Just randomly discovered this channel and video, and I just wanted to say two things. First, I'm really enjoying your work, and compliment both your style and analysis. And two, I was inordinately amused by the fact that I listened to you explain all this while actually playing Dark Souls 2 for the very reasons you explained in the video. Glad to see that more than one person enjoys these games the same way I do.
For me, replayability always came from wanting to relive my favourite story or characters moments from a game's narrative. I would joyfully replay the Metal Gear games just to hear all of the mad dialogue again. Excellent video as well. Even though there's been a million videos made about Dark Souls, you've managed to say something new and unique - amazing job, man!
I would agree, I think good characters are probably the number one thing that will bring me back to a game, or a movie or TV show for that matter. That's probably the thing that has changed the most about my taste as I've grown up. When I was younger I used to be so focused on the actual plot of a story, and now, so long as I like the characters, I honestly don't really care what it is they're doing.
It's always fascinating to go back to older TV shows or games and see that you relate to the characters differently or just not at all anymore. I find myself relating to the parents more than the kids in a lot of shows that I loved growing up. Time gives a fresh perspective of everything, I guess.
This was a fascinating perspective that I'm sure a lot of people share. However, I am among those people who keep replaying these games over and over. For me, much of the discovery and exploration in Dark Souks is in the combat. Trying new weapons, trying new weapon types, testing all the weapons within a specific weapon type, tracking down spells, using spells, and gauging how useful I find a spell considering the limited uses. Etc. Etc. But I don't know how common it is to literally start over as much as I do. With multiple New Game +'s, I get the feeling a lot of players explore the combat while playing the increasingly difficult versions of the game. I could neverget behind putting artificial limits on myself, but when you brought it up it made me ralize a lot of that is baked into the game already. Because the amount of souls needed for each subsequent level seems to increase exponentially, the amont of souls you have to carry around while STILL not being able to bank them for just a single stat increase, helps maintain a consistent level of tension throughout.
this was an essay on a personal journey with a philosophical reevaluation all rolled into one nice video. idk how else to say this, but your video was certainly an experience I enjoyed
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. It was certainly a little more meandering than I normally would've liked, but I couldn't see it coming together any other way. Glad the more personal style got you through to the end.
Finally got to watching this video, and it was good! I very agree about drak souls being replayable via the experiances of others - I watched more Let's Plays of the souls games than any other series of games.
Totally agree! I think this helped me realize that I actually enjoy watching Let's Plays of games I've already played much more than games I haven't seen before.
You have no idea how worried I was that I wasn't going to be able to pronounce that smoothly, and I ended up nailing it on the first try. I've never been prouder.
I still replay Dark Souls from time to time, but always with constraits, such as chugging all my estus immediately upon standing up from a bonfire, or deleting my character immediately upon death, or not leveling up, or playing without melee weapons at all. I can still push the requred mastery just a little further, even if the exploration is gone.
You have a lot more retention than I do if you found Dark Souls "tactile" after years of not playing it. I played the remaster after only a year and a half of first playing the game and I still died constantly. Dark Souls 2 and 3 are tactile to me, but that's because I've beaten them nearly a dozen times, and usually in short periods of one another. But yeah, I think you're right. The first playthrough of these games, especially the first playthrough of your first souls game, is probably going to be the most enjoyable one because so much of the enjoyment of the game involves learning the opaque systems. Once you learn them, there's going to be a drop off point because you'll have already "seen the elephant". The game starts to seem more mechanical. But like you said, the stories stick with you and become renewable through the experiences of other people.
I think it also varies from souls game to souls game. It was my first, but I would also say the first Dark Souls is the one that instantly jived with me the most. If I went back to replay Dark Souls 2 for instance, I'd imagine I would have had much more trouble, as the controls never felt as natural for me in that installment.
Great video. Can't quite relate to Dark Souls or your mechanical experiences in general (perks of being shit at games: the challenge never wears down lol), but that bit about replayability of the memories... oof, yes. There's a few games that I have some great memories of from my first playthrough, and I've been contemplating replaying. But I also remember them having some very glaring issues, so I'm a bit concerned that if I replay them those issues will be even more annoying as they're maybe not masked by the novelty of plot twists and other surprises as much. Maybe I should just stick to memories and conversations with other people.
