DIY "Tube" Distortion - High Voltage Neon Drive Pedal
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2021
- Gas discharge tubes such as neon lamps conduct non-linearly, and have some other really cool conduction properties - like negative resistance and hysteresis loops, for instance. This project uses a neon lamp as the main distortion element in a drive/fuzz pedal, for some pretty unique tones and behavior.
This is also a higher-voltage version of my "blank slate" distortion/fuzz/overdrive pedal and the high voltage opens new possibilities such as stacking sounds on top of each other by putting components in series.
Schematic: drive.google.com/file/d/1TUXz...
Parts' list: drive.google.com/file/d/11PDV...
Music in this video:
Staycation - Corbyn Kites
Sunrise Drive - South London HiFi
Heated Seat - Silent Partner
#psychotenuse #diypedals
"so be careful over here on this side because its almost mains voltage."
*grabs bulb and repeatedly plugs and unplugs*
Hahaha yeah not the best role model perhaps :P
I checked, and you can shock yourself with it if you hit the strings hard.
Came here just for a quick "oh let's see how the neon bulb sounds", stayed for the excellent talk and demonstration of all the other devices. Nice work!
Thanks! Glad you liked it :)
Really cool non-conventional clipping element!
Haha yeah, actually I'm surprised gas discharge distortion is not more of a thing, they are used for voltage regulation and stuff, like diodes are at low voltage.
It sounds like a very thick fuzz, really good .
You are amazing. You are such a good inventor and teacher. Set up a basic class live and I will attend, I want to learn about how to make circuits, inventive ones, useful and fun ones. Awesome!!
Hahaha thanks, always nice to get a compliment... but I would be remarkably unqualified for something like that :P I've never actually learnt electronics and I'm really fumbling around this stuff myself. For example, just a few weeks ago I learnt that I've been referencing my audio inputs and outputs incorrectly all this time, which is why my circuits never worked with wall adapters and I always had to use batteries xD
@@PsychotenuseYou're doing a great job! Keep it up, I'll be watching and learning. Best to you.
wow the tone was wayyy better then i expected amazing project🔥🔥🔥
Thanks! Glad you liked it :)
Brilliant! Simplicity and a fantastic sound. This is my next project!
I'd love to hear how it goes :)
This is so great! Love your channel!
ur stuff is consistently brilliant dude
That is quite the compliment, thank you so much haha
Sounds divine man greatest distortion i ever heard, so musical.
I guess you were waiting all your life for gas tube distortion xD
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Cool video! Well done! Higher voltage pedals sounds good.
It's a cool little experiment. I'm a firm believer semiconductors do it better than tubes, but there's also a lot involved to get the circuit there. The compression of the control grid in the tube plays a pillar role in it's most desired characteristics, and so does the limited bandwidth in comparison since they tend to cut off at about 10 Khz when used with guitar. *The last few days, I've used a pair of diodes in a feedback loop on a very simple high gain transistor amplifier, and I'm getting the dead on distortion texture of a tube, but it needs significant refinements with some RC networks and truly, more architecture to be truly useful.
About 9 years ago, I pieced together some of my original designs and I had a sound dead onto a 5150 and a Mesa Dual rectifier, but 100% semiconductors. I had the definition of tubes, the saturation and texture of tube distortion, and just needed more gain to shred metal. I'm restarting that journey and this time, I will complete it!
Your experiment taps into what I've long since necessary which is very high voltage distortion.
Most of us want that zapping, zinging froth and glassy buzz of tubes without the price, and I'm ranting just to say, it can be done.
There’s a company called surprise sound lab that makes a pedal that uses semiconductors in a high voltage circuit that sounds pretty good.
I'm completely blown away ! that is SICK !
Thank you!
:)
Very cool project! sounds amazing
Thanks! Glad you like it :)
Huh, I'll be damned it actually sounds pretty good! The way that tiny tube lights up under load is pretty cool too!
Glad you like it! Thanks for watching and commenting.
I really like this pedal! Very cool idea.
Glad you liked it, thanks for watching :)
Very cool G, thanks for the circuit and parts list
That was very cool and very interesting. Great job.
Thanks!
Thanks. I think I might experiment myself after seeing what you were doing there.
It's pretty cool
Glad you like it :)
Pretty nice preamp pedal!!!, sounds like the 70's amps distortion. Grettings and keep it up!!!.
Thanks! :)
great video! I've been messing around with neon bulbs in audio circuits for a few years, but yours is the first I've seen about it online. my solution sounds different due to different components and layout, and also I'm using bass. I'll make a video and message you when it's ready :+)
just finished building one of these .In combination with the amp I built based on yours I am pleased with the results.
