Who Are You Choosing? Messi or Prime R9? Beckham or Bale on Free Kicks? Van Nistelrooy or Aguero?
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
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Today we have an episode of This Or That where Joel Beya, Stephen Howson and Joleon Lescott discuss some key head to heads. Some debates discussed are R9 vs Messi and Keane vs Vieira. The Panel also discuss how close Kylian Mbappe is to surpassing Thierry Henry. There’s a lot of nostalgia involved in these discussions as the guy reminisce on memorable moments from special players.
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0:00; - Intro
0:22; - Prime R9 or prime Messi?
3:06; - Roy Keane or Vieira?
4:56; - Prime Thierry Henry or prime Mbappe?
6:50; - Prime Rooney or prime Owen?
7:30; - Who is the better CB, Kompany or Van Dijk?
10:05; - Aguero or Van Nistelrooy?
11:31; - Best keeper, Peter Schmeichel or Van der sar?
12:17; - Who is the better midfielder Yaya Touré or De Bruyne?
13:32; - Last minute free kick, Beckham or Bale?
15:39; - Outro
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I think people disrespect Messi's physicality too much. Watch any of Messi's matches from when he was 18 y/o to 32 y/o. You can't arguably be the GOAT without having PnP. His combination of acceleration and upper body strength was one of the best ever. Also, none of R9's seasons touch Messi's 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, and 2019 seasons.
I don’t think these guys are disrespecting Messi. What they are saying is that R9 at his best had a fear factor of 10/10. He was very strong, fast, insane dribbler and mad finisher. Messi isn’t strong, what he has is agility and low center of gravity that’s why he could never go down. Messi is the best but I get what they are saying.
@@nascimentoarantes But saying Messi isn't strong is completely false. You can't have ball retension as good as Messi's or a relatively injury-free career without being strong physically.And Messi had a fear factor as high, if not higher, than R9. Are we going to forget that Mourinho and Zidane used to play Pepe in midfield and Kovacic just to stop Messi? Or how he used to get fouled a lot in his dribbling prime but has more solo goals than R9?
@@samiesta9996 I will reiterate that Messi is the best. Messi is a small guy with a lot of agility, he is very strong for his size. R9 is a big guy that is strong, that’s the difference. Very big difference in strength levels. Yes Messi also has a fear factor of 10/10. What I’m trying to tell you is that during the late 90’s people saw R9 in a godlike way. The guys on this panel were very young at the time except for Ferdinand. I never said R9 is better I’m simply saying I understand why the guys chose R9. I like Messi a lot but let’s acknowledge that R9 was a special player. There things he did Messi couldn’t do and vice versa. I can live with their choice knowing that we never truly saw all he could do because of injuries. But your counterpoint would be that Messi has a peak that’s almost his whole career which I agree.
@@nascimentoarantesthe thing about r9 ,is he superior to Messi in assist visión ,and IQ??. Did he can make those run during all the Game or he need to rest then make those dribbling. While Messi rest can put beautifull passes , throughball. People forget that aspect of the Game , stamina and passes. So in a Game whonis more effective Messi or Ronaldo? We all agree that Ronaldo is superior to Messi in dribbling ,but the Game is not just dribbling
People are talking about Messi’s 90 goal season and everything but for me, 2015 Messi was the most complete attacking player I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I’d take him over any player tbh. ( also it speaks volumes when that one player can even have a 90+ goal season but plays better football LATER IN HIS FLIPPING CAREER)
Well in 2015 they had neymar and suarez who were also scoring lots of goals. Yeah before that they had villa and pedro but they were mostly on the wings serving messi.
I'd argue he was maybe even better after Neymar left, because he had to do far more heavy lifting in a far worse team. He was really starting almost every attack and if he wasn't finishing it as well it usually didn't go in.
I think 2018 Messi was also great, him and Ter stegen almost carried Barcelona to another treble. Take them out and that team was average at best.
@@Mrmostwanted91 2019* messi i think its his best version for me, if dembele had scored that last min goal at the camp nou that would have easily been a treble season, messi had no damn help, even benzema had more help last season with madrid winning the ucl, 2019 messi gets overlooked just because he didn't get the ucl unluckily thats the only thing that seperates 2015 and 2019 otherwise 2019 messi is clear he showed he could carry the team almost single-handedly
@@stevetheiii477 2019 Messi felt like Thanos. He literally did everything by himself. Even the game they lost at anfield messi broke the ucl record for most chances created in a single game. He slipped Suarez coutinho and Alba all through 1 on 1 with Alisson and they all missed🤦🏾♂️ in 2019 Barca’s second highest goalscorer was OWN GOALS😭
I hate how Beckham is reduced to being remembered as that fashion icon or for its moments like the Wimbledon goal or the Greece free kick. One of the most extraordinary right wingers with his precision and accuracy, freekicks like no other, a workrate seriously not lauded enough and footballing ability that deserve way way more respect. Beckham was special.
Agreed. Granted today Beckham would be labelled as a right midfielder/center midfield. He didn't play the same position as Bale did really. If I'm playing a 4-4-2, I'm picking Beckham every time, but if it is a 4-3-3, then I would be stupid not to pick Bale as he is the better forward.
