Prepping for Winter: Arianne I Part 5
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- The line-by-line analysis of the Winds of Winters sample chapters continues. We now take on Arianne I...part 5
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Arianne I Sample Chapter:
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I think it's realy cool the way you introduced the Idea of a Liana Stark that was capable of manipulating Raegar. It is a nice way to imagine her, and she becomes so much more then just a dead sister mother to some character. And Arianne... she is the eyes to the coolest parts of the books in my opinion...I truly hope she gains some clarity of her fathers real intentions
The biggest issue I have with the general idea of the dornish master plan is actually this. Why would he intentionally not give any idea of the plan to his daughter and heir?
@@e22ddie46 Because she's useless. In A Game of Thrones Cat tells her uncle that "a woman can lead wisely like a man" and Blackfish responds quite rightly that "the right woman can". So far Arianne is much more Cersei than Asha or Dany.
As always, you've provided an insightful, richly detailed analysis. The myriad sub-plots (and even sub-sub-plots) would largely have escaped my attention were it not for your efforts. Thank you for enriching and enhancing the enjoyment of the ASOIAF story for myself and many others. I look forward to your next video series.
USArmyMedic 1 facts
USArmyMedic 1 Fr Thank you Preston for really enriching me in this wonderful series!!!
word
He steals all of my ideas... the bastard.
That's an interesting Lyanna narrative and pretty compelling. The star-crossed lovers seems too cliche for George and the kidnapping narrative seems even more absurd.
The scene of Arya playfighting with Mycah and beating up Joffrey has major Harrenhal Tourney parallels. The playfight sounds like sex, and there is a Joffrey Lonmouth who was hit in the head at a tourney and died of his wounds. Anyway it's a deep rabbit hole, there is countless symbolism indicating that the Arya/Mycah/Joffrey scene is key to what happened with Lyanna/Mystery Knight/Rhaegar at Harrenhal. Elia Sands shows us that maybe Lyanna was no a little shy virgin maid, and when you read Sansa complaining about Arya enjoying riding and sweating and that she has to rub mud on herself to soothe her "itches" she caught with Mycah...
I suspect Lyanna kicked Rhaegar's ass, or Richard Lonmouth's ass, or Robert's, when whichever of them stumbled on her and whoever she was "playing with" while searching for the Mystery Knight.
Whenever I think of Quentyn, I picture Morty saying "aww geez" in middle age attire.
I'm always curious Preston, since I almost never notice all these themes and metaphors you point out, do you re-read the text a lot or do you generally pick these kinds of things out on the first go?
Thanks for expanding so much of ASOIAF through what you do!!
For these Prepping for Winter episodes, I read the chapter at least 5 times.
You're most insightful, thanks again :)
Preston Jacobs thorough, Geoffrey, thorough
I've reread the main series thrice, and i passively listen to the audiobooks and I must say finding the well hidden easter eggs and thematic symbolisms and parallels are as satisfying as taking in the surface narrative the first time.
Simian Stareyes yrs, I’m looking forward to rereading the books I’m winter and seeing if I can spot stuff
I actually like these Elia/Lyanna parallels you've found. They're by far the least tin-foily and plausible thing you've come up with.
I'm guessing Aegon is gonna fall for her once they meet. She's being set up hard for something.
I actually think Aegon will fall for Jayne Ladybright. Arianne the Princess who needs allies fighting over Elia Sand for Aegon's affection, in fandoms mind, Jayne Ladybright, the ignored third party wins the war because princeses like Duncan and Robb are connected to Jenny and Jeyne. Ladybright is also an interesting name, Lady Bright, and Brighflame is the name given to Prince Aerion and his son, Maegor. Aegon finding a Targaryen princess to replace Daenerys wouldn't be weird.
What a nice Mothers Day gift. Thanks Preston 😊
First off, I've been theorizing that Lyanna was the one manipulating Rhaegar for a LONG time. Though my evidence was weak. I simply thought that since the Starks were in a matrimonially manipulative frame of mind at the time, she got it in her head that she could improve upon her father's notion with House Baratheon, by hedging House Stark's bets directly with House Targaryen, albeit the incipient House Targaryen "Reformation".
