Is Vintage Audio Gear Better or More Nostalgic?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- In this video, we explore whether vintage audio gear it truly better than today's modern electronics and loudspeakers or if the fascination has more to do with nostalgia. We talk about vintage stereo receivers from the 70s vs ones from this decade. Are the inflated asking prices for used vintage gear really worth it? Or are audiophiles being taken advantage of? We look at the progression of loudspeakers over the decades and how some of the designs from the early days are absolutely unacceptable by today's standards for performance reasons.
►Read - Is Vintage Better than Modern Audio: bit.ly/vintage...
► Shop Audio Advice: bit.ly/3thUFI1
Recommended Headphones:
Focal Bathys: bit.ly/FocalBa...
Focal Celestee: bit.ly/Focalce...
Mark Levinson 5909: bit.ly/MarkLev...
Sony WF-1000XM3: bit.ly/SonyIEMs
Recommended Subwoofers:
SVS SB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io...
SVS PB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io...
SVS SB-3000: bit.ly/SVSSB30...
Paradigm Defiance X12: bit.ly/Paradig...
Recommended AV Receivers:
Denon AVR-X3800H 9.2CH AV Receiver: bit.ly/DenonX3...
Marantz Cinema 50: bit.ly/Marantz...
Yamaha RX-A2A: audioadvice.io...
Denon AVR-X6700H 11.2CH AV Receiver: audioadvice.io...
Anthem MRX1140: bit.ly/AnthemM...
Monolith M8250x 8CH Amp: bit.ly/8CHamp
NAD M23: bit.ly/NADm23amp
Recommended Powered Speakers:
Kanto YU4: bit.ly/Kantoyu4
Kanto YU6: bit.ly/KantoYU...
Kanto TUK: bit.ly/KantoTUK
Kanto Sub8: bit.ly/KantoSub8
Recommended Speakers:
SVS Prime 5.1 Speaker / Sub System: audioadvice.io...
Polk R700 Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io...
Heco Aurora 700: bit.ly/HecoAur...
Heco Aurora 1000 Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Aurora1000
Klipsch RP-8000F II Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io...
Arendal 1723S Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Arendal...
Focal Aria K2 936: bit.ly/3zVAxi5
Focal Kanta No2: bit.ly/Focalka...
Sony SSCS5 Speakers:audioadvice.io...
SVS Prime Elevation Surround: audioadvice.io...
Audioholics Recommended Cables:
250ft CL2 12AWG Speaker Cable: amzn.to/2vwS9QH
50ft 10AWG Speaker Cable: amzn.to/3DeMTT5
Locking Banana Plugs: amzn.to/2ZQt15x
9ft 4K HDR HDMI Cables: amzn.to/2WiIXeD
Follow us on:
Patreon:
/ audioholics
FACEBOOK
/ audioholics
TWITTER
/ audioholicslive
#vintage #audiophile #stereo
► Correction: Yamaha AS-801 has a sub out with a fixed LPF, but not bass management or level control.
That Yamaha A-S801 is a knockout. I’d take it over the vintage amps of the 70s. As for loudspeakers? Most of them are light years better then what was available back then. For example, the Polk T-15 - that many people turn their noses up at - are much better then many speakers of comparable size back then.
I recommend the Yamaha AS-701 over the AS-801. Both amps share the exact same power figures while the difference is the AS-801 has a built in USB DAC.
@@NeedForMichael999999 The AS-801 weighs 2lbs more so it likely has a bigger power supply as a result. Yamaha is notorious for rating the same power between models but putting bigger power supplies in the step up models. The USB DAC feature is awesome and well worth it, IMO.
My vintage gear that I love to play....Apms/Preamps; Phase Linear, Halfer, Carver, Marantz, Conrad/Johnson, Sansui and Pioneer. I use turntables, R-to-R, CD's, Cassettes, stream music as well. My modern equipment is Emotiva (Diff Ref) MONO Blocks, Parasound, PASS, and Vincent...Speakers vintage: Klipsch LaScala, Khorn, Heresy, Chorus, Dynaco A-25, A-35, Polk Monitor 10 and SDA-1.....Modern speakers: Martin Logan, B&W, Dynaudio, Dali, and Emotiva for the Home Theater (11.4.6)
on paper all their specs are obsolete. everything has greately evolved . but they have kept a special charm in our hearts. they sound nice, its the sound we have listened all our young years... our first love.
My thoughts and experiences with both TOTL vintage solid state,Amps and Receivers are many, and do involve A-B blind and unblind comparisons. I do have every one of my Amps and Receivers re-capped and restored, before comparing to present day equipment, Luxman, Denon, Yamaha, Mark Levinson. I have dozen's of vintage speakers and modern day speakers spread around to multiple houses and loaned out to friends and family. My favorite listening choices for two channel and two only, is a Kenwood 9600, bought new in 1978 and fully restored last year, paired with Tyler Acoustics, modern day, speakers using Seas drivers and tweeters, his Linbrook signatures, monitors, and his new Halo line pair perfectly for classic rock, blues and female vocals. I currently have three Kenwood 9600"s driving three different pairs of Tyler Acoustics of varying sizes, in varying rooms, and prefer it over my $12000 Luxman reference system paired in the same fashion.
I have many varying vintage speakers, Kenwood, Pioneer, Yamaha,JBL, Advent,etc. While they rocked out in the 70's, have beautiful cabinets and driver arrays, grilles, they do not preform as well as modern mid to high end speakers. Esthetically pleasing, good conversation pieces and wonderful memories of "back in the day", they just can't replicate the music that suits my listening needs. I still have them, but rarely utilize them in two channel. They seem to work nicer in AVR, Home theater, non-critical listening situations.
I will sometime combine a Denon AVR for a pre-amp, selector and remote control capability, using the vintage amps/receivers for front speakers in a 7.1 channel system. This seems to work very well, and brings out the best of both worlds for my needs at times. Have used many different Denon AVR's over 25 years, They all have been bullet proof, work horses, un-user friendly remotes, though. Any of the Denon 380?,480?, and 580?, series have been flawless for me.
But, no match for Golden Age, late 1970's solid Receivers and Amps, combined with modern speaker in two channel. Of course, mileage may vary and this has been my experience with the type of music, listening conditions, and volumes, that suit my needs.
I love some of my vintage gear. I currently run a recapped Pioneer SX-950. All the known failure prone and noisy transistors have also been replaced. I know that the specs can't beat todays stuff but at what point do the specs does matter anymore. At what point do we not here the distortion. Is .03 audible compared to .03 or .01? Noise floor may be audible if you put your ear to the tweeter. But who does that under normal use conditions? Will a newer receiver image better? I don't know. I believe that would be a speaker thing more than the receiver itself. If I'm wrong please let me know.
To me it's not about the sound quality, it's the warm feeling of having the AM news station on while your parents bring you breakfast, or the warmth of the music which - although maybe not accurate - was warm and enveloping.
Even if todays stuff is more accurate, it's also incredibly sterile
I enjoyed that memory. Thanks
@@bobc455yep a lot of modern is dry boring sterile and fatiguing
In my living room setup I had some klipsch rp600m with a sub. I found some old jbl l60t towers on craigslist. Had 10 people in my living room for a party. A/b both systems. Unanimously the JBL’s were favored. I sold the klipsch and the sub. Now looking for the bigger brothers. Modern electronics and vintage speakers is a winner
I know there’s superior performance in modern gear, but I personally find vintage to have more character. The vintage aesthetic is becoming a major influence on my setup and my tight budget makes a score very exciting. I picked up my Sansui 4000 receiver for $15 at a yard sale with everything working after just cleaning the pots. Eventually I’ll do a recap. I even scored some JBL L100’s for a good deal. They’re not perfect but I absolutely love them. It’s cool to hear Gene mention the JBL lx44’s, since I just found a walnut pair in good shape at the Goodwill and I really enjoy them. Solid build!
