Is a $17 DVD player better than a $600 CD Player? You may be surprised! Sony DVD vs Rotel CD11ii
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
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0:00 Start
0:41 Intro
1:22 CDs are Cheap
2:38 Sponsored Content Squarespace
3:51 It's all about the DAC
5:50 Rotel CD11 mk ii
7:38 On the Back
8:29 The Remote
9:35 $17 DVD Player vs $600 CD Player
10:20 CD Transport vs CD Player and Final Thoughts
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Who does the clocking of the music? The DAC or the CD Transport? Some DACs also resample the timing for the SPDIF input, right...?
I you believe that you could hear a difference between the digital signal from those 2 players, then you should stop making videos and find something else to do, as your credibility just got cancelled! I couldn't stop laughing at your ridiculous idea!
One good thing that we can say about the Sony dvd player, is that its power cord is secured really well to the player.
Yes. In the spec sheet, it clearly states that the cord connection is capable of withstanding 1g with a variance of .9g.
Randy, will you please do a video twirling the Rotel by its cord, just like you did with the Sony cd player? Would like that comparison of the 2 products...
@@danlahl ha. Well that one has a removable plug
Which is annoying being swung back and forth repeatedly!🙄
@@sand0077To be fair, though, it’s not as annoying as deciphering 4th-grade grammar, having just made a direct comparison.
“They charge you more for less features, that is the audiofile way.” So funny.
This is the way
Porsche does this also.
I am appalled to learn that there is a $650 CD player that does not support gapless playback. It's almost hard to believe that could occur.
It seems to fail to meet the most basic 'cd player standard'. Gapless playback has been a standard feature of CDs and players since waaaaaay back when.
I have Marantz cd6007 and there is no gapless playback either. Call me old fashioned, but I don't like that feature. I like to have pause between tracks.
@@crodoc69 I don't even view that as a feature... Not having it seems like a huge oversight to me. Imagine listening to Dark Side of the Moon and having it interrupted with a couple seconds of silence several times. Yuck!
@@crodoc69some songs are ment to follow gap less. Eg pink Floyd the wall
@@tubinonyou @voltare2amstereo
If you want to enjoy real Pink Floyd you should then listen on first press vinyl. Everything on CD is remastered. And vinyl has gaps. That's how Pink Floyd made their songs and albums. And concerts.
I was fortunate to find a 2004 Pioneer DV-47ai player at a neighborhood yard sale last year for just $10. Barely a scratch on it. I had to buy a remote on eBay for $20, so all in I'm still only at $30. It plays DVDs, burned discs, CDs and even SACDs. It features Burr/Brown DACs and makes even regular run of the mill CDs sound incredible.
Nice find dude
Dude! There’s a scratch? I’d have talked them down five cents.
@@SyzygyNoon it seemed rude, LOL
@@TheAgeOfAnalogYou should have seen my Old Man at a yard sale, nothing was too rude for him
Those old Pioneers were great. I still have a 757ai in a second system and it sounds grand as a transport and great playing SACDs. I also picked up an ancient 717 to use as a transport for about £30. Those things were built like tanks and have a dual laser system for playing cds, rather than relying on the dvd transport.
I still buy all my music on CD, immediately rip them to FLAC, and load the files onto my hard drive, phone, and car stereo. Save the physical CD as back-up media.
Me, too. You should try Plex. Leave the files on a single server somewhere (or your computer) and stream them anywhere you want just like any other streaming service. The best of both worlds.
I think so that is the best solution.
I'm a millennial born in 1985, and I still listen to CDs. In my room, I have a Marantz CD5004 hooked up to an old Harman/Kardon HK3480 stereo receiver, and not only that, I take good care of my CDs, with putting them back in their cases when done listening to them. I don't leave them out in the hot sun or anything, nor do I leave them in the car.
Oh yeh, and I may still be learning as a young audiophile, but GEE, ask me if i'm surprised that the Rotel trounced the Sony DVD player.
I bought a "high quality" Sony Blu-Ray player a few weeks ago to mostly play CDs on my home office system. I'm running the coaxial output into a Fosi Audio DAC-Q4 and it sounds pretty darn good to my ears, certainly more than good enough for spinning CDs while I work. 👍
It's amazing that when you connect something like the Sony to a DAC it becomes a photo-finish with a product like the Rotel. Mating the Sony to an SMSL-SU1 would create an amazing system for $100. That's astounding. This would make an interesting test, get a Wiim Mini and connect it optically to the SU1 (running Amazon Music HD) and connect the Sony to the coax input of the SU1. Play the same track and compare the sound. I'd bet it's a lot closer than you'd imagine.
That’s sounds like a fun afternoon for a nerd like us! I have a WiiM too and I think I’ll give that a shot😊
I mean what do you expect? There is not much gain to be had in the digital part of the cd player. Obviously it's going to sound the same using the same dac.
The popular commercial music doesn't really deserve
I did not want just a CD player, I wanted player that did SD Audio as well. So I bought the Sony UBP-X700/M, which is a 4K Blu-Ray player/Streamer/DVD/CD/SA CD player for less than $200. Love you videos Randy!
I'm planning of going that route, any complaint with the player? does it have gapless?
@@jeremi96221 I have X800... No complaints per se... but there are few things worth to mention. Digital out does uncompressed 24/192 but only in 2 channels. If you want to play multichannel SACDs you have to use HDMI. And if your AVR / processor does not support DSD through HDMI then you are "limited" to 24/176.4 PCM.
I don't use this player as a streamer.. but it's WiFi is not the strongest (or my unit is faulty?).
