Remember that the Atari 8 bit computer is the older brother of the Amiga...both are Jay Miner machines that were severely more advanced than competition upon release.
I've got a Hakko soldering station and I love it. Back in high school in the early 80's I was lucky to have two friends that had an Atari 800 and a TSR 80. I had the C64. We would get together on the weekends and play games with our systems as well as doing a little bit of programming. Amazing times.
One of the things I learned from watching electronic board repairs of pinball machines is that over time many solder joints will crack and some were like you show, just not properly done in the first place. And many times a tedious, pin by pin reflow of the solder works to restore the function. I recently did this for a friend's guitar amp that was just as you show with incomplete solder joints and the unit was only 2 yrs old when it started to fail.
It great to see a new user to the awesome Atari world. It is fun to see you discover things that are second nature to an Atari veteran as I am. Got my 1st 800 in Dec 1979, have been using 8-bit Atari's ever since. Can't wait for the next video!!
Those holes in the soldering are called pin holes or blow holes, and they are caused by the moisture in the board escaping. When I took my ISO certification back in the 90s a board was allowed to have only a few of them, but ISO-9001 standards didn't exist till 87. I'd leave them alone since the joints appear to have held up for this long.
The XL was my 2nd computer. I increased its ram by "piggy-backing" memory chips the old fashion way, a soldering pencil! Wow, can't believe folks are still playing with them. Great video BTW
Its totally fair to compare it to the C64 as long as you include all the homebrew software that is available now . Unfortunately the Atari machines did got the chance to show their full capabilities during their commercial life. Even if its architecture originates from the late 70's it manages to deliver impressive results for an 8bit machine. I own most of europe's populare machines of the 80s( 8bit and 16bit ) and I have to say that the Atari 8bit line still manages to surprise me with what this hardware can achieve.
With these 8 bit machines a lot of it comes down to the support chips. The better the sound chips and the graphics chips the more impressive the machine. I had a Dragon 32 which was a 6809, a far better CPU than the 6502 but had no sound support at all, just one bit sound in software and very poor graphics. However it was beautiful in assembler.
@@RetroDawn Yeah, you're right, I remembered that wrong after 40 years. I did actually write a 4 voice sound output for it. It could produce pretty good sound but tied up the CPU so would not be useful in games.
Yes, the Atari had awesome support chips. I recently saw a video on the BBC Micro, and they explained how software would count cycles as the screen was drawn and change graphics modes on the fly between scan lines to mix text and graphics modes, effectively emulating what Atari did with the Antic chip and display lists. On the Atari, some software would use the same trick counting cycles across the scan line to change color registers between the left and right of the screen; the Atari's CPU clock is tied to the graphics to allow pixel-exact cycle counting, so the PAL systems run at a slightly different speed from NTSC systems.
I started with an Atari 1200XL with a tape drive after my brother showed us his Atari 800. I later purchased a disk drive and eventually updated to the US Doubler with SpartaDOS. I wondered what all the noise was about the C64 since it came out after the Atari. I friend of mine got the C64 and we set them up side by side. The first thing we noticed was how painfully slow the C64 disk drive was and that it couldn’t boot directly into anything. You always had to type load “*”,8,1 wait for an eternity for it to load, then type run. I did like the sound of the sid sound chip, but it only had three voices instead of the Ataris 4.
I went Percom at first. It was, well, sloppy. It was a PCB held on by the voltage regulators with a full height Tandon (I think) drive but could actually address up to 4 floppy drives. The case I think was recycled from TRS-80 era. I find it hard to believe it was actually a commercial product.
Yep! Not to mention the 16-color palette vs 128/256. And the display list, which allowed it to hw fine scroll in bitmap modes, in addition to character. The C64 had no display list and could only hw fine scroll in character modes without a very expensive DMA memory unit, which no games supported until very recently, and only one actually scrolls in a bitmap modes.
@@RetroDawn I noticed the lack of color of some C64 games compared to the Atari’s version. Such as Boulderdash. The diamonds you collect on the C64 are bland looking compared to the Atari version. Also Wayout and BallBlaster for the C64 have smaller screens and are slower than the Atari versions. Not as smooth at scrolling. Although that could be do to the fact the C64’s cpu ran at 1MHz and the Atari’s ran at 1.79MHz.
Without a doubt there is one feature which far and away sets the Atari 8-bit series apart: That is the fact that it has an animated transition between stages of Jumpman, with music, instead of just a text screen.
As both a C64 and Atari person I hated seeing the ports from the Atari to the C64, none of them that I remember ever bettered the Atari.But seeing the Atari was full of custom chips and had the fantastic DLI as hardware leaving the actual CPU to do more stuff, Jay Miner did a brilliant job, and the Atari's was to be big brother, the Amiga took all that even further. Great times, all great machines..
Congrats on the upgrade install and learning more about the A8's! Most XE's are minimally socketed or not at all. Not surprised to see poor solder work by Tramiel era Atari, too. We are fortunate to have even had XE's though, even if they were built to lesser quality standards. They are still rather reliable since the chips don't run too hot. Recommend you recap the board, at least the larger power filter near power DIN. The U1MB will draw more power. I'm not a big fan of the double sided tape since it may leave a persistent residue on the RF modulator (no big deal I guess). Functionally it's a great idea. Another idea is to wrap the U1MB in electrical tape and let it rest on the motherboard. Leave the primary IC's on the U1MB open to vent of course. Glad you didn't drill the board. Looking forward to your followup videos on the series! Your explanations are very clear and the video progresses at a good speed.
I really liked your Ultimate 1M upgrade video. You should check out Flash Jazz Cats (FJC) channel for additional install videos. I'm going to check out your Kaypro video as my grandfather owned one for some time.