Only problem with the LX44s is the woofers bottom very easily on them. Just watch the bass control when playing them loud. I owned and loved those speakers for almost a decade until I caught the upgrade bug.
@@Audioholics I did actually notice that when I was pushing them one day. Thankfully my medium size room doesn’t need too much. It was $40 well spent and just needed to solder a loose wire for the mid. Thanks for responding!
Don't know; running an Accuphase from the late seventies and early eighties, and every time I bring it in for a cleaning, the shop wants to buy it from me. I don't think today's equipment will last 40-50 years, like the Accuphase. Plus, Accuphase still supports the equipment, as does MacIntosh. Not sure many companies will be around. The golden age of stereo was the late seventies. All Harmon Kardon brands, JBL, Infinity, Crown, Revel, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, AKG, and another 5-10 different brands are all one company now, all those old separate companies have been out of business for years, and even Harmon is owned by SAMSUNG since 2017 (that is, every brand). Their mostly different price points and names for car audio. Don't feel the build quality is there, either. With old Macintosh equipment and tube amps, hard to question their sound. We can only hear so well; another .01 decrease in THD, you aren't going to listen to it. One thing the old equipment does not depreciate the way today's equipment does; I bought my Accuphase used for $300 in 1982, now worth about $2500; I even purchased another for spare parts in the late nineties (it works great also). No need for me to upgrade to a USB port. Do agree on speakers, but the high-end (very high-end in the late seventies and eighties was a pretty good sound. Just like that 428 Mustang, if the numbers match the original, it's a thing of beauty and investment. The Hyundai won't be worth anything in ten years. The old Mustang will probably be worth more. It's not always about the specs; indeed, the ones we can't hear. I mix some old with new for my two-channel system. B&W speakers, REL subwoofers, McIntosh Pre-Amp with (remote), Roon Nucleus. Depending on the piece, super high-end in the late seventies wasn't all that bad. You will be broke if you buy new every few years for a new plug or more channels. Indeed wire has not changed either, though we are sold massive improvements for the last 40 years so stores can make a profit. Today's high-end audio, and even mid-range as you speak about, is a niche market; kids don't sit down and enjoy music; then again, there is another argument, it's compressed, autotuned, not near the quality of musicians and bands we had back then. Now somebody turns out to be a CD/Album/Streamer on a MacBook Pro in the barn. Good musicians in studios aren't even needed, not any work for them. Enjoy the actual bands while you can. Lucky to be born in the late fifties and enjoy the HiFi and musicians of the last 50 years; not going to beat it. That's my rant, I agree with the products you mention, especially speakers, but very high-end in the day, is still good for listening.
This is a great topic. I’ve had a Sansui 9090db - sold it and regretted it. Couple years later bought a non DB 9090 - sold it after I convinced myself only modern gear makes sense. Now I am itching for a Marantz 2330 or 2325! It is definitely the nostalgia effect.
I agree with everything you said Gene. I have lots of speakers, but one vintage pair I've kept is the KEF 107. In 1989 a pair cost approximately $8,000. It has two downward firing woofers connected by a metal rod. The mid-range and ferro fluid cooled tweeter is housed in an inert "head" that looks something like Darth Vader's helmet (very cool). These speakers are designed to be used with the KEF Kube, an equalizer that allows you to adjust the lower cut-off frequency, the Q, and contour. The cabinets are wood, some MDF, and are veneered in rosewood. One day about seven years ago I noticed I was missing low frequency content. I took the speakers apart and discovered that the foam surrounds had disintegrated and that the voice coil on one of the woofers was blown. I hauled the drivers, the crossovers and the Kube up to KEF America in Marlboro, New Jersey. The driver was repaired and the foam surrounds were duplicated exactly as they were in the original speaker. They still sound great. Are they as revealing as my Focal 1028Be's or my Tannoy Turnbury's.....probably not. But there is something about the sound of them I love.
I have a pair of Elac DB 6.2's, Wharfdale Diamond 11.1's and I just bought some old JBL L100 Centurys. The JBLs blow the Elacs and Wharfdales out of the water, and that's coming from a millennial. The highs aren't as clear, but the bass and mid-range are far superior. They'll easily match any $500 - $700 speaker today. If you can get a pair of L100s for cheap and pair them with a vintage (or even a modern) amp, you can easily have a competitive sound to today's offerings.
As a baby boomer, I understand how rosey the 70's appear in the mirror. Yes, I enjoy the rock of that era and thinking back about the concerts, the parties and the fun is well, fun for a short time. I have gotten flack with my peers for suggesting that technology is better now than then. No one has told me that they would like the healtcare available in the 70's. I have concluded that my belief that I have the best sound system I have ever owned with products bought in the last 5 years matters only to me. It's all about the music so enjoy.
I was an active audio hobbiest back in ‘78 and I owned the Pioneer SX-1980. Within months of its release, all the big name brands like Marantz, Sansui and Technics released their answer to the SX-1980. Those receivers ranged from 250w to -330w. At the same time, yes, there was a race to see how efficient manufacturers ( Pioneer, Cerwin Vega, Sansui, etc) can make a speaker and how many drivers they can put in these. Cabinets were shallow and those speakers did not sound good.
My father gave me a pair of Technics SB-X50 speakers.
I don't ever remember seeing them when I grew up, he always had a set of BSR speakers.
These SB-X50's sounded pretty darn good.
They only cover down to 40hz or so due to the older style 10" woofer.
What REALLY surprised me is when I rebuilt the crossovers with modern components.
I went midgrade on all the caps, all film caps used and I used air core inductors on everything.
Now these things are nothing short of amazing, ticks all of the audiophile boxes!
Truly spectacular......
I'm not saying this would be the case for all vintage speakers.
BUT, for this example it was REALLY surprising!.
Gene-thank you for this video. I hear that ears (pun intended) while subjective are important to evaluating audio equipment. Measurements are important too, however, my Sansui 2000 feels like the low end has more body to the sound than some lower watt options available today. Could higher distortion result in adding more warmth to the sound whereas a new integrated amp that might measure better could be lacking in that area?
I own the JBL 590's and have followed them for years. Great speakers, and the wave guide is something special. Just fyi, the $999 you showed is each. However, they often go on sale and last time it was $399 each! Just a crazy bargain!
I have them too. Incredible speakers. They're still available and it surprises me. They came out in 2012.
Damn I thought that was for the pair but recall them being on sale often. thanks
Love mine. My full HT it's 590 LCR , 580s x4 surrounds and then 530s for my hieghts all powered by a rack of QSC cx and cxd amps through my marrants and svs subs. It's epic. It's scary what they can do with that compression horn and still stay together. At the sale price just awesome.
I have a 570 for a center channel and 530's for surrounds. 590's are the mains...
@@chrisj9008 what model subwoofers do you have?
I have a pair of Klipsch Kg4 I bought in 1990 for $500. They still sound very good. In 2019 I bought a pair of KEF R11 on sale for $4300. The Kef just sounds great to me. I was comparing the KEF R11 to the Klipsch Cornwall IV for me the Kef has better sound and clarity. Only thing I wish Kef didn't make their R series speakers in China. My R11 sound better than my 1998 Kef Reference Two.