It doesn't have a display. So you have to have a TV (or PC) hooked up to it.
cheers
I've performed this test with a Sony UBP x800 4k Blu-ray player , using it as a CD transport only. It sounded as good as any CD player I've ever had.
I bought a 50 dollar Sony Blu ray player with only a coax out for this very purpose. Works great and sounds great.
Thanks! I love to listen to music, and I want equipment with quality in mind. I find myself on your channel constantly as you point me to things I don't feel bad about spending my money on. I hope you continue to bring people to that step a little higher than whatever is handed to them. This gear really helps to feel what the artist was trying to convey.
Always appreciate Randy's fun & cost-effective suggestions. I just picked up one of the recommended Sony players open box for around $13 (I resisted the urge to dangle the player by the cord)! Works great, but be aware this player has no front information display, so if you want to see track/time data (or adjust menu settings etc.) you have to connect the player to a TV/monitor.
Yes! Excellent point. ...no info displayed. Wonder if the info would appear on a Sony receiver.
Nice video Randy. I picked up a Sony DVD/CD player at Savers for $10. I'm running it through the DAC in my NuForce integrated, and it sounds pretty darn good. Not to mention, I can buy used (but like new) CDs at my local record store for $4 or $5. At some point, CDs may become cool again, and future hipsters will start buying them up.
The benefits of a dedicated CD player vs a DVD play is the basic operation. For example the DVD player takes a lot longer to read the CD and make it available to play, also the controls on DVD players are very minimal at best, because it’s designed for TV menu use and remote use only. On a dedicated CD player, the dis is available to play very quickly and you can quickly use the play and skip buttons before you leave the machine for your listening position. DVD players are also loud during play back (especially the cheap examples) so if you are listening to music playback at lower levels or quieter sections of the music, you can clearly hear the whirring in a loud annoying manner. I own the Rotel CD11 Tribute and I’m absolutely in love with the quality of the sound. If you love CDs (like I do) there is no substitute for a dedicated CD player.
Buy a decent quality CD transport and instead of putting money into a quality CD player put the money into a Nice DAC. Theoretically this should make you change your mind.
@@tango_gruI agree
@@tango_gru problem is, no one sells affordable cd transports, which is stupid. If you want to spend less than like 600++€ for just reading cds, you actually have to pay for DACs twice in most systems since most amps already have a DAC and so do most affordable cd players.
@@36424567254 if you a power amplifier instead of an integrated amplifier then you will always have a better and cheaper system. You will avoid one DAC more also.
Randy,
There is one factor affecting results from cheap DVD/CD players: How they deal with disc defects. Once a CD starts going wonky, the quality of the transport makes a lot of difference. A cheap one may mistrack horribly while a better one can play it without any problem. Also, there's the issue of CD/RW. Many cheap players can't deal with these, while a quality CD drive or transport has no problem.
Also keep in mind everyone that a Quality CD player will normally have Firmware updates available even when you buy a Brand New unit it is Always good to check. Yamaha Midrange CD players that Skip on some CDs are not Defective but need the latest update!
That's why I only rip CDs to Flac with Exact Audio Copy. You never know how much error correction the player or transport applies. It's amazing how many errors a cd player can mask by "guessing" the bits that it can't read correctly. It takes hundreds of those errors until you will actually hear a significant distortion or weird sound.
When you rip with EAC in secure mode, the drive reads every sector twice and in the event of a mismatch, keeps reading that sector until it gets a match. In the end, the result hashes are compared with two online databases. If you get positive matches from both databases, the chance of reading errors is basically zero.
The only downside of EAC secure mode is that it's rather slow on drives that buffer audio. And unfortunately, you can't really find any new DVD/Bluray drives anymore that don't buffer audio. I am lucky to still own two DVD burner that don't buffer audio, so I can rip with 20x speed in secure mode.
@@maximilianmustermann5763 Thanks. Very interesting!
@@maximilianmustermann5763 It doesn't "guess" any data, it's redundant data on the disc.
I bought that DVD player a few years ago to use as a CD transport. Worked great for that. Eventually replaced it with a Yamaha 5 Disc changer I found at a local goodwill. All I had to do was replace the belts and give it a thorough cleaning.
I've used thrift store CD players for years. Some used to be $80, and some used to be $300. If they have a digital out I grab it and hook it to my bifrost DAC. Pretty much every single one has sounded the same... they all sound great. I've found that my DAC is what makes the difference. Thanks for spreading the hack that I've been using. I've been yelling it from the top of mountains, but you have a larger "mountain" lol.
The key takeaway watching this video for me was the dramatic improvement in sound using the coaxial output of the player to the coaxial input of the preamp or integrated amp, and why doing that improves the sound. Thanks so much.
back then we had to use cds on a dvd player cuz there no way to listing to music on a tv back then now days we do lol
CDs are the best choice for the post apocalyptic lifestyle provided they don’t get melted and your player survives the EMP. Better enlarge the bunker though. A few thousand CD cases means less room for those delicious canned beans.
😂😂😂
keep it in a faraday cage and you're all good
Your bunker mates will thank you later for eating those beans😉
@@cheapaudioman How about a ferret cage instead? The ferrets can go build their own bunker.
No, a portable DAP with microsd card is
Coax out into a quality dac can sound amazingly good. I still listen to cd's from my Sony 400 disc cd/dvd/sacd changer into a SMSL dac. The sound quality is better than what I get listening to the same material on Qobuz.
