than the old stereotype of role you list here. It can be flashy or it can be just a background foundational role helping the drums or it can be a hybrid. RHCP actually does this here and there. All about preference but one way or style isn’t superior to the other
What MIDI program is this?
Reason 12 👍
Once you’ll learn to play with fingers, you’ll start to create even cooler grooves! I think for the style of music you play here fingers give a nicer tone with more low mids to fill out the sound.
In terms of groove you can start using dead notes and rakes to create interesting rhythmical elements.
I tend to switch based on the context of music. Sometimes pick sounds better, sometimes fingers. That's why I never understood people who are "anti" one way or the other, haha. They're both good, just depends on the sound you're going after.
With me I have the vice versa problematic of writing guitar riffs as a bass player. They always tend to be more bass-esque. FIne for Rhythm but not for some lead stuff or melodies.
While I agree with everything you said, I actually prefer the version where the bass plays the root notes. I think that in the newer version you focus too much on the drums and bass and totally forget the bass a guitar relationship. In fact, the fact that the guitar is playing arpeggiated notes without much focus on the root kinda calls for a reenforcement of the root by the bass. That and the fact that the drum part is not particularly groovy, which makes the overly groovy bass stand out too much, especially in such a low key type of song.
But I get it. Playing root notes is boring. So instead of playing with the rhythm, I would play with the note choice, by experimenting with 5ths, 7ths or even 9ths here and there in order to enrich the melody of the guitars. Think English post-punk/goth rock type of bass line
For sure, I can definitely see both working in this context. Like I said, I don't see one being better necessarily than the other, it just depends what you're going for. Those are all good bits of advice you mentioned though!
I actually to make myself stop wanting to play my guitar as a bass lol
This guy: stop playing bass like a guitarist
James Jamerson: 🤔
Are you insinuating that James Jamerson played bass like a guitarist? Because if so, that's a wild take 🤣
This is a very interesting technical approach. For me personally it would be too "artificial" to generate/program everything with midi. I like to feel directly what I'm doing with my bass and my fingers.
But I can imagine that a beginner would benefit from the visual aspect.
Honestly I find bass plugins have gotten to the same point as drums, where you can really make them sound realistic as long as you know what you're doing. Like the bass line in Attention sounds super realistic to my ear, and that's all MIDI. But it's also fun recording it with a real bass too. Like you said, it's more of a visual aid in this context.
It isn't just for beginners. Writing lines direct to piano roll or some other way can help break out of the physical patterns you've inevitably picked up over the years and create brand new ideas.
@@pseudonymlifts2 Yeah I really agree with you there. Having to rely on only your ears makes you come up with a lot of things you normally wouldn't if you had a bass in hand. It's almost like playing a new instrument. Both approaches can work equally well, depending on what you're going for.
Victor Wooten demonstrates it best, but, with bass it's not what you play rather when you play ✌️😅
my issue is playing guitar like a bassist.
What if I play guitar like a bassist?
That example you're playing in the beginning of the video is PAINFULLY familiar and I can't remember what the song is and it's driving me absolutely nuts. Please help
*Laughs in Josh Homme's Kyuss era
2nd one is better, but still, frankly, a lot of room to grow. You got it right that locking in with the drums helps. But... you have so many more techniques you can utilize. Maybe hire a bass player to see what a pro can come up with.
Just depends what you're going for really. There's a million ways you can play a bass line, and every person will add their own unique twist. Just because there's "many more techniques" you can add in, doesn't mean you should. Knowing when to hold back is just as important, if not more so.
@@SugarpillProd there are more than a million ways to do it. If the entire point of the video is "look how this works better than that," then, in my opinion, demonstrating it by adding one bassline writing technique leaves more to be desired. If, instead, the point of the video is "meh, know when to hold back, it's more important," when it comes to writing the bass line, then the video just kind of wastes the viewer's time.
@spastickitchen It was neither. The video isn't about one "technique". The idea was to highlight the different roles a bass usually plays within a composition. A lot of it is based on my past experiences working with bands and artists, so it's addressing a common issue I hear that's prevalent in a lot of peoples writing - of which I used to do the same.
