Some TREATED LUMBER Rots Faster Than Others! WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?! (Ground Contact Vs. Non-GC!)
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
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Did you know that there are multiple varieties of TREATED LUMBER? And that some treated lumber will rot much faster in certain conditions? This short video from The Honest Carpenter explains the various treated lumber USE CATEGORIES!
Check Out Our Other Lumber Videos:
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Treated lumber and wood doesn't last nearly as long as it used to. This is because we shifted our pressure treatment process in 2009.
For years, Chromated Copper Arsenate was used to treat the vast majority of lumber in USA. But CCA contains a trace amount of arsenic, which caused concern. So, the EPA encouraged companies to switch it out for two other treatment fluids:
Alkaline Copper Quaternary (ACQ)
Micronized Copper Azole (MCA)
These fluids don't protect lumber quite as well, and they also contain a higher concentration of COPPER, which makes them expensive to use.
In order to avoid very high lumber prices, lumber companies began grading treated lumber and treated wood based on how much treatment chemical was present in various grades of lumber after drying out. This quantity is known as TREATMENT RETENTION.
These retention quantities fall into USE CATEGORIES, since different retentions are suitable for various ideal uses.
Use Categories fall on a scale of 1A to 5C.
Lumbers up to the UC3C range are considered ABOVE GROUND USE, or NON-GROUND CONTACT lumbers, because they can't stand up to the high moisture saturation levels in various soil substrates.
However, lumbers graded UC 4A or higher are GROUND CONTACT lumbers, since their retention levels can handle contact with or immersion in the ground...or even directly in water!
These lumbers are used for deck posts, fence posts, structural exterior members, foundation piers, and more...
To find out more about the various Use Categories, check out some of these websites, which have great, detailed information!:
www.decks-docks.com/treated-l...
plasticinehouse.com/pressure-...
wooditsreal.com/2017/05/02/wh...
Thanks for watching!
The Honest Carpenter - Навчання та стиль
Had no idea! Just assumed if it was Pressure Treated, It was good to go for all outdoor use! Thanks for this great content.
Sure thing!
Same
It was at one time, like before 2009 and had a life expectancy of 40 years
I have had far too many PT 6x6 posts rot at ground level in less than 10 years. My son built a house with wrap-around decks and he used milled 8x8 locust posts with T&G locust flooring. It was code approved and should outlast the both of us.
I am a structural engineer, licensed PE, and I had no clue. Just got a call from a contractor who erected a deck I designed 14 years ago. I specified "preservative treated" but did not specify the "grade" of preservative treatment. A few of the deck joists (joists, not floor boards, not posts, but joists) have melted from the middle out. Literally big gaping holes between the top and bottom edges. My google searches led me here. Thank you HC. This is very eye-opening information.
Locally, here in Scotland, every cut in pressure treated wood is regarded as an exposure to untreated wood. Pressure treatment only penetrates so far, so any cut exposes untreated wood. Local mills recommend that treated wood when cut is re-treated to heal the "wound" and offer full protection. We don't use arsenic based treatments. Almost all of the treatments cannot be used in water / ponds or it will affect pondlife. They work on the assumption that pressure treated wood is safe to use for stables etc, on the principle that a large animal horse / cow cannot graze/chew/gnaw on enough wood to cause harm, but at a microbiological level it's a no no, so no using scraps for bird boxes etc
Great info. In some countries they actually dye the lumber with a certain color so that it would be easy to recognize. that's why for instance in New Zealand all new houses' skeletal structure look as if the builder had been Elle Woods from the movie Legally Blond. It's all pink :)
I’ve seen that, Arash! 😆
I've seen pink lumber on the construction site around Pittsburgh Pa. I was told it have an additive to make it fire resistant.
I wish we'd adopt that idea here in the us. Our only choices are green and not as green. 😵💫
Back about 10 or so years, we built a deck on very sandy soil that drained very well. We didn't know about all the differences between PT lumber (above, on, and below ground), so we bought what was available, which included above and below ground, but we used them indiscriminately for the project. At some point, we had to rearrange some of the partially buried lumber and we were astounded that some of the pieces were substantially decayed just shy of a year in the sand. We were much more particular after that when buying PT lumber.
This is so true! I didn’t know and no one will tell you at Lowes!!!!
Employees at the big box stores are there to answer questions rather than to provide an education. I’ve eavesdropped on countless conversations where the customer has so little experience that they can’t even ask the right questions. There are literally thousands of videos on UA-cam about any facet of construction... watching a few of those should _always_ be the first step in any project.