I recently bought a Pioneer Elite DVD / SACD player. I use the coaxial output to connect into my Onkyo 7.2 receiver. I'm very satisfied with the sound quality just listening to CDs.
Big fan of records and CDs myself. Kind of enjoyed tapes too. I have a Philips DVD player that I picked up at goodwill for $5 that I used for testing and quickie setups. Back in the day we would have been delighted to have something like that for inexpensive high quality listening.
As a child growing up in the 80's I feel you on the nomenclature of CD player vs transport. Never heard the term until a couple years ago and just thought people were saying it wrong. And never bothered to look up the difference..... The more you know... hehehe
I use the Rotel CD player in one of my setups and I like it very much. One caution: the CD tray does retract automatically after a short time. That's great I guess if you are worried about leaving it open but not so great if you open the tray and then fiddle around a little bit deciding on the CD you want. I have managed to accidentally time it just wrong so that the tray clamped down on the CD just as I was sliding the CD in. No real damage but a little scary.
Also, I think you mentioned Cambridge Audio CD players. Perhaps they have changed but the six year old player I sometimes use is not gapless. It is great for 98 percent of the CD's I play but for 2 percent, like the last half of the Beatles' Abbey Road it's annoying.
I have the Rotel CD-11 Tribute. When I bought it from Crutchfield, the drawer closed automatically anywhere between 10 and 20 seconds after it was opened. It was different every time. I contacted Crutchfield, and they spoke to Rotel which said that wasn't normal. It's programmed to stay open for 1 minute. They took mine back and exchanged and the replacement is fine.
I had Marantz CD 6001 CD Player which has the same feature of automatic drawer closing. But I found this feature as a bit of a hassle, because it sometimes takes a while longer for us to decide which CD to play next.
Therefore this feature must be included as a switchable option.
@@melprophet1936 Interesting. I think the issue with mine is more like a minute. I'll have to check. Mine is from Crutchfield as well but I didn't think about sending it back. I am trying to cultivate the habit of deciding on what I want to play before opening the drawer.
Some of the Cambridge machines unfortunately don't play gaplessly, be aware.
I got to do an experiment with a really cool salesman at a hifi store back in the 90's. It was a $300 Sherwood Newcastle CD player vs a $2000 Krell CD player going into Krell pre and power amps & B&W Nautilus 804's & this was about mid 1990's. It was an amazing system. And once you equalized the line level out it became essentially impossible to discern the difference between them. And it wasn't just the 2 of us. Multiple customers came in and had the same reaction. We told them what was being done and they couldn't tell either and it was because the output of the Sherwood was using essentially the same AD converters. BTW, if you're wondering about the reason for equalizing line level comment, it's because the Krell had balanced XLR outputs. That's a whole other discussion. Essentially the balanced out output was at a higher voltate, but sonically the same.
But funny enough all players connected via digital out sound different, the biggest difference is when I use Panasonic BD player (mid range price, AKM DACs). The CD and DVD players sound almost alike, but the Panasonic has very bright/overly detailed signature - 'special DSP post processing' or a distinct feature 🤔
@@pliedtka All indications pointing to a bad DAC. If the digits are the same coming out of the disc, then the only place it could really change is the DAC. That CD player I mentioned had a then industry leading DAC, a Burr-Brown. Sounds like that particular unit you have has a bad DAC or alters the digital information of the disc. In other words, it filters the sound negatively.
This is a great topic thanks for covering it!
Great review. I was at my local Goodwill thrift store and saw a brand new Sony dvd/cd player with digital out with both coaxial and optic for $6.99. I use it as a cd transport hooked up to a YGGDRASIL OG DAC. Sounds amazing and can’t beat that price.
I've experimented with various cd and dvd players standalone and as transports. By far, the most important thing is the dac. A cheap dvd transport with a good dac beats most standalone cd players and more expensive transports (combined with an average or cheap dac). Most sigma delta dacs rob a lot of the atomosphere, warmth and nuance out music but it depends on the genre. For harder, more aggressive music, I actually like the sigma delta dacs better but R2R, Multibit and hybrid dacs win for any type of music that has space in the recording.
This channel always provides info on how to obtain good equipment that provides excellent sound. Thanks for the constant stream of new ideas, with high-end audiophile worthy humor. (I did in fact buy a wiim and some SSCS5 upgradable speakers. I blame you for the cheap thrills)
I bought a refurbished vintage Yamaha CDX 1030 for 130.00 shipped off eBay
Sold new in 1990 for 1500.00
It’s beautiful and extremely well made.
Sounds great already.
plan is to get a Gisheli DAC and make it my transport
Liked the Yamaha sound , don't remember what model...but it was better than the rest that I had.
I own 2 of the next model up Sony DVD players, the ones with HDMI outputs. I run the coax output into a DAC input on my IOTAVX SA3 and the HDMI to my TV, which is connected via Toslink to the Optical input on the SA3. It performs just fine either way. Since I rip all my CDs to FLAC files and then run the media PC into my Bifrost 2 I can resist buying a CD player pretty effectively for now.
I thoroughly enjoyed the video. You have a really comfy aura about you plus the presentation and structure of the video reminds me of old school youtube
back then we had to use cds on a dvd player cuz there no way to listing to music on a tv back then now days we do lol
Recently bought the Sony BDP-BX370 for $35.00 to replace a broken Blu-ray player. To my surprise CD's sound great and it even has Optical and Coaxial inputs. Can't see spending $600.when I can put a Flac file on a USB and get CD sound quality.
Great Idea, my old 1988 Technics CD player passed.