I've definitely felt that before, but in most cases, I'm usually pretty pro-replaying games. Usually I only choose to leave things as a happy memory if I feel like there is content in there that just hasn't aged well such as jokes that I find in poor taste now, or the tone and perspective is just too mean-spirited (in other words, there's a lot of stuff from my teenage years I'm more than willing to leave in the past). But if your main concern is just that the controls or the game design doesn't hold up anymore, I tend to say it's worth the risk. I replayed the earlier Kingdom Hearts games a few years ago, and those do not hold up well at all anymore when compared to modern games. There are tons of frustrating parts throughout especially the first game, but it wasn't as bad to me because I had already played it before. Basically, I knew what I was getting myself into, so I was mentally prepared for it. Plus,, I think we sometimes underestimate the resilience of our memories and the effects they have on us. Even if we replay a game, and we don't enjoy it anymore, that doesn't wipe those memories away. They're still there as a snapshot from a different time, and I think that still has value. Not to mention, while there's always the chance that you don't enjoy something as much as you remembered, there's an equal chance you might find something new to appreciate as well. This somehow turned into a quasi-motivational speech at the end here, but yeah, I would say if you feel compelled to replay something, it's worth following that instinct.
Yeah, controls and stuff having aged definitely seems like less of an issue that wouldn't tarnish the whole experience. Maybe get a bit annoying, but it's not my main focus anyway, so eh. The things I'm more concerned about more narrative things that already bugged me on my first playthrough not too long ago. Like say, a suuper annoying character that gets a lot of screen time. And without wanting to talk to them at least to get some new information, the second play through they'd be just annoying without having anything to add. So while I don't think it'd completely ruin the first experience I had, it might make the annoying aspects of it more prominent in my memory? If that makes sense?
I can see that, I guess it really comes down to what you want out of the experience/what you're in the mood for at the time. Personally, I look at replaying/rewatching stuff as an opportunity to examine what I liked about that thing in the past and try and parse out why that same thing is or isn't resonating with me that same way today. But that might be too much mental investment if all you're really looking for is a relaxing time. So I can understand why someone would rather just go with the safe option and revisit something they know they still love, or try out something new that they haven't experienced at all yet. After all, there are only so many hours in a day.
Mhmm, good point, a shift in perspective can definitely make a difference. Maybe possible even take that analytical approach to the less enjoyable segments as well, and make them... well fun in a different way I guess. I'll probably eventually start another playthrough of one or the other flawed masterpiece, I'll keep your ideas in mind for that, thank you :)
Today, I completed the third DS game having now played through DS1-3 and BB. I've considered playing through them all again but utilising a different build and maybe looking to complete more of the NPC quests. However, I'm either going to need a couple of days / weeks break before I do this, or I just won't end up doing it. I enjoyed the games, however, the thought of replaying them fills me with no joy and I'm really not sure playing a different build will help me relive any of the great moments of any of the games.
I've been thinking about picking up Dark Souls 1 since it released on Switch. I'm completely new to the series and given that I already own a lot of games and that many people hold up DS1 as the jewel of the series, I figure that'll be the only one that I ever play. And I'm fine with that because my understanding is that it's a very replayable game. This video seems to contradict that idea, which is a bit disheartening. But it overlooks one of the elements of replay that I find very appealing in games like these - character building. While I'm sure the rhythm and mastery of melee combat becomes easy to manage after a while, I'm looking forward to following my first blade-and-shield playthrough as, say, a mage, or an archer, or an archer-spearman, or a tankmage. Or maybe I'll find some weapons or abilities during the first couple of playthroughs that will inspire something completely unique in the third. Whatever build I think I can pull off. It's the same reason I can still enjoy vanilla Skyrim 8 years after its release. It gives me the option to try something new, so that while each journey may be similar to the last, the execution will vary greatly.
I would still suggest giving it a try. Obviously this video is written from my own personal perspective, and I've never been as interested in playing with different playstyles. I'm always much more attracted to finding the one weapon set I really like and then getting really good with it, and the aspect of the game that always pushed me forward was the chance to see what was around the next corner, obviously something that isn't really repeatable. But there are so many people that love replaying these games over and over and trying out new things each time. So even though that isn't something that appeals to me, doesn't mean you may not enjoy it. Even still, as I put in the video, the first playthrough of the game was more than worth it, even if the rest of my playthroughs will never quite live up to it.
I have the same opinion as you. The remaster is also my first Souls game, and I got it for the Switch as well. I am still playing it as of the time of this writing. The multiplayer mechanics of DS is also quite interesting for me (like seeing ghosts in realtime and hearing the bells of awakening being rung by players in realtime). Sometimes I just leave my summon sign on boss areas and wait a bit to get summoned. It really gets more interesting once there are invaders as that's something that you cannot predict and cannot recreate. I am a big Monster Hunter fan so I can play games without stories, especially games with multiplayer aspects like this wherein if playing with friends, how the boss fight or an invader fight turns out is the story in itself that we can keep talking about in the years to come. I started playing MH since the PSP days, and when I see some of my friends, we still kind of remember some of our boss fight encounters and the blunders that we did even if those are like close to 15 years ago.