Going to try a diode valve👍
That's awesome!
Thats a really nice clipping behavior!
This answers so many questions for me!
Thank you, thank you!
Really? It's a pretty specific idea xP
Glad to be of help though!
@@Psychotenuse Now I have a bunch of questions! Hahaha!
This is so dope! Ended up buying some neon diodes to hopefully build one of these…thanks!!!
Awesome! Glad you like it :D
Oh yes, I LIKE high voltage distortion! I want a little box like that with the clips so I can fiddle with different combinations all night!! Super frickin kin Cool!!!
Best video I've ever seen in my life
Thanks for the comment, it means a lot! Glad you liked it :)
@@Psychotenuse I plan to build this, I have a large collection of little neon bulbs, different voltages and colors. Excited to compare them. Thanks for your videos!
@julesl6910 That's awesome! I would really love to see your results, since I have only ever tried this one bulb.
Ok, I think I have to build this. Thank you for a great video!
Glad you liked it!
I’ve never smashed that like/sub button so fast. Cool vid, thanks. Cool fuzz tone too.
Thank you!
Thats a cool project man!
Glad you like it :)
Most excellent, my friend. Really gets the imagination going. Would love to see further exploration, perhaps to include analysis of existing commercial pedal circuits such as the Hudson Broadcast (and/or any others that employ small transformers). Thanks for sharing this ✌️🤘🤙🔌🎛🫡
Glad you enjoyed it :)
hell yeah, thats so interesting to watch!
Wooooow man you are a genius.
Subbed for coolest pedal idea ever 😁👍
Thanks! Glad you liked it :D
Thats a good sounding distortion too. I like that.
Glad you like it, thanks for watching :)
Oh man you nailed the 00s grunge tone without even trying hell yeah. Might have to build one of these into my amp project once parts start arriving- I’m using one of those “Tube Fever” kits off Ali in combination with a couple op amps and some clipping diodes to build a low wattage practice amp that still has some of the features from larger amps.
Awesome!
Cool device ... thanks a lot for sharing
Glad you like it, thanks for watching :)
Awesome channel and video! My first flirtation with gas discharge tubes involved replacing the full wave rectifier tube with a mercury vapor rectifier in a few amps - with a time delay relay to ensure the filament had enough time to warm the tube. Never considered trying these tubes as essentially clipping diodes.
Ha! I didn't even know gas discharge tubes could be directional. Goes to show how sometimes an idea obvious to one person isn't to another and vice versa...
@@Psychotenuse Check out the channel El Paso Tube Amps. He has tons of videos on AF and RF amplifiers, and among them he did a few on gas rectifier tubes - mercury vapor, argon, and xenon. As you noticed with the sharp gain cut-in with your pedal illustrating the distinct threshold of ionization, gas tubes used as rectifiers have an advantage over vacuum tube rectifiers since they have a nearly constant voltage drop regardless of current draw - this happens to be the voltage required to ionize the gas. For example, a 5u4g vacuum rectifier may have a significant voltage sag when loaded up to 200mA, but an equivalent MV rectifier (like a type 83) will have a stable 15 volt drop throughout its current range. As you mentioned elsewhere, gas tubes are often used as a voltage reference for regulating circuits; this stable voltage drop - due to the ionization potential, regardless of current draw - is precisely why they can be used effectively for this.
Yeah, lots of cool properties! The one that's most unique to me is the little hysteresis loop (not pictured in the video) between the turn-on and turn-off states, something you don't see in any semiconductor devices that I'm aware of.
Very impressive, it has that old timey lo resolution fizzy kinda sound. I think I might try to make me one. 😁👍🏽
Glad you like it! Would love to hear how your build goes if you do :)
Really cool!
I don't know if you will see my comment but I have beem making DIY pedals and this is a genius idea man. Keep up the good work!
Glad you like it! Thanks for watching and commenting :)
Thx! Good stuff!
Cool idea. Good results.
Thanks :)
@@Psychotenuse no problem. Thank you for the ideas, man.
@@Psychotenuse I'm going to be making a new channel for electronics and stuff. I'll let you know when I get some content.
I enjoyed you video because of the innovation you showed in getting those different sounds,
You might also want to try a Diac, it is like a low voltage neon bulb....
Keep experimenting, it is good for both the mind and the soul!
Amen :)
pretty cool stuff. let's se what else is going on here, 'cause I'm up for a fun weekend project.
Thanks you very much from Indonesian.
I already builded sounds perfect
Awesome, glad you like it!
I like high voltage distortion!
Glad!
:)
Great idea! Reminds me of the Plasma Pedal by Gamechanger Audio.