I hooked up a Samsung BD J 5700. Long story short, it's spdif output sucks, and then I conducted the signal through HDMI to the RZ series from Onkyo and what a difference. Now I can hear a very detail playback on my B&Ws.
I'm glad you demonstrated the all-important AC cord dangle test! ;)
YES! I have the same Sony player, I could not believe it had a digital output for that price. I have a large CD collection, bought an entire new system in the mid-1980s just to play that first CD. So thrilled with the lack of noise and dynamic range I bought hundreds of CDs. It is in my kitchen system, but going to bring it over to my livingroom with a Schiit DAC.
I need to see proof that the digital stream out of really high end transports are digitally superior than a very cheap one. If they did, how do CD-ROMs work 100% of the time over all computer transports? I've used used DVD players as transports for a few years into the DAC of a NAD T755 or Yamaha RX-797. Some players out of the early 2000s look pretty sweet, with all the transport controls on front and with a relatively informative VF display. That said, nothing beats the tactile feel of a nice CD player with a big informative display, a solid, smooth gliding tray and immediate actions after a button is pressed. Besides the UX, I do not think there is any difference.
I like how you pointed out the digital transport aspect. Same goes with SACD when paired with a receiver/processor that supports DSD. I personally enjoy music better in my setup using my Marantz DAC for both CD and SACD using room correction and my sub integration rather than Direct analog or taking the analog into digital for room correction and then back out to analog. I use a Reavon UBR-X200 for both video and audio and they to have Texas Instruments DACs only 192kHz though. My mains are old school JBL S312
Can mere mortals hear the difference between one DAC and another? In a blind test?
I thought a DAC simply converted a digital signal into an analogue one. It's not a stylus. Either it works, or it doesn't.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
It’s a lot more complicated than that. A lot of videos have been made on the subject. The quality depends on the component, the laser quality/depth of reading, the decoder and many more factors.
One thing that might better illustrate the difference between the DACs is to record the audio that comes out of the RCA jacks, import that into a computer, and show the differences that way.
Better still show measurements from an audio analyser. I find these kind of comparisons extremely ignorant of how minute and inaudible the differences actually are.
Amen Randy! Amen! I use a 5 dollar 2nd hand dvd player. Just a tip. If at first, you don't have a DAC.( A DAC is a must when using a DVD player as a transport device and running it out thru the Coax output.) Plug it in your TV to see the menu and put all the cinematic sounds to neutral or zero. A lot of DVD players have a lot of sound adjustments in the menus that can affect the sound coming out of it. This was used do enhance the movie watching experience. Do that first. Once you get a DAC, you have the peace of mind that the DVD player is just a plain reading and transport machine.
second this
Thanks for your perspectives and keeping physical media alive. I'm going to stick to a high quality internal blu-ray drive in my PC and rip my cds to NAS for around $175. Many ways to skin a cat. Have a good weekend, Sir.
The current dedicated cd transport I have manages to play the troublesome CDs that my other players had difficulty with. Certain tracks would always skip, but the transport manages to read them. I don’t know if it sounds any better, but that is one bonus.
I use a Pioneer DV-563-s. Got it for $43 in the original box with the remote. Sounds nice and warm thru my Pioneer SX-780. I’m very happy with it.
I just got the Eversolo AMP-D6. I installed a 2TB ssd in it for ripping my CDs to flac files. Plugged in a really cheap USB DVD drive (~$35). The ripped files sound great. Then I noticed that the Eversolo had the option to play CDs directly from the cheap USB drive. The CDs still sounded great, no noticeable difference from an Onkyo CD player (~$350) using a Modi 3+ dac. I think it is crazy to even consider an expensive CD player or transport. Bits are bits. Spend your money on better dacs / speakers / headphones.
25 years ago I bought an open box Sony DVD player from Best Buy. Saved $50 and whoever returned it had left a movie in it so I got a free copy of American Pie too.
The weak link in my system is my hearing
I like that you are talking about musical clarity instead of just bass and treble.
Wow guys, let’s get real here. There is NO difference in the digital stream of bits from either the $17 or the $650 player when input into a receiver/amp with its own DACs. No “spatial depth” or whatever he said can be heard -it’s just digital data! It can’t change from either CD original source. That’s the greatness of digital!
But, hey, some people even buy different 110vac wall outlets to improve “the sound” wow. Not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings but as an electrical engineer for 30+ years who loves listening to music, I just had to share. Love to all!
This is great information! Thank you Randy!
I can fix the gap on any CD. So if I'm motivated, I can. For instance, a concert CD can be ripped to MP3's . Open up an audio publishing app. Open up any song. Edit out the silent portion, and republish the MP3. Do this for all of the songs. You can even create one large continuous MP3. You can burn it into a new continuous CD format file or just leave it, most systems today will play MP3 files.
I found the internal dac of 20yo pioneer elite dvd/sacd/cd player sounded better than my old pioneer elite receiver (burr brown dac) AND my new budget external dac SMSL SU-1 (akm chip). Punchier, fuller, clean but not clinical. I think it’s because the SACD playback of the unit required a higher quality dac chip than most consumer grade audio components used to get back in the day.
This was really helpful. I keep avoiding the possibilities of a cheapo option as a transport. Maybe you could try using an external dvd/cd drive into the Eversolo DMP-a6 via usb and do a comparo there too?
Some have actually modified play stations to become very effective transports. I personally have a digital player (Pi2 Design Mercury digital transport/streamer) that accommodates cd playback via external cd/dvd drive, but still need to update my software to try that. But those can get noisy- depends on the kind/type of ext drive. So, still wondering about ways around getting an insane transport - even though I know I’d love one, still can’t justify a Jay’s audio player or even cheaper atm.