@@john-gregorysierra8875 yeah but Beckham would be playing as one of the three in midfield in today's game.
@@jishnuadhikari5234 Bro, I literally just said that in the first sentence of my comment lol Also he played very well as a central midfielder for Real Madrid and if it wasn't for the absolute lack of a proper defensive midfielder, he probably would have done even better. Beckham had 72 goal contributions in 159 appearances playing predominantly in the center of the midfield. That's impressive.
@@john-gregorysierra8875 I agree
I wasn't trying to go against what you said.
@@jishnuadhikari5234 Oh...kinda hard to tell on the internet these days haha
I apologize.
For me Brazilian Ronaldo is the greatest striker of all time, I’ve never seen any player to this day with the level of skill, speed and physicality to the extent Ronaldo had it, at his very best he was probably unplayable. And that Nike ad of the Brazilian team at the airport made me fall in love with the game.
We will never see anybody like Ronaldo ever
@@fernandondawana9786 henry and mbappe the closest I’ve seen in terms of play style, build and attributes.
Both fall short of the fear factor and complete package that R9 had though, truly unique and beautiful footballer to witness.
Nostalgia merchant. Cr7 is clear
@@samatarMohamed nice joke
Cool story, Messi is well clear tho.
Joel just agreed with whatever Joleon might as well call this the J&J show. Bale over Beckham free kicks last minute, madness! Enjoyed this
Either Messi scores at will, assists at will, or dictates the entire play (usually all 3). This isn’t even a discussion #nostalgia
91 goals in a year says he is better than anyone prime v prime.
Simple
Yeah but i think if you put R9 in that Barca team he would get high numbers also. Not saying he would beat the record for sure but he might. That barca team for me was the greatest squad ever, they had a legend in every position.
@@Reypstraptor4269 yeah because that Real Madrid team that Ronaldo was playing for was t great was it? 😂
Goals aren't everything. And you need to take into account his team and how different football was decades ago more physical and less protection. That's like in 5 years Haaland scoring 100+ goals a year and somebody calling him the best in history.
Messi is a great amazing player but he is not unanimously the greatest player in history. There will always be divided opinions.
Great segment guys 💥 I liked hearing everyone's reasoning behind their picks, that's what makes it special 🙂
Imagine scoring 91 goals and getting 22 assists in a calendar year and still having people say that your prime isn’t the best
Insane
+ better playmaking abilities than R9 in his prime
Nostalgia blinds people
Messi and R9 both pick up a ball in the center circle in their prime. Either one can potentially dribble all the way to the goal and score. Messi can, at a glance, work out the position and trajectory of every player between him and the goal keeper and play a ball through the entire opposition that will not only find his team mate but will also slow down for him just as it meets his run perfectly. That means he’s twice as good at hurting the opposition.
47 goals in a season in about 10 less games with defenders been able to rugby tackle you with no xavi or iniest in the team, not to mention the pitches not been picture perfect everywhere. Context matters!
Ronaldo's best season = 59 G and A
Messi's best season = 105 G and A
I honestly think people just can't fathom the amount he scored so they almost disregard and place it on his team being elite and other factors. Which can explain a slight uptick but not almost double the amount of goals. The fact is, this was the greatest individual performance by a player ever and it will never be beat.
+ Messis amazing playmaking and dribblings abilities. People often ignore his playmaking and just looking at the g/a. Messi is more complete than R9.
@Alta what’s wrong with goals and assists and by your logic Messi would be beyond clear of R9 with his long passing, linkup play etc
@Alta also stop comparing eras, it’s a stupid argument
@Alta I don't think it's just about G and A, especially when you look at Messi, he was a monster in every way as well like ronaldo. I'm just saying that such a large gap is worth mentioning
@Alta pls tell me what he was doing more than Messi? R9 job was to score goals, messi has the record with 91 goals. Messi also set the record for throughballs in the same season.
R9 🇧🇷. The Nike airport commercial is a timeless classic
Bale over David Beckhamon free kicks can't be serious 😳
It wasn’t serious it was joleon tryin get back at ste for giving it him over the derby. I would have looked away at the end as well ste….
Messi is better at freekicks than both. True story.
@@bigwengz914no one asked
@@DS-dw3pz did you ask to be born? Jog on
@@bigwengz914 this was supposed to be just about Bale and Beckham and you suddenly mention Messi lmaoo
Important to note Beckham scored 18 prem freekicks in 264 games.
Ward Prowse has 16 in 324.
I think goals per free kick or number of free kicks per goals would change the perspective of this stat again
@@ericcurtin2812 JWP has a really nice technique! and Crazy underrated... my only point of thought on that stat...is football like many sports, has gotten miles softer, fouls now would not have been fouls then. Red cards now mightve been a stern talking to in the 90-2005 era... tackles were brutal then and refs often let a lot of contact go. Plus Veron scholes Ruud also jumped on freekicks, where as JWP is the sole freekick shooter....Just a thought
R9 scored 47 at first season in Barcelona
At the age of 19
Came second in Ballondor rankings
At his first and only season at Barcelona then he had one good year at inter and got hurt the next 3 years.
