What about making a video to show us around your workshop and your workbench please? It will be most interesting to see how your organize your tools, workbench and workflow around the bench. Thank you for your efforts in educating the diving community.
Did a TON of these in the mid 80's ..our shop serviced a lot of shops in Palm Beach County .. The lid I had needed to be screwed down ..didn't have those quick release's you have ... I used a pipette scale to read the expansion ..scary sometimes when the pressure is nearing it highest point ...never had one give way thou ..we didn't have the stamp most have ..I had to stamp all 4 of them B3-83 I think (long time ago) ..our drying system was a tank rack with pvc plumbing we used a vacuum cleaner to blow the air and put it outside so the suns heat would help ...This is where I began my Scuba Carer ..coming from being an Auto/Truck Mechanic ... Memories ..Good Video ..I like the scale better than the pipette ....
Yes I started with Burette tubes to read water expansion, the scale is much better. They also have a pneumatic closure for lids now, it's about 3,000 bucks, one day I 'll break down and buy it.
Most educational. In the UK if the tank is used for SCUBA it must be (like yourselves) tested every 5 years but the regulator has to be tested every two years. Even if the tank is used for an airgun, the bottle has to be 5 year tested and no shop will fill it if is not stamped with the current validity from and to dates. Carbon fibre bottles are deemed unusable after 10 years whether they pass the HS test or not.
There's no proof of hydro test weakling cylinders, however excessive hot fills has proven to be detrimental to the integrity to the cylinder. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the informative video. I am here trying get a better understanding how all this works. Also I'm dabbling in a different application,. PCP for air rifles. Just purchased a carbon fiber over Aluminum tank. I have my own compressor and Have had an old retired tank laying around still holding air(Scott scba) But I will not add pressure to it at this point until I have it hydro'd (if it can be be done) The tank exterior is fine visually and I know that's as far as it goes. Reason I'm here again is Safety,. not sure if it matters, my tanks stay indoors and are not banged around. The whole 15 year thing... I'm trying to grasp,. I've seen tanks 40 yrs old holding pressure, Now that being said they could be a grenade with the pin pulled or they could last longer than I'm around(I Don't know)That's why I'm searching this information and not Just here. I'm not fond of the idea of having a hole drilled in my tank (Just Because Of A Date)and no test actually performed to justify. And I may be wrong in my thinking, and if I find that out I will change my thoughts on this. Closing thoughts: I know folks way smarter than me designed this format/platform. The other 2(TWO) factors is Safety And MONEY,. and that's what I am trying to separate if that's even possible. Now this new tank I'm getting, I will be installing the Valve and will be regularly inspecting the interior and will know how this tanks full history will be. The Scott SCBA tank I have went into burning buildings and sure it had some abuse including drops and being banged around. And again I have it Idle at this point. But it's a bit of history to me. Thank you again.
SCBA bottles are made from thin aluminum shell wrapped with carbon fiber and resin finish for strength. The lifespan of 15 years is designated by the manufacture, they believe after 15 years these bottles can weaken and no longer be trustworthy to hold pressure. These bottles easily damage, any exposed fibers is considered a weak stop. Thanks for watching... be safe.
Very good video, would like to have this in Sierra Leone to test my 25 tanks, Faber and Luxfer, plus we have 50 L volume for Surface supply, we are a danish Commercial diving company in west Africa, no tests available, I do Visuals, will now buy more test equipment and get a Water Jacket and the rest to pressurise the waterfilled tank.
You might want to invest in a Inspection Scope for Cylinder Neck Internal Thread Examination, it's impossible to see microscopic hairline cracks in the threads without it.... it's almost like guessing when you use a mirror.
You are correct, hairline cracks are easy to overlook. I do have 3 additional viewers other than a mirror. Optiviewer, Optical Plus scope and Visual Plus 3 (eddy current machine). When I teach VIP Inspectors and Hydro Testers to locate necks cracks I show them how to use all 3. Currently I have 6 tanks with confirmed neck cracks so my students can practice. I remember when these cracks first started to develop in the 80's we would spot them because they were leaking during fill, by 1989 Luxfer ceased the use 6351 aluminum the culprit of the SLC. We come a long way since. Soon I'll be posting more videos, just in the middle of summer madness with little spare time. Thanks for watching.
I knew there was an elastic allowance but didn't know about the permanent one. Given that each test permanently expands the tank a little is there consideration of how many times the tank has been tested? Ie does a tank that's been tested 10 times have the same permitted level of permanent expansion as a new tank?
@@scubatechkeylargo Does the amount of permanent expansion each test taper off over time or is it constant. If constant that would seem to make the test somewhat destructive in the long term.