And like I mentioned in the video numerous times, one isn't better than the other, not everything is an absolute. You could go more technical, you could go more basic, it really doesn't matter as long as you're serving the song. Like you said, you could utilise a bunch of other techniques, but that also speaks to the mindset of being more focused on yourself, rather than the composition as a whole. That sort of "tunnel vision" is a super common problem I hear with bands, where they're all concerned about their own individual instruments (both in the writing and mix) but less concerned about how these parts sum together.
I think if you read a lot of the comments, the video seems to have reached the desired audience.
And who says that writing a part focusing on reinforcement of the song versus writing a part designed to highlight a certain instrument doesn't involve writing techniques?
And, furthermore, what sort of writing "serv[es] the song?" If you add any sort of part, and it does nothing to serve the song, then the song should reflect the artists vision better if you mute the instrument. But, it's all up to the artist. The video seems to me to boil down to "check out this riff with this bassline I wrote. I wasn't happy with it, so I replaced it with a bass line that locks into the drums instead of just the guitar. Doesn't it sound better? Maybe, I don't know." "Writing to serve the song," as people put it, is basically just a meaningless aphorism. You write a cool part you like. If it's for someone else, they either like it or not. If I was doing a session, as a bass player, and someone told me to write a bass part for them that served the song, I would just ask them for more information, like, what sort of bassline do they imagine in the song. After all is said and done, the "write to serve the song" language ultimately tells me (or whomever is composing the part) absolutely nothing.
And then, making a video about this topic. I know it takes a lot of time and effort, so I don't mean to sound like I am just trashing your work, but I feel like the interesting part of this topic just kind of gets hinted, instead of developed further. So, constructively, this could be a springboard into another video that dives deeper into the topic of how different sorts of basslines sound over the same riff. That way, the common nothingburger of a phrase "write to serve the song" gets something with meaning to back it up with tangible examples.
Sorry if it sounds "salty," again, I don't mean to crap on the video you clearly put work into. However, I've had so many bad experiences with that phrase and analogs of it (for example: write a song that fits this artist, who hasn't released anything before; or, write a song that fits the vibe of my movie that hasn't been filmed yet; or, use instrumentation that sounds [insert nonmusical adjective here]). I know it's a limitation of communication, but long form video format could be the perfect way to address this sort of thing.
If you'd like to expand on this further, I propose ,if you feel comfortable, you could send me some stems, and I'd be happy to put 3-4 different sorts of bass lines over the riff, and you could do with it whatever you like- use it in a video if you want, throw it away if you think it's trash, make a video about youtube comment, use it in a commercial, whatever.
I'm really speaking from a producer background, so writing a part that serves the song isn't an empty statement, at least not to me. It's about focusing on the focal points of a song, and not injecting unnecessary elements just because you can. That's really it. Like you might be able to come up with the wildest bass part, with double handed tapping, slap and dead notes all over the place, but that's probably not what most people want out of a bass line that's there to serve the song. Especially if it's not the focal point - or one of the focal points - of the composition.
The example given is just a very basic idea to highlight the difference between a typical bass lines that's just been added because most people assume they need bass in their song, vs one that has a little more thought behind the actual groove of said song, and what the drums are doing. A better example I could've used would be to have something with more of an obvious focal point, like vocals, but I was trying to keep things simple just so viewers didn't have too many parts to focus on all at once. It's a hard concept to both teach and show practically, so I thought keeping things as stripped back as possible would work best in this case.
I'm still learning how to best "teach" these ideas, as it's not something that comes naturally to me, so I'm more than happy to take criticism on that end. I'm never often 100% satisfied whenever I finish a video, but I do stand by the points made in this one, and it's not like everything there is to be said on this topic I've covered in these 8 minutes, that would be silly to suggest. I plan to make more on this subject area, because it's a huge concept to explore.
And to your other point, something I've noticed when working with great session musicians, is that they really do focus on every part of a composition, and not just themselves. They might have been hired to only play the bass, drums, whatever, but they're never writing parts to impress the artist or producer, they're writing parts to enhance what's already been presented to them. They're listening for what's needed, and how their part can affect everything else around it. Whereas a more typical band situation usually involves every member concentrating on how "cool" they can make their part, without really giving consideration to the song as a whole. As you said yourself, "you write a cool part", which makes me think you're still talking purely from the perspective of only being focused on your own instrument. I don't think great songs are just made up of every individual band member writing their own "cool part" and this somehow coming together as a well written song. I think great songs are built around 1-2 "cool parts" with everything else wrapping around those, to enhance what's unique about those initial ideas.