I asked once about the difference at home depot. They all asked each other then made up some BS
@@republicoftexas3261 I went to home depot the other day looking to build a low deck and the rep told me there is no such thing as ground-rated pressure treated lumber anymore. He said there is just above-ground and marine grade and the above ground will do the job. I didn't argue with him but did say that even if you don't carry it, ground rated lumber does exist. I didn't buy anything there.
I really appreciate that you keep your videos short and to-the-point. Thanks for the concise information.
Thank you for this video HC. I had no idea there were so many treatment grades for lumber.
More ways to scam people that don't know lol
@@shanew7361 Yeah, I've seen this one before but never responded to it.
Great information. I did know anything about the grading but I've always stuck to GC lumber when outside. Probably wasted some money, but rather go better than have to replace boards after a few years.
Ethan, I've been using wood for the home projects for many years and amazed at my ignorance about the grades, so thanks for sharing. Also want to thank you for the other video about the circular saw, it was very useful too!!
There's DEFINITELY been a very noticeable change. Thanks for all the info.
Great info! The details that you covered are so important for a successful project (and for saving $$ over the medium and long term) Nice job
Always appreciate your insight & expertise. Had no idea there were that many various ratings for treated lumber. Great job as always Ethan. Keep ‘em coming.
I had a commercial fence contractor building a wildland fencing job for me through some cobbly alluvium. The posts were al pressure treated for ground contact in semi-damp environments. For posts that couldn't be driven to full length because of encountering rock in the ground, we specified treating the cut tops that exposed untreated wood with copper napthanate after chamfering the edges of the cut.
Thank you for explaining the 5 levels of treatment retention for lumber to resist deterioration.
I love the fact that you showed the tags at the ends of the boards multiple times, which I guarantee you no do-it-yourselfer has ever read... ever!
I’m gonna do a whole video on tags before too long, monkey 😁
Thank you, this is very helpful for me & others. When we moved to where we’re at now the back yard was fenced in, the fence post was treated round post. One day I opened the gate one post broke off at ground level, termites had destroyed the bottom part. I’ve learned the hard way about treated lumber. Keep’m coming
Wow, this is an eye opener 😳. Didn't know this. All the best. Peace and good fortune and good health to you and your family. 😃
Yep, seen it many times... people buy the the wrong stuff and put it on the ground for sheds. It rots in just a few years.
Very good videos. Straight to the point with useful and accurate information 👍
Also important to understand the effect of all that extra copper on zinc-coated fasteners. The zinc-copper reaction eats away galvanizing much faster. IIRC, double hot-dipped galvanized nails (not screws) may last ok (especially given the likely short life of the newer PT wood), but for most projects it's worth the extra cost to use stainless screws, hangers, etc.
This video was really helpful. Thanks for posting it. I appreciate your channel and look forward to more. Best to you.
I'm so glad your here for us!!!
Thank you, Patricia! 😄
This was eye opening! I had absolutely NO IDEA there was a difference! Thank you sir.
Had no idea. THANK YOU. Extremely relevant for me as I need to replace a bottom horz piece on my fence that runs parallel along the ground. Just the info I needed!
Eric, if your fnece boards drop down onto that horizontal piece, leave a space between the piece and the vertical boards. That will keep water from being trapped and soaking into the ends of the verts.
Also, it wouldn't hurt to treat the ends of those verts before installing the horizontal piece.
🤗👍 THANKS ETHAN
For educating us … MOST DID NOT PROBABLY HAVE A CLUE 🤷♂️ sad but true 🥹💚💚💚
Thank you for your great content.. keep ‘em coming
Great information.
I'm getting ready to build a treated seawall.
Thanks for the help.
This was extremely helpful. Thanks as always.
Valuable info, thanks for putting this out.
That was super helpful - I never realized there were more than one type of pressure-treated wood. I will need to pay attention to this the next time I buy some.
I liked this video. Just finished tearing down an 800 sq ft deck with gazebo & even the 4X6's are rotted. I'm in a wet climate but still...Non ground contact SHOULD be discontinued. All treated lumber should be treated to the max except for maybe in the water lumber (marine use). Thumbs up my man. I'm 74 & had never seen the numbers on treated lumber. thanks joel
First comprehensive explanation that I have seen. Thank you.
all cuts in pt wood have to be treated with “copper-green/ brown”. once the wood is cut, it’s not protected.
Awesome to know. Oregon loves its cedar air decks. Growing up in MN we always used redwood. Now to save the old trees, lesser wood is used. Thanks for explaining the rating system for treated wood!