Your final statements sum it up nicely. We'll never get back that feeling of our first Souls playthough. But that is precisely why it is so important. It was so profoundly impactful that it would just be impossible to replicate it on additional playthroughs. And that's what makes us love it so much. We keep going back, to experience it in new and different ways, endlessly chasing that elusive high we got on our first playthroughs. Challenge Runs, Speedruns, new builds, PvP, etc. We go back and do all this crazy stuff to try and spark the, ahem, First Flame, all over again. The game is designed in such a way that we'll never have those First Time highs again, but the highs we get from achieving other goals can be just as good. Personally, I turned to invasions. Invading other players leads to entirely unique and new experiences each time, and (in the case of DS3) a difficult challenge to overcome when fighting multiple opponents. Overcoming a brutal gank squad gets that adrenaline pumping in a similar way to beating a boss for the first time. Not only is overcoming the challenge rewarding, but you also get to interact with other players, and often show new players what "Dark Souls is all about." The thrill of risking it all and fighting to the death, learning to overcome obstacles, and inevitably coming to terms with the fact that you *will* die, over and over. Freeing yourself from that fear. That's why I have 850+ hours in DS3, as well as hundreds of hours in the other games. Because Dark Souls at it's core teaches us about patience and determination in the face of seemingly unconquerable challenges, and we truly took those lessons to heart. Just like fleeting embers at the world's end, we chase those feelings of our very first playthough. And, oddly enough, it's that exact inability to truly reach it again that keeps us coming back for more.
I definitely find it interesting how the Souls games are able to inspire that kind of passion with players. Experimenting with other playstyles has never really given me enough of that buzz to stick with it for very long. but there are so many other stories of people like yourself pouring thousands of hours into these games. That in itself is not necessarily unique to this series, but what does feel different about it is that a lot of players aren't just doing the exact same thing over and over. That says a lot for the flexibility of this series and its systems. Thanks for watching.
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Just randomly discovered this channel and video, and I just wanted to say two things. First, I'm really enjoying your work, and compliment both your style and analysis. And two, I was inordinately amused by the fact that I listened to you explain all this while actually playing Dark Souls 2 for the very reasons you explained in the video. Glad to see that more than one person enjoys these games the same way I do.
For me, replayability always came from wanting to relive my favourite story or characters moments from a game's narrative. I would joyfully replay the Metal Gear games just to hear all of the mad dialogue again.
Excellent video as well. Even though there's been a million videos made about Dark Souls, you've managed to say something new and unique - amazing job, man!
I would agree, I think good characters are probably the number one thing that will bring me back to a game, or a movie or TV show for that matter. That's probably the thing that has changed the most about my taste as I've grown up. When I was younger I used to be so focused on the actual plot of a story, and now, so long as I like the characters, I honestly don't really care what it is they're doing.
It's always fascinating to go back to older TV shows or games and see that you relate to the characters differently or just not at all anymore. I find myself relating to the parents more than the kids in a lot of shows that I loved growing up. Time gives a fresh perspective of everything, I guess.
This was a fascinating perspective that I'm sure a lot of people share.
However, I am among those people who keep replaying these games over and over. For me, much of the discovery and exploration in Dark Souks is in the combat. Trying new weapons, trying new weapon types, testing all the weapons within a specific weapon type, tracking down spells, using spells, and gauging how useful I find a spell considering the limited uses. Etc. Etc.
But I don't know how common it is to literally start over as much as I do. With multiple New Game +'s, I get the feeling a lot of players explore the combat while playing the increasingly difficult versions of the game.
I could neverget behind putting artificial limits on myself, but when you brought it up it made me ralize a lot of that is baked into the game already. Because the amount of souls needed for each subsequent level seems to increase exponentially, the amont of souls you have to carry around while STILL not being able to bank them for just a single stat increase, helps maintain a consistent level of tension throughout.
this was an essay on a personal journey with a philosophical reevaluation all rolled into one nice video. idk how else to say this, but your video was certainly an experience I enjoyed
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. It was certainly a little more meandering than I normally would've liked, but I couldn't see it coming together any other way. Glad the more personal style got you through to the end.
Finally got to watching this video, and it was good! I very agree about drak souls being replayable via the experiances of others - I watched more Let's Plays of the souls games than any other series of games.
Totally agree! I think this helped me realize that I actually enjoy watching Let's Plays of games I've already played much more than games I haven't seen before.
It's like rereading a novel that *actually changes* when you reread it!
Remember when you talked about empathy? This game wasn't made for physical or metaphorical grandmas.