Legendary effort sir.
Why are you the only one see the series for what it is? The story continues to subvert the traditional tropes such as noble knights, just kings, good vs evil, the helpless princess etc. But after all people still think it is going to end with Dany and Jon snow getting together and fighting the white walkers. Astonishing how people see what they want to see even after being proven wrong multiple times. Love you Preston
I don't understand how the world can function for the 20 minutes after Preston drops a video.
Finally: assuming Arianna fails again at Cyvasse, Doran is patient, has backup plans, and is cognizant of House Martell's way of assuming power. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sand Snakes spring into dazzling effectiveness after the Arianna project gets rebuffed. And in the wake of all this, I wouldn't be surprised if Danaerys finds herself getting the hots for Daemon Sand or Nymeria Sand. Think about it.
_When he was no more than sixteen, Prince Oberyn had been found abed with the paramour of old Lord Yronwood, a huge man of fierce repute and short temper. A duel ensued, though in view of the prince's youth and high birth, it was only to first blood._
I think the offense was not insulting enough for the duel to be to the death. Sure, Oberyn was young, but I think his high birth was just as if not more important than his age when they decided it would be to first blood.
And by the way, who's the _we_ in "we will see you next time"? As always, great video. :)
I also imagine the fact she was a paramour and not a wife lessens the offense.
Great series Preston! Cannot wait for the next video! I wish you would make a video explaining how you contextually analyze the works of GRRM and how your theories are crafted!
Yes! I was hoping you would continue with Arainne and not with Arya, Sansa or any of the Battle of Fire POV's. Let's here more about that chapter, which was my fav beside The Forsaken
Love you Preston
Preston!!! thanks for the early birthday present! 💜
Happy Birthday!
Preston do you think it's likely that Oberyn and Doran planned to kill one of the Yronwoods? It gives them a reason for sending Oberyn away and later he fosters his son Quentyn there later as an excuse.
Oberyn can travel and collect people for their cause and Quentyn becomes a valuable pawn in among the Yronwood camp.
I believe Oberyn targeted the Edgar Yronwood, yes. Doran had returned from his trip abroad and was likely already considering a scheme.
In terms of the Yronwood/Martell rivalry, there is surprisingly little mention throughout GRRM's writing on Dorn of inter-ethnic conflict between Sandy/Salty/Stony Dornish. Basically none, and as the Tolands indicate, the individual regions are far from homogeneous. In fact, the Ullers - who are considered "Sandy" Dornish - are descended from Andal adventurers so your assumption of ethnic strife having a part to play in the feud is not backed up by any of the literature. It's a classic example of you reading too much into something and then making an assumption based off it. However, it's a fairly logical conclusion to make, I made it myself. This is why I actually know a good amount about it. I've been down this road before.
6:10 - Keep in mind the social norms of the world you're talking about. I'm not saying suspend all of your own social norms when reading the text - no doubt GRRM will expect people to keep theirs in many circumstances when reading the text, but don't assume the lofty position of implanting our real-world values unto the characters within the fictional universe. Fourteen seems to be the age of young-adulthood within this universe. That said, I think you're onto something with the parallels.
Woo! I can't wait for the next Arianne chapter!
I doubt Miss Sand meant a double entendre. She's likely an excellent jouster. That part instantly reminded me of Brienne, who refused to marry & obey a man who failed to best her in combat.
KellieDoll28 yes, but that doesn'tmean GRRM didn't want you too think about the double meaning.
That's what I thought at first, but given the men's oblivious reactions, I'm inclined to believe she was at least hinting at double meaning. The way they responded really made it seem like they did not at all understand what she was saying. Not that it's really important anyway..
Well, the big tip-off is the reference to spanking. To kids, it is a punishment for wrongdoing. Between adults, it's often a sexual reference. The knight was clearly meaning it in a dismissive way, claiming that she was still a child. Her response seemed to indicate that she sees him as more of an equal, and that she was not a child, ergo she twisted his reference to spanking from a punishment towards children into a sexual pun between adults. That said as far as the tilting part being literal vs sexual innuendo, I'd actually lean towards it being literal in this case.