That was partly the inspiration, I'm sure! Thanks for watching :)
Totally cool!
Thanks :)
Awsome!
Works well as a fuzz pedal
damn I enjoyed that video a lot! You should make more of these and consider selling some custome made pedals! I'm sure there's tons of people interested in that
Glad you liked it!
I don't think I'd ever produce and sell them, but I am planning to make another of these in a proper stomp box form soon for personal use on my pedalboard.
That would be super interesting in eurorack format!
Great! I would love to hear that plugged into a Tube amp, like a Marshall ou something similar!
The last configuration sounds pretty warm but still nice but of gain
Fxxxxxxxxxxxxxg amazing ! Best video , Love this , peace man !
Hahaha thanks! Glad you liked it xP
@@Psychotenuse love that man , you know what you are doing 💪😁📸
That’s so funny to me XD. Awesome
This rules! 😺
Just like to point out your a great player also . Hopefully you cash out before this gets to the big companies . Very interesting sounds
Hey, thanks! I don't really mind if some company picks this idea up, in fact it would be pretty cool to see it on shelves, haha.
@@Psychotenuse copyright is pretty ridiculous on circuitry anyway
I would like to mention that getting shocked across some fingers on one hand cannot kill a person. However, it may cause burns if the amperage is high enough. Not sure how much amperage it would take to cause permanent nerve damage. I only shocked myself once on a hand with 120vac, and this just caused muscle spasms in that hand for an hour.
Always be as respectful of high voltage as if it were a spinning blade.
Definitely good advice.
Amazing as always
Keep doing the great work
Edit : sir could you please build a simple hall/room reverb pedal .
Thanks :)
Yeah so effects like reverb and delay (a reverb is just a collection of very short delays) cannot be done using analog circuitry alone. You need either digital processing or mechanical movement to get any kind of frequency-independent delay. There are some "analog delay" pedals but they are sort of 'half-digital' in that they use a discretized time axis.
It would probably be possible to build a reverb pedal using a popular microcontroller like an Arduino. Maybe something I try someday but I'll have to learn how xP
Also why would you call me sir lol that's funny
Pt2399 might work as well??🤷🏽♂️
Haha I didn't know about this chip, of course that would work :D
Next try MOV ( metal oxide varistor )
Very interesting sound! :)
I was looking at these on mouser a while back and wondered if you could use them for a VCF. This is cool too.
Not immediately clear to me how you'd use it for a VCF but if you have a high voltage DC rail it is really easy to make an LFO with one of these (literally 3 components).
Killer man
I noticed you haven't put out a video since last year, but I just found this and thought it was amazing (though electronics is unfortunately completely over my head >.
Yeah, I've not uploaded pretty much since school related activities started back up. I do have plans for a couple of videos in the coming months, though.
As to using gas discharge tubes for an amp, the problem of course is that they have no amplification capabilities that I know of :P
Maybe multiple stages of gas distortion would have a cool effect though, like how you get multiple stages of vacuum tube distortion in an amp.
Bro one word
Eddie Van Halen
Y E S❤❤❤❤❤
This is fascinating! I'd love to see your schematics. I'm currently almost finished with my rat pedal cone, which I've modified to include a 9-way switch that will choose between different colored LEDs. The 9th setting leads to a row of 8 LEDs in a circuit borrowed from the Boss Heavy Metal. I'm looking forward to seeing if it works.
The schematic is linked in the description :)
Glad you like it!
Could you share a sketch of the LED matrix you used at the end of the video? Also, what voltage is used for power? 9v?
Thanks! This kicks ass!
So I came up with a network like this imgur.com/a/HVgTLwY
looking for something whose I-V curve has negative curvature, i.e. the static effective resistance increases with voltage. R1 here should be 10 - 100 times bigger than R2. When the voltage is lower than the threshold voltage, most of the current flows through R2. When the voltage is higher than the threshold voltage, much of the current flows through R1.
Two of these networks connected anti-parallel gives the squelch network I showed.
As for the clipping part I don't actually remember exactly what it was but it's diode-resistor series pairs connected in parallel.
cool!
grandma: where are my food containers?
Lol this is the one time I didn't actually use a food container xD
I think it had visiting cards
So cool! Do you think this would work as a euro rack module? It could light up your setup in a dark performance
Sure, why not
haha this is so cool! :-)
Thanks :)
This is great! Do you have a schematic for the squelch network you used?
Edit: found it on another comment!
Maybe split the signal in 2, with some slight difference like mod or delay, and then both signals have their own neon tube. Like eyes. Then put a skull or cat picture on it
Hahaha, I see you are a true pedal designer at heart!
