Hello Keith, a great big thank you for all the information you put up on YT. I don't know, how it is these days with Hahnemühle, but many years back when I purchased my first photo printer (Canon i9950), I inquired with them about ICC profiles missing for this particular model. Their response was that unfortunately they cannot justify the cost to purchase every printer model, but if I was willing to print the test charts for them, they would send me the different papers, along with detailed instructions, how to print the charts-and a couple of weeks later new profiles for the i9950 were on their website and I received a big box of Hahnemühle PhotoRag A3+ paper as a little thank you. Again, thank you ever so much for all the work you put into providing such a plethora of information and insights.
Glad to help... Their approach really came down to 'is this printer good enough for us' They want to promote a 'premium product' so their marketing approach is set accordingly. I make no judgement on how good an idea this is... Not sure if they would get someone to do the target printing for them these days?
Keith thank you for all the tips on finding suitable substitutes for ICC profiles that are not published or very difficult to find. I have an Epson P700 and a box of Epson paper that only puts out acceptable colors if I let the printer do the color management, which is very different from printing on Red River papers with their profiles. Now I have a starting point to try and remedy this problem. Red River is only about 45 minutes drive from my house, so I will likely continue to use them. Thanks again and have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Great tips thanks Keith. I'm looking at A2 printers from my Epson A3 (P600) printer. One of the advantages of Epson is their wide range of 'in house' paper (especially roll paper) which I have found work very well with the supplied, canned profiles. Going to Canon is going to require a bit more work, especially here in New Zealand with somewhat limited paper choices.
@@KeithCooper Yep. I'd probably already own an Epson P5000 model (because of the roll paper handling) - if it was more 'portable'. 50+ kg - I need to be a bit more organised!
Very formative video as always, I got Epson Pro3880 for my b&w prints, and i am using Epson signature paper (Hot Press Bright), since the profile is available , I tried Hahnemühle paper but I could not find a proper profile to get a good print with it, so I kept using the Epson paper and stopped trying to find others paper, with these kind of printers it is very expensive to keep trying.
Q: DO I NEED AN ICC? I bought an ET-8550 to replace my Epson XP-440 for several reasons. I was surprised that the output on the Epson matte paper is not as good on the ET-8550. I have searched for an ICC profile, I've also printed on the 8550 with both the matte setting and the Velvet Fine Art setting, neither gave as good color as the XP-440. set to matte. I've watched now about 2+ hours of your excellent (and awesome) videos and wanted to ask you how to match the output of the XP-440, again, it's the same, Epson Matte paper, thanks. I use Mac, and for image editing, I use Pixelmator (cheap substitute for Photoshop/lightroom, but perfect for my needs) and Photomatix.
Quick update since i decided to buy an ET8550. In their downloadsection I found ICC-Profiles for nearly every Paper they produce for the ET8550. MAybe they had a change of heart. Even for their newer models made of modern sustainable materials.
I had an outside service make custom profiles for three of the same Epson papers supported by my 8550 printer, and the custom ones were an improvement.
Yes - this is why I provide quite a few profiles after I've finished a printer review. The quality of manufacturer profiles is better these days but it can be possible to make better looking ones.
@@KeithCooper I recently purchased the ET 8550, with three different Epson papers and two different Canson papers (Baryta semi gloss and Baryta Matte) and had custom profile made for each. What is you suggesting for achieving best results for B&W with these papers and my printer?
Well, normally baryta is probably the generally weakest paper type with the 8550 - but for B&W see the B&W specific parts of my written 8550 review [the videos are generally supplements to the written material] www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/ B&W does need some care with this printer, but it can give good results on some media.
@@KeithCooperI wasn’t aware those Canson paper were not great with the 8550. Can you suggest similar Hahnemuhle’s papers to those Canson ones since my recollection is that you like that brand?
It's not Canson vs HM as such - it's the type of paper. See the discussion about this in the [written] review The 8550 is great, but needs care in selection of papers - it's paper type which matters. When I say Baryta is 'weak' it is relative. See the papers I tested in the review.
Thanks for this down to earth presentation. I know you have a sophisticated and expensive system for generating your own profiles. How do the results from your system differ from a more consumer oriented calibrator like the Datacolor Spyder Print? The price is reasonable enough for the enthusiast to purchase.
The quality of the profiles sometimes seem to vary with how different the paper is from the OEM type specified by the media setting. I've noticed that papers with lots of OBA can also have problems. The ccStudio is a better device than the Spyderprint, although I find the Spyder software more user friendly.