Tip. Something I recently learned about is low melt solder. You can get solder that melts at a much lower temperature. It's great for removing parts easily. However you need to suck it up after with solder wick. It's not good for regular soldering.
One of the really nice things about U1MB, is that it provides a handler for high-speed I/O that loads via the PBI handler hooks. This injects high-speed SIO support into everything, and since FujiNet can talk SIO at divisor 0, this means it has a max throughput of 127kbps. :)
Yeah, the Atari SIO speed limit of 19.2kbps was apparently due to the limit of the analyzer the hardware developer was using in 1978. It could have been significantly higher with most devices.
Really nice! As an alternative to soldering directly to the CPU legs, you can always look for either nearby pads whose traces run to the corresponding leg, or an endpoint from the trace, such as one of those nearby resistors or the legs from one of those nearby ports. You really missed out if you weren’t exposed to Atari back in the day. In school, I can only liken it to the SNES vs. Genesis fanboy wars that would follow a few years later, haha! I love my Atari 800XL, which I still have to this day - still with the original box, along with my 1050 disk drive, which still works too. Anyway, the 800XL is somewhat tight quarters compared to that 130XE case - I wonder how that PCB would look inside of the 800XL case? I’d love to find out a bit more about those USB power cables - I still have my original power bricks, but that would be so much more convenient!
There's a 3D printed mount for the 800XL that piggybacks on the rear slot and requires no screws. thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/atari-xl-xe-replacement-power-via-usb?variant=15968353910884
The USB power is really an obvious adaption. The giant Atari power brick for the XL/XE systems just puts out 5v at up to 1.5A. USB defaults to 5v, and it's trivial to get a 3A "fast charging" USB power adapter. But do be careful, especially with adding various updates, as they can draw more power than you might expect, and the Atari supply will do just fine, but if you're just using a typical 1A USB port, you'll run short. Unfortunately, the original 400/800 used 9v AC power which was internally converted to 5v, -5v, and 12v, so running them off of USB isn't really an option without a lot of work. I think the 12v wasn't actually used (it was one of the pins on the SIO port, but they dropped it on the XL as it was never used). I think the -5v was for the memory cards, and I'm told that if you use a SRAM upgrade, that eliminates that, so it might be possible with some hacking. Oh, and the 1200XL also uses the 9v AC plug, but I think it just uses 5v internally, so it should be possible to bypass the rectifier and install a USB port for power instead.
@@retrobitstv The U1MB on it's own is a MUST HAVE upgrade for an Atari. I'd be lost without mine. Being able to swap out OS's is great, makes the small non compatabilities of the XL / XE series a thing of the past. Mind you, I should not blame the machines as its really down to programmers not following the coding guidelines and hitting registers directly when they were told these could change and use the shadow registers instead. Did they listen, no. There's another cart that is similar (and better in one case) for the Atari called the AVG cart. Very similar to the excellent side 3.
@@Mclaneinc Technically it wasn't issues with shadow registers, as the hardware registers didn't move. The problem was calling into unofficial OS routines that moved. Also Atari moved some stuff that it shouldn't have because while there were "unofficial" addresses, they were included in the BASIC manual as examples. I think those last ones were only on the 1200XL OS and fixed on the 800XL. It should be possible with an emulator to see what addresses a given program calls into, and then determine if it has compatibility issues. For binary-load files, you could have a preload routine that validates a compatible OS and prints a message if it's wrong so that you know immediately what the problem is. I've found that in general, anything released in 1984 or later works on XL/XE OS and almost everything older works in 800 mode, so I have my emulator default based on the release year (which I have in my database). But, yeah, if you're using a physical machine, being able to switch between OS versions is great. It also adds a newer BASIC option that is much faster (which breaks some things) and adds commands like DPEEK and DPOKE for 16-bit values, which I really wish had been in the original BASIC.
The 1200XL was a bit of a different beast. It was a fair bit larger and IIRC no basic on board like the 400/800. It had the L1 and L2 LED lights which honestly I have no idea what they did. Most interesting was designing a parallel bus and then not including it in the 1200XL. So no 1090 expansion for it. The 2nd iteration should include the virtually unreleased 1450XLD sporting dual 130kb floppy drives and the 1400XL.
The screws on the 130xe were setup to hold the RF shield and motherboard assembly in place, and this one has obviously had that removed from this one. None of the chips on this motherboard were initially socketed so someone's already worked on this one a little bit.
Cool, I was wondering if this machine had an RF shield and if it had been previously removed. I also found it odd that all of the RAM chips are in sockets except for one, so that must be part of the previous work done on this thing then.
@@retrobitstv The 130xe had some oddities, using faster ram in those top two slots can cause issues. That may be why those aren't socketed. They might have swapped all the ram except those two. I did a lot of reading up on it when I was troubleshooting the one I had from when I was a kid, and that was one of the things the troubleshooting guides brought up. (Mine ended up having a worn out socket that someone had installed on the ROM chip before I bought it used.)
(Though it may be more that Atari used bargain basement ram at that point, and that the first two chips are always a different brand/series of ram, because they needed to be rock solid, so the modder might have just thrown away all the MT ram chips and put good ones in the places that had those MT4164's.)
Coming back to this video, I have to say that the Ultimate pair is no more the ultimate upgrade for our Ataris . There is a new king (actually its around for for years but it did get better) and its called SUBcart. It offers 1MB RAM/4MB Axlon, RTC, fully compatible with ATR (specific cable), multiple ROMS to select and Stereo Pokey upgrade. You can enjoy that without opening your Atari or waving a soldering iron over your precious ICs. Just insert the cartridge , connect the three cable which enable the memory upgrade, the ATR support and provide the stereo sound jack and you are ready to go. The device offers the best compatibility from any other medium plus the video and music players offer a seamless experience reading from almost any type of SD cards. Since I bought a SUB and an AVGcart....my 65XE "Ultimate"machine is collecting dust. For developers things might be different but for casual users its the best solution plus you can easily switch over to another computer.