Uow, fantastic! How many volts was the circuit powered?
In the video it's running off a 12 volt adapter. It would probably work fine off 9 volts, though.
Can you link to the step up transformer you used.
I really couldn't, unfortunately, because I used a salvaged transformer from an old linear power adapter. You could look for 240V to 12V transformers or for 120V to 6V transformers (you would wire them in reverse, of course)
interesting. theres a minute capacitance when its not conducting... picofarads... still sucks some of the top end out.
remember, it STRIKES at ~90V... but it CONDUCTS at much lower voltages once it strikes. about 20...
so you clip the wave when it peaks out, and then... theres this interesting effect... it will always pull the waveform back down to the conduction voltage, only conducting whilst enough current exists to maintain ionisation. how much power is the amplifier delivering, resistance, frequency, etc...
if the waveform reverses before ionisation decays... it will continue to conduct. if it doesnt reverse fast enough, then the neon will stop conducting and only strike again as it hits that 90v peak again...
so the deacy characteristics as the amplitude and frequency and ionisation /deionisation rates all interact are particularly interesting... would have loved to see some scope traces? im assuming high amplitude high frequency signals will tend to "reverse conduct" far more...
now i gotta throw this into a tube somewhere... this is only one of literally HUNDREDS of ways of messing with this concept... thought of before but never bothered trying?
Thanks for your very detailed comment! Glad you liked the idea :)
Big fan of the channel and your projects! Is the step-up transformer in the audio path in this circuit? I'm new to electronics and still figuring out how to read schematics. If it is in the audio path, does the frequency response of the 1:20 transformer matter? Like do I need to find a 1:20 audio transformer or power transformer or does it matter? Thanks!
Yes, the transformer is in the signal path. I'm sure it affects the tone, though I'm not sure how much. I'm just using a step down power transformer in reverse; I'm sure a specialized audio transformer would perform better though, if you have one.
@@Psychotenuse thank you sir! I was curious mainly because I was having trouble finding any 1:20 audio transformers and was hoping a power transformer would do!
hello, very good video. The project is phenomenal.
I only had three questions.
1-Can a direct current of 15 volts be used for the TDA 2030?
2-If the transformer is T1=1:24 (5volts/120volts) what would change from the schematic in googledrive?
3-at time 5:42 you used a led bulb, can any be used?
Thanks for watching and commenting :)
1. Yes, the TDA2030 can be run off 15V.
2. That transformer should work fine. You'll be operating it a bit outside its voltage rating but probably not enough to damage it, particularly since you'll probably be way under the power rating.
3. The LED bulb is being used as a clipping element here, so clearly an incandescent bulb will not work. A fluorescent lamp might do something interesting, but I can't promise you it's not dangerous to try. Even among LED lamps, only the simpler ones will act as a clipping element. Some fancier LED lamps may have complicated driving circuitry in them, in which case you won't get the kind of result you see in the video.
would be cool to combine this with an LDR for a dirty compressor
Haha. Could be done, yes.
You should try to make a boost style pedal from this
That would essentially just be an op-amp boost.
Thanks for your educated containt, may i knor your schema please
Thanks for watching :)
If you mean the schematic for the circuit, there's a link in the video description.
oh wow you answered my questions right there lmfao
Really good project. What is the power supply voltage value that you are using? Is it 9v or greater?
Glad you like it :)
I was using 12v in the video, but it should work fine on 9V.
@@Psychotenuse Yeah, it's an excellent project, I really liked it.
Wow
I just referred this to Mattias Krantz as a suggestion of something to consider in his next project btw :)
Haha, not really his usual kind of content I suppose.
@@Psychotenuse well... his last project was a piano with a Tesla coil discharge for each key, and he is also a guitarist, so possibly of interest :)
Hi, thanks for another cool idea. Is there any reason why non inverting application of TDA2030 couldn't be used here? I have some small noninverting version PCBs handy, and maybe with input resistance much greater than 1K it wouldn't load guitar as much?
Glad you liked it :)
Nothing wrong with non-inverting. It requires a split rail power supply, but if you can provide that it should work fine.
Thanks! 😊
I have a Nixie tube power supply I was thinking of using for the high voltage in a project like this. How would you go about that? I suppose I'll have to control the signal with a transistor? Conversely I could try to find a transformer but I'm not sure where to look for the right specs.
The point of using a transformer is to avoid the need for a high voltage power supply. If you just want to do it with high voltage that's a completely different circuit.
Can we use a 6v/220v transformer
It should be fine. I would change the drop resistor to around 200k.