Keith, thanks for your commitment to our community. I'm a photographer for 40+ years now and just recently started printing. Based on your review I bought an Epson 8550 and couldn't be happier. I've taken on framing my own prints and making spiral bound calenders and am thoroughly enjoying myself. For the future Id like to make my own photo book but am struggling to find the right paper. I want up to 100 pages double-sided so it needs to be fairly thin. Also durable enough to let my 2 fans (lol) page through it. I tried some off brand paper from Amazon and it is not good. Not only color shift but problems absorbing the ink. Any suggestions that might be available in the US? Once again thanks for what you do!
Yes, but not for many years. The general feeling at the time was that profile editing was not a good way to go. As printers have got more linear and predictable, the amount of 'work' a profile needs to do has diminished. Profile editing was lost in the move from i1Match and ProfileMaker to i1Profiler. This was the sort of thing discussed in the forums at Luminous Landscape, but as they have faded away, I've seen little recent discussion about it, other than in commercial print applications where there is still a need for this on occasions.
Thanks... Loads of them, but I don't sell paper ;-) Try asking a specialist paper supplier Such as PermaJet, Fotospeed, Paper Spectrum [in the UK - can't help elsewhere other than Red River in the US]
I keep see ing videos on printing and the profile I see is P3. Why do people use this ? Isn’t P3 a monitor profile? This whole profile Management is confusing for different stages of original raw through to print. I have memory problems and am exasperated.. I appreciate your feedback and help.
P3 is a colour space - yes it's used with monitors, but it's also used as a colour space for editing sometimes. It's not a profile used for printing. It's use is often associated with mobile devices, which are fine until you want any degree of predictability or quality in printing This is a good guide to colour management Ignore the fact that it is specifically for a version of Photoshop - it is a very good overview of the subject www.photoshopforphotographers.com/pscs3/download/PSCS3_colmanage.pdf
Innova is one producer I'd look at - some suppliers don't advertise products in many markets, they mainly sell paper to other companies such as Felix Schoeller Also UK suppliers PermaJet, Fotospeed, Paper Spectrum, Marutt - useful even if you are not in the UK since they publish specs In the US, Red River Paper is the only one I have experience of.
Hi Kieth, I rarely print on high gloss papers, but I have an old, but fully functional epson xp-8500 a4 printer and have wondered whether the paper profiles for the epson et-18100 printer would work with my little a4 printer. I'm guessing there's a firmware/print head incompatibility issue. I would love to try it, but at the same time, I'm too scared to have a go.
They won't cause any harm, but won't give good results. They are two different printers in terms of inks and how they print. Profiles are to get the best from a printer/paper/ink combination. Change the paper a bit - you might get an OK print. Change the printer and unless the new one is just a different size version it's likely to be useless. What's similar? Epson P700 and P900 or ET8550 and ET8500 - profiles interchangeable The et18100 is like nothing else in this respect...
Cheers, Keith, it was only the fact they both have the same six inks that made me curious. It may be an excuse for Santa to drop off an 18100 to complement my 900.
Hello Mr. Cooper, I am having trouble with a paper type. Although I have the ICC for Hahnemühle's Bright White Photo Rag a quite strange thing happens? When printing black it starts of well but the tone turns to dark grey after about 10cm? I have cleaned the printer heads and tried other papers and black works fine. If I use the Bright White Photo Rag again the same thing happens, what do you think is happening here? ( ink levels are not the problem )
@@KeithCooper Mmmm that's an interesting question? All I know is if I then print the same file that is predominately black (but a colour image) on another paper there is no problem whatsoever.
i have a recuring issue when printing. its that theres a colour tinge on the prints thats not there when i edit it. i have that correct icc profile, good FS paper and i have calibrated my monitor. after trawling the internet for clues the only thing that might explain it is the conversion from RGB to CMYK on this subject if its true i am clueless. could this be the issue?
For normal printing you should never need to convert to CMYK - Unless you are working in commercial print and design, there is virtually never any good reason to use CMYK at all
i dont convert thats just what i read on forums. i was just trying to figure out why i had this odd colour tinge. the print looks like i'm viewing it through slightly coloured glass so to speak @@KeithCooper
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Hello Keith, a great big thank you for all the information you put up on YT.
I don't know, how it is these days with Hahnemühle, but many years back when I purchased my first photo printer (Canon i9950), I inquired with them about ICC profiles missing for this particular model. Their response was that unfortunately they cannot justify the cost to purchase every printer model, but if I was willing to print the test charts for them, they would send me the different papers, along with detailed instructions, how to print the charts-and a couple of weeks later new profiles for the i9950 were on their website and I received a big box of Hahnemühle PhotoRag A3+ paper as a little thank you.
Again, thank you ever so much for all the work you put into providing such a plethora of information and insights.
Glad to help...
Their approach really came down to 'is this printer good enough for us'
They want to promote a 'premium product' so their marketing approach is set accordingly.