With each test the permanent expansion is for the day of testing, it is not accumulative. The permanent percentage isn't added to each subsequent test. The tanks do relax if left in the well overnight you can see the permanet reading shrink. No harm in the long term.
How does this work with a let’s say a FABER hot galvanized steel with SP13488 specification? Is it tested the same way or do all galvanized cylinders done differently and only look at the REE as being pass fail?
Faber Hot dip gal. tanks are now coming into their first hydro testing. As of the current date Faber has not published any special testing procedures other than the 10% rule. I suspect as testers fail these tanks Faber will petition DOT just like ( Worthington & PST) for special testing using REE and multiple pretest. Galvanized cylinders have a false fail on first and sometimes second test, this is why special procedures must be applied. I've made several inquiries about this issue with Faber Galvanized tanks, so far nothing.
Faber Hot dip gal. tanks are now coming into their first hydro testing. As of the current date Faber has not published any special testing procedures other than the 10% rule. I suspect as testers fail these tanks Faber will petition DOT just like ( Worthington & PST) for special testing using REE and multiple pretest. Galvanized cylinders have a false fail on first and sometimes second test, this is why special procedures must be applied. I've made several inquiries about this issue with Faber Galvanized tanks, so far nothing.
What is the total cost of the equipment needed to conduct the hydrostatic test and what are the certifications needed to conduct those test? Thank you.
Over pressurizing is not a good practice regardless of steel or aluminum, it can lead to metal fatigue. All tanks are elastic and will flex while filling, hydro testing is designed to catch metal fatigued/ weaken tanks before a catastrophic failure. I do believe over pressuring tanks can shorten its lifespan by causing metal fatigue. Thanks for watching!
Can you do an identical video with a LP steel tank showing the REE and the Plus stamp? It seems to be a mystery to many dive shops still. Thanks. Donate for a Dream
Yes, I have in mind to show steel hydro test. PST & Worthington tanks require multiple test versus single test on aluminum. July is busy with lobster season around the corner, but I will put a video together as soon as possible.
Tank valves are torqued to 60 ft. lbs. , however the hydro adaptor doesn't require torque. A leak will be easily detectable when pressurizing the cylinder, mainly because the machine won't build pressure.
The test results don't give life expectancy, however the percentage of expansion can give a clue as to the metal fatigue. For example a typical result for normal used tanks is anywhere from less than 1 % to 4 or 5 %. when approaching 8% to 9% is plausible conclude the tanks has had heavy use, 10% is a fail.
I only test scuba tanks, 3AL, 3AA, 3A and Special Permit tanks. SCBA tanks are commonly used by fire fighters, paint ball & air riffles. The testing procedure is basically the same except for the stamping. SCBA are not stamped, they adhere a dated label with resin.
Tanks have different test pressures general rule is 5/3 of working pressure, for example 3000psi, test pressure is 5000psi 2400 psi, test pressure is 4000 psi 3442 psi, test pressure is 5250 psi
@@scubatechkeylargo so if it’s at 5000 psi. Is there a range you are allowed to go up to? For example 5200? This is interesting and thank you for replying
5000 is the actual test pressure, the only reason to go above is for re-test due to some mishap during the test. The re-test is 10% more which would be 5500 psi.
I think in the United kingdom scuba tanks can only have a 3 year test,, I have a 300 bar tank that I use for refilling filling my air rifle,, removable air tank up with compressed air,, but my 300 bar scuba tank has to be marked with a prominent sticker saying,, ""for serifs use only"",, and it can then stay in test for 5 years,, but the stupid part is,, the 500cc x 300 bar air bottle that screws to my air rifle,, never need to be retested!,, maybe highly compressed air hand grenades,, dont count as being dangers!,, but the sure go with one hell of a bang,, if you shoot one with a 308 Winchester rifle,, now I can see were the film makes got the idea of using a compressed air scuba bottle,, to blow up JAW'S,, because it work's!
That's good to know about tanks in the UK, I'm not totally familiar with regulations in the UK. Compressed air tanks are safe unless put under unintended use, such as a 308 round. LOL Thanks for the comment.
well, now i know how the neck of my tank got cracked, im thinking all this testing is just doing more harm than good. its like, do you change your oil and then drive like its a racecar
Yeah, I was literally just watching and was thinking the same thing. I went to the comments to see if anyone else was wondering how hard it is on these tanks, just to have it tested. I am trying to research tanks for paintball and pcp air rifles. I know the carbon fiber paint ball tanks are given a life span of 15 years, but I feel like getting them tested every 5 years is harder on them than just being careful with how you use them. And all the things I read on forums say they have never heard of a carbon tank failure in the field. Maybe a cheap regulator failure but never a tank. I read about a place purposely gouging a tank 50% through the side and filling it to 13,000 psi before it failed . But I don't think they are even catastrophic failures. I think it's more of a slow leak, and maybe the fibers start to unravel. I just think if you take care of them and not have them filled by amateurs that dont filter the water out or fill them up fast, they shouldn't have a catastrophic failure. No one will ever admit it, though.