Haha, I know the feeling. I have lots of untested systems piling up in the garage just waiting for their chance to shine in a video! I keep telling myself I'll get to them all, but new projects comes in faster than the queue gets worked :P
Thanks! I've been eyeing Fujinet for a while now, it looks super cool! I really need to R&R my own 800XL, it just keeps slipping down the project queue :(
@@leesmithsworkshop The acid 800xl? Yea, I would have thrown that machine in the bin the second I removed the cover. Brilliant work saving that machine!
I had that computer in 1992 I think. But I've damaged it. I was a 12-year-old punk back then and I was interested in electronics so I put my hands on it and started soldering (Atari doesn't require it and It was fine). What a waste. I would be something now. Of course, I can buy it now on Allegro (Polish eBay).
The machine seemed to kick off Poland's computing scene in the nineties. A lot of those games then got ported to the c64 in the mid-nineties. Some really cool titles that most people have never played
Someone must have messed with this board already - no metal sheld, no screws, caps replaced with radials instead of axials and a bit weird OS (memory test should be different in a 130XE).
most XL machines are usually socketed (the MMU might not be) s but the this upgrade still requires some soldering. 17:56 the socket for the MMU does not look flush.
You're right, from my perspective it looked good but from the camera's side it looks raised. I tacked two pins in and then reflowed them while pressing the socket into the board, so I wonder how that happened :/
I've got that exact same Atari. I'll have to open it up and see what is socketed. But I can't really think I'll have a good use for those kinds of upgrades. Still, I will be wired to the screen waiting for the sequel.
Hah yea, I have to go back and fix a lot of solder joints off-camera. The problem is in order to get the shot on camera, I have to work about 2 feet away from the board and I can't look directly at what I'm doing otherwise my head would block the lens.
What is that tool with the handle and the wire "fork" used to put pulling force on the chip being removed at 11:11? It's so familiar, but can't place it. I could have used on of these recently when dealing with a very similar issue where I DID pull a trace and scratched another using light tweezers. Just not gentle enough a touch with them. I don't think it's "for" this sort of application, but it works a treat
The little fork tool came with my hot air station and is intended for chip removal. Amazon sells an "IC Chip Extractor Removal Tool for Hot Air Gun" for $40 but you can get the same thing for $1 on AliExpress.
Pretty sure the Self Test stuff never changed after it was added in the 1200XL model, which is why it has the 1200XL's keyboard layout, and only does 64K... doesn't test the 130XE's (or any upgraded XL/XE) extended RAM.
Towards the end of the video I noticed what I think is a Sears 13 inch TV/video monitor on the lower shelf, am I correct? Back in the early 1980's I connected a CGA laptop to the RGB input port.
Wow, great eye! You're exactly right, it's a Sears Total Video System with tuner, composite, and RGBi/CGA inputs (using the somewhat unusual EIAJ-8 connector found on some Taxan monitors and also Sony PVM "VTR" ports). I've been meaning to do a video on it, as I bought it from the original owner locally and he still had the original Sears Business Center literature, receipt, etc. for it! I just haven't yet acquired the correct cable but you've prompted me to action :)
@@anthonyferraro5569 Thank you for the offer! I've been looking on eBay for years and when they do come up they go for like $200 if you can believe that. I've just purchased a Laser128 RGB cable from this site: iec.net/product/laser-128-to-taxan-monitor-cable-6/ which I hope to repurpose with a standard DE9 connector. If that goes well I should be in good shape but I'll keep your offer in my back pocket just in case. Thanks again!
@@retrobitstv Thanks! So far I worked it out to be 370C by experimenting on a test board, which means I should still practice a bit more to drop it down.
I always wanted to put the Atari 130xe to the test.... Build a cartridge port that plugs into the back (cart area)... that has a 2600 Cartridge slot and a 5200 slot as well as the 600/800/130xe's cartridge slot. Supposedly, any 2600 and 5200 cartridge should work on the 130xe... same cpu etc... Be cool if someone made such a thing and maybe use a 3d printer to make a matching case for it. In the event you stick 3 carts in there.... maybe a small boot menu lets you select which ROM (or cartridge) loads? This would include the option of booting straight into the PC's ROM. a 16k RAM expansion wouldn't be selectable since it isn't a "ROM" ... The idea is to test Atari 2600 /5200 carts on the 130xe... Anyone try it ? Or want to try it?
No, that doesn't work at all. The 2600 was a very different system with a much simpler and incompatible graphics chip. That's totally a no-go. The 5200 was mostly the same chips, but it eliminated the PIA chip that the 800 used for reading the joystick directions, which is did by using analog joysticks which were read by the Pokey chip just like the paddle controllers. (I believe the joystick triggers were handled by GTIA.) But besides the different controllers on the 5200, the hardware chips are all memory mapped, and the 5200 put them in different places in the address space, which simplified the motherboard slightly. In theory, it should have been trivial to put out the same program for both the 5200 and 800 on different cartridges. But due to internal politics, Atari had separately written ports of various games for the two systems, often with the 5200 version being better. But it doesn't end there, because clever hackers ported the 5200 versions to the 800 and distributed them through various BBS systems, so most 5200 games were available on the 800 if you knew the right people. (I expect the porting was mostly adjusting for the different memory map and using digital joysticks, but I haven't looked at the details.) But it's a shame the 5200 wasn't just an 800 without the keyboard and SIO port. It needed compatibility with something to make it a win (the 7800 was a great idea, just too late). And the controllers were dumb.