KellieDoll28 Brienne and her are quite different, it would be more of a stretch to compare them. The sexual connotation is pretty obvious, even more by the fact that she says she'll let him spank her. It's clear dirty talk.
That has been the most insane, female rationalization of that statement Ive ever heard. Just a whole army of Briennes, out there? You dumb cow.
waking up to a preston video, this morning is a good one
btw, ain't the focusing on the dragon in arianne's game is a callback to aegon and tyrion game?
Amir cohen-frost Wow, it does make a nice parallel doesn't it?
Interesting food for thought, I do wonder if Rhaegar did find Knight of Laughing Tree Lyanna and did have to joust with her, (literally and figuratively...) When he later gives her the floral crown we have the "Lady" side and so the parallel between Elia Sand and Lyanna is somewhat complete when we get Lyanna as "Lady Lance"
Perhaps Jorah was worried that Viserys would move in on the "who can bang dany game" because... you know... targaryens.
so that's why he may have escalated the situation in Vaes Dothrak
If you think that Doran sent both of his children on failed mission.. DO you think that his doing it to kill off his Daughter and Eldest son so that his youngest son inherits? Or do you think that Doran is actually bad at schemes?
awesome, looking forward to the ariane ii.
Great as always!
Thank god, A new video! :D
If we compare Quentin to the other potential heir of one of the 7 kingdoms who also grew up among enemies and also has an older sister : Theon. There is basically almost an identical situation where they might as well have been strangers to each other but when the moment came down to it theons older sister absolutely proved her love for him and even as far as the newest chapters she's just trying to end his suffering. So estranged siblings that are still loyal to each other out of familial love isn't entirely new
Preston what is the Martel plan? Why send both his children away? I understand that Quentin is protected as is Arianne but still there is trouble ahead.
I think a lot of people are forgetting, just because GRRM is writing a book set in Medieval times doesn't mean the book is going to have morals from that time. GRRM is a hippy (and American) he obviously doesn't agree with a relationship with such an age difference, so just because it was common in that time period, doesn't mean the themes of the books won't show how weird and unethical it is from our modern perspective. A character might be considered an adult in universe, but that doesn't mean GRRM can't see the character as still a child (and I would say he makes it pretty clear that he is against forcing teenagers to be adults). He's making a negative comment on (by modern American standards) underage relationships that happened in the past by showing it as creepy and off putting.
Another great series. I love any and all videos you do but prepping has been my favorite lately
Regarding the sanity of Daenerys, the R + L = J & D theory solves that problem in the perfect way and also makes Doran know that Daenerys is Rhaegar’s daughter, brought up in Dorne for the first years of her life (the lemon tree thing) and thus he can be certain of her supposed sanity.
So if they do a Robert's Rebellion prequel series, which is a big possibility given the 4 different scripts, will they age up Lyanna or age down Ned, Robert, and Rhaegar because if not, this would only be legal in Germany or Turkey.
Also I love how every romanticizes these relationships (Lyanna/Rhaegar, Dany/Drogo, DanyJorah) but nobody brings up the age difference being creepy except Preston and Viserys. Preston is Viserys, Bloodraven, and George RR Martin confirmed.
Still mad at that one time when Preston got to meet GRRM and they couldn't have an in depth discussion about the plot due to it being a dinner with other guests..
Assuming they use the same actor as Flashback Ned, I'd say they'll age up Lyanna, like they did with pretty much all the children in the main series.
In a strange way, I'd kind of disappointed if they dramatically aged her up. (but totally not because I want to see a mid-20's year old man trying to hook up with a child) Everyone has this extremely romanticized view of Rhaegar, even Ned to a certain degree, and everyone has nothing but honorable and respectful things to say about him.
But he's actually just some guy who wanted to fuck a kid 10 years younger to fulfill a prophesy. Not out of love.