When he came back from injury he won the world cup in 2002 and that got him a move to real Madrid.
Similar to inter Barcelona and PSG he had one good season at real Madrid and then spent the next 3 hurt either the whole year or most of the year
@@acruzro95 he won the the balon dor that year at 97
This would be a bad Messi season.
Yes he Iost by one single point to Sammer - madness. The youngest to win Ballon D'or and World Player of the Year.
@@providename I'm a Messi fan but that's simply not true. Especially considering age. One thing everyone must accept is that R9 as a teenager was better than CR7 and Messi as teenagers.
R9 did bits in a time where attackers were not protected like they gave in Messi or CR7 time... R9 for me
Tf you mean by getting protected? Grown adults looking for stupid excuses to backup their bias. Messi is the better player
@Baddest_ back when R9, Ronaldinho and other top striker about 15 20 years ago weren't protected from defenders that could seriously kick at them when they had the ball... now you can't touch any attacker and the defenders are getting torn apart, it's almost no competition
@@etzjunior_ Messi in the 90s would have had his legs snapped for real
@@etzjunior_back then slide tackles from the back were legal. The game was a lot more physical
Great comparison. Personally it's R9 for sheer quality of skills and technique over longevity . Those days tackle are career ending injury. However I do rate Messi highly and he have proven consistency at highest level for number of years.
Its R9, Ronaldinho, Baggio, Messi and Van Basten in that particular order
Why do guys keep saying that r9 had better skills ? So Messi’s dribbling assist goals Greek kicks are a joke to you ? Messi has greater goals by far
Ruud is the best finisher in the box i have ever seen, if he didn't do the knee he could have been up with the greatest strikers ever. Was chatting with someone from Holland on the weekend and he said Rudd was one of the most underrated strikers ever. Was going on about how everyone goes on about Kluivert and he told me to go look at both his and Ruud's stats and they are almost identical.
I agree with you but Kun is also an injury prone striker who is deadly as well. On face value I’ll go with Ruud but if I look into the detail then maybe Kun Aguero. Kluivert came up before Ruud and won the CL in 95 so Ruud was playing catch up. But as a pure finisher I’ll take Ruud over Kluivert.
Van basten
in the box, un matched instincts and a killer
@@kiminonawa2550 Facts. I think Marco van Basten would have been one of the greatest strikers of all time without the horrific career-ending injury and botched recovery.
Well this world have never seen anyone come close to prime Messi,and his prime was around 15 years.take away nostalgia and there is no comparison.better goal output,better assist ratio,better consistency,better better and then better again
You’re absolutely right. What you can’t take away is that 20yr old R9 had a fear factor of 10/10. You wanna call that nostalgia? Sure but it happened before all our eyes.
@@nascimentoarantes you're right,same with Messi,he tormented europe
Generations can never be compared. R9's time was very tough..R9 is the image of football..Most football players imitated him...
Bale free kick over Beckham is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard! Ste should have walked at that point
I was lucky enough to see live both R9 (in his prime at Inter) and Messi… Ronaldo was just unreal, almost not human, I’d pick Ronnie too
Watching football for 35 years, Brazilian Ronaldo of the 1990s (pre-injury) was the most powerful attacker i ever saw. He was really something else.
Even if you took R9's single best season from a goalscoring standpoint, Messi's average goalscoring record for a 10 year stretch between 09-10 to 18-19 is still better.
And by the way, if you were to say, R9 played in a different era and goal scoring has changed, I took that into account. I did the math, comparing R9's record in comparison to the average goals per game in the league that he played in that particular season (his single best season in 96-97 at Barca when he scored 47 goals in 49 appearances) versus Messi's record over the span of 10 years (09-10 to 18-19) in comparison to the average goals per game in La Liga over that period. And Messi still takes it.
People take for granted just how good Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo have been over the last 10+ years. R9 was an absolute beast and probably a more well-rounded forward, but it is a falsehood that he was better in his prime than Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo
Too much variable to be consider apart from goals - type of player he play against, the rules have change, team he play against and team they play with, technology to name a few. For longevity it's Messi but for pure skills and technique it's R9. I won't put CR in that category yet - I even rate Van Basten over him.
@@jzlnz what do you mean for pure skill and technique? Just go back and compare the technical quality of their goals side by side and you'll see Messi wipes the floor with R9. R9 only has pace and power over Messi but finishing ability,Messi has more in his locker. MESSI can literally run a game whilst scoring just as prolific as any version of R9 you care to bring up.
I don’t think anyone is saying R9 is better than Messi. They just recognize how insanely talented he was. His one season at Barca at a 19-20 yrs old was out of this world. You have to understand where these guys are coming from. We all like Messi a lot but we recognize R9 too. I don’t think if you took that peak R9 that you would be making a mistake. He achieved godlike status in the late 90’s. Messi is still the best but I get the choice.