DOT in the US believes every 5 years is good, our tanks are 3000 to 3500 psi at max working pressure. The tanks in the UK may be at higher working pressure, therefore 3 year hydros might be cautious.
Thanks for sharing this information. Very informative and thorough, well presented.
Glad it was helpful!
That was very informative, I really like how you explained everything and what you fill out on the paperwork afterwards, thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the comment.
What about making a video to show us around your workshop and your workbench please? It will be most interesting to see how your organize your tools, workbench and workflow around the bench.
Thank you for your efforts in educating the diving community.
Sounds like a good video topic, I will work on it.
Thanks for watching.
Did a TON of these in the mid 80's ..our shop serviced a lot of shops in Palm Beach County .. The lid I had needed to be screwed down ..didn't have those quick release's you have ... I used a pipette scale to read the expansion ..scary sometimes when the pressure is nearing it highest point ...never had one give way thou ..we didn't have the stamp most have ..I had to stamp all 4 of them B3-83 I think (long time ago) ..our drying system was a tank rack with pvc plumbing we used a vacuum cleaner to blow the air and put it outside so the suns heat would help ...This is where I began my Scuba Carer ..coming from being an Auto/Truck Mechanic ... Memories ..Good Video ..I like the scale better than the pipette ....
Yes I started with Burette tubes to read water expansion, the scale is much better. They also have a pneumatic closure for lids now, it's about 3,000 bucks, one day I 'll break down and buy it.
I have my tanks from 80's aluminum not used after 1990. Kept in dry storage. Can they be tested and used for diving. Tks
Most educational. In the UK if the tank is used for SCUBA it must be (like yourselves) tested every 5 years but the regulator has to be tested every two years. Even if the tank is used for an airgun, the bottle has to be 5 year tested and no shop will fill it if is not stamped with the current validity from and to dates. Carbon fibre bottles are deemed unusable after 10 years whether they pass the HS test or not.
I don't see many tanks with DOT only approval most I dealt with have TC as well nice setup BTW
wow. Thanks a million Angel. Excellent explanation.
Glad to see you enjoyed the video, Thanks for the comment.
Great video. Well explained.
Glad to hear you thoughts about the video, I have many more to come, currently in summer madness with little time to spare. Thanks
Outstanding video. Good job sir.
Thank you kindly! Thanks for watching.
Very informative and fully explained video thanks
Thanks for the comment and for watching my channel!
Thanks for the video. Does expanding the tank like that weaken it over time?
There's no proof of hydro test weakling cylinders, however excessive hot fills has proven to be detrimental to the integrity to the cylinder. Thanks for watching.
Good video! Thanks for making it
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching.
An honest days work keeping divers safe 👍
Thanks for the comment.
Thanks, I always wondered what it was
Happy to help, most divers have an idea what hydro test does, but rarely do they get to see it in action.
Nice job regards from chile 🇨🇱
Thank you for watching.
Thanks for the informative video.
I am here trying get a better understanding how all this works.
Also I'm dabbling in a different application,. PCP for air rifles.
Just purchased a carbon fiber over Aluminum tank.
I have my own compressor and Have had an old retired tank laying around still holding air(Scott scba)
But I will not add pressure to it at this point until I have it hydro'd (if it can be be done)
The tank exterior is fine visually and I know that's as far as it goes.
Reason I'm here again is Safety,.
not sure if it matters, my tanks stay indoors and are not banged around.
The whole 15 year thing... I'm trying to grasp,. I've seen tanks 40 yrs old holding pressure, Now that being said they could be a grenade with the pin pulled or they could last longer than I'm around(I Don't know)That's why I'm searching this information and not Just here.
I'm not fond of the idea of having a hole drilled in my tank (Just Because Of A Date)and no test actually performed to justify.
And I may be wrong in my thinking, and if I find that out I will change my thoughts on this.
Closing thoughts: I know folks way smarter than me designed this format/platform.
The other 2(TWO) factors is Safety And MONEY,. and that's what I am trying to separate if that's even possible.
Now this new tank I'm getting, I will be installing the Valve and will be regularly inspecting the interior and will know how this tanks full history will be.
The Scott SCBA tank I have went into burning buildings and sure it had some abuse including drops and being banged around.