Hi!
Hey 👋
I disagree with the premise. Some of the best bass playing of the rock era was by guitarists! Thing Noel Redding, Hendrix’s bassist. Redding was a very talented guitar player. As a guitarist, he knew what he wanted to hear from the bass in order to correctly support the phenomenal Hendrix. One cannot argue with what he did in the Experience.
That wasn't the premise though. It's just a generalisation (based on what I see from bands I've worked with / or who ask for feedback) about how a lot of guitarists tend to approach the bass with the exact same mindset. Sometimes this is fine, but it's an instrument that serves a completely different role to that of guitar in most songs, so it's good practise to know the topics discussed in this video too, imo.
The whole "guitarist who happens to be good at bass" or "bassist who started out on guitar first" is not what I'm referring to here. That whole topic is redundant in this context.
most of what people think of as Hendrix was Noel.
Bass is a much more percussive instrument than most people understand.
2:57 The secret root note of D. 😬
Oops 🤣
Maybe instead of locking in immediately into "how the bass interacts with the kick" we should explore the genre differences and nuance first? While your video might be true for rock or pop music, in other genres the bass might take a very different role. And even in rock or pop, you can also add a funky vibe by adding higher-than-the-root notes that would lock in and accent snares or fills the same way the root notes would with the kick. What you should be focusing on instead is "why do i need bass in this song", the role and purpose of a bass line and what you'd like it to convey. The issue is not that the guitarists write bass line like a guitar *lead*, or that a bassist's understanding of their instrument is inherently different, it's that neither of them is writing as a composer. It's about composition.
I definitely agree about your points on composition, that was the overall theme I was trying to show in the video. But the role of a composer is a bit abstract in a pop / rock context, as that job is really being shared by a lot of different people - the producer, various songwriters, band members, etc.
With regards to the different genres, I can't realistically cover the nuances of every genre in one 8 minute video, so I'd rather focus on the ones that I tend to produce for.
@@SugarpillProd fair point, i wasn't familiar with your channel, but i've scanned through and yes, if we're talking pop/rock context, the points covered in the video are fair.
Yeah well, we wouldn’t have got Metallica’s Blackened if Jason actually played like a bass player
And I'd be totally fine with that 🤣
A concerned bassist thinks you should talk half as much at half the tempo and start thinking as a bassist would; for starters rhythm section, women & children first
I disagree with the take that defaulting to rootnotes is a sing of thinking from a guitarist's perspective. That's just being a beginner player in general. However, if you're barely an intermediate guitarist, when switching to bass, stuff like power chords, octaves, and pentatonic noodling are already in your repertoir and are a pretty intuitive thing to try and incorporate to your playing. Pretty basic for guitar, but immediately makes you an intermediate at bass.
Not to mention how powerful it can be when former guitar players self-admittedly play the bass like a guitar, soloing, making a wall of sound with the lead guitar, even throwing some heavy distortion in, like Lemmy, John Entwistle, Lou Barlow, etc.
Yeah I am heavily generalising there, I've just noticed from working with a lot of guitarists who end up recording bass, they tend to either over-simplify things, or over-play. But I don't really care for the weird way people segregate themselves into the "bass" or "guitar" camp, it just works for a video title, haha. They're only instruments at the end of the day. All I'm saying is from a typical arrangement perspective, the bass is 9/10 serving a different role, so playing it the same way doesn't always make sense. But as you've pointed out, it can also make for more unique styles, like say how Peter Hook plays, though they're quite case-specific.
_"However, if you're barely an intermediate guitarist, when switching to bass, stuff like power chords, octaves, and pentatonic noodling are already in your repertoir and are a pretty intuitive thing to try and incorporate to your playing"_
But I would argue this is exactly what makes someone sound like a "guitarist playing the bass". You are approaching it like lead guitar. I disagree that it makes you an intermediate bassist. That stuff isn't any more difficult on the bass than it's on the guitar, and it's not like bassists somehow learn about it later. It's just that proper bassists don't approach the bass like they would approach the guitar. (Of course there are exceptions to this, but still, when it comes to those exceptions, even they approach the bass differently than they would approach guitar.)