@@jzlnz All those variables you mentioned will have applied to all the other players that played during that time too. Which is why I measured R9's goalscoring against other players of his generation that played in the same domestic league as him at that time. And I was being more than fair to R9 considering he was primarily a goalscorer and Messi is also an elite playmaker
@@nascimentoarantes They literally unanimously picked peak R9 over peak Messi. What do you mean no one is saying R9 was better? A lot of people do this thing where they give it to Messi because of longevity but "R9's prime was better" and I am pointing out that that is simply not true.
I always say R9 was the best 19-22 year old player ever. And he never actually got to reach his prime. Now if you say he would have reached a level Messi never did if he actually did reach his prime without the injuries, that wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption but if you consider him at 20 years old as being in his prime, then no, 20 year old R9 was simply not as good as 25 year old Messi
The debate will never end. And this is good for football. Whos the best ever? Everyone will have a different player, top 5 etc. But R9 for me is just a different level than everyone else. And I got the "backing" of three of the best defenders ever: Maldini, Cannavaro and Nesta. Imagine all the legends and genius footballers these three faced. And they all say one name when it comes to the best they ever faced: R9. I must add though, Maldini did mention R9 AND maradona. The other two simply said R9.
And Desailly and the French defenders. Called him a magician 🎩.
Great episode loved it
R9 anyday pure 🔥 🔥
Messi is way better how is this a debate
@@LoyalFan9383 bro stop copy and pasting the same damn thing under every comment 😅, Jesus some of these Messi fan girls crack me up 😂
@@kiely4561 bro stop copy and pasting the same comment, jeez these R9 fan girls have nothing to say 😂😂😂😂
@@kiely4561 you R9 d riders are way too funny you make me almost die from laughter 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@LoyalFan9383 point out to me where I’m copy and pasting?, man got caught acting like a little woman and now he’s on the defensive 🤣
Joleon speaks a lot of sense and plays a good devil’s advocate. Also mellows Joel and ste out a little . Hope to see him on more. Also the king R9 is the best to ever do it in his prime 🐐
Messi is way better
@@pranjalsingh5098 I think Messi 19-24 was just a completely different player. Much more direct, more of a classic winger. As his physical attributes declined he turned himself into the best playmaker in the world whilst still possessing the superior balance and technique to move away from players. The best career in history no doubt, me personally I just feel R9’s peak was so out of this world. Anyone that got to watch him in that period will most likely say the same. The fear he put into even some of the best defenders in history I’ve not seen replicated on the same level. Both geniuses and there’s not a wrong answer.
It just shows how truly magnificent and unique R9 was to even be considered in these debates considering his horrific injuries literally missing 3 years of his career at his peak and to then and comeback and win the World Cup and golden boot and get a standing ovation at old Trafford in champions league.
@@xGibbo1 I’m a massive R9 fan but Messi is just simply the 🐐 at their primes messi was better at every main attacking attribute. Dribbling Messi. Passing/link up play Messi. Goalscoring messi. Only reason this is a convo is Nostalgia
I can't lie, prime R9 > any prime version of any other player. Based on ability alone he's the best ever for me.
I could tell you Messi at his prime could dribble past more players than Prime R9.
I could tell you Prime Messi scored more goals than Prime R9.
However,
Could Prime R9 create chances by giving defense splitting passes like Prime Messi?
Was Prime R9 a set piece specialist like Prime Messi?
Joe’s presenting skills are increasingly getting better and you can see from his rise in confidence level. Maybe it’s the Arsenal effect😂
More of this please. This was entertaining. Also keep lescott
Messi got 91 goals in a calendar year in his prime. This will never be replicated. He was absolutely breathtaking, we will never see the like again.
Messi could have scored a thousand goals or any number you want in a calendar year, R9 is still the best
@@fernandondawana9786nostalgia merchant
91 goals in a calendar year wasn't even his prime.
@@Wladislav was his best season in terms of goals. 2015 was insane too.
@@EggSarneyWZ Yeah, he was a much more complete player later on.
Prime Messi won 4 ballondors in a row btw and scored 91 goals in a year 💀
Messi Prime! Has to be. This guy dribbles whole teams. I can’t believe this.
As a CR7 fan idk how this was a question
Search for R9 dribbles....
@@sasukebyak search for messis
@@sasukebyakMessi still has way more solo goals probably most in history
So did R9. R9 was more direct and made them look like little boys. Messi was short and quick and made them look like stationery objects.
What 🤯 Gareth Bale over David Beckham on free kicks. I can't believe this guys
Has to be Beckham just has to be
R9 forever. He is just so insane.
Always the 🐐🐐
Injuries are the worst
Frightening in his prime, for a player to be as physical as he was and still have the speed and skill was ridiculous
@@kiely4561 he had the best trait for every attribute of a striker. Quicker than anyone else, you couldn’t push him off the ball, the most naturally skilful and effective player. Completely two footed, good in the air and unreal positioning. If he played in today’s game with more protection and advanced sport science and recovery there would be no comparison with anyone else
@@xGibbo1 do you remember playing him on international superstar soccer pro 98?, they made him almost cartoonishly fast lol
Enjoyed tha 👊🏻
Also PRIME MESSI all day! He was literally unstoppable, could take the whole team if he wanted, I mean he's done that on countless occasions, even out of his prime.