"Precipitously"
Noice
You have no idea how worried I was that I wasn't going to be able to pronounce that smoothly, and I ended up nailing it on the first try. I've never been prouder.
I still replay Dark Souls from time to time, but always with constraits, such as chugging all my estus immediately upon standing up from a bonfire, or deleting my character immediately upon death, or not leveling up, or playing without melee weapons at all. I can still push the requred mastery just a little further, even if the exploration is gone.
You have a lot more retention than I do if you found Dark Souls "tactile" after years of not playing it. I played the remaster after only a year and a half of first playing the game and I still died constantly. Dark Souls 2 and 3 are tactile to me, but that's because I've beaten them nearly a dozen times, and usually in short periods of one another.
But yeah, I think you're right. The first playthrough of these games, especially the first playthrough of your first souls game, is probably going to be the most enjoyable one because so much of the enjoyment of the game involves learning the opaque systems. Once you learn them, there's going to be a drop off point because you'll have already "seen the elephant". The game starts to seem more mechanical. But like you said, the stories stick with you and become renewable through the experiences of other people.
I think it also varies from souls game to souls game. It was my first, but I would also say the first Dark Souls is the one that instantly jived with me the most. If I went back to replay Dark Souls 2 for instance, I'd imagine I would have had much more trouble, as the controls never felt as natural for me in that installment.
Great video. Can't quite relate to Dark Souls or your mechanical experiences in general (perks of being shit at games: the challenge never wears down lol), but that bit about replayability of the memories... oof, yes.
There's a few games that I have some great memories of from my first playthrough, and I've been contemplating replaying. But I also remember them having some very glaring issues, so I'm a bit concerned that if I replay them those issues will be even more annoying as they're maybe not masked by the novelty of plot twists and other surprises as much. Maybe I should just stick to memories and conversations with other people.
I've definitely felt that before, but in most cases, I'm usually pretty pro-replaying games. Usually I only choose to leave things as a happy memory if I feel like there is content in there that just hasn't aged well such as jokes that I find in poor taste now, or the tone and perspective is just too mean-spirited (in other words, there's a lot of stuff from my teenage years I'm more than willing to leave in the past). But if your main concern is just that the controls or the game design doesn't hold up anymore, I tend to say it's worth the risk.
I replayed the earlier Kingdom Hearts games a few years ago, and those do not hold up well at all anymore when compared to modern games. There are tons of frustrating parts throughout especially the first game, but it wasn't as bad to me because I had already played it before. Basically, I knew what I was getting myself into, so I was mentally prepared for it. Plus,, I think we sometimes underestimate the resilience of our memories and the effects they have on us.
Even if we replay a game, and we don't enjoy it anymore, that doesn't wipe those memories away. They're still there as a snapshot from a different time, and I think that still has value. Not to mention, while there's always the chance that you don't enjoy something as much as you remembered, there's an equal chance you might find something new to appreciate as well. This somehow turned into a quasi-motivational speech at the end here, but yeah, I would say if you feel compelled to replay something, it's worth following that instinct.
Yeah, controls and stuff having aged definitely seems like less of an issue that wouldn't tarnish the whole experience. Maybe get a bit annoying, but it's not my main focus anyway, so eh.
The things I'm more concerned about more narrative things that already bugged me on my first playthrough not too long ago. Like say, a suuper annoying character that gets a lot of screen time. And without wanting to talk to them at least to get some new information, the second play through they'd be just annoying without having anything to add.
So while I don't think it'd completely ruin the first experience I had, it might make the annoying aspects of it more prominent in my memory? If that makes sense?
I can see that, I guess it really comes down to what you want out of the experience/what you're in the mood for at the time. Personally, I look at replaying/rewatching stuff as an opportunity to examine what I liked about that thing in the past and try and parse out why that same thing is or isn't resonating with me that same way today. But that might be too much mental investment if all you're really looking for is a relaxing time. So I can understand why someone would rather just go with the safe option and revisit something they know they still love, or try out something new that they haven't experienced at all yet. After all, there are only so many hours in a day.
Mhmm, good point, a shift in perspective can definitely make a difference. Maybe possible even take that analytical approach to the less enjoyable segments as well, and make them... well fun in a different way I guess.
I'll probably eventually start another playthrough of one or the other flawed masterpiece, I'll keep your ideas in mind for that, thank you :)
Today, I completed the third DS game having now played through DS1-3 and BB. I've considered playing through them all again but utilising a different build and maybe looking to complete more of the NPC quests. However, I'm either going to need a couple of days / weeks break before I do this, or I just won't end up doing it. I enjoyed the games, however, the thought of replaying them fills me with no joy and I'm really not sure playing a different build will help me relive any of the great moments of any of the games.