I have downsized my system due to moving into a small 1-bedroom apartment. I used to have Hafler DH-110 pre-amp, Hafler DH-220 amp, Nakamichi 582 cassette deck, Dual CS 5000 turntable (with Shure V15-VMR cartridge), Sony CDP-C7ESD CD changer, and Snell Type E Series II loudspeakers. Currently, I have converted all of my music sources (LP's, CD's, and cassettes) into FLAC's and play them through a Denon AVR-X2400H A/V receiver. Still listening to the Snells or AKG K240DF headphones. I still love the sound of my Snells and couldn't afford to replace them even if I wanted to. I know that there have been advances in the materials used to make the Snells, but the same design is still being produced by a British company (I believe it is AudioNote) at a much higher price point. The main thing I miss about vintage gear (besides the beautiful styling and appearance) is the larger power supplies that were used.
Thank you for suggesting we post some memories... I have a few here for you;
At a silent auction, my adopted mom bought me the Technics Stereo receiver SA-300 for $15, and the left channel randomly would crackle out or clip out, but adjusting some switches, I could get that channel back. It was, amazingly loud, and had great sound. I could hear it throughout the house, so I made sure to play "good music", which around 2005 was Lacuna Coil, Linkin Park, and Evanescence. The speakers I used were purchased from Good Will, and they had Radio Shack speakers that replaced whatever was in the boxes... 12" woofer, 4" mid, 2" tweeter; all paper. They were set back some with a baffle for the twain(sp?) covering and plastic guard. I still have the speakers but I don't have the receiver anymore.
My birth mom, had the 1989 SHARP QT-CD25, and it was amazing until you raise the bass level any higher than zero. I'd often listen to The Beach Boys, with the bass turned down some, the midrange turned up a but and the treble turned halfway up.... as this boombox had 3 frequency volumes. It was great for playing cd's and cassettes. I was about 10 to 16 when I became aware that it could play anything, like music and cd's, then later I figured out cassettes. It was a top notch boombox, in my opinion, and it only "died" when my birth mom's (now ex) husband, cranked it too loud with all the volumes cranked up all the way. One day, I hope to get at least two of the boomboxes, so I can have one, and she can have one.
Better.
My old Onkyo has the specs and features I want, ("Tape monitor loop,") without the price tag of a small car.
Great video! I first became interested in high quality audio (well let's say "decent mid fi" and above) in the mid to late 1970's. So I've heard a lot of now "vintage" equipment back when it was new. And I agree that today's equipment is much better for the money, in inflation adjusted dollars. Today's engineering and equipment is so much better, sonically better AND more reliable, it's not even close. Which should be no surprise, given the advances in technology, and all the trial-and-error over time which has led to improvement.
Despite today's equipment being clearly better for the money, I could imagine a strong nostalgia appeal of vintage equipment. Especially where someone wanted to purchase the exact model speakers or receiver that they once owned "back in the day", in a dorm room or wherever. Setting up old equipment that you once owned can take you back in time emotionally, and we often desire this, at least briefly.
I admit that I bought some little Koss M80 bookshelf speakers recently (with the long-lasting rubber surrounds, not the rot-susceptible foam surrounds of the M80+), simply because I'd owned a pair over 30 years ago and I wanted to reconnect with that period of my life. They were good nearfield speakers and very attractive in their little wood (veneer?) cabinets, especially with the grills off (I like their D'Appolito configuration, the dome tweeter between two mid-woofers). Crisp highs and sweet mids, though very little bass - but I'm not a bass-head. Are they great overall speakers? No. They are pleasant for fairly quiet nearfield listening, in a small room. They probably aren't even the best for their size and intended function, but that didn't matter to me. What mattered was that seeing and hearing them again took me back in time. In excellent condition they were worth the $120 in purchase and shipping, to me.
If I'd never owned Koss M80's in the past, I don't think I'd want them now. I suspect that a lot of vintage gear buying is not just nostalgia for the era, but nostalgia for a specific product that you once owned, or a friend owned, or that you always wanted when you were younger. But if you want great sound for the money, modern equipment is the way to go.
I have vintage gear , got the stuff I wanted back then but couldn't afford, picked this stuff up here and there before the price jump , I would love some modern equipment but dont have that kinda cash , and yes I have the hole lineup of the cerwin vega AT series 8,10,12,15 others brands of speakers as well, I love my sansui G9000 but my daily is great too a sta2000 realistic reciever hooked up too 4 cerwin vega AT8's it's a workhorse / tank got it at an auction for $5.00 and that put in the rabbit hole that day lol I haven't stopped yet , scored some audio dynamics adc 303ax for $ 5.00 two's weeks ago same auction house hooked them up too a pioneer sx636 the are lovely sounding , my favorite bookshelf speakers would be my elacs found on marketplace for $150.00 few years back !
i had the AT12 and still have a G7500... im keeping the G7500 because of nostalga... my modern Mcintosh gear and Tekton Moabs blow it away 100x.... the AT12s were horrible i learned after getting much better speakers
First off, thank you for the great content. In 1974 I worked in a very large hi fi retail store in the Chicago area called playback. I sold pretty much only pioneer receivers. Being a cerwin Vega fan it was easy to sell. I'm just returning to vintage out of curiosity and nostalgia. I have zero expectations of vintage out performing my current modest equipment (onkyo, oppo, velodyne etc.) I currently don't have the budget for the ridiculous prices being ask. Like old classic cars, the best I can hope for is barn find!
You mention velodyne, a great sub company of before. Velodyne has gone away. They got out of the market and in to LiDAR I think.
I’m still using my 1979 Marantz SR2000 receiver. I love the way it sounds. Detailed with just enough warmth to make all day listening super pleasant. It’s also very powerful for it’s 38 rated watts per channel. Bass, treble, and mid tone controls, along with a loudness control (bass boost). It also looks great.
I had a flagship Yamaha CR-3020, 250W/ch x2 built in 1979 about 4 years ago that I absolutely LOVED. Sold it for $3300 on ebay after buying it from a moving sale along with the matching NS-1000 speakers w/beryllium drivers all for $60, an absolute HEIST!!!. I cleaned it up, did nothing else but contact cleaner on the knobs and switches. Used for a couple of years, ALL ORIGINAL components inside. Sounded amazing, but the selling price at the time was simply too good to pass up. So I sold it for big bucks to some guy in NY who "had one when he was a teenager", which is why this nostalgia discussion seems absolutely valid to me, and he just had to have it. A good piece for sure, but I took that money and upgraded my AVR in my media room to a Pioneer SC-LX901 and couldn't be happier in my decision. I ended catching another sale for a Yamaha M70/C70 amp/prepro from the mid 80's, 200W per channel, and that replaced my 2ch setup amp left vacant by the sale of the CR-3020, and run it with the NS-1000s. I hear almost nothing in the difference in sound between the 2 "vintage" amp units, and spent less than $100 to replace the one I sold for $3300.
At this point, the vintage audio game is just flat out robbery if you're not finding it outside of these selling circles.
Great video Gene! I agree with you 100% about vintage speakers from the 70's & 80's but not so much about receivers and amplifiers. I'm a tech that restores these beasts and the key is fully and properly restoring them. The upper-mid to higher-end Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, Yamaha, Kenwood, Hitachi and yes, even Radio Shack! receivers and amps from he late 70's/early 80's can sound quite excellent after proper restoration. Being a broadcast engineer, I have a soft spot for FM as well.