Brilliant content guys, except for the bale over beckham call which was uncalled for! :D
Fenomeno in his prime was unplayable. Totally different style of play from Messi but he gave opposing defenses the business.
Absolutely cold video
Crazy to think messi and r9 debate lol I love r9 but that is madness. Messi is a better goalscorer, dribbler freekicktaker, vision, passing off all time. Remember prime messi was scoring 91 goals In a year and averging 60 goals after this plus a crazy amount of assists.
As great as R9 was, the nostalgia sometimes is insane. Prime Messi is literally the greatest EVER player. Prime Messi had 113 goal contributions in one calendar year. The disrespect to Keane and Becks is also way too real. Keane won more than he lost against Viera and was the leader of a dominant decade for Man United
R9 is to this day the youngest ballon D’Or winner, and youngest fifa POTY he had more G+A than Messi and CR7 COMBINED before his knee injury at age 23 so you understand how insane that is? And he was doing all that vs the likes of Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, etc these legendary defenders feared R9 and have even been quoted as to stating as much. Maradona himself said R9 at peak is the greatest player he’s ever seen
Prime R9 was 20....
You should know you are comparing a player who took 11 years in the same club from amateur to professional the whole team was built around him only then he was able to score that other.
While the other was completely new to this team still came 2nd in ballon d'or that season which was robbed of course otherwise he would be a 20 yrs old winner.
Prime Messi was unplayable and unstoppable. There’s no debate. 90 goals in a year says it all.
Against La Liga bums, yes, not against Maldini, Nesta, Desailly, Cannavaro and Thuram in their primes.
@@Al-ji4gdlove the saltiness
@@Al-ji4gdyeah and Messi played against bums like Ramos, Vidic, Pepe, Terry, Lahm, Ferdinand, Carlos and also the same Cannavaro you mentioned whom he made look like a bum himself nutmegging and dribbling him at will
@@shivankawasthi5590 Cannavaro was a couple of years from retirement when he went to Madrid, numbskull. And none of the defenders you listed are on that level. Ramos? Vidic? Pepe? Butchers, not defenders. Terry and Ferdinand? More overrated Englishmen. Compared to the likes of defenders R9 faced, most of those guys ARE bums.
Messi set the record for most goals in the year (91) while also setting the record for most throughballs (73). He’s a much better dribbler, passer, playmaker and goalscorer but you’re comparing him to r9? The disrespect is crazy 😭
much better dribbler and goalscorer ? HAHAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
r9 before his injuries was a dribbling GOD who regularly dribbled past the whole team.
@@aranyaism why are you questioning goalscorer? Messi has 800 career goals with 91 in a year at his prime.
R9 is never cutting through Madrid in UCL semi final like Messi, he’s never scoring that 2015 cdr final goal forget encara Messi. He isn’t close to Messi in terms of dribbling.
Messi holds the record for most dribbles completed all time 3100+ and counting, at the age of 35 he’s still leading Europe in dribbles.
@@aranyaism also pique has more UCL goals than R9, he’s never even won one. So overrated it’s crazy
@@Kehley82828 people disrespect messi's skill like the guy doesn't have arguably the greatest attacking arsenal in history, r9 was ana mazing dribbler but people would be lying if they told me he could slice through 5 defenders on run from box to box like messi has done multiple times throughout his career, not taking away anything from r9 but i didn't have to be there to see him, u can see most of his footage on youtube and his career highlights are not on messis level even before his injury messi still scores more beatiful goals for me and messi isn't even a highlights player, if you watch most of his full games when he was in his prime the guy was by far the most effective player on the pitch in the modern era and its not even close
Prime R9 never reached 50 league goals in a season or 73 goals in all competitions in one season or 91 goals in one year. And on top of all of that Messi is also the greatest playmaker off all time he got the most assists in the history of the game R9 doesn’t have that side in his game. But respect R9 one of the greatest ever tho
Messi broke R9’s record for most league goals in a season in 2010 when Messi was 20. Different levels imo
Yr take is a fact for sure💯... however even if Messi did not score 91 goals still for me his prime would be better...even if Messi scored just as much goals as R9 his prime for me is still better...cause Messi is beyond stats....his dribbling, technically better...can dribble the entire team multiple times...R9 I stil haven't seen him taking as much players as Messi although his dribbling was great but Messi's dribbling only Maradona you could be on par or better...not R9 tho.... however other than Messi Maradona Pele and arguablyy Cr7 and Zidane, even if other strikers or players had better stats,R9 was still better cause of his technicality and all around game
R9 was great for sure.
But to say he was better than Messi is absolutely insane
My guy joel looking in shape
Really enjoyed this show, was different. I think an England only segment would be good like who is best between Shearer & Kane, Rio & JT and more
Messi have a better 5,6 seasons than Prime R9's seasons lol The the so called greatest era of defenders was the 90's SerieA & Ronaldo Nazario only had one great season(1997/98) in that league but It's funny how in his unstoppable season the great Prime R9 was beaten by Oliver Bierhoff in the golden boot
ohh they never mention that.
😂😂 and Ronaldo was still the best
R9 was insane but I still take Messi .