Sure thing, Catherine! Thanks for the regional info 🙂
Great information!!! I didn't know that those different types of lumber existed. I only thought there were only two types, treated and untreated. Your information helps me look for a certain lumber that I don't have to replace every one to two years. If Homedepot doesn't have it, I'll go to the lumber yard.
Really good information. Thanks
Its the best day of the week, I'm loving the vids!! I learned so much!
Great information. I've never seen a rating shown in any of the major lumber stores for treated lumber so I'll look for this. In contrast, I have a century home, and untreated 120 year old lumber with some weather contact seems to be in amazing shape... but I know they don't make trees like they used to.
thems old growth trees dont get used for lumber anymore
Old growth trees need to b left alone cuz the electromagnetic earth is effected when they get cut down.
Thanks for another useful video. There are so very many grades of lumber, PT and other, that's it's difficult to know exactly what I should be purchasing or sometimes what I bought from a limited selection.
Back in the eighties, I used to cross the 'pond' frequently to help my dad, rest his soul, with his building projects for his customers on Nantucket and he only used Wolmanised lumber for any exposed framing etc. I remember him saying in '88 that one day people would say you worked that stuff without PPE? He was right and the stuff he put up 35 years ago is now just coming up for replacement. "Guaranteed 20 years minimum wet earth contact" he told me. It was good stuff and at a guess, cos the stuff we did was invariably beachfront property facing into the winter nor'easters, it did the job. I can't find the equivalent grade here in England, more's the pity.
Just had a quick Google and the nearest equivalent is Use Class 4 in the UK, how good it is I don't know.....
Great information thanks
Oh wow! Great info man. Thanks for that. I was actually wondering about this the other day.
Great info! I bookmarked all those websites. Thanks for the great explanation!
Great Videos! Living on a farm I I have opportunity to use primarily CCA thank goodness. Early transition from CCA produced ground contact rated lumber that was lucky to last 5 years above ground.
If you haven't done so already, you may wish to learn about another form of treated wood that has been know for many years; not readily available (import only) but that is changing - acetylated wood. Acetylated wood is non-toxic and process to make replace some of the "hydroxyl groups" found in wood with "acetyl groups" making the wood more hydrophobic. Byproduct of process is acetic acid (salad vinegar) in less concentration that natural content causing tart smell in Red Oak. EMC is closer to 4% than typical 12% so wood does not retain enough moisture to promote rot or support termites.
Process to make is akin to making cigarette filter tow (wood pulp product), but in "Stick Form" - and we all know how long those little frail filters last after being tossed out the window. Process also restores wood close to green dimension and relieves internal stresses; so wood shrinking/swelling and other movement such as cupping is 80% less than that of starting lumber treated - typically pine). Less movement translates to straighter lumber post treatment, installation and better coatings retention. There is a USA company right now (or was last time I checked) using acetylated wood finger-jointed into bottom 6 inches or so of external door jams to prevent that rot you are very familiar with and have produced videos on how to repair. I know number of applications have grown tremendously since I was first exposed to technology/development in 2004 and 1st commercial scale plant is now being constructed in USA.
As a |Baby Boomer, always thought it was "salt" treated, and all of it was the same. A higher price was just that a higher price, not that the wood would last longer depending on where it was used. very useful. see you can teach an old, did i say old? i meant very old dog a new trick :) good job.
That was very helpful in making my decision on a project. Thank You!
I used to work in that industry where lumber was treated..Worked at a treating plant from 1977 to 1981..Was Hilift driver/Yard Foreman..Most of what we treated was for the coal mines..Posts, Caps, Wedges,etc...Sometimes we would do a custom treat for a customer,sometimes Plywood,2x4s etc..Built many of what we would call charges..3 Small railroad type cars that I would load and push into a 40' tank..Generally we did about 3 charges a day...Loaded and unloaded many trucks in those years..Just after I transferred to another part of the company they started doing mostly all dimension lumber ..Some of the coal mines were closing and the demand for treated posts and such had declined greatly.. Though it could be hard work sometimes,I sometimes miss it..
I would love a video on concrete care, like sealer or coatings or whatever to make it last longer and resist the elements/temps
I’ll see what I can do, T! It might require a team-up, but I’ve been looking to tackle some concrete vids 🙂
Sir, You Da Man! Love your top-notch information packed videos and your down-to-earth persona explanations! I was amazed at the various levels of PT lumber. Outstanding! As always, Thank You!
Hola! 🖐Thanks for the video and bringing light to this subject. Like many others that commented below, I was unaware that there was a scale. I was under the impression that PT was a generic term without distinction. Now I know to do a little research when I'm in need of this type lumber. Take care and have a good one, Adios! 👊
Great info. I thought treated lumber was all the same. Very eye opening!