I just finished a beautiful Pioneer SX-850 receiver (rated at 65W/ch) made in May 1977. This thing is built like a friggin' tank and is an absolute pleasure to work on. Parts are still readily available if needed as well, 45 years later! I doubt most modern gear will be around 45 years from now, let alone be serviceable. You can see my full restoration thread over at audiokarma.org if interested. I go by MarkyM over there.
I just ran some tests and THD is well below .04% up to 75W/ch, the preamp is quiet, frequency response is flat and the RIAA phono EQ is spot-on. These things look and feel amazing too. The tuning knob is machined out of a solid hunk of aluminum!! and the volume control feels solid and silky-smooth. I paid just over what this cost new back in '77 (just over $500) and put about $150 worth of parts into it (parts prices are scary-high right now) I am confident that will last another 45 years. I have my modern 5.1.2 system that I enjoy yes, but this is for a small, simple upstairs stereo system with a modern Fluance RT85 TT, a Bluesound Node 2i fed by Roon and a pair of mid 90's Phase Technology PC1 speakers. I'm listening to it via headphones as I type this on my bench system fed by a Topping D10S DAC. It sounds excellent to my ear!
Hey Gene, love my pioneer SX-780 purchased in 79' with saved paper route money! Very personal to me. Today's technology it doesn't compare. But I still enjoy it's unique sound from its day
Also purchased JBL L112'S in 1983 classic's in their day!
@@johnl1651 very nice. Jbls with that titanium dome sound sweet.
I got into audio in the late 70's. One of my college roommates had one of those huge Sansui receivers with about 160 W/ch. Mine was much more modest. Early 80's I had much more purchasing power and got into separates. Still have some vintage Carver gear. I still use the Carver TX-11a tuner, never found anything that works as well but internet radio does make it kind of obsolete. I've got a Carver M1.5t power amp too. I loved that thing but blew it up so many times it's retired. My speakers from those days were a pair of Electro-Voice Interface C series II's. Those are still functioning and in my living room. Don't play them often but the lovely walnut cabinets make good end tables. I also built a massive 12 cu. ft. subwoofer using the classic JBL 2245H 18" driver. It was based on an article in AUDIO magazine. I've had to replace the driver once as the voice coil started rubbing, they are no longer available. I still use it in my home theater even though it's the size of a refrigerator. I power it with a bridged Carver M400t cube amp. I use a Denon AVR-X4300H receiver which powers everything but the mains which use a not quite vintage John Curl design Parasound HCA 2200 II amp which I'll put up against anything you can buy today for under $1000.
Parasound HCA-2200II Specifications
Continuous Power Output - Stereo
220 watts RMS x 2, 20Hz-20kHz, 8W
385 watts RMS x 2, 20Hz-20kHz, 4W
385 watts RMS x 2, 20Hz-20kHz, 2W
Continuous Power Output - Mono
750 watts RMS, 20Hz-201kHz, 8W
1000 watts RMS, 20Hz-20kHz, 4W
Current Capacity
50 amperes continuous
90 amperes peak
Slew Rate
>135V/msecond
Frequency Response
2Hz-95kHz, +0/-1.5dB
Total Harmonic Distortion
< 0.05% at full power
< 0.009% typical levels
TIM
Unmeasurable
IM Distortion
< 0.03%
Dynamic Headroom
> 1.5dB
lnterchannel Crosstalk
> 84dB at IkHz
> 74dB at 20kHz
lnput lmpedance
100KW/RCA-unbalanced, 200KW/XLR-balanced
S/N Ratio
>114dB, input shorted, IHF A weighted
Damping Factor
> 1000 at 20Hz
Dimensions
19" wide x 7" high x 15" deep
Weight
60 Ibs. net
AC Power Requirements
1000 watts
I'm still running pair of floorstanders from 1996. Monitor Audio PMC 703's that I got sand filled. I love these speakers. Everything else I have replaced continually every few years, separates, amps, but not these.. love them. I will mourn them if and when they no longer function.
In 1989 I bought some Bose 2.2 speakers at Cost Warehouse? and I was sure they were some of the best speakers for the money. Then I bought a Nakamichi TA-1A receiver with 35 or 37 watts per channel. I ended up returning the Bose speakers and exchanging and paying more for an NAD Monitor Series 7000 receiver. I brought the Bose speakers to the store where I bought the Nakamichi receiver and they set up an A B test with a pair of Boston Acoustics A60 Series II speakers which I still have and have had refoamed. NAD remote controls haven’t been the best but I like the equipment, the style, the red number display, and the feel of the switches, buttons, and knobs. What I use now is an NAD T758 AVR (60 x 7 channels), an HSU subwoofer, and a 5 speaker Boston Acoustics M series setup (M 340 towers, M Center, and M 25s for surrounds. I thought I needed more power so I got a Parasound 1205a (120 x 5 channels) amplifier off eBay and have bypassed the NAD’s amplifier. I am happy with it except for the NAD remote’s volume control buttons don’t work well and some of the fluorescent display elements have dimmed. I have fond memories of my older electronics and if I ever get rid of my current setup would happily plug the old NAD and Boston A60’s back in and use them.
BTW Gene - the receiver I picked up is a Lafayette LR-5555 / I believe Luxman was private labeling this 1978 receiver, and in mint condition, re-capped, new LED's, all switches and boards cleaned w/ deoxit - $200.00 / and 55 wpc. I couldn't pass it up.
vintage isn't better, but like you alluded, it satisfies a nostalgia craving. I've got several late 70s Pioneer receivers and an old Yamaha, but I much prefer modern speakers with them. I could sell them all and pour it into a modern setup that is way more accurate and capable, but I would probably miss my vintage stuff greatly.
I got my experience from vintage audio listening to my dad’s Sansui G-9700 200 wpc receiver through a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s. It was beautiful sounding with great sense of clarity that I wasn’t used to hearing from any stereo in your typical circuit city or department store. And like you said Gene, the really high end Pioneer you showed and also this Sansui I think were outliers in a range of equipment that was typically 80 watts with much higher distortion. The Sansui was rated 200 watts per channel at 0.02% THD. Still respectable today. And the Dahlquist speakers were a radical departure from box recessed speakers you showed. They were open air outside of box design in phased array. Adjusted for inflation, I’m sure you could probably do better today for the same amount of money, but pretty impressive for the time.
Wow the G9700 was a monster. We had the Sansui G5700 and a pair of Cerwin Vega H15 HED's that system could blow your snot out of your ass. I just bought a pair of Dahlquist DQ10's for $200 CAN and am re-foaming the woofers and looking for an old Sansui to complete my setup.
@@darrengillesdarrengilles8336 nice! You’ll love the DQ-10s. The only down side is they are power hungry, hence using the big Sansui.
it's the sound on the vintage pioneer reciever that can't be beat. smooth and clear. sound signature of it own.
Good topic Gene.
When growing up we had aPioneer sa330 amp with Pioneer Cs339 speakers. Wow, this was amazing for the time.
Now it more than just the sound with everything you mentioned for the amp and speaker: hdmi, Dts, Dolby, speaker construction, type etc.
"Old" had its day and supplied the need of the times, now we need to embrace and enjoy the present.