I make no judgement on how good an idea this is...
Not sure if they would get someone to do the target printing for them these days?
Keith thank you for all the tips on finding suitable substitutes for ICC profiles that are not published or very difficult to find. I have an Epson P700 and a box of Epson paper that only puts out acceptable colors if I let the printer do the color management, which is very different from printing on Red River papers with their profiles. Now I have a starting point to try and remedy this problem. Red River is only about 45 minutes drive from my house, so I will likely continue to use them. Thanks again and have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Thanks! - glad it's been of some help!
Great tips thanks Keith.
I'm looking at A2 printers from my Epson A3 (P600) printer. One of the advantages of Epson is their wide range of 'in house' paper (especially roll paper) which I have found work very well with the supplied, canned profiles. Going to Canon is going to require a bit more work, especially here in New Zealand with somewhat limited paper choices.
Yes - I've just found that the new P5300 [aka P5370] is turning up later this week to test... Christmas arrives early ;-)
@@KeithCooper Yep. I'd probably already own an Epson P5000 model (because of the roll paper handling) - if it was more 'portable'. 50+ kg - I need to be a bit more organised!
Very formative video as always, I got Epson Pro3880 for my b&w prints, and i am using Epson signature paper (Hot Press Bright), since the profile is available , I tried Hahnemühle paper but I could not find a proper profile to get a good print with it, so I kept using the Epson paper and stopped trying to find others paper, with these kind of printers it is very expensive to keep trying.
Thanks - I've quite a few of these papers to rest with the P5300 I've just had arrive for testing
Q: DO I NEED AN ICC? I bought an ET-8550 to replace my Epson XP-440 for several reasons. I was surprised that the output on the Epson matte paper is not as good on the ET-8550. I have searched for an ICC profile, I've also printed on the 8550 with both the matte setting and the Velvet Fine Art setting, neither gave as good color as the XP-440. set to matte. I've watched now about 2+ hours of your excellent (and awesome) videos and wanted to ask you how to match the output of the XP-440, again, it's the same, Epson Matte paper, thanks. I use Mac, and for image editing, I use Pixelmator (cheap substitute for Photoshop/lightroom, but perfect for my needs) and Photomatix.
Print from EPL and read my main review...
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/
Quick update since i decided to buy an ET8550. In their downloadsection I found ICC-Profiles for nearly every Paper they produce for the ET8550. MAybe they had a change of heart. Even for their newer models made of modern sustainable materials.
Thanks - that's good to know
Nice 1 Kieth
Thanks
I had an outside service make custom profiles for three of the same Epson papers supported by my 8550 printer, and the custom ones were an improvement.
Yes - this is why I provide quite a few profiles after I've finished a printer review.
The quality of manufacturer profiles is better these days but it can be possible to make better looking ones.
@@KeithCooper I recently purchased the ET 8550, with three different Epson papers and two different Canson papers (Baryta semi gloss and Baryta Matte) and had custom profile made for each. What is you suggesting for achieving best results for B&W with these papers and my printer?
Well, normally baryta is probably the generally weakest paper type with the 8550 - but for B&W see the B&W specific parts of my written 8550 review [the videos are generally supplements to the written material]
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/
B&W does need some care with this printer, but it can give good results on some media.
@@KeithCooperI wasn’t aware those Canson paper were not great with the 8550. Can you suggest similar Hahnemuhle’s papers to those Canson ones since my recollection is that you like that brand?
It's not Canson vs HM as such - it's the type of paper. See the discussion about this in the [written] review
The 8550 is great, but needs care in selection of papers - it's paper type which matters.
When I say Baryta is 'weak' it is relative. See the papers I tested in the review.
Thanks for this down to earth presentation. I know you have a sophisticated and expensive system for generating your own profiles. How do the results from your system differ from a more consumer oriented calibrator like the Datacolor Spyder Print? The price is reasonable enough for the enthusiast to purchase.
The quality of the profiles sometimes seem to vary with how different the paper is from the OEM type specified by the media setting. I've noticed that papers with lots of OBA can also have problems.
The ccStudio is a better device than the Spyderprint, although I find the Spyder software more user friendly.
Keith, thanks for your commitment to our community. I'm a photographer for 40+ years now and just recently started printing. Based on your review I bought an Epson 8550 and couldn't be happier. I've taken on framing my own prints and making spiral bound calenders and am thoroughly enjoying myself. For the future Id like to make my own photo book but am struggling to find the right paper. I want up to 100 pages double-sided so it needs to be fairly thin. Also durable enough to let my 2 fans (lol) page through it. I tried some off brand paper from Amazon and it is not good. Not only color shift but problems absorbing the ink. Any suggestions that might be available in the US? Once again thanks for what you do!