Was the level of defender really better when R9 played? The game is much faster and more athletic now.
Yes. The defense was better in the time of R9. And defense was even more cruel as well. R9, Van Basten and Maradona played in a time, where defensive players tried to hurt you as well. And the rules were not set in play yet, to protect players.
@@pimjcb9964 why are you acting like R9 played in the 80s? I don't recall him being butchered at the 98,2002 or 2006 world cups.
I would say the amount of truly great players were more in abundance during Ronaldo’s era, Messi caught the end of most of their careers as a teenage coming through, the likes of Zidane, Figo, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Hendry, Bergkamp, I mean you could literally go on forever at the amount of class there was in the late 90s early 2000s
In a way yes and no. The game today gives more leeway to forwards than in the past. Also the modern great defenders - Ramos and Pique can’t even defend. So yes defenders today are worse. You can argue that some older defenders weren’t as athletic but they could tackle, some will break your leg as they did R9.
@@StringerBellz Ronaldo had his debut in Europe in 1994. He played against the defenders also Marco Van Basten played against. The better and harder defenders we don't have anymore. in 1999 he got his first major injury. Eventually that injury in later years caused his short career really. In the beginning of the 2000s he had some years he could play, but was never the same as his early years.
R9 with TWO cruciate ligament injuries was still an prolific centre forward, imagining him being injury free such as Cristiano and Messi and genuinely think he would be number 1 on an all time list.
Facts
You can’t do what ifs in football.
I'm Brazilian, but prime vs prime... it has to be Messi. R9 is my favorite of all time no matter what, but prime Messi did more
Prime Ronaldo r9 was definitely the reason why I fell in love with football. He was the reason why I practiced step overs. But prime Messi is undeniable. He offered alot more going forward, whether it was dribbling past 5 players and scoring or putting in through balls for team mates score. Prime Messi just has too many tools going forward.
For one game I’m still choosing prime r9
@@FatTodd 103 G+A in one season 🤫🤫🤫
@@markxnzz9840 why are you shushing me you clown? It’s a reasonable opinion held by many who have watched both. I’m not taking anything away from Messi you dickrider. Prime R9 would have had 109 goals in that Barca side against the defenders of that era.
@@FatTodd Lmao no he wouldn't. People always argue about ifs and buts, for Messi we don't have to do that. We've seen it. 0 UCLs 🤫🤫🤫
@@markxnzz9840 tell me you are a teenager or younger without telling me you are a teenager or younger:
Bale over Beckham in a must score free kick? That has to be a joke
Agreed! Not even close!
I’m 38 years old. So “my” era Zidane & R9. I’m glad Messi is being compared to the REAL Ronaldo. R9 is the REAL 🐐. I absolutely love Messi, but nobody matches prime R9. The best footballer I have ever seen in my lifetime. I’m glad he’s starting to get his recognition 🎉
Messi is miles clear lol
R9 ain't even T3 all time best brazilians lol LMFAO even Romario was better than him
Picking Bale over Beckham for free kicks is an absolute travesty. That's Souness levels of stupidity right there.
Ronaldo all the way!!
he was unstoppable when he was fit
I remember watching Schmeichel making unbelievable Saves every week, Peter was the Greatest
91 goals when? Thought so
104 G+A in a season 🤫🤫🤫
@@El-Paptron7 r9 was beyond goals. The most magical and destructive force ever seen.
@@aranyaism r9 doesn’ touch Messi as a playmaker.
The idea that Henry didn't turn up for France is such a myth - the French media worked overdrive to put him down. He was crucial in Euro 2000, contender for player of the tournament - ripped those goat Italian defenders to shreds in the final too. Was very good in 06, France's best player in that final too - tho obviously Zidane stole the show in the tournie overall.
He won French player of the year a record 5 times. He was France's most important player after Zizou, but people treat him like he failed somehow.
I think people ignored R9's greatest aspect is that he is able to be the focal point of all the teams he plays in. A 21 year old Brazilian football player, who does not train, carried the whole Barcelona team in just his first year with the team? A 23 year old Brazilian football player, who does not train, becomes Inter Milan Captain after his first year with the team?
Ill Fenomeno is not touchable in just a 5-6 year span.
Keane was smaller & physically superior to Viera. Non contest. Keane better captain, better passer, better defensively & mentally stronger.
Ruud would be like Haaland in a City team
Better. He's the best finisher in the box in his time
There’s always a sentimental & nostalgic tax when you mention R9. Messi is simply just football…
Recency bias has you blinded kid
He's nowhere near R9 he's behind CR7 and many others
@@Yuri_Elias 😂😂 did u say hes behind cr7 and many others, nah that's hilarious can't take u seriously, call me when cr7 makes a wc final let alone win one
A lot of nostalgia merchants in the comments. Prime Messi was light years ahead of any player whose ever worn a pair of football boots. 91 goals in a calendar year while being the best dribbler in the world and a world class playmaker. R9 an all time great but he’s got like 14 CL goals ever…Messi got 13 in 11/12 alone
r9 was the best dribbler and goalscorer in the world by a mile when he played. Messi plays is a much much easier league than R9 did. Serie A in the 80's and 90's was by far the best league in the world with all the best players in the world playing there including Zidane, van basten, maradona, Maldini, baresi, baggio, platini, nesta, gullit, del Piero etc etc. R9 faced much better defenders in his era with less protection. Which is why people like Harland, Mbappé, lewadowski regularly scorer 50 goals in a season in this era. None of them can lace r9's boots.