Many great points in this video, but there are some other factors worthy of consideration. It is true that technology has improved in many way, and lots of advances have been made in terms of accuracy even at relatively modest costs. Vhile all this is true, I personally find most of the vintage gear to be more enjoyable. From beautiful brushed aluminum faceplatesand wood cabinets, to the blue lights and tuning dial that glides through the stations, there is a beauty that can't be compared to a plain little box with a couple of buttons on it. The tone and loudspeakers controls on vintage equipment do inevitably take away from the accuracy, but many times provide for what I find a more pleasing listening experience, and allows for greater flexibility to taylor the sound of a poorly mixed recording.
Currently My vintage Marantz 2325 is connected to 2 sets od speakers one vintage and the other one modern with the addition of a subwoofer. The $800 Elac Debut Reference DBR62S sound very accurate with great imaging, but I find the vintage Advent Heritage speakers to be more fun to listen to. Maybe the receiver to speaker combo, but when using the Elacs, I find myself turning the treble way up. Many people will find the V Shaped sound signature of the Advent to be more pleasing to the ear.
Lastly there is the issue of planned obsolescence. Chip manufacturers might discontinue or redesign a chip to no longer be compatible with otherwise repairable equipment. Transmission on the other hand have only 3 pins and an equivalent can easily be used as a replacement.
i think what people really miss is the warmer sound and really what they need is an equalizer. they might be used to a muddier sound.
Thanks for your video. Everything you say makes sense. Based of facts and research of actual specs etc...
In saying that, I recently unboxed my (about) 30 year old Yamaha RX-770. I was thinking of selling it as it has been sitting in it's box for many years as I upgraded a couple of times. My most recent unit is an RX-V2079.
I connected the RX-770 up to my 30 year old Richter wizards (which I bought with the RX-770), as they are still my main speakers I'm using connected to my RX-V2079. I put on the John Mayer CD, Room For Squares. The moment I heard it, my jaw dropped. The audio quality and clairty that came from the speakers was unbelieveable. I quickly reconnected the RX-V2079 back up, set it to pure direct, and did a comparison. I thought I was hearing things. The RX-V2079 had none of the crispness, clarity or energy that the RX-770 delivered into the same speakers. My son who isn't really into sound quality, as such, even commented whichout knowing what I'd changed.."Why do the speakers sound so good", he said.
At that, I decided not to sell it, and have since purchased a set of new Richter Merlins. I use this to play music all the time. Still amazes me how good it sounds.
Anyhow, thought I'd share. Does anyone have an opinion on why the old unit sounds so much better? I have my theories, but wouldn't mind hearing others.
I was born in 53 and in the '70s I custom built my speakers, but today I use BOSE & CERWIN VEGA and powered by Pioneer and enjoying my tunes, better sounds on smaller equip.
I feel that sony in the 80’s had really nice buttons and overall user ergonomics. 8 radio presets on big fat silver buttons, and buttery smooth tone controls together make for a very nice user experience, I just walk up to it and have instant response, few modern receivers you can just walk up to and interact with, they’re tucked away on low shelves, instead of sitting prominently on a table. I must say that 80’s sony with would be laughed out of most forums for it’s measly 25watts has much better tone controls than those of my 2010 car which has it’s tone controls inside a menu. Or my pioneer elite receiver who’s tone controls are also in a menu on a gui on a tv screen accessed by a remote. These old receivers with knobs all over them present ergonomic advantages, so I could see why people still covet them for ease of use and lifestyle reasons.
Gene, does new equipment beat the high-end Accuphase and MacIntosh amps in the 1970s and 1980s??? Got less than 0.1 THD on my Accuphase and over 185 Watts into 8 Ohms, bench tested, cleaned, and tuned about every 5-7 years, and have owned since 1983? Forty years of service, never an issue over $100 from age 25, will hit 65 in 8 weeks. Thanks for your work! It's great somebody spreads the enjoyment that can be found outside an iPhone.
Before it was cool to have vintage, you could buy older gear for ~$100 a piece... I.e. onkyo a-10, klipsch heresey, marantz etc... then it made sense on a budget vs new... not that it was better, just way cheaper and decent enough and a cool factor.
Now that vintage prices are up, this is less true.
Same for records... back in like 2000, you could buy a mint Beatles record for 5 bucks... now it’s like way more.
So... I enjoy my vintage stuff purchased cheap yrs ago still and don’t really buy stuff anymore.
Above said, I did build a modern movie room with margin Logan’s , svs subs, and separates and it’s next level... better than my vintage setups for movies. Music wise, the modern setup is better too I expect but not by a ton. And that set up cost probably $5k vs my vintage setups which I cobbled together back in the day for $300.
I guess I’m saying, buying vintage today makes less sense than it used to. It used to be a value play, and current demand for vintage changed the game. Now I kind of agree with you gene though you can still get vintage values if you go after stuff that’s less desirable perhaps.
I agree, retro is cool at the moment so vintage equipment is in demand (anything with VU meters anyway) despite not being able to hold a candle to most modern equipment in the performance department. That said, the one area where I think vintage receivers can maybe score over modern counterparts is with their phono preamps. On most modern receivers/AVRs, the phono preamp (if it has one) is a bit of an after thought and way more $ has been spent on the digital end of things. Prior to the advent of the CD (and digital music in general) turntable (and tape) was the only input so a lot of time and $ was spent ensuring that the phono preamp was of a good quality. I have a late 70's Sony receiver which sounds way better for playing vinyl than any of my more modern receivers and I think it is because the phono preamp is of much better quality than in my newer stuff.
I have some old 1980’s JVC zero 9
3 way, 4 driver loudspeaker system that I just made active with a Frequency Response: 25Hz to 50kHz that I’m running it with 2 JVC AX-Z911 amps with a Frequency response: 1Hz to 200kHz and A Akai AM-73 with a Frequency response: 3Hz to 100kHz and
That both of them have digital optical input for hi-Rez input and I love it
I bought my Cerwin-Vega E-315 pair at Sears in 1997. They were 50% off. I paid $400 for both. I still use them. I put new surround foam on the 15" woofers a few years ago. I was in the Marines so we partied with them at Camp Pendleton and in Okinawa.
I live in Gifu, Japan now. I bought a Yamaha B-2 for $120 junk and fixed it. That amp made a huge difference to my CVs! I'm more than happy with the sound and I didn't spend much money.
Also in Japan, I pieced together a 7.2 speaker set of the early 2000's Yamaha HX series speakers. Yeah. I'm sporting those bad boys. I find great deals on gear that I'm well informed on.
Currently I own a blues venue in Japan. I know exactly what Gene means by embracing modern technology. I have a pair of QSC K12.2s for my PAs, three QSC CP12s for monitors, and a QSC KS118 for sub. My mixer is an analog Midas Venice 240. My venue is number one in the area because of quality sound. And pro musicians, of course.
My investment in modern QSC speakers makes me money. I want to upgrade my home audio too, but as I said, I'm generally pleased with my music listening experience at home, but upgrading isn't my priority as it may be for others. As long as I continue to watch this channel, as I have been for many years, I'm sure my purchases will be done as a well informed audioholic. Thank you always, Gene!
I have a 70s vintage stereo console right beside my modetn hometheater setup. The console consists of Akai receiver, casette player, speakers and a Dual turntable. Its housed in a 70s style wooden cabinet too. I got it from my grandmother and had it restored some years ago. It holds a lot of sentimental and noatalgic qualities for me. I am under no illusion that its an audiophile system or that it can beat modern audio equioment. Its almoat 50 years old and there are mechanical or electrical issues poppping up again even after restoration. Its got the aesthetics and looks nice when pictured. The sound quality isnt that great but it can play loud and party like its 1973.