I have a broadly similar DVD player. It may be market dependant. Mine has co-ax, phono and HDMI, no composite video. Via co-ax into my DAC, it's on a par with my Sony CD player from around 1991. That's actually a compliment to it.
The TV has an optical out. Using the TV as a rather large and complicated transport display, taking the audio via its optical out to the DAC also yields very good sound.
One thing my ( relatively ) ancient CD player does so much better though, is it is mechanically silent in use. The flimsy build of the cheap DVD player resonates with motor noise if the CD isn't in perfect balance.
I have toyed with, then dropped, the idea of using stick-on soundproofing material, as used for cars/panel vans, to dampen the noise, as it does intrude on DVD playback too, but I really can't be bothered.
DVD players with optical or co-ax outputs do make very good transports when combined with a decent DAC. If they just have HDMI for connecting to a TV, use the TV output.
I collect CDs, put them in plastic sleeves (jewel case and digipaks included) and then in protective boxes. This is my collection and proud to show them off to admiring fans of album collecting. But, I don't listen to CDs live. I rip them to my hard drive from computer, stored in folders by artists, then subfolders by actual albums, I play the albums from media players using bluetooth to a bluetooth receiver connected via RCA to standard stereo receiver. Then to traditional stereo speakers. It's definitely the speakers that an an audiophile should focus on spending their fortune. For vinyl record players, the needle was the audiophile focus. With CD album players, the audiphile focus is on DAC. But if you aren't converting to analog, if you are ripping to digital files like me, then avoid that concern altogether and save hundreds. Spend your money on hard drives and computers and get a little computer savy again. The files can be bluetoothed to smartphone or stereo or car's bluetooth. So convenient. But whatever, start collecting albums again because streaming services will not preserve your memories as you age. What you listened to as a youth will be lost forever, along with your culture. Youth won't even be able to remember what tunes they listened to if they depend on streaming services. In fact, they will be erased, their culture and lifestyle and mores. Start collecting albums. Spend money on that. Don't spend a dime on streaming services
CDs and DACs:
I have a no frills Yamaha CD player that I hooked up via optical directly to my new KEF LSX II’s that send bass to an Emotiva Xs8 sub. The sound was unsatisfying, so I attached the player via its RCA’s to use the Yamaha internal DAC and it was slightly better, but still not up to snuff. Then, I dug out my She-It Modi 3 and used Yammy’s optical output to feed the Modi. Believe it or not, the Yammy DAC gave more soundfield and definition in the mids and highs. So the Modi went back in its box in the closet. That’s when I ordered a Geshelli with Sparkos chips. The J2 beat the snot out of the internal DACs and it beat the She-It out of the Modi 3.
Newer iPhones haven’t had a DAC since they got rid of the headphone jack. There’s a “little” DAC circuit in the lightning to headphone adapter, which is not great, but not bad considering how small and cheap. Some are better than others, but the actual iPhone version is considered reasonably good for its price.
Randy, how quiet is the Rotel’s CD mechanism? Can you hear it spin and index the laser when your listening space and music track is quiet? I have an old Sony DVD/CD player used as a transport and that is my only gripe with it.
I bought a 2001 Pioneer DV-440 [DVD/CD Player] in excellent condition w. remote from the thrift shop for $14 and it plays every kind of disc except SACD and has a very good Burr Brown dac. It has optical and coaxial digital outputs as well to shove into the Modi+. Always make your thrift shop rounds people :)
I had to come back to this video and leave a comment. I'm a vintage HIFI guy, still rocking my Pioneer system from the late 1970's. That said, I am also an AVR guy, and I have been more into video for the past couple of decades. Watching your channel made me fire up the vingage Pioneer system, so I set it up next to the video system in the basement. My original CD player died a long time ago, so I didn't have a good way to play CD"s on the Pioneer. After watching your channel I started to investigate DAC's and streamers, and added a Wiim Pro Plus and then a SMSL DL200 DAC. Long story short, after watching this video, it dawned once that I could take the Coax Digital output from my Pioneer Elite Blu-ray player and feed that into the Coax input in the SMSL DL200. Moved the Wiim to the optical input, and boom, Now I have Streaming Audio and CD's on the vintage system. I've learned so much about DAC's, and other Digital tech from your channel. Your channel really encouraged me to start listening to Vinyl again as well. Got a new stylus for the vintage Shure V15-type IV cartridge. That lead to replacing the vintage Technics turntable with a new Technics SL-1200GR. I always wanted a SL-1200, and the GR really hit the spot for me. So thanks for rekindling my interest in audio and HIFI. It was such a huge part of my youth in the 1970's and 1980's and it feels great to be enjoying it again!
@cheapaudioman I too play my CDs using an old Sony combo dvd/cd player. I figured I’d improve the sound by connecting it to a Schiit Modi dac. Since the Sony is not hooked up to a tv I have no access to the settings menu. My Q is once I plug the coaxial out cable from the Sony to the dac is the internal Sony dac automatically disabled? I ask because, unlike you, I wasn’t blown away by any sonic difference, so I’m just wondering if there are Sony settings I need to adjust. Thx. Dave
To be honest I’m a bit shocked that the emotiva CD player doesn’t play gap less, very annoying if you’re listening to Dirty Deeds for example. I recently shelled out on the Audiolab 7000cdt and have noticed a real improvement from my old Marantz 63 running through the same J2 dac
Agreed. No CD player should put gaps in.