Glad it's helped.
My suggestion in the the US is to give Red River Paper a call and see what they have which will fit your needs
@Redrivercatalog
Much appreciated, Keith. Are you by any chance aware of the existence of an editor for ICC profile files? And if yes, where, how to get it?
Yes, but not for many years.
The general feeling at the time was that profile editing was not a good way to go. As printers have got more linear and predictable, the amount of 'work' a profile needs to do has diminished. Profile editing was lost in the move from i1Match and ProfileMaker to i1Profiler.
This was the sort of thing discussed in the forums at Luminous Landscape, but as they have faded away, I've seen little recent discussion about it, other than in commercial print applications where there is still a need for this on occasions.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. 🙌🌟💫. Do you know of any thin (light weight) smooth paper that I can print a pattern? Thank you.
Thanks... Loads of them, but I don't sell paper ;-)
Try asking a specialist paper supplier
Such as PermaJet, Fotospeed, Paper Spectrum [in the UK - can't help elsewhere other than Red River in the US]
@@KeithCooper thank you. I’m in the U.S. and will stop by a local place. Have a great day
I keep see ing videos on printing and the profile I see is P3. Why do people use this ? Isn’t P3 a monitor profile? This whole profile Management is confusing for different stages of original raw through to print. I have memory problems and am exasperated.. I appreciate your feedback and help.
P3 is a colour space - yes it's used with monitors, but it's also used as a colour space for editing sometimes. It's not a profile used for printing. It's use is often associated with mobile devices, which are fine until you want any degree of predictability or quality in printing
This is a good guide to colour management
Ignore the fact that it is specifically for a version of Photoshop - it is a very good overview of the subject
www.photoshopforphotographers.com/pscs3/download/PSCS3_colmanage.pdf
@@KeithCooper I am grateful for your help and support. Thanks I will read it.
@@KeithCooper I am grateful for your help and support. Thanks I will read it.
Keith, please can you give us links to the main paper manufacturers? I don't know who they are. Thanks
Innova is one producer I'd look at - some suppliers don't advertise products in many markets, they mainly sell paper to other companies such as Felix Schoeller
Also UK suppliers PermaJet, Fotospeed, Paper Spectrum, Marutt - useful even if you are not in the UK since they publish specs
In the US, Red River Paper is the only one I have experience of.
Thanks @@KeithCooper
Hi Kieth, I rarely print on high gloss papers, but I have an old, but fully functional epson xp-8500 a4 printer and have wondered whether the paper profiles for the epson et-18100 printer would work with my little a4 printer. I'm guessing there's a firmware/print head incompatibility issue. I would love to try it, but at the same time, I'm too scared to have a go.
They won't cause any harm, but won't give good results.
They are two different printers in terms of inks and how they print. Profiles are to get the best from a printer/paper/ink combination. Change the paper a bit - you might get an OK print. Change the printer and unless the new one is just a different size version it's likely to be useless.
What's similar? Epson P700 and P900 or ET8550 and ET8500 - profiles interchangeable
The et18100 is like nothing else in this respect...
Cheers, Keith, it was only the fact they both have the same six inks that made me curious. It may be an excuse for Santa to drop off an 18100 to complement my 900.
Hello Mr. Cooper, I am having trouble with a paper type. Although I have the ICC for Hahnemühle's Bright White Photo Rag a quite strange thing happens? When printing black it starts of well but the tone turns to dark grey after about 10cm? I have cleaned the printer heads and tried other papers and black works fine. If I use the Bright White Photo Rag again the same thing happens, what do you think is happening here? ( ink levels are not the problem )
What printer?
@@KeithCooper Canon Pro 4100
Sounds like an ink channel flow issue - is it the same black being used on the other papers?
@@KeithCooper Mmmm that's an interesting question? All I know is if I then print the same file that is predominately black (but a colour image) on another paper there is no problem whatsoever.
But what media setting? - That defines which black is used
i have a recuring issue when printing. its that theres a colour tinge on the prints thats not there when i edit it. i have that correct icc profile, good FS paper and i have calibrated my monitor. after trawling the internet for clues the only thing that might explain it is the conversion from RGB to CMYK on this subject if its true i am clueless. could this be the issue?
For normal printing you should never need to convert to CMYK - Unless you are working in commercial print and design, there is virtually never any good reason to use CMYK at all
i dont convert thats just what i read on forums. i was just trying to figure out why i had this odd colour tinge. the print looks like i'm viewing it through slightly coloured glass so to speak
@@KeithCooper
OK - print a known good test image to see where the issue is [see the video notes for my test files]
i downloaded your test image. that was my next thing to do.
@@KeithCooper
i did a test print and theres a green tint over it. slight but there. i give up