I think Mbappe needs some more respect, considering he’s not even in his prime yet, he is currently by far the best player in the world, him now is comparable to prime henry. He might not be there yet but he’s not far off
How these men chose Bale over Beckham I'll never understand 🤣
I'll be honest prime time player it's got to be messi🤷♂️ he lived the way more than the hype!!! His prime is different each and everytime he played!!!
I don’t think you have seen enough of r9. But messi the goat.
@@Egjesus24 stupid logic
@@LoyalFan9383 ?
@Alta yeah but tell me which is messi's prime... when he was young he made mistakes but still scored 40 plus goals and won a lot.. and also his games and movement were magic when he's old he doesn't have energy to run but still manages to win games by contributing something crucial even now he is rivaling someone like Mbappe who is 23 in his prime!!! R9 was strong, dribbling past people I have seen that only few matches and he's great don't get me wrong but messi managed to sustain prime form for years!!! Also R9 himself said he's seeing a younger version of himself in Mbappe just saying😆
@@Egjesus24I have seen R9 play in Madrid and Inter and few barca goals.. don't get me wrong he's like great but for me the ones messi scored were more magical for me!!! Those goals shouldn't have been possible and yet he's scored some which has stayed in my mind... if you ask me Mbappe or R9 or Cristiano or Zidane or ronaldhino I'll say r9.. but messi or r9 ....always messi for me✌ ..
The mad ting about R9 is tht everyone is talking about him at 20-21yr old! Thts when any other great baller (Apart from Pele) is still discovering their own game!
R9 was scoring 5gls in a game at 16yr old, in the Brazil league at their prime!
God took his knees and gave us CR&Messi!
R9
Keane
Mbappe
Rooney
Kompany
RVN
VDS
Yaya
Beckham
"Prime Henry vs Prime Van Nistelrooy" that's a better comparison and always a good debate.
Henry would easily win it and I love RVN
I’d probably go with Henry, Ruud was incredible though
Ruud was a ruthless finisher. Henry was a ball playing forward. Question is whether you want a pure number 9 or you need a forward who would carry the team.
Messi.... Away from 2, 3, 4, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. How good is he!?
No one is touching Prime Messi.
Pele beats him all day and every day and three times on Sunday.
@@bikesnippets You havent even seen Pele, relax.
@@bikesnippets ya but that fraud only played in santos he never showed up in europe did he, messi is unbeatable. proved everywhere in every competition. with far inferior side then that of brazil with fraud pele.
I can't understand how anyone is picking Viera over Keane. I watched every game they played against each other & 90% of the time, Keane was better not to mention the number 1 driving force beind multiple title wins.
Becks vs bale shld be part of the piss take section
Prime R9 for me best striker I've ever seen in my day
I think we all know 'that' season Yaya had... Unbelievable!
Bale over Beckham on free-kick??
Mental picking Bale over Beckham
This is funny, almost disrespectful. Messi scores 91 goals in a Calendar year, not counting assists, playmaking, etc. R9 was never even close to that amount of goals (and he was a striker!!)
- I love prime R9, but prime Messi is just better. As a pure striker R9 pips him, but Messi has him everywhere else. Nostalgia is for the weak. (P.S. Anyone who thinks "91 goals in a year" Messi was his prime doesn't know football.)
- Prime Viera
- Prime Henry (Mbappe is not in his prime yet, I assume.)
- Prime Rooney
- Virgil van Dijk in his peak season so far peaked higher than Kompany has in his career. But Kompany does have some great performances with Belgium to back him up.
- Prime Ruud van Nistelrooij vs Sergio Agüero is actually a tough one. Career wise it's Agüero, but prime only?
- Prime van der Sar and prime Peter Schmeichel are basically a tie.
- Prime Yaya due to that one season.
- Prime Beckham takes the FK.
It's just about generational thing...an emotional attachment.......i saw a teenager recently rating prime Hazard over Messi 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Lol… that makes no sense. Messi has always been far ahead of Hazard- before we knew Hazard, when we knew Hazard and after Hazard became a flop. What metric would they even use to justify the choice?
Bale over Beckham… How to make me considering unsubbin 😂.Not gonna do it though. Nice talk
VDS getting well earned respect.
113 G+A in a year and we pretend it's a question?
Messi!
hahah yeah Messi had a lot of protection in those early clasico matches 2004-2008, he was getting killed every game lol. The game changed and Messi adapted, but he was also great in the previous era.
i remember zidane kicking messi and messi almost making roberto carlos fall on his ass, i now they were older, but the way people talk about the 90s players as if they were superhuman is nostalgia 100%
R9 had to struggle from 2 awful injuries, he was able to recover and come back, he played on pretty good things but one thing people tend to forget, Messi is amazing but he played on one of the best teams ever, if not the best, he had prime Iniesta and prime Xavi next to him. R9 also had amazing players but they did not play as good as that Barcelona team, the galacticos were good but not very much as a team. On the other hand, back then, football had, my point of view, way better defenders, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Stam and players were allowed to use more "tricks". Have you ever seen someone tackling Messi the way they tackle R9? They "respect" Messi too much, my opinion, not saying to kick him or anything but they should use a bit more of strenght against him. The way Liverpool did.