Nice. I own the audiolab 9000CDT.
An end game.
That was the exact reason I didn't purchase the emotiva. I wasn't looking for anything fancy since I was going to use it as a transport anyways. My only criteria were coax out and gapless. Ended up buying a Yamaha unit.
@@rauldon4596if I ever upgrade I think that is what I'm going to get.
@@rauldon4596 I bet
I'm a vinyl seller but I collect CD's secretely. In Canada the common price of used CD's is around $1 and that's 75 cents american. I mainly focus on private pressed CDs home brew stuff as that's what's replaced the tape and demo vinyl record for the last 25 years - but they are so ubiquitous I can get killer mainstream titles on CD any day of the week still. It's also a great way to hear albums I wouldn't spend the money on for a Vinyl pressing until I demo it ... Streaming does NOT mean better - the 'lack of interenet connection' is just one of several issues .
And there's the fact that most dedicated cd players can be a little too sensitive to scratches on CDs and skip songs, while most DVD players I tested so far were very forgiving of scratches. Use the coaxial output to an external DAC (there are many cheap, but very good sounding options out there) and voila! No need to spend figures on those Marantz ultra expensive futuristic machines that can only do the basic 😛
Today’s debate and honest discussion is your competitive advantage over any other media form on the subject. Keep it coming!!
That Sony is one of the best transports around for under 300$. I use it with the DAC in my Onkyo amp and it sounds better than the actual Onkyo CD player with or without the internal DAC. It's not far off but there's something about that Sony that I can't believe for 30 bucks! I have two new in box in case they stop making it.
Randy, thanks for this video. I've been thinking of buying a new CD player such as the NAD C 538 to upgrade my very old Toshiba SD3109 DVD player but now I'm wondering if maybe its worthy of a new DAC to connect it to?
I have virtually the same identical looking Sony DVPSR310p DVD player and I compared it to Philips CD 160 with the at one time revered TDA1541 dac chip. The sound from the Sony was better when both were tested with Vibrapod isolators and the same quality interconnects. I don't know if the age of Philips (1987) played a part in it's performance but am surprised how well the Sony sounds in comparison.
I wish everyone in this industry/hobby was as honest about differences as you are.
I basically did that experiment about 20 years ago, $3000 to 4000+ CD player theta vs a used $100 CD player pioneer stable platter vs DVD player Sony. And again when I got the cheapest oppo Blu-ray player.
I still use that old CD player as a transport and that OPPO.
Hey Randy, I own a Sony 608ESD, CD player that I got on sale back in 1988 for $600.00 Canadian. It has the analog plus the Digital output (optical). The retail price was $1299.00 as it was Sony's top CD player at that time. The quality of the build plus the smoothness of the tray mechanism was the main reason I bought it. It has been a great player for the 35 years that I've had it. My receiver that I've had for about the time is a Carver HR 752 which more powerful than most at that time. The sound quality through my Bose 601 III speakers along with the sonic holography button on the Carver gives me incredible sounds like I'm in a live studio. Sonic holography on the Carver is an analog feature that acts like a digital output. I also run a pair of Polk audio monitor 4s as the B speakers option which kind of gives it a surround sound feel though it is analog. I love your channel. Cheers.
I run CDs being spun on a Panasonic UB-420 through the optical input of my Wiim Pro and love it!! I have an older Sony DVD player (90s vintage) that works well, too!! ~Frank
My hifi journey has had a similar path to yours (minus creating a huge YT channel). 3 years ago, I thought I’d spend a max of 1-1.5k on my whole system. But now, my system is definitely more expensive than my first car , Andrew Jones Salsa and a Pomeranian… and I have become completely ok with that reality. Because my system is a lot better than what I had when my system was 1.5k. And, if I’m honest, I really do think it is now much more enjoyable.
BUT, I now only upgrade to components that my whole family actually uses, and that is the greatest challenge.
Back in the late 80s when I was relatively new to this hobby, I’d put together the best system I could within the constraints of my disposable income. A Rega turn table. Rega cd player. Rega amplifier. Pioneer cassette deck and mission speakers. I don’t recall there being stand alone DACs back then. I also had a 56 inch dlp tv.
After a evening spent with a mate, listening to music and comparing CDs to vinyl, my friend remarked that I had an impressive system, but lacked a dvd player. A couple of days he called round, baring gifts. A dvd player he had purchased from Tesco for £15. This thing was a beast, weighed more than my Rega amp and was the size of a small car battery. I plumbed it into my system. My 56 inch screen, huge for the late 80s immediately sprung to life, with a huge “TESCO” logo dancing around the screen.
I pulled out 2 copies of the same CDs, duplicate birthday gifts! I put 1 cd in the Rega, the other in the Tesco dvd player. I synchronised them. We sat there in total amazement, jaws on our chests. The audio performance of the 2 units were virtually inseparable. I then realised that the rca cable I was using to connect the Rega cd player to the Rega amp had cost me £149 where as I’d used a cheap £9.99 rca cable I had lying around to connect the Tesco dvd player to the Rega amp. So, I swapped them over. This made very little difference.
Yes, if you listened attentively, you could hear differences, but in no way, cost appropriate. That was an important lesson to take on board and guide me on my hifi journey.
Now, I know there are those of you out there who will put forward the argument that my system was insufficiently resolving to enable me to hear the real differences or, that maybe my auditory system wasn’t as sharp, well trained, or conditioned as it could be and there may be some mileage in that. But I took a lot away from that experience.
