3:48 This is a completely preventable failure. Arcing to the chassis of the machine (or anything around the high voltage terminal) should not be an available path ever. This is easily achieved with adequate insulation. Most wire insulation you've encountered doesn't have a dielectric rating above about 600V so a typical solution is silicone. All bare wire connected to one of these hobby grade laser tubes should have a dielectric protection of at least 50,000 volts between it and anything it could arc to (including other insulated wires since this is enough voltage to arc through rubber and other non typical materials for electric current) you can treat 100% silicone which you can get at your local hardware store as having a dielectric strength of 10,000V/mm so bury that terminal in at least half a centimeter of silicone in every direction without any bubbles or holes and it will never be able to arc. I don't mean to fault you or really go hard on you, just want everyone to know how to be safe with these devices. As a side note you are correct that high voltage kills because only high voltage power sources are capable of delivering enough amperage to stop your heart. Better to say the root cause than talk about amperage and confuse those less knowledgeable. Also yes these arcs going through a person would not be pretty and whoever gets shocked by it should count themselves lucky to be alive
ive wanted to get one of these k40 lasers for yrs but have never gotten around to picking one up cause i always decided on getting a different type of machine instead so i got 12+ printers cnc router, lathe, mill and i did end up getting a diode laser engraver but c02 is on a different level so its always been in the back of my head as something i really want to get at some point. i still want one but im at the point where im more willing to spend way more to get something that is alittle more put together an dont require me having to tinker to get to work out of the box or at least has more direction when getting it setup an going but i dont know if anything has come out since the last time i looked 3+ years ago or more probably, i know i see a couple machines advertising but im pretty sure they are just diode lasers an if i spend that kinda money i want it to at least be a c02 laser so i can cut clear plexiglass.
Thanks, this is helpful. I guess a well-designed PSU could serve the function of a GFI (or RCCB) by ensuring no imbalance in current between the hot and cold ends of the tube. If more current going out than coming back, there's lightning somewhere! Do you have any sense of how the connection internally to the tube anode failed? Seems to be open-circuit, how would that happen?
My tube did the exact same thing, started losing power, got burned just like yours and then started arcing real bad. I still did get zapped with it unplugged and turned off when I was removing the wire to replace the tube.
Mine just did this sadly. At the worst time as well. It was 6 years old and I used it daily And I had the same thing with earthing and being in a new factory with all new breakers etc.
hello i hope someone can help me with the problem my machine have, its a k40 laser machine, and it shoots a double laser bean (2 dots) from the laser bulb intead of 1, i check the mirrors and everything but the problem comes directly from the laser bulb, in the end of the bulb there is a metal cilinder that is conected to a wire, and i saw that the light bean hits that little cilinder and maybe it makes the bean becomes "double" i dont knoiw what to do anymore and im really sad because i was starting to sell products making by me on the web.
Thanks for the vid, maybe I missed it but did you discuss prevention techniques or alternative add-ons we can use to prevent this type of damage? Possible cause that this happened?
Your welcome! Also as covered in the video it is impossible to prevent, your placing a high voltage sources in a metal box and if the impendence is low enough you will have this happen. Now people will say put it in a plastic box! Well that could worse as this works a bit like a faraday cage, whereas a plastic box will likely find you as the ground instead.
@@DIY3DTECHcom I heard that in the video but wasn’t sure what to make of it. I find it hard to think if we understand what causes this we can’t insure it doesn’t happen. I’m sure I’m ignorant. Thanks for your videos and feedback.
Hi, thx for the information, very good. Was thinking of getting k40 but I think you might’ve changed my mind. I don’t think I want to take the chance with my limited experience. Thanks again.
Your welcome, again not to scare but inform because as you can see this is one of the possible things you need to deal with. Also the tube is a consumable so you need to be prepared to replace it every year or so...
Good safety information, I know first hand what it feels like to get shocked by 25,000 volts thanks to a careless coworker who left the second anode of a, then state of the art, color TV laying loose on the metal work bench.
Ouch! Yes been there too, many years was fixing a TV (in the days you could fix them) and my hand slipped on the on the high voltage probe and the tip ended up in my neck! I was lucky!
Ouch so basically you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. interesting that the RCCB didn’t cut out. To me if 20KV is going to the case then it should really trigger a safety device inside the appliance if the k40 won’t trigger GFCI or RCCB externally when it fails. It’s interesting video and I’m glad my decision to not buy the cheapest laser cutter was not made up until now 😆
It will arch all day long and not trip a breaker, keep in mind that is what it does (creates an arc). Also the PS is limited so just because it goes to a short, it wont over drive it...