@Alta Don’t underestimate Messi’s physicality. The dude is tough and scrappy.
@Alta how did he play against ‘better defenders’
That ‘played against better defenders’ is the most stupid logic I’ve ever heard
Messi has been fouled too many times and if anything you should give credit to Messi for not having a horrifying injury (he was injured for the whole season in 13/14 btw)
Well Messi played the best defenses across Europe and dominated
People talk as if Messi was not being kicked constantly. A prime Messi will dribble you out of your socks, split your defense with a crazy pass to create for his teammates to score against you and bang in a free kick to nail your casket. You guys are lost in the nostalgia of the beauty and explosiveness of his play but he does not offer more than a prime Messi will offer his team. Messi keeps it simple but EXTREMELY MORE EFFECTIVE/PRODUCTIVE.
What's Messi's prime years??
Messi to me seems to have been in his prime since day 1 to this day
Prime Rashford easily
Prime Macheda (i.e 1 game)
Rudd was a BEAST! He’d have begged goals for City absolute records!
Ruud was more goal hungry than Aguero. However Aguero was an insane finisher. He scored different types of goals. On face value Ruud but if I think about it more then Aguero.
R9 was the first player that made me fell in love with football. The complete forward
R9 stats in 96/97:
Appearances: 49
Goals: 47
Assists: 12
insane.
Messi stats in 11/12:
Appearances: 60
Goals: 73
Assists: 30
Levels to this.
@@markxnzz9840 in a weaker league lol, there was more physical in back then Ronald's era, there levels to this.
@@kesenaememere8520 lol la Liga is better in 2010s than in 1990s
R9 is a combination of peak Messi & CR7 with Mbappe's pace
😂😂😂😂😂
Skill greater than Messi, physique better than cr7 and and strength and speed way better than mbappe
Spot on 💯
and a tinge of prime Hazard
R9 was never at peak Messi level,your hanging on to nostalgia
This R9 retrospective analysis is ridiculous. Messi is so clear of him it's a joke. Messi can run a game on his own he's the greatest playmaker of all time and let's not get into his goal and assist stats because that ends the debate already. Also to the naked eye Messi is so much better than R9 just of what he does with a football. I can't think of any attribute R9 has that is better than messi. Maybe strength and raw pace but that's it
R9 weak foot was impeccable. He could score with both feet easily
@@flexermc4333 and yet messi who is heavily reliant on his left foot still managed to score 800 career goals, people might put messis weak foot as a reason for him to have a disadvantge but all that shows is that messi with his left alone could match the greatest goalscorers of all time who could score with their heads and both their legs and their height
R9. All day.
I love Keano but Viera was an absolute monster. And unfortunately Yaya was better than both at their respective primes 😩
Also prime Henry Christ almighty he was a terror. Gave me nightmares and the best player the epl has had on the eye test, but I think Mbappe will have a better career by the end of it.
Prime Rooney all day. He won it all in 4 positions.
I'd go with Edwin Too. I think he was Uniteds greatest ever.
Also Beckham is highly disrespected. The man was a specialist. Those passes, man. The closest comparison to him in that regard in modern football is Trent. And he's doing alright isn't he?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Can't go wrong with Messi or R9 just a matter of taste
lmao, tuned out once they made that first pick
Whoever says Prime R9 is better than Messi doesn't understand football sorry it isn't subjective. 2012 Messi has 91 goals and 32 assists in 69 games. Ronaldo has never even come close to this. Messi was a better goal scorer in and outside the box, better dribbler and could single handedly run a game by creating chances too. Ronaldo wasn't much of an assist machine as good as he was sorry but no comparison
I rate R9 but prime messi is better. Messi is an absolute monster. I feel people pick R9 because he was a striker no one have seen play the way he has. Understandable. Messi won games single handlely on his own.
Prime r9 is a combination of messi and cr7. He was slightly better than prime messi. But to each their own
R9 won games single handedly for Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, and AC Milan and against defenders like Maldini and Nesta and Desailly at their peak.
The only two games I remember Messi taking by the scruff of the neck and winning were the 2011 Madrid semi final and 2015 Bayern semi final. That’s it.
@@Egjesus24 no way
@@shahzadirani for ac Milan he did nothing and Messi has won tons of match on his own and injuries are part of the game
@@Egjesus24 😂😂😂😂
" R9 NEEDS that special treatment, Messi JUSTIFIES that special treatment, they're not the same, stop forcing this comparison"
Seriously Bale over Beckham for free kicks? Omg. Gotta to be kidding. Prime R9 over Prime Messi anytime of the day man.
R9 cannot do everything Messi does what is this guy on about
Nostalgia merchants.