I used a DVD player for my CDs for years. I got used to it, but when I went back to having a dedicated CD player (the underrated Onkyo 7030) I couldn't believe how clunky the DVD players were. So slow to read a disc, no ramdomize feature, slow controls jumping between tracks, etc.
I get it for people without a ton of cash, but it is a stop gap. A lot of folks would be better off finding a cheap used CD player with digital out and using that as a transport.
This is the biggest reason to go to a proper CD player with digital out. Simply for response and general UX.
I have the then mid range Onkyo C7070. The electronics & build quality is amazing. Can't imagine a better sounding cd player with Intergrated DAC - even a "high end one" 🎶🙂🇬🇧
I had a nice NAD player for ten years, when it failed I replaced it with a Onkyo 7030. It sounded good but the flimsy drive mechanism failed after two years. Onkyo would not replace it under warranty & I couldn't find parts online. I went back to my trusty DVDA player that I've used ever since!
@@trevorbartram5473 Wow. I got mine the summer of 2013, and I am still using it as a transport in my office system. Sounds like you got a lemon, because lord knows i have used mine hard.
+1! I still have the 7030… it’s brilliant.
NEVER use the internal DAC! Even in high end players. Reduce noise over any length of copper cable before amplification, regardless of the DAC in the player. Optical or coax (Digital signals) are the only way to achieve that. That specified S/N ratio is from the DAC. Not at your speakers. Always aim for ZERO noise before DAC amplification and always bypass cheap internal DAC. This should be commonplace. 👍😎🇦🇺
Using my 90s Sony bookshelf CD player and will continue to do so. These days only a couple of brands make a bookshelf size CD player and the prices are outrageous and quality is questionable
Ok, I’ll bust out our old dvd/cd player hook up the J2 and listen to that Quad City DJ’s cd and see what happens 😊thanks again Randy! Hopefully no ‘stalker vibes’ this time, ha!
Love my CDs DVDs and Blu Rays hell i even have Compact cassettes. Physical media is my preferred way of watching or listening to my stuff:)
You know you bring up a good question Randy..
I have a $75 Blu-ray/DVD/CD player in the TV room. I should disconnect it temporarily to connect it into the big stereo that has a $1000 CD player on it as one of its sources and do a comparison to see what the difference is in the sound of a CD, if any.. At least, if nothing else, it’ll prove to be interesting.🤔
Edit: I couldn’t do it; it was only HDMI; didn’t have digital or analog outs.. based on the results of your tests though,
I would’ve just been wasting time to find out the same thing😉
Hi there is a Sony model working on 12VDC
This opens to the option of using high quality linear power supply with extremely low noise
Often is beneficial to sound
I think it can also read audio files from an USB pen 😮
Still on my decade old Pioneer DV-600AV and DV-610AV. Great for CD-r DVD-r also plays SACD. Of course these were the last that did feature the hdmi output. Also SPDIF on coax and optical. Use them as transports for my DACs.
back then we had to use cds on a dvd player cuz there no way to listing to music on a tv back then now days we do lol
Your Band-Aid is matching your shirt this morning! Your color coordinated 👍
Yes! Thank you!
Thanks for supporting The Vinyl Attack! I have my own T-shirt from Chris.
Is it worth pairing the Prozor 192KHz ($13.99 on Amazon which you've reviewed before) to this Sony DVD player? If not, what inexpensive DAC would be better than the internal DAC? I use this DVD player in my garage paired to a vintage receiver so pretty much background music.
I use the HDMI output from our Playstation 3 into out HDTV. and the Dolby Optical output from it into our AMP an through my 5.1 Audio system. It has so much kick it can knock out my subwoofer. The Beatles "Atmos" Mixes are mind numbingly AWESOME!
The digital output of a CD/DVD transport is simply the original stream of 16 bits / 44.1 KHz data that was written to the disk. My bet is that you will find that there is the exact same data getting out off both.
There might be some differences, though, but do they matter?
Uncorrected read errors can create distortion. The rate or errors may depend on the mechanical quality (low error tolerances mean better alignment and less tracking errors), or on the electronic circuits used for the tracking.
To reproduce a (higher capacity) DVD decently, the overall tracking needs to be better than what is needed for a (lower capacity) CD anyway. I would not expect a high rate of CD tracking errors from a DVD player.
A high end CD player might over-sample: generate new 16 bit values between the original one, based on a linear or Bezier interpolation algorithm. However I would expect an high-end DAC to do this, not the transport.
[Edit] Equipment mechanical noise: a cheap equipment is more likely to be noisy, as an effect of more lenient manufacturing tolerances. That could be the one criteria when selecting a DVD player.. Hide the DVD player in a closed space and you will hardly notice.
Overall, I am not sure how the sound quality could really be impacted in any way by the CD transport, especially when using a high-end DAC.
The high-end CD transport likely has better mechanical components, which should translate to better longevity. Since I do not expect to live beyond 100 years old, this might be moot at that point, even if I have to replace the DVD player every few years. 🙂
I would not buy a CD transport at $600, but spend more money on the speakers instead.
I still use my Old Reliable Bose Lifestyle 28 dvd system and it still sounds great and plays gapless cds as it’s a dvd player too it’s about 30 years old and doesn’t disappoint,
Late 90s dvd players that retailed for $1000 or so seem to give you a great blend of build quality and overall quality with low prices. I have the Sony in the video and it works fine using the digital output to my receiver but it just feels cheap. It looks like OG Sony dvd players have a slight premium but I picked up a Toshiba SD-5109 from 1999 (Msrp $1k) for $30 and it’s about everything you could want
Yes. Plus, the fact than some DVD players play SACD and audio-DVD as well ( if you find some 😆).