Very very informative …so true I’m in the middle of replacing a upper deck railing board it only lasted 10 years …going to cedar now
Cheers 🇨🇦
Thanks Ethan, good information.
Great video. Thanks, Sam
Great information, thanks got to replace some boards on my deck soon. 👍
Good info, thanks, did not know this. Take care be safe
Thank you, Don!
Hello again Ethan
Thank you for another Great Video 👍
Thanks for sharing that!
Thanks Hassan!
DAMN!!
I feel ripped off as I took treated to mean TREATED!!
Thanks for the news matey
Bob
England
Thanks for the detailed information.
That was great thanks for the tip..👍
Shows how little I knew, I thought treated wood was treated wood! Guess it’s like everything else these days, you got to read all the fine print! Which really sucks when you’re eye sight starts to fail and anything less then a inch high you can’t read! 😂
Excellent. Very helpful. Thanks. God bless.
Thanks Brother That's the truth for our trades.
Some lumber yards around me have already fhased out the above ground material and only offer ground contact material. From what i have seen and delt with myself the above ground treated lumber rots almost as fast as non- treated material. My father built a fence in 1969 that still stands today and looks amazing. To bad we can't find a way to treat lumber today that will stand the test of time.
It’s true, Detroit! PT just doesn’t last as long these days
On my grandparents farm, there’s a 200 foot section of fence with non-treated hedge-apple (woodworkers will know this as Osage orange) posts that were set in place by my grandfathers grandfather. About 20 years ago we ran 2 new strands of barbed wire across that section of fence, and today, the fence still keeps the cows in. Them posts have got to be at least 100 years old.
I am badly in need of a porch rebuild down on the coast. This video is one of the most useful to me at least I have watched anywhere. I knew about ground contact rated but not the sun-gradations. Need a working vacation at the beach? 😉 😉
Home owner myself I'm glad I found this channel.
Very interesting information. Thank you.
I too had NO idea! I do now…and I’ll pay attention! Thank you!!
Thanks for this information. It should be required viewing for employees of Home Depot and Lowe's that really have no clue about treated lumber.
I’d love to help the people in the big box stores, Trinidad! Many of them don’t come through construction, and I’m sure jumping into lumber and hardware can be overwhelming
Thank you for this video.
Wow! You know the saying, a day late dollar short? I had a cedar fence installed professionally back in 2010. Since then, I have had to replace some fence posts. However, that's not the worst part. I like others, thought treaded lumber was one and the same. So the question is, what did I choose?? Great FYI video. Now I know better.
thanks for sharing always learning
Great info here. Also, I love your logo, it's perfect.
Excellent video, thank you!
Thank you for this!!!
Thanks Ethan, most helpful
Thank you so much for this information 👍🏼
Really great piece dude, THANKS!!!!!
Thanks, Ken!
This is great information.
Excellent information, thank you!
Great help, thank you.
Great video👍🏼
Thank you for this Great important video 👍👍
In Australia we use a different coding method. Silly I know. H3 for above ground and H4 for in-ground contact. I paint the cuts as well.
Yep, H1 = laughable - basically pallets that have been heat treated to kill insects that are on the outside of the pallet. H2 above ground, termite resistant - H3 as H2, termite AND rot resistant, H4 ground contact, H5 buried, submerged in fresh water H6 submerged in salt water Tropical. H2-H4 need to be upped 1 level in the tropics, e.g. use H4 instead of H3 in the tropics. Another problem is that the treatment does NOT usually go right thru the timber, but only a 1/4"(6mm) or so from the surface - a local University had to replace all the CCA treated pine in their car park because people were stepping on it and falling into the timber, which was just a thin shell of green pine and the interior was just powdery brown mush. And as someone else mentioned, always treat your joinery and end cuts, most big suppliers will sell the copper salts to mix with water and paint on - remember your disposable gloves, splash glasses and overalls, shower immediately after using (same as for Roundup). There is also LOSP treated timber, applied in a vacuum chamber, generally only comes in H3 grade although H2 is possible, is NOT corrosive to metal fasteners.
Very informative. I know more now than I did 6 minutes ago.
Good info. Thanks, Ethan.
Video is useful, was carpenter for 18 yrs, 12 yrs ago.
Very helpful.
Very good info thank you
Good informative video as always.
Thank you, Raffique!
VERY useful...thanks!
Thanks for the Info .
Wow great video I never knew any of this! thanks.
Good tips.
Thanks for the knowledge
Thank you! great content as always.
Keep up the Great work