@@DIY3DTECHcom true but if you had a ground on there which had a voltage sensor tolerant for 20kv it could detect it and cut power safely. Its not impossible it would just need done in the device it is detectable because it will flow through the tube normally and if it fails and grounds through the case the vsensor would detect this and a relay could lose power. E.G a shield around the failure points with a sensor on it for any voltage, any voltage its failed and wont turn on the power until its reset manually after resetting a latch The latency would be the real problem
With a GFCI and general arc detector this is not what I’m proposing. A dumb i2c voltage sensor up to 20kv and a diode so the current can only flow to ground not from the ground into the device
Hi After watching many of your videos I purchased a 40k laser cutter and have just finished setting it up. I am having a problem with the laser tube and can't find an exact answer online. First try , it fired OK and I was able to do a test cut. However, The next time I turned it on 24h latter , no laser was coming out of the laser tube to mirror 1. (it was glowing purple inside -but not exiting) I covered the laser with paper to see if it had somehow become miss aligned , but am not getting a mark on it at all. (also nothing has been moved only switched off) Also when I turn the mA knob, the mA meter jumps back and forth alot from 5mA to 15mA . (could this be a sign that the laser has a problem?) (also the beam inside the tube pulses a little when I press the test button -like its faint for the first second then turns more solid after) And when trying to see why it was not meeting the mirror, there was a crackle bang, and it sounded like the laser tube shorted at the positive end.(at this point I might have turned up the mA dial trying to get a burn mark on the test tape - and the build up of power had to go somewhere ) I tried another time and I can still see light going through the tube, but it's still not meating the end to exit to mirror 1. Is this a degassed tube? Is it safe? I really hope you can give me some help on this matter. Thank you and keep up the great channel.
Im sire you are over simplifying things for safety. But hv alone obviously has nothing to do with how dangerous electrical energy is. The correct frequency, regardless of V, will do nothing to out bodies.
And this is another reason I would never get a k40. I don't want to have to reengineer it to have a ”pretty decent laser engraver” (k40 fans words not mine)
"Current kills; voltage doesn't" is such a misleading meme. Short circuit a AA battery and you can pull several amps. That's a lethal current, those things must be deadly!
An AA battery may supply several amps to a short circuit... possible fire risk, but 1.5 volts cannot supply more than a few milliamps through your body, the skin resistance is too high. Basic ohms law, you would probably not feel anything less than 30 or 40 volts (unless on a wet part of the body like your tongue)
You put down China, but this is something that could happen to any laser not just China one. I've seen shabby products come from all over. Just take a look at American cars. Maybe we should look at the ethics that the collages teaches the CEO of companies.
3:48
This is a completely preventable failure. Arcing to the chassis of the machine (or anything around the high voltage terminal) should not be an available path ever. This is easily achieved with adequate insulation. Most wire insulation you've encountered doesn't have a dielectric rating above about 600V so a typical solution is silicone. All bare wire connected to one of these hobby grade laser tubes should have a dielectric protection of at least 50,000 volts between it and anything it could arc to (including other insulated wires since this is enough voltage to arc through rubber and other non typical materials for electric current) you can treat 100% silicone which you can get at your local hardware store as having a dielectric strength of 10,000V/mm so bury that terminal in at least half a centimeter of silicone in every direction without any bubbles or holes and it will never be able to arc. I don't mean to fault you or really go hard on you, just want everyone to know how to be safe with these devices.
As a side note you are correct that high voltage kills because only high voltage power sources are capable of delivering enough amperage to stop your heart. Better to say the root cause than talk about amperage and confuse those less knowledgeable. Also yes these arcs going through a person would not be pretty and whoever gets shocked by it should count themselves lucky to be alive
Rest in Peace. Your helpful advice & videos will be greatly missed
Great video 👍
Keep up the great work you do 🤟
Thanks, will do!
Thanks!
ive wanted to get one of these k40 lasers for yrs but have never gotten around to picking one up cause i always decided on getting a different type of machine instead so i got 12+ printers cnc router, lathe, mill and i did end up getting a diode laser engraver but c02 is on a different level so its always been in the back of my head as something i really want to get at some point. i still want one but im at the point where im more willing to spend way more to get something that is alittle more put together an dont require me having to tinker to get to work out of the box or at least has more direction when getting it setup an going but i dont know if anything has come out since the last time i looked 3+ years ago or more probably, i know i see a couple machines advertising but im pretty sure they are just diode lasers an if i spend that kinda money i want it to at least be a c02 laser so i can cut clear plexiglass.
Thanks, this is helpful. I guess a well-designed PSU could serve the function of a GFI (or RCCB) by ensuring no imbalance in current between the hot and cold ends of the tube. If more current going out than coming back, there's lightning somewhere!
Do you have any sense of how the connection internally to the tube anode failed? Seems to be open-circuit, how would that happen?
I wonder if an arch fault breaker (instead of a normal GFI) would have kicked off when this happened.
My tube did the exact same thing, started losing power, got burned just like yours and then started arcing real bad. I still did get zapped with it unplugged and turned off when I was removing the wire to replace the tube.
If you got zapped, check your ground as something seems to be amiss there...