21:50 foam based aka "white" double-sided tape - is a biiiiiig mistake. It will not come off easily. You'll end up scratching either RF modulator or upgrade PCB. Or both...
0:22 - just pan over real quick just to confirm you're not really talking to anyone over there... Though panning over would require a camera operator, so maybe that wouldn't work...
Turning an Atari 8-Bit into an Ultimate 1MB computer is interesting, but is it really necessary? This is clearly the decision of the Atari 8-Bit computer owner to make on his/her own. I definitely won't do it to my actual Atari 800XL for personal reasons, but if I ever get an Atari 360XE that would definitely get the Ultimate 1MB upgrade to it.
From what I've seen, it's more about being able to select different OS versions than the memory upgrade. Yeah, a few things will use the extra RAM (Sparta DOS mostly), but being able to select various different OS options is a huge win. Emulators are so good now, that it's sometimes hard to justify using the real hardware at all, though it's really cool. Of course, if you want to go all the way with hardware modifications, just jump to the 1088XEL. It's a new Atari 8-bit motherboard that uses the original chips (or modern replacements), and it is designed for the U1MB. If only it came with all the resisters and sockets soldered in place.
Good question. There are no installation documents per se, just a couple of videos to follow. I don't recall it being mentioned. The upgrade has been working perfectly for weeks without additional grounding though.
Yes! The U1MB and SIDE3 can be used in an XEGS :) Also, I believe it's possible that non-GS machines can be booted into GS mode and use the four on-board game ROM slots when the installed U1MB is jumpered a certain way. Will explore this in Part 2!
@@retrobitstv I'm not sure the SIDE3 will physically fit in the XEGS cart slot. It might. The slot is more narrow than the 800XL's cart slot. The SIDE2 does not fit in my XEGS. Maybe that's been fixed with SIDE3. They use C64 cart shells, so they are a little bigger than they should be.
Yea, not my first choice either. There's no official installation instructions that I could find but a video on the product page demonstrates drilling the hole, as does this blog post I ran across here: atariprojects.org/2020/12/30/purchase-and-install-an-ultimate-1mb-board-for-your-atari-800xl-1-3-hours/ I found a 3d model for a screw-less mount on thingiverse but it's only for the 800xl :(
In an empty space right at the edge of the board, next to the power switch, and exactly like the existing screw hole a little further along. Some prefer to hang the board off a single stand-off, but I like to mount it so that it doesn't flap around. Given that upgrades like Sophia (DVI) mandate the removal of the RF modulator, the installation of a DVI connector, and a slot cut in the back of the case, one tiny screw hole isn't really that egregious. ;)
It seems easier and more do-able watching you do this as opposed to FlashJazzCat. He's a bit of a genius, so when he does things I'm reminded that I'm so out of his league.
![[UA] Team Vitality проти NAVI | IEM Cologne 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wttO1zVRTC0/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember that the Atari 8 bit computer is the older brother of the Amiga...both are Jay Miner machines that were severely more advanced than competition upon release.
I've got a Hakko soldering station and I love it.
Back in high school in the early 80's I was lucky to have two friends that had an Atari 800 and a TSR 80. I had the C64. We would get together on the weekends and play games with our systems as well as doing a little bit of programming. Amazing times.
One of the things I learned from watching electronic board repairs of pinball machines is that over time many solder joints will crack and some were like you show, just not properly done in the first place. And many times a tedious, pin by pin reflow of the solder works to restore the function. I recently did this for a friend's guitar amp that was just as you show with incomplete solder joints and the unit was only 2 yrs old when it started to fail.
I like the fact that you pointed out at 20:05 how desoldering a large IC can be potentially destructive - something that is true but seldom mentioned.
It great to see a new user to the awesome Atari world. It is fun to see you discover things that are second nature to an Atari veteran as I am. Got my 1st 800 in Dec 1979, have been using 8-bit Atari's ever since. Can't wait for the next video!!
Those holes in the soldering are called pin holes or blow holes, and they are caused by the moisture in the board escaping. When I took my ISO certification back in the 90s a board was allowed to have only a few of them, but ISO-9001 standards didn't exist till 87. I'd leave them alone since the joints appear to have held up for this long.
Cool, thanks for the clarification!
The XL was my 2nd computer. I increased its ram by "piggy-backing" memory chips the old fashion way, a soldering pencil! Wow, can't believe folks are still playing with them. Great video BTW
Its totally fair to compare it to the C64 as long as you include all the homebrew software that is available now .
Unfortunately the Atari machines did got the chance to show their full capabilities during their commercial life.
Even if its architecture originates from the late 70's it manages to deliver impressive results for an 8bit machine.
I own most of europe's populare machines of the 80s( 8bit and 16bit ) and I have to say that the Atari 8bit line still manages to surprise me with what this hardware can achieve.
With these 8 bit machines a lot of it comes down to the support chips. The better the sound chips and the graphics chips the more impressive the machine. I had a Dragon 32 which was a 6809, a far better CPU than the 6502 but had no sound support at all, just one bit sound in software and very poor graphics. However it was beautiful in assembler.
@@wayland7150 The Dragon and CoCo had a 6-bit DAC for sound. So, a far bit better than the Apple II. No pun intended.
@@RetroDawn Yeah, you're right, I remembered that wrong after 40 years. I did actually write a 4 voice sound output for it. It could produce pretty good sound but tied up the CPU so would not be useful in games.
Yes, the Atari had awesome support chips. I recently saw a video on the BBC Micro, and they explained how software would count cycles as the screen was drawn and change graphics modes on the fly between scan lines to mix text and graphics modes, effectively emulating what Atari did with the Antic chip and display lists. On the Atari, some software would use the same trick counting cycles across the scan line to change color registers between the left and right of the screen; the Atari's CPU clock is tied to the graphics to allow pixel-exact cycle counting, so the PAL systems run at a slightly different speed from NTSC systems.