And again I have it Idle at this point. But it's a bit of history to me.
Thank you again.
SCBA bottles are made from thin aluminum shell wrapped with carbon fiber and resin finish for strength.
The lifespan of 15 years is designated by the manufacture, they believe after 15 years these bottles can weaken and no longer be trustworthy to hold pressure. These bottles easily damage, any exposed fibers is considered a weak stop. Thanks for watching... be safe.
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Very good video, would like to have this in Sierra Leone to test my 25 tanks, Faber and Luxfer, plus we have 50 L volume for Surface supply, we are a danish Commercial diving company in west Africa, no tests available, I do Visuals, will now buy more test equipment and get a Water Jacket and the rest to pressurise the waterfilled tank.
I glad you enjoyed the video, I have many more in mind, it's lobster season in Florida and not enough time at the moment.
Hi, how are you? I would like to buy the connection between the jacket cover and the cylinder, where I can find it. THANK YOU😊
@@ibrahimmohamed2016 Hydro-Test Products is one vendor I’ll look for more can and get back to you.
great video, thanks👍
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching.
You might want to invest in a Inspection Scope for Cylinder Neck Internal Thread Examination, it's impossible to see microscopic hairline cracks in the threads without it.... it's almost like guessing when you use a mirror.
You are correct, hairline cracks are easy to overlook. I do have 3 additional viewers other than a mirror. Optiviewer, Optical Plus scope and Visual Plus 3 (eddy current machine). When I teach VIP Inspectors and Hydro Testers to locate necks cracks I show them how to use all 3. Currently I have 6 tanks with confirmed neck cracks so my students can practice. I remember when these cracks first started to develop in the 80's we would spot them because they were leaking during fill, by 1989 Luxfer ceased the use 6351 aluminum the culprit of the SLC. We come a long way since. Soon I'll be posting more videos, just in the middle of summer madness with little spare time. Thanks for watching.
I knew there was an elastic allowance but didn't know about the permanent one. Given that each test permanently expands the tank a little is there consideration of how many times the tank has been tested? Ie does a tank that's been tested 10 times have the same permitted level of permanent expansion as a new tank?
Cylinders have the same permanent expansion allowance regardless of the number of hydro tests.
Thanks for watching
@@scubatechkeylargo Does the amount of permanent expansion each test taper off over time or is it constant. If constant that would seem to make the test somewhat destructive in the long term.
With each test the permanent expansion is for the day of testing, it is not accumulative.
The permanent percentage isn't added to each subsequent test. The tanks do relax if left in the well overnight you can see the permanet reading shrink. No harm in the long term.
How does this work with a let’s say a FABER hot galvanized steel with SP13488 specification? Is it tested the same way or do all galvanized cylinders done differently and only look at the REE as being pass fail?
I would like to know the same thing
@@dawktah2680I ran into a CONDEMNED issue with my FABER that has a born date of 1/19.
Faber Hot dip gal. tanks are now coming into their first hydro testing. As of the current date Faber has not published any special testing procedures other than the 10% rule. I suspect as testers fail these tanks Faber will petition DOT just like ( Worthington & PST) for special testing using REE and multiple pretest. Galvanized cylinders have a false fail on first and sometimes second test, this is why special procedures must be applied. I've made several inquiries about this issue with Faber Galvanized tanks, so far nothing.
Faber Hot dip gal. tanks are now coming into their first hydro testing. As of the current date Faber has not published any special testing procedures other than the 10% rule. I suspect as testers fail these tanks Faber will petition DOT just like ( Worthington & PST) for special testing using REE and multiple pretest. Galvanized cylinders have a false fail on first and sometimes second test, this is why special procedures must be applied. I've made several inquiries about this issue with Faber Galvanized tanks, so far nothing.
Your tank most likely had a false fail, I've seen this many times with galvanized steel.
Angel, my local hydro tester says that all stickers including the manufacturers must be removed. Have you heard of that?
That’s correct old vip and decals should be removed especially if corrosion is developing underneath.
Some shops are really strict about that.
What is the total cost of the equipment needed to conduct the hydrostatic test and what are the certifications needed to conduct those test? Thank you.
You can get those answers from Hydro-Test the company which sells and trains users on their equipment.
So does over pressurizing the tank actually shorten its lifespan ?
Over pressurizing is not a good practice regardless of steel or aluminum, it can lead to metal fatigue. All tanks are elastic and will flex while filling, hydro testing is designed to catch metal fatigued/ weaken tanks before a catastrophic failure. I do believe over pressuring tanks can shorten its lifespan by causing metal fatigue. Thanks for watching!