I have some SACDs, for the 20bucks I used to buy my DVD player for it, I’m very satisfied.
I wasn't cheap but I bought an open box external 4K DVD player that I watch DVD's play CD's and SACD's for $68. I also rip the CD's I buy to FLAC audio files on my PC. I can stream from my PC to my receiver or even the SONOS soundbar.
I bought 2 Blu-ray players in the past year. When I played 4:3 DVDs, the players would stretch the picture horizontally -- which is not acceptable. I am happy that I still have my old Blu-ray player which plays all DVDs correctly.
Running the HDMI from a blue ray player into your receiver would also be equivalent to the SPDIF, wouldn’t it?
Old high end dvd players that are supposed to be obselete make superb cd players for not a lot of money, I've been using an Arcam DV88 for a month now, came boxed, unmarked for £60, was £1k when new back in the day.
I have an oppo I got for $60 and it’s excellent
I got myself a Marantz CD-67 SE for under $200 shipped a couple years ago. It was eye opening how much better it made my CDs sound. Before that I was listening to my old Diskman, so the difference was dramatic. It can also be used as a transport, so if I want to use a DAC that doesn't colour the sound as much as the one inside the Marantz, I have that option. (although I haven't felt the need to yet) Highly recommended.
I have gone the same way with the older marantz CD-16. Had to put in new belts and now I have a left over part. Oops. But works anyways. It's fantastic.
I own the Cambridge Audio AXC35 and play new CDs on it as well as CDs that I've owned for 40 years. I have only one fairly big dislike about it in that it is not very forgiving of slight scratches or smudges on the playable surface. I admit that I have some discs that I don't expect to work but others that only have slight scuffs and will error out and skip while being played. For this reason, I'll be looking for another CD player. Also, I own that Sony DVD player... I agree, it sounds HORRIBLE using it's internal DAC. I used it in my garage while I work on cars or other stuff and even then, as background music, I notice the general... hollowness of the sound. Perhaps I'll invest in an inexpensive external DAC and try it again.
I have an older (1991- ish) Rotel CD player and when I compare the sound with my DVD player using the digital outputs into my Schiit Modi, I can't tell the difference, I can tell the difference I compare the analog output of the Rotel to the Modi. I actually like the analog out of the Rotel a little better than the Modi. Oh by the way, one other awesome thing about CDs is that you can easily rip lossless flac files from a CD and keep them on your phone for whenever you want to listen.
Interesting conversation. I have a Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, the 2000-T, and I will never part with it until death. It reads cd’s so well and I’ve tried it with different dacs. I find the reading of the cd and the purity of the info sent through that 75 ohm coaxial cable is pretty important as well. However, you’ve got to have a good dac to turn those 1’s and 0’s into decent sound.
Nice one, remember EAD from visits to local dealer. I think most if not all quality CD players and transports from that time bring the current machines to their knees. And they do sound slightly different between each other via Toslink or Optical, something I was sceptical of before I didn't hear it myself.
Thanks, Randy.
After just going out and buying a $6 open box coax audio cable, I have a nice very cheap system. Cheapo DVD player I had lying around the house (essentially free, but probably $30 when I bought it) - into a Schiit Modi DAC ($99 or so back when I bought it) - into a Fosi Audio V3 ($78) - into Mission 761i speakers I bought for $50 a couple of years ago from a friend. So, ~$263 all-in. Sounds pretty nice for a second stereo system. Just played some Blue Oyster Cult this evening.
To top it off, I have an old AppleTV that was just sitting around the house since the TV apps on it are not supported and don't work anymore. I can send the music from my computer disk to the AppleTV and since the old AppleTV still has an optical out, I just use the optical cable to go into the Schiit Modi DAC.
(Many of the files are 96k or 192k, but the old AppleTV only processes them out as CD-quality according to my son who used to work at Apple.) Still, it sounds pretty nice.
Thanks for the tips for the V3 and using the cheap DVD player with the coax cable.
For me it's a no brainer to use a commodity Blu-ray player for disc listening. My victim of choice is the Sony UBP-X700. Which I have connected to an Onkyo RZ50. The reason for this choice was that:
A: it was available
B: it play 4k blu-ray's
C: it plays SACD
All connected over HDMI. This allows the uncompressed surround sound from bluray's. Watching live concert recording in DTS-X or LPCD at 24-bit 96kHz in 5.1 is amazing. Listening to SACD's in 5.1 is amazing and listening to Blu-ray Pure-Audio is amazing. Not to mention 4k Bluray's and their DTS-X or Dolby True-HD audio tracks. Hell, even older DVD concerts recorded in compressed Dolby Digital still sound great, but there are limitations in that codec.
I see no reason to invest big $$ in a dedicated CD player for the vast majority of punters as today, it's highly likely that you'll have other digital sources that will require a DAC as well. Better to invest in a good DAC and send all digital signals there. Harley from Pearl Acoustics recently did a large CD player round up. And while they came to similar conclusions surrounding the use of internal DACS's. When connected digitally to an external DAC, there were no-perceivable differences. So unless there's a CD player hat has a DAC that you simply can't live without. Transport to external DAC.
I know the RZ-50 isn't the best AVR or DAC in the world. but it sits right at the top of the price to performance curve and forms a great hub for my home entertainment system. Certainty the best I could justify. Could I hear the difference of a better system in my living room? possibly, but I feel I'd have to spend alot more and as it is it sounds good to me.