I've been thinking about picking up Dark Souls 1 since it released on Switch. I'm completely new to the series and given that I already own a lot of games and that many people hold up DS1 as the jewel of the series, I figure that'll be the only one that I ever play. And I'm fine with that because my understanding is that it's a very replayable game.
This video seems to contradict that idea, which is a bit disheartening. But it overlooks one of the elements of replay that I find very appealing in games like these - character building.
While I'm sure the rhythm and mastery of melee combat becomes easy to manage after a while, I'm looking forward to following my first blade-and-shield playthrough as, say, a mage, or an archer, or an archer-spearman, or a tankmage. Or maybe I'll find some weapons or abilities during the first couple of playthroughs that will inspire something completely unique in the third. Whatever build I think I can pull off. It's the same reason I can still enjoy vanilla Skyrim 8 years after its release. It gives me the option to try something new, so that while each journey may be similar to the last, the execution will vary greatly.
I would still suggest giving it a try. Obviously this video is written from my own personal perspective, and I've never been as interested in playing with different playstyles. I'm always much more attracted to finding the one weapon set I really like and then getting really good with it, and the aspect of the game that always pushed me forward was the chance to see what was around the next corner, obviously something that isn't really repeatable.
But there are so many people that love replaying these games over and over and trying out new things each time. So even though that isn't something that appeals to me, doesn't mean you may not enjoy it. Even still, as I put in the video, the first playthrough of the game was more than worth it, even if the rest of my playthroughs will never quite live up to it.
I have the same opinion as you. The remaster is also my first Souls game, and I got it for the Switch as well. I am still playing it as of the time of this writing. The multiplayer mechanics of DS is also quite interesting for me (like seeing ghosts in realtime and hearing the bells of awakening being rung by players in realtime). Sometimes I just leave my summon sign on boss areas and wait a bit to get summoned. It really gets more interesting once there are invaders as that's something that you cannot predict and cannot recreate. I am a big Monster Hunter fan so I can play games without stories, especially games with multiplayer aspects like this wherein if playing with friends, how the boss fight or an invader fight turns out is the story in itself that we can keep talking about in the years to come. I started playing MH since the PSP days, and when I see some of my friends, we still kind of remember some of our boss fight encounters and the blunders that we did even if those are like close to 15 years ago.
It's your JOB description, not Basically your JOB description. Thanks for your video.
“ I started playing Ds in 2016…” 😂😂.. bro, you barely scratched the surface
That's why you impose new challenges when you replay a souls game like no level up run or no weapons naked run, no bonfire no death run etc.
Your final statements sum it up nicely. We'll never get back that feeling of our first Souls playthough. But that is precisely why it is so important. It was so profoundly impactful that it would just be impossible to replicate it on additional playthroughs.
And that's what makes us love it so much. We keep going back, to experience it in new and different ways, endlessly chasing that elusive high we got on our first playthroughs. Challenge Runs, Speedruns, new builds, PvP, etc. We go back and do all this crazy stuff to try and spark the, ahem, First Flame, all over again. The game is designed in such a way that we'll never have those First Time highs again, but the highs we get from achieving other goals can be just as good. Personally, I turned to invasions. Invading other players leads to entirely unique and new experiences each time, and (in the case of DS3) a difficult challenge to overcome when fighting multiple opponents. Overcoming a brutal gank squad gets that adrenaline pumping in a similar way to beating a boss for the first time. Not only is overcoming the challenge rewarding, but you also get to interact with other players, and often show new players what "Dark Souls is all about." The thrill of risking it all and fighting to the death, learning to overcome obstacles, and inevitably coming to terms with the fact that you *will* die, over and over. Freeing yourself from that fear.
That's why I have 850+ hours in DS3, as well as hundreds of hours in the other games. Because Dark Souls at it's core teaches us about patience and determination in the face of seemingly unconquerable challenges, and we truly took those lessons to heart. Just like fleeting embers at the world's end, we chase those feelings of our very first playthough. And, oddly enough, it's that exact inability to truly reach it again that keeps us coming back for more.
I definitely find it interesting how the Souls games are able to inspire that kind of passion with players. Experimenting with other playstyles has never really given me enough of that buzz to stick with it for very long. but there are so many other stories of people like yourself pouring thousands of hours into these games. That in itself is not necessarily unique to this series, but what does feel different about it is that a lot of players aren't just doing the exact same thing over and over. That says a lot for the flexibility of this series and its systems. Thanks for watching.
Very good video!
Well done vid.
Disagree completely.
High ng+ = high difficult