Love this video! I am trying to build one myself, but I can't seem to find a transformer that works for this application. Could you link the one you are using here?
No, unfortunately, because I used one salvaged from an old wall wart i.e. linear power supply. It's just a power transformer, though. You can use a 120V to 6V transformer or a 240V to 12V transformer.
@@Psychotenuse oh okay awesome, thank you!
is it possible to put more than one lamp in series or parallel? You should put something like an LM386 in front of the transformer if that's possible so there's more gain o.o the transformer might be adding distortion in a way too
Putting multiple lamps in series will give you much less, if any, distortion. Putting them in parallel could be interesting. The gain before the transformer is not currently limited by the choice of chip, but rather by the supply rail, which sets the headroom.
Alternates can also be (30-200) V mov's and transient supressor diodes..& other non- linear ones like diacs/tunnel diode/ujts'/put's/pin diodes
also how about the effects with a conventional 50/60Hz
fluorescent lamp starter.....
it's not just about their breakdown level & behavoiur that can give different effects....
..Trying various combos with different R/L/C you may discover something extraordinary.😅
Certainly a lot of room for experimentation :)
@@Psychotenuse yes! & then there are the ntc/ ptc types & ldr's too..& many more...
Experimental Holiday season if you are snowed in. 👍
Haha, yeah you could in theory get compression and gating with thermistors. Perhaps the currents are too small though. I think I might do an updated version of my looper over the holidays.
excellent idea, patent your idea. The other thing is that, if the more detailed project could be published? I don't understand the schematic and I don't know about engineering issues. Or Photos of Proyect.
Glad you liked it :)
Not sure what you have in mind though about the more detailed project. What don't you understand about the schematic?
@@Psychotenuse it's okay. The detail of the triangle before the transformer in the schematic. What is that triangle?. What type of transformer does it use? I see that there is a source, maybe 9v. That's right?. And what potentiometers? How are the potentiometers connected?
@@havieralvarez2500 What I show in the video is just a rough "block diagram" of sorts to give an idea of what is going on (the triangle represents an amplifier). The full schematic is linked in the description, as well as a parts list.
if those are high voltage leads... how are you now getting zapped handling them like their turned off?
Hahaha. Well, first of all, I don't recommend you emulate my behavior in the video.
To answer your question, though, I am getting zapped a bit sometimes, but it's not too bad because my hands are dry and I'm holding the leads fairly lightly. I have also tried - for science - licking my fingers and grabbing the leads tighter, and yeah that definitely gave me a good little tingle in my nerves. There are several reasons it's not particularly dangerous. The high voltage side on the transformer is effectively isolated from mains, so I'm not going to have currents running through my body to ground. As long as I only touch the contacts with one hand any currents will be only in that hand. Then the neon bulb itself clamps the voltage to its nominal 90V and the drop resistor limits current further... basically while I definitely don't advise imitating my stupid behavior, I've also definitely not built an electric chair here.
I can't find this 90v lamp help!!
You should search for "neon indicator lamp"
How much for one of these but with everything inside an enclosure except like 2 alligator clips with 6" leads?? And how much for one with only a 12ax7 9 pin tube socket installed??
I don't really see the point of a tube socket, but I guess it would add a couple of dollars to the cost... ?
*output can potentialy hurt you*
hold neon bulb for leads 😅
Cool circuit btw
Haha yeah, I don't recommend you do that :P
I zapped myself with this intentionally in the name of science (in fact I can sort of turn my hand into a distortion pedal) so I know more or less how much it can hurt. I was careful never to touch the two terminals with two different hands because that way the current can flow through your heart.
@@Psychotenuse yeah, i know that, just wanted to point it
Bro which guitar do you use?
It's a Cort x4
Edit: With a no-name alnico pickup in the bridge after the factory pickup went kaput :P
... And a few other minor electrical mods by me
GE published a 500 page manual on their little NE-2 bulbs with tons of circuits. They need light (or radiation) to work, which is why the orange lights on power strip bars flicker in a dark room. The amount of ambient light would probably change your distortion tone!
Do a search for the old Signalite publications. They had all sorts of fascinating circuits with neon bulbs. Including musical stuff like frequency dividers.
That's pretty cool to think about, yeah!
Can these be stacked, how about a sub miniature tube, and can it be transformerless
I'm not sure what you mean by stacked. The neon lamp is not a valve and it has no amplification capabilities. To make this transformerless you would need a DC rail at 90 volts or higher.
@@Psychotenuse stacked like op amps in a pedal
Your questions seem based on the idea that a neon lamp is an amplifier like a valve or transistor or op-amp. It is not. It is a passive nonlinear component like a diode.