Bass is less about note choice and more about groove. Of course note choice is also important, but you don't just want to play "interesting notes". Actually, sometimes that's exactly what ruins the song, because the bass isn't actually outlining the harmony properly. Bass plays the most important chord tone, and most of the time it should target the root. This doesn't mean "only play roots". It means play root on the downbeat, and then add a fill. Playing bass requires a different kind of a harmonic understanding than playing guitar does, because it plays a different harmonic role. It also requires a different kind of a rhythmic understanding.
In both cases, bass is more of a "foundation", so it needs to play stuff that emphasizes the more fundamental musical elements. This means playing root notes and playing on the strong beats. Guitar and other instruments are essentially the opposite of it. On guitar, you want to add colorful chord tones and syncopation. But none of that works if there isn't a solid foundation (again, a clear sound of the chord root, and a clear sound of the downbeat). "Bootsy's basic funk formula" is a perfect demonstration of this. It starts with the most solid foundation - root note on the downbeat. Then the rest of the measure is spent playing more interesting notes and rhtyhms.
I'm not saying bass playing is just playing root notes on the strong beats. But that's the starting point that one needs to understand before starting to add more interesting stuff to their playing. And this is not an understanding that guitarists naturally have, because their role in music is different from the bassist.
My point is, if someone is a guitarist who wants to play the bass properly, they need to forget about stuff like "pentatonic noodling" and "power chords" for a while, and focus on the fundamentals of playing bass. It's a different mindset. They already know the technique, but they need to learn the music.
I think there are two kinds of guitarists playing bass. Those who understand that the bass has a different role, but only understand the most basic role, so they underplay, and those who don't understand that the bass has a different role and approach it like a lead guitar, which leads to overplaying.
This only works for YOUR genre of music. This does not work in my genre of heavy metal, or a lot of other genres, there's a whole different style there. You should've mentioned that first and foremost
That's really not true. This would apply across a ton of different genres like pop, rock, country, funk, etc. I'm sure there's plenty of metal songs you can listen to that aren't just pummeling straight 8th root notes the entire time. Cirice is one that comes to mind as a good demonstration of the bass and drum relationship.
Fuck that! You should play bass however you want to as long as you serve the song/mood.
Agree. Do not hinder your creativity. Play what you feel as the Spirit guides you.
4:02
It’s almost as if you didn’t watch the video or listen to what he said. Bravo to you.
@@thestuffmikedoes2309 Thanks. You're correct. I didn't watch the whole vid.
The click bait titles are a double edged sword.
@stu8506 So you didn't "let me explain" 💀
I’m not playing bass
just put in some time and learn fingerstyle bass. it will force you to think dikfferently
Both are great! I've never understood why some people only pick one. I just see them as a tonal thing where one can be better than the other, based on the context of the song.
@@SugarpillProdboth technqiues are great and serve different uses but that's not my point. if i really have to simplify it further: if you can't change the instrument, the more you change everything else around it will affect what and how you play it. and the input technique is a big thing.
and yes, i'm aware that bass and guitar are not the same instrument but they are very similar in how you can play them.
But it's a Bass GUITAR... 😄
Stop telling people what to do!
Music is the ultimate in freedom of expression.
I play my instruments how I want to play them. I don't listen to fools who like to hear themselves talk.
Chill dude, there's nothing wrong with exploring other ideas. Some people like to add new things into their playing.
@@SugarpillProd
And some people like to use click bait titles to get views.
Imagine making UA-cam videos to get views 🤯
@@SugarpillProd If you want respect, get views with valuable content, not false titles.
UA-cam was created to share, not to rip viewers off by wasting their time for personal gain.
@@tlb2732 Judging by the overwhelmingly warm reception this video has gotten, I think your feelings are in the minority here. Remember your opinion is not the only valid one.
no
Just do it 💪
To everyone reading this: please use your bass as if it was a guitar, don’t stop keeping fun alive! It’s called bass guitar for a reason! :)
I liked the version of the guitarist better