Like he's honestly the exact same as Drogo was with Dany. He found this girl he knew was special and possibly the means to an end of a prophesy, charmed her, took her away, basically forced her into a Stockholm Syndrome situation (whether Lyanna really loved him back or not I'm not sure but I know Preston is gonna touch on it as he said in a comment below) and then made her birth "a savior." Like he might have been good on a harp and gave money to the poor, but come the fuck on. I actually used to respect the guy until I really started to think about what he did and now I feel dirty for ever liking him.
Same with Drogo for that matter, but at least Drogo actually grew to care about her. BUT she was also 14/15 so that doesn't really excuse it. And if you factor in outside interference by Quaithe/Marwynd and her "empowerment dreams", nothing about that relationship was healthy.
manband20 the weirdest ship I think is the Sandor Sansa ship its creeeeeepy.
manband20
Westeros is inspired by mediaval Europe. There was no teenagers, only kids and adults. So Rheagar isn't really creepy for wanting to hook up with 15 year old, not from his society's point of view.
I don't understand why Doran is sending his children, his heirs, on these incredibly dangerous and useless missions. There's so much risk and no expected gain.
Maybe he’s got a secret second family in St. Petersburg, Florida. Tell your shitty teenaged royals that they can be part of your master plan if they do a suicide mission for you.
Love your work Preston, but the tilting metaphor is a leap strong enough to get you into orbit.
had my headphones on full volume when the video started, RIP me.
Same, except my phone was under my pillow
doran at it again with that 4d cyvasse
👍🏻👍🏻 seriously everyone else who tries to make a song of ice and fire/Game of Thrones videos should just quit. Preston has it covered.
You missed a great opportunity for a joke. You could have said, "Why would anyone put all their eggs in these potential basketcases?"
I can't wait until you finish who was behind killing bran
12:52 No wonder Arianne would marry anyone even like Dany if she was hard and cruel, dark and dangerous.
if lance is a double meaning of to fuck does "lady lance" mean elia is tryna peg? thats what im taking from this... and elia is a stand in for lyanna what were they getting up to in the tower of joy?
Lots of tilting, evidently.
Sometimes I need to take a break from Dorne videos and theories, so I do something easy and simple by comparison.
Calculating the cosmological constant for instance...
Im pretty sure dany was 14 when she wed drogo, Im trying to remember how old sansa was when she married. I wonder what we would find comparing the outcomes of relationships with different age gaps? Id think if we were being shown examples of one type wed be shown something to compare against?
Yeah she was 14 when she realized she was pregnant so she would have been 13.
Praise be to His Grace, Preston of the House Jacobs, First of His Name, King of the Books, Show, and the Future Spinoffs, and Protector of the Lore.
I just thought it might be worth pointing out that Doran's purposely inappropriate suitor selection for Arianne aligns rather well with his purposely inappropriate quests for his children.
knowing what we know now, how Dany is gonna end up going off the deep end, @16:39 makes more sense.
What about Elia Sand being a love interest for aegon? they are more if an age than Arianne who is a woman grown...
She is a bastard and would be super far below his station.
I just listened to this & I'm 3 yrs late but I'll correct Preston when he says Arriane was horrified by the looks of Lysono Maar, what?! Did you read the god damn text, she thinks Maar is the most "exotic creature" she has ever seen, but something about him made her skin crawl. She is physically attracted to the guy, but it is the vibe he gives off that she finds horrendous. The same for Darkstar by the way, she was disturbed by him as well, despite finding him attractive.
and we are back....
Arianne 2, with CotF. That sounds intriguing.
shinarit you should read the chapter if you haven't, a lot of cotf forest references
so I was rereading affc and noticed that Margaery's septa is named Nysterica...rhyonish ancestry much?
So Lyanna was just being a wild child when she ran off with Rhaegar and Rhaegar took advantage of this to try and fulfil prophecy?
It all comes back to the water gardens.
If only lords can make marriage pacts, can they make them for their wards? For example, Ned is a lord and Theon was his ward, could Ned make a marriage proposal for Theon and would people see it as perfectly legal?
Not if their actual fathers were alive, I would imagine.
No-one brought this up when the Lannisters married Sansa, despite her brother being alive. Sure Robb being a rebel could be a counter argument, but you'd think the Tyrells would at least try to bring it up if the law wasn't clear. So I'd say yes a Lord can marry off their ward.