Considering the high quality build that it has over modern equipment which would play a huge role into the speakers and everything being better, it actually would make for a objectively better audio experience than modern comparisons to today. Too many people get enticed into the lie of "newer is better".
I bought new a Pioneer SX 1050 in 1975, lasted till about 2000, took about 5 years to find equivalent sound, DA3000ES Sony 150 watts x 6 channel, both work well on my Klipsch speakers
If there's any beauty pageant contest then vintage amps are the sure shot winners compared to modern amps.. I just love those vu meters, loudness switch , silver front panel/ solid knobs and the faint backlight glow of incandescent bulbs
I used a Sansui G-4700 and BIC Formula 6 speakers for years. Still have the Sansui, and should find a tech to check it out. I tend toward nostalgia, but wouldn't consider arguing they're better than something else.
I collected records starting in '97. Mostly punk and classic rock and had a crappy sony 2 channel and automatic record player. I kept buying records over the years, but my gear died and I took lots of years off. Until Covid. I bought a AT-LP140 (New) and then bought a Pioneer SA-5200 and a pair of Infinity Qa's. Not because I think Vintage is better or anything, but because I got the amp and speakers for $200. Since then, I bought some 1978 Klipsch Heresys because they were a good deal and I've always wanted a pair, but I know there are countless new amps or speakers that would blow mine away. Definitely not for what I paid for mine, but I'll eventually move on from this amp and sell it to another budding audiophile. Great video Gene. Cool topic. I'm new to your channel and look forward to more content!
Would you be able to repair something made today in 20 years? Will the chips still be available?
Both..sometimes? Mostly nostalgia.
I went from a Parasound HCA-2200 to a Classé CA-150/CAP-151 combo to a BAT VK-500 to a Sansui AU-D11ll & the music seem to come back to life? Albeit with a higher noise floor & less wpc.
Own two pairs of KEF 104.4 Ref Series (rosewood veneer, bi-wire near end of production 1996) - they are VERY power thirsty and benefit greatly from expensive cables but GREAT sound stage with warm base. One set is paired with Parasound integrated amp (for tweeters) and Parasound JC1 mono blocks for woofers. Easily my favorite speaker. Have auditioned newer $2k+ speakers but none have the quality of the KEF's..
Vintage sound has a place. Some folks want to hear it the way they remember and are not what we would call "Critical" listeners. New stuff has all the advantages that Gene speaks of.
For me I use a Mix of modern and vintage components. Modern streamers, Dacs & subs with vintage amps and speakers. I got into the game with modern Elacs then we compared them to some vintage JBLs and Sonys. We sided with vintage at the time. I went was convinced to buy some Dahlquist DQ-10s which I believe is still the best speakers I have used to date. I bought a pair of KEF LS-50s and did not find that they were for me so I traded those for some Acoustic Research AR-11s.
Great 👍 video I have a question I just bought a Sony DVP-S9000ES DVD/SACD player What are your thoughts on that as a CD transport I will really appreciate your help thanks Gene
There is some older studio and pro gear that never got the "vintage" love that can provide some incredible value for dollar if you are ok with big and ugly. For instance EV Sentry 100 and 500 monitors can be picked up under $300 all day and cost thousands per side in the 80s. They have sensible layouts, proper drivers, and sound the business.
I do think the vintage prices have gotten crazy. I got in just before everything went crazy in price. I wont sell the ones i have even if they are now worth more. The 3 i still have are so fun. I like to swap out gear and speakers, and the vintage stuff is great as long as it doesn’t need maintenance. (Which it all does in 2022). A new piece of gear with a warranty may be a more practical way for new audioholics to go. Vintage stuff can really require some patience if maintenance and restoration is required. But i hold onto my old stuff because they are built like military grade equipment from the era. Is it bulletproof? No. But horsepower and simplicity. And yes nostalgia. Cheers
My uncle bought a technics system in Japan on his way home from Vietnam. He was the only one in the family with components and the more he drank the louder it got.
I lust after that system and yet in my heart I know it would be disappointing compared to what I have today
Gene: what would you say is a good year cut-off for speakers vs. similar cost modern speakers? Say if I’m looking at Paradigm Studio 60 V.2 towers for $500? How would these compare to comparably priced modern speakers?
I have the 40 v2s and they're my best pair by far
I havent heard many modern speakers less than $1500 that have sounded better than vintage ADS & Cantons
My vintage system consists of 80's and 90's gear. Luxman C-02 pre, a pair of M-02 amps all rebuilt/modernized, Denon DVD2900 modded by Exemplar, Micro Seiki DQX1000 turntable with 3 Graham tonearms and VMPS FF3 speakers. Even my speaker cables are monster m2.2s. Having been to Axpona and auditioned modern speakers but only a few pair really wowed me the way my FF3'S do. One pair I really enjoyed was $18000/pr I would have considered an upgrade which are not far off from the VMPS adjusting for inflation as they were $7200 in 1992. I agree some of the gear out there from the 70's is way over priced for what you get. I am quite pleased with the system I have put together and would have to spend some serious cash to beat it from what I've heard.
Gene I'm old school. There are somethings like, my new B&W tower's and the rest of 5.2 B&W set up that I totally enjoy. I have, on your recommendation, a Denon Avr-X3300W that I use as a preamplifier. Here is the main part I love. A Carver AV-405. Yup. Like people that love their music and movies this Amplifier will not blow your mind with stats. 100 RMS L R 110 for the center and 50RMS for the rears. The rears have a booster component if necessary. The weight is 40 lbs. Its not Carvers MFT. Gene it is magnificent. Rated at the time as the best 5 cannel ever! Delicious and delightful with thumping hard base all tied together with clean separation. I could go on and on but I already have. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post.
I love vintage Klipsch speakers (70s ish) for stereo music. I like vintage stereo receivers from the 70s like Pioneer, Marantz, etc. I had one of those SX-1980 receivers, but I ended up selling it. The problem for me with vintage receivers, amps, etc is that they are going to needs frequent maintenance.
Had a set of VOICE OF THE THEATER ALTECS at one time and could watch the metal garbage cans dance across the patio and the ports would blow out lit candles.
I think the mid. 80's into the early 90's was some of the best made and sounding low to mid. level high end 2 channel audio equipment that was affordable! for me to upgrade my 26-year-old 2 channel system, to something better sounding (along with a HDMI ARC hookup for my newer Samsung Smart TV) i am gonna be spending so much more money now, and who knows if i will even like the sound compared to what i already have... only way i can use my newer TV with my old 2 -channel separates is to have a cheap HDMI ARC DAC/extractor (from Amazon) between the TV and my preamplifier... so for now i am just playing the waiting game for the next 5 years or so to see what is safe for me to upgrade to... and i have been in the electronics repair field since 1989, both consumer (VCR, Audio and TV) until 2006 and now Industrial electronics since then! i know a little about cheaper parts used, and lousy lead-free solder connections...
Absolutely, no doubt in my experience. First, they were made to last, with top quality electronics & parts. None of this built in obsolescence clap trap.
I enjoyed a Philips Receiver with a Technics cassette deck & Studio Monitor 5 speakers made by Australian Wireless Association. A superb combination! We talking mid 1980's through to early 1990's.
My favorite decade is now. You just can't beat now. A 7.2.4 Atmos system with Bowers 702s2 and a pair of Bowers 610's, you couldn't buy it back in the day, and I sure couldn't afford it back in the day. My "senior " retirement system is around 32 grand, so you can't go home again, but would you want to?