I started with an Atari 1200XL with a tape drive after my brother showed us his Atari 800. I later purchased a disk drive and eventually updated to the US Doubler with SpartaDOS.
I wondered what all the noise was about the C64 since it came out after the Atari. I friend of mine got the C64 and we set them up side by side. The first thing we noticed was how painfully slow the C64 disk drive was and that it couldn’t boot directly into anything. You always had to type load “*”,8,1 wait for an eternity for it to load, then type run.
I did like the sound of the sid sound chip, but it only had three voices instead of the Ataris 4.
I went Percom at first. It was, well, sloppy. It was a PCB held on by the voltage regulators with a full height Tandon (I think) drive but could actually address up to 4 floppy drives. The case I think was recycled from TRS-80 era. I find it hard to believe it was actually a commercial product.
Yep! Not to mention the 16-color palette vs 128/256. And the display list, which allowed it to hw fine scroll in bitmap modes, in addition to character. The C64 had no display list and could only hw fine scroll in character modes without a very expensive DMA memory unit, which no games supported until very recently, and only one actually scrolls in a bitmap modes.
@@RetroDawn
I noticed the lack of color of some C64 games compared to the Atari’s version. Such as Boulderdash. The diamonds you collect on the C64 are bland looking compared to the Atari version.
Also Wayout and BallBlaster for the C64 have smaller screens and are slower than the Atari versions. Not as smooth at scrolling. Although that could be do to the fact the C64’s cpu ran at 1MHz and the Atari’s ran at 1.79MHz.
Even though you clearly have some homework to do on these little machines, this Atari mod/build was definitely the cleanest I have seen on UA-cam!
Without a doubt there is one feature which far and away sets the Atari 8-bit series apart: That is the fact that it has an animated transition between stages of Jumpman, with music, instead of just a text screen.
As both a C64 and Atari person I hated seeing the ports from the Atari to the C64, none of them that I remember ever bettered the Atari.But seeing the Atari was full of custom chips and had the fantastic DLI as hardware leaving the actual CPU to do more stuff, Jay Miner did a brilliant job, and the Atari's was to be big brother, the Amiga took all that even further. Great times, all great machines..
Congrats on the upgrade install and learning more about the A8's! Most XE's are minimally socketed or not at all. Not surprised to see poor solder work by Tramiel era Atari, too. We are fortunate to have even had XE's though, even if they were built to lesser quality standards. They are still rather reliable since the chips don't run too hot.
Recommend you recap the board, at least the larger power filter near power DIN. The U1MB will draw more power.
I'm not a big fan of the double sided tape since it may leave a persistent residue on the RF modulator (no big deal I guess). Functionally it's a great idea. Another idea is to wrap the U1MB in electrical tape and let it rest on the motherboard. Leave the primary IC's on the U1MB open to vent of course. Glad you didn't drill the board.
Looking forward to your followup videos on the series! Your explanations are very clear and the video progresses at a good speed.
Cool, thanks for the tips! I have changed the double sided tape for velcro for easy removal.
Such a great looking machine! I’m glad you went the non district I’ve route!
I prefer the original Atari 800, it's a beast of machine and a near clone of an IBM from around the time
I really liked your Ultimate 1M upgrade video. You should check out Flash Jazz Cats (FJC) channel for additional install videos. I'm going to check out your Kaypro video as my grandfather owned one for some time.
I like self adhesive standoffs. I used them in a case for an Raspberry Pi Tube project for my Acorn Electron
Neat, I did not know about those. Pretty cool!
Very thoroughly done!
I have the C64c, 65xe, 699xl, and a 400. Still fun machines today
Tip. Something I recently learned about is low melt solder. You can get solder that melts at a much lower temperature. It's great for removing parts easily. However you need to suck it up after with solder wick. It's not good for regular soldering.
Subscribing. Your gentle and careful approach got me in.
One of the really nice things about U1MB, is that it provides a handler for high-speed I/O that loads via the PBI handler hooks. This injects high-speed SIO support into everything, and since FujiNet can talk SIO at divisor 0, this means it has a max throughput of 127kbps. :)
Nice. I have yet to play around with FujiNet but it's totally on the list.
Yeah, the Atari SIO speed limit of 19.2kbps was apparently due to the limit of the analyzer the hardware developer was using in 1978. It could have been significantly higher with most devices.
From my experience, the desoldering iron works better (does not get clogged so quickly) when you keep the PCB vertical.
Great tip, I haven't tried that but maybe I'll give it a go!
Really nice! As an alternative to soldering directly to the CPU legs, you can always look for either nearby pads whose traces run to the corresponding leg, or an endpoint from the trace, such as one of those nearby resistors or the legs from one of those nearby ports.
You really missed out if you weren’t exposed to Atari back in the day. In school, I can only liken it to the SNES vs. Genesis fanboy wars that would follow a few years later, haha! I love my Atari 800XL, which I still have to this day - still with the original box, along with my 1050 disk drive, which still works too. Anyway, the 800XL is somewhat tight quarters compared to that 130XE case - I wonder how that PCB would look inside of the 800XL case?
I’d love to find out a bit more about those USB power cables - I still have my original power bricks, but that would be so much more convenient!
There's a 3D printed mount for the 800XL that piggybacks on the rear slot and requires no screws.
thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/atari-xl-xe-replacement-power-via-usb?variant=15968353910884
The USB power is really an obvious adaption. The giant Atari power brick for the XL/XE systems just puts out 5v at up to 1.5A. USB defaults to 5v, and it's trivial to get a 3A "fast charging" USB power adapter. But do be careful, especially with adding various updates, as they can draw more power than you might expect, and the Atari supply will do just fine, but if you're just using a typical 1A USB port, you'll run short.