The idea of sex between adults and children also comes up with the possibility of an Arianne-Aegon marriage and also the Margaery-Tommen marriage.
Yh I find it weird Tyrion thinks aegon is no more older then 15 or 16 and looks like a boy but Aegon is meant to be at least 19 which is a huge difference
Lyanna is also a 14 or 15 year old girl at the time she was abducted or ran of with Rhaegar, she has the mind of a teenager, and thus is probably not thinking about the consequences of her actions. Arya is compared to Lyanna, a kid who got in trouble a lot in Game of Thrones. Lyanna could of been so dead set against marrying Robert Baratheon that she communicated to Rhaegar and could of made it sound like Robert was the abusive type (which he later on was) and tricked Rhaegar to coming to her aid, and damn the consequences, the only downside in her plan was not realizing that Rhaegar was hellbent on having another kid. I'm not saying that Robert's assessment of Rhaegar is dead on, Rhaegar could of come to her aid having been deceived or to save her before Varys's spies reported to Aerys that she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and on thing led to another and she got knocked up by Rhaegar.
AND WE ARE BACK
Thank you Preston, I want to kiss your feet every time I see these videos.
What many are forgetting is that even mid evil times. Called people at the ages of 13 to roughly 17 children. Many nobles realized the dangers of marrying to young. As it would ruin the ability of the bride to have chidren. That was not a wanted out come.
:) thanks Preston
Are there any revealed incidents of people seemingly being crazy or stupid but it turns out there was more to it in the series so far?
Will you cover the other previews? the tyrion and grey beard chapters?
Thirdly, I hypothesize that we are going into a phase in TWOW wherein whenever POV characters go off on a quest, they're going to get ganked.
Quentyn's quest ended in an, "Oh." I think Arianna is going to be our window into Aegon's camp, until she fails, gets desperate, and then valiantly gets themselves eliminated by some rival Cyvasse player. (And who would want to do that? Who has other suitors for Aegon? Maybe Littlefinger... Maybe the Tyrells.) Arianna meanwhile will serve as the Camera That Rides (ha!!!!) in King's Landing as Connington goes off on his own quest... Wars will need to be fought, even if they secure the Throne... mayhaps they'll want to put a swift end to Euron, to secure the legitmacy of their rule.
I don't even know what's going to happen to Cersei. At this point, I enjoy her show character so much, I hope she brings us finally to Casterly Rock, as it gets caught between sellswords and pirates.
Dany will be busy burninating Essos throughout TWOW, I'm afraid. Mayhaps she'll take Dragonstone in the Prologue. The Seven only know who will be holding it by then
It seems Arianne and i share a common taste in men.. . When Asoiaf inevitable gets rebooted you should definitely be one of writers, at least i can rest assured it would be an adequate representation
Nice!
Nowadays sex between a 16 year old and 22 year old would be considered taboo. However, back then kids had to grow up fast. You’d likely have one or two sibling die around you, your family may go off to war. And if your part of the small folk you have to grow up even more quickly. In a medieval scenario sex between a 16 year old and a 22 year old is not taboo at all. In the modern world a 17 year, 11 months, and 30 days old person can’t legally have sex with a person who’s 18 years and one day old. I think Lyanna did fall in love with Rhaegar though it is a decent age gap it’s not totally impossible although there may have been some manipulation of Lyanna by Rhaegar so that he could fulfill his prophecy.
wait wasn't khal Drogo around his 20s and Daineris in her 14 when their married? parallel?
Drogo was 30 I think
#WhatwouldEliaSanddo?
finally! new vid every day pls
08:22 Didn't Ellaria pointed at Arianne I part 1 that Elia had to be a lady and not a lance? Does it mean anything to this? Besides it is pointed also in the part 1 that Elia had her own mind on that matter.
Woohoo!
Secondly, this is my favorite video of yours for some time, Preston. Maybe ever? Well, this and the House Farwynd valentine. Though the Frey Civil War was great too.