Mine just did this sadly. At the worst time as well. It was 6 years old and I used it daily
And I had the same thing with earthing and being in a new factory with all new breakers etc.
hello i hope someone can help me with the problem my machine have, its a k40 laser machine, and it shoots a double laser bean (2 dots) from the laser bulb intead of 1, i check the mirrors and everything but the problem comes directly from the laser bulb, in the end of the bulb there is a metal cilinder that is conected to a wire, and i saw that the light bean hits that little cilinder and maybe it makes the bean becomes "double" i dont knoiw what to do anymore and im really sad because i was starting to sell products making by me on the web.
ayni probleml bende de var ve laserim daha yeni...problem cozuldu mu ...cozduysen nasil cozdun..tesekkurler
Thanks for the vid, maybe I missed it but did you discuss prevention techniques or alternative add-ons we can use to prevent this type of damage? Possible cause that this happened?
Your welcome! Also as covered in the video it is impossible to prevent, your placing a high voltage sources in a metal box and if the impendence is low enough you will have this happen. Now people will say put it in a plastic box! Well that could worse as this works a bit like a faraday cage, whereas a plastic box will likely find you as the ground instead.
@@DIY3DTECHcom I heard that in the video but wasn’t sure what to make of it. I find it hard to think if we understand what causes this we can’t insure it doesn’t happen. I’m sure I’m ignorant. Thanks for your videos and feedback.
Hi, thx for the information, very good. Was thinking of getting k40 but I think you might’ve changed my mind. I don’t think I want to take the chance with my limited experience. Thanks again.
Your welcome, again not to scare but inform because as you can see this is one of the possible things you need to deal with. Also the tube is a consumable so you need to be prepared to replace it every year or so...
Good safety information, I know first hand what it feels like to get shocked by 25,000 volts thanks to a careless coworker who left the second anode of a, then state of the art, color TV laying loose on the metal work bench.
Ouch! Yes been there too, many years was fixing a TV (in the days you could fix them) and my hand slipped on the on the high voltage probe and the tip ended up in my neck! I was lucky!
Thx for quick video 🧐
Any time!
Ouch so basically you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. interesting that the RCCB didn’t cut out. To me if 20KV is going to the case then it should really trigger a safety device inside the appliance if the k40 won’t trigger GFCI or RCCB externally when it fails.
It’s interesting video and I’m glad my decision to not buy the cheapest laser cutter was not made up until now 😆
It will arch all day long and not trip a breaker, keep in mind that is what it does (creates an arc). Also the PS is limited so just because it goes to a short, it wont over drive it...
@@DIY3DTECHcom true but if you had a ground on there which had a voltage sensor tolerant for 20kv it could detect it and cut power safely. Its not impossible it would just need done in the device it is detectable because it will flow through the tube normally and if it fails and grounds through the case the vsensor would detect this and a relay could lose power.
E.G a shield around the failure points with a sensor on it for any voltage, any voltage its failed and wont turn on the power until its reset manually after resetting a latch
The latency would be the real problem
With a GFCI and general arc detector this is not what I’m proposing. A dumb i2c voltage sensor up to 20kv and a diode so the current can only flow to ground not from the ground into the device
Hi
After watching many of your videos
I purchased a 40k laser cutter and have just finished setting it up.
I am having a problem with the laser tube and can't find an exact answer online.
First try , it fired OK and I was able to do a test cut.
However,
The next time I turned it on 24h latter , no laser was coming out of the laser tube to mirror 1. (it was glowing purple inside -but not exiting)
I covered the laser with paper to see if it had somehow become miss aligned , but am not getting a mark on it at all. (also nothing has been moved only switched off)
Also when I turn the mA knob, the mA meter jumps back and forth alot from 5mA to 15mA . (could this be a sign that the laser has a problem?) (also the beam inside the tube pulses a little when I press the test button -like its faint for the first second then turns more solid after)
And when trying to see why it was not meeting the mirror, there was a crackle bang, and it sounded like the laser tube shorted at the positive end.(at this point I might have turned up the mA dial trying to get a burn mark on the test tape - and the build up of power had to go somewhere )
I tried another time and I can still see light going through the tube, but it's still not meating the end to exit to mirror 1.
Is this a degassed tube?
Is it safe?
I really hope you can give me some help on this matter.
Thank you and keep up the great channel.
up same issue
Im sire you are over simplifying things for safety. But hv alone obviously has nothing to do with how dangerous electrical energy is.
The correct frequency, regardless of V, will do nothing to out bodies.
And this is another reason I would never get a k40. I don't want to have to reengineer it to have a ”pretty decent laser engraver” (k40 fans words not mine)
Yes as I have said and demonstrated out of the box these required a fair amount of modification if you with to use them safely and effectively
"Current kills; voltage doesn't" is such a misleading meme. Short circuit a AA battery and you can pull several amps. That's a lethal current, those things must be deadly!
An AA battery may supply several amps to a short circuit... possible fire risk, but 1.5 volts cannot supply more than a few milliamps through your body, the skin resistance is too high. Basic ohms law, you would probably not feel anything less than 30 or 40 volts (unless on a wet part of the body like your tongue)
@@zebo-the-fat That explains all those times I didn't die while changing torch batteries.
You put down China, but this is something that could happen to any laser not just China one. I've seen shabby products come from all over. Just take a look at American cars. Maybe we should look at the ethics that the collages teaches the CEO of companies.
note to self don't buy a k40 laser machine!!!