Unfortunately, the original 400/800 used 9v AC power which was internally converted to 5v, -5v, and 12v, so running them off of USB isn't really an option without a lot of work. I think the 12v wasn't actually used (it was one of the pins on the SIO port, but they dropped it on the XL as it was never used). I think the -5v was for the memory cards, and I'm told that if you use a SRAM upgrade, that eliminates that, so it might be possible with some hacking. Oh, and the 1200XL also uses the 9v AC plug, but I think it just uses 5v internally, so it should be possible to bypass the rectifier and install a USB port for power instead.
Yey. ATARI!!. I'm an ATARI fanboy so I'm very pleased with this episode :)
What a great add-on! Looking forward to a follow-up video or two.👍👍👍
Part 2 will really show off what these two upgrades can do when paired together!
@@retrobitstv The U1MB on it's own is a MUST HAVE upgrade for an Atari. I'd be lost without mine. Being able to swap out OS's is great, makes the small non compatabilities of the XL / XE series a thing of the past. Mind you, I should not blame the machines as its really down to programmers not following the coding guidelines and hitting registers directly when they were told these could change and use the shadow registers instead. Did they listen, no. There's another cart that is similar (and better in one case) for the Atari called the AVG cart. Very similar to the excellent side 3.
@@Mclaneinc Technically it wasn't issues with shadow registers, as the hardware registers didn't move. The problem was calling into unofficial OS routines that moved. Also Atari moved some stuff that it shouldn't have because while there were "unofficial" addresses, they were included in the BASIC manual as examples. I think those last ones were only on the 1200XL OS and fixed on the 800XL.
It should be possible with an emulator to see what addresses a given program calls into, and then determine if it has compatibility issues. For binary-load files, you could have a preload routine that validates a compatible OS and prints a message if it's wrong so that you know immediately what the problem is. I've found that in general, anything released in 1984 or later works on XL/XE OS and almost everything older works in 800 mode, so I have my emulator default based on the release year (which I have in my database).
But, yeah, if you're using a physical machine, being able to switch between OS versions is great. It also adds a newer BASIC option that is much faster (which breaks some things) and adds commands like DPEEK and DPOKE for 16-bit values, which I really wish had been in the original BASIC.
Just a factual check, it's the joint 4th iteration of the Atari series: 400 & 800.600XL & 800XL,1200XL then 65XE and 130XE released same time
& = joint release
1200XL was USA only..
@@Mclaneinc 1200xl which was the 2nd iteration, before the 600/800xl's. You've them out of order. ;-)
I totally skipped over the 1200XL or rather I just lumped it in with the 600XL and 800XL I guess.
The 1200XL was a bit of a different beast. It was a fair bit larger and IIRC no basic on board like the 400/800. It had the L1 and L2 LED lights which honestly I have no idea what they did. Most interesting was designing a parallel bus and then not including it in the 1200XL. So no 1090 expansion for it.
The 2nd iteration should include the virtually unreleased 1450XLD sporting dual 130kb floppy drives and the 1400XL.
The screws on the 130xe were setup to hold the RF shield and motherboard assembly in place, and this one has obviously had that removed from this one. None of the chips on this motherboard were initially socketed so someone's already worked on this one a little bit.
Cool, I was wondering if this machine had an RF shield and if it had been previously removed. I also found it odd that all of the RAM chips are in sockets except for one, so that must be part of the previous work done on this thing then.
@@retrobitstv The 130xe had some oddities, using faster ram in those top two slots can cause issues. That may be why those aren't socketed. They might have swapped all the ram except those two. I did a lot of reading up on it when I was troubleshooting the one I had from when I was a kid, and that was one of the things the troubleshooting guides brought up. (Mine ended up having a worn out socket that someone had installed on the ROM chip before I bought it used.)
(Though it may be more that Atari used bargain basement ram at that point, and that the first two chips are always a different brand/series of ram, because they needed to be rock solid, so the modder might have just thrown away all the MT ram chips and put good ones in the places that had those MT4164's.)
Coming back to this video, I have to say that the Ultimate pair is no more the ultimate upgrade for our Ataris . There is a new king (actually its around for for years but it did get better) and its called SUBcart. It offers 1MB RAM/4MB Axlon, RTC, fully compatible with ATR (specific cable), multiple ROMS to select and Stereo Pokey upgrade. You can enjoy that without opening your Atari or waving a soldering iron over your precious ICs. Just insert the cartridge , connect the three cable which enable the memory upgrade, the ATR support and provide the stereo sound jack and you are ready to go.
The device offers the best compatibility from any other medium plus the video and music players offer a seamless experience reading from almost any type of SD cards.
Since I bought a SUB and an AVGcart....my 65XE "Ultimate"machine is collecting dust. For developers things might be different but for casual users its the best solution plus you can easily switch over to another computer.
That was one sexy looking 8-Bit, has to be said ... if I had to choose, I'd still got for the C128, but it's a darn close race 😁
I need to get my 65XE going one of these days. Haven't ever even tried to power it up. I think I may be a hoarder lol.
Haha, I know the feeling. I have lots of untested systems piling up in the garage just waiting for their chance to shine in a video! I keep telling myself I'll get to them all, but new projects comes in faster than the queue gets worked :P
Superb episode!
I have never seen this 8-bit one. I only knew the ST ;-)
Great video, Next you need a Fujinet and then it will have everything.
The Fujinet is quite incredible too. The Atari 8-bits are really looking good!