@@scubatechkeylargo thank you for your response . However my question was about pressure testing to 5/3 of capacity
or over pressure during the test
No evidence of hydro testing leading to shorten life span on cylinders, could be why it's every 5 years and not more often.
@@scubatechkeylargo thank you
I was just curious
Can you do an identical video with a LP steel tank showing the REE and the Plus stamp? It seems to be a mystery to many dive shops still. Thanks.
Donate for a Dream
Yes, I have in mind to show steel hydro test. PST & Worthington tanks require multiple test versus single test on aluminum. July is busy with lobster season around the corner, but I will put a video together as soon as possible.
@@scubatechkeylargo do you mean the round out process for the galvanized tanks?
Isn't it advisable to use torque wrench instead of a adjustable to tight the adaptor
Tank valves are torqued to 60 ft. lbs. , however the hydro adaptor doesn't require torque. A leak will be easily detectable when pressurizing the cylinder, mainly because the machine won't build pressure.
THANKYOU SIR
Thanks to you for watching!
Is there any way you can tell how long the tank may last or how old it is by the hydro test statistics?
The test results don't give life expectancy, however the percentage of expansion can give a clue as to the metal fatigue. For example a typical result for normal used tanks is anywhere from less than 1 % to 4 or 5 %. when approaching 8% to 9% is plausible conclude the tanks has had heavy use, 10% is a fail.
Do you do scba tanks?
I only test scuba tanks, 3AL, 3AA, 3A and Special Permit tanks.
SCBA tanks are commonly used by fire fighters, paint ball & air riffles.
The testing procedure is basically the same except for the stamping. SCBA are not stamped, they adhere a dated label with resin.
What is the max psi you can test this to?
Tanks have different test pressures general rule is 5/3 of working pressure, for example 3000psi, test pressure is 5000psi
2400 psi, test pressure is 4000 psi
3442 psi, test pressure is 5250 psi
@@scubatechkeylargo so if it’s at 5000 psi. Is there a range you are allowed to go up to? For example 5200? This is interesting and thank you for replying
5000 is the actual test pressure, the only reason to go above is for re-test due to some mishap during the test. The re-test is 10% more which would be 5500 psi.
@@scubatechkeylargo thanks for explaining this. Very interesting.
I would redo a visual inspection of the neck for crack after the test.
you are correct, a neck inspection after hydro is procedure prior to locking the valve and filling.
Australia every year
I think in the United kingdom scuba tanks can only have a 3 year test,, I have a 300 bar tank that I use for refilling filling my air rifle,, removable air tank up with compressed air,, but my 300 bar scuba tank has to be marked with a prominent sticker saying,, ""for serifs use only"",, and it can then stay in test for 5 years,, but the stupid part is,, the 500cc x 300 bar air bottle that screws to my air rifle,, never need to be retested!,, maybe highly compressed air hand grenades,, dont count as being dangers!,, but the sure go with one hell of a bang,, if you shoot one with a 308 Winchester rifle,, now I can see were the film makes got the idea of using a compressed air scuba bottle,, to blow up JAW'S,, because it work's!
That's good to know about tanks in the UK, I'm not totally familiar with regulations in the UK. Compressed air tanks are safe unless put under unintended use, such as a 308 round. LOL Thanks for the comment.
well, now i know how the neck of my tank got cracked, im thinking all this testing is just doing more harm than good. its like, do you change your oil and then drive like its a racecar
Yeah, I was literally just watching and was thinking the same thing. I went to the comments to see if anyone else was wondering how hard it is on these tanks, just to have it tested. I am trying to research tanks for paintball and pcp air rifles. I know the carbon fiber paint ball tanks are given a life span of 15 years, but I feel like getting them tested every 5 years is harder on them than just being careful with how you use them. And all the things I read on forums say they have never heard of a carbon tank failure in the field. Maybe a cheap regulator failure but never a tank. I read about a place purposely gouging a tank 50% through the side and filling it to 13,000 psi before it failed . But I don't think they are even catastrophic failures. I think it's more of a slow leak, and maybe the fibers start to unravel. I just think if you take care of them and not have them filled by amateurs that dont filter the water out or fill them up fast, they shouldn't have a catastrophic failure. No one will ever admit it, though.
USA 5 years
UK 3 years
Australia 1 year
Now is this a money making scheme or are we being too cautious here in Australia?
DOT in the US believes every 5 years is good, our tanks are 3000 to 3500 psi at max working pressure. The tanks in the UK may be at higher working pressure, therefore 3 year hydros might be cautious.
So why do dive shops charge for a hydro AND a VIP??????
When VIP is included in hydro and is of lesser value ?
Greed. Simply a systematic rip-off.