I have some newer gear. But, I do have a pair of Polk Audio Monitor 10B's that I cannot find a better sounding speaker for my particular ear. It just might be that I'm so used to them. They're part of my 5.1.2 Atmos setup in my theater. An audio/video consultant came to my home to check out my setup to see if there were things he could suggest that would improve my theater. I cranked them up, and he stated that he wondered what he could actually do to improve the sound. He did recommend that I could "improve" the setup by replacing my later model Onkyo AVR receiver with a $3000 Marantz model. He said that, if I ever wanted to sell the Polks, that he would make me an offer on them. Those things are over 40 years old! So.... there's my story!
I had a Hitachi SR 904 with Dynaharmony class G. I loved that monster. You can find one for about $800 Cad. It would blow out the windows. Well, not really, but it was a rock concert in a box. I ran it with a big pair of 15" Audiosphere Research speakers.
Hi Gene ! I have a pair of Mission 774 ' s , and there over 25 years old and I still love them ! I wonder if you have ever heard the 774's ? By the way I got a set of JBL studio 570's "amazing" for my sister last Christmas , and a Denon receiver !
I think the 80s were the best era mainly because that is when I got into good audio equipment. I like the look over the 70s look.
My first receiver was a Luxman R-115 receiver rated very conservatively at 70 Watts. I love this receiver and I love its sound. I use it in my audio room and mostly listen to it for music. I also have a Marantz SR6014 in my audio room that I also listen to. The Marantz sounds good as well (after Audyssey was run) but I just like the Luxman more. I purchased a matching cassette deck (K-111) and CD Player (D-111) which I mostly use with the Luxman for nostalgia and completism (the CD Player I think sounds great as well though maybe not as good as my modern SACD).
The thing I like about vintage stuff is that you pug it in and off you go.
As for new stuff… you get more options and performance for the price over the old stuff. The current technology is amazing, but I am a simple 2-channel guy and a 5.1 guy in the home theater.
Well, Gene, I am deep into Vintage gear. My Leaks Sandwich are my favourites. And a few CD players I use are around 20 years old now.
I think that this argument really come from a time when vintage gear was cheaper. You could grab an old receiver for well under $100 dollars and it would sound wonderful. It would destroy any cheap modern AVR for tone and richness.. Now though, like the vintage car market, prices are nuts and its only for nostalgia. I do have some old gear. I really love 80"s Japanese hifi. I have an old TEAC V900X tape deck (I know) and an imported Yamaha GT-750 turntable. They are amazing and well better than anything at a similar price from today. That said, vintage turntable prices have skyrocketed so now it would be better to get a new from Rega, Pro-Ject, etc. Those are amazing pieces and now the prices are fairly even. I would also note that my vintage gear goes through a modern Yamaha RX A1080 and into Dynaudio speakers.
Speaking of nostalgia, I recently bought a reasonably high end turntable having only owned a junky one when I was kid. Something about the way it sounds that is satisfying.
In most of the comments I read here it seems most are expressing a specific sound quality or a taste in the look of vintage equipment.
For me it has always been sound reproduction. How resolving is it? How clear and precise? The imaging, sound stage and that 3d feel.
I can honestly say that in my audio journey there is no comparison from the past to what I get now.
That is without any measurements per say.
Just my own ears.
No contest!
My setup was a Carver C-1 preamp paired with (2) Carver M400 cubes configured as mono blocks driving a pair of Cerwin-Vega S1 loudspeakers. I've not found another speaker of comparable size and price (adjusted for inflation) that can match the performance of the S1s.
I am a 90s kid. So im not old and im not young. But even I can tell you a modern Hegal H100 looks like plasticy garbage compared a Sansui G-9000 etc. There is no question which one I would rather have. Amplifiers do not need to be complicated either. Simpler circuitry is a good thing.
We’ll said,
Personal taste is exactly what it is, it is based on emotion and pride. Nothing wrong, but is it reality? Technology moves on and advances. Thanks for the A/B comparisons.
My speakers are modern. My vintage stuff is late 70s. Favorite unit is actually an 85 wpc Sony. To me, it sounds better than the Marantz or Sansui i have. I agree with the Old Mustang analogy. But i do own an old mustang and a newer subaru. Overall performance is better w modern subaru. But fun factor and pure enjoyment? Mustang all the way.
I own the Pioneer HPM 150. 100, 1100, 900, 500, 300 and a set of Pioneer S955 speakers. I have had my speakers up against many new speakers, Elac, Q acoustics, JBL, Yamaha, the list goes on and so do my HPMs, many years later, I'll have them any day. I also own a Pioneer M90 power amp, a A 757, integrated and also owned a SA9800 and again I love the sound they produce but I also own modern receivers as well. There is room for both in my opinion but speakers, I'm sticking with my Pioneer's.
I agree with you 100% Gene. Don’t get me wrong, I have pretty old speakers (B&W Matrix 803S2), i think they are from mid 90s. I love the sound, but I can attest to the fact that you get far better sound quality these days. I also have the smaller Matrix 805, and even 10 years ago you got better sound quality from a B&W 605. I A-B tested this while working in a Hi-Fi store that sold B&W among other brands. I really think that amplifiers also have huge leaps, especially if you count in the new class D amps. As long as you can stay clear if all the crappy lifestyle-google-soundbar products, you can obtain great sound quality today for a reasonable price.
I have a pair of JBL 4430’s. Stock, they failed to meet my expectations. Turns out they have Mylar capacitors, iron core inductors and the internal/external crossover switch limited current flow. Plus the existing woofer cone was way too heavy to produce good midrange. I put in modern woofer cone replacements which are lighter, and bypassed the existing crossover and constructed a new charge coupled crossover with air core indicators, poly caps and low inductance resistors and 12 gauge wire. When coupled with Direc Live room correction software, these speakers image like no tomorrow. The sound they produce is very impressive and they sound good at low volumes and really high volumes.
I started a restore on my Dad's old Marantz. I gave up, as my soldering skills are poor, and it's hard to do a project like that while grieving.
For me, it's the way vintage gear looks. Real wood veneers, nice milled metal knobs, actual glass, vintage look analog tuner. They also sound good in their own 60's/70's transistor way. I doubt any of the vintage gear will measure even close to new gear. It's like I'll notice no modern BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc on the road. They are all over the place like boring appliances. But a vintage BMW CSL, Mercedes 190 SL or Porsche 356, e32 M3? Now I'll honk and give thumbs up to their owners all the time.
This is a old video but I am a big fan of the original DCM series speakers and I own 4 TF350S , 5 CX 17 and 4 DCM Time Pieces that I am using for my Atmos speakers and I love the sound of them and they are very easy to drive and the 350s will go down to about 28hz but I cross them all at 80hz . I also have the TB 1212 subwoofer active of course and 3 DCM 07 along with 4 DCM 007 that I use for my 3rd setup. I have modem speakers for my 2nd system and I am very pleased with all my systems but I personally prefer the DCM TF350S more because of its performance and great imaging , I’m sure that they’re is a much better sounding speaker out there but I am still very impressed by how well Steve designed the speakers and they are very good quality for the future. I have wanted a pair but unable to afford them and I heard the 901s and I felt they were the best until I heard them in a A B compartment and I was so disappointed in the 901 and I had to regroup because I was crushed. So I know that the speakers of the day are better at some point but if you can make low cost drivers sound like a high end speakers then you are very good at what you do.