Thanks! I've been eyeing Fujinet for a while now, it looks super cool! I really need to R&R my own 800XL, it just keeps slipping down the project queue :(
@@retrobitstv have you seen my 800xl video series ?
@@leesmithsworkshop The acid 800xl? Yea, I would have thrown that machine in the bin the second I removed the cover. Brilliant work saving that machine!
@@retrobitstv still can't believe it actually worked.
I had that computer in 1992 I think. But I've damaged it. I was a 12-year-old punk back then and I was interested in electronics so I put my hands on it and started soldering (Atari doesn't require it and It was fine). What a waste. I would be something now. Of course, I can buy it now on Allegro (Polish eBay).
The machine seemed to kick off Poland's computing scene in the nineties. A lot of those games then got ported to the c64 in the mid-nineties. Some really cool titles that most people have never played
Any must-try titles in particular?
Great Video!!!
Good stuff!
Thats awesome.
Someone must have messed with this board already - no metal sheld, no screws, caps replaced with radials instead of axials and a bit weird OS (memory test should be different in a 130XE).
came here for caller id spoofing was not dissapointed
Now ATARI get new life, superb.
most XL machines are usually socketed (the MMU might not be) s but the this upgrade still requires some soldering.
17:56 the socket for the MMU does not look flush.
You're right, from my perspective it looked good but from the camera's side it looks raised. I tacked two pins in and then reflowed them while pressing the socket into the board, so I wonder how that happened :/
I've got that exact same Atari. I'll have to open it up and see what is socketed. But I can't really think I'll have a good use for those kinds of upgrades. Still, I will be wired to the screen waiting for the sequel.
There's some pretty neat use cases I hope to cover in Part 2!
Pretty cool :D
Can we talk about your solder joint @17:35?!? Ya know, after your spent time poking at the factory about that...
Hah yea, I have to go back and fix a lot of solder joints off-camera. The problem is in order to get the shot on camera, I have to work about 2 feet away from the board and I can't look directly at what I'm doing otherwise my head would block the lens.
What is that tool with the handle and the wire "fork" used to put pulling force on the chip being removed at 11:11? It's so familiar, but can't place it. I could have used on of these recently when dealing with a very similar issue where I DID pull a trace and scratched another using light tweezers. Just not gentle enough a touch with them. I don't think it's "for" this sort of application, but it works a treat
The little fork tool came with my hot air station and is intended for chip removal. Amazon sells an "IC Chip Extractor Removal Tool for Hot Air Gun" for $40 but you can get the same thing for $1 on AliExpress.
Pretty sure the Self Test stuff never changed after it was added in the 1200XL model, which is why it has the 1200XL's keyboard layout, and only does 64K... doesn't test the 130XE's (or any upgraded XL/XE) extended RAM.
Later XE OS's do test the full 128K iirc. It will show four more RAM blocks below the 64K in a horizontal pattern.
@@gamedoutgamer Cool, I never knew that!
"So it should be easily removable when done" .... yeah, might want to be careful with that tape, the longer it sits, the harder it holds on...
Noted! I have swapped it for Velcro instead.
Cuda na kiju!
Towards the end of the video I noticed what I think is a Sears 13 inch TV/video monitor on the lower shelf, am I correct? Back in the early 1980's I connected a CGA laptop to the RGB input port.
Wow, great eye! You're exactly right, it's a Sears Total Video System with tuner, composite, and RGBi/CGA inputs (using the somewhat unusual EIAJ-8 connector found on some Taxan monitors and also Sony PVM "VTR" ports). I've been meaning to do a video on it, as I bought it from the original owner locally and he still had the original Sears Business Center literature, receipt, etc. for it! I just haven't yet acquired the correct cable but you've prompted me to action :)
@@retrobitstv Would you like to borrow my cable so you can do the video?
@@anthonyferraro5569 Thank you for the offer! I've been looking on eBay for years and when they do come up they go for like $200 if you can believe that. I've just purchased a Laser128 RGB cable from this site: iec.net/product/laser-128-to-taxan-monitor-cable-6/ which I hope to repurpose with a standard DE9 connector. If that goes well I should be in good shape but I'll keep your offer in my back pocket just in case. Thanks again!
A quick question (as I will have to go through almost the same procedure soon) - how hot was the air on the heat gun when you de-soldered the chips?
I had it set to 570F but as I am a complete novice when using the hot air station, please don't take my word as gospel!
@@retrobitstv Thanks! So far I worked it out to be 370C by experimenting on a test board, which means I should still practice a bit more to drop it down.
it's not a retro computer mod without a Bad Apple demo...
11:18 yes! that's exactly how to damage traces under the IC - use metal tool as a lever 🤦♂️
13:37 here's scratched green mask, and scratch is crossing the trace. This time you were lucky. But next time you might not be so.
14:09 another two damage scars, one of them crosses 2 traces 🤦♂️
@@nneeerrrd Those traces will rust or corrode now that they are exposed? Now he needs to apply new mask or solder.
The tool is specifically for removing ICs with a hot air station.
what's this dell monitor you're using ? The one /I got doesn't have S-video
So does this turn it into an Atari 1300XE ? 🙂
I always wanted to put the Atari 130xe to the test....
Build a cartridge port that plugs into the back (cart area)... that has a 2600 Cartridge slot and a 5200 slot as well as the 600/800/130xe's cartridge slot.
Supposedly, any 2600 and 5200 cartridge should work on the 130xe... same cpu etc...
Be cool if someone made such a thing and maybe use a 3d printer to make a matching case for it.
In the event you stick 3 carts in there.... maybe a small boot menu lets you select which ROM (or cartridge) loads?
This would include the option of booting straight into the PC's ROM.
a 16k RAM expansion wouldn't be selectable since it isn't a "ROM" ...
The idea is to test Atari 2600 /5200 carts on the 130xe...
Anyone try it ? Or want to try it?
No, that doesn't work at all.
The 2600 was a very different system with a much simpler and incompatible graphics chip. That's totally a no-go.
The 5200 was mostly the same chips, but it eliminated the PIA chip that the 800 used for reading the joystick directions, which is did by using analog joysticks which were read by the Pokey chip just like the paddle controllers. (I believe the joystick triggers were handled by GTIA.) But besides the different controllers on the 5200, the hardware chips are all memory mapped, and the 5200 put them in different places in the address space, which simplified the motherboard slightly.
In theory, it should have been trivial to put out the same program for both the 5200 and 800 on different cartridges. But due to internal politics, Atari had separately written ports of various games for the two systems, often with the 5200 version being better. But it doesn't end there, because clever hackers ported the 5200 versions to the 800 and distributed them through various BBS systems, so most 5200 games were available on the 800 if you knew the right people. (I expect the porting was mostly adjusting for the different memory map and using digital joysticks, but I haven't looked at the details.)
But it's a shame the 5200 wasn't just an 800 without the keyboard and SIO port. It needed compatibility with something to make it a win (the 7800 was a great idea, just too late). And the controllers were dumb.
The only real difference between the 65XE and the 130XE is the amount of RAM onboard, right?
The US 65XE's are also missing the ECI port.
S-video is disabled on the 600XL/65 XE by default. but if you're decent at soldering it's an easy fix
@@DragonSlayerKyo I think all 65XE's have full s-video.
65XE's lack two RAM support chips as well. If one wants to upgrade a 65XE to 128K then these chips must be installed.
@@DragonSlayerKyo Never a 65XE with disabled S-Video.
the mark of genius is being able to approch something from a new angle ... welcome to the dark side
Built-in Self Test tests only standard 64k of ram. The extra 64k of 130xe is left untouched.
Later XE OS's do test the full 128K iirc. It will show four more RAM blocks below the 64K in a horizontal pattern.
Good to know, thanks!
21:50 foam based aka "white" double-sided tape - is a biiiiiig mistake. It will not come off easily. You'll end up scratching either RF modulator or upgrade PCB. Or both...
Next time use clear aka "red" 3M tape
I switched it out for adhesive Velcro pads for now.
0:22 - just pan over real quick just to confirm you're not really talking to anyone over there... Though panning over would require a camera operator, so maybe that wouldn't work...
Hrm, or a panoramic camera setup. 360 degree Retro Bits videos, anyone? You can watch my cat on the floor seeking attention while I solder away.
Turning an Atari 8-Bit into an Ultimate 1MB computer is interesting, but is it really necessary? This is clearly the decision of the Atari 8-Bit computer owner to make on his/her own. I definitely won't do it to my actual Atari 800XL for personal reasons, but if I ever get an Atari 360XE that would definitely get the Ultimate 1MB upgrade to it.
From what I've seen, it's more about being able to select different OS versions than the memory upgrade. Yeah, a few things will use the extra RAM (Sparta DOS mostly), but being able to select various different OS options is a huge win. Emulators are so good now, that it's sometimes hard to justify using the real hardware at all, though it's really cool. Of course, if you want to go all the way with hardware modifications, just jump to the 1088XEL. It's a new Atari 8-bit motherboard that uses the original chips (or modern replacements), and it is designed for the U1MB. If only it came with all the resisters and sockets soldered in place.
Otherwise, great video 👍
Does the standoff provide grounding?
Good question. There are no installation documents per se, just a couple of videos to follow. I don't recall it being mentioned. The upgrade has been working perfectly for weeks without additional grounding though.
Why is there a Halo game for 2600 but not Half-Life?
Works un atari xegs??
Yes! The U1MB and SIDE3 can be used in an XEGS :) Also, I believe it's possible that non-GS machines can be booted into GS mode and use the four on-board game ROM slots when the installed U1MB is jumpered a certain way. Will explore this in Part 2!
@@retrobitstv I'm not sure the SIDE3 will physically fit in the XEGS cart slot. It might. The slot is more narrow than the 800XL's cart slot. The SIDE2 does not fit in my XEGS. Maybe that's been fixed with SIDE3. They use C64 cart shells, so they are a little bigger than they should be.
Nah, Rapidus is the ultimate cpu/ram upgrade
Second is Antonia 4MB
So the instructions actually say “now drill a hole in your main board”?
Yikes.
Yea, not my first choice either. There's no official installation instructions that I could find but a video on the product page demonstrates drilling the hole, as does this blog post I ran across here: atariprojects.org/2020/12/30/purchase-and-install-an-ultimate-1mb-board-for-your-atari-800xl-1-3-hours/ I found a 3d model for a screw-less mount on thingiverse but it's only for the 800xl :(
In an empty space right at the edge of the board, next to the power switch, and exactly like the existing screw hole a little further along. Some prefer to hang the board off a single stand-off, but I like to mount it so that it doesn't flap around. Given that upgrades like Sophia (DVI) mandate the removal of the RF modulator, the installation of a DVI connector, and a slot cut in the back of the case, one tiny screw hole isn't really that egregious. ;)
It seems easier and more do-able watching you do this as opposed to FlashJazzCat. He's a bit of a genius, so when he does things I'm reminded that I'm so out of his league.
I am a total novice when it comes to the Atari so I'm approaching this install from the opposite end of the knowledge spectrum as FJC :)
Yep, Jon is a class apart, the excellent GUI's are just superb. Nice guy too..
Thanks for the recommendation of his channel. I'll check it out.
"your" friend, huh
mutual law is slavery, ownership kills
cash causes trash to appear
why do you need to count anyways, if not for money
Calling 1Mb ultimate! LOOOOOOOOOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