I guess I'm only critical of your Sweetrobin fantasies, and the extent of the genre-subverting speculation on the Weirhivemind.
What does WWESD mean?
What Would Elia Sand Do
Ok thanks
notice me senpai
Noticed!
^-^ ermagerd,. is presrnjerkerbs
*A gallant game is not a winning game*
"As Ned Stark learnt"
Or I guess he didn't.
I think that the Elia Sand jousting challenge is more in parallel with Brienne telling his proposed husband that she would only get "chastised" by someone who can defeat her, and then proceeds to beat up both husband and marriage.
Then Randyll tells Brienne that he will not protect her from sexual assaults because she refuses to conform to her gender roles, and the Brave Companions threaten her with rape before she kills them.
She takes on the role of protector and "dealer of justice" from the knight/lord who traditionally has monopoly over it.
Very similar to how Elia S. practices jousting, a male-dominated activity, or how Arya practices fencing and is later recruited by the House of B&W to become a Faceless Ma.. Assassin, another male dominated role.
On a side note, later Brienne even kills Rorge (who also threatened Arya, another gender-subverter, with rape in ACOK) and assumes part of the "smallfolk protection" role of knights, showing that while she clashes with her society's view of her gender, she is still very much tied to her class identity in what she can and can't do, much like Arya.
This is of course going to be very interesting if she ends up interacting a lot with the BWB in TWOW.
PRESTOOOOOOOOONNNN!
"The stars of dusk" would surely be heading west! rather than east.
Thank you matey? :)
Hell yes.
Why is the new Jorah modeled after the show version? Doesn't he have black hair in the books? Or am I mistaken?
i don't think his hair color is mentioned, or at least i don't remember
YOUR ENEMY ALSO HAS AN ENEMY
Hello, Arkin "Lovemachine" Ruark
Lovemachine Ra Ra Rasputin, Russia's greatest lovemachine...
Can't believe the Mercy chapter isn't next. Why God ...whhhhhhy ...why?
7:12 😂 this girl is crazy
14 year olds were almost certainly not considered children in medieval times since they could be married off or participate in war at that age; although with some stipulations. Probably a closer parallel would be a 14 year old then and a young adult now.
Yep
Children take part in war now, today. That doesn't change that the Lyanna Rhaegar relationship is gross no matter the truth to it.
When I'm not sure what to do I always ask my self, "what would Elia Sand do?"
when is the next podcast between Preston and Resteam?
Epic 👍
i2amAsecretTarg ! ✨🐉🖤 your name!✨
Thank you sweetling 👍
Let me get this straight. Daemon Sand says he never saw Viserys or he never saw him as an adult? Strange!!
I'm so excited to see where the whole Dorne plot is heading.. I mean it gets a lot of attention and chapters, but it still doesn't seem like it's crucial in the grand scheme of things. To me - though I might very well just be missing a lot - it's the only plot the function of which isn't clear yet.
Words are wind
Whoa! Preston!
Elia's "I'll let you spank me.... knock me off my horse" isn't her asking for some rough sex, she's implying he'd have a hard time besting her in combat, which he would need to do in order to spank her (and treat her like a child, which she is asserting she is not.)
Is there sexual innuendo there? there sure is, but its not really an invitation to sex, but to a beat down by a girl.
And the original "star crossed lovers" were 18+ year old Romeo and 13 year old Juliet.
Shakespeare was obviously not going for a normal relationship between those two. And about the books and/or stories from which he borrowed Romeo and Juliet (amongst which some are actually romantic, apparently), I forget how old they were, so I don't know.
yeah i agree i think preston thinks deep into things, beyond what is actually there
how is elia sand a weirwood? I didn't get that part
I imagine the *dragon* is a powerful piece in cyvasse akin to the *queen* in a game of chess. But, similarly, if your chess strategy ignores all but your queen, you're sure to lose to a better player. Appropriate both because the queen is feminine and powerful, just the way GRRM likes them.
Like heroine
Goddamn I honestly didn't catch the double meaning
Unless Doran is crazy or stupid lol that cracked me up
Podcast?
I got the impression that Arianne was frightened by Lyseno because of how feminine he looks.