I remember growing up my brother Fernando had sansui receiver which I can’t remember what model it was but I do remember his Polk SDA 1RC speakers he had he would thump those speakers so hard. I do agree with nowadays you can’t compare apples and oranges because it’s to different fruits just like the older receiver and nowadays av receivers. This video brought back memories because my brother Fernando is the resend I am into audio not audiophile but glad I can enjoy a good set of speakers and av receiver.
Yamaha NS-1000 M
Celestion Ditton 66
I enjoy vintage gear mainly for the nostalgia associated with using it. Saying that, I really enjoyed the sound of the two speaker sets mentioned above, although I doubt these will stand a chance against modern and well designed loudspeakers in a double blind ab test.
Interesting subject and another great video 👍
I really enjoyed that happy medium between tubes and GaNFET class D amps. I like tubes but, prefer vintage Class AB solid-state gear from the 1970s to early 1990s. Also, there are some modern speakers pair really well with vintage amps. My Pioneer A-9 amp from 1981 tend to prefer dual 6-1/2 inch floor-standing speakers. GaNFET class D amplifiers don't add or remove anything to the sound from the source but, it's so accurate that I am not really a fan, and some of the ridiculously expensive class AB monoblock amps are just like that too.
I won't argue about vintage speakers, to me the advances make me undoubtedly prefer modern designs. However, with 2 channel vintage amps/receivers vs. modern 2 channel amps/receivers the differences are not nearly as dramatic as you suggest. The SX-1980 (Appears to be an asking price, not a sold price anyway) and all the very top-end models command prices significantly higher than a model just one or two steps down. These are at the extreme, so to suggest that these are the prices you need to pay for say a vintage 100w/ch model is disingenuous. Modern features are not what interests most seeking a vintage unit so I don't see that as a setback. As far as the distortion figures go, modern has the edge there, as well as being more efficient, but I would contend by the mid to late 70's noise figures had gotten low enough that you'd be hard pressed to actually HEAR any differences in distortion even if it is measurable. The Golden ears are gonna argue, but they claim to hear power cord changes too.
The main advantages of tube or solid state vintage units which you fail to point out is that they can be maintained, serviced and diagnosed by a garage type tech, allowing for continued operation for generations to come. Consumer brand units of today are disposable and they'll never be made to the high build standards of yesteryear. Fully milled, thick aluminum face plates, solid billet aluminum knobs, rugged fully braced steel chassis designs, veneer or even solid wood cases. Also most 70s solid state is class A/B design, and that tends to be the same topology used of higher end amps today, even with all the advancement. The market is what it is for a reason. I invested in vintage because I was tired of the constant electronics churn and trying to keep up with the latest surround format/feature and running out patience with positioning and making room for 6 plus friggin speakers. Back to the basics for me, 2 channel was the answer. Now I'm in possession of units I can repair myself until I'm dead and buried.
Hi I am coming from the ignorance is bliss dept. Last week I bought the Dahlquist DQ 10's for $ 200 CAN. and will rebuild the Woofers with a $30 Kit. I am interested to know what your thoughts are on the DQ 10's as they were a pretty progressive design for their day and I wonder if adding a passive rad is worth the effort I have enough room to add a 12" passive.
I'm a long-time musician keyboardist and we fall into these traps big time. I had a Roland Juno 106 (1984) which now sells for a stupid amount of money, let alone some others like the Jupiter 8 or Korg Polysix which can set you back 10, 12, 15K. What nostalgic people forget is some of the older types of keyboards did NOT sound very good out of the box and suffered terribly from oscillator drift causing it to go out of tune. In fact, there are several vintage keyboards that take more than an hour to warm up before you can use them in tune. The truth is, with VST instruments and my Roland FA06 modern synth I can faithfully recreate most all of the vintage sounds quite accurately. But.... A Roland Jupiter 8 would sure look nice in my studio! OK, I'm over that.
I'm not sure how vintage gear would improve with time. Every upgrade I've made has been not just different, but an improvement. I still remember the fatigue and distortion from some of my old gear. Yeah, the fit and finish was gorgeous. But even though the switches and knobs looked and felt great, there was a huge failure rate. My Pioneer receivers sounded awful truth be told. My old top-tier Yamaha gear paled in comparison to the Adcom gear I replaced it with. Yes, there's a few pieces that have become classics for a reason - but that's usually not what people are looking for. The advent of new materials and computer aided design has changed the audio world drastically. Maybe I'm too old to feel nostalgic - the _only_ thing I'd like to do is to bring my dad's old mid-century modern stereo cabinet back. It had a Fisher 500C, Gerrard turntable (with the "pencil sharpener") and JBL drivers behind the basket-weave panels. No doubt the old Nancy Ames LP would sound better on this. I can still remember the sound of my Infinity's with the EMIT tweeter, JBL L100's , my friend's Pioneer HPM-100's. They got loud. All of them. Best quality. Loud.
I have two pairs of good vintage Monoblock amplifiers, and they are defiantly very good for the money I paid for them. Vintage amplifiers are not worth the inflated prices people pay for them at times. An SX1980 is not worth $5000+ they cost, neither is a pair of Marantz Model 9 amps that can cost upwards of $20,000. But something like a pair of Kenwood L-09m or Harman Kardon Citation XX? Defiantly worth it as they don't seem to sell for anywhere near their quality compared to the "collectable" ones. I think once a piece of vintage gear becomes "collectable" it becomes more a piece of ephemera then an actual piece of audio equipment (a good example being the SX-1980 or even the G-33000). As far as speakers, speakers have come a long way from what they were back in the day, heck, my TZ-7s were great but to be honest, those little KLH Cambridge speakers almost match their sound quality and they are far cheaper speakers then those TZ-7s were back in the day.
For Example: 1968 RCA VLT-72W Console. Using an outboard Technics 100WPC Receiver, hooked to the console speakers ... ROCKS! Great for TV & Movies too (we have the TV on top of the console). I have listened to this since 1968 when I was two. :) Have a more modern system upstairs. :)
I have vandersteen model 2 and I love its sound. Anything you want to add for the claim for time align driver?
I agree with you Gene …… Todays equipment is much better than the pass was and I had lots of equipment throughout the 70-80-90 and nothing comes close to sound reproduction
The muscle car analogy works perfectly Gene. With advances in technology, horsepower is now cheap. It's nostalgia and the cool factor for sure.
90's Gear is un unbeatable. The only problem is they no longer press hardened wax discs for my Gramophone, and they spin in the wrong direction....nothing a good analog-to-analog hack can't fix I suppose...
Writing this before watching. In my opinion, vintage gear being better is relative. I think overall vintage gear was built at a much higher level overall back then, vs now where most of the gear is built as cheap as possible and focus is on a bunch of features. So looking at say a 100wpc vintage receiver, it will stomp the majority of the receivers rated similarly these days since most of the modern ones are rated differently. Most vintage stuff was rated 20hz-20khz rms. The amplifiers tended to support lower impedence as well. To get anything that holds up to the raw power of a lot of the decent vintage stuff, you have to start looking at pretty high end stuff or pa stuff.
In high school, I inherited by dad's AR-3a's powered by two mono-blocked Dynakit-70s and a Dynaco PAT-5 preamp. At the time, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. However, by today's standards it would have so many downsides. The tube amps, compared to today's tech, were noisy. The AR-3s needed gobs of power thanks to being acoustic suspension speakers. They had 12" woofers capable of some amazing bass, but even with 70W/channel, you'd need 3X the power to really get them thumping. I get the nostalgia, but I'll trade great sound for nostalgia any day. BTW - I sold my pair of Dynakit 70 tube amps after restoring them for $1200/each.