Building a NEW Commodore 1581 disk drive!
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Ep 49 : Everything you need to build your own Commodore 1581 3.5” drive from new parts using a reproduction logic board.
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Replica 1581 Project Page - tinyurl.com/bdhhwtvd
PC Drive Adaptor - gitlab.com/toms01/1581-pc-dri...
AmiBay Sale Thread - www.amibay.com/forum/want-to-...
3D Printed Case - tinyurl.com/bdh4kyef
8-Bit Show and Tell Sales Estimation - • How Many Commodore 158...
00:00 Introduction
00:24 The Commodore 1581
01:42 What You’ll Need
08:52 A Soldering Montage (aka Upping My Game)
14:03 Assembly and Testing
24:00 Cost Analysis
27:03 Conclusion - Наука та технологія
My follow-up video on how to convert a PC drive for use without an adapter and issues you should consider before purchasing an 'enhanced' replica PCB for your own 1581 build project: ua-cam.com/video/-mKsMX0BG1Y/v-deo.html
Great job on the build and the video! The 1581 is also my favorite Commodore drive. I've thought about building one of these replicas before, but was afraid I'd spend as much as an original drive. Your price estimates at the end more or less confirm that.
Original parts / devices get more and more expensive. In a year or two this replica will be a bargain compared to the original drive price.
Don't forget Simon Owen's SAMDisk. With this PC application and a 1581 drive, it becomes incredibly easy and quick to transfer large amounts of data between a PC and any Commodore 8 bit computers. No need for SD2IEC or any special hardware.
UA-cam is actually the place where I learned about the 1581 to begin with.
Honestly, I like its looks and how it fits the C64-C/C128-C and how fast it really is when paired with JiffyDOS compared to a stock 1541.
Thank you for this video! With the shocking prices of 1581 drives on eBay (and prices are only going to continue going up), it's a comfort to know that an existing drive can be refurbished. As long as the needed chips and things are readily available, that is. :)
Great job. Like you said, it's amazing what can be done nowadays between 3d printers and small-run PCB manufacturing. And it's funny how "crazy eBay prices" actually seem fairly reasonable when you look at trying to build it yourself, especially when factoring in the shipping costs and all the work.
Thanks! Yea, when I stop and think about it, the tools we have access to today really are amazing. At an inflation-adjusted $900 MSRP, they haven't yet crossed that threshold of appreciation where they're more expensive now. Not that they were sold for the full $400 for long... I guess my takeaway is that one should build this project for the sake of building the project, not specifically for cost savings (unless you're the corner case that has most of the parts on-hand already).
@8-Bit Show And Tell It actually costs about $80 (total) to build a 1581 board and the drive can be sourced from an Amiga 500. I reversed the 1581 and built 10 several years ago.
I’ve been lusting after a 1581 for years. This might be a really fun build! Great vid!
As stated already, this is a great time for retro computing. Projects like this are great demonstrations of what can be done with new and re-purposed hardware
All I can say is that I'm a little jealous. :) VERY NICE BUILT!
Greetings, Doc64!
Thanks!
This video shows many cool things which is great in our modern era: community designed/built electronics, home 3D printing, retro computing still going strong, and talented content creators covering stuff which otherwise would never make into a TV documentary. There's so much bad going on in the world right now, but it would be dumb not to value the good things sometimes. Thanks for this!
Thank you for your comments! The retro community really is a great place with great people making interesting things and I'm really glad to be a part of it.
Well put, István!
I recall buying it back in the day for around 300. I found it worth the price. Now we can get it for an amazing price! What a great time to get back into the hobby.
That's so cool, Matt! Didn't know this PCB existed... and you really pulled together a lot of collected components plus talents.
I was smiling when it worked, first try. :)
I was totally prepared for hours and hours of tedious debugging. You can imagine how relieved I was when it just worked!
"It just worked" was never a sentence I had attributes to any Commodore machine ever :D Kudos to you sir!
Nice to know that the 1581 can fetch so much on Ebay.
I still have mine from the 80s. Will hold on to it for a while more though.
I find it hilarious that I pull up this video to find all the resources to build myself a 1581 only to have pull the same Samsung SFD-321B drive out of a box of parts 5 min before hand. Time for some clear PETG to go in the printer, got to make the 1581 match my clean C64C case :P
Oh man if I had any need whatsoever then this would be such a fun build project. The cost of the thing though! Since I have literally, no practical use for it .... relegates it to the "cool ideas I will never use" category.
But this is super awesome, a real showcase for you as well.
You need to clip off the PC floppy's green LED. A better idea for a power connector would be the actual Berg Floppy connector from a junked PC power supply with the molex crimped on the end. The Berg connector is keyed so it would cut down on accidental power reversals, assuming you plug the board side in properly.
Nice video! I'm jealous.
Thanks! I've already desoldered the green LED and adjusted the front panel LEDs to sit better in the case! I will have to order the proper connectors. Both sides are keyed so it should be fine once done :)
Great details on the build!
I’m lucky, I have two 1581’s but cool to know this is an option for replacements.
That clamp is sweet, thanks for providing the Amazon link!
NP! It wasn't that long ago I can be seen pushing little PCBs around the desk with my soldering iron or stacking components precariously under them to keep things level 😜
What a great project!!
Great video!
I'll be honest, Im unlikely to ever want to build one of these, but I very much enjoyed watching you build one. And well done for leaving the mistakes in, always a sign of a good channel.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! I hope that others can learn from my mistakes and avoid making the same ones :)
I've always wanted one of these back in the day and this is pretty cool but other than as a novelty I still can't justify it. The video was very enjoyable to watch and I'm glad there continues to be alternatives to recreate or keep these things going.
15:15 My body physically tensed up.
Haha yea what appears blatantly obvious on the camera can be hard to see when you have to sit way far back from the thing you're working on in order to not block the lens!
haha disk drive loading sound brought me back to my young days instantly! oeff :D
This is a quality video, hope you continue the channel.
This is why Europe was almost exclusively cassette based for C64 software. In 1987 you could buy a C64 for half the cost of a floppy drive. And even if you found the cash spare to buy one, most stores didn't sell disk versions of games...
Yea, it seems that things were a bit different over here. By '87 the 64C was about $125 US and the 1541-II would have been another $100 on top of that. Most software came on disk and piracy was absolutely rampant.
@@retrobitstv Yes that sounds about right. In the UK it wasn't till the Amiga that disks became standard and then many of the people who I knew who had Amigas had mostly pirate copies of games...Piracy wasn't such a thing on tape with the C64 as they were often so cheap. You wouldn't go to the trouble of copying a cassette game you could buy for a few £ :)
Great video. I wish I saved all my Commodore items back in the day. I ended up selling it all. I remember having a 1541 and 1581 as well as the ram expansion.
Same here, I sold it all to buy a 386 PC. Wish I had kept it as well :/
I wanted a 1581 so bad!
I'm not into Commodore systems, but I find this very neat.
Great video!
When you install those chips, better use an anti-static mat and wristband , if these are CMOS-chips, they may get damaged from electrostatic discharges ;)
Good advice. I seem to have misplaced my anti-static wristband so I guess it's time to replace it :)
This is very neat. Thanks for posting!
Amazing work... All that's left is to sand down the 3D printed button so it matches the rest of the case in smoothness! ;-) Now go ahead and try the 1581 version of Colour Spectrum on your shiny new 1581 hooked up to your C128!
I still need to fix the button. I did remove the LED and create a new power lead so that's 2/3 tasks done! I have tried the Colour Spectrum demo!
I wish I had this drive back when GEOS was my main OS. That would have rocked. But I was just the son of an enlisted man... Spending $400 for a CBM drive when the computer was practically free was just not an option in the mid 1980's.
Fantastic video Matt, thanks for making this video. As mentioned on Twitter this has been on my radar for a while now but I’ve never put the effort in to figure out everything. Great that you’ve done that for all for us. 🙌
just stunning !
A good source of these parts is a dead 1571 as it has almost the same board, just in a different form factor and some additional glue logic. Both use WD1770 floppy controllers which then talk to the 6502-based host. And 1571 drives are very common.
Good info, thanks for sharing!
@@retrobitstv The original uses all off-the-shelf parts, and the MOS8520 can be found easily since they are used in all the early Amiga models. Sourcing parts from a 1571 is not required and if you do, you will likely be lynched at high noon. I reversed the 1581 5 years ago and built several of them and there were no problems sourcing parts.
@@johnbos4637 I wouldn't be concerned about cannibalizing a 1571 that's already dead, too many of them have already just ended up in the bin because of that. But pulling a drive apart that can be restored to working order, is a bit of a waste.
Drench an old towel with IPA and lay it over the PCB, use your current brush and brush the towel over the PCB, that should remove most of the flux, I learned that from Noall's Retro Lab.
Cool, thanks. Will give it a try next time I open the drive back up!
I feel so lucky that I found a original 1581 drive. I use it on my VIC-20 all the way up to my C128D. Cool stuff!
I regret selling my original 1581from back in the day but have managed to replace most of that stuff by now. Finding a replacement for my old Lt. Kernel drive though, now that's another story...
Nice work. IPA is fine for removal of rosin-based flux so long as the concentration is 91% or better. The 91% stuff is available in a small spray bottle that is really handy, or in bulk bottles for refilling your sprayer. Shoot it down with the IPA, scrub with your brush, then use an absorbent paper towel or cloth to soak up the mess.
I've made the mistake of getting resistor packs in backward, and, yeah it can lead to unpleasant consequences if not detected before power is applied.
Great video; I am very glad to have found your channel!
Just discovered your channel via this and it’s full of everything that encompassed my early days in computing. Subscribed and looking forward to bingeing your previous videos 👍
Welcome and I hope you enjoy what you find!
This was a very fun video to watch, thank you!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
That was really cool!
What a time to be a retro geek. Such an entertaining video. Building or owning one of these drives is definitely on my bucket list.
It really is. There are so many great projects to choose from and new stuff coming out all the time!
Great video, good work👍
Nice work.
great video! your contents are always very interestintg and very fun! thank you
A very generous amount of IPA and a cheap toothbrush, then brush. Next, lay a sheet of paper towel damp with IPA over the PCB and run the toothbrush around soldered areas, this will help pick up that sticky/tacky feeling on the PCB surface.
thank you
Thanks very kind.
I built one of these boards and I use a regular USB charger as a power supply as my floppy drive (Sony MPF920) only require 5V. So I just soldered a DIN4 male connector to the other end of the USB cable. Cheap and simple!
Excellent!
Awesome job. I like how new project like this give live again to old computers
Thanks! It is truly amazing how many awesome projects are coming out for vintage machines these days!
@@retrobitstv since 3d printing and hdd replacement and diy parts people looks like a good deal for recycling, having real hw and having a old retro gaming machine. Also great video
Definitely a nice cool project🙏👍
I always order a few more parts than I need. Guess why…
P.S.: Great videos, I enjoy them.
Thanks! Yea, I always try to order at least 2 of everything. In this case, the parts kit from the vendor had exactly 1 of each component required and I ruined one of them by breaking off a leg :(
❤️ Brilliantly Done! 👍 👍 👍
I have a feeling this channel is going to REALLY blow up soon.
Hey thanks! That wouldn't be so bad; I'd love to be able to make content full time but that's a long way off still :)
Very nice build, going to give this a try myself. 1581 would by an awesome drive to have...
Great build and great video. Thanks! Really thinking about building one myself.
Thanks and good luck with your project if you decide to build one!
To clean up the flux, use a lot of IPA and scrub with the nylon brush like before, then take a clean cloth (like from an old t-shirt) or one of those blue Scott's Shop papertowels and lay it over the back and then rub the nylon brush over the paper towel, this should absorb most of the flux/IPA waste without issue and leave very little in the way of tearing since you are just using the brush to make contact with the board to absorb the liquid and not running it over the legs on the underside.
I will have to give that a try, thanks for sharing!
Sometimes the UA-cam algorithm has got it right.
Subbed!
😃 Welcome and glad to have you here!
Fantastic device and great video 👍🙂. Seems to be a nice addition to my atx64. Thanks for showing it 👍👍really interesting project 🙂
It's really amazing..... just really amazing...
Yeah, I like that. I never had a 1581 in my C64 time but I owned one 1540 and one 1541. I sold everything in 2001 and I never played again even on emulator. However I'm still amazed by you guys maintaining those old great machines alive
Very cool
Nice build. Purchase yourself a hot air rework tool for components that are stubborn to remove.
I only had a 1541 (still better than datasette) but i always wanted a 1581. Guess I won't need it today but hell yes do i love the sound of working floppy drives.
For real, i still have a external 3.5" floppy drive with an usb adapter for my gaming pc just for shits and giggles :D
Heh, that's actually why I still keep my ATX case from the Skylake era that too has a 3.5" slot bay.
If I ever want to go back from miniITX to ATX, it receives a floppy drive connected via internal USB.
Just for the lulz.
Another recommendation (based on experience) on floppy power connectors: don't offset them. The two centre pins are ground and probably linked internally in the drive (I couldn't see any reason why drive designers wouldn't). That means if you get the connector offset by one pin, you're shorting either your 5 or 12 V supply to GND and that can let the magic smoke out. In my case I was lucky that the smoke came from the connector or wires and the AT power supply was robust enough not to care. Both the drive and power supply still worked perfectly fine after the mishap.
Good advice, thanks!
Cool video! I was lucky enough to have one of these for my BBS in the late 80s. Sad it ended up in a landfill with all the rest of my c64 stuff after I abandoned it at my parents in the mid 90s.
Bummer :( I sold my original Commodore stuff to buy a 386. Ah well.
That’s an cool little project!
I never had seen your channel before! Happy it popped up now. Aye you bend a pin... oh right you tell it now :)
Great video. Building an entire 6502 computer for a floppy drive is awesome.
In your video, you suggested that were living in the golden of retro computing?
Do you honestly feel this to be true? If so, then that is the happiest thing I heard in a long, long time.
Absolutely! The sheer number of high quality software releases coming out alone is telling, and then we see limits continually pushed and broken like with the new Sonic port on the 64. And then there's all the new hardware being created: reproductions, enhancements, FPGA versions of chips that are no longer available, upgrades... In my humble opinion, there's never been a better time to be a retro enthusiast than right now!
Awsome!
fkn awesome dude
very good
Just found your channel, good stuff! I used to do component level board repair and rework. On cleaning your flux you want to flood the board with IPA. Don't spare it like its precious holy water, use it. Then scrub with a brush and flood again. Then use compressed air to blow it dry. You will be happy with the results. Also for a more professional look you can reflow the solder joints after trimming the leads to give a nice little clean peak.
Thanks for the tips!
This is cool. I bought a 1581 when it came out, or a few years later, who knows anymore, but I also got a 1351 and 1764. I feel this combination added some new life to the 64 in the waning years.
What's the 1351 and 1764?
@@MrGoatflakes Proportional mouse and 256K Ram expander.
@@8BitNaptime nice. I have seen Robin use an REU, but I don't quite get what he's doing apart from obviously blatting many pages back and fourth 🤔
@@8BitNaptime Robin from 8-bit show and tell that is...
@@MrGoatflakes Think of the REU as a solid state drive made with RAM instead of flash memory, so you lose contents when you turn off the power. GEOS shows you the REU as RAM 1541 or a RAM 1571, a very fast drive. It makes GEOS almost instantly responsive, but every time you power it up, you have to copy all your files back to the REU.
That's all the REU is, a bunch of external RAM the 64's CPU can only "see" by swapping memory in and out of the REU, but the REU has the hardware to do the actual transfers at something like 1 megabyte per second. Much faster than a CPU could.
"I am beyond nervous at this point." he said cool as a cucumber and showed his audience that he indeed has the right stuff. 👍 Awesome job dude!
Hah, thanks! I don't know what I would have done if it didn't work; I don't have the tools or know-how to properly debug it (yet) :P
Great video, specially the price comparison table at the end; it's easy for most people to think they are paying overpriced items on ebay and amazon, but when you really dissect the components in retroitems like these, you can see some prices are about the same you'll spend on your own building from separate components ($300 to $350 seems about right if you don't have any parts available to salvage from old equipment); you know that having the top of the line floppy drive from the 80s nowadays is not going to be cheap...
Cool project…
22:34 Nice setup, I don't hate it.
always mount ic sockets and resistor packs first, its just easier
Pretty cool kit! But I'll never understand why people use jumper pads. It's pennies for a full blown jumper that makes it so much easier.
Oh yeah. Now this is what I had in mind.
Wish I still had mine as this board would bring it back from the dead.
Wow! That is awesome. I knew about the cases being available way back when but had no idea people had recreated everything else. I am glad I kept my original 1581 bought from Toys R Us back when it came out. Like you, it was a purchase for BBS use only in my case it was Color64. Thanks for sharing your build. You have provided a ton of great content. Keep up the good work
PS: About that flux removal. I hate it and is my least favorite part of any build. LOL. I used to do the same method as you and it seemed like no matter how much IPA you used the end result was a sticky mess. I learned a great tip from Jim Drew when I was building the ICS64S motherboard he sells. I used the same IPA and brush but then I used a microfiber cloth with another spray of IPA. I did it after every component/component group was soldered. It is amazing how well it works and the board came out with almost zero residue. Of course, the microfiber can catch on the pins too but if you blot it and then dry it after it works wonders. The downside is it takes longer to do it this way. I have tried the dedicated flux removers and a few other chemicals and they all left me feeling meh as they weren't great. Hopefully this helps.
What IPA do you use? I found that using anything except 99.9% pure caused crud to be spread all over the board, but the really pure stuff worked really well.
@@Doug_in_NC I typically use 99.9 or 91%. If there is a lot of flux I didn't notice a difference. Especially for large boards like motherboards. But with 91% and a microfiber it is not an issue. No more sticky mess.
Looks great dude. Staggered it worked first time! I don't know a thing about 3D printing but can you sand and polish the button you printed? The surface and the witness marks look pretty gnarly.
Thanks! Yea, a lot of that comes down to how well put together the kit and PCB were. The silkscreen left nothing to chance! Yea, I agree - the plan is to finish the eject button with a sandable primer and then a color matched paint. There was a site that had created a Commodore Beige spray paint but they don't seem to have it in stock at the moment.
14:25 So you FIRST connected the power and THEN checked for shorts? I would recommend checking for shorts between power and ground before you connect this, since you could either fry the power supply or damage the board, you would not want that.
Heh yea I was only thinking of not frying my chips at the time, but you're right, I should have tested without the power supply first. Next time :)
Nice, sub earned. Great video.
Thanks and welcome!
On the topic of "gooey mess". I had used a very same looking brush with IPA to try to clean boards. It may have worked before (don't remember) but it certainly became gooey whenever it came into contact with IPA. Instead of cleaning, it made things worse. It *may* have been because I used it for other things in between, I don't remember. But it was really horrible. You could try just spraying IPA on the brush, waiting a few seconds and then touch it to see if it sticks.
I started using a normal toothbrush and thrown the other brush away. (toothbrush may not be antistatic, use at own risk).
Do you have the pin spacer 3D part URL? That thing is awesome!
The one I used is www.thingiverse.com/thing:6703 but there are many variations of it available!
Back in 1992 I designed and built a 32kB RAM expansion with a 32kB ROM Emulator for the 1581. Good ole times.
Thank you for this great video, I enjoyed it very much. Can you please shove me in the right direction as where I can get the "drive bay" thingy, the thing you printed at 08.20? I have a drive which is missing just that thing. Thx.
I got the 3D model for that from the forum64.de thread that's linked in the video description, but you will need to register an account to be able to download the attached files! Here is a direct link to the post with the file: www.forum64.de/index.php?thread/102472-1581replica-gotek1581-1581-pc-drive-adapter/&postID=1722477#post1722477
@@retrobitstv Thanks.
I like brake cleaner for flux cleanup. Nonchlorinated if you use it indoors.
Cool, thanks for the tip! I have brake cleaner out in the garage, will have to check if it's nonchlorinated or not.
Very nice done :) How did you do the speed comparisons?
12:05 .. your mistake wasn't damaging the part. It happened way earlier when you did order the exact amount you need and no spares.
My basic rule is one additional one for every started 5 pieces. So 3 when I need 2, 9 when I need 7, 15 when I need 12 ...
If they are cheap and common, I get 50 or 100 and store them for later.
it's really fast too!
Amazing project!
I love your monitor, which model is it?
Thanks! It's a Sony PVM 1342q and I reviewed it here! ua-cam.com/video/4aaRi_yN0ds/v-deo.html
Those are cool case options. Where do the 1581 plexigass case and wooden case come from? Would you share the links?
Cases are from the "Replica 1581 Project Page" linked in the description but you will need to create an account to download files from the forum.
Awesome video. What is the blue chewing gum you're using to temporarily hold parts on PCB ?
Thanks! It goes by a few names: "Blu-Tack" or "Mounting Putty". The one I'm using is this: amzn.to/2ZATJ6T
Back for a second viewing. Arctic Retro has an interesting video up today in which he builds a replica 1581. Due to an error in the board labeling, during the build the 6502 and 8520(?) chips were swapped. I really hope you didn't run into that with your board.
It'd be fun to own a 1581 again, shame the casings are hard to come by now. It'd be neat if it could be modified to use HD capacity though I'd guess the reproduction logic isn't fast enough for that
There were HD drives available from CMD, and there are clones available for purchase (Rear Admiral Firedrive) from time to time but I'm not aware